NationStates Jolt Archive

Attention StarCraft players!

What do you think the philisophical essage behind StarCraft is?

For starters I think that these are the allegories:

Tassadar=Jesus
Protoss=Old conservatives
Terrans= Greedy bastards who exploit both liberalism and conservatism for self interest
Zerg=Liberal/communists
Kerrigan=good person who goes bad due to neglegence and abuse.
UED= Right wing socialism
Dugalle=Hitler
Mengsk= Leader who gives people what they want up to the point where he gets what he's after and he represents royalty of victimised nations during the nazi invasion
Dark templar=protestants
templar=Catholics

What do you guys think the sybols in the game are?

Blizzard has never been shy about the allegories in their games. Diablo was chock full of Christian ones. Warcraft goes for a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars theme. I like their games, but you can see how they just took bits and pieces of other sci-fi/fantasy stories and mashed them together into this big messy amalgam.

Blizzard has never been shy about the allegories in their games. Diablo was chock full of Christian ones. Warcraft goes for a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars theme. I like their games, but you can see how they just took bits and pieces of other sci-fi/fantasy stories and mashed them together into this big messy amalgam.

At least StarCraft was original. :)

Blizzard has never been shy about the allegories in their games. Diablo was chock full of Christian ones. Warcraft goes for a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars theme. I like their games, but you can see how they just took bits and pieces of other sci-fi/fantasy stories and mashed them together into this big messy amalgam.
Also, they took a lot from D&D, which took a lot from other stuff as well.

What's Star Warsy about Warcraft? Not trying to be confrontational. I'd really like to know.

Not particularly. It's clearly heavily influenced by Starship Troopers; the Terrans and Zerg in particular. And the Protoss are just the Jedi, with the Zerg serving as Darth Vader.

And then Blizzard ripped themselves off for the Ahn'Qiraj in World of Warcraft. How do you do that?

Not particularly. It's clearly heavily influenced by Starship Troopers; the Terrans and Zerg in particular. And the Protoss are just the Jedi, with the Zerg serving as Darth Vader.

And then Blizzard ripped themselves off for the Ahn'Qiraj in World of Warcraft. How do you do that?

Kerrigan was serving more as the Darth Vader though. Because of the fall to darkness and rerising and all.

Ew. If thats the case Luke Skywalker was dating his father! :eek: Asuming of course Jim Raynor is Skywalker.

Also, they took a lot from D&D, which took a lot from other stuff as well.

What's Star Warsy about Warcraft? Not trying to be confrontational. I'd really like to know.

It's hard to say that they "ripped" off D&D because D&D is a part and parcel extraction of Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is so all-encompassing that it's hard not to rip it off in the fantasy genre anymore. It's like public domain now.

Warcraft does the whole "fallen saviour" thing a couple of times. Illidan falls, Medivh falls, Arthas falls. It's not egregious, but you can see the parallels.

DuGaulle is certainly not a Hitler figure, instead he's more of a militarist, perhaps along the lines of Suharto, while Mengsk is more akin to a Hitler figure, or perhaps a popular revolutionary.

The Terrans are all folks who are playing a game that's way out of their league, going against a foe who has the advantage of being uniquely elite, and a foe who has the advantage of being a horde based force. They're to represent the utilitarians amongst us, the people who compromise in their favored capabilities, and whose only strength is flexibility. They try to play other sides off of each other, but they're only alright at doing so, and would be advised to refrain from such actions.

The Zerg are collectivists of all stripes. Total disregard for the lives of their members, and total inability to wage a subtle war.

The Protoss are religious collectivists, who also happen to have a long history of elite campaigning. They're roughly comparable to the elite orders of Christian Europe during the middle ages. How their devotion to their beliefs gives them strength for training. Only, they're problem is they're the representatives of a style of warfare that repeatedly found itself in hard times when faced with more flexible, effective fighting forces. Think Agincourt.

