NationStates Jolt Archive

From arstechnica.com –

Players and creators of video games could face imprisonment for acts of virtual violence under draft legislation being drawn up by two of Germany’s state governments.

Politicians in Bavaria and Lower Saxony have proposed a new offence that will punish “cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters” inside games. Early drafts suggest that infringers should face fines or up to 12 months’ jail for promoting or enacting in-game violence.

The scheme comes in response to a shooting last month in the town of Emsdetten on the Dutch border, where Sebastian Bosse, an 18-year-old games fan, stormed into his former school and wounded 37 people before killing himself.-

Was told this wasn't relevant to the CGI child porn ban fourm so I thought I would start its own.Anyway this seems be over reacting a bit to an isolated incident.Thoughts??

If Prohibition and The Satanic Verses ought to teach anything, it's that making something controversial or outright illegal is only going to give it more publicity and desirability.

So, had this boy who stormed the school, never played a game, never watched tv, never been inundated with pop culture...they would have credited the lack of all that as the motive for his shooting.

Next they'll be banning paintball. And 'dunk the teacher'. And tag.

Germany, bastion of freedom of expression.

Fascist bastards, they're a good 20 years from repeating history.

So, had this boy who stormed the school, never played a game, never watched tv, never been inundated with pop culture...they would have credited the lack of all that as the motive for his shooting.

Next they'll be banning paintball. And 'dunk the teacher'. And tag.

Its a bit of an extreem example of being a 'nanny state'.

I hate it when these bans are proposed.

#1: I'm not at all convinced that violence in video games/ music/ movies has anything at all to do with violence in real life.

#2: The parents of the child should be a little more pro- active in raising their children. Don't punish responsible adults.

I hate it when these bans are proposed.

#1: I'm not at all convinced that violence in video games/ music/ movies has anything at all to do with violence in real life.

#2: The parents of the child should be a little more pro- active in raising their children. Don't punish responsible adults.
And stick to the voulantary rating system.Its there for a reason.I have been in games stores and wached adults buy games for their brats that are classified over eighteen despite the fact that most of the major stores have a policy of informing them that they may not be sutible for said brats.:rolleyes:

Hey Snatfuri...in regards to #2, something was on the news the other day that I found interesting.

So this mom was upset that there was going to be partial nudity at a Guns N' Roses show that her son was going to see. The nudity was in the pre-act, thank god, no one needs to see Axel Rose nude. Anyway, so, she said she wasn't letting him go, and she made a bit of a stink because when she bought the tickets, she had no idea that nudity would be involved.

So then, everyone and their dog called, wrote, and generally bitched about what a prude she was, what an idiot douchebag, etc for being so scared of a little bit of titty.

Then one person brought up your point, and applied it. Here was a mom, who was being proactive, and people were JUMPING DOWN HER THROAT for it. And the thing was, that was my first reaction too.

So are we sending mixed messages do you think?

Germany fails at democracy.

Hey Snatfuri...in regards to #2, something was on the news the other day that I found interesting.

So this mom was upset that there was going to be partial nudity at a Guns N' Roses show that her son was going to see. The nudity was in the pre-act, thank god, no one needs to see Axel Rose nude. Anyway, so, she said she wasn't letting him go, and she made a bit of a stink because when she bought the tickets, she had no idea that nudity would be involved.

So then, everyone and their dog called, wrote, and generally bitched about what a prude she was, what an idiot douchebag, etc for being so scared of a little bit of titty.

Then one person brought up your point, and applied it. Here was a mom, who was being proactive, and people were JUMPING DOWN HER THROAT for it. And the thing was, that was my first reaction too.

So are we sending mixed messages do you think?

That is unfortunate that happened to that poor woman. She had every right to do what she did. If there was going to be nudity in the pre-show (or during for that matter) it should have been disclosed when purchasing tickets. Ticketmaster or whoever dropped the ball on that if they didn't forewarn its customers.

So, had this boy who stormed the school, never played a game, never watched tv, never been inundated with pop culture...they would have credited the lack of all that as the motive for his shooting.

Next they'll be banning paintball. And 'dunk the teacher'. And tag.

actually some schools have already banned tag.

The Germans should know better than taking the road to extremist laws.

I maintain the persons (children or otherwise) capable of committing acts such as getting hold of a gun and opening fire in a crowded place were unstable to begin with.

Not to mention just HOW did the kid get the gun? do the parents let him have the key so he can do target practice any time he likes?.

I would dearly love to know if he had any past history of violent behaviour or bouts of depression.

this is assuming it WAS a gun

I maintain the persons (children or otherwise) capable of committing acts such as getting hold of a gun and opening fire in a crowded place were unstable to begin with.

