NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not sure if anyone here is really familiar with the Liam Ashley case, probably not, but anyway short story:

Parents send 17 year old son to jail for "borrowing" their car, boy being transported in Prison van, boy killled while in the prison van because other occupant thought he was a police informer by the way he was asking questions and all, parents make huge fuss, Corrections department inquest finds problems (per usual) and it is tried to be sorted out,

The one thing is, although this wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been anything wrong in the Corrections Department,

the parents are taking no responsibilty at all, they didn't have to have their son charged with car theft, and without that he wouldn't have died and hsi parents are making a massive fuss about it and it all seems rather stupid.

Some links:

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/935677
"Parents speak of pain" (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/934481)
"Society failed Ashley" (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/935211)
Corrections: Ashley's death preventable (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/924177)

All in all, parents plan backfires when son they got sent to prison dies there.

I wouldn't say his parents where responsible for there son being strangled he stole the car tough shit if bubba doesn’t take to him

Not that I think he should of gone to jail for such a thing in fact if I where his parents I would buy him his own car *is not after a car*

the boys parents bear no more blame for his death than does the person who gets killed by a drunk driver--after all if s/he had stayed home s/he never would have been killed.

the police know they are dealing with criminals. it is their responsibility to keep everyone safe whie they are in police custody whether its in the back of a van, in jail awaiting trial or in prison. those in custody have no way to defend themselves, it must all fall on the shoulders of the authorities.

the parents SHOULD make a massive fuss. its horrifying that a boy should be killed while in police custody.

Parents are morons. Simple. If it's obvious the son borrowed the car, even without permission, they should have revoked his privileges and brought him to the police station for a stern lecture, if nothing else.

the parents shouldn't have sent him to the police, but just said that he couldn't do such things, and maybe ground him or something, so they were wrong from the beginning.
Of course it's horrible for the parents, and maybe they should make a fuss, but it's also a bit their own fault.

Police should not be used to raise your bratty and spoiled rotten kids, that's your problems parent. 'nuff said.

Police should not be used to raise your bratty and spoiled rotten kids, that's your problems parent. 'nuff said.

well he did steal the car and odds are he was an arsehole who needed a good shaking up (though why he wasn’t dragged off to military school is beyond me)

well he did steal the car and odds are he was an arsehole who needed a good shaking up (though why he wasn’t dragged off to military school is beyond me)

The parents were the one that put the child in that van in the first place. If the parents didn't try to use the police as a "last resort" then maybe he would still be alive. Of course if you had to use the police as a "last resort" then I have to question your parenting skills.

well he did steal the car and odds are he was an arsehole who needed a good shaking up (though why he wasn’t dragged off to military school is beyond me)

The parents should have done this by themselves without using up the police force when it can be better used for other things. They should make a fuss but they should not have used the police funded by the peoples taxes because they are too lazy/stupid to raise their son.

The parents were the one that put the child in that van in the first place. If the parents didn't try to use the police as a "last resort" then maybe he would still be alive. Of course if you had to use the police as a "last resort" then I have to question your parenting skills.

1) you would think the police would try to keep a 15 year old boy away from a guy who would kill him

2) if I send a kid to summer camp and it gets eaten by bears would it be my fault for sending it?

3) maybe they where out of ideas what would you suggest?

the boys parents bear no more blame for his death than does the person who gets killed by a drunk driver

It would be the person's fault if they knowingly got in the car with the drunk driver and were killed in a crash. It is the parents' fault for being dicks.

2) if I send a kid to summer camp and it gets eaten by bears would it be my fault for sending it?
It would if you forced him to go camping out in bear infested woods.

The parents should have done this by themselves without using up the police force when it can be better used for other things.

like stopping joy riders and other dangers to the public? (great I now sound like MTAE)

They should make a fuss but they should not have used the police funded by the peoples taxes because they are too lazy/stupid to raise their son.

I'd love to see some suggestions

1) you would think the police would try to keep a 15 year old boy away from a guy who would kill him

2) if I send a kid to summer camp and it gets eaten by bears would it be my fault for sending it?