Warcraft does the whole "fallen saviour" thing a couple of times. Illidan falls, Medivh falls, Arthas falls. It's not egregious, but you can see the parallels.
The "fallen savior" is a myth common to all mankind. Ever read up on how Lucas used "The Hero With a Thousand Faces?"
There's a reason that Star Wars is loved all over the world.

DuGaulle is certainly not a Hitler figure, instead he's more of a militarist, perhaps along the lines of Suharto, while Mengsk is more akin to a Hitler figure, or perhaps a popular revolutionary.

The Terrans are all folks who are playing a game that's way out of their league, going against a foe who has the advantage of being uniquely elite, and a foe who has the advantage of being a horde based force. They're to represent the utilitarians amongst us, the people who compromise in their favored capabilities, and whose only strength is flexibility. They try to play other sides off of each other, but they're only alright at doing so, and would be advised to refrain from such actions.

The Zerg are collectivists of all stripes. Total disregard for the lives of their members, and total inability to wage a subtle war.

The Protoss are religious collectivists, who also happen to have a long history of elite campaigning. They're roughly comparable to the elite orders of Christian Europe during the middle ages. How their devotion to their beliefs gives them strength for training. Only, they're problem is they're the representatives of a style of warfare that repeatedly found itself in hard times when faced with more flexible, effective fighting forces. Think Agincourt.

But Degaulle invades Mengsk for power and after reading the Blizzard race history site the UED are a socialistic nation who beleive all must fall under the human race, seems pretty similar to hitler's views on Germans ruling over all non germans. Dugalle ordered experiments on Protoss and Zerg and wanted to find out how to use them as a tool for earth's power, eventually in the end when Dugalle is surrounded he shoots himself with a German Luger the same way Hitler shot himself in a bunker.

I think that you may be thinking about things too much

I think that you may be thinking about things too much

Hey I'm a nerd, and I used to be obsessed with the game. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9dazdcogBw

I do admit there might be symbolism in Starcraft (they might have also made it to make money :p ), but I find the storyline particularily interesting. It is really neat how most sci-fi storylines (Starship Troopers :headbang:, for example [didn't really like it]) usually have humans portrayed as the ultimate good and the "aliens" as the epitomy of evil, killing for no reason. Starcraft I find especially unique here: Terran - only a small group of humans can be considered "good", most people are innocent bystanders and most humans are extremely greedy. Humans are also rapists of the environment no matter who they are! Zerg - some may consider them "evil", but if you actually pay attention, they are mostly driven by internal instinct (assimilating the Protoss) and not exactly evil. Protoss - perhaps the race that is closest to "good", but still has flaws, some pretty major, like the inability to accept change.
Overall, that's what I find neat: evil humans and good aliens. One can always speculate about symbolism, though!

I do admit there might be symbolism in Starcraft (they might have also made it to make money :p ), but I find the storyline particularily interesting. It is really neat how most sci-fi storylines (Starship Troopers :headbang:, for example [didn't really like it]) usually have humans portrayed as the ultimate good and the "aliens" as the epitomy of evil, killing for no reason. Starcraft I find especially unique here: Terran - only a small group of humans can be considered "good", most people are innocent bystanders and most humans are extremely greedy. Humans are also rapists of the environment no matter who they are! Zerg - some may consider them "evil", but if you actually pay attention, they are mostly driven by internal instinct (assimilating the Protoss) and not exactly evil. Protoss - perhaps the race that is closest to "good", but still has flaws, some pretty major, like the inability to accept change.
Overall, that's what I find neat: evil humans and good aliens. One can always speculate about symbolism, though!

It was the story that helped me find out what the symbols were. ;)

It's hard to say that they "ripped" off D&D because D&D is a part and parcel extraction of Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is so all-encompassing that it's hard not to rip it off in the fantasy genre anymore. It's like public domain now.

No, Warcraft is pretty damn obviously inspired by DnD.

