NationStates Jolt Archive

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has opened a conference questioning the Holocaust.

The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust was opened Tuesday 11/12/2006 in Tehran, Iran, by President Ahmadinejad to question the extent of the Holocaust. The Iranian Foreign Ministry has stated the conference:

"...seeks neither to deny or prove the Holocaust. It is just to provide an appropriate scientific atmosphere for scholars to offer their opinions in freedom about a historical issue."

Questioning the extent of the Holocaust is considered Holocaust denial and is illegal in twelve European countries including France, Germany, Austria and Poland.

Among the "honoured" guest list is David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan leader, Georges Thiel, convicted of Holocaust denial in France, and finally Fredrick Töben of Australia who had been imprisoned in Germany for three months in 1999 for Holocaust denial.

An Israeli Arab lawyer who had previously been invited to attend the event has been denied entrance, as Iran does not permit Visa's to Israeli's.


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/11372A84-1E7B-400C-9B16-298CDDBDC5CD.htm

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has opened a conference questioning the Holocaust.

The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust was opened Tuesday 11/12/2006 in Tehran, Iran, by President Ahmadinejad to question the extent of the Holocaust. The Iranian Foreign Ministry has stated the conference:



Questioning the extent of the Holocaust is considered Holocaust denial and is illegal in twelve European countries including France, Germany, Austria and Poland.

Among the "honoured" guest list is David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan leader, Georges Thiel, convicted of Holocaust denial in France, and finally Fredrick Töben of Australia who had been imprisoned in Germany for three months in 1999 for Holocaust denial.

An Israeli Arab lawyer who had previously been invited to attend the event has been denied entrance, as Iran does not permit Visa's to Israeli's.


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/11372A84-1E7B-400C-9B16-298CDDBDC5CD.htm

while I think it's silly denying the events of WW2, I think it's silly denying people the right to have silly beliefs...and if they want to discuss it amongst themselves so what, it's not like they are going to change history.......throwing people in jail for erroneous beliefs is a bit heavy handed....

while I think it's silly denying the events of WW2, I think it's silly denying people the right to have silly beliefs...and if they want to discuss it amongst themselves so what, it's not like they are going to change history.......throwing people in jail for erroneous beliefs is a bit heavy handed....

agreed I’m a little surprised at France myself…

Much as I hate to agree, yeah, putting people in jail for opinions is wrong.

Much as I hate to agree, yeah, putting people in jail for opinions is wrong.

Agreed. Jailing them only gives them publicity they don't deserve.

I do see it as being obviously provocative, especially considering the Iranian President's previous comments regarding Israel. But, I accept their right to discuss it however much people may not like what they are discussing.

It is probably true that the Holocaust is just a lie concocted by the Jews to acquire a state of their own. On the other hand, they are better than the Iranians, Palestinians, Lebanese, etc., so I'd have to side with them during this conference.

It is probably true that the Holocaust is just a lie concocted by the Jews

and with all the overwhelming evidence too.

It's amazing what a conspiracy us jews can put together when we really put our minds to it.

I'm fairly certain that there was an earlier thread on this topic.
It is probably true that the Holocaust is just a lie concocted by the Jews to acquire a state of their own. On the other hand, they are better than the Iranians, Palestinians, Lebanese, etc., so I'd have to side with them during this conference.
Good for you. :rolleyes:

and with all the overwhelming evidence too.

All the alleged "evidence" was fabricated, and it was gobbled up by the Zionists in America and elsewhere because they needed an object for their pity to justify their decision to go to war against the Nazis.

Agreed. Jailing them only gives them publicity they don't deserve.Who is Zündel? I haven't heard anything about him lately.

All the alleged "evidence" was fabricated, and it was gobbled up by the Zionists in America and elsewhere because they needed an object for their pity to justify their decision to go to war against the Nazis.

Erm ... Germany declared war on the US, not the other way around.

All the alleged "evidence" was fabricated, and it was gobbled up by the Zionists in America and elsewhere because they needed an object for their pity to justify their decision to go to war against the Nazis.www.ghwk.de
Read the second paragraph. It's in English.

The protocols are available in multiple languages. The German protocol link also has PDF versions of the original documents which can still be seen in the house of the Wannsee Conference today.

www.ghwk.de
Read the second paragraph. It's in English.

All it says is that some German leaders met there to plan the implementation of the final solution to the Jewish problem. However, I do not see a shred of evidence to support the assertion that there was any such "solution."

All the alleged "evidence" was fabricated, and it was gobbled up by the Zionists in America and elsewhere because they needed an object for their pity to justify their decision to go to war against the Nazis.

the big problem with that is....the extent of the holocaust wasn't known until AFTER american soldiers were involved in the war and started liberating the concentration camps.

All it says is that some German leaders met there to plan the implementation of the final solution to the Jewish problem. However, I do not see a shred of evidence to support the assertion that there was any such "solution."

other than...oh I dunno...the testimony of german officers during war crime trials?

Erm ... Germany declared war on the US, not the other way around.

So you're saying that the US never declared war on Germany? If so, you're severely mistaken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war

I do see it as being obviously provocative, especially considering the Iranian President's previous comments regarding Israel. But, I accept their right to discuss it however much people may not like what they are discussing.

I've heard different versions of the quotes from the Iranian President so I'm beginning to wonder if they are accidental mistranslations or deliberate

when I first heard him speak of the Holocaust the version I heard was that he didn't think it was wrong to discuss it because he said it was being used to justify the creation of Israel, he didn't deny it happened....two days later the story was changed to say that he said the holocaust never happened...but that was definitely not what was said at first

then there was the "wipe Israel of the map" quote, was that an accurate quote? or just what someone wanted to hear? Now I hear a different version, which implies the elimination of Zionism(Israel) not Jews. There is a considerable difference between wanting the entity of Israel removed and eliminating the people of Israel.

I don't speak Farsi so I have no idea if the translations are accurate or we are being sold a pile of crap....

:rolleyes: other than...oh I dunno...the testimony of german officers during war crime trials?

Yeah, sure. All politicians lie, except Nazi ones. :rolleyes:

So you're saying that the US never declared war on Germany? If so, you're severely mistaken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war

From the very article you linked, "On the 11th, Hitler and Mussolini had already declared war on the USA before Congress declared war on them." Just cleaning up the paperwork, I suppose.

the big problem with that is....the extent of the holocaust wasn't known until AFTER american soldiers were involved in the war and started liberating the concentration camps.

Exactly. After the war was over, they felt sorry that they had completely annihilated an entire country. To justify their actions, they gobbled up the Jewish propaganda claiming that they had been victimized severely by the Germans.

All it says is that some German leaders met there to plan the implementation of the final solution to the Jewish problem. However, I do not see a shred of evidence to support the assertion that there was any such "solution."Of course not. That's what we have eyewitness accounts and other documents for. This just punches a hole in the argument that the extermination wasn't planned.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, sure. All politicians lie, except Nazi ones. :rolleyes:

I didn't say politicians, I said officers. And it's interesting. You demand evidence, yet refuse the documentation detailing the holocaust, sworn testimony of jews who were subjected to the camps, and sworn testimony of military officers who carried it out.

So exactly what kind of evidence are you looking for here? A videotape of hitler going "yes I killed 6 million jews"?

Because from where I stand, original documentation, eye witness corroboration, and the confession of the person who did it, is pretty fucking solid evidence.

So you're saying that the US never declared war on Germany? If so, you're severely mistaken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war
No, merely saying that Germany declared war first.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, sure. All politicians lie, except Nazi ones. :rolleyes:

They weren't politicians, they were soldiers, the ones who actually were garrisoned at the death camps.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, sure. All politicians lie, except Nazi ones. :rolleyes:You didn't note the "Geheime Reichssache" at the top of the documents, did you? They didn't tell anyone about this, these are the classified protocols of the conference. They never told the public about this.

Of course not. That's what we have eyewitness accounts and other documents for. This just punches a hole in the argument that the extermination wasn't planned.

The eyewitnesses lied because they had something to gain from the dissemination of falsities. The documents could have easily been forged. The extermination was certainly not planned, and no such meeting occurred at that particular house where that topic was discussed. That site has no proof with which to back up their assertion that such a nefarious dialogue occurred.

Exactly. After the war was over, they felt sorry that they had completely annihilated an entire country. To justify their actions, they gobbled up the Jewish propaganda claiming that they had been victimized severely by the Germans.

Prove any of your statements. Racist bastard. I really hate Ahmedinejad and I despise the fact that he represents my country. The Americans think theyve got leadership problems?

The eyewitnesses lied because they had something to gain from the dissemination of falsities. The documents could have easily been forged. The extermination was certainly not planned, and no such meeting occurred at that particular house where that topic was discussed. That site has no proof with which to back up their assertion that such a nefarious dialogue occurred.

How did the german officers gain anything from "I killed a bunch of Jews"

Exactly. After the war was over, they felt sorry that they had completely annihilated an entire country. To justify their actions, they gobbled up the Jewish propaganda claiming that they had been victimized severely by the Germans.

you actually think that the united states needed the holocaust to justify the war against germany?

My vote is for Mr. Duke. Can we make a new law to refuse to let him back in? He can stay there forever, along with the rest of them.

They weren't politicians, they were soldiers, the ones who actually were garrisoned at the death camps.

Either way, they were probably coerced into stating something like that by the US or the USSR because the Jews persuaded the resepective governments to concoct a plausible reason for creating an Israeli state. Defeated German soldiers had no leverage; to the victor belong the spoils. They were forced to lie, or perhaps gained a monetary advantage because of doing so. Maybe they were given preferential status. Who knows? The Allies had an arsenal of tactics at their disposal.

the conference is a shining example of free speech. It gave a chance for people to get all the facts out on the table.

The eyewitnesses lied because they had something to gain from the dissemination of falsities. The documents could have easily been forged. The extermination was certainly not planned, and no such meeting occurred at that particular house where that topic was discussed. That site has no proof with which to back up their assertion that such a nefarious dialogue occurred.

as I said, what exact standard of proof do you want, because eyewitness testimony, documentation, and confession is pretty much proof in any civilized court.

you actually think that the united states needed the holocaust to justify the war against germany?

