NationStates Jolt Archive

I would just like to express my distaste at the comments of the pro-Israelis lately regarding the convention held by the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Recent comments have amounted (on NSG and in the Media funnily enough) as nothing but 'ZOMG holocaust denier, Eichman!!11shift', and saying the conference was a meeting of anti-semitics. Firstly, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but the destruction of the Zionist regime in Israel, and he used a comparison to the Soviet Union to make his point that he wasn't against the people but the bloody oppressive regime in power at the moment.

He said that whether the holocaust happened or not, it is totally irrelevant to today and the reality of Israels actions in the region, especially in Palestine. That is not denying it happened, but simply saying if it did (obviously it did) but Israel use it as justification and pretense for invasion and subjugation of their neighbours, creating such things as the Abu Dis ghetto in the West Bank where thousands of Palestinians live in near inhuman conditions created by the Zionist regime.

It also cannot be said to be anti-semitic, because ultra-orthodox Jews were at the convention itself, and they believe the holocaust happened but also agree that it's irrelevant today to the region, and has indeed become a pretense for constant attack. But of course the reactionary pro-Zionist lobby and media have taken it totally out of context to seem like Hitlers convention on the Jewish problem, I certainly dont remember any Jews attending that. This is simple, it was a conference to put out the reality of the oppressive Zionist regime that has hijacked the Jewish people for abhorrent political aims in the region. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!

but Israel use it as justification and pretense for invasion and subjugation of their neighbours


Your post looses all credebility there.

* makes lots & lots of popcorn and gets comfortable *

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!

:(

Why is it that we can have secular states (nearly all of Western Europe), atheist states (North Korea and China), Hindu states (Nepal), Muslim states (Afghanistan, even under the new constitution), etc. when we can't havve Christian or Jewish ones?

*watches as anti-Iran people swarm thread*

a world without Israel (http://www.ilga.org/news-upload/WorldPridelogo.jpg)

Isn't any government of Israel inherently Zionist?

Why is it that we can have secular states (nearly all of Western Europe), atheist states (North Korea and China), Hindu states (Nepal), Muslim states (Afghanistan, even under the new constitution), etc. when we can't havve Christian or Jewish ones?
Well, Israel is as secular as Europe or America, and none of the other countries you listed are my idea of well-run countries.

Well, Israel is as secular as Europe or America, and none of the other countries you listed are my idea of well-run countries.

The point is, no calling for them to be disbanded and handed over to the people who openly say that they want to destroy them.

The point is, no calling for them to be disbanded and handed over to the people who openly say that they want to destroy them.
That's a different matter, and it has very little to do with Israel's "Judaism".

* makes lots & lots of popcorn and gets comfortable *

*does the same*

No the point is, the Zionists are racial segregationists and religious exclusivists, Israel should be secular and multicultral but as long as those bigots are in power it wont be.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!
Okay, I'll play. Let's say that happens, Andaras. *Poof! 3b1l zionist regime vanishes.* What do you advocate should be done next?

That's a different matter, and it has very little to do with Israel's "Judaism".

I disagree.

So, you are actually calling for the destruction of the only Secular Democracy in the Middle East and want to hand the land over to extremists who wish to force their religion on everyone?

You're crazy. :)

And, IMHO, Israel has no selfish reason in attacking other/defending itself from other countries in neighbours and only does so because it is constantly being picked on by other Middle Eastern Nations, so if Iran really DOES want the fighting to stop, it should back off on Israel.

No the point is, the Zionists are racial segregationists and religious exclusivists, Israel should be secular and multicultral but as long as those bigots are in power it wont be.

by bigots you mean "democratically elected government with muslim's in the senate"?

The fact is, Israel is not an evil regine. It is just neglegent and stupid, not corrupt.

Unlike what most of the nations surrounding Israel want done to it's civilians, Israel does NOT want to harm any innocent civilian, let alone commit any sort of genocide.

I admit that it's pretty bad at practicing self defence, but it is still defence not offence.

Israel has no less a right then any other country to be there, infact they way Israel was "conquered" was probably the least violence claim on any peice of land in the middle east.

The fact is, Israel is not an evil regine. It is just neglegent and stupid, not corrupt.

Unlike what most of the nations surrounding Israel want done to it's civilians, Israel does NOT want to harm any innocent civilian, let alone commit any sort of genocide.

I admit that it's pretty bad at practicing self defence, but it is still defence not offence.

Israel has no less a right then any other country to be there, infact they way Israel was "conquered" was probably the least violence claim on any peice of land in the middle east.

http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/files/maddow/images/beirut%20explosions.preview.jpg
The Zionists' 'New Middle East'.

No the point is, the Zionists are racial segregationists and religious exclusivists, Israel should be secular and multicultral but as long as those bigots are in power it wont be.

ANd you prove you know nothing on this topic with your definition of Zionism. Go look it up in the dictionary and try again.

It's a good thig the Brits gave the land to the Israelites/Zionists... If they gave it to the Aristrocrats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aristocrats_(joke)), I would have topped myself already. The Jews seem to take themselves somewhat less seriously... only some, mind you.

The point is, no calling for them to be disbanded and handed over to the people who openly say that they want to destroy them.

The Irony here being that Jews in then Palestine were treated better in the Middle East than they were throughout several European countries. Each(Jews and Muslims) holding a "live and let live" sort of ideology which had lasted since the Crusades( When the Crusaders massacred both groups indescriminently); now we have the middle east torn apart because of the creation of a Jewish state. Sometimes history plays cruel tricks on the living.

ANd you prove you know nothing on this topic with your definition of Zionism. Go look it up in the dictionary and try again.

I do not judge the Zionists by ideology but by what they do.

I do not judge the Zionists by ideology but by what they do.

So, then why are they bad again...?

Is the Zionists also the name of the cult that eats children in the middle east? Because...well...i'm really confused with your post.

Unless of course IDF is right, and you know well...nothing.

I disagree.
Well, as far as fundamentalist Muslims are concerned, Israel's Judaism is no doubt quite crucial. But for the rest of us, the majority religion of it's people is not the only reason why it should exist.

by bigots you mean "democratically elected government with muslim's in the senate"?

Probably the one which Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Desmond Tutu claim is racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Israel_and_the_territories

Probably the one which Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Desmond Tutu claim is racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation#Israel_and_the_territories

Well, in that case lets hope that the terrorist bombs kill as many Jews as possible. Have to make them pay for this injustice, after all. :rolleyes:

is a beautiful thing

Well, in that case lets hope that the terrorist bombs kill as many Jews as possible. Have to make them pay for this injustice, after all. :rolleyes:

Please don't put words in my mouth. That person alleged that the Israeli government was not bigoted. I posted evidence that suggested it was. Was trying for one of those debate thingies, you know the ones I mean.

Please don't put words in my mouth. That person alleged that the Israeli government was not bigoted. I posted evidence that suggested it was. Was trying for one of those debate thingies, you know the ones I mean.

Perhaps previous expereince in this thread has led me to jump to conclusions, if so in this case, I'm sorry.

It is true of course that the government could care less about the Palestinians in the territories, obviously if they did then perhaps they could reduce the trouble they are experiencing by increasing their quality of life. But whatever they think simply having troops around will not be sufficient to keep them from attacking. Unfortunate, I see it as yet another example as to how both sides can be equally blamed for the current situation there.

*does the same*

*Brings in t3h ch33t0s*

Perhaps previous expereince in this thread has led me to jump to conclusions, if so in this case, I'm sorry.

It is true of course that the government could care less about the Palestinians in the territories, obviously if they did then perhaps they could reduce the trouble they are experiencing by increasing their quality of life. But whatever they think simply having troops around will not be sufficient to keep them from attacking. Unfortunate, I see it as yet another example as to how both sides can be equally blamed for the current situation there.

Apology accepted. :)

And a depressingly accurate post.:(

No doubt zionism's an evil force but I ain't gonna claim that the Iranian president isn't an anti-semite. That would be pretty damn ignorant.

And a depressingly accurate post.:(

Yes, and unfortunately many people can't seem to accept that there is fault to be found on both sides. They either see the "Zionist oppression of Arabs" so obviously the Arabs should do whatever they want to stop the Jews. Give the terrorists permission to do their horrific acts. Or it will be the other side, where Israel can do no wrong, all Palestinians are violent animals out to destroy the state and so Israel should be able to commit whatever military action needed to secure themselves no matter how many innocents die. I can't figure how people believe the situation is so black and white, it hardly is but I suppose going to one extreme is easy on the mind. Simply yell that the other side is evil and it makes your arguement simple, doesn't it?

I would just like to express my distaste at the comments of the pro-Israelis lately regarding the convention held by the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Recent comments have amounted (on NSG and in the Media funnily enough) as nothing but 'ZOMG holocaust denier, Eichman!!11shift', and saying the conference was a meeting of anti-semitics. Firstly, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but the destruction of the Zionist regime in Israel, and he used a comparison to the Soviet Union to make his point that he wasn't against the people but the bloody oppressive regime in power at the moment.

He said that whether the holocaust happened or not, it is totally irrelevant to today and the reality of Israels actions in the region, especially in Palestine. That is not denying it happened, but simply saying if it did (obviously it did) but Israel use it as justification and pretense for invasion and subjugation of their neighbours, creating such things as the Abu Dis ghetto in the West Bank where thousands of Palestinians live in near inhuman conditions created by the Zionist regime.

It also cannot be said to be anti-semitic, because ultra-orthodox Jews were at the convention itself, and they believe the holocaust happened but also agree that it's irrelevant today to the region, and has indeed become a pretense for constant attack. But of course the reactionary pro-Zionist lobby and media have taken it totally out of context to seem like Hitlers convention on the Jewish problem, I certainly dont remember any Jews attending that. This is simple, it was a conference to put out the reality of the oppressive Zionist regime that has hijacked the Jewish people for abhorrent political aims in the region. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!Way to go, motherfucker - you are now on the irredeemable meathead list.

This forum depresses me deeply some days.

Way to go, motherfucker - you are now on the irredeemable meathead list.

