NationStates Jolt Archive

Some of them, anyway.
A very small sect to tell the truth.
Interesting perspective and read, nonetheless, especially the Rabbi's take on the Holocaust.
Why are Jews attending a conference on the Holocaust in Tehran at which star guests include deniers of the genocide? Clue: they also want an end to the Israeli state.

A handful of Orthodox Jews have attended Iran's controversial conference questioning the Nazi genocide of the Jews - not because they deny the Holocaust but because they object to using it as justification for the existence of Israel.

With their distinctive hats, beards and side locks, these men may, to the untrained eye, look like any other Orthodox believers in Jerusalem or New York. But the Jews who went to Tehran are different.

Some of them belong to Neturei Karta (Guardians of the City), a group of a few thousand people which views Zionism - the belief that modern Jews have the right to settle in Palestine - as a "poison" threatening "true Jews".

A representative, UK-based Rabbi Aharon Cohen, told the conference he prayed "that the underlying cause of strife and bloodshed in the Middle East, namely the state known as Israel, be totally and peacefully dissolved".

In its place, Rabbi Cohen said, should be "a regime fully in accordance with the aspirations of the Palestinians when Arab and Jew will be able to live peacefully together as they did for centuries".

Neturei Karta believes the very idea of an Israeli state goes against the Jewish religion.

The book of Jewish law or Talmud, they say, teaches that believers may not use human force to create a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah.

...

However, he also argued that the genocide had been divine will. "The Zionists, with their secular pompous approach behave in complete opposition to this philosophy and dare to say 'Never Again'.

"They have the audacity to think that they can prevent the Almighty from repeating a Holocaust. This is heresy."
I like their silly hats:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42343000/jpg/_42343675_conference416.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm
Wonder how long this thread will last before descending into the usual Israel/Palestinian flamefest? I'm betting 12 replies. Any takers?

Some of them, anyway.
A very small sect to tell the truth.
Interesting perspective and read, nonetheless, especially the Rabbi's take on the Holocaust.

I like their silly hats:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42343000/jpg/_42343675_conference416.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm
Wonder how long this thread will last before descending into the usual Israel/Palestinian flamefest? I'm betting 12 replies. Any takers?

"The book of Jewish law or Talmud, they say, teaches that believers may not use human force to create a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah."

That bit's certainly interesting, to say the least.

I give it 17.

I agree with the word " genocide " for what the nacional-socialists tried to do to the jews, but "holocaust" ?
That´s a word the jews created themselves for that matter.

The world will never forget what happened, why do we have to put up with 453 films and books and newspapers articles per year on the subject...

Holocaust here, holocaust there, holocaust everywhere, ad nauseam...

Some of them, anyway.
A very small sect to tell the truth.


The best thing about them is that they come on all the protest marches against the Israeli occupation and, this Summer, they were at all the demonstrations/marches against the war in Lebanon.

I have a photo - but unfortuantely no scanner - of two British Hasidic anti-zionist Jews with their arms round the shoulders of two British-Lebanese men with Hezbollah flags and T-shirts saying "Hezbollah - Peace in the Middle East - Our Way."

Truly Fucking wierd.

All right, so they don't like Israel- fair enough, lots of people don't, but then, about this bit...
However, he also argued that the genocide had been divine will. "The Zionists, with their secular pompous approach behave in complete opposition to this philosophy and dare to say 'Never Again'.

"They have the audacity to think that they can prevent the Almighty from repeating a Holocaust. This is heresy."
http://www.acc.umu.se/~zqad/cats/mothershipcat.jpg

WTF. They're almost as bad as the Nazis themselves.

I agree with the word " genocide " for what the nacional-socialists tried to do to the jews, but "holocaust" ?
That´s a word the jews created themselves for that matter.
No, holocaust was a word before WW2. It's derived from the Greek holo-kauston, which referred to a totally burnt sacrifice - and for this reason many Jews prefer to use the term Shoa (Shoah, Sho'ah), which is apparently Hebrew for calamity.

These jews are the win. And not only for their highly impressive headgear and facial hair.

I agree with the word " genocide " for what the nacional-socialists tried to do to the jews, but "holocaust" ?
That´s a word the jews created themselves for that matter.


No,no they didn't.That was a word loooooooong before Hitler's regime.Holocaust means death by fire,or something along those lines.Jews didn't have a hand in it at all,metinks it's Greek.

Thanks all for correcting me. Really :)

But who cares, it´s just a word. What they do with it, that´s what concerns me.
Like people profitting from the exploitation of the Holocaust and of jewish themes... e.g., look at the jewish Waschowski brothers, creators of " The Matrix " series :

- An opressed people ;
- A promised land called ZION
- a messiah-like character ( Neo )

Give me a break..