Yes. We should have either stayed out of the war completely or been allied with Germany.

the conference is a shining example of free speech. It gave a chance for people to get all the facts out on the table.

The facts have been on the table for about 60 years. If this conference was instead about...oh let's say...why Mohammed was a schizophrenic pathological liar, and sought to present evidence of that, you wouldn't be so damned quick to defend it.

Your particular viewpoint is well known, and thus you really don't have anything impartial or reasonable to bring to this discussion

The eyewitnesses lied because they had something to gain from the dissemination of falsities. The documents could have easily been forged. The extermination was certainly not planned, and no such meeting occurred at that particular house where that topic was discussed. That site has no proof with which to back up their assertion that such a nefarious dialogue occurred.You are a chipmunk with exceptional dexterity tapping away on a keyboard. Try and disprove that.

Or try and prove that all the witnesses lied (the millions of them). Surely you have witness accounts and tax records to show that they had something to gain.
Prove that these and other documents (the uncountable stacks) were forged. You know, testing the paper, the ink, and produce witnesses that did the forging.
Prove that the people mentioned as present in the protocol were not present. I'm sure you have eye-witness accounts that said people were not there, since they were skiing in the alps on that day, or busy in the office, or off on a picnic with their families.

You don't? Shame, really.

Becaus of course, unwarranted evil aggression and racism is the american way. You would probably lead m country almost as well as our current leader.

Yes. We should have either stayed out of the war completely or been allied with Germany.

because, even ignoring the mass murder thing, it's a good thing for america to be alligned with a fascist murderous dictator?

as I said, what exact standard of proof do you want, because eyewitness testimony, documentation, and confession is pretty much proof in any civilized court.

What if those testifying have a vested interest to lie? What if the documentation was forged? What if the confession was coerced? The poor Germans were helpless against the harsh tactics of the Allies and eventually had to bow down and swear that something happened which really didn't. Don't get me wrong though; I'd much rather have the Jews in charge of Israel than the Palestinians.

the conference is a shining example of free speech. It gave a chance for people to get all the facts out on the table.No it didn't. They made sure that people who thought the holocaust was real were unable to attend, such as that arab lawyer in Nazareth that runs a holocaust museum and has written a book about it. He was denied entry on grounds that he has an israeli passport, although he is clearly pro palestinian.

Either way, they were probably coerced into stating something like that by the US or the USSR because the Jews persuaded the resepective governments to concoct a plausible reason for creating an Israeli state. Defeated German soldiers had no leverage; to the victor belong the spoils. They were forced to lie, or perhaps gained a monetary advantage because of doing so. Maybe they were given preferential status. Who knows? The Allies had an arsenal of tactics at their disposal.

Stalin was acting on behalf of a giant Jewish conspiracy? :rolleyes:

because, even ignoring the mass murder thing, it's a good thing for america to be alligned with a fascist murderous dictator?

I believe that Hitler was a good Christian. That is in stark opposition to the Stalin, to whom we were actually allied.

What if those testifying have a vested interest to lie? What if the documentation was forged? What if the confession was coerced? The poor Germans were helpless against the harsh tactics of the Allies and eventually had to bow down and swear that something happened which really didn't. Don't get me wrong though; I'd much rather have the Jews in charge of Israel than the Palestinians.

What if the sk is purple? What if we are all living in the dream of a butterfly? What if im really a lost princess? You are racist against both Jews and Arabs. Congragulations. (BTW Iranians are aryan by race. Idiot)

What if those testifying have a vested interest to lie? What if the documentation was forged? What if the confession was coerced? The poor Germans were helpless against the harsh tactics of the Allies and eventually had to bow down and swear that something happened which really didn't. Don't get me wrong though; I'd much rather have the Jews in charge of Israel than the Palestinians.

Ah, now it's "what if?"

You don't? Shame, really.

I don't have proof, and neither do you; you cannot prove the inverse of your statements. I guess we'll call it a draw and think what we want.

the conference is a shining example of free speech. It gave a chance for people to get all the facts out on the table.

FREE SPEECH!!!! You obviously know nothing at all about Iran.

What if those testifying have a vested interest to lie? What if the documentation was forged? What if the confession was coerced?

the proof has been presented, if you believe it to be false, it is your burden to refute it.

Saying there has been no evidence is an outright lie, there's MOUNTAINS of evidence, far more than is needed for conviction in any criminal court where the word "justice' has any meaning what so ever.

If you believe the evidence to be a lie, present your way of refuting it, but you can't. You have taken mountains of evidence, thrown out a series of extremely suspect and highly improbable "what ifs" and acted like that meant something.

What you are doing is logically akin to saying "what if we're all, in fact, in the matrix and NONE of it is real? Then it certainly never happened, right?" which, while POSSIBLE, is so far beyond the realm of probable to be for all factual purposes disregarded.

You think the evidence is wrong? Prove it, bitch.

I don't have proof, and neither do you; you cannot prove the inverse of your statements. I guess we'll call it a draw and think what we want.

We have proof. You are asking What if our proof is wrong. You can ask that queston about literally anything. What if you are actually Elvis Presley?

It wasn't free speech millions paid the ultmiate price for you to say that. More like free lies and propaganda from an obviously hateful crowd.

The facts have been on the table for about 60 years.

Oh yeah? if thats true why is the west so afraid anyone questioning it that when they do they throw them in prison? The fact is the facts the west want to be known have been out for 60 years, not all the facts.

If this conference was instead about...oh let's say...why Mohammed was a schizophrenic pathological liar, and sought to present evidence of that, you wouldn't be so damned quick to defend it.
why do you have to bring my faith into this? is that necessary?

I don't have proof, and neither do you; you cannot prove the inverse of your statements. I guess we'll call it a draw and think what we want.

I do have proof. I have documentation, eye witness testimony, and confession. None of which has, in any way, been indicated to be false. That meets any reasonable standard of proof you can bring.

I know there's freedom of speech and all that, but a gathering of Holocaust deniers hosted by an antisemetic president who didn't allow an Israeli to attend because of his religion and/or nationality doesn't really seem like it's giving the opposing side a fair chance. And hi Neima.

You are racist against both Jews and Arabs.

I don't bear a grudge against them as a race; however, I feel pity for them because they have not accepted the word of Jesus and are sinners.

Oh yeah? if thats true why is the west so afraid anyone questioning it that when they do they throw them in prison? The fact is the facts the west want to be known have been out for 60 years, not all the facts.

why do you have to bring my faith into this? is that necessary?

I am Iranian and I will have you know that free speech is NOWHERE on ahmageenejads (Those you speak farsi and can read english phonetically will know why I misspelled that) agenda.

You think the evidence is wrong? Prove it, bitch.

One man cannot refute a massive, decades-old conspiracy. I simply lack the resources. Similarly, you cannot prove that there was a Caligula by yourself, starting from scratch. That does not mean that there was no Caligula, however.

No it didn't. They made sure that people who thought the holocaust was real were unable to attend, such as that arab lawyer in Nazareth that runs a holocaust museum and has written a book about it. He was denied entry on grounds that he has an israeli passport, although he is clearly pro palestinian.

it doesn't matter. Israelis do not belong in Iran. I don't think this is proof of Iran denying pro-holocuast people from attending. Hell, they even had a few jews attend the conference.

I don't bear a grudge against them as a race; however, I feel pity for them because they have not accepted the word of Jesus and are sinners.

I feel pity for you because you have not accepted the word of God and are a sinner. I'm God by the way. Bow down.

Becaus of course, unwarranted evil aggression and racism is the american way. You would probably lead m country almost as well as our current leader.

*claps*

What if the sk is purple? What if we are all living in the dream of a butterfly? What if im really a lost princess? You are racist against both Jews and Arabs. Congragulations. (BTW Iranians are aryan by race. Idiot)

all hail the true aryan race! :)

*claps some more*

What if those testifying have a vested interest to lie? What if the documentation was forged? What if the confession was coerced? There were too many for that. The idea that the mountains of evidence are false is just... idiotic. Faking something like that, why the heck would they bother building all the camps, making all the gates, forging the uncountable amount of documents and witness reports, the sketches, the diaries, the pictures, everything? It's so comprehensive that the statement that it's all, and I mean ALL, fake is an indicator of extreme denial.
The poor Germans were helpless against the harsh tactics of the Allies and eventually had to bow down and swear that something happened which really didn't. Bullshit. If they were so helpless, why did most of the guys they had on trial at Nuremberg never admit it?

Oh yeah? if thats true why is the west so afraid anyone questioning it that when they do they throw them in prison? The fact is the facts the west want to be known have been out for 60 years, not all the facts.

why do you have to bring my faith into this? is that necessary?

The countries that prosecute Holocaust deniers are the countries in which the Holocaust occurred, so they're a little touchy about the subject.

Without bringing your faith into it, then, what are the Facts?

One man cannot refute a massive, decades-old conspiracy. I simply lack the resources. Similarly, you cannot prove that there was a Caligula by yourself, starting from scratch. That does not mean that there was no Caligula, however.

There is absolutley no evidence that the proof is incorrect

Oh yeah? if thats true why is the west so afraid anyone questioning it that when they do they throw them in prison?

It's not fear, it's simply a recognition that this is truth, it is fact. Likewise any attempt to claim otherwise, is a falsehood. And spreading falsehoods is defamation, and defamation is illegal in plenty of places.

That being said they should have the right to say it. They're still wrong.

why do you have to bring my faith into this? is that necessary?

It is absolutly necessary. The true measure of a man's commitment to free speech is the commitment for individuals to get up and decry everything that he holds sacred. You are either committed to free speech, or you are not. If you are, then you are committed to it whole hog, even when it runs in direct conflict to your most sacred beliefs.

So answer the question, would you be equally in favor of a meeting that discussed the facts surrounding the possibility that Mohammed was, in fact, a psychotic, patholigical liar?

I don't have proof, and neither do you; Yes I do. I showed you the documents. Now you have to prove them wrong to support your case.

Oh yeah? if thats true why is the west so afraid anyone questioning it that when they do they throw them in prison? The fact is the facts the west want to be known have been out for 60 years, not all the facts.

The US doesn't imprison people for denying the Holocaust. And even today, people involved in the Holocaust have confessed its existencs.

