NationStates Jolt Archive

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

Sincere suprise.

Though I beleive that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

A shrug, I guess.

I would check, if there was an error in the proof.

I would check, if there was an error in the proof.

But, it has been proven to your satisfaction to be factual. There is no error.

How would you react?

The first of many people who wont read the thread, and will give the 'proving god exists proves god doesn't exists' bit from HGTTG.

if it was deffinetly proven. first i roll around the floor laughing my hole off, then i would cry for a bit.
but i would accept it. maybe consider being a devil worshiper.

if god were proved to exist there would be no need for belief. you can't believe in a fact, you just know a fact.

The first of many people who wont read the thread, and will give the 'proving god exists proves god doesn't exists' bit from HGTTG.

The assumption, for this thread, is that proof of God is proof that He exists. And, that it is a proof that satisfies whatever conditions the reader wishes to presuppose.

I would check, if there was an error in the proof.

say "good thing I have been praying and going to church" and go about my business. There's no reason to be smug as dwardis suggests, as that is not nearly the Christian thing to do.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

BTW: will you specify which God? Are we assuming that there is irrefutable proof that Thor exists, or can we pick our own?

if god were proved to exist there would be no need for belief. you can't believe in a fact, you just know a fact.

This hits near the mark of my nebulous point.

But, it has been proven to your satisfaction to be factual. There is no error.

How would you react?

Go to a doctor and check if I'm getting nuts. ;)

Ask Him if He could microwave a burrito so hot even He couldn't eat it...

"Oh, that's interesting."

It wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference. Oh, the OP doesn't say which god is proven; can we have Loki? I like Loki.

say "good thing I have been praying and going to church" and go about my business. There's no reason to be smug as dwardis suggests, as that is not nearly the Christian thing to do.

I didn't say that I should be smug or even that I am permitted/allowed to be smug.

I said I would find it hard not to be.

We all sin, and one of the sins I fall into is a haughty "I told you so" attitude.

Though I beleive that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

*me reading today's news*

mmm, well fuel is becoming more expensive..., government is still corrupt..., somebody has irrefutably proven god's existance..., oh and there is the joke section!!! Great success :)

I wouldn't react. So then, god exists. Whatever floats your boat.

Ha ha! Told you so! Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyaaaahhhh!

I probably wouldn't do that. But I also think I would have a hard time not being smug about it.

Thank God that when I die or Jesus comes back (whichever is sooner) I'll be glorified and kept from sin so I won't want to be smug.

So the difference between then and now is being what exactly?

Depends on which God is proven to exists.

If it's Odin, I might start drinking, looting and berserking

If it's Zeus, I might start making sacrifices to gods to avert their displeasure or their interest in my daughter/wife.

If it's Allah, I might start to grow a beard and shout "death to infidels".

Either way, I'd start to look into their teachings.

BTW: will you specify which God? Are we assuming that there is irrefutable proof that Thor exists, or can we pick our own?

For my purposes, that it is the Christian God.

Yes, yes, I'll probably get beat about the virtual head and shoulders, but my thread, my choice...

Go to a doctor and check if I'm getting nuts. ;)

The doctor verifies your sanity beyond a doubt.

say "good thing I have been praying and going to church" and go about my business. There's no reason to be smug as dwardis suggests, as that is not nearly the Christian thing to do.

Oh, he's only looking forward to his punishment... he's been waiting soooo long for it, the poor little maso.

I would then believe, but still refuse to worship.

Ask Him if He could microwave a burrito so hot even He couldn't eat it...

Burritos give Him gas...

My precise reaction would depend on exactly what this proven God was like, I think. After all among monotheists or even among Christians different groups have very different ideas of what God cares about etc...

If this is the Calvinist God then utter despair is in order.
If it's the Catholic God then getting my soul in order would be acceptable. If it's a God in line with my own particualr theist belief, then only surprise at the existence of proof is called for.

For my purposes, that it is the Christian God.

Yes, yes, I'll probably get beat about the virtual head and shoulders, but my thread, my choice...

Some of the biggest arguements as to what God is actually like come from within christianity itself, so that doesn't help much.

For my purposes, that it is the Christian God.

Yes, yes, I'll probably get beat about the virtual head and shoulders, but my thread, my choice...

Psht, that's a rubbish god. Doesn't do anything. What's the point of having a fully paid-up, actually existing omnipotent god that doesn't do anything?

I would then believe, but still refuse to worship.

Worship is not required. Only belief is being tested.

Nothing.

In fact, if anything, it would solidify my ignosticism by showing me that I really did have nothing to care about.

Well... I can see perhaps using it as an excuse to offend everyone whp had jumped on the God-boat and becoming a Solipsistic Atheist, but that's about it.