This forum depresses me deeply some days.

Way to respond intelligently to my post, thanks for proving the callibre of the pro-Zionists around here.

*does the same*

Pass it over.

Way to respond intelligently to my post, thanks for proving the callibre of the pro-Zionists around here.

How about you try not to generalize yourself? And just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "pro-Zionist". That would be generalizing again.

Way to go, motherfucker - you are now on the irredeemable meathead list.

This forum depresses me deeply some days.

How long until you make your trip to Israel? I'm going in 3 days!:D

People who insist on the terrible powers and vicious intents of the so-called Zionist Regime are panic-addicts who require a mystical bogeyman to haunt them at night in order to feel they are standing up for something.

How long until you make your trip to Israel? I'm going in 3 days!:D
This strikes me as a bit of an odd place to chew the fat, but sweet. I'll be there in 5. Cant wait. Only one more exam to get through!

The OP's name seems familiar. You ever play CN?

People who insist on the terrible powers and vicious intents of the so-called Zionist Regime are panic-addicts who require a mystical bogeyman to haunt them at night in order to feel they are standing up for something.

Thankyou for continuing to prove my point.

Also IDF, you should be sure to stop by the Abu Dis ghetto in the Weat Bank while your their, thousands of Palestinians who live in human conditions every day, you can see the Berlin Wall and possibly even a Palestinian waiting 9 hours in line at the checkpoint in order to get home after working hours in Israel just to prevent his family from starving to death, and even then he may get beaten half to death by angry Zionist soldiers.

What a lovely country the zionists have created for you.

Thankyou for continuing to prove my point.

Also IDF, you should be sure to stop by the Abu Dis ghetto in the Weat Bank while your their, thousands of Palestinians who live in human conditions every day, you can see the Berlin Wall and possibly even a Palestinian waiting 9 hours in line at the checkpoint in order to get home after working hours in Israel just to prevent his family from starving to death, and even then he may get beaten half to death by angry Zionist soldiers.

What a lovely country the zionists have created for you.

The Palestinians are in the condition they are because they have turned down EVERY single deal for a Palestinain State. Until they abandon supporting terrorist groups like Hamas, they won't get an ounce of sympathy.

BTW, go look at a dictionary and look up Zionist. Your lack of knowledge when it comes to this time invalidates any opinion you have on this subject.

The Palestinians are in the condition they are because they have turned down EVERY single deal for a Palestinain State. Until they abandon supporting terrorist groups like Hamas, they won't get an ounce of sympathy.

BTW, go look at a dictionary and look up Zionist. Your lack of knowledge when it comes to this time invalidates any opinion you have on this subject.

Zionist= Racist, terrorist, oppressor.

I know what Zionism claims to be, but that doesnt take away the reality of what they do, it's just all rhetoric and ideology. The reality of Zionism is the Jews trying to do to the Palestinians what was done to them.

Zionist= Racist, terrorist, oppressor.

I know what Zionism claims to be, but that doesnt take away the reality of what they do, it's just all rhetoric and ideology. The reality of Zionism is the Jews trying to do to the Palestinians what was done to them.

Look at a dictionary and educate yourself. You simply have no clue and you are just foaming at the mouth.

It also cannot be said to be anti-semitic, because ultra-orthodox Jews were at the convention itself.

And a homosexual led the SA, your point?

People do things that are directly contradictory to their own interests all the time.

The uneducated anti-Zionists should see this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1oq7oGO_N8

IDF you really should check out Dobbs' comment about you in this thread, it's rather true and could help you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=510812&page=6

The fact is, Israel is not an evil regine. It is just neglegent and stupid, not corrupt.

Unlike what most of the nations surrounding Israel want done to it's civilians, Israel does NOT want to harm any innocent civilian, let alone commit any sort of genocide.

I admit that it's pretty bad at practicing self defence, but it is still defence not offence.

Israel has no less a right then any other country to be there, infact they way Israel was "conquered" was probably the least violence claim on any peice of land in the middle east.

I rather agree.

IDF you really should check out Dobbs' comment about you in this thread, it's rather true and could help you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=510812&page=6

I don't give 2 craps for Dobbs or his opinions. He's a user who loves to blatantly flame whenever he knows he's losing an argument. It's really a sight to behold.

I don't think Israel can be called a secular state at all.. since they have outlawed all secular political parties. It came up within the last few years that a purely secular political party wished to start up, and it was disallowed due purely to being secular. Democracy, yes.. secular, not at all.

IDF you really should check out Dobbs' comment about you in this thread, it's rather true and could help you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=510812&page=6

And why don't you go ahead and answer my points please?

Eurotrashia;12082191']I don't think Israel can be called a secular state at all.. since they have outlawed all secular political parties. It came up within the last few years that a purely secular political party wished to start up, and it was disallowed due purely to being secular. Democracy, yes.. secular, not at all.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH

Please come back to this thread after you do some research kid.

Israel is very secular. After all, they have gay rights, women's rights, and the labor party is a socialist party and they are in a strong position of power.

80% of the Jews in Israel identify as secularists.

Eurotrashia;12082191']I don't think Israel can be called a secular state at all.. since they have outlawed all secular political parties. It came up within the last few years that a purely secular political party wished to start up, and it was disallowed due purely to being secular. Democracy, yes.. secular, not at all.

Linky's my man, linky's. It's a habit to get into.

Can we discuss the issue and stop resorting to calling each other names?

"F****** Anti-Semite!"
"F****** Zionist!"

It really doesn't do anything but spread hate.

Eurotrashia;12082191']I don't think Israel can be called a secular state at all.. since they have outlawed all secular political parties. It came up within the last few years that a purely secular political party wished to start up, and it was disallowed due purely to being secular. Democracy, yes.. secular, not at all.

The main parties are ones that are "Zionist" or simply want the state to remain a Jewish one but not all. I especially like this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meretz-Yachad

If it is accurate, I really like it. :)

Well, Israel is as secular as Europe or America, and none of the other countries you listed are my idea of well-run countries.GB is not secular-church of England, Spain is not secular, Italy is not secular
......Israel is not secular.....Israel supreme court ruled being Israeli and being Jewish cannot be separated.......the only democratic secular country in the entire middle east?......Lebanon, it has no official state religion the government is secular

Israel has a party for everything. One of the old former heads of Mossad started a party and has a seat or 2 IIRC. His party's primary stance is increasing senior citizen bneefits.

IIRC, there is a party that got a good number of seats in the last election on a platform of legalizing pot.

GB is not secular-church of England, Spain is not secular, Italy is not secular
......Israel is not secular.....Israel supreme court ruled being Israeli and being Jewish cannot be separated.......the only democratic secular country in the entire middle east?......Lebanon, it has no official state religion the government is secular

When Israel calls itself a "Jewish State" it is more of Jewish culture than religion. You realize that most Jews in Israel consider themselves to be "cultural Jews" and not religious Jews.

GB is not secular-church of England, Spain is not secular, Italy is not secular
......Israel is not secular.....Israel supreme court ruled being Israeli and being Jewish cannot be separated.......the only democratic secular country in the entire middle east?......Lebanon, it has no official state religion the government is secular

Of course, poor Lebanon can't even keep statelets from springing up within it's own borders and attempting to wage war without the authorization of the democratically elected government. The Lebanese government is pretty pathetic.

If there is to be an end to terrorism elimination of religion as part of peace negotiations is mandatory, with religion there can be no solution......common sense, humanity can bring a settlement

If there is to be an end to terrorism elimination of religion as part of peace negotiations is mandatory, with religion there can be no solution......common sense, humanity can bring a settlement

Since religion is at the very heart of the issue, we can hardly do that.

The cultural rivalry is based on the religious rivalry and that's what is causing the problems.

Of course, poor Lebanon can't even keep statelets from springing up within it's own borders and attempting to wage war without the authorization of the democratically elected government. The Lebanese government is pretty pathetic.

this is completely the result of the disruption that Zionism has on the region........maybe if they the 6 billion per year aid from the US and the slave labour the palestinians on the west bank provide they to could have a stable government.....of course they would also need to have Israel not destroy them ever 20yrs

this is completely the result of the disruption that Zionism has on the region........maybe if they the 6 billion per year aid from the US and the slave labour the palestinians on the west bank provide they to could have a stable government.....of course they would also need to have Israel not destroy them ever 20yrs

It's been like that before Israel got involved. It is in fact because of Syria so get your facts straight before you go on blaming the Evil J00s

Since religion is at the very heart of the issue, we can hardly do that.

The cultural rivalry is based on the religious rivalry and that's what is causing the problems.

I disagree, it can be done and it must be done......if not there will be no end to this war ever, is the world prepared for that?

How about you try not to generalize yourself? And just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "pro-Zionist". That would be generalizing again.

Unfortunately, all sides are guilty of generalizations and that no one cares that they are actually generalizing. Ironic that he does not let other voice opinions different from his own but yet supports the conference that all sides should be heard. I smell hypocracy.

I don't give 2 craps for Dobbs or his opinions. He's a user who loves to blatantly flame whenever he knows he's losing an argument. It's really a sight to behold.

It is to laugh. Or would be, under different circumstances.

May the road rise with you.

Thankyou for continuing to prove my point.

Also IDF, you should be sure to stop by the Abu Dis ghetto in the Weat Bank while your their, thousands of Palestinians who live in human conditions every day, you can see the Berlin Wall and possibly even a Palestinian waiting 9 hours in line at the checkpoint in order to get home after working hours in Israel just to prevent his family from starving to death, and even then he may get beaten half to death by angry Zionist soldiers.

What a lovely country the zionists have created for you.

And with comments like these, you only incite more trouble for yourself.

i would have to say that some Palestinians and the Zionists both contribute to the havoc in Palestine. Zionists contribute to most of the conditions in Palestine because they formed Israel on land that was already occupied. Majority of the people were Muslims with a few Jews. Unfortunately, Every single person, Muslim AND Jew were kicked off of their land when Israel was formed.