*claps*



all hail the true aryan race! :)

*claps some more*

Thank you thank you *bows

One man cannot refute a massive, decades-old conspiracy. I simply lack the resources. Similarly, you cannot prove that there was a Caligula by yourself, starting from scratch. That does not mean that there was no Caligula, however.

Sure I can prove there was a Gaius Caligula (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=gaius+caligula) (just not the bulldog in the lower left corner of the first page of images).

I know there's freedom of speech and all that, but a gathering of Holocaust deniers hosted by an antisemetic president who didn't allow an Israeli to attend because of his religion and/or nationality doesn't really seem like it's giving the opposing side a fair chance. And hi Neima.

there were jews there. anti-israel ones(there the good ones).

One man cannot refute a massive, decades-old conspiracy. I simply lack the resources. Similarly, you cannot prove that there was a Caligula by yourself, starting from scratch. That does not mean that there was no Caligula, however.

I can, however, go look up all the records that indicate his existance.

Do you have anything, ANYTHING actually solid on your side? Anything not "well they could be lying?"

I do have proof. I have documentation, eye witness testimony, and confession. None of which has, in any way, been indicated to be false. That meets any reasonable standard of proof you can bring.

I told you already why I refuse to believe in the veracity of that evidence. Those eye-witnesses had either a vested interest to lie or could have easily been coerced or manipulated into doing so. The documentation could easily have been forged. The confessions could have similarly be forced. In fact, many Nazi leaders committed suicide because they felt that they would be tortured by the Allies, possibly into giving false testimony.

None are so blind as those who will not see...

Pure and simple hate aimed at provoking

I know there's freedom of speech and all that, but a gathering of Holocaust deniers hosted by an antisemetic president who didn't allow an Israeli to attend because of his religion and/or nationality doesn't really seem like it's giving the opposing side a fair chance. And hi Neima.You mean the muslim palestinian with an israeli passport? More his stance that the holocaust is real; the nationality reason is just a cover.

I told you already why I refuse to believe in the veracity of that evidence. Those eye-witnesses had either a vested interest to lie or could have easily been coerced or manipulated into doing so. The documentation could easily have been forged. The confessions could have similarly be forced. In fact, many Nazi leaders committed suicide because they felt that they would be tortured by the Allies, possibly into giving false testimony.

do you have any evidence to suggest any of that occured?

why the heck would they bother building all the camps

They built labor camps so that forced deportees, political prisoners, gypsies, etc., could make a valid contribution to the war effort rather than actively undermining it.

making all the gates

So nobody could escape, Sherlock.

forging the uncountable amount of documents and witness reports

I believe that the Allies were quite literate, and the Jews especially so. They created the preponderance of documentation so that people would feel sympathy for the Jews and allow them to erect their own state in the Middle East.

For the remainder of this arguement, I'm just gonna ignore RuleCaucasia, because he doesn't really believe anything he's saying. Like Jesussaves, and The Redemption Army, and etc. This could even be the same person.

For the remainder of this arguement, I'm just gonna ignore RuleCaucasia, because he doesn't really believe anything he's saying. Like Jesussaves, and The Redemption Army, and etc. This could even be the same person.

Scary part is, I think he does believe it.

do you have any evidence to suggest any of that occured?

Do you have any proof that any of that didn't occur? We appear to be at a deadlock.

The countries that prosecute Holocaust deniers are the countries in which the Holocaust occurred, so they're a little touchy about the subject.
and in doing so restrict free speech to a great degree

Without bringing your faith into it, then, what are the Facts?

The facts are the jews have benefitted greatly since and because of the holocuast and the extent and severity of the holocaust is not well known and could be greatly exaggrated(sp?) however do to laws preventing research into it, the west may never know to what degree.

Nazi leaders committed suicide because they felt that they would be tortured by the Allies, possibly into giving false testimony.

Himmler, Hitler, Goebbels and Goering committed suicide because they didn't want to go through the shame of a trial and rotting in prison for the rest of their lives.

I told you already why I refuse to believe in the veracity of that evidence. You have failed to provide a plausible reason for this.
Those eye-witnesses had either a vested interest to lie or could have easily been coerced or manipulated into doing so. Same goes for the Nazis claiming they didn't do it. They had a very big interest in not being found guilty of their crimes.
The documentation could easily have been forged. Not the massive amounts.
The confessions could have similarly be forced. If all confessions were forced, there would have been instances of people not giving in. In fact, many did. Most of the Nazis on trial in Nuremberg didn't admit to anything.
In fact, many Nazi leaders committed suicide because they felt that they would be tortured by the Allies, possibly into giving false testimony.In fact, the Nazi leaders on trial in Nuremberg weren't tortured and didn't give in to the allies, thus not providing true testimony.

All you have is "The evidence is false because I don't want to believe it." You have nothing supporting your claims.

Do you have any proof that any of that didn't occur? We appear to be at a deadlock.

except evidence doesn't go that way. I have it. Its existance, lacking any legitimate reason to suspect its legitimacy, is its own validation.

I ask myself only "would a court accept this". If yes, as is here, then that's sufficiency of evidence.

There is no such thing as 100% certain. There is however "certain to a high degree of probability" which is what this is. If you wish to make it seem more speculative, you must cast in greater speculation, which you have not done.

For the remainder of this arguement, I'm just gonna ignore RuleCaucasia, because he doesn't really believe anything he's saying. Like Jesussaves, and The Redemption Army, and etc. This could even be the same person.

I believe that you desperately want to hold on to your puerile notion that the Nazis were evil, inhuman monsters who preyed on the Jews. You are so determined that this is the truth that you are unwilling to question the objective facts. The Jews wanted an independent state, and being victims of a genocide would be an excellent way in which to attain this goal. It does take much to put "two" and "two" together.

Himmler, Hitler, Goebbels and Goering committed suicide because they didn't want to go through the shame of a trial and rotting in prison for the rest of their lives.I doubt Göring thought he was going to get a life sentence after he'd been sentenced to hang.

Scary part is, I think he does believe it.

He might, but he's trying to come up with a conspiracy theory to prove his point. While he's arguing. I'm not gonna waste my time fighting with somebody doing that.

It is absolutly necessary. The true measure of a man's commitment to free speech is the commitment for individuals to get up and decry everything that he holds sacred. You are either committed to free speech, or you are not. If you are, then you are committed to it whole hog, even when it runs in direct conflict to your most sacred beliefs.

So answer the question, would you be equally in favor of a meeting that discussed the facts surrounding the possibility that Mohammed was, in fact, a psychotic, patholigical liar?

no, that is deeply wrong. You can claim I don't support free speech all you like, but I can't turn my back on my principles.

The facts are the jews have benefitted greatly since and because of the holocuast and the extent and severity of the holocaust is not well known and could be greatly exaggrated(sp?) however do to laws preventing research into it, the west may never know to what degree.

a handfull of countries does not make "the west", in America and most european countries it is perfectly legal to deny the holocaust to your heart's content.

I believe that you desperately want to hold on to your puerile notion that the Nazis were evil, inhuman monsters who preyed on the Jews. The jews constituted the majority of the victims, yes, but they weren't the only ones.
You are so determined that this is the truth that you are unwilling to question the objective facts. Which objective facts?
The Jews wanted an independent state, and being victims of a genocide would be an excellent way in which to attain this goal. It does take much to put "two" and "two" together.Wow! Did you know that the British were going to give the Jews such land long before the holocaust? And if the Zionists abused the holocaust for their political goals, why would that mean it never happened?

no, that is deeply wrong. You can claim I don't support free speech all you like, but I can't turn my back on my principles.

so you would not support the right of a group of people to get together and talk about why islam might be wrong?

You only want people talking about things that you don't disagree with. Then, frankly, you don't support free speech. You've told me all I needed to know, you support a group of holocaust deniers but would not support a group of Islam deniers.

and in doing so restrict free speech to a great degree

Yes they do and one might wish they didn't but still see the resaon for it.

The facts are the jews have benefitted greatly since and because of the holocuast and the extent and severity of the holocaust is not well known and could be greatly exaggrated(sp?) however do to laws preventing research into it, the west may never know to what degree.
It's not illegal in the United States to research the Holocaust. Whatever you may say about the Nazis, they kept meticulous records of what they were doing, ad those are available, for the most part. No, my friend, you choose to deny the evidence before you because it suits you to do so.

Do you have any proof that any of that didn't occur? We appear to be at a deadlock.Do you have any proof that you are, in fact, not a very dextrous chipmunk?

There are still artifacts made out human body parts. They have films of people by the hundreds being bulldozed into a mass graves. You can still smell to this day. If you look hard enough you can probably find all the names because the Germans were remarkedly good record keepers.

I doubt Göring thought he was going to get a life sentence after he'd been sentenced to hang.

Well then he died with dignity, not like a common criminal.

The jews constituted the majority of the victims, yes, but they weren't the only ones.


no. russians.

The facts are the jews have benefitted greatly since and because of the holocuast and the extent and severity of the holocaust is not well known and could be greatly exaggrated(sp?) however do to laws preventing research into it, the west may never know to what degree.What? You're allowed to do research into the holocaust as much as you want in Germany. You might get into trouble if you publish that it never happened, although not for thinking it didn't, or attempting to support that thesis with legitimate research. If any criticism of the holocaust was illegal, they wouldn't be reviewing the former GDR exhibits on grounds that they were manipulated.

You have failed to provide a plausible reason for this.

The Jews wanted their own state, so they would desperately try to come up with a situation in which they would be guaranteed one. A genocide would certainly be one such situation.

Same goes for the Nazis claiming they didn't do it. They had a very big interest in not being found guilty of their crimes.

Indeed, and many did not comply with the Allies' request to confess to their crimes. However, some did. Why? Out of their own guilt? Hardly. They were most likely coerced into doing so.

Not the massive amounts.

It couldn't possibly take that long. The Germans allegedly were able to do so iin 6 years, not working continuously, and only employing a small percentage of the soldiers and/or officers in the army. With a determined Jewish effort, the process could be completed quite rapidly. Furthermore, if such documents were produced, why were they not burned as the Reich crumbled in upon itself?

If all confessions were forced, there would have been instances of people not giving in. In fact, many did. Most of the Nazis on trial in Nuremberg didn't admit to anything.

