NationStates Jolt Archive

how did the US succeed over the years?

Consider this:

We're all very different people. We're not Watusi, we're not Spartans, we're Americans. With a capital "A", huh? And you know what that means? Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts.

We're not all Aryan ubermensch. We're not all Christians. We're not all Muslims. We're not all Jews. We're not all atheists. We're not all Socialists, Communists, or any other ism or ist.

We've always had massive immigration to our country - sometimes higher, sometimes lower. But we've always had immigrants.

We didn't always have politically correct laws guaranteeing street signs in foreign languages - but we have those too, and it hasn't seemed to hurt.

We've even had bad laws - like anti-Chinese laws - but we grew up and threw the bad laws away.

We haven't had a perfect solution to immigration - but we've been wildly successful for a country with so many immigrants.

Why are some Europeans panicking over immigration?

Why are some Americans panicking? Some people are stupid.

how did the US succeed over the years?

Consider this:



We're not all Aryan ubermensch. We're not all Christians. We're not all Muslims. We're not all Jews. We're not all atheists. We're not all Socialists, Communists, or any other ism or ist.

We've always had massive immigration to our country - sometimes higher, sometimes lower. But we've always had immigrants.

We didn't always have politically correct laws guaranteeing street signs in foreign languages - but we have those too, and it hasn't seemed to hurt.

We've even had bad laws - like anti-Chinese laws - but we grew up and threw the bad laws away.

We haven't had a perfect solution to immigration - but we've been wildly successful for a country with so many immigrants.

Why are some Europeans panicking over immigration?

Europeans?! :eek: Europeans ain't trying to build a wall along their border to stop immigrants. Look closer to home first.

They're not a problem. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is that the government decided they don't like some nationalities. Mainly Mexicans, though Cubans are good.

We weren't worried about immigration before because we didn't have a welfare state. We should abolish it and be more open with immigration. However, Muslim immigrants are ruining Europe; look at the travesty that is happening in France. Soon, Europe will morph into an Islamic theocracy.

Why are some Americans panicking? Some people are stupid.

Ok, let's add the panicked ones in America as well.

WTF, over? Why the freakout?

Ok, let's add the panicked ones in America as well.

WTF, over? Why the freakout?

It's an excellent vote-getter. Keeps Tom Tancredo in Congress.

how did the US succeed over the years?

Consider this:



We're not all Aryan ubermensch. We're not all Christians. We're not all Muslims. We're not all Jews. We're not all atheists. We're not all Socialists, Communists, or any other ism or ist.

We've always had massive immigration to our country - sometimes higher, sometimes lower. But we've always had immigrants.

We didn't always have politically correct laws guaranteeing street signs in foreign languages - but we have those too, and it hasn't seemed to hurt.

We've even had bad laws - like anti-Chinese laws - but we grew up and threw the bad laws away.

We haven't had a perfect solution to immigration - but we've been wildly successful for a country with so many immigrants.

Why are some Europeans panicking over immigration?

I respect and agree with your opinion.
However the people who are attacking the immigration as it stands in this nation are not based in logic and reality.
Therefore your words fall on deaf ears, or blind eyes as it were.

the only problem with immigration is that it's often illegal. if it wasn't illegal it wouldn't be a problem, we wouldn't have the press panicking people into becoming bigots or encouraging people who already are bigots because it simply wouldn't be newsworthy. open the borders and everyone's happy. people who'll take the jobs can come in and the bigots can fuck off back to Arya, wherever that is.

Europeans?! :eek: Europeans ain't trying to build a wall along their border to stop immigrants. Look closer to home first.

Neither are we.

We're building a wall to stop criminals.

for europe. i think we should act like a club. only those we think are worthy are allowed in. surronding countries should change to our liking, then lower our borders to them. very slowly expanding the eu.
the eu ha started to mett some bumps on the road but eventually if will become a federation of mixed culture(i also include islam), same economic goal and hopefully, a single defense force(hoprfully controlled by me, everyones fav wannabie dictator!)
:sniper:

We weren't worried about immigration before because we didn't have a welfare state. We should abolish it and be more open with immigration. However, Muslim immigrants are ruining Europe; look at the travesty that is happening in France. Soon, Europe will morph into an Islamic theocracy.

someone wanting to wear a scarf to school and a large bunch of kids causing a ruckus cuz they have no prospects and suffer discrimination everyday is enough to ruin a country these days is it? i wish it was, then revolutions would be so much easier.

Neither are we.

We're building a wall to stop criminals.
Well, that's the way it was reported, anyway.

It's an excellent vote-getter. Keeps Tom Tancredo in Congress.

