NationStates Jolt Archive

I was mulling over an idea I had for making money more accessible to the blind, without having to reprint a lot of stuff, and still having the bills work (where necessary) in automated vending machines.

Due to the recent court decision that said that US bills are not accessible to the blind (they're all the same size), I thought that the European method of having different bill sizes can't be the only solution.

So...
All of these retain the original printing, and original bill dimensions.

Bills in circulation can be sent through a die cutter if necessary. New bills can be diecut to the following.

1 dollar bill = wavy shallow cutout with five bumps on the edge
5 dollar bill = wavy shallow cutout with four bumps
10 dollar = three bumps
20 dollar = two bumps
50 dollar = one bump
100 dollar = no alteration

The descending number of bumps is to eliminate the possibility that someone will cut bumps to increase the apparent value of a bill (to try to fool a blind person).

If the cuts are done towards the middle of the bill, the bill will retain sufficient dimension to work in automated vending machines with no problems.

We brits already have this sorted. All our coins are differnet shapes and sizes, and our notes are different sizes too.

Making them different sizes may not be the only solution, as you say, but surely it is the best.

Blind folks can't handle money? This is news. I've had blind friends that have run concessions and snack bars for years. When I heard this, I asked how often they had under-runs in the register. The answer was "not nearly as often as the sighted clerks". I guess most of us don't stiff the blind and they must count change better than the sighted.

My mom has MS, and there was one point when it looked like she might lose her eyesight as a result of the disease. Thankfully she did not, but our family started preparing for the worst when we learned there was a chance of it. I learned to read Braille and we all learned a lot about what we would need to do to help her if she lost her sight.

One thing I tried was putting on a pair of completely black glasses and trying to go about my normal life. Handling money was one of the biggest pains in the ass. I ended up doing what many blind people do, which is folding different bills in different ways so I would know which was which. The problem was that this made it difficult to keep my wallet in order, and putting the bills in my pocket sometimes ended up with them coming unfolded or getting crumpled around. I also had to ask clerks to specify which bill was which when getting my change. At a restaurant, when the waiter brings back your change they usually just have it sitting on the check plate thingy, and they set it down and walk away...how could I tell which bill was which, besides asking somebody else to tell me?

It seemed so silly that this was a problem, since our coins are all different sizees and have different edges so are easy to tell apart. I'm glad to see that the paper money in the US will finally be adjusted to accomodate blind people.

The descending number of bumps is to eliminate the possibility that someone will cut bumps to increase the apparent value of a bill (to try to fool a blind person).
But doesn't that mean you could simply shave a bump of a ten to increase its perceived value when confronting a blind clerk? Setting the bumps so that they have more bumps to go to higher numbers would allow the presious 1's to remain the same, thus preserving our drink machines in their current status and preventing the complete collapse of the western world.

Due to the recent court decision that said that US bills are not accessible to the blind (they're all the same size), I thought that the European method of having different bill sizes can't be the only solution.

Before the Euro Dutch banknotes included a "braille" system. That worked fine.

But doesn't that mean you could simply shave a bump of a ten to increase its perceived value when confronting a blind clerk? Setting the bumps so that they have more bumps to go to higher numbers would allow the presious 1's to remain the same, thus preserving our drink machines in their current status and preventing the complete collapse of the western world.

If you shave a bump, you're left with a rather long cutout in the bill - it would be obvious that it was tampered with.

Another note:
In many countries "chipcards" are gaining popularity as a way to pay in vending machines, replacing coins and banknotes. So maybe the note problem can be solved by simply letting the notes die out.

However, most of the electronic paymentsystems on vendingmachines are not that blindfriendly. Braille on the keypads, yes - but how is a blind person to know how much he/she is paying if that is only shown on a display...

We brits already have this sorted. All our coins are differnet shapes and sizes, and our notes are different sizes too.