Some of the biggest arguements as to what God is actually like come from within christianity itself, so that doesn't help much.

It doesn't matter what God is like for the purposes of this thread. I speak of a God in the most generic Christian sense.

If a man stops you in the street, whether he is a journalist, a painter, a brick-layer, a serial killer, a politician, etc., is irrelevant to whether or not he exists. His nature may give you reason to turn and flee or maybe ask him to build you a BBQ, but it has no effect on his existance.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?
If there were irrefutable proof that "God" exists, I would believe in the existence of "God."

However, if you want to know what I would do as a result of this belief, you're going to have to define what "God" is first.

Is it a benevolent god or a Judeo-Christian god? If it's a nice god, then I'll be slightly embarassed but rather pleased at the idea of no suffering and eternal bliss and so on. If it's the other god I'd hide under my bed, whimpering, and try not to do any damnable actions.

I'm pretty sure a thread like this has already been made a while ago, but whatever.



Well let's see, the only way I can without a doubt believe in the existence of a specific god and his intentions is if he comes down to earth himself and tells me face to face. None of this "faith" bullshit - when people's souls are on the line, you don't gamble on them and hope they pick the right religion. Any decent god would come down and tell us himself - himself, not sending his son. It'd have to be a huge global event where god just chills out with everyone at the same time to get things straightened out.

I find it interesting that, so far, three have maintained their atheism.

Why might that be?

If one questioned, let alone refused to believe, that which has been proven beyond all shadows of a doubt and to one's own personal satisfaction, why would one not believe in that thing?

Is that not a definition of insanity?

If there were irrefutable proof that "God" exists, I would believe in the existence of "God."

However, if you want to know what I would do as a result of this belief, you're going to have to define what "God" is first.

Well, for the moment, except for commentary, the belief part is sufficient.

It doesn't matter what God is like for the purposes of this thread. I speak of a God in the most generic Christian sense.

.

Oh, in that case, if it is generic Christian god, then I would become quite disappointed that such evil being really exists. I would think that world would become less nicer place to live on the day of that Proof.


But after an hour I would forget and would go surf the internet looking for jokes that I have not yet read.

if god definitely existed beyond any reasonable doubt i certainly wouldn't be worshipping it. i was always taught to question authority, especially such arbitrary authority as "i am this, therefore you must respect me". i'd probably start petitioning for it to start doing it's job and protest any policies i disagreed with. maybe i'd get involved in a coup attempt, with the intention of applying democracy to the process of deification.

Well let's see, the only way I can without a doubt believe in the existence of a specific god and his intentions is if he comes down to earth himself and tells me face to face.

Then, if this is what is required, for you, then this is what happens.

God approaches you - short little guy, wearing a golfer's hat, thick glasses and smoking a stogie. He squints at you and says, "Hey, how's it going?"

The proof for the purposes of this thread is whatever is enough to satisfy you. So, you pick the proof and that's what you've got.

It would be a terrible thing to happen.

Imagine what all the fundamentalists - Jehovah´s Witnesses, Radical Christians and Muslims, the like - imagine what they would do.
We would return to the Dark Ages.

I find it interesting that, so far, three have maintained their atheism.

Why might that be?

If one questioned, let alone refused to believe, that which has been proven beyond all shadows of a doubt and to one's own personal satisfaction, why would one not believe in that thing?

Is that not a definition of insanity?

No, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different response eventually.

Kinda like praying.

It would be a terrible thing to happen.

Imagine what all the fundamentalists - Jehovah´s Witnesses, Radical Christians and Muslims, the like - imagine what they would do.
We would return to the Dark Ages.

Who said?

Other than that God is proven to exist, nothing else changes. Your bills are still due next month and Britney Spears is still flashing her crotch at paparazzi.

Nothing changes except that God is proven to YOU. Not to the guy next to you, not to Jehovah's Witnesses, but is a personal proof that satisfies whatever YOUR criteria may be.

If one questioned, let alone refused to believe, that which has been proven beyond all shadows of a doubt and to one's own personal satisfaction, why would one not believe in that thing?

I know my desk exists. The keyboard and monitor I'm using right now are both sitting on it. I do not, however, believe in my desk. Knowing and believing are quite different.

With inscrutable proof, I would believe in the existence of a God, but not worship a supposedly all-powerful entity that lets injustices continue and thus has a morality incompatible with my own.

No, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different response eventually.

Kinda like praying.

So, you would take the fully loaded revolver, hold the end of the barrel against your kneecap and pull the trigger, in full expectation that your beer and pretzels will be replenished?

Then, if this is what is required, for you, then this is what happens.

God approaches you - short little guy, wearing a golfer's hat, thick glasses and smoking a stogie. He squints at you and says, "Hey, how's it going?"