Now, years after that has occurred, the Palestinians are trying to reclaim that land. I believe they have right to the land, but they are not going about correctly with reclamation. First off all, bombing of civilians is completely unlawful in Muslim law (i know cuz im Muslim). So thats screwed up. Attacking soldiers, is okay, i guess, but not the best thing to do. I think diplomacy is the only way to solve this. And get realistic, no way is Israel going to give up its land to the Palestinians. Too many people have built their lives over there. There hopefully is some solution to this problem.

i think that the best thing to have done, when Israel was being formed was to form it somewhere where people were not already living. Kicking out the Palestinians was a very bad thing to do.

And with comments like these, you only incite more trouble for yourself.

He doesn't have the guts to even take my challenge to look in a dictionary because he can't admit I made a fool of him.

Zionist= Racist, terrorist, oppressor.

Actually, Zionism is wanting an Israeli state.

I know what Zionism claims to be, but that doesnt take away the reality of what they do, it's just all rhetoric and ideology. The reality of Zionism is the Jews trying to do to the Palestinians what was done to them.

:rolleyes:

i would have to say that some Palestinians and the Zionists both contribute to the havoc in Palestine. Zionists contribute to most of the conditions in Palestine because they formed Israel on land that was already occupied. Majority of the people were Muslims with a few Jews. Unfortunately, Every single person, Muslim AND Jew were kicked off of their land when Israel was formed.

Now, years after that has occurred, the Palestinians are trying to reclaim that land. I believe they have right to the land, but they are not going about correctly with reclamation. First off all, bombing of civilians is completely unlawful in Muslim law (i know cuz im Muslim). So thats screwed up. Attacking soldiers, is okay, i guess, but not the best thing to do. I think diplomacy is the only way to solve this. And get realistic, no way is Israel going to give up its land to the Palestinians. Too many people have built their lives over there. There hopefully is some solution to this problem.

i think that the best thing to have done, when Israel was being formed was to form it somewhere where people were not already living. Kicking out the Palestinians was a very bad thing to do.
And what do you have to say about the equal number of Jews kicked out of Islamic nations?

Israel didn't have the infrastructure to take them in but did it anyways. Perhaps the Arabs could've been as generous to their bretheren.

I disagree, it can be done and it must be done......if not there will be no end to this war ever, is the world prepared for that?

Well, when the war ends, the world ends, but that's religious too.

I think we should tell the Palestinians "Here you go!" Pay Jordan to give them land and to integrate them into their society and let a stip of land to Jerusalem be under the control of Israel but with stipulations like "No military except under certain conditions. Police only. etc."

Actually, Zionism is wanting an Israeli state.



:rolleyes:

I know, he's just angry because Websters didn't like him.

Eurotrashia;12082191']I don't think Israel can be called a secular state at all.. since they have outlawed all secular political parties. It came up within the last few years that a purely secular political party wished to start up, and it was disallowed due purely to being secular. Democracy, yes.. secular, not at all.

not a complete democracy, arabs are not allowed to have an arab only party, they must combine with jews to make a political party......and despite what anyone here may say particularly IDF, only a Jew can be an Israeli, arabs are not jews so they are stateless.....

this is completely the result of the disruption that Zionism has on the region........maybe if they the 6 billion per year aid from the US and the slave labour the palestinians on the west bank provide they to could have a stable government.....of course they would also need to have Israel not destroy them ever 20yrs

Actually, if you'd politely recall the correct facts on the matter, you'd take note of the fact that the Israelis, when they first entered South Lebanon, were hailed as heroes and liberators. They drove out the PLO, and the locals were grateful. The problem was, the Israelis, like the US, doesn't know when to pull back and let the locals take control.

Of course, poor Lebanon can't even keep statelets from springing up within it's own borders and attempting to wage war without the authorization of the democratically elected government. The Lebanese government is pretty pathetic.

Not to mention, Syrian intel agents are still in the city and the government is on the verge of collapse thanks to Hezbollah.

this is completely the result of the disruption that Zionism has on the region........maybe if they the 6 billion per year aid from the US and the slave labour the palestinians on the west bank provide they to could have a stable government.....of course they would also need to have Israel not destroy them ever 20yrs

I see someone does not know the history of the region.

i think that the best thing to have done, when Israel was being formed was to form it somewhere where people were not already living. Kicking out the Palestinians was a very bad thing to do.

Unfortunately for your argument, they did not kick out the Palestinians. Did they force some to leave during the '48 war? Yes. Did the Arabs do the same to both Jews and Palestinians? Yes they did. Did the Israelis offer citizenship to the Arabs who lived inside their state? Yes they did. Some even took them up on it. Did the Arabs help the refugees? No they have not. Jordan did let them live there until they tried to assassinate their king. After that, they were kicked out of Jordan. No other Arab state has assisted the Refugees and have kept them inside their little refugee camps.

Well, when the war ends, the world ends, but that's religious too.

I think we should tell the Palestinians "Here you go!" Pay Jordan to give them land and to integrate them into their society and let a stip of land to Jerusalem be under the control of Israel but with stipulations like "No military except under certain conditions. Police only. etc."

so you create anew problem for the Jordanians why would they want to give up part of their country this is how the problem all started, taking land for the Palestinians and giving it to outsiders. and Jordanians are not Palestinians, different ethnic group

so you create anew problem for the Jordanians why would they want to give up part of their country this is how the problem all started, taking land for the Palestinians and giving it to outsiders. and Jordanians are not Palestinians, different ethnic group

Jordan is Palestine. There was no Jordan until 80% of what was Palestine was used by the British to create a new nation to provide a counter-weight to Saudi Arabia.

Why should the Israel have created a problem for themselves when they took in nearly a million refugees forced from Arab lands? They actually lived in tent cities in the desert for 5 years until Israel could build housing for them.

Not to mention, Syrian intel agents are still in the city and the government is on the verge of collapse thanks to Hezbollah.

and why is hezbollah there? why is there a Hamas? because they are reaction to zionism.....fanaticism breeds more fanaticism.....religious zealots are what are f**king up the region.....Zionists moved in and the region goes down the toilet....Hezbollah, hamas, zionists they're f**kin insane, bigots ......religion the source of 99.99% of all that is bad in the world.......

and why is hezbollah there?

To explain that, I have to bring up what the PLO was doing in Lebanon prior to the Israeli invasion in the 80s to stop the PLO from attacking Israel from Lebanon.

Ironicly, Israel has pulled out of Lebanon to comply with UN resolutions but yet Hezbollah has not done so. Go figure.

why is there a Hamas?

Because they want to see the destruction of Israel.

Jordan is Palestine. There was no Jordan until 80% of what was Palestine was used by the British to create a new nation to provide a counter-weight to Saudi Arabia.

Why should the Israel have created a problem for themselves when they took in nearly a million refugees forced from Arab lands? They actually lived in tent cities in the desert for 5 years until Israel could build housing for them.

Jordan is a Hashemite kingdom-Bedouins are not Palestinian just like Germans are not French

you are Jewish bigot, trying to lump all Arabs as one people while only Jews are special gods chosen ones.....everyone else is a Arab/Palestinian

Apparently "Never forget" really meant "Just wait until casual and aggressive anti-Semitism becomes chic again."

When Israel calls itself a "Jewish State" it is more of Jewish culture than religion. You realize that most Jews in Israel consider themselves to be "cultural Jews" and not religious Jews.

I am sorry, what did you say? You talk about how others on here generalize, but you turn around and have no knowledge of Israel politics, non-Jews have no power in that nation what so ever. Please show me the proof that a NON-Jew has politcal say and power in that nation.


Also, Until 5 years ago or so, that land was mainly used and lived on BY NON-jews, now that is not to say that there wasnt Jews there, but that means that the Jews were coaxed there by fanatical religious Zionist before, during and after WW2, if it wasnt for them pushing both the British AND UN, we wouldnt be in this situation of today....oddly enough eh?

To explain that, I have to bring up what the PLO was doing in Lebanon prior to the Israeli invasion in the 80s to stop the PLO from attacking Israel from Lebanon.

Ironicly, Israel has pulled out of Lebanon to comply with UN resolutions but yet Hezbollah has not done so. Go figure.



Because they want to see the destruction of Israel.

What was the PLO doing in Lebanon.....geez I'll take a wild guess here, fighting a war to go home....home being their homes they were evicted from in Palestine/Israel......and where the f**k are hezbollah to go? they are home, go figure.

What was the PLO doing in Lebanon.....geez I'll take a wild guess here, fighting a war to go home....home being their homes they were evicted from in Palestine/Israel......and where the f**k are hezbollah to go? they are home, go figure.

*sighs*

I see we have to go through a whole another round of this shit again. I'll engage you in this later. For now I am off to bed for it is 104 AM during finals week.

I am sorry, what did you say? You talk about how others on here generalize, but you turn around and have no knowledge of Israel politics, non-Jews have no power in that nation what so ever. Please show me the proof that a NON-Jew has politcal say and power in that nation.


Also, Until 5 years ago or so, that land was mainly used and lived on BY NON-jews, now that is not to say that there wasnt Jews there, but that means that the Jews were coaxed there by fanatical religious Zionist before, during and after WW2, if it wasnt for them pushing both the British AND UN, we wouldnt be in this situation of today....oddly enough eh?

You know jack shit about Israel.

There are Arabs sitting in the Knesset and the Israeli Supreme Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Knesset_members

Gentiles have always made up about 20% of the population in Israel. That number has remained near constant, but is increasing a little bit as Jewish families are having less children.

Just another anti-Zionist who has been fed bullshit and knows shit about the topic.

What was the PLO doing in Lebanon.....geez I'll take a wild guess here, fighting a war to go home....home being their homes they were evicted from in Palestine/Israel......and where the f**k are hezbollah to go? they are home, go figure.

They were evicted by Jordan. THat's why they were in Lebanon.

Apparently "Never forget" really meant "Just wait until casual and aggressive anti-Semitism becomes chic again."

You took the words right outta my mouth, man...

religion the source of 99.99% of all that is bad in the world.......

Oh noze....teh fa1thz = teh ev1lz!