And where did his ancestors come from?

I missed the part where we were stopping immigration.

We are concerned about ILLEGAL immigration in the US. There are hordes of illegals that are outright felons in their country AND ours.
Phony ID, driving with no insurance and no license-the list goes on and on.

People that come here legally and have ID and become responsible and identifiable are alright with me.

I missed the part where we were stopping immigration.

We are concerned about ILLEGAL immigration in the US. There are hordes of illegals that are outright felons in their country AND ours.
Phony ID, driving with no insurance and no license-the list goes on and on.

People that come here legally and have ID and become responsible and identifiable are alright with me.

Maybe - just maybe - we have too many restrictions on immigration.

Neither are we.

We're building a wall to stop criminals.

No, we're making it seem like we want to build a wall so the politicians can get votes from the topic.

They're not a problem. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is that the government decided they don't like some nationalities. Mainly Mexicans, though Cubans are good.

The difference is the Cubans are seeking amnesty. They have to go to a hearing and plead their case. Everyone who enters the US has that option.

Illegal immigration is becoming a problem in my state. I don't know how many fast food resteraunts have help- wanted signs in spanish only. Those buisinesses are exploiting the illegal immigrants by making them work for sub- standard wages and igoring labour laws.

They're not a problem. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is that the government decided they don't like some nationalities. Mainly Mexicans, though Cubans are good.

We import more legal Mexicans than from any other country. :confused: We have no problem with Mexicans immigrating here legally.

The main problem in the UK with immigrants is the paperwork.
Did you know, there are 70km of warehouses devoted to the paperwork on immigration?

Well, that's the way it was reported, anyway.

That's because the reporting wants to create a bias.

Immigrants - those who meet the legal requirements to come to the US - are welcome with open arms and given many benefits that US citizens don't get. Such as federally guaranteed loans for things like small businesses.

Criminals - those who come here by bypassing the rules - deserve nothing more than being tossed back from whence they came.

The difference is the Cubans are seeking amnesty. They have to go to a hearing and plead their case. Everyone who enters the US has that option.
Not since the change to the wet foot/dry foot policy regarding Cuba. If you get your feet on dry land, you get to stay, end of story--as long as you're Cuban. If you're Haitian or Dominican or any other type, you get tossed back, generally speaking.

We import more legal Mexicans than from any other country. :confused: We have no problem with Mexicans immigrating here legally.

Actually, they're already here.

That's because the reporting wants to create a bias.

Immigrants - those who meet the legal requirements to come to the US - are welcome with open arms and given many benefits that US citizens don't get. Such as federally guaranteed loans for things like small businesses.

Criminals - those who come here by bypassing the rules - deserve nothing more than being tossed back from whence they came.

Ugh. The bill to build the wall was passed, but the full funding wasn't attached to the bill, and the funding that was attached wasn't required to go toward building the wall. It was a fucking shell game, and the press went along with it, with a few select exceptions. If there was any bias in the media on this, it was in favor of the government mouthpieces who wanted to look tough on immigration.

It is reported that we - the US - are so harsh to those who just want to break the law to come here.

How would it be if we emulated Mexico's policy?

================================
J. MICHAEL WALLER: Should we try Mexico's immigration law?

The Providence Journal
(Published: April 24, 2006)

WASHINGTON (SH) - Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. But Mexican officials haven't been sharing the idea with us as they press Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration-reform bill. That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how to handle immigration; under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien.

As the Supreme Court and politicians seek to bring U.S. law in line with foreign legal norms, it's noteworthy that no one has argued that the United States look at what Mexico might teach us about how to solve our illegal-immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law, seeking to ensure that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

- In the country legally.

- Have the means to sustain themselves economically.

- Not destined to be burdens on society.

- Of economic and social benefit to society.

- Of good character, with no criminal record.

The law also seeks to ensure that:

- Immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor.

- Foreign visitors do not violate their visa status.

- Foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country's internal politics.

- Foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported.

- Foreign visitors violating terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported.

- Anyone who aids in illegal immigration is imprisoned.

Who could disagree with such a law?

The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens, and the denial of many rights to non-citizens. The General Law on Population, spelling out the country's immigration policy, should cause Americans to ask: Why is our southern neighbor pushing us to water down our immigration laws and policies when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a crime punishable by more than a year in prison, Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico. Yet if the United States adopted such a law, Mexico would no doubt denounce it as a manifestation of American bigotry.