Luckily for the Allies, they did not need to coerce all of the Nazis to confess; indeed, if they had done so, it would not have been very plausible. The weaker ones collapsed first and they were the ones put on trial.

But he died. Dignity doesn't matter.

Well then he died with dignity, not like a common criminal.

Yeah, cyanide's such a dignified death.

Yes. We should have either stayed out of the war completely or been allied with Germany.

At least when you're dealing with someone denying the holocaust because they're a complete racist you've got some kind of logic going. But I'd LOVE to know the thinking behind this.

Germany under a (anti-american btw) dictator just starts invading its neighbours for no reason other than to feed Hitler's twisted lust for German glory, let's help!

Do you have any proof that you are, in fact, not a very dextrous chipmunk?

No, I do not. However, you can draw a logical inference that I am not because I am typing very coherent sentences, an act which chipmunks are incapable of adequately doing.

What is it about these forums that attracts Nazis?

I told you already why I refuse to believe in the veracity of that evidence. Those eye-witnesses had either a vested interest to lie or could have easily been coerced or manipulated into doing so. The documentation could easily have been forged. The confessions could have similarly be forced. In fact, many Nazi leaders committed suicide because they felt that they would be tortured by the Allies, possibly into giving false testimony.

No evidence right... I'll just ignore the man I know who happens to have a number branded onto his arm. However, it is their right to hold whatever kind of conference they want( we dont have to listen to them after all). I do wish they would allow an opposing viewpoint though.

No, I do not. However, you can draw a logical inference that I am not because I am typing very coherent sentences, an act which chipmunks are incapable of adequately doing.

Prove that.

At least when you're dealing with someone denying the holocaust because they're a complete racist you've got some kind of logic going. But I'd LOVE to know the thinking behind this.

Germany under a (anti-american btw) dictator just starts invading its neighbours for no reason other than to feed Hitler's twisted lust for German glory, let's help!

And anyway, after Germany's ally Japan attacked the US, that treaty with Berlin would have been a little hard to get ratified.

Germany under a (anti-american btw) dictator just starts invading its neighbours for no reason other than to feed Hitler's twisted lust for German glory, let's help!

Germany was a very modernized country with a well-functioning economy. That was more than could be said for the Soviet Union, with whom we were eventually allied.

No, I do not. However, you can draw a logical inference that I am not because I am typing very coherent sentences, an act which chipmunks are incapable of adequately doing.

have you checked every chipmunk? Maybe it's a conspiracy to keep the intelligent chipmunk's hidden.

Prove that.

Prove what? That chipmunks are incapable of writing coherent sentences? You have to be joking.

The Jews wanted their own state, so they would desperately try to come up with a situation in which they would be guaranteed one. A genocide would certainly be one such situation.This only means that it came in handy, not that it didn't happen.
Indeed, and many did not comply with the Allies' request to confess to their crimes. However, some did. Why? Out of their own guilt? Hardly. They were most likely coerced into doing so.Very few ardent Nazis did. Some may have been coerced, some may have discovered they had a conscience. The men of the 20th of July, for instance, show that there was still some honor left in the German elite. Others may have noticed the futility of continuing to lie, considering that there were a lot more survivors alive then than there are today.
It couldn't possibly take that long. The Germans allegedly were able to do so iin 6 years, not working continuously, and only employing a small percentage of the soldiers and/or officers in the army. With a determined Jewish effort, the process could be completed quite rapidly. Furthermore, if such documents were produced, why were they not burned as the Reich crumbled in upon itself?It's a lot harder to forge a document than it is to type a protocol or report. Takes more time and money too. And what makes you think such documents weren't burned? We have the tip of the iceberg, and it's still enough.
Luckily for the Allies, they did not need to coerce all of the Nazis to confess; indeed, if they had done so, it would not have been very plausible. The weaker ones collapsed first and they were the ones put on trial.Could you show me where some of those "weaker ones" confessed?

What is it about these forums that attracts Nazis?

It's only been recent, and it's irritating.

Prove what? That chipmunks are incapable of writing coherent sentences? You have to be joking.So maybe we just use Occam's Razor and ignore the implausible?

Germany was a very modernized country with a well-functioning economy. That was more than could be said for the Soviet Union, with whom we were eventually allied.

What about Britain?

have you checked every chipmunk? Maybe it's a conspiracy to keep the intelligent chipmunk's hidden.

If God wanted to make an intelligent entity which appeared to be a chipmunk, he could have done so away from the prying eyes of mere humans, yes. I do not contest that.

Prove what? That chipmunks are incapable of writing coherent sentences? You have to be joking.

it is certainly possible, nobody has examined every chipmunk in the world

If God wanted to make an intelligent entity which appeared to be a chipmunk, he could have done so away from the prying eyes of mere humans, yes. I do not contest that.

so then maybe you are that chipmunk

It's only been recent, and it's irritating.
They've always been around. Interestingly enough, Nazi regions seem to be losing members, and I see no indications that this is because the mods are deleting them. I'd say some people are losing interest.

It's only been recent, and it's irritating.

I am not a Nazi.

So maybe we just use Occam's Razor and ignore the implausible?

Occam's Razor is not a valid tool for determining which theory is right. According to Occam's Razor, a given person would not win the lottery, even though that person might have won in real life.

so then maybe you are that chipmunk

I am cognizant of the fact that I am not a chipmunk, but there is no way for me to effectively convey that to you.

Germany was a very modernized country with a well-functioning economy. That was more than could be said for the Soviet Union, with whom we were eventually allied.

Which if you examine it was really a marriage of convenience for the US and Britain. Lets face facts here they used the Soviets just as much as the Soviets used us. Besides a countries economy is not the only basis when choosing allies. Its rather difficult to convince congress to ally itself with a nation ruled by an expansionistic dictator who had conquered most of Europe and were attacking our close friends (and possibly more importantly) and buisness partners. Oh, and the fact that they declared war first after THEIR ally ATTACKED OUR FLEET.

Occam's Razor is not a valid tool for determining which theory is right. According to Occam's Razor, a given person would not win the lottery, even though that person might have won in real life.Occam's Razor chooses to eliminate options in order to leave that which requires the least assumptions.

Your "what if" scenario is based entirely on assumptions.

Occam's Razor is not a valid tool for determining which theory is right. According to Occam's Razor, a given person would not win the lottery, even though that person might have won in real life.

No, Occam said that when considering two or more explanations for the same thing, the simpler explanation is the better one and more likely true. It is simpler to conclude from the evidence that a mass killing of Jews and others did occur in Nazi germany than to conclude that all the evidence was forged, that numerous officers and officials were coerced and that an international Jewish conspiracy manipulated the governments of the United states, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, and France, to name just a few.

I am cognizant of the fact that I am not a chipmunk, but there is no way for me to effectively convey that to you.

so you can not prove you're not a chipmunk then.

Your "what if" scenario is based entirely on assumptions.

That does not negate its veracity; it simply means that it cannot be proven with the resources I currently possess. The same thing can be said about God.

I am cognizant of the fact that I am not a chipmunk, but there is no way for me to effectively convey that to you.You might be lying because you have something to gain. I don't think chipmunks have as many constitutional rights as humans. Then again, you could be coerced. We can't believe you, you must understand.

No evidence right... I'll just ignore the man I know who happens to have a number branded onto his arm.

We all are well aware of the giant Zionist conspiracy orchestrated by millions of Jews, kept completely quiet and executed flawlessly, to suppress the true knowledge of the Holocaust in order to perpetuate the creation of a Zionist state. All you need to do is check stormfront.org and you can see all the facts exposing the Zionists right there! Believe us, just because our material receives absolutely no credibility from the historical community and only exists in historically anti-Semitic groups doesn't discredit our theory! It's just a coincidence that we Neo-Nazis deny its nonexistence -- it has nothing to do with politics at all.

so you can not prove you're not a chipmunk then.

Did I stutter? Yes, that's what I said.

You might be lying because you have something to gain. I don't think chipmunks have as many constitutional rights as humans. Then again, you could be coerced. We can't believe you, you must understand.

Now you're just being inane.

That does not negate its veracity; it simply means that it cannot be proven with the resources I currently possess. It can also mean that you can't prove it because the resources necessary don't exist.
The same thing can be said about God.Ooh, comparing apples and oranges. Historical fact compared to faith.

"Originally Posted by RuleCaucasia
Germany was a very modernized country with a well-functioning economy. That was more than could be said for the Soviet Union, with whom we were eventually allied."

What about Britain?

Hello there!

I'm enthralled by your, um, 'novel' take on history and would dearly like to know more.

We all are well aware of the giant Zionist conspiracy orchestrated by millions of Jews, kept completely quiet and executed flawlessly, to suppress the true knowledge of the Holocaust in order to perpetuate the creation of a Zionist state. All you need to do is check stormfront.org and you can see all the facts exposing the Zionists right there! Believe us, just because our material receives absolutely no credibility from the historical community and only exists in historically anti-Semitic groups doesn't discredit our theory! It's just a coincidence that we Neo-Nazis deny its nonexistence -- it has nothing to do with politics at all.

The preceding disclaimer brought to you by the people at Bergen Belsen. Remember our motto, "Work Makes You Free (Arbeit Macht Frei)!"

Now you're just being inane.Now you know what it feels like! ;)

Well done on the chipmunk front btw although my favorite thing like this happened on another forum where an Irish holocaust revisionist was using estimates of world number of Jews and showing how the numbers didn't add up. Quick as a flash, the potato famine was discredited using similar figures as a way to spread the Irish across the world and blame the British for their difficulties.

If you want to believe something, you'll always find a way to.

Now you know what it feels like! ;)

I am debating a valid historical point, not whether or not you're actually a highly intelligent blue whale. One is completely is the realm of fantasy and the other can be backed up with logical reasoning. I am not suggesting that Hitler was really a squirrel disguised as a man who tried to kill Jews to process their remains into nuts or something.

I'd just like to point out that this inane, uneducated, fundamentally racist SOB does not represent my religion in any way. Biblical Christianity is not the religion of logic-denying, hate-filled racists who speak out against all peoples. Crack a Bible, buddy, and while you're at it, a book or two on cognitive thinking...

Not much else to say, I agree with most of the posts the rest of you've made, I just couldn't sit back and watch my religion so defamed by idiocy.