3) maybe they where out of ideas what would you suggest?


1.) Eh the kid was screwed the minute he first entered that bus, "Oz" wasn't just a glory prison film ya know.

2.) No, but you naturally assume that the camp is a safe place. Prisons are not a safe place by any stretch of the imagination.

3.) I would start with rules and disciplines at the very beginning. The fact that the parents had to drag the police into this mess to help straighten out their kids tells me that they failed as parents somewhere along the line.

1.) Eh the kid was screwed the minute he first entered that bus, "Oz" wasn't just a glory prison film ya know.

it takes allot to kill a 15 year old and it take a long time to strangle someone to death both of these could of been avoided

2.) No, but you naturally assume that the camp is a safe place. Prisons are not a safe place by any stretch of the imagination.

a place with: security officers everywhere, iron bars on the windows, CCTV, a roommate (who if you didn’t like you could change), a ban on firearms and knives

If you ask me he was safer than going out being a problem child especially in a place with guys missing there own kids (thus he will be raised in the ways on the industry folk!)

3.) I would start with rules and disciplines at the very beginning. The fact that the parents had to drag the police into this mess to help straighten out their kids tells me that they failed as parents somewhere along the line.

Or maybe there kid was a little shit who trained professionals couldn’t handle

it takes allot to kill a 15 year old and it take a long time to strangle someone to death both of these could of been avoided


Not really, snap a person's neck and he's dead.


a place with: security officers everywhere, iron bars on the windows, CCTV, a roommate (who if you didn’t like you could change), a ban on firearms and knives

If you ask me he was safer than going out being a problem child especially in a place with guys missing there own kids (thus he will be raised in the ways on the industry folk!)

and yet there's still continue to be riots, rapes, murder, and assault in prison.

Or maybe there kid was a little shit who trained professionals couldn’t handle

Little shits just don't happen overnight.

Wait, did the kid have license and was just borrowing his parents car or what?

Not really, snap a person's neck and he's dead.

too bad the kid was strangled though....

and yet there's still continue to be riots, rapes, murder, and assault in prison.

:confused:

Little shits just don't happen overnight.

oh excuse me how many kids have you raised that you changed from little shits to angels?

Wait, did the kid have license and was just borrowing his parents car or what?

a licence at 15!?

a licence at 15!?

Here you start at the age of 15...

*Is confused*

I thought he was 17....

It would be the person's fault if they knowingly got in the car with the drunk driver and were killed in a crash. It is the parents' fault for being dicks.


no its not. its only their "fault" if they had a reasonable expectation that their son might be killed in police custody.

if that is a reasonable expectation, you have a big problem.

I'm not sure if anyone here is really familiar with the Liam Ashley case, probably not, but anyway short story:

Parents send 17 year old son to jail for "borrowing" their car, boy being transported in Prison van, boy killled while in the prison van because other occupant thought he was a police informer by the way he was asking questions and all, parents make huge fuss, Corrections department inquest finds problems (per usual) and it is tried to be sorted out,

The one thing is, although this wouldn't have happened if there hadn't been anything wrong in the Corrections Department,

the parents are taking no responsibilty at all, they didn't have to have their son charged with car theft, and without that he wouldn't have died and hsi parents are making a massive fuss about it and it all seems rather stupid.

Some links:

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/935677
"Parents speak of pain" (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/934481)
"Society failed Ashley" (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/935211)
Corrections: Ashley's death preventable (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425824/924177)

All in all, parents plan backfires when son they got sent to prison dies there.



I am very familiar with Liam Ashley. He was my cousin.

no its not. its only their "fault" if they had a reasonable expectation that their son might be killed in police custody.

if that is a reasonable expectation, you have a big problem.

I agree. It was stupid of them to send him to jail, but it isn't the parents' fault the kid died. The blame rests with the police. There isn't the reasonable expectation that somebody will die when you send them to prison. The guards should be doing their jobs.

If some parents sent their kid, who was perfectly healthy and everything, to a rafting trip, and the instructor neglected to follow proper company procedure when explaining the safety precautions and the kid was killed, whose fault would it be? I'd place the blame on the instructor, because he didn't do his job. Those arguing it is the parents fault in the prison situation must place the blame on the parents if they are at all consistent in their thinking.