As if what you're advocating is any better?? "Yes, let's take peoples' freedoms away from them. Because, blank knows, no one should have too much of that, especially when it comes to what they want to think/believe."

<yawn>

Whatever. It's not like you have any better grip on life, and how to live it, than nayone else.

the zionists like tobring up the actions of other to accuse the israelis to behave like barbarians to innocents. then went they realise they have no arguement, they randomly bring up 1948.

Let me introduce to you something amusing

Myself, a 24 years old israeli, who don't believe in zionism cause it already played it part... but post-zionism is something else...
I voted in the last elections for Meretz, which is a totally secular social-democratic party.
I have friends who aren't jewish, I have superiors who are arabs... so basically... the generalizing is pretty idiotic.

It's true that the israeli government is racist and idiotic... but you want to know what's the funny thing, the israeli government isn't racist against arabs alone, but it's racists against each other... for example, do you know the Ashkenaz and Sapharadic jewish groups? they don't get along very well... and you know the russian immigrents and the "old" israelis, they don't get along very well as well...

So basically. what I'm saying, that been said before, the israeli government is filled by idiots... but than again... most governments are...

-snip-
Quoted for truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

:(

Why is it that we can have secular states (nearly all of Western Europe), atheist states (North Korea and China), Hindu states (Nepal), Muslim states (Afghanistan, even under the new constitution), etc. when we can't havve Christian or Jewish ones?

Huh??!?

What would you call the Vatican?

Quoted for truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You are aware that this wasn't for taking side, just to give a look of one part out of many in israel?

GB is not secular-church of England

Ah, yes. It has "England" in the name, so they're in charge of the country. Just like the England football team, England's Glory brand matches and my local "Heart of England" Co-op.

Ah, yes. It has "England" in the name, so they're in charge of the country. Just like the England football team, England's Glory brand matches and my local "Heart of England" Co-op.

thats amazing logic you got there. i'm sure english is tea is the really overlord of england. it does have english in the name.....:rolleyes:

my english history isnt great, but my understanding that some dude wanted protestanism to be the main religion of england and decided to set up a protestant church called the church of england. doesnt mean the churcho f england is the religion of england. probably most popular though, not sure.
ame goes for ireland. the church of ireland was set up, but 'gollowers' of the church ireland barely makes one percent of the population. 98% are still catholic. thank you poland for the extra boost.

Ah, yes. It has "England" in the name, so they're in charge of the country. Just like the England football team, England's Glory brand matches and my local "Heart of England" Co-op.

The head of state in the UK is the monarch. And the monarch is also head of the church of England.
The queen's title contains "defender od the faith" at some point.

The head of state in the UK is the monarch. And the monarch is also head of the church of England.
The queen's title contains "defender od the faith" at some point.
Plus, the C of E gets to appoint members of parliament.

Let me introduce to you something amusing

Myself, a 24 years old israeli, who don't believe in zionism cause it already played it part... but post-zionism is something else...
I voted in the last elections for Meretz, which is a totally secular social-democratic party.
I have friends who aren't jewish, I have superiors who are arabs... so basically... the generalizing is pretty idiotic.

It's true that the israeli government is racist and idiotic... but you want to know what's the funny thing, the israeli government isn't racist against arabs alone, but it's racists against each other... for example, do you know the Ashkenaz and Sapharadic jewish groups? they don't get along very well... and you know the russian immigrents and the "old" israelis, they don't get along very well as well...

So basically. what I'm saying, that been said before, the israeli government is filled by idiots... but than again... most governments are...
:)

Huh??!?

What would you call the Vatican?

And look how the vast majority of the world smiles on that little state! :rolleyes:

I didn't have any problems. I wonder why you did.

Oh noze....teh fa1thz = teh ev1lz!

As if what you're advocating is any better?? "Yes, let's take peoples' freedoms away from them. Because, blank knows, no one should have too much of that, especially when it comes to what they want to think/believe."

<yawn>

Whatever. It's not like you have any better grip on life, and how to live it, than nayone else.

Yeah, pretty much. You should post more often.

Firstly, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but the destruction of the Zionist regime in Israel, and he used a comparison to the Soviet Union to make his point that he wasn't against the people but the bloody oppressive regime in power at the moment.


This is what he said:
Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks

Now some people claim that he didn't mean it like that, but that he acctually ment regime.
If that is so why did Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator and member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, had a need to state: "Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments. What we need to be talking about is adding the state of Palestine to the map, and not wiping Israel from the map."
also former Iranian president Khatami stated "those words have created hundreds of political and economic problems for us in the world."

Further comments of president Ahmadinejad:
"We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from."

"Anti-Semitism in Europe has forced Jews to leave their countries of origin, but what they did instead was occupy a country which is not theirs but that of Palestinians,"

"The fact is that Israel can ultimately not continue its existence,"


Yeah such a guy, you must agree with him and love him, he surely don't want anyone no harm, why don't we just sell him nuclear weapons? Hey why sell? Look at his friendly attitude, we should give him a few for birthday.

Further comments of president Ahmadinejad:
"We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from."

I love this part.

And I especially like:

"Anti-Semitism in Europe has forced Jews to leave their countries of origin, but what they did instead was occupy a country which is not theirs but that of Palestinians,"

I guess someone does not know his History very well as the Jews originated in the Middle East and were expelled after they tried to kick out the Roman invaders from their homeland. Yep. Nice brain Ahmadjinejad.

"The fact is that Israel can ultimately not continue its existence,"

Seems to me he wants Israel gone.

* makes lots & lots of popcorn and gets comfortable *

*for bit of variety got some M&Ms instead*

A world without Zionism is better.

Zionism made many Arabs felt uncomfortable. In this situation, those Arabs terrorized Israel in the name of religion and nationalis. In return, the Zionists terrorized many Arabs in the name of the 'Holy Land'. From this point, the war between the two was becoming global, even until now.

The world is no longer safe.

If that is so why did Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator and member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, had a need to state: "Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments. What we need to be talking about is adding the state of Palestine to the map, and not wiping Israel from the map."

oh so the palestinians arent as evil as the zionist on this forum say? who would have thought it.

oh so the palestinians arent as evil as the zionist on this forum say? who would have thought it.

Maybe this is why Fatah and Hamas are now shooting each other...

Here are two links for those who wish to learn ...


Christian_Zionism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism


Zionism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

A world without Zionism is better.

Zionism made many Arabs felt uncomfortable. In this situation, those Arabs terrorized Israel in the name of religion and nationalis. In return, the Zionists terrorized many Arabs in the name of the 'Holy Land'. From this point, the war between the two was becoming global, even until now.

The world is no longer safe.

Boo-hoo, it made some people feel uncomfortable, let's just start blowing up people in response.

A world without Zionism is better.

Zionism made many Arabs felt uncomfortable. In this situation, those Arabs terrorized Israel in the name of religion and nationalis. In return, the Zionists terrorized many Arabs in the name of the 'Holy Land'. From this point, the war between the two was becoming global, even until now.

The world is no longer safe.

I think that the communists, republicans, liberals, fascists and so on, can also be put there.

(and if someone will say that all of the above also invented by zionists/jews, I will reply before hand that .... shuddup ~_~)

Make no mistake, Iran's President is a dangerous enemy of all Western and many modern eastern cultures and seeks to establish an Islamo-fascist state across the entire world. For the short term he will settle for the complete destruction of Israel, that is physically, not idealogicaly. Its time we stop fucking around minceing words trying to remain politically correct and paying attention listening to the other side's propaganda.
The only hope is that Iran's supreme leader is not as insane as the president which seems to be the case... for now.

Make no mistake, Iran's President is a dangerous enemy of all Western and many modern eastern cultures and seeks to establish an Islamo-fascist state across the entire world. For the short term he will settle for the complete destruction of Israel, that is physically, not idealogicaly. Its time we stop fucking around minceing words trying to remain politically correct and paying attention listening to the other side's propaganda.
The only hope is that Iran's supreme leader is not as insane as the president which seems to be the case... for now.

what happend when iran tried to be democratic?
the usa and britain tried getting rid the pro-democracy group and succeeded. then eventually, 1979 i think, they had a revolution to become democratic. so they actually against the idea of fascism. the president cant wage war on his own either. only the supreme leader can.

what happend when iran tried to be democratic?
the usa and britain tried getting rid the pro-democracy group and succeeded. then eventually, 1979 i think, they had a revolution to become democratic. so they actually against the idea of fascism. the president cant wage war on his own either. only the supreme leader can.

Let us also not forget that was back in 1954 and Eisenhower, with Intelligence from the CIA (:rolleyes:) thought that the Prime Minister was cozying up to the commies hence his overthrow.

what happend when iran tried to be democratic?
the usa and britain tried getting rid the pro-democracy group and succeeded. then eventually, 1979 i think, they had a revolution to become democratic. so they actually against the idea of fascism. the president cant wage war on his own either. only the supreme leader can.

Educate yourself before you look like more of a fool. The faction which took control in 1979 was most certainly not democratic, but instead one of the many minority groups which was able to galvinze the others in opposition to the Shah's regime. There has not been a real democracy in Iran in known history. The closest thing was in Mossadeq regime which the US and UK wisely toppled.

Educate yourself before you look like more of a fool. The faction which took control in 1979 was most certainly not democratic, but instead one of the many minority groups which was able to galvinze the other in oppositon to the Shah's regime. There has not been a real democracy in Iran in known history. The closest thing was in Mossadeq regime which the US and UK wisely toppled.

the president gets voted in every 4 years and he over sees the appoinments of the ministers. although i dont know how the ministers get in.

Educate yourself before you look like more of a fool. The faction which took control in 1979 was most certainly not democratic, but instead one of the many minority groups which was able to galvinze the others in opposition to the Shah's regime. There has not been a real democracy in Iran in known history. The closest thing was in Mossadeq regime which the US and UK wisely toppled.

Wisely toppled? Please explain.

the president gets voted in every 4 years and he over sees the appoinments of the ministers. although i dont know how the ministers get in.