From the Holocaust to chipmunks to religion in 9 pages......nice.

I am debating a valid historical point, not whether or not you're actually a highly intelligent blue whale. No, you were being inane. You based your viewpoint solely on the claim that all evidence opposing your viewpoint must be, without exception, false.
One is completely is the realm of fantasy and the other can be backed up with logical reasoning. No, both are completely in the realm of fantasy as you suggested. You have no evidence to back up the claim that every single piece of evidence is false, and it is only in your imagination that this has any validity. "The jews must have built up all these camps to corroborate their story" is not logic.
I am not suggesting that Hitler was really a squirrel disguised as a man who tried to kill Jews to process their remains into nuts or something.No, you were arguing a point by saying we should ignore all evidence. That's the same as arguing that you are in fact a dexterous chipmunk based on the "evidence" that things that would indicate you are not (such as chipmunks not being known for knowing English, typing on computers, or having internet access) are probably false.

I am debating a valid historical point, not whether or not you're actually a highly intelligent blue whale. One is completely is the realm of fantasy and the other can be backed up with logical reasoning. I am not suggesting that Hitler was really a squirrel disguised as a man who tried to kill Jews to process their remains into nuts or something.

The validity of your point seems to be what is up for debate because I believe that an overwhelming amount of people viewing/posting in this thread believe you are one of several types of fools. However, he is making a point which maybe you are not picking up on, and seeing as we are dealing in the realm of what if's then I think what he is saying is entirely valid.

It is probably true that the Holocaust is just a lie concocted by the Jews to acquire a state of their own. On the other hand, they are better than the Iranians, Palestinians, Lebanese, etc., so I'd have to side with them during this conference.

Are you talkin' again?

Looks like I get to point out that your name implies the rule of people who look nothing like you. They're Arabs, Turkmen, Azeris, Armenians, Persians, Chechens, and lots more. You're too ignorant to even make a decent bigot.

No, you were arguing a point by saying we should ignore all evidence.

No, I was arguing a point by showing you how your supposed "evidence" could easily have been false.

Oh great, what a good way to promote more anti - semitism.

Looks like I get to point out that your name implies...

What does my name have to do with my argument? Absolutely nothing. Looks like I get to point out that you cannot debate a person based on his appellation.

See what it just said? Racist. Not something disputable, it's going after people because of their race. And that's not something you argue about on NSG. Unless you're faking. :D

From the Holocaust to chipmunks to religion in 9 pages......nice.all nuts, you know

No, I was arguing a point by showing you how your supposed "evidence" could easily have been false.

By "evidence," you mean facts that conflict with your political ideology?

What does my name have to do with my argument?

"RuleCaucasia" obviously refers to a belief of white ("caucasian") supremacy ("rule"). The fact that so many of your arguments are rooted in this belief lends itself towards the notion that your forum name and your argumentation are connected.

But ya know, when you say stuff like this:

It is probably true that the Holocaust is just a lie concocted by the Jews to acquire a state of their own. On the other hand, they are better than the Iranians, Palestinians, Lebanese, etc

Tells me you're probably a self-hating Jew.

By "evidence," you mean facts that conflict with your political ideology?

:eek:

Unless you're faking. :D

I never fake, neither here nor...elsewhere. Also, I'd like to point out that I am not racist; I do not look down upon people because of their race but rather because of misguided and sinful lifestyle choices which they may have made (such as being Buddhist, Islamic, or Jewish).

We all are well aware of the giant Zionist conspiracy orchestrated by millions of Jews, kept completely quiet and executed flawlessly, to suppress the true knowledge of the Holocaust in order to perpetuate the creation of a Zionist state. All you need to do is check stormfront.org and you can see all the facts exposing the Zionists right there! Believe us, just because our material receives absolutely no credibility from the historical community and only exists in historically anti-Semitic groups doesn't discredit our theory! It's just a coincidence that we Neo-Nazis deny its nonexistence -- it has nothing to do with politics at all.

When you say "we all", are you talking about you and the voices echoing inside your skull?

When you say "we all", you include me. I explicitly forbid you from speaking for me in any way. I wouldn't let you order me a sandwich. So you can stop saying "we all" whenever you type. It just isn't true and it's insulting.

Among flawed humanity, there is no such thing as a "flawless conspiracy", especially if it involves subjecting EVERYONE of an entire RACE to severe and fatal torture, slavery, branding and genocide. Sorry, pal, it just doesn't wash. You're suggesting by that assertion that A) there's some kind of Jewish telepathy or other means by which all Jews comunicate through the ether so that every single one of them realized that submitting themselves to the Holocaust was the only way to statehood, and B) those trying to flee were somehow dissenters to the plan without ever revealing it to anyone else.

Can you say "loopy"?

Tells me you're probably a self-hating Jew.

I, sir, am a devout Christian.

By "evidence," you mean facts that conflict with your political ideology?

Unfortunately you cant argue with people like him because when you make a point he will either ignore it or claim that it is completely false or unprovable. He reefuses to acknowledge people who know men and women who lost their entire families and/or were actually placed in extermination camps.

No, I was arguing a point by showing you how your supposed "evidence" could easily have been false.Tell me then, how did they fake the Sachsenhausen historical site, along with all the drawings and pictures (some of which were made by their own pathologists)? Was the old guy who got stuck in Sachsenhausen when he was a youth for painting "Down with Hitler" on a wall really lying? Were those documents I saw (that I linked to so you could see them too) at the Haus der Wannsee Konferenz all fake? What about the beds at Terezin that were damaged by the flood and now regrettably have to be disposed of? What about the diaries of Hitler's secretary? Why did Stauffenberg and his group go against Hitler? Why was my Great-grandfather's brother interned for being a communist? Was my grandfather lying when he told me this? Were my jewish friends parents and grandparents lying when they told them about the family members that had been interned or murdered? Are all the pictures I've seen false? All the pictures? Every single one of them? Really?

I doubt it.

"RuleCaucasia" obviously refers to a belief of white ("caucasian") supremacy ("rule"). The fact that so many of your arguments are rooted in this belief lends itself towards the notion that your forum name and your argumentation are connected.

But ya know, when you say stuff like this:



Tells me you're probably a self-hating Jew.

Yeah, but just who came from and now inhabits the Caucasus Mountain region from which his fictional "Caucasia" derives its name? Nobody wot looks loike 'IM, myte, that's f'sure.

His country's name reveals him as too ignorant to even be a decent bigot.

I never fake, neither here nor...elsewhere. Also, I'd like to point out that I am not racist; I do not look down upon people because of their race but rather because of misguided and sinful lifestyle choices which they may have made (such as being Buddhist, Islamic, or Jewish).

That happens to be almost exactly what Jesussaves would have said. He only looks down on people because they think differently.

Edit: Well, no. Jesussaves would have said that. He definitely wouldn't believe it.

That happens to be almost exactly what Jesussaves would have said. He only looks down on people because they think differently.

Well, I think we're done here. The night shift can continue this, I suppose, but there's really not much more to say.

None are so blind as those who will not see...

Pure and simple hate aimed at provoking

which in turn is a reaction to the Danish cartoons....

and RukeCaucasia is a good example of why all fudie christians should be mocked. all the time.

I, sir, am a devout Christian.

You most certainly are not. Surely you CALL yourself a Christian, no doubt, in order to attempt to somehow soften the blow and bring even a scintilla of legitimacy into your foul reasoning. But you're either reading the Bible so incredibly selectively that you've missed everything important (like, say, ALL of Christ's teachings), or you haven't read a whit and just hide behind a tissue veil of the cross in order to leach out some sympathy.

Rubbish, the lot of your ideas and double rubbish, the breath you waste on them.

When you say "we all", are you talking about you and the voices echoing inside your skull?

When you say "we all", you include me. I explicitly forbid you from speaking for me in any way. I wouldn't let you order me a sandwich. So you can stop saying "we all" whenever you type. It just isn't true and it's insulting.

Among flawed humanity, there is no such thing as a "flawless conspiracy", especially if it involves subjecting EVERYONE of an entire RACE to severe and fatal torture, slavery, branding and genocide. Sorry, pal, it just doesn't wash. You're suggesting by that assertion that A) there's some kind of Jewish telepathy or other means by which all Jews comunicate through the ether so that every single one of them realized that submitting themselves to the Holocaust was the only way to statehood, and B) those trying to flee were somehow dissenters to the plan without ever revealing it to anyone else.

Can you say "loopy"?

Is blindness common for you, or did you just miss the large neon signs around his post saying 'Sarcasm'?

Either that, or you really need to work on your own sarcastic posting style.

I, sir, am a devout Christian.

Sure. Uh huh. Whatever.

You're about as believable as some redneck who says shit like:

"Dayum! I ain't no homo. I mean, how can them homos do that? Belly up on each other, licking each other's massive, tasty hotdogs? Rubbing up and bumping up all night long? I'm sure glad I ain't a homo. No sir, no homosexuality here. None!"

Yeah, but just who came from and now inhabits the Caucasus Mountain region from which his fictional "Caucasia" derives its name? Nobody wot looks loike 'IM, myte, that's f'sure.

His country's name reveals him as too ignorant to even be a decent bigot.

Well yeah, and same with racists who use the term "Aryan" to describe themselves. It's stupid and ignorant and it's the stupidity and ignorance that bothers me as much as the bigotry.

He may not be "decent" but he's a bigot. Either that or just some lying troll.

Anyone else getting the impression that RuleCaucasia is a parody?

Tell me then, how did they fake the Sachsenhausen historical site, along with all the drawings and pictures (some of which were made by their own pathologists)?

I don't know what the Sachsenhausen site was, but it most likely was a labor camp or some type of similar enclosure. However, nobody was summarily executed there for being of a particular race. I am unaware of the drawings and pictures to which you are referring, and I will not stipulate that they were in fact drawn by their own pathologists. It is quite easy to forge such documents, you know.

Was the old guy who got stuck in Sachsenhausen when he was a youth for painting "Down with Hitler" on a wall really lying?

Old people are prone to attacks of dementia -- he may not have been lying, but could have simply forgotten his past (as is common among octogenarians) and reconstructed it from the reports he heard about the Holocaust.

Were those documents...all fake?

Possibly, yes.

