NationStates Jolt Archive

Do I really even have to say it? (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823)
All Things Considered, December 14, 2006 · A fence-building company in Southern California agrees to pay nearly $5 million in fines for hiring illegal immigrants. Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.

After an immigration check in 1999 found undocumented workers on its payroll, Golden State promised to clean house. But when followup checks were made in 2004 and 2005, some of those same illegal workers were still on the job. In fact, U-S Attorney Carol Lam says as many as a third of the company's 750 workers may have been in the country illegally.

Golden State Fence built millions of dollars' worth of fencing around homes, offices, and military bases. Its president and one of its Southern California managers will pay fines totaling $300,000. The government is also recommending jail time for Melvin Kay and Michael McLaughlin, probably about six months.
The article goes on to say that it's unusual for firms to be charged criminally in this sort of thing, which is a part of the problem as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the jokes by late-night hosts when the wall was passed by Congress--that illegals would be hired to build it. Sometimes the jokes write themselves, I guess.

i want to just fill a post with "ahhhahahhaha" but i can't be bothered so: hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah.
lol.
that'll do.

Irony ftw

As I've pointed out a billion times, if there were no illegals in this country, who would do the actual work?

This was inevitable.

Did anyone expect this to not happen?

I hope the government makes an example out of this company. Maybe it would teach other companies that thumbing their noses at the laws of this country brings with it stiff penalties.

Once companies stop hiring illegals, we can address the immigration laws to allow people to more easily immigrate legally to the US.

Did anyone expect this to not happen?
I didn't think anything like this would be allowed to get out, no.

I didn't think anything like this would be allowed to get out, no.

I guess they were counting on the liberal media to do their usual stellar job of getting the story out.

Once again, I am proud to be an American!

Beh.

Just underlines how damn stupid the fence is to begin with... I swear, if the media hadn't made such a big deal about it, nobody would care, and rightfully so.

Definitely didn't see that one coming. :rolleyes:

As I've pointed out a billion times, if there were no illegals in this country, who would do the actual work?

This was inevitable.



Let me see....Um..Could it be...Um...American Citizens?:rolleyes: Americans will do any job for a fair wage, the problem those companies have is not that we won't do the work, its that they don't want to pay us a fair wage to do it.

$7 an hour for a legal citizen
$7 a week for an illegal and you don't have to pay any health benefits


YOU do the math!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Beh.

Just underlines how damn stupid the fence is to begin with... I swear, if the media hadn't made such a big deal about it, nobody would care, and rightfully so.


People do care with or without the media. But your name speaks for itself.:rolleyes:

People do care with or without the media. But your name speaks for itself.:rolleyes:Obviously. All those damned Spanish people going across the Atlantic to try and take your jobs!

Obviously. All those damned Spanish people going across the Atlantic to try and take your jobs!



Think before you speak junior. Hispan...Hispanic? Jeez...People from central and south america are classified as Hispanic....Good lord, you have brain, you might wanna use it every now and then.:rolleyes: It was a play on his name.

All I have to say is perfectly summed up with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM

That is all.

P.S.-I knew I'd have a reason to use this vid eventually.

Think before you speak junior. Hispan...Hispanic? Jeez...People from central and south america are classified as Hispanic....Good lord, you have brain, you might wanna use it every now and then.:rolleyes: It was a play on his name.
Wasn't a very good one:)

Beh.

Just underlines how damn stupid the fence is to begin with... I swear, if the media hadn't made such a big deal about it, nobody would care, and rightfully so.

There was a piece in the NY Times a couple of months ago, I believe, that pointed out how the majority of people in the US illegally come in legally and overstay their visas. The fence--assuming it even gets built, which is unlikely, given the way the bill was worded--doesn't stop any of that. It's one of the more expensive farces foisted upon the US taxpayer.

I think it should be fine to use illegal immigrants to work as long as they aren't paid and are forced to work.

I think it should be fine to use illegal immigrants to work as long as they aren't paid and are forced to work.Sarcasm, right?

I think it should be fine to use illegal immigrants to work as long as they aren't paid and are forced to work.

Sense when did slavery become ok?