The proof for the purposes of this thread is whatever is enough to satisfy you. So, you pick the proof and that's what you've got.

Okay, so George Burns walks up to me and proves to me without a shadow of a doubt that he's god.


Now what? I'm pissed off at him. I've got questions - why are we here, why did you create us to be such horrible beings, why do you keep us alive, why do you not intervene, what do you really want, why do you want it, where were you before the universe started - that sort of thing.

Depending on how he responds will affect how I react. Regardless, I'll want to know him on a personal level, but under no circumstances will I worship him. I'll believe in him, and will be his friend, but a slaveminded worshipper, no.

So, you would take the fully loaded revolver, hold the end of the barrel against your kneecap and pull the trigger, in full expectation that your beer and pretzels will be replenished?

No, I would wonder why the hell I have a gun - I don't own a gun, and I don't drink beer.

Could you explain the difference between the 2nd and 3rd options please? I'm a little confused.

And in answering the question posed, I would agree with what someone said earlier: if the proof was acceptable to me, then there would be no belief in it, just a definite knowledge of its existence, much the same as I know my keyboard is next to my fingers right now. I certainly wouldn't start worshipping it or suddenly change my behaviour, it would be just filling a gap that previously existed in my understanding of the world.

OK. Given the responses, not a few have said they would believe in God - not worship him - but would believe; or, in one case, accept.

So, what happens to Free Will?

We have Free Will to believe - or accept - or not to believe in God.

If presented with the self-confirmed fact that God does exist, then how does one maintain the Free Will to not believe?

If one holds a hammer at height and releases it in a gravity well, it will fall, no matter how one believes, so to maintain disbelief in the face of fact is not reasonable.

So, reasonably speaking, how is Free Will maintained if God is proven?

Thus, for myself, I do not believe that God can be proven. That's why it's called faith.

Could you explain the difference between the 2nd and 3rd options please? I'm a little confused.

And in answering the question posed, I would agree with what someone said earlier: if the proof was acceptable to me, then there would be no belief in it, just a definite knowledge of its existence, much the same as I know my keyboard is next to my fingers right now. I certainly wouldn't start worshipping it or suddenly change my behaviour, it would be just filling a gap that previously existed in my understanding of the world.

That's a pretty big gap, though, considering that one gap could hold the key to every other gap ever.

Could you explain the difference between the 2nd and 3rd options please? I'm a little confused.

Sorry. Yes, that is confusing wording, but I wanted to keep to short options.

Essentially, "Maintain non-God religious belief" would be to maintain one's belief in Hinduism, Shinto, Animism, Polytheisitc, etc., deities or lack thereof.

say "good thing I have been praying and going to church" and go about my business. There's no reason to be smug as dwardis suggests, as that is not nearly the Christian thing to do.

That assumes it is the Christian god that was shown to exist ... not something that the OP necessarily suggests. Worshiping the wrong god apparently can get you into trouble as well...

OK. Given the responses, not a few have said they would believe in God - not worship him - but would believe; or, in one case, accept.

So, what happens to Free Will?

We have Free Will to believe - or accept - or not to believe in God.

If presented with the self-confirmed fact that God does exist, then how does one maintain the Free Will to not believe?

If one holds a hammer at height and releases it in a gravity well, it will fall, no matter how one believes, so to maintain disbelief in the face of fact is not reasonable.

So, reasonably speaking, how is Free Will maintained if God is proven?

Thus, for myself, I do not believe that God can be proven. That's why it's called faith.

I believe free will is bollocks and should be abolished immediately. It's what we want - we want to KNOW the truth, and make our decisions based on that, not based on made-up inaccuracies about what god might want and then suffering for it later.

It just makes no sense that if god wants you to not burn in hell, he would tell you how to not burn in hell. Seems really simple, doesn't it?

If it affects free will, then fine - free will is affected. But he's not forcing us to do something, he's simply saying "this is in fact true, I'm sorry for the confusion earlier" with no vagueness. Some will choose to believe, some will choose to accept, some will choose to deny. Free will would still exist.

Free will would still exist.

Obviously not.

Some have posted here that they would, given proof, change their attitude to then believe in God.

Their Free Will has been thwarted.

By the way the rebellion thing...Not a good idea it has been tried. It took 1/3 the angels from heaven. It gets you sent to the abyss, in a lake of fire and all that.

I would clean up my act even more than I am doing already. I think it would inspire peace in some ways that this is all for something even if he didn't choose to share his reasoning with me.


By the way if God told you the answers would it matter anyway?

Simple, God wants us all to be happy. Make up your own minds. God does not want to force you to believe, he wants you to believe by choice. Someone said before free will.

Why did God create the universe? What does it matter we are here. Enjoy it!