Why did Stauffenberg and his group go against Hitler?

There are many power-hungry demagogues in this world who will seek to usurp power, given whatever pretext they can fabricate.

Why was my Great-grandfather's brother interned for being a communist?

I never said political prisoners were not arrested, as they were liabilities who could actively attempt to undermine the war effort. The US did the same thing to Japanese-Americans during the war.

Was my grandfather lying when he told me this? Were my jewish friends parents and grandparents lying when they told them about the family members that had been interned or murdered? Are all the pictures I've seen false? All the pictures? Every single one of them? Really?

You could be making that story about your grandfather up. I don't trust people on these boards, as they can easily create a story out of thin air. My grandfather, who served at Auschwitz, claimed that there was no brutal treatment of Jews there.

Anyone else getting the impression that RuleCaucasia is a parody?

I wish. He's just clever enough. All he does is variations on the "Is not!" responses you get from a five-year-old. If you don't agree with him you're an idiot, all your evidence is forged, and you're probably a misguided Jew, Buddhist, Mulsim, etc.

Anyone else getting the impression that RuleCaucasia is a parody?Doesn't have to be. Considering the amount of websites and books that tout the same bullshit, it's unlikely that they're all parodies, just like it's unlikely that all the evidence is fake.

You could be making that story about your grandfather up. I don't trust people on these boards, as they can easily create a story out of thin air.

My grandfather, who served at Auschwitz, claimed that there was no brutal treatment of Jews there.

Wow! You've proved that people CAN invent bullshit on these forums, by doing it yourself!

Unfortunately, you haven't proven that anyone else here is as dishonest as you are, so we're back to square one aren't we?

Doesn't have to be. Considering the amount of websites and books that tout the same bullshit, it's unlikely that they're all parodies, just like it's unlikely that all the evidence is fake.

Nah, it's the way he says it. "I, sir, am a devout Christian" sounds a bit self-satirizing imo. But you never know.

Wow! You've proved that people CAN invent bullshit on these forums, by doing it yourself!

Unfortunately, you haven't proven that anyone else here is as dishonest as you are, so we're back to square one aren't we?

I was not being dishonest. I was simply giving an example of an easily-fabricated story which carries no weight because of its lack of veracity.

If Bush made a conferance discussing weather the Crusades happened, or weather there was really a slave trade etc... where only mostly racists were invited, everyone would be absolutely apauled as they realise this would just increase massively racism.

The same thing is happening hear, but the difference is, it is much more devestating to promote anti - semitism in Iran then it is to promote racism to the USA.

I heavily criticize Iran for doing this, weather it is their right or not.

I, sir, am a devout Christian.That's healable. Start reading books.

Nah, it's the way he says it. "I, sir, am a devout Christian" sounds a bit self-satirizing imo. But you never know.

I first wrote simply "I am a devout Christian," but did not sound forceful enough, so I revised my post to include "sir." Granted, it does seem a bit pretentious, but it also sounds stronger.

You could be making that story about your grandfather up. I don't trust people on these boards, as they can easily create a story out of thin air. My grandfather, who served at Auschwitz, claimed that there was no brutal treatment of Jews there.

O, and if I dont believe you, what of that. I wonder if the man I already mentioned branded himself just for the purpose of creating a Zionist State? Or have my eyes been lying to me as well?

That's healable. Start reading books.

The Bible is the only book man needs to read, as divine essence is contained within its pages and it can mend one's sinful ways by subjecting one to the holy truth.

The Bible is the only book man needs to read, as divine essence is contained within its pages and it can mend one's sinful ways by subjecting one to the holy truth.

Holy shit. He is Jesussaves.

I don't know what the Sachsenhausen site was, but it most likely was a labor camp or some type of similar enclosure. However, nobody was summarily executed there for being of a particular race. I am unaware of the drawings and pictures to which you are referring, and I will not stipulate that they were in fact drawn by their own pathologists. It is quite easy to forge such documents, you know.Sachsenhausen is outside of Berlin and was allegedly an "Olympic Village". It primarily housed political prisoners. The drawings were by the inmates themselves, as were the songs I've heard. One of the drawings depicts one of the typical sessions of testing combat boots for the military on a track that can still be seen there today. Unless, of course, it is fake. The pictures taken were of dismembered bodies on the pathological table in the pathology building, which houses a chilled cellar for the corpses, complete with blood drains. There's plenty of space.

I must admit, I now believe you that no one was executed on the special four-way gallows they had set up there, because as someone who never knew that it existed, you are an expert on it.
Old people are prone to attacks of dementia -- he may not have been lying, but could have simply forgotten his past (as is common among octogenarians) and reconstructed it from the reports he heard about the Holocaust.Hm...
Dementia (from Latin de- "apart, away" + mens (genitive mentis) "mind") is the progressive decline in cognitive function due to damage or disease in the brain beyond what might be expected from normal aging. Didn't make that impression. He was very witty and recounted specifically what had happened to him and showed us his drawings of the time.

But, never having met him, your diagnosis of his demetia must be true.
Possibly, yes.Prove it.
There are many power-hungry demagogues in this world who will seek to usurp power, given whatever pretext they can fabricate.Ahuh. Whatever.
I never said political prisoners were not arrested, as they were liabilities who could actively attempt to undermine the war effort. The US did the same thing to Japanese-Americans during the war.You are claiming that the camps they were sent to were fake. That what they saw there never happened.
You could be making that story about your grandfather up. I don't trust people on these boards, as they can easily create a story out of thin air. My grandfather, who served at Auschwitz, claimed that there was no brutal treatment of Jews there.Or, you could of course be a chipmunk. Of course, if you really had a grandfather in the SS, perhaps you have reason to deny all the evidence. Something to gain, perhaps.

The Bible is the only book man needs to read, as divine essence is contained within its pages and it can mend one's sinful ways by subjecting one to the holy truth.Either you haven't been reading the bible or it doesn't work.

I was not being dishonest. I was simply giving an example of an easily-fabricated story

...by lying. Guess what lying is? It's dishonesty! Odd how that works, no?

So hey. You were lying then. You are also lying about being a true Christian. You're probably lying about just about everything else you can think to type. You're dismissed, you liar. ;)

When you say "we all", are you talking about you and the voices echoing inside your skull?

When you say "we all", you include me. I explicitly forbid you from speaking for me in any way. I wouldn't let you order me a sandwich. So you can stop saying "we all" whenever you type. It just isn't true and it's insulting.

Among flawed humanity, there is no such thing as a "flawless conspiracy", especially if it involves subjecting EVERYONE of an entire RACE to severe and fatal torture, slavery, branding and genocide. Sorry, pal, it just doesn't wash. You're suggesting by that assertion that A) there's some kind of Jewish telepathy or other means by which all Jews comunicate through the ether so that every single one of them realized that submitting themselves to the Holocaust was the only way to statehood, and B) those trying to flee were somehow dissenters to the plan without ever revealing it to anyone else.

Can you say "loopy"?

pssssst, he was being sarcastic

The Bible is the only book man needs to read, as divine essence is contained within its pages and it can mend one's sinful ways by subjecting one to the holy truth.

Right now that this man has decided what humanity needs to read I will strive to carry out his directives. First I will burn all of the books which I own that are on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, then I'll burn all of the books I own which espose freedom (e.g. The Communist Manifesto, and The Wealth of Nations. Finally I will go to Barnes&Noble and buy every book by Anne Coulter they have.

Any other brilliant declarations?

Right now that this man has decided what humanity needs to read I will strive to carry out his directives. First I will burn all of the books which I own that are on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, then I'll burn all of the books I own which espose freedom (e.g. The Communist Manifesto, and The Wealth of NAtions. Finally I will go to Barnes&Noble and buy every book by Anne Coulter which they have.

Any other brilliant declarations?Maybe add Mein Kampf to that list? It talks about a man's plans for removing jews from future German living space, just like what that one conference was all about...

...by lying. Guess what lying is? It's dishonesty! Odd how that works, no?

Look, if you say that it's impossible to say a lie, I can easily disprove that statement by saying "the sky is pink." Does that make my statement a lie? Perhaps, but it is not a dishonest statement as the reader knows that it's a lie which was stated for the purpose of illustrating a point, and it was not intended to feed anyone incorrect information, but rather stop its dissemination. In effect, it has the opposite effect as that of a "normal" lie.

Look, if you say that it's impossible to say a lie, I can easily disprove that statement by saying "the sky is pink." Does that make my statement a lie? Perhaps, but it is not a dishonest statement as the reader knows that it's a lie which was stated for the purpose of illustrating a point, and it was not intended to feed anyone incorrect information, but rather stop its dissemination. In effect, it has the opposite effect as that of a "normal" lie.

so...in other words...you lied?

In the world of science, burden of proof lies upon the person trying to make the argument. In proving that the Holocaust happened, we have documents, eyewitness testimonies, pictures of these camps, etc. That is the proof. It is empirical, testable evidence that there was an event we call the 'Holocaust'.

Now, if you suggest that there is a conspiracy plot, and Jews falsified records and soldiers lied, then burden of proof is on you to provide evidence. Saying, "Well, they could have lied, and the Jews have a reason to create this plot" does not prove that such a plot exists/existed. Empirical, testable evidence must be shown for us to believe such a plot exists. As none has been given, such a plot cannot be reasonably thought to exist, or to have existed.

QED

Maybe add Mein Kampf to that list? It talks about a man's plans for removing jews from future German living space, just like what that one conference was all about...

Initially I was going to add Mein Kampf but decided I had thrown enough sarcasm into my post already.

Finally I will go to Barnes&Noble and buy every book by Anne Coulter they have.

Since when did I say she was God? Since when did she write the Bible? Please don't ridicule my stance; I heartily dislike that (excuse my French) bitch.

Look, if you say that it's impossible to say a lie, I can easily disprove that statement by saying "the sky is pink." Does that make my statement a lie? Perhaps, but it is not a dishonest statement as the reader knows that it's a lie which was stated for the purpose of illustrating a point, and it was not intended to feed anyone incorrect information, but rather stop its dissemination. In effect, it has the opposite effect as that of a "normal" lie.

Except of course, your "lie" was just as believable as any of the other things you've said. In fact, up til I called you out on it being a lie, it would have surprised no one if you never admitted to it being a lie in the first place (that would get more attention and is in keeping with your character).