Not to mention just HOW did the kid get the gun? do the parents let him have the key so he can do target practice any time he likes?.

I would dearly love to know if he had any past history of violent behaviour or bouts of depression.

this is assuming it WAS a gun
I don't know about him but someone is fucked up for giving him his own site.

I already posted this days ago. Check the forum before you post.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=510672

Frankly I am appalled at the German government. My mother herself went to a german gymnasium and later became a teacher before leaving the country and marrying my father.
(I will refrain from using the shooters name to avoid giving them a personal emotional profile)
When debating it with her, she simply states its the system itself thats showing cracks. Since it is not the first time a school shooting such as this happens in Germany, and also the age difference between the shooters makes them not too comparable to their American counterparts.
In the German shootings, the recent one and the Erfurt one, both were either finished with highschool or almost finished. Also their main anger went to the teachers (the fundamental difference between the German and American school shootings, while both professed dislike to jocks, their main hate went to the teachers). The shooter at Erfurt singled out teachers for killing, as the death toll shows almost 15 teachers died and only 2 students (who were assumed to have been accidently shot while running into crossfire or being close to a teacher).
Also for all those that have an understanding in German, please read the suicide note of the recent shooter;

http://de.indymedia.org/2006/11/162651.shtml

As my mother always said, one of the most perverse things about the German school system which even she remembers was how the teachers just want you to fail. Of course there are some that are sincere but they are the sheer majority. The whole German education system is one of weeding and dividing. At 10 years old the children are segregated into 3 schools :

Gymnasium - The future upper class; doctors, scientists, phycists, etc.

Realschule - The middle class more or less, business clerks, shop owners, etc.

Hauptschule - The protelariat more or less, the future factory workers, janitors etc.


It is the teachers who decide who goes where. And it is very difficult to switch from one to the other, near impossible. And private schools are just a recent appearence in Germany.
Also you can only go to University with a Gymnasium abschluss (grade 13), or as a Realschule student you go through difficult classes etc.. to qualify later.

This relates, that even most old teachers still set in the old ways, still sabotage their students as often as possible. For example my Mother was called dumb, stupid, tolf that she would never achieve anything in life despite her being the 2nd best student of her class. She often stated she had suicide thoughts and depressions during her last Gymnasium year and her happiest time of her life was when it was finally over.

Now imagine you are a student, but you don't have a social circle to fall back on such as the recent shooter. He cracked, said f*** all, who are they to treat me in such a way. And slowly over the course of 2 years his slow burning hate towards his teachers finally bloomed with an event that is of yet not mentioned.

Now with the Erfurt shooter, there the problem was because he missed a few too many school days. His teachers as uncompromising and cruel as they were refused to give him any sort of ceritification or allow him to redo the year. He would be without any sort of diploma, his whole future ruined. This caused his obvious hate towards the teachers, and led to 15 of them paying their lives for their very questionable stance anyway.

As my mother says in the German education system it is not about educating or teaching the children knowledge, it is about "sink or swim." And some children just cannot handle that sort of cold, ironically efficient form of weeding the crops for the potentials and dumping aside the useless.

Especially the recent shooter, is the saddest of them all. He was very bright with a promising future, he programmed even you can see through his suicide note that he was highly intelligent. But in the end the system in its bureacratic overtones screwed him over.


Also now more on topic. What is very notable, the recent shooters website has been taken down within 24 hours of the deed. And all of his writings confiscated, and the blame immediatly scapegoated on violent computer games. Even though a blind fool after reading his suicide note can deduct the games were not the problem. However the German State does not wish to deal with problems as delicate as restructuring the whole education system. So I will expect we will have more of these incidents of teachers being slaughtered by the students they wronged.
It is exactly what the state fears as well, by taking down the website they wanted to prevent other "endangered" students from reading his last memoir and seeing the stark similarities and ending their lives in a similar fashion by storming their school armed to the teeth without the intention of leaving the building.

What I find curious, this is a new trend. In the old days, they would have just committed suicide. But nowadays, where the suiciders actually take the reasons for why they committed suicide into the grave with them it is such a big deal. When a 17 year old kid committed suicide because he was tormented by his teachers/peers it was no big news or matter. But if the 17 year old kid kills the teachers/peers before killing himself as he intended it is immediatly a large matter of importance. But both scenarios are essentially the same, with the difference being that one takes his tormenters with him the other just takes himself. I think both are a tragedy, and find it perverse that only when the suicider takes others with him that we have such debates.

Haha...I bet this was necessitated by that angry german kid.