Each section of the government has a shadow department run by clerics and it has equal or even greater power to the "democratic" government.

Saddam Hussein was elected too :rolleyes:

Wisely toppled? Please explain.

If a regime seized control of your oil companies, wouldn't you seek to topple it as well?

If a regime seized control of your oil companies, wouldn't you seek to topple it as well?

You have a problem with that however. Under International Law, they can very well nationalize whatever industries they want inside their country regardless of who owns them.

You have a problem with that however. Under International Law, they can very well nationalize whatever industries they want inside their country regardless of who owns them.

And the nation or interested party that owns the industry then can very well covertly organize riots and a coup to overthrow the government which makes that decision.

If a regime seized control of your oil companies, wouldn't you seek to topple it as well?

errr, no.....it's their country, their oil, they do what they wish with it......now you're getting to a point of why much of the world hates the USA, meddling in other countries affairs.....It's called imperialism......

errr, no.....it's their country, their oil, they do what they wish with it......now you're getting to a point of why much of the world hates the USA, meddling in other countries affairs.....It's called imperialism......

It was the UK FYI.

Anyway...
They built the oil derricks, they found the oil, they drilled it, they put all of the money up front and they were depended upon to keep the western economy and military moving. Whether its moral, or just or even legal under international law is beside the point. They would have been derelict in their duty to preserve their national interest if they had let that happen without a fight.

And the nation or interested party that owns the industry then can very well covertly organize riots and a coup to overthrow the government which makes that decision.

ahh the ugly side of Free Enterprise, it's no wonder communism found converts....

Democracy "we take what we want when we want it" vs the evil godless Communists, "resources belong to the people"

It was the UK FYI.

Anyway...
They built the oil derricks, they found the oil, they drilled it, they put all of the money up front and they were depended upon to keep the western economy and military moving. Whether its moral, or just or even legal under international law is beside the point. They would have been derelict in their duty to preserve their national interest if they had let that happen without a fight.
there was USA/CIA involvement FYI,

there was USA/CIA involvement FYI,

I already mentioned that, but it was the UK's oil.

ahh the ugly side of Free Enterprise, it's no wonder communism found converts....

Democracy "we take what we want when we want it" vs the evil godless Communists, "resources belong to the people"

Except the Communists did exactly that as well, and commonly, they did it more often than the western powers.

I already mentioned that, but it was the UK's oil.

i believe a nations natural resouces only belong to them. it makes sense to me. a country would be better at deciding what to do with it.
unfortunately irelands oil isnt nationised.:(

The Holocaust has been exploited endlessly as a blank check for apartheid. But to say that on NSG means you're an anti-Semitic Al Qaeda suicide bomber.

:D

Plus, the C of E gets to appoint members of parliament.


:)

To be pedantic the C of E is the state religion of England, not the UK, so technically the UK does not have a state religion.

Except the Communists did exactly that as well, and commonly, they did it more often than the western powers.

ok...name some countries that any communist nation overthrew because they had their oil corporations nationalized?

what happend when iran tried to be democratic?
the usa and britain tried getting rid the pro-democracy group and succeeded. then eventually, 1979 i think, they had a revolution to become democratic. so they actually against the idea of fascism. the president cant wage war on his own either. only the supreme leader can.

Yeah Iran really became democratic after the revolution:rolleyes:

the president gets voted in every 4 years and he over sees the appoinments of the ministers. although i dont know how the ministers get in.

Yes, sham elections where the opposition party is banned from participating.

Your posts show great ignorance on issues in the Middle East.

I think I'll be waiting awhile before Andaluciae comes back with a list of communist countries that overthrew foreign governments because they had their oil corporations(or any other tyoe of corporation) nationalised....if anyone else can think of some feel free to list them......

And the nation or interested party that owns the industry then can very well covertly organize riots and a coup to overthrow the government which makes that decision.

They can but the population of said country will not be happy with it as the cases of the Suez Crisis as well as Iran.

I think I'll be waiting awhile before Andaluciae comes back with a list of communist countries that overthrew foreign governments because they had their oil corporations(or any other tyoe of corporation) nationalised....if anyone else can think of some feel free to list them......

Maybe not for oil, but there is a long list of countries who had governments overthrown by the USSR.

You know jack shit about Israel.

There are Arabs sitting in the Knesset and the Israeli Supreme Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Knesset_members

Gentiles have always made up about 20% of the population in Israel. That number has remained near constant, but is increasing a little bit as Jewish families are having less children.

Just another anti-Zionist who has been fed bullshit and knows shit about the topic.


Now you are showing your idiotic side. I mean really, look at what you are saying and think again.

Sure they give them seats in the national government, so did the Nazis before and during WW2(either in the actual government or in the camps after the round up of Jews.
And dont you find it odd that the majority of the people of that region/nation is not represented? I am sorry, but Gentiles have made up MUCH more then that in the population, you need a wake up call.

By the way i am no where near being a anti-semite, but i will always be a anti-Zionist, they are the worst kind out there along with the Christian Fundies and Muslem extremists.

words fail me. Nadia Hilou, the first female Christian Arab in a Zionist country. heh.

errr, no.....it's their country, their oil, they do what they wish with it......now you're getting to a point of why much of the world hates the USA, meddling in other countries affairs.....It's called imperialism......

Err no, its the person who found the resources. Its the company that found and got the resources. Sorry, but they have every right to fight for the oil if someone else wants to take. Sorry, socialism and communism is failues and have proved that already with both Russia, China, N. Korea and Cuba. Russia is now a capitalist/free market, China is revertingto capitalism and free market, N. Korea is poor and has leaders that are incompetent and insane, Cuba has a leader that is the same and it also has government leaders that only care for themselves.....so how is socialism better again? Its not.
Besides Socialism takes away individual free thoughts.

And the nation or interested party that owns the industry then can very well covertly organize riots and a coup to overthrow the government which makes that decision.

Considering how the owners of those companies basically stole the oil right out from under the Iranians I really don't have a problem with them taking what is theirs back. When you get down to it though, the U.S. overthrew a democratic government in the Middle East. I'm sure there are many who don't want anyone to remember this.

Now you are showing your idiotic side. I mean really, look at what you are saying and think again.

Sure they give them seats in the national government, so did the Nazis before and during WW2(either in the actual government or in the camps after the round up of Jews.
And dont you find it odd that the majority of the people of that region/nation is not represented? I am sorry, but Gentiles have made up MUCH more then that in the population, you need a wake up call.

By the way i am no where near being a anti-semite, but i will always be a anti-Zionist, they are the worst kind out there along with the Christian Fundies and Muslem extremists.

The Gentile population of Israel is only 20% and the Knesset only has 120 seats. It isn't directly poportional to the populations, but that's because the people voted that way. The majority of people in Israel are Jewish (80%). You know jack shit about the region if you think Arabs are a majority and have proven yourself to be an ignorant person.

The Arabs can vote for whoever they damn well want. I'm pretty sure a large number of them voted for either Kadima or Labor.

Does anyone else see the flaw in the OP. How can he envision a world without Zionism when the poster himself doesn't even know what Zionism is?

Considering how the owners of those companies basically stole the oil right out from under the Iranians I really don't have a problem with them taking what is theirs back. When you get down to it though, the U.S. overthrew a democratic government in the Middle East. I'm sure there are many who don't want anyone to remember this.

They simply restored the king to power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

oh so the palestinians arent as evil as the zionist on this forum say? who would have thought it.

Have you ever been to Palestine? I have.
You know what Palestinians want? I mean really want?
Jobs, food, electricity and safety. Fatah as it is today is not evil, and even big parts of Hamas could be called moderate. Unfortunatly right now people who are in power, people who lead Hammas want to completly eradicate Israel. They see killing of Israeli civilians as good thing. They see their own people blowing themselves up as good thing.
And that IS evil. They ARE evil. But calling ALL palestinians evil because of that is moronic.

Does anyone else see the flaw in the OP. How can he envision a world without Zionism when the poster himself doesn't even know what Zionism is?

Zionism has really become a buzz word nowadays. I guess to make you feel politically viable, or something.

Now you are showing your idiotic side. I mean really, look at what you are saying and think again.

Sure they give them seats in the national government, so did the Nazis before and during WW2(either in the actual government or in the camps after the round up of Jews.
And dont you find it odd that the majority of the people of that region/nation is not represented? I am sorry, but Gentiles have made up MUCH more then that in the population, you need a wake up call.

By the way i am no where near being a anti-semite, but i will always be a anti-Zionist, they are the worst kind out there along with the Christian Fundies and Muslem extremists.
Um, I'm pretty sure the Nazis never gave Jews seats in the Reichstag...

In proportion, there are a lot more black and hispanic people in the USA than there are in government. CONSPIRACY! Some groups will get the short end of the stick when it comes to elections and all that. Not saying it's a good thing, just that you can't fault Israel in particular for doing it.

Now you are showing your idiotic side. I mean really, look at what you are saying and think again.

Sure they give them seats in the national government, so did the Nazis before and during WW2(either in the actual government or in the camps after the round up of Jews.
And dont you find it odd that the majority of the people of that region/nation is not represented? I am sorry, but Gentiles have made up MUCH more then that in the population, you need a wake up call.

By the way i am no where near being a anti-semite, but i will always be a anti-Zionist, they are the worst kind out there along with the Christian Fundies and Muslem extremists.

Guess what. In a democracy, what people vote for are who they want to rule over them. It is not nessecarly the case that Arabs will want Arabs to rule over them etc. National legistlatures do not need to be demograpically represnative. All they have to be is free, so their is no advantage given to one ethnicity over another

No doubt zionism's an evil force but I ain't gonna claim that the Iranian president isn't an anti-semite. That would be pretty damn ignorant.

Zionism is supporting Israel's right to exist. How is that evil? Ignorance is a blessing.

Way to respond intelligently to my post, thanks for proving the callibre of the pro-Zionists around here.

Intelligent post? You wish.

The Gentile population of Israel is only 20% and the Knesset only has 120 seats. It isn't directly poportional to the populations, but that's because the people voted that way. The majority of people in Israel are Jewish (80%). You know jack shit about the region if you think Arabs are a majority and have proven yourself to be an ignorant person.