What do you suppose the message was? To me it was that centrists are the only ones that don't cause bloody deaths.

neatral units=harmless centrist

bloody death=deterant for radicalism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOYHdzbfns

I think it's pretty easy to see the political allegory they are pointing to here.

StarCraft definatly didn't take ANYTHING from WH40K of course. *snort* *snort*

Tassadarr is just like Jesus though. Seriously, he's like the coolest video game character ever created.

StarCraft is surprisingly deep for what it is though. If you read the briefings as you play the campaign there's a really good story that goes along with the timeless gameplay.

At least StarCraft was original. :)

*chuckles*

Boy, I'd consider reading up a bit on Warhammer 40,000. Zerg are just weaker incarnations of the Tyranids, Protoss of the Eldar, ect.

Everything Blizzard has ever done, with the exception of Diablo which is so simple you can get it at church every weekend, is a ripoff of Games Workshop.

Everything Blizzard has ever done, with the exception of Diablo which is so simple you can get it at church every weekend, is a ripoff of Games Workshop.

Of what?

Everything Blizzard has ever done, with the exception of Diablo which is so simple you can get it at church every weekend, is a ripoff of Games Workshop.

Well nothing in sci-fi is original, so you can't really say it ripped off, more like inspired. Although I can see the Zerg/Nids connection, Protoss/Tau/Eldar?, maybe, but their quite different.

Of what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_Workshop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Battle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40%2C000

with the exception of Diablo which is so simple you can get it at church every weekend,
What the hell church gives out the message that Heaven is comprised of incompetent idiots?

Meh...personally, I grew tired of speculation.

Now I'm just waiting for Starcraft 2.

I want to know what the fuck Duran is up to! :mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOYHdzbfns

I think it's pretty easy to see the political allegory they are pointing to here.

Is it wrong that that speech still gives me goose bumps?

What the hell church gives out the message that Heaven is comprised of incompetent idiots?

The Church of Satan? *ba-dump-psh*

Is it wrong that that speech still gives me goose bumps?

I love the 'For we shall win through, no matter the cost!', it's so Churchill.

I love the 'For we shall win through, no matter the cost!', it's so Churchill.
It was my nation's quote for a while.

Meh...personally, I grew tired of speculation.

Now I'm just waiting for Starcraft 2.

I want to know what the fuck Duran is up to!

I hear Zeratul kills him in StarCraft2. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOYHdzbfns

I think it's pretty easy to see the political allegory they are pointing to here.

So Mengsk is the emporor for the overwhelmed centrists? :confused:

So Mengsk is the emporor for the overwhelmed centrists? :confused:

Wow. Just wow.

You think that's something, you should see the victory video for the Terran Campaign in Brood War.

I listened to the commentary on the DVD about that vid and they said they got their inspiration from the latest StarshipTroopers movie. I believe the term they used was "Over-the-top Patriotism".

Attention StarCraft players!

What do you think the philisophical essage behind StarCraft is?

For starters I think that these are the allegories:

I don't think they were supposed to be direct analogies of particular figures. But even if they were, you're way off on which ones.

Tassadar=Jesus

No. He never comes back to life. Even in some sort of Transcendent energy form which would have been in keeping with Protoss who become Archons.

On top of which, Jesus is of humble birth. Tassadar is a noble.

He's more of a DuGualle figure who sees the new power wielding revolutionary weapons against which the old guard has no defense. He is rideculed for wishing to emulate this new style against the new enemy, but is ultimatly proved right only after his nation has fallen to the enemy. Then he scrambles for allies elsewhere pulling together what's left of the forces available to him, and finally triumphs over the enemy, liberating his homeland, with the help of his allies. Just like DuGualle was irrelevant except for political reasons, the Protoss forces in the final battle of the original Starcraft are useless and the mission is more easily accomplished if the Protoss are ignored and the Terran (US) forces are used exclusively.

Protoss=Old conservatives

Not really. They are more like the socialists of Europe whose high-minded rhetoric ignored realities and left them vulnerable to enemies that they held in disdain.