As I've pointed out a billion times, if there were no illegals in this country, who would do the actual work?

This was inevitable.

I don't know. Maybe unemployed US citizens?

I don't know. Maybe unemployed US citizens?

It would be nice.

I don't know. Maybe unemployed US citizens?

They took our jerbs.

Srsly. I don't see the average american making my deli sandwich, or mowing my lawn. At least not without an inordinate amount of whining and doing a crappy job, at any rate.

Besides which, the best way to deal with this is not building a fence, but enforcing uniform labor standards, regardless of the immigration status of the employee. That would prevent coercion of illegals, and take away some of the alleged economic incentive for hiring them*. Not silly walls and immigration 'crackdowns' (which are all bullshit anyway).

*I don't believe the illegals are cheaper argument all that much anyway. Everyone I know in the restaurant industry tells me hiring mexicans is mostly about their work ethic. Even chinese restaurants hire them.

I don't know. Maybe unemployed US citizens?

Sure. But they'd want a "fair" wage, which from what I'm told by teenage Marxists, is actually impossible. It's never fair enough. Because those evil capitalist executives always get more. Wah.

They took our jerbs.

Srsly. I don't see the average american making my deli sandwich, or mowing my lawn. At least not without an inordinate amount of whining and doing a crappy job, at any rate.

Besides which, the best way to deal with this is not building a fence, but enforcing uniform labor standards, regardless of the immigration status of the employee. That would prevent coercion of illegals, and take away some of the alleged economic incentive for hiring them*. Not silly walls and immigration 'crackdowns' (which are all bullshit anyway).

*I don't believe the illegals are cheaper argument all that much anyway. Everyone I know in the restaurant industry tells me hiring mexicans is mostly about their work ethic. Even chinese restaurants hire them.
Ever watch the TV show "Dirty Jobs"? There are Americans who's jobs involve handling feces, rooting through stinking mud to gather flesh eating worms, and all sorts of other backbreaking, dirty and and hazardous work. The thing is though that they have to be paid a fair wage. Illegal aliens aren't doing us any favors by taking shitty jobs here. They're only lowering the wages for everyone and exposing themselves to exploitation and abuse.

The solution is fines and prison time for hiring illegals and a better system for letting people in here legally as citizens.

Sure. But they'd want a "fair" wage, which from what I'm told by teenage Marxists, is actually impossible. It's never fair enough. Because those evil capitalist executives always get more. Wah.

Yeah, well fuck a marxist. If you cut the labor supply by eliminating the hiring of illegals wages will have to go up as companies bid on the existing workforce.

All I have to say is perfectly summed up with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM

That is all.

P.S.-I knew I'd have a reason to use this vid eventually.

We shall call them crackers! :D

Yeah, well fuck a marxist. If you cut the labor supply by eliminating the hiring of illegals wages will have to go up as companies bid on the existing workforce.

Make them "legals" instead of "illegals."

Course, then the labor supply won't change and wages will be right where they are: fair.

*I don't believe the illegals are cheaper argument all that much anyway. Everyone I know in the restaurant industry tells me hiring mexicans is mostly about their work ethic. Even chinese restaurants hire them.

That's really not surprising. A lot of the Americans who want those sorts of jobs in restaurants are teenagers and young adults who feel a certain sense of entitlement, more specifically that they should get paid a good wage for minimal work.

Of course, restaurant jobs often pay minimal wage for good work, so we get a rather large disjunct between their expectations and the reality. Whereas illegal immigrants are often expecting minimal pay for good work, and the pay is better than what they would get in their home country, so their expectations are being met and even exceeded. So why wouldn't they work harder?

The solution is fines and prison time for hiring illegals and a better system for letting people in here legally as citizens.
Agreed--and doing a better job of tracking people who come here legally and overstay their visas, as that's how a significant portion of the illegal population gets here in the first place.

I don't know. Maybe unemployed US citizens?They charge too much and American consumers aren't willing to pay for it.

Make them "legals" instead of "illegals."

Course, then the labor supply won't change and wages will be right where they are: fair.
Bullshit. Wages will go up because those newly legal workers will have their wages go up to at least the minimum wage and won't be afraid to make complaints about mistreatment to OSHA and others.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm, Irony.