Anyone who blame his parents have no idea how much effort they went to to try to correct his behaviour. Liam was a nice enough kid, but he was trouble.

The story is far, far more complicated than anybody realises, and I'm not about to go yelling it out to all and sundry either. It is family business.

There was no reason to believe that would have happened. This course of action had been advocated by outside therapists.

But guess what? Nobody expected it, but somehow he managed to get strangled. His parents do feel exceedingly guilty about it, and blame themselves. What decent parent wouldn't? However to say his parents were 'dicks' is small minded and frankly unbelievably stupid.

no its not. its only their "fault" if they had a reasonable expectation that their son might be killed in police custody.

if that is a reasonable expectation, you have a big problem.

It is a reasonable expectation that they will be mixed in with hardened criminals and that the threat is not non-existent.

It is a reasonable expectation that they will be mixed in with hardened criminals and that the threat is not non-existent.

People do not die in custody in New Zealand. There is no reason why people should assume youth offenders would be moved in the same prison van as hardened gang affiliates.

It is a reasonable expectation that they will be mixed in with hardened criminals and that the threat is not non-existent.

Well, the threat of, say, getting eaten by a shark when you go surfing is not non-existant, but it's reasonably safe to surf. Are you suggesting if a family is vacationing in say, Hawaii, and the parents sign their kid up for surfing lessons, and he happens to get attacked by a shark, it is their fault?

Anyone who blame his parents have no idea how much effort they went to to try to correct his behaviour. Liam was a nice enough kid, but he was trouble.

The story is far, far more complicated than anybody realises, and I'm not about to go yelling it out to all and sundry either. It is family business.

There was no reason to believe that would have happened. This course of action had been advocated by outside therapists.

But guess what? Nobody expected it, but somehow he managed to get strangled. His parents do feel exceedingly guilty about it, and blame themselves. What decent parent wouldn't? However to say his parents were 'dicks' is small minded and frankly unbelievably stupid.

my condolences on the loss of your cousin

parents have to get used to dealing with the fear that our children will do something stupid and get hurt or killed. we have to deal with the vagaries of fate that might lead to our children being hurt or killed, from drunk drivers to faulty products. to suggest that a parent is at fault because they trusted the police follow procedure and keep their son away from more dangerous adult prisoners is stupid and cruel.

It is a reasonable expectation that they will be mixed in with hardened criminals and that the threat is not non-existent.

no its not. if you checked the links youll find that its not procedure to mix minors with adults especially not violent adults. they not only put the boy in the van with adults but handcuffed him to the man who killed him.

my condolences on the loss of your cousin

parents have to get used to dealing with the fear that our children will do something stupid and get hurt or killed. we have to deal with the vagaries of fate that might lead to our children being hurt or killed, from drunk drivers to faulty products. to suggest that a parent is at fault because they trusted the police follow procedure and keep their son away from more dangerous adult prisoners is stupid and cruel.

Thank you.

It can get really frustrating to see people passing judgement over others who they don't know and only know the very slightest of facts about.

Parents are morons. Simple. If it's obvious the son borrowed the car, even without permission, they should have revoked his privileges and brought him to the police station for a stern lecture, if nothing else.
This isn't just at you but...

He had a habit of stealing things from home.




---------------------------
His parents and siblings are Liberal degenerates, his parents pretty much tried the scared straight approach, it backfired.
One of them got a Bong tattoo in memorium.:rolleyes:

too bad the kid was strangled though....

Which takes five seconds to kill if you're good.

Which takes five seconds to kill if you're good.

The killer didn't wasn't 'good' in this case.


There is nothing 'degererate' about the household, they are wealthy middle class New Zealand. Sure someone may have got a tattoo, but what does that really tell you? Nothing. Liam was a child who was very greatly loved if something of a handful.

It is so easy to sit in your comfortable computer chair passing judgement, as if you know anything. As if you are an expert on psychology, as if you know better. You know nothing but what the media tells you. You know nothing.