Thanks all for correcting me. Really :)

But who cares, it´s just a word. What they do with it, that´s what concerns me.
Like people profitting from the exploitation of the Holocaust and of jewish themes... e.g., look at the jewish Waschowski brothers, creators of " The Matrix " series :

- An opressed people ;
- A promised land called ZION
- a messiah-like character ( Neo )

Give me a break..

As opposed to the conservative Christian Mel Gibson with his "Passion of the Christ":

- an oppressed people;
- a promised land called HEAVEN
- a messiah-like character (Jesus)

That was hardly exploitative, was it? And not really the first film about Jesus, either. So, exploitation is simply common to people, not just Jews. Heck, the Russians made movies for decades about the October Revolution, I'm sure the Chinese still make movies about Mao and the Long March, everyone does it. After all, money makes the world go around.

meh... just fence the middle east off and let them solve the issue among themselves.

Or the Islamic nations should stop threatening Israel then it should take care of itself :)

Edit: oh, I forgot that this it the 1st post here: :mp5: Sorry, could not resist!

I like their silly hats:


Thats the practical hat...theres another with fur or something round the top. How the fuck they take the heat walking round with it on is beyond me.

This doesn't surprise me.

This makes me remember an article I read a while ago that spoke of many Jews just wanting a place to call home and not necessarily the Holy Land, in fact, many just wanted to return to their European homes.

As Arabs See The Jews (http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html)

Perhaps you have been informed that "the Jews in Europe want to go to no other place except Palestine."

This myth is one of the greatest propaganda triumphs of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, the organisation which promotes with fanatic zeal the emigration to Palestine. It is a subtle half-truth, thus doubly dangerous.

The astounding truth is that nobody on earth really knows where these unfortunate Jews really want to go!

You would think that in so grave a problem, the American, British, and other authorities responsible for the European Jews would have made a very careful survey, probably by vote, to find out where each Jew actually wants to go. Amazingly enough this has never been done! The Jewish Agency has prevented it.

Some time ago the American Military Governor in Germany was asked at a press conference how he was so certain that all Jews there wanted to go to Palestine. His answer was simple: "My Jewish advisors tell me so." He admitted no poll had ever been made. Preparations were indeed begun for one, but the Jewish Agency stepped in to stop it.

The truth is that the Jews in German camps are now subjected to a Zionist pressure campaign which learned much from the Nazi terror. It is dangerous for a Jew to say that he would rather go to some other country, not Palestine. Such dissenters have been severely beaten, and worse.
...
The Jewish Agency heard of this, and exerted enough political pressure to stop it. It would be bad propaganda for Zionism if Jews began leaving Palestine. The nearly 1,000 Austrian are still there, against their will.

Some of them, anyway.
A very small sect to tell the truth.
Interesting perspective and read, nonetheless, especially the Rabbi's take on the Holocaust.

I like their silly hats:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42343000/jpg/_42343675_conference416.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm
Wonder how long this thread will last before descending into the usual Israel/Palestinian flamefest? I'm betting 12 replies. Any takers?

a small sect maybe, but they are not alone among Jews who oppose the occupation. Those who are opposed are deliberately shunned by the media in the US, to give any coverage to them brings down the wrath of Jewish lobby groups. The fear of being accused of antisemitism sends journalists and politicians running for cover.

This doesn't surprise me.

This makes me remember an article I read a while ago that spoke of many Jews just wanting a place to call home and not necessarily the Holy Land, in fact, many just wanted to return to their European homes.

As Arabs See The Jews (http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html)
You sight a Jordanian government site. That's really objective:rolleyes:

You sight a Jordanian government site. That's really objective:rolleyes:
And an Israeli site would be any more objective?

Besides, you might care to note the date that this was written - 1947 (though not posted then! ^_^)

And an Israeli site would be any more objective?

Besides, you might care to note the date that this was written - 1947 (though not posted then! ^_^)

Wasn't that written then when Jordan was mobilizing it's army to INVADE ISRAEL!!!!!!

Wasn't that written then when Jordan was mobilizing it's army to INVADE ISRAEL!!!!!!
That was when the "zionists" had moved in with the help of other foreign powers on Arab land. And there is no such thing as "Holy Land", it's just a bunch of men deciding that they want to take another's land.

Now it's a different story.

You sight a Jordanian government site. That's really objective:rolleyes:

hypocrite...you the person who wrote that posts without links were like pulling crap out of your ass....someone gives a link and you say it's worthless because it doesn't agree with your offically approved IDF propaganda sites.....as I posted before links as a debating tool are crap, and you're neck deep in it....

hypocrite...you the person who wrote that posts without links were like pulling crap out of your ass....someone gives a link and you say it's worthless because it doesn't agree with your offically approved IDF propaganda sites.....as I posted before links as a debating tool are crap, and you're neck deep in it....

A source from 1947 Jordan is NOT by any means a good source. It was written by a government that was plotting an invasion of Israel and trying to get the UNSCOP to not recommend partition at the time. Look at the context of the source. It's called critical thinking. It's a skill you sorely lack.