Mexico's main immigration law welcomes only foreigners deemed useful to Mexican society:

- Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

- Immigration officials must "ensure (that) immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and that of their dependents. (Article 34)

- Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence has upset "the equilibrium of the national demographics," if they are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," if they are not good citizens in their own country, if they have broken Mexican laws, or if "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

- The secretary of governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

Mexican authorities keep track of every person in the country:

- Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request: i.e., help in the arrest of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

- A National Population Registry tracks every "individual who comprises (sic) the population of the country," verifying each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

- A national Catalogue of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), assigning each a tracking number. (Article 91)

Foreigners with fake papers or who enter the country under false pretenses may be imprisoned:

- Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned.

(Article 116)

- Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

- Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

- Deported foreigners who try to re-enter Mexico without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

- Foreigners who violate terms of their visa may be sentenced for up to six years in prison. (Articles 119, 120, and 121) Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa (as by working without a permit) can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says:

- "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of 300 to 5,000 pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

- Foreigners with immigration problems may be deported, rather than imprisoned. (Article 125)

- Foreigners who "(make attempts) against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are considered criminals:

- A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

- Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

All of the above runs counter to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico's immigration practices and its American-immigration preachings reveals the Mexican government's agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.

Let's call Mexico's bluff on its interference in U.S. immigration policy. Let us propose, just to make a point, that North American Free Trade Agreement member nations standardize their immigration laws by using Mexico's law as a model.

J. Michael Waller is a professor of international communication at the Institute of World Politics in Washington.
================================
-- http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/syndicated/story/3269699p-12066726c.html

I missed the part where we were stopping immigration.

We are concerned about ILLEGAL immigration in the US. There are hordes of illegals that are outright felons in their country AND ours.
Phony ID, driving with no insurance and no license-the list goes on and on.
People that come here legally and have ID and become responsible and identifiable are alright with me.

oh, cuz they're just the lowest of the low aren't they. my god, people these days will do anything for a better life.

Actually, they're already here.

Not sure what hat means, but what I'm talking about is anual, legal migration from Mexico to the US.

Mexican immigrants account for about one-fifth of the legal immigrants living in the United States. This large percentage is actually a legacy of the legalization programs of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), under which about two million formerly undocumented Mexicans acquired legal status. In terms of the annual inflow of legal immigrants, about one in seven are Mexican. This share is substantially larger than the legal flow from any other country.

We don't appear to have a problem with Mexicans coming to live here legally.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/feature/display.cfm?ID=208

Part of the reason for the panic in Europe is due to th strain it puts on our social services and the fact that we are simply unequiped to deal with the massive influx of people from a different culture, who often display no desire to intergrate (even slightly) into their host country and expect the social and political climate to be very much the same as it was in their country.

Also, the US has less of a problem (except with certain minorities) because almost everyone in the country is (or is the desendant of) a relatively recent immigrant, with the exception of the natives (who were largely wiped out and their way of life mostly lost). Europe has much more genuine natives, with a much deeper rooted culture to match.

Part of the reason for the panic in Europe is due to th strain it puts on our social services and the fact that we are simply unequiped to deal with the massive influx of people from a different culture, who often display no desire to intergrate (even slightly) into their host country and expect the social and political climate to be very much the same as it was in their country.

Also, the US has less of a problem (except with certain minorities) because almost everyone in the country is (or is the desendant of) a relatively recent immigrant, with the exception of the natives (who were largely wiped out and their way of life mostly lost). Europe has much more genuine natives, with a much deeper rooted culture to match.

Not to mention that our illegal immigrants, side from the language barrier, share a common culture with us. It is a European culture, afterall. Thus the word "latin" in Latin America.

No, we're making it seem like we want to build a wall so the politicians can get votes from the topic.

Not quite.

We want the wall, but the politicians make it seem like they care so they can get votes.

Not quite.

We want the wall, but the politicians make it seem like they care so they can get votes.
Not all of us want the wall.

my god, people these days will do anything for a better life.

Not quite.

They won't follow the law.

Not all of us want the wall.

And, some of us want a bigger one.

Maybe I'm just weird for wanting the law to be obeyed...

And, some of us want a bigger one.

Maybe I'm just weird for wanting the law to be obeyed...

Your inadequacies do not make a good platform for foreign policy.

There is the 'problem' that the economy of the Southwest US relies on a large, unprotected and cheap labour pool.

Because of this, the only realistic solution is some sort of guest worker program.

And, some of us want a bigger one.

Maybe I'm just weird for wanting the law to be obeyed...I'd like the law to be obeyed as well, but the wall isn't the solution, as far as I'm concerned.

America was built on immigrants, I say we let them in. If they want to come here, work hard, and for less then I say why not? If they turn out to be criminals we can just toss them into jail while the majority of them contribute to the country.