The Arabs can vote for whoever they damn well want. I'm pretty sure a large number of them voted for either Kadima or Labor.

Are you kidding me? The population ratio is more like 4 to 2(Non-Jew to Jew). Of course this was before the Zionist movement moved the original land owners of that region. But of course you would forget that.....

I swear some of you dont know the region very well. Only ignorant person here is you.

Are you kidding me? The population ratio is more like 4 to 2(Non-Jew to Jew). Of course this was before the Zionist movement moved the original land owners of that region. But of course you would forget that.....

I swear some of you dont know the region very well. Only ignorant person here is you.

yeah idiot but... we're talking about now, not 60 years ago
:rolleyes:

Maybe not for oil, but there is a long list of countries who had governments overthrown by the USSR.
long list? ok let's see your long list.....I can think of 3 (none of those were for looting of resources), which is nothing close to what the USA has compiled in the name of Corporate Looting ....err I mean Freedom....

Err no, its the person who found the resources. Its the company that found and got the resources. Sorry, but they have every right to fight for the oil if someone else wants to take. Sorry, socialism and communism is failues and have proved that already with both Russia, China, N. Korea and Cuba. Russia is now a capitalist/free market, China is revertingto capitalism and free market, N. Korea is poor and has leaders that are incompetent and insane, Cuba has a leader that is the same and it also has government leaders that only care for themselves.....so how is socialism better again? Its not.
Besides Socialism takes away individual free thoughts.


Company's being nationalized has happened many times in many countries, it's
only in countries that the USA and GB can bully do they finance coups and invasions.


You apparently know little about socialism your brain has been so McCarthised you can't comprehend that socialism is alive and well in may countries. "Takes away individual thoughts":rolleyes: The ghost of McCarthy is still with us.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!

Hear hear !

yeah idiot but... we're talking about now, not 60 years ago
:rolleyes:

I am sorry, but that is part of the problem. Forgetting past crimes and then thrying to twist the truth. The fact remains and always will, BOTH the Zionist leaders and the Arab terrorist leaders/factions are the issue, so trying to make it look light for the Zionist leaders is not helping your arguement.
By the way, what does name call accomplish anyways???

Company's being nationalized has happened many times in many countries, it's
only in countries that the USA and GB can bully do they finance coups and invasions.


You apparently know little about socialism your brain has been so McCarthised you can't comprehend that socialism is alive and well in may countries. "Takes away individual thoughts":rolleyes: The ghost of McCarthy is still with us.

No, i am sorry, but socialism DOESNT work. For instance, in GB, prices have skyrocketed because of its socialism policies on healthcare, and gee i thought it was suppose to be free.....
And look at other ex-socialist nations, like China(even though they are a quasi-socialist nation),or Russia. Then also look at the other socialistic policies of Europe and of course central and south america(hint hint Chavez).
Sorry, i would rather have my trusty free-market/capitalism.

By the way, McCarthy has nothing to do with my views, infact he is much of a jackass as many socialists are on this topic. ;) :D

I would just like to express my distaste at the comments of the pro-Israelis lately regarding the convention held by the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Recent comments have amounted (on NSG and in the Media funnily enough) as nothing but 'ZOMG holocaust denier, Eichman!!11shift', and saying the conference was a meeting of anti-semitics. Firstly, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but the destruction of the Zionist regime in Israel, and he used a comparison to the Soviet Union to make his point that he wasn't against the people but the bloody oppressive regime in power at the moment.

He said that whether the holocaust happened or not, it is totally irrelevant to today and the reality of Israels actions in the region, especially in Palestine. That is not denying it happened, but simply saying if it did (obviously it did) but Israel use it as justification and pretense for invasion and subjugation of their neighbours, creating such things as the Abu Dis ghetto in the West Bank where thousands of Palestinians live in near inhuman conditions created by the Zionist regime.

It also cannot be said to be anti-semitic, because ultra-orthodox Jews were at the convention itself, and they believe the holocaust happened but also agree that it's irrelevant today to the region, and has indeed become a pretense for constant attack. But of course the reactionary pro-Zionist lobby and media have taken it totally out of context to seem like Hitlers convention on the Jewish problem, I certainly dont remember any Jews attending that. This is simple, it was a conference to put out the reality of the oppressive Zionist regime that has hijacked the Jewish people for abhorrent political aims in the region. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!

(Yawn)

Fuck off and go play with your little Hitler doll.

I would just like to express my distaste at the comments of the pro-Israelis lately regarding the convention held by the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Recent comments have amounted (on NSG and in the Media funnily enough) as nothing but 'ZOMG holocaust denier, Eichman!!11shift', and saying the conference was a meeting of anti-semitics. Firstly, Ahmadinejad did not call for the destruction of Israel, but the destruction of the Zionist regime in Israel, and he used a comparison to the Soviet Union to make his point that he wasn't against the people but the bloody oppressive regime in power at the moment.

He said that whether the holocaust happened or not, it is totally irrelevant to today and the reality of Israels actions in the region, especially in Palestine. That is not denying it happened, but simply saying if it did (obviously it did) but Israel use it as justification and pretense for invasion and subjugation of their neighbours, creating such things as the Abu Dis ghetto in the West Bank where thousands of Palestinians live in near inhuman conditions created by the Zionist regime.

It also cannot be said to be anti-semitic, because ultra-orthodox Jews were at the convention itself, and they believe the holocaust happened but also agree that it's irrelevant today to the region, and has indeed become a pretense for constant attack. But of course the reactionary pro-Zionist lobby and media have taken it totally out of context to seem like Hitlers convention on the Jewish problem, I certainly dont remember any Jews attending that. This is simple, it was a conference to put out the reality of the oppressive Zionist regime that has hijacked the Jewish people for abhorrent political aims in the region. Zionist is to Jew what Nazi is to German.

So I will echo his statements, the Zionist regime must be wiped off the planet!

"They have created a myth in the name of the Holocaust and consider it above God, religion and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in an address carried live on state television.
Ahmadinejad said. "However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews' massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can."

http://www.genocidewatch.org/IranIran'sPresidentCallsHolocaustMythinLatestAssaultonJewsDec2005.htm

maybe I don't understand the meaning of a myth... :rolleyes:

The president of Iran stood by his earlier call to "wipe Israel off the map" ...and..."My words are the Iranian nation's words," he said of his statement, which was widely condemned around the world.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/AntiSemitismIranianPresidentStandsbyCalltoWipeIsraelOffMapNov05.htm

Sounds like he has actually called for the complete destruction of Israel to me. Maybe we have different translations for what he has actually called for and for him defending his statements.

No, i am sorry, but socialism DOESNT work. For instance, in GB, prices have skyrocketed because of its socialism policies on healthcare, and gee i thought it was suppose to be free.....
And look at other ex-socialist nations, like China(even though they are a quasi-socialist nation),or Russia. Then also look at the other socialistic policies of Europe and of course central and south america(hint hint Chavez).
Sorry, i would rather have my trusty free-market/capitalism.

By the way, McCarthy has nothing to do with my views, infact he is much of a jackass as many socialists are on this topic. ;) :D

thanks for admitting that you know nothing about socialism....free,how uninformed

GB prices skyrocketed maybe but still a fraction of what it costs in the US. The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th. But, the US is two spots higher than impoverished Cuba at 39th well done, you must be so proud.

In a ranking of countries for overall quality of life the USA the 2nd richest country GDP, ranked 13th behind mostly(if not all) socialist countries. Your welcome to delude yourself with your failed free-market/capitalism/for the rich only system, we'll stay with our proven socialism.

The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th. But, the US is two spots higher than impoverished Cuba at 39th well done, you must be so proud.
.
That's because we have many MILLLIONS more people to take care of. :rolleyes:

I am sorry, but that is part of the problem. Forgetting past crimes and then thrying to twist the truth. The fact remains and always will, BOTH the Zionist leaders and the Arab terrorist leaders/factions are the issue, so trying to make it look light for the Zionist leaders is not helping your arguement.
By the way, what does name call accomplish anyways???

I wasn't talking about the "crimes" we "committed" I was talking about how many Jews vs. how many Arabs are in Israel, and not how many were.

That's because we have many MILLLIONS more people to take care of. :rolleyes:

Determining quality of healthcare has nothing to do numbers.....your health care sucks, those who can afford the best of care get it.....those who cannot, get nothing.

those who can afford the best of care get it.....those who cannot, get nothing.
That simply is not true.

You also have no sense of the difference between micro and macro management. Managing 58 hospitals is a great bit different than managing 5,800

That simply is not true.

You have no sense of the difference between micro and macro management also. Managing 58 hospitals is a great bit different than managing 58,000
45 million americans have no health care, that fact speaks for itself.....if a hospital is privately owned what does it have to do with manging the 57,999 other hospitals...

but the truth is the USA has 5,759 hospitals and 955,768 beds(may 2006)....France which rated no 1 is estimated at 3651 hospitals and the number of beds at some 499 900 (1998)....Population of France 60,656,178(CIA source book),population USA-295,734,134....with 5 times the population of france the USA would need about 16,000 hospitals and 2.5 million beds to equal France's medical care system

false quotation!

45 million americans have no health care, that fact speaks for itself.....if a hospital is privately owned what does it have to do with manging the 57,999 other hospitals...

but the truth is the USA has 5,759 hospitals and 955,768 beds(may 2006)....France which rated no 1 is estimated at 3651 hospitals and the number of beds at some 499 900 (1998)....Population of France 60,656,178(CIA source book),population USA-295,734,134....with 5 times the population of france the USA would need about 16,000 hospitals and 2.5 million beds to equal France's medical care system

Um, there is a LOT MORE hodpitals then that Socialist. A lot more. You also have to include clinics(which are set up differently then hospitals), you also have to include private and public. Problem with your source is it doesnt take in account of the small private and small clinics and hospitals. Too bad really...because they are an imporant reality too.

thanks for admitting that you know nothing about socialism....free,how uninformed

GB prices skyrocketed maybe but still a fraction of what it costs in the US. The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of gross domestic product (GDP) on health services, ranks 18th. But, the US is two spots higher than impoverished Cuba at 39th well done, you must be so proud.