Can you use different denominations of notes in vending machines? The main problem here is different size notes would require a dedesign of all vending machines and ATMs. That would be a very expensive process as would the cost of printing all new bills. By the way, the US is the only country that uses the same size and color notes for all denominations. :(

Can you use different denominations of notes in vending machines? The main problem here is different size notes would require a dedesign of all vending machines and ATMs. That would be a very expensive process as would the cost of printing all new bills. By the way, the US is the only country that uses the same size and color notes for all denominations. :(

Our vending machines don't usually take notes at all. However Mobile phone top-up machines do take our notes (but no note bigger than a £20 one, but then how many people have £50 note? I have only seen 4 in my life). Oh and don't forget, we use £1 coins not £1 notes.

I never got the reasoning behind your choice of having identical notes.

I never got the reasoning behind your choice of having identical notes.

It is to make it easier for forgers. US money is the wet dream of any counterfeit artist.

Another note:
In many countries "chipcards" are gaining popularity as a way to pay in vending machines, replacing coins and banknotes. So maybe the note problem can be solved by simply letting the notes die out.

However, most of the electronic paymentsystems on vendingmachines are not that blindfriendly. Braille on the keypads, yes - but how is a blind person to know how much he/she is paying if that is only shown on a display...

How are they suppsosed to know what they are getting? Today pressing the A and 1 keys might give you BBQ potato chips and when they reload the machine the same A and 1 keys might give you a candy bar.

How are they suppsosed to know what they are getting? Today pressing the A and 1 keys might give you BBQ potato chips and when they reload the machine the same A and 1 keys might give you a candy bar.

How do US vending machines solve this ?

Our vending machines don't usually take notes at all. However Mobile phone top-up machines do take our notes (but no note bigger than a £20 one, but then how many people have £50 note? I have only seen 4 in my life). Oh and don't forget, we use £1 coins not £1 notes.

I never got the reasoning behind your choice of having identical notes.

We have $1 coins as well but they are not very popular. The $2 notes aren't very popular either. Using the vending machine at the Post Office is a trip. It will take notes up to and including $20.00. So, when you stuff in a $20 and get $7.50 worth of stamps you end up with a lot of $1 coins. :eek:

How do US vending machines solve this ?

They don't and that is a problem for visualy impared people.

We have $1 coins as well but they are not very popular. The $2 notes aren't very popular either. Using the vending machine at the Post Office is a trip. It will take notes up to and including $20.00. So, when you stuff in a $20 and get $7.50 worth of stamps you end up with a lot of $1 coins. :eek:

I never knew that you had $1 coins as well. ok maybe a silly question but why do you have both?

How do US vending machines solve this ?

http://diggit.supremeserver13.com/images/Series%2012000.jpg

Here is what most of them look like. Oh, and potato chips could be loaded behind the Doritos so when the Doritos sell out you get potato chips by pressing the same keys that sold Doritos. I guess the only way a blind person can use these is to ask for help from a sighted person.

I have a blind friend who has no problem with US money. As an earlier poster suggested, he folds bills in different ways when he gets them from the bank. He then uses exact change whenever possible when paying, or asks that his change all be in 1 dollar bills, so there is no question of what he is getting. He has also told me that he finds people seem to want to be more helpful with money for him than they do for sighted people. No one has ever stiffed him just because they can.

I once asked him if he ever thought about marking his bills with braille (he marked his cards that way, so he can play poker, but we can't let him deal or he would know what hands we have!) but he said that money passes around too quickly to make that practical... he would spend too much time marking his bills... that folding was faster, easier and just as effective.

I asked him just now about vending machines, and he said "I ask a passerby to help me, which they usually do, but mostly just don't bother with vending machines, and go into a store instead where a clerk assists me."

I never knew that you had $1 coins as well. ok maybe a silly question but why do you have both?

Mostly to annoy us. The $1 coin is not much bigger than a quarter, and so tends to get lost in a pocket full of change. The NY subway system also has vending machines for fare cards which dispenses $1 coins as change, and if I ever get one, I take it straight to the token booth (which no longer dispenses tokens, as it happens; the whole system has been changed over to fare cards) and give it to the person inside and get a paper dollar instead. I think many people do it that way. The latest version of the $1 coin (the Sacajewea gold colored one) was rolled out a number of years ago with a big flurry of advertising about how wonderful it was, and turned out to be a complete bust as NOBODY but collectors liked it.