America was built on immigrants, I say we let them in. If they want to come here, work hard, and for less then I say why not? If they turn out to be criminals we can just toss them into jail while the majority of them contribute to the country.

If it were only that simple. 40% of the inmates in LA county jails are illegal immigrants. Arny just got word from the courts that if he doesn't take steps to reduce the population in prisons in California that we'll have to start letting people go.

I'd like the law to be obeyed as well, but the wall isn't the solution, as far as I'm concerned.

It is a part, though an incomplete part, at best.

I would also call for a tough crackdown on US employers - at any level, even it's just a lawncare business with five guys - who hire illegals.

Dry up the jobs and maybe the influx will subside.

The answer is certainly not to give them amnesty.

I know this may surprise a lot of Americans but not everybody looks at America and thinks "That's what I want my country to be like".

I know this may surprise a lot of Americans but not everybody looks at America and thinks "That's what I want my country to be like".

Why would it be a surprise? I would expect the citizens of other countries to have pride in their nation, not another.

However, an awful lot of people are doing their level best to get here, including breaking the law.

My solution:

Beef up border security in a massive way - walls, fences, cyber walls, 20,000 more border guards, etc...

Severly fine employers that hire illegal immigrants. I mean fine them enough that it threatens their ability to stay in business. Jail employers that violate labor laws the same way we would if they violated them with an American citizen.

Streamline the immigration process. It costs way too much money for people who want to come here and it takes way to long to go through the process.

License private employment firms to open in Mexico, primarily. Anyone has most favored nation trading status. People and companies can pay these firms to find people in other countries that are looking for jobs in the US. These firms must put all possible emplyees through health and background checks and these firms must meet certain standards to keep their licenses - in other words we check to see whether they are being thorough enough in the health and background checks.

If it were only that simple. 40% of the inmates in LA county jails are illegal immigrants. Arny just got word from the courts that if he doesn't take steps to reduce the population in prisons in California that we'll have to start letting people go.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he was discussing that!
(a) Repeal a law or two.
(b) Prison hulks.
(c) Outsourced 'prison services.'
(d) An 'early-release lottery.' Ten bucks a ticket.
(e) Gladiators.
(f) Tents.
(g) Have another drink.
(h) Leak an innappropriate joke.

Europeans?! :eek: Europeans ain't trying to build a wall along their border to stop immigrants. Look closer to home first.
Well, Europeans are trying hard to rival Australia in their treatment of poor brown people who want to live here.

Well, Europeans are trying hard to rival Australia in their treatment of poor brown people who want to live here.

Hey, I'm not saying that Europe is by any means perfect (because it's not), I'm just saying it's funny to point the long finger across the Atlantic when there is much the same problem at home.

If it were only that simple. 40% of the inmates in LA county jails are illegal immigrants. Arny just got word from the courts that if he doesn't take steps to reduce the population in prisons in California that we'll have to start letting people go.

Maybe he can outsource prisons to India. Prisoners will be cheaper to feed and the guards will be cheaper too.

We weren't worried about immigration before because we didn't have a welfare state. We should abolish it and be more open with immigration. However, Muslim immigrants are ruining Europe; look at the travesty that is happening in France. Soon, Europe will morph into an Islamic theocracy.

Heh. Not quite, something called Dominant Ideology Theory will see that doesn't happen. Although Europe may Islamise, it will not de-Liberalise (at least not in a non-European way).

And where did his ancestors come from?

Space.

The main problem in the UK with immigrants is the paperwork.
Did you know, there are 70km of warehouses devoted to the paperwork on immigration?

*sigh* Bring on the paperless office, that's what I say.

Why would it be a surprise? I would expect the citizens of other countries to have pride in their nation, not another.

However, an awful lot of people are doing their level best to get here, including breaking the law.

In some societies that would be taken as a compliment.

Maybe he can outsource prisons to India. Prisoners will be cheaper to feed and the guards will be cheaper too.

I had a similar idea, but outsourcing to Africa instead. There are large areas of Africa with crippling unemployment among former paramilitary-men with few skills beside looking scary.

In some societies that would be taken as a compliment.

And, it is, as long as the law isn't broken to accomplish the entry.

Can a person who breaks the law to enter the US be trusted not to break other laws?

I believe that there should be an international standard policy for immigration.

One that applies to all nations.

I believe that if you have proof of a job in another country that will last six months or longer, and you are not a convicted felon, you should be entitled to a work visa.

I believe that if you are able to prove that you have worked without a break in employment in a country for a year, and prove that you will still be employed for at least another six months, you should be entitled to apply for citizenship (assuming you haven't been doing criminal acts while on your visa).