In a ranking of countries for overall quality of life the USA the 2nd richest country GDP, ranked 13th behind mostly(if not all) socialist countries. Your welcome to delude yourself with your failed free-market/capitalism/for the rich only system, we'll stay with our proven socialism.


Actually it is you that just proved you know NOTHING about socialism...sorry to burst your bubble.
Then again i never did take stock in those polls you just mentioned, then again you never did show your links of the sources....
Actually you are wrong on the hidden fact that those same socialist nations lack in the medical feild because they are so far behind(much like Canada)in treating their patients, some still waiting months if not years later for treatment....so sad you are in denial.
Read and weep....
http://www.jayreding.com/archives/2006/02/27/another-failure-for-single-payer-care/

Um, there is a LOT MORE hodpitals then that Socialist. A lot more. You also have to include clinics(which are set up differently then hospitals), you also have to include private and public. Problem with your source is it doesnt take in account of the small private and small clinics and hospitals. Too bad really...because they are an imporant reality too.

are you saying the American Hospital Association (AHA.org) is lying? You don't think that other countries France inculded don't have clinics as well?

The USA is member of WHO that determines health rankings, yours sucks(37th), delude yourself if you want.....

false quotation!

based on?

Actually it is you that just proved you know NOTHING about socialism...sorry to burst your bubble.
Then again i never did take stock in those polls you just mentioned, then again you never did show your links of the sources....
Actually you are wrong on the hidden fact that those same socialist nations lack in the medical feild because they are so far behind(much like Canada)in treating their patients, some still waiting months if not years later for treatment....so sad you are in denial.
Read and weep....
http://www.jayreding.com/archives/2006/02/27/another-failure-for-single-payer-care/

Canada is behind, really? Health care in Canada cost approximately half what it does in the USA yet and this is the defining statistic on health care Canadians live on average two years longer than Americanscosts less, live longer, medically covered from the day I'm born till the day I die, not hard to decide which is best.

The myth of long waits....critical cases are handled quickly, if you want a nose job you may have to wait while heart and cancer patients go first. If I have to wait for a year or more for elective surgery it's better than being in the USA and being one of those uninsured who will never get their surgery ever. I can never be un-insurable or be bankrupt by illness, you cannot say the same. And we live 2 YEARS LONGER!

Canada is behind, really? Health care in Canada cost approximately half what it does in the USA yet and this is the defining statistic on health care Canadians live on average two years longer than Americanscosts less, live longer, medically covered from the day I'm born till the day I die, not hard to decide which is best.

The myth of long waits....critical cases are handled quickly, if you want a nose job you may have to wait while heart and cancer patients go first. If I have to wait for a year or more for elective surgery it's better than being in the USA and being one of those uninsured who will never get their surgery ever. I can never be un-insurable or be bankrupt by illness, you cannot say the same. And we live 2 YEARS LONGER!



Did you even read the link? I didnt think so.....keep living in denial....
More reading for you to see.

http://primaryhealthcare.blogspot.com/2006/09/canadian-medicare-another-failed.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/hl856.cfm

Did you even read the link? I didnt think so.....keep living in denial....
More reading for you to see.

http://primaryhealthcare.blogspot.com/2006/09/canadian-medicare-another-failed.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/hl856.cfm

any link to an american site will promote the wonders of the US private health system.....because they have a motive to promote$$$$$, private hospitals and insurance corporations are in the business of making money, public health care is the enemy and they will distort any facts to their benfit.......WHO on the other hand has no $$$$ cash agenda only the health of the world

I have a predicted life expectancy of TWO YEARS MORE then an american and it will cost me 50% less then what you will pay, I can NEVER become un-insurable.....come up with all the biased websites you want, the all important facts are on my side.......

Well, see here the difference is, i dont predict my life, i live it. See, i may be logocal person, with reason. And frankly,i have enough family members(including my wife)that is in the medical field to know that we have what can be considered the best, sorry, but you are not.

And i suppose whatever evidence you can show would be just as biased as mine then huh? Lets be fair here....huh? So stop pulling the string of "oh, your evidence is American, so it must be wrong and biased". Come on, if you cant present evidence, admit it and get done with it....

Well, see here the difference is, i dont predict my life, i live it. See, i may be logocal person, with reason. And frankly,i have enough family members(including my wife)that is in the medical field to know that we have what can be considered the best, sorry, but you are not.

And i suppose whatever evidence you can show would be just as biased as mine then huh? Lets be fair here....huh? So stop pulling the string of "oh, your evidence is American, so it must be wrong and biased". Come on, if you cant present evidence, admit it and get done with it....

evidence is american so must be biased? no you said that....I said any website that twisted the facts is wrong and has a cash agenda....any american sites showing the US health system as superior has an agenda to show they are better, insurance companies will do and say anything to discredit public health care........Canadians live two years longer than americans that is the bottom line in judging health care and that comes from the U.S. Census Bureau 2000.

CIA fact book-2006- Canada 12th 80.22, USA-77.85 48th .....in 6 yrs time Canadians gained nearly another half year in life expectancy over Americans, you're falling even behind and we pay less per person for our health care.

evidence is american so must be biased? no you said that....I said any website that twisted the facts is wrong and has a cash agenda....any american sites showing the US health system as superior has an agenda to show they are better, insurance companies will do and say anything to discredit public health care........Canadians live two years longer than americans that is the bottom line in judging health care and that comes from the U.S. Census Bureau 2000.

CIA fact book-2006- Canada 12th 80.22, USA-77.85 48th .....in 6 yrs time Canadians gained nearly another half year in life expectancy over Americans, you're falling even behind and we pay less per person for our health care.

Oh yes, they are so much better off. :rolleyes:

Just like up there the meds are not covered by your healthcare? Also your access to medical help is still tough, you admit that right? Also, i dont think you do take in account the population differences, and how we have people down here that dont take the time to sign up for health insurance. So if you blame anything, blame the individuals and not the system....

Also you have to account the fact that Canada is behind in medical technology too, for the use of MRI equiptment, USA is first place in the world while canada is like 13th. When it comes to other equiptment like CT scanners USA is ranked 3rd and Canada is ranked 16th.
And still teh notion of waiting longer for a procedure of importance is ranked high for Canada.

Oh yes, they are so much better off. :rolleyes:

Just like up there the meds are not covered by your healthcare? Also your access to medical help is still tough, you admit that right? Also, i dont think you do take in account the population differences, and how we have people down here that dont take the time to sign up for health insurance. So if you blame anything, blame the individuals and not the system....

longevity statistics are how the world measures the effectiveness of healthcare, USA trails many countries, you may want to make light of a 2 yr difference but it is significant. Remember that when you're laying on your death bed, "if I lived in Canada I might have lived another two years".

I've never had a med that wasn't covered, there is different coverage depending on the med and dispensing fees, but you can get extra coverage through insurance to take care of that. Meds are cheaper in Canada regardless, internet med sales from Canada are recording record sales to the USA because of their low cost.

access-never had a problem, the mrs needed surgery for an injury(non life threatening), she had a 1 day wait...I need surgery for an ortho injury(non critical) 11 months and that was because one Dr f**ked up my referral to a surgeon otherwise it would have been 6 months, and if I had chosen to go to a different hospital it could have been 6-8 weeks... Daughter had elective oral surgery, 2 weeks....Two other kids ill, both admitted same day.

Canadian ER wards are no different than in the US, depending on the neighbourhood the hospital is located your wait time could be fast or very slow, but as in any ER critical cases are seen first, nosebleeds seen last. Locally we've had problems here because we had a conservative government that is pushing a private health care system...They deliberately closed down 3 hospitals doubling the work load on the remaining 3 hospitals in a city that was growing at an incredible pace. Of course they pointed to the hospitals backlog as proof that the public medicare can't handle the problem:rolleyes: .

What ever you may hear about wait times here they to be taken with a grain of salt(if not a shovel full). The opponents of public health love to refer to the extreme cases. If someone has a rare condition that only a few Drs specialize in yes you will likely have to wait, that's no different in any other country. Biggest wait times and those that draw the most complaints here are usually connected to aging ortho patients, hip and knee replacements. These people spend a lot of time in recovery often months, that ties up beds in ortho wards and causes long wait times. Because the population is aging the majority are boomers, they are are overwhelming the ortho Drs.

I have Dr friend who worked at John Hopkins as a Cardiologist who says that the US system is great if you're wealthy, if not Canada is has the much better system.

I know threads drift a bit, but it takes quite a bit of effort to turn Zionism into universal healthcare.

Also you have to account the fact that Canada is behind in medical technology too, for the use of MRI equiptment, USA is first place in the world while canada is like 13th. When it comes to other equiptment like CT scanners USA is ranked 3rd and Canada is ranked 16th.
And still teh notion of waiting longer for a procedure of importance is ranked high for Canada.

so what, I've had a MRI and a CT in the last year, I could care less where it's developed, we have it.......there are countries all over the world that have recorded firsts for technology developed in their country.....radiation treatment for Cancer first done in Canada.....insulin Canada.....I've invested in a medical technology for glaucoma treatment which will be a world leader.....again so what, who cares where the technology comes from as long as I have access to it, and I do....and if I want quick access to any technology I have the option of paying for it, next week if I want, but why pay 1,500 for a full MRI when I can wait 2 months and get it for free.....

I know threads drift a bit, but it takes quite a bit of effort to turn Zionism into universal healthcare.

ya I thought the same thing, but it went from Zionism, imperialism, evils of socialism to social healthcare...there was natural progression but you're right it should have been a different thread....

I know threads drift a bit, but it takes quite a bit of effort to turn Zionism into universal healthcare.

Ya good point. However, Socialist brought it on him/herself, not me.

By the way Socialist, sometimes that two months can be very deadly....and when you have 300 million patients waiting, that is bad.....


Ok, back to Zionism heheh.....