I never knew that you had $1 coins as well. ok maybe a silly question but why do you have both?

Because the government wants people to use the $1 coins as they last much longer than the notes and thus cost less. The problem is the people just don't use them and the government keeps changing them in an attempt to get the people to accept them. When they made the Susan B. Anthony $1 coin it was a disaster. The coin was about the same size and color as the 25-cent coin but it had a different edge on it. People kept putting them in vending machines thinking they were 25 cents and jammed the machines. The current $1 coin is a different size than the 25 cent one and is gold color but people still don't use them very much. Now they are planning on coming out with a different $1 coin. We still have the $2 note, but most people don't use them either. I don't know why as they were widely used in the 1950s.

Blind folks can't handle money? This is news. I've had blind friends that have run concessions and snack bars for years. When I heard this, I asked how often they had under-runs in the register. The answer was "not nearly as often as the sighted clerks". I guess most of us don't stiff the blind and they must count change better than the sighted.

Same here. I've seen blind people's methods of handling money and it never occurred to me that there was a problem.

So here's the question: IS there an issue with the money? Are blind people pushing for this, or are apologists pushing for this? I'd like to know before I decide which side of the issue to land on. *nod*

I never knew that you had $1 coins as well. ok maybe a silly question but why do you have both?

Because for some bizarre reason, coins won't catch on.

So here's the question: IS there an issue with the money? Are blind people pushing for this, or are apologists pushing for this? I'd like to know before I decide which side of the issue to land on. *nod*

Based on the responses sofar it seems the main problem is that dishonest shopkeepers can give the blind people the wrong amount of change.
The chipcard can IMO solve all those problems - provided a blind person has a blindfriendly chipcard reader with him which he can use to check the amount substracted from the chip after paying.

I was mulling over an idea I had for making money more accessible to the blind, without having to reprint a lot of stuff, and still having the bills work (where necessary) in automated vending machines.

Due to the recent court decision that said that US bills are not accessible to the blind (they're all the same size), I thought that the European method of having different bill sizes can't be the only solution.

So...
All of these retain the original printing, and original bill dimensions.

Bills in circulation can be sent through a die cutter if necessary. New bills can be diecut to the following.

1 dollar bill = wavy shallow cutout with five bumps on the edge
5 dollar bill = wavy shallow cutout with four bumps
10 dollar = three bumps
20 dollar = two bumps
50 dollar = one bump
100 dollar = no alteration

The descending number of bumps is to eliminate the possibility that someone will cut bumps to increase the apparent value of a bill (to try to fool a blind person).

If the cuts are done towards the middle of the bill, the bill will retain sufficient dimension to work in automated vending machines with no problems.
my friend has a reader that tells her what the bills are ;)

i was told by a blind person how they can till the types of bills they in there hand
:( but now i have forgotten

Why not just alter the edges of the bill?

$1 leave the same
$2 small triangular edging.
$5 rounded edging/corners
$10 Long wavy edges


et cetera.

Why not just alter the edges of the bill?

$1 leave the same
$2 small triangular edging.
$5 rounded edging/corners
$10 Long wavy edges


et cetera.

it would be to easy for the edging to get damaged during use.

I think size, texture and braile are the few option that are really avalible.

I think size, texture and braile are the few option that are really avalible.

thats what i was told, they go by that,but not braile

thats what i was told, they go by that,but not braile

I ment that braile could be used, however the braile would become less and less obvius the more the note is used.

I ment that braile could be used, however the braile would become less and less obvius the more the note is used.

i know what you were going about
because i ask the person about using braile on notes,they said the same thing you just said

Same here. I've seen blind people's methods of handling money and it never occurred to me that there was a problem.

So here's the question: IS there an issue with the money? Are blind people pushing for this, or are apologists pushing for this? I'd like to know before I decide which side of the issue to land on. *nod*

My cynical side tells me that this is nothing more than an apologist-type issue, but I, too, would like to know if there is a real problem with the way the blind are treated. Again, my anecdotal evidence says no, but that's a pretty limited source of information.