You're dishonest. You lie. You can squirm about all you like, but it's pretty obvious. Your cover is blown. I mean, we can debate the issues you probably don't even believe in, all day - but we both know you'll never back down on anything, instead choosing to spit out more canned "this'll really piss 'em off LOL!" type responses because that's what you're after. Length. Not debate: length.

Since when did I say she was God? Since when did she write the Bible? Please don't ridicule my stance; I heartily dislike that (excuse my French) bitch.

I will redicule your stance if I wish to redicule your stance, as you have not presented one piece of testable or even partially believable evidence to support your beliefs. You appear to everyone to be a fool who will (like Hitler, ironically), believe what he wishes to believe with nothing to support his Thesis.

You're dishonest. You lie. You can squirm about all you like, but it's pretty obvious. Your cover is blown.

I do not wish to insult you, but you are pretty thick. I stated that it is very easy to fabricate stories on such boards, and I said that I do not believe anyone who tells a story about his grandparents. As an example, I said that my grandfather worked Auschwitz, which is obviously untrue. I'm not "squirming" nor do I have "cover." You simply have your head in the proverbial sand.

Did this thread ever take off..?

I'm sorry, but I only read the first page and I got very, very depressed. "Yeah, putting people in jail for their opinion is wrong"... Such joy this 'conference' was held in Iran then...

Because people in Iran won't get jailed airing controversial views very often...



Did it?

just say "it did" or "it really didn't"

I do not wish to insult you, but you are pretty thick. Another lie. See?
I stated that it is very easy to fabricate stories on such boards, and I said that I do not believe anyone who tells a story about his grandparents. As an example, I said that my grandfather worked Auschwitz, which is obviously untrue. I'm not "squirming" nor do I have "cover." You simply have your head in the proverbial sand.Oh, it wasn't obviously so. It could have explained your fervent denial really well.

Oh, it wasn't obviously so. It could have explained your fervent denial really well.

I apologize. I should have been more clear with that, then.

I do not wish to insult you, but you are pretty thick.

Oh, no worries. Nothing you say is very insulting anymore, it's more like a sad parade of cliches.

I stated that it is very easy to fabricate stories on such boards, and I said that I do not believe anyone who tells a story about his grandparents. As an example, I said that my grandfather worked Auschwitz, which is obviously untrue.

Right - it's obviously untrue, much like your supposed Christianity. Hence, dishonest.

I'm not "squirming" nor do I have "cover."

Sure.

You simply have your head in the proverbial sand.

And which proverb does that refer to?

No, I do not. However, you can draw a logical inference that I am not because I am typing very coherent sentences, an act which chipmunks are incapable of adequately doing.

A well trained chipmunk could probably do it though. I'd say therefore that you are a well trained chipmunk that was trained to do this by being sodomised every time you got it wrong. This explains your need to troll, as well as the way shit just pours out of you.

I do not wish to insult you, but you are pretty thick. I stated that it is very easy to fabricate stories on such boards, and I said that I do not believe anyone who tells a story about his grandparents. As an example, I said that my grandfather worked Auschwitz, which is obviously untrue. I'm not "squirming" nor do I have "cover." You simply have your head in the proverbial sand.

Who is calling whom thick now, you are a man who apparently refuses to acknowledge that he: 1). Has the burden of evidence. 2). Might, in fact, be incorrect in his beliefs.

1). Has the burden of evidence.

I am simply submitting a conjecture. I have previously stipulated that I lack sufficient resources to uncover a centuries-old massive conspiracy. I am not attempting to prove my viewpoint; I am simply stating that it is possible and not unlikely, in which case the burden of proof rests upon you to tell me how it is, in fact, impossible and unlikely.

2). Might, in fact, be incorrect in his beliefs.

I acknowledge that my beliefs may be incorrect (regarding the Holocaust, that is). Do you acknowledge that you might be flawed in your beliefs on the same topic?

A well trained chipmunk could probably do it though. I'd say therefore that you are a well trained chipmunk that was trained to do this by being sodomised every time you got it wrong. This explains your need to troll, as well as the way shit just pours out of you.

I won't even pretend to know what you are talking about. Are you calling me a trolling chipmunk who has been frequently raped? I mean, really.

I am simply submitting a conjecture. I have previously stipulated that I lack sufficient resources to uncover a centuries-old massive conspiracy. I am not attempting to prove my viewpoint; I am simply stating that it is possible and not unlikely, in which case the burden of proof rests upon you to tell me how it is, in fact, impossible and unlikely.

Sorry, logic doesn't work that way. You claim it is "not unlikely" then YOU get to show why.

You state it's possible, YOU get to show why.



I acknowledge that my beliefs may be incorrect (regarding the Holocaust, that is). Do you acknowledge that you might be flawed in your beliefs on the same topic?

POSSIBLY? Yes. PROBABLY? No.

I won't even pretend to know what you are talking about. Are you calling me a trolling chipmunk who has been frequently raped? I mean, really.

I consider it possible and not unlikely that you are a trolling chipmunk who has repeatedly been raped us the ass. Prove you're not.

I won't even pretend to know what you are talking about. Are you calling me a trolling chipmunk who has been frequently raped? I mean, really.


http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/007_YAH_RLLY!.JPG

http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/007_YAH_RLLY!.JPG

Now that's a helluva thing...

I consider it possible and not unlikely that you are a trolling chipmunk who has repeatedly been raped us the ass. Prove you're not.

There has not been one reported case of a chipmunk who has been able to type. That casts much doubt on your assertion that I am a chipmunk. However, I cannot prove that I am not a chipmunk, as I might be.

There has not been one reported case of a chipmunk who has been able to type.

There has not been one reported case of someone admitting to falsifying evidence that would cast doubt on the holocaust either.

Given that there hasn't been a single confirmed source for either, I consider the holocaust as a conspiracy to be equally likely as you are an ass raped chipmunk.

I am simply submitting a conjecture. I have previously stipulated that I lack sufficient resources to uncover a centuries-old massive conspiracy. I am not attempting to prove my viewpoint; I am simply stating that it is possible and not unlikely, in which case the burden of proof rests upon you to tell me how it is, in fact, impossible and unlikely.

Wait... centuries old. Your telling me that the Jews planned this over the course of several houndred years?! Do you have any idea how unlikely that is?

I acknowledge that my beliefs may be incorrect (regarding the Holocaust, that is). Do you acknowledge that you might be flawed in your beliefs on the same topic?

I am willing to acknowledge that there is a chance (however slight) of my views being false. As for proof I ask you to go meet with a Dr. Peter Pober who is on the staff of George Mason University whether he believes the holocaust is real.

P.S. He lost most of his extended family in the holocaust and was only saved because he and his parents had moved to the US.

if hitler didnt gas them i wish he had.

if hitler didnt gas them i wish he had.

Troll.

if hitler didnt gas them i wish he had.

No, no, no, you're doing it wrong. All wrong.

If you want to troll, your first post needs to include at least one of the following emoticons: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :upyours:

Please try again.

No, no, no, you're doing it wrong. All wrong.

If you want to troll, your first post needs to include at least one of the following emoticons: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :upyours:

Please try again.

Here, Here!

Wait... centuries old.

Oops, I meant to say decades-old.

Oops, I meant to say decades-old.

Bit of a difference there dont you think;).

Oops, I meant to say decades-old.

Funny that.
Anyway.You seriously think this is a massive Zionist conspiracy,where the Jews just went "I know,a few of us died back in the 1940s,lets REALLY EXAGGERATE IT and make everyone feel sorry for us.Yeeeeah,that sounds like a fun day out!"
......I doubt your point of view,somehow.

We should have an international conference on the historical accuracy of the invention of sauerkraut.

We should have an international conference on the historical accuracy of the invention of sauerkraut.

I'd join that.
Who DID invent Sauerkraut?

Me.

I'd join that.
Who DID invent Sauerkraut?

It was never invented, all a conspiracy set up by the World Vegetarian Council.

It's not illegal in the United States to research the Holocaust. Whatever you may say about the Nazis, they kept meticulous records of what they were doing, ad those are available, for the most part. No, my friend, you choose to deny the evidence before you because it suits you to do so.

Research in the US? Please the US is the closest allies to the zionists. Do you really think the powers that be, the real people that run the government, would allow information to come out that the holocaust wasn't as bad as many claim, and in doing so hurt the zionist agenda? I doubt it.

Research in the US? Please the US is the closest allies to the zionists. Do you really think the powers that be, the real people that run the government, would allow information to come out that the holocaust wasn't as bad as many claim, and in doing so hurt the zionist agenda? I doubt it.As opposed to countries like France or Germany which aren't really the closest allies. But unlike the US, holocaust denial is illegal there... Hm...

I acknowledge that my beliefs may be incorrect (regarding the Holocaust, that is). Do you acknowledge that you might be flawed in your beliefs on the same topic?Those possibilities were dispelled after my first visit to a concentration camp.

Soviestan, your sig is wrong.

Soviestan, your sig is wrong.

care to elaborate on that champ?

The point remains, whether or not the Holocaust happened, if it did it happened in Europe right? So therefore using it as a pretense and/or justification for sympathy and to systematically invade and subjugate your neighbours (Palestine in particular) in the Middle East is wrong, yes. The Jews are not to blame, they were swept up into a bloody oppressive and racist regime by the Zionists, that is why the Zionist regime must be destroyed.

care to elaborate on that champ?

Sure. The old testament doesn't say anything about non-jews going to hell.

The point remains, whether or not the Holocaust happened, if it did it happened in Europe right? So therefore using it as a pretense and/or justification for sympathy and to systematically invade and subjugate your neighbours (Palestine in particular) in the Middle East is wrong, yes. The Jews are not to blame, they were swept up into a bloody oppressive and racist regime by the Zionists, that is why the Zionist regime must be destroyed.

That's iffy. The zionist regime shouldn't so much be destroyed as just stop where it is. The Jews (which I am one of, so don't assume I'm being racist.) have their homeland, and they should just quit while they're ahead. It's the leaders of all of the middle eastern countries, including Israel, that are causing problems. Israel wants more land, and the surrounding countries want it gone. It'd take another Holocaust to shut them all up.