Bullshit. Wages will go up because those newly legal workers will have their wages go up to at least the minimum wage and won't be afraid to make complaints about mistreatment to OSHA and others.

The only wages that will go up are those that were [literally] criminal to begin with. That isn't even applicable to all illegal immigrants - scuse me, "illegals" - let alone the entire market as DCD is implying.

The only wages that will go up are those that were [literally] criminal to begin with. That isn't even applicable to all illegal immigrants - scuse me, "illegals" - let alone the entire market as DCD is implying.

Not necessarily--bringing those wages up will cause pressure on the wages that are currently at the bottom to go up as well. Plus, if you give people at that income level a raise--in this case, even to minimum wage--they put that money back into the local economy, which pushes growth area-wide.

I have another theory as to why there's such opposition to real immigration reform. Lots of these illegal immigrants are from places with a strong tradition of labor organization--unions. If they have actual rights as citizens or resident aliens, it's harder to keep them cowed and out of unions.

It's kinda ironic the firm hired illegals to build the wall... But the real irony lies in illegals actually building it. Bloody Quislings! Depends on which side of the thing you are watching it, I guess.

Think before you speak junior. Hispan...Hispanic? Jeez...People from central and south america are classified as Hispanic....Good lord, you have brain, you might wanna use it every now and then.:rolleyes: It was a play on his name.

Do you honestly not know what Hispanola is?

Do you honestly not know what Hispanola is?

Think about who you're talking to. ;)

The height of irony! Just shows how hard working, cheap, and effcient illegal workers are compared to the legal ones.

Ever watch the TV show "Dirty Jobs"? There are Americans who's jobs involve handling feces, rooting through stinking mud to gather flesh eating worms, and all sorts of other backbreaking, dirty and and hazardous work. The thing is though that they have to be paid a fair wage. Illegal aliens aren't doing us any favors by taking shitty jobs here. They're only lowering the wages for everyone and exposing themselves to exploitation and abuse.

The solution is fines and prison time for hiring illegals and a better system for letting people in here legally as citizens.

Which is why I said common labor standards should be enforced without regard to immigration status. Let the chips fall where they may.

I just can't countenance stip mining devolping countries for their intellectual capital, and then turning round and telling everyone else to fuck off. (Unless, of course they are the proven malcontents, in which case they get asylum).

In any event, many of those 'dirty jobs', i.e., combined sewer inspector require credentials. Like a 40 hr OSHA confined space entry certificate and some engineering experience. They have nothing to do with making sandwiches, picking fruit or making sandwiches which are the bulk of the jobs that mexicans do anyway.

Unless and until the US starts to actually train enough of its own professionals once again there should be no complaints about immigration, legal or illegal.

All I have to say is perfectly summed up with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM

That is all.

P.S.-I knew I'd have a reason to use this vid eventually.

Funny how that video didn't show the natives being raped, masacred, and herded like cattle to reservations... Instead, it was a typical fluffy propaganda happy ending...

Regardless of what anyone says... Breaking the law is breaking the law... If you are in the US illegally, you are breaking the law and should suffer the consequences, not be rewarded.

'nuff said

Not necessarily--bringing those wages up will cause pressure on the wages that are currently at the bottom to go up as well. Plus, if you give people at that income level a raise--in this case, even to minimum wage--they put that money back into the local economy, which pushes growth area-wide.


Except the money for wages comes from businesses anyway. The net economy remains the same.
So all you've got is the "I should get more money than them thar messicans!" type of 'pressure' you're counting on to fulfill your glorious commie utopia, and that's not enough!


I have another theory as to why there's such opposition to real immigration reform. Lots of these illegal immigrants are from places with a strong tradition of labor organization--unions. If they have actual rights as citizens or resident aliens, it's harder to keep them cowed and out of unions.

Ah, yes. Evil corporations are to blame.

Couldn't be just plain old xenophobia or mindless sense of law=right of the voters, despite the fact that not one of the "I don't have a problem with legal immigrants!" bullhorns here are Corporate America.