I believe that countries should be allowed to add some basic requirements such as a culture and history test, and a loyalty oath (may not work, but it gives some people the warm fuzzy).

You should be able to bring your immediate family, if it can be proved that your wages will support them.

I would favor bringing extended family in, if it means you stop sending money to your country of origin.

Yes, by all means, go paperless on this. But I would add that a national identity card with biometric features would also help.

We need to make immigration easier, yet monitored, and controlled to prevent the migration of felons.

That's because the reporting wants to create a bias.

Immigrants - those who meet the legal requirements to come to the US - are welcome with open arms and given many benefits that US citizens don't get. Such as federally guaranteed loans for things like small businesses.

Criminals - those who come here by bypassing the rules - deserve nothing more than being tossed back from whence they came.

Be interested in seein ghow you'd deal with defectors from the Sov Union back in the day....

Would you have sent these people back? Like the family that built a balloon to fly from East Germany to the West?

good grief!

how did the US succeed over the years?

Consider this:



We're not all Aryan ubermensch. We're not all Christians. We're not all Muslims. We're not all Jews. We're not all atheists. We're not all Socialists, Communists, or any other ism or ist.

We've always had massive immigration to our country - sometimes higher, sometimes lower. But we've always had immigrants.

We didn't always have politically correct laws guaranteeing street signs in foreign languages - but we have those too, and it hasn't seemed to hurt.

We've even had bad laws - like anti-Chinese laws - but we grew up and threw the bad laws away.

We haven't had a perfect solution to immigration - but we've been wildly successful for a country with so many immigrants.

Why are some Europeans panicking over immigration?

Nationalism is still too deep in people's heart and mind. In some countries it's rising again. Anyways I think that people never should repeat (or forget) those mistakes what are made in the cause of it.

Be interested in seein ghow you'd deal with defectors from the Sov Union back in the day....

The same way they were dealt with. They were not breaking the law any more than Cuban refugees coming to Florida's shores are.

We have laws that deal with refugees. The illegal aliens from places like Mexico, do not qualify and are criominals.

good grief!

Problem, Charlie Brown?

the reason there seems to be such an immigration problem these days, seems to be attached to the fact that the immigrants can keep strong contacts with their home countries.
Us next to mexico
Eruope next to north africa/middleeast.

So what i propose is IMMIGRANT SWAP!

europe gets the mexicans/latinos and the USA can have the north africans/middle-easterners.

europe gets the mexicans/latinos and the USA can have the north africans/middle-easterners.

As long as they come here LEGALLY, I have no problem.

As long as they come here LEGALLY, I have no problem.

actually i'm curious how many legal immigrants does the US allow in each year?

This pretty much sums up my views on immigration.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This pretty much sums up my views on immigration.

Including more Mohammed Attas?

how did the US succeed over the years?

Consider this:



We're not all Aryan ubermensch. We're not all Christians. We're not all Muslims. We're not all Jews. We're not all atheists. We're not all Socialists, Communists, or any other ism or ist.

We've always had massive immigration to our country - sometimes higher, sometimes lower. But we've always had immigrants.

We didn't always have politically correct laws guaranteeing street signs in foreign languages - but we have those too, and it hasn't seemed to hurt.

We've even had bad laws - like anti-Chinese laws - but we grew up and threw the bad laws away.

We haven't had a perfect solution to immigration - but we've been wildly successful for a country with so many immigrants.

Why are some Europeans panicking over immigration?

Because your country sucks, and I dont want Britain to turn into the same crap hole. I dont like the lurch London is making into New York, not at all.

They're not a problem. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is that the government decided they don't like some nationalities. Mainly Mexicans, though Cubans are good.


As a native born Cuban now American citizen, lol.

actually i'm curious how many legal immigrants does the US allow in each year?

I believe it's 2 million. Heard the figure somewhere, but I'm not positive.

Including more Mohammed Attas?

At least he came in legally. Weren't you one of the people saying that you don't mind immigration, it's the illegal part that bothers you?

By the way, the reason the wall won't do much for illegal immigration is because the big way illegals get here is that they come legally and overstay their visas, and we don't keep track of them. If you want to do a more effective job on immigration, stop that side of it. The wall is a sideshow.

Can a person who breaks the law to enter the US be trusted not to break other laws?

Um... Yes. Everybody breaks the law at some point, that doesn't mean that they cannot be trusted not to murder, cheat and steal. Illegal immigrants break the law out of desperation, just like we all would, it does not mean they are necessarily criminally-minded people.

Because your country sucks, and I dont want Britain to turn into the same crap hole. I dont like the lurch London is making into New York, not at all.

:rolleyes: I apologise for my compatriot...