Sure. The old testament doesn't say anything about non-jews going to hell.

didn't you bring this up before? I already explained this.

Those possibilities were dispelled after my first visit to a concentration camp.

Of course there are those who make the claim that the furnaces, even burning at full speed every day, would not have been able to destroy 6 million jewish bodies, however they forget the fact that most people killed were not burned, and when you go to concentration camps, you are basically standing ontop of massive mass-gravesites, with tens of thousands of bodies buried in each... but heh. I'd show pictures of the various concentration camps, and the state of those within them, but I'd rather not. Something very unsettling about hundreds of bone-thin dead people(Sometimes not even dead when thrown into the grave) piled into a mass grave that I really don't think some would like to see.

Really, the holocaust was horrid, with millions of dead, including Jews, Christians, Romani(Gypsies), Homosexuals, those with Disabilities, those whom disagreed with the Hitler's vision of Nazism, and other groups. It was one of the most atrocious acts in the twentieth century, and those whom fail to realize it for what it truly was, have very little humanity in them.

didn't you bring this up before? I already explained this.

I didn't bring it up. What did you say?

And I'm leaving now. This thread is essentially dead.

Of course there are those who make the claim that the furnaces, even burning at full speed every day, would not have been able to destroy 6 million jewish bodies, however they forget the fact that most people killed were not burned, and when you go to concentration camps, you are basically standing ontop of massive mass-gravesites, with tens of thousands of bodies buried in each... but heh. I'd show pictures of the various concentration camps, and the state of those within them, but I'd rather not. Something very unsettling about hundreds of bone-thin dead people(Sometimes not even dead when thrown into the grave) piled into a mass grave that I really don't think some would like to see.

Really, the holocaust was horrid, with millions of dead, including Jews, Christians, Romani(Gypsies), Homosexuals, those with Disabilities, those whom disagreed with the Hitler's vision of Nazism, and other groups. It was one of the most atrocious acts in the twentieth century, and those whom fail to realize it for what it truly was, have very little humanity in them.
Sure, it was bad, it happened in Europe right? What does it have to do with the Middle East and in particular Palestine. Is using their deaths as a justification to commit more oppression, atrocities, war crimes honoring their deaths? I dont think so, more like insane revenge.

care to elaborate on that champ?

So now that youre a confirmed Muslim, youre on a "TEH JOOS R TEH EBBIL" thing?

I honestly thought better of you.

Is anyone truly surprised when a religion/culture notorious for hating anything Jewish in origin gets together and decides to state something as proposterous as Holocaust Denial?

I hate to be the one to tell them, but the worlds Muslim nations need to start focusing on thier own little realms of misguided oppression before they once again point a tired finger at any other religions/cultures.

Its basically a matter of time before a rather large division grows within its ranks, or rather, a matter of time before the one that already exists grows larger.

Maybe its time to realize that zealotism gets you killed.
Its all well and good to be faithful to Allah, or Jeff The God of Biscuits, but when blaming all of lifes problems on "The Jews" any Great Satan of the Week
take precedence over peace.....your religion is fucked.

Sure, it was bad, it happened in Europe right? What does it have to do with the Middle East and in particular Palestine. Is using their deaths as a justification to commit more oppression, atrocities, war crimes honoring their deaths? I dont think so, more like insane revenge.

Alot of what happened after both WWI and WWII caused problems. Infact, most of the problems involved in Africa, for example, are a direct result of European colonization and the falls of the various empires during these times. The problem isn't the justification for it, but the fact these people are there now, and most of these people were born there. Was it justified in setting up in the first place? No, not really. However, is it justified to destroy it now? No, not really. The problem is not black and white.

Research in the US? Please the US is the closest allies to the zionists. Do you really think the powers that be, the real people that run the government, would allow information to come out that the holocaust wasn't as bad as many claim, and in doing so hurt the zionist agenda? I doubt it.

You are so damn cute. I think I'll drink a shot to you.

You are so damn cute. I think I'll drink a shot to you.

ooh what kind of shot does one drink to Soviestan? This alone could make a nice thread.

Jack? Baileys? Vodka? Jim Bean?

ooh what kind of shot does one drink to Soviestan? This alone could make a nice thread.

Jack? Baileys? Vodka? Jim Bean?

Polish Potato Vodka, in honor of Jan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_III_Sobieski) Sobieski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna).

Polish Potato Vodka, in honor of Jan Sobieski.

If it weren't finals week, I'd be having a nice Irish Car Bomb. Those are really great drinks.

If it weren't finals week, I'd be having a nice Irish Car Bomb. Those are really great drinks.

I've been trying to figure out what the appropriate brand of whiskey one is supposed to put into those is, have you any idea?

I've been trying to figure out what the appropriate brand of whiskey one is supposed to put into those is, have you any idea?

Baileys

Research in the US? Please the US is the closest allies to the zionists. Do you really think the powers that be, the real people that run the government, would allow information to come out that the holocaust wasn't as bad as many claim, and in doing so hurt the zionist agenda? I doubt it.

Ever been to a Konzentrationslager? It's a grim sight, the ovens, the barracks, the empty wooden bunks, the guard quaters, the chimneys. That sign, that goddam sign.

Ever seen the pictures that Allied soldiers brought back with them?

I've seen 'em.

So now that youre a confirmed Muslim, youre on a "TEH JOOS R TEH EBBIL" thing?

I honestly thought better of you.

Is anyone truly surprised when a religion/culture notorious for hating anything Jewish in origin gets together and decides to state something as proposterous as Holocaust Denial? -snip-

Man.. I had written up a very good responce and even knowing that I should have copied and pasted it, I didn't. It was in the moment and it was much better written, and more in depth than what I'm about to write.. But I'm trying to remember what I wrote. Good luck me. Add: Only the first couple sentences were similar to my first post. Oh well. What can ya do.

No one is denying that the jews have been unliked, untrusted, and unwanted. This has been proven time and time again throughout history from their many expulsions from various countries... far before nazi Germany. Holocaust Historians question the inconsistancies of the Holocaust, and there are many. They are not all out to prove that Hitler wasn't the two headed , double edge sword brutal exterminator that we have been taught. They are only out for the truth.

Questioning what event will cause you the most ridicule today?

If you are in the West and say anything besides the holocaust .. you are a liar or very misinformed.

You are so damn cute. I think I'll drink a shot to you.

ooh what kind of shot does one drink to Soviestan? This alone could make a nice thread.

Jack? Baileys? Vodka? Jim Bean?

I'd perfer you not drink, it only leads to problems.

So now that youre a confirmed Muslim, youre on a "TEH JOOS R TEH EBBIL" thing?

I honestly thought better of you.

Is anyone truly surprised when a religion/culture notorious for hating anything Jewish in origin gets together and decides to state something as proposterous as Holocaust Denial?

I hate to be the one to tell them, but the worlds Muslim nations need to start focusing on thier own little realms of misguided oppression before they once again point a tired finger at any other religions/cultures.

Its basically a matter of time before a rather large division grows within its ranks, or rather, a matter of time before the one that already exists grows larger.

Maybe its time to realize that zealotism gets you killed.
Its all well and good to be faithful to Allah, or Jeff The God of Biscuits, but when blaming all of lifes problems on "The Jews" any Great Satan of the Week
take precedence over peace.....your religion is fucked.

How did a discussion about my sig lead to me being accused of hating jews? I don't hate jews. And I object to the notion that my religion hates jews and as you put it is "fucked"

Much as I hate to agree, yeah, putting people in jail for opinions is wrong.

well it's not a question of opinion, but of facts. those who say the holocaust didn't happen want to erase a really big part of the recent history of europe, and the lessons it gave us along with it.

in France, it is also illegal to make hate speeches against any group you'd care to name, if you want to think of it as an opinion...

well it's not a question of opinion, but of facts. those who say the holocaust didn't happen want to erase a really big part of the recent history of europe, and the lessons it gave us along with it.

in France, it is also illegal to make hate speeches against any group you'd care to name, if you want to think of it as an opinion...


Yes, it is a question and answer of opinion. And no , they aren't about erasing anything. Many just happen to see the many incosistancies that are there. There has been so much written about the holocaust it usually take someone at least a few years to put their argument together.. it is not some off the top theory they have come up with. Either way.. I cannot fathom how studying it, and even disagreeing with popular opinions should be illegal .. fined and/or jailed.

Ever been to a Konzentrationslager? It's a grim sight, the ovens, the barracks, the empty wooden bunks, the guard quaters, the chimneys. That sign, that goddam sign.

Ever seen the pictures that Allied soldiers brought back with them?

I've seen 'em.
you've basically described army barracks, congrats.

Prove that the Second Punic War ever happened. The documents that discuss the events could have, theoretically, been forged. Because it is possible that they were forged, we must disregard the silly notion that said war ever happened.

Yes, it is a question and answer of opinion. And no , they aren't about erasing anything. Many just happen to see the many incosistancies that are there. There has been so much written about the holocaust it usually take someone at least a few years to put their argument together.. it is not some off the top theory they have come up with. Either way.. I cannot fathom how studying it, and even disagreeing with popular opinions should be illegal .. fined and/or jailed.

okay, there are always conflicting reports on what happens during an important event (especially one involving so many people) ; that doesn't mean there is doubt about what happened. besides I don't think it's an opinion. can you say you're of the opinion that the twin towers in new york are still upright?

as for people being jailed for speaking their minds... negationism isn't about speaking one's mind, it's about deliberatelly misleading people, and trying to excuse such actions as trying to completelly kill off a whole population. that is not an opinion, it is a form of propaganda.

ooh what kind of shot does one drink to Soviestan? This alone could make a nice thread.

Jack? Baileys? Vodka? Jim Bean?

one doesnt take shots of baileys. one drinks it out of a big glass.

Baileys

baileys isnt a whiskey.

Ugh.

As a second-year history student and (hopefully) one day Professor of History, it disgusts me that there are those who actually try and question the Holocaust. It's one of the few areas in history that has more than enough evidence to prove that it occured; history is indeed about questioning and probing, but in terms of the Holocaust I fail to see how one can question it, given the evidence that exists.

Scum like Duke and Irving don't deserve the name 'Historian'; it besmirches the actions and work of real historians. They are hate-mongerers, plain and simple.