IDF.. You are an idiot, a bigot and you are ignorant. GTFO.

And we live 2 YEARS LONGER!

That's primarily a lifestyle, not healthcare, issue. Don't confuse the two.

IDF.. You are an idiot, a bigot and you are ignorant. GTFO.

And just what post were you refering to? To call someone an idiot without pointing to where he is an idiot, makes you an idiot.

That's primarily a lifestyle, not healthcare, issue. Don't confuse the two.

Thank you, and a vey good point!

Ya good point. However, Socialist brought it on him/herself, not me.

By the way Socialist, sometimes that two months can be very deadly....and when you have 300 million patients waiting, that is bad.....


Ok, back to Zionism heheh.....

excuse me, besides posting shit you now want to add lying? You brought in the failure of socialism as a topic not me.

300 million patients waiting? US population 295 million and all of them are waiting simultaneous two months to see a doctor:rolleyes: that's so stupid I almost feel sad for you(if I wasn't laughing so hard).....please if you're going to debate with adults at least use a plausible argument that will at least convince a ten year old....

That's primarily a lifestyle, not healthcare, issue. Don't confuse the two.

how pathetic......when the gap increases to ten years you'll try attribute it to the type of cars we drive......you are funny nation.....

300 million patients waiting? US population 295 million and all of them are waiting simultaneous two months to see a doctor:rolleyes:

Someone here is most definitely behind in the news. We broke the 300 million popultion figure several weeks ago.

how pathetic......when the gap increases to ten years you'll try attribute it to the type of cars we drive......you are funny nation.....

WHy don't you cease with the character attacks?

Can't we all just get along? :fluffle:

Lol, the President of Iran is nuts. He would clearly, if given the opportunity kill ALL Jews. He hates them, there is no question. He threatens to kill 2/3rds of the world population and all you liberals can do is whine about the one country that says "I don't think so buster." What gets me is, you lefties don't mind supporting extreme right-wing facists, just so long as they're as crazy as you are.

Someone here is most definitely behind in the news. We broke the 300 million popultion figure several weeks ago.

that's childish and desperate debating....because I don't keep a 24 hour vigil for the US population you make mention of trivial detail.......but someone makes a ludicrous claim that 300 million Americans are waiting simultaneously two months to see a doctor and you let that go by without question???

Lol, the President of Iran is nuts. He would clearly, if given the opportunity kill ALL Jews. He hates them, there is no question. He threatens to kill 2/3rds of the world population and all you liberals can do is whine about the one country that says "I don't think so buster." What gets me is, you lefties don't mind supporting extreme right-wing facists, just so long as they're as crazy as you are.

...

...huh?

that's childish and desperate debating....because I don't keep a 24 hour vigil for the US population you make mention of trivial detail.......but someone makes a ludicrous claim that 300 million Americans are waiting simultaneously two months to see a doctor and you let that go by without question???

Just pointing out that your population numbers were wrong when you stated that there were 295 million people.

As to questioning 300 Million people waiting for a hospital bed, I think what he means is that there are 300 million people who could be waiting for a bed. He is not saying that all of us are waiting for bed but that we all could be waiting a long time for a bed if we had a similiar system like Canada's. Why do you think several Canadians come across the border for treatment?

Look at a dictionary and educate yourself. You simply have no clue and you are just foaming at the mouth.


From Encarta:-

Zionism = Worlwide movement, originating in the 19th century, that sought to establish and develop a Jewish nation in Palestine. Since 1948 its function has been to support the state of Israel.

Hope this helps

Just pointing out that your population numbers were wrong when you stated that there were 295 million people.

As to questioning 300 Million people waiting for a hospital bed, I think what he means is that there are 300 million people who could be waiting for a bed. He is not saying that all of us are waiting for bed but that we all could be waiting a long time for a bed if we had a similiar system like Canada's. Why do you think several Canadians come across the border for treatment?

guess what we've had Americans come across the border for treatment too(I don't what their reasons were) plus our drug companies are making billions from drug sales to Americans and I know the reason, our drugs cost less.....the stories of hoards of Canadians seeking treatment are a myth, it does happen but they are few.....

and if you paid attention to the discussion, waiting times for beds here are also myth, there are no wait times for ER cases only elective procedures.....americans also have wait times for elective surgery's and americans without private insurance(45 million) may never get their surgery where as a Canadian with Medicare always will....

now this links business from american sites, unless it comes from a organization with no interest in profit it's motives will be suspect.....the overwhelming majority of US web sites making claims of inefficiency of Canadian Medicare are backed by private insurance and private hospitals, they will always be biased they are not going to advocate any system that will put them out of business......websites supporting public care however are not in it for profit, only to promote better health, they have no hidden agenda($$$$).....

Just this one time only will I post a link....a very unbiased link IMO from an American site the AMSA http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:YC_ag9J6Oc8J:www.amsa.org/studytours/WaitingTimes_primer.pdf+wait+times+for+elective+surgery+in+the+usa&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=firefox-a

Just this one time only will I post a link....a very unbiased link IMO from an American site the AMSA http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:YC_ag9J6Oc8J:www.amsa.org/studytours/WaitingTimes_primer.pdf+wait+times+for+elective+surgery+in+the+usa&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=firefox-a

1) This is apprently done by student As the AMSA stands for the American Medical STUDENT Assocciation. Seems that most of their number are students.

2) Looking at the list, this is what I find in Manitoba it states that waiting for a CT scan can be as low as 3 weeks to as high as 18 weeks. For British Columbia, the waiting time depends on the type of surgery that is needed. Some of this surgery can be considered elective but some are not.

3) I can go on to waiting time to see a specialist from the Physicians perspective. I take it you did not read this report?

In all, it is a very nice article and I thank you for providing it.

1) This is apprently done by student As the AMSA stands for the American Medical STUDENT Assocciation. Seems that most of their number are students.

2) Looking at the list, this is what I find in Manitoba it states that waiting for a CT scan can be as low as 3 weeks to as high as 18 weeks. For British Columbia, the waiting time depends on the type of surgery that is needed. Some of this surgery can be considered elective but some are not.

3) I can go on to waiting time to see a specialist from the Physicians perspective. I take it you did not read this report?

In all, it is a very nice article and I thank you for providing it.

1-students, well here and I assume in the USA med students already have a degree, and generally most of the world's great discoveries were accomplished by people under the age of 35, so age isn't a factor....I have a three friends who were also technically med-students, but they were full doctors specializing(two orthos and cardiologist)

2-There geographic considerations as posted earlier, population densities, neighborhoods etc. In a city I used to live in there were 3 hospitals, the ERs in two service was very quick(few patients) the 3rd hospital was in a low income,high crime area, the ER was always busy with beating victims.
-surgery's anywhere even the USA are limited to how many specialists there are and how many people are seeking treatment, because of an aging population hip replacement Drs here are swamped with cases, an elderly hip patients can be hospitalized for months tying up beds so the wait for the next patient is expected...


3-I read most of it, I read enough to assure myself that it was an unbiased "these are the facts as we know them at this time" type of report. It doesn't try to hide anything for one side or the other, it just stated what is known.... other than the survey details listed I didn't come across anything that surprised me.

1-students, well here and I assume in the USA med students already have a degree,

Not necessarily unless they are in graduate school.

2-There geographic considerations as posted earlier, population densities, neighborhoods etc. In a city I used to live in there were 3 hospitals, the ERs in two service was very quick(few patients) the 3rd hospital was in a low income,high crime area, the ER was always busy with beating victims.

Even the ERs in the United States can not turn down a patient in need of care. I know that first hand.

-surgery's anywhere even the USA are limited to how many specialists there are and how many people are seeking treatment, because of an aging population hip replacement Drs here are swamped with cases, an elderly hip patients can be hospitalized for months tying up beds so the wait for the next patient is expected...

Probably the same here though I have not looked at the numbers.

3-I read most of it, I read enough to assure myself that it was an unbiased "these are the facts as we know them at this time" type of report. It doesn't try to hide anything for one side or the other, it just stated what is known.... other than the survey details listed I didn't come across anything that surprised me.

Which is why I said thanks for the information. It is full of it. See, if you post links more often, your arguments will care more weight :)

Even the ERs in the United States can not turn down a patient in need of care. I know that first hand.

Which is why I said thanks for the information. It is full of it. See, if you post links more often, your arguments will care more weight :)

-never meant to imply that hospitals turn away patients...no one is turned away here they are free to go to any hospital but there are "appropriate" hospitals(hospitals that specialize ER Trauma, Ortho, Maternity), ....

links-I still don't like them, too often they have an agenda and even if they true the evidence will be discounted by the other party.....and I still believe if someone is honest about seeking the truth they should do their own search....

***patients turned away by doctor***our system isn't perfect-my daughter, it almost cost her live was seriously ill and we took her to the nearest DR, a private clinic, he refused to see her because we didn't have an appointment and his specialty was sports med, we took her to another clinic and they told us to get her to an ER now! She recovered after a week in hospital, I've hated private clinics ever since....Dr in question later received a severe reprimand from Med Association for denying treatment in an emergency.

-never meant to imply that hospitals turn away patients...no one is turned away here they are free to go to any hospital but there are "appropriate" hospitals(hospitals that specialize ER Trauma, Ortho, Maternity), ....

Some of our hospitals are the same when it comes to Specialization. Some, like the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center(with several campuses across the metropalitan area) seem to do everything.

links-I still don't like them, too often they have an agenda and even if they true the evidence will be discounted by the other party.....

No argument here but at least it gives people an understanding of where you are coming from. I'm with you on the links but once in a while, I find it useful to provide them.

and I still believe if someone is honest about seeking the truth they should do their own search....

And right now, I'm in a non-research mode since Saturday when school ended. Give me a few more days and maybe I'll be back into a research mode.

links-I still don't like them, too often they have an agenda and even if they true the evidence will be discounted by the other party.....and I still believe if someone is honest about seeking the truth they should do their own search....

Then i sure hope you are not in classes/school, because without sources/links you are not doing a good job debating and proving your point.