Even the Archons, formed by merging two Templar, represents socialist strength through unity.

Terrans= Greedy bastards who exploit both liberalism and conservatism for self interest

Well, Terrans is not an all inclusive group in Starcraft. The followers of Mengsk are Stalinists. Mensk leads a revolution to overthrow a corrupt government and installs himself as absolute ruller after the revolution. Mengsk is a composite of Communist revolutionary leaders who become military dictators after their revolutions.

Zerg=Liberal/communists

I'm going to ignore the mindboggling stupidity and ignorance that is implicit in saying Liberal/communist like it's the same thing, and just address the Communist bit.

The Zerg are the Nazis. Nazis believed that the desires of the individual had to be completly subordinated to the state (the Communists did not believe in states other than as a political reality). Just like the Zerg have no will of their own, only the Cerebrates to a small degree and everything else is controlled by the Overmind.

Kerrigan=good person who goes bad due to neglegence and abuse.

Revolutionary leader's agent and sacrificed pawn. She's Che Guevera.

UED= Right wing socialism
Dugalle=Hitler

This and the Liberal/communist comment make me wonder why I'm addressing your post at all. There's no such thing as right-wing socialism.

Dugalle, despite the name, is a MacAurthur type figure. The loss of his forces to the Zerg represent the futility of any powerful Empire trying to jump in and take control of foreign territory. Including like what we did in trying to Conquer North Korea.


Mengsk= Leader who gives people what they want up to the point where he gets what he's after and he represents royalty of victimised nations during the nazi invasion

No, I've already explained how he represents communist dictators in general. Your analogy here fails because most European leaders did not want to give in to Hitler. Those who tried to resist, like Greece, were defeated quickly and brutally.

Mengsk, like several Communist dictators in Latin America tried to resist the military might of a great power attempting to impose it's will from affar (like Nicaragua or Chile.) This brought his destruction, but only served to unite the remaining forces against the imposing power.

Dark templar=protestants

Universal archetype of the disgarded underclass of the short-sighted ruling powers of the Protoss. In fiction there is almost always an underclass that sees what the ruling class does not. They are a symbolic presence, not an analogy of anything real. They are the weapons that France's General DuGualle would have used if he had them. But he didn't.

templar=Catholics

Universal archetype of the myopic ruling class that falls due to hubris.

What do you guys think the sybols in the game are?

Again, I don't think they are supposed to represent particular historical figures. They appeal to archetypes found in stories for thousands of years. But I'm pretty sure that if you see the Starcraft characters and the historical figures you mentioned as reflecting the same archetypes you have a terribly misguided understanding of both literary theory and history.

StarCraft definatly didn't take ANYTHING from WH40K of course. *snort* *snort*

Tassadarr is just like Jesus though. Seriously, he's like the coolest video game character ever created.

StarCraft is surprisingly deep for what it is though. If you read the briefings as you play the campaign there's a really good story that goes along with the timeless gameplay.

No he isn't. Jesus was a humble craftsman touched by God who came back from the dead after being killed by people who spurned him.

Tassadar was a noble-born military leader. Western storytelling full of noble characters who sacrificed themselves to save more humble characters. It's symbolic of the loss of nobility in our culture.

There is nothing whatever Messianic about Tassedar. Even if the designers wanted him to represent Jesus, they missed the mark. They should have had him emerge from the crash as an Archon.

Kerrigan was serving more as the Darth Vader though. Because of the fall to darkness and rerising and all.

Ew. If thats the case Luke Skywalker was dating his father! :eek: Asuming of course Jim Raynor is Skywalker.

Not really. Aniken became evil gradually. He was seduced to it.

I've already said that she's Che Guavera. Her ressurection as a Zerg is the use of dead revolutionaries as examples to those who might follow in their footsteps. Like how Hitler said that if he were in England's shoes he would shoot Ghandi and then shoot a hundred of his followers. If they didn't quiet down, he'd shoot 500, and so on until India was either pacified or empty.