I wonder how many people here are aware that all they´re really doing is helping Israeli propaganda...:rolleyes:

Look at the context of the source. It's called critical thinking. It's a skill you sorely lack.I seem to distinctly recall you posting a few sources just like that a while back.

A source from 1947 Jordan is NOT by any means a good source. It was written by a government that was plotting an invasion of Israel and trying to get the UNSCOP to not recommend partition at the time. Look at the context of the source. It's called critical thinking. It's a skill you sorely lack.

like I said if a link doesn't support you argument it's a worthless, antisemitic, anti-Israeli or whatever.....either accept links or don't use them otherwise you're neck deep in crap......and a hypocrite

hypocrite...you the person who wrote that posts without links were like pulling crap out of your ass....someone gives a link and you say it's worthless because it doesn't agree with your offically approved IDF propaganda sites.....as I posted before links as a debating tool are crap, and you're neck deep in it....

like I said if a link doesn't support you argument it's a worthless, antisemitic, anti-Israeli or whatever.....either accept links or don't use them otherwise you're neck deep in crap......and a hypocrite
Thank you, Socialist Pyrates.

I was trying to link to a source, and having read my link several times, it doesn't come across as anti-semitic. It's anti-zionist, which is completely different.

I'm just trying to show that there is more than black and white, that there are shades of grey and I believe that even though this is written by a Jordanian, that this is an example of a shade of grey.

A handful of Orthodox Jews have attended Iran's controversial conference questioning the Nazi genocide of the Jews - not because they deny the Holocaust but because they object to using it as justification for the existence of Israel.
I like them.

They're almost as bad as the Nazis themselves.
They arn't advocating Holocaust or trying to kill Zionists, so how are they even almost as bad as the Nazis? They are almost as bad as the Westboro Baptists, but not the Nazis.

I like them.


They arn't advocating Holocaust or trying to kill Zionists, so how are they even almost as bad as the Nazis? They are almost as bad as the Westboro Baptists, but not the Nazis.

a religious sect preaching peace and brotherhood almost as bad as Nazi's?....that had me confused too

a religious sect preaching peace and brotherhood almost as bad as Nazi's?....that had me confused too
I know! The bastards!!

I know! The bastards!!

related to that weird Jewish sect of peaceful Nazi's....I believe it was in 1938(I may wrong about the date) there was a Arab/Jewish political party in Palestine that had support of 20% of the people for concept of a single state for Jews and Arabs, they were obviously overruled by extremists......they are still out there but again no one wants to listen to them......

Some of them, anyway.
A very small sect to tell the truth.
Interesting perspective and read, nonetheless, especially the Rabbi's take on the Holocaust.

I like their silly hats:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42343000/jpg/_42343675_conference416.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm
Wonder how long this thread will last before descending into the usual Israel/Palestinian flamefest? I'm betting 12 replies. Any takers?

I think they are right on. More power to them.

so idf, are these jews anti-semitic?

so idf, are these jews anti-semitic?

They criticize Israel, so yes.

They criticize Israel, so yes.
And if they criticise America, they're terrorists. :D

I like them.


They arn't advocating Holocaust or trying to kill Zionists, so how are they even almost as bad as the Nazis? They are almost as bad as the Westboro Baptists, but not the Nazis.

a religious sect preaching peace and brotherhood almost as bad as Nazi's?....that had me confused too
That was worded badly, I should have said 'Nazis' (i.e. neo-Nazis) instead of 'the Nazis'
The point is they're saying that the Holocaust was the will of God and that it's heresy to try and prevent another Holocaust from happening. :mad: WTF. I wouldn't say a group that would accept another Holocaust preaches peace and brotherhood.

The point is they're saying that the Holocaust was the will of God and that it's heresy to try and prevent another Holocaust from happening. :mad: WTF. I wouldn't say a group that would accept another Holocaust preaches peace and brotherhood.Thats not what they said at all.

What they were alluding to was that it must of been part of Gods plan that the Nazis tried to exterminate the jews, and if his followers are going about saying "never again" and doing anything they can to stop it happening again, even if a second "holocaust" is the will of God, they they are going agaist the will of thier god. And I believe going against the will of god is called HERESY!

...but "holocaust" ?
That´s a word the jews created themselves for that matter.It's obvious that Medical Oddities didnt claim that the jews invented the word "holocaust". What was inferred that the Jews called the attempted genocide of thier race by the nazis a halocaust. which seems to come from the jewish custom to make out the persecution of thier race is far worse than any other peoples on the planet.

If "holocaust" derives from a greek word meaning "totally burnt sacrifice", that totally ignores the plights of the thousands of jews who were simply killed and bulldozed into mass graves.

But then when did the jewish propoganda machine ever let the truth get in the way of a good story?

I can't get the thought of klezmer music out of my head...