Why is there evil in the world? To show you what to oppose, to fight against, to rally together to help each other. To stop petty bickering, warring and fighting over stupid stuff. To live in peace. To stop worrying about money and material possessions. To put people ahead of things.

So, what happens to Free Will?

We have Free Will to believe - or accept - or not to believe in God.

If presented with the self-confirmed fact that God does exist, then how does one maintain the Free Will to not believe?

If one holds a hammer at height and releases it in a gravity well, it will fall, no matter how one believes, so to maintain disbelief in the face of fact is not reasonable.

So, reasonably speaking, how is Free Will maintained if God is proven?

Thus, for myself, I do not believe that God can be proven. That's why it's called faith.

Your free will is still intact. Except in the area of your belief in God. Just like the person who believes there is a keyboard in front of them because they can see and touch it. Yes, they have to believe in the keyboard, but they can still choose if they want to watch TV or read a book later. Belief in one thing does not mean predeterminism in all things.

Your free will is still intact. Except in the area of your belief in God. Just like the person who believes there is a keyboard in front of them because they can see and touch it. Yes, they have to believe in the keyboard, but they can still choose if they want to watch TV or read a book later. Belief in one thing does not mean predeterminism in all things.

Exactly.

As long as god doesn't hold your hand and tell you how to wipe your ass, it's still free will. You can do whatever you damn-well please, you're just more informed about what the consequences of said actions are.

Your free will is still intact. Except in the area of your belief in God.

That's silly.

If one is allowed to vote in all elections, but the one for Supreme Leader, has that person's vote not been restricted?

That's silly.

If one is allowed to vote in all elections, but the one for Supreme Leader, has that person's vote not been restricted?

We were never able to vote for him in the first god damned place, we were just guessing, to the consequences of being wrong - a tune of hellfire and brimstone.

Of course I would have believed in him then. But i don't use the word "believe" when it's about prooven things.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?
A snort. If it's proven to exist, it can't be god, d'uh.

We were never able to vote for him in the first god damned place, we were just guessing, to the consequences of being wrong - a tune of hellfire and brimstone.

*sigh*

Obviously you missed the point I was illustrating.

I'll be more generic.

If one is denied part of something, then one's ability to exercise that something to one's full desires is thwarted.

If someone takes the spark plugs out of your Ferrari, you have been effectively denied the use of your Ferrari, have you not?

*sigh*

Obviously you missed the point I was illustrating.

I'll be more generic.

If one is denied part of something, then one's ability to exercise that something to one's full desires is thwarted.

If someone takes the spark plugs out of your Ferrari, you have been effectively denied the use of your Ferrari, have you not?

*sigh* Your metaphor sucks. In this situation, god showing himself and making himself known would be the equivalent of getting a maintenance check and renewing your license. You can still drive wherever you want, however you want, but you know the consequences for it and are prepared for whatever happens because of it.

So you have proven God exists, and billions of people wrong. Good job. Now you'll still have to prove which religion, if any, it is that truly knows his will. A daunting task considering it has (hypothetically) taken humans 200,000+ years to prove conclusively he existed in the first place. If there is a god, and that is a huuuuuge if from my point of view, he could very well be an "unmoved mover". In that case we are better off ignoring him and depending on reason. We'd be better off doing so right now.

So you have proven God exists, and billions of people wrong. Good job. Now you'll still have to prove which religion, if any, it is that truly knows his will. A daunting task considering it has (hypothetically) taken humans 200,000+ years to prove conclusively he existed in the first place. If there is a god, and that is a huuuuuge if from my point of view, he could very well be an "unmoved mover". In that case we are better off ignoring him and depending on reason. We'd be better off doing so right now.

He's said the generic Christian god has made himself known. Not sure what type of christian, but whatever.

I would thank him for proving his existance to the world, then continue worshipping him knowing that such knowledge will not return void.

He's said the generic Christian god has made himself known. Not sure what type of christian, but whatever.

Take your pick. After all, it is a proof that meets your own satisfaction.

That's a pretty big gap, though, considering that one gap could hold the key to every other gap ever.

Then again, god might just say, 'I just started it off, you have to discover how things actually work', so god might not necessary fill all gaps in my understanding, but definitely fills at least one.

Then again, god might just say, 'I just started it off, you have to discover how things actually work', so god might not necessary fill all gaps in my understanding, but definitely fills at least one.

Then he's a useless prick that doesn't deserve any attention if he's just going to continue ignoring us.

I think it would depend on what the proof tells us about God. Generally speaking, I would try to obey God's commands (as I try to obey what I believe are God's commands now).

Then he's a useless prick that doesn't deserve any attention if he's just going to continue ignoring us.

Thus the only acceptable 'proof' I could accept would be a direct showing of god, and even then I would be sceptical. If that was overcome by some method and I did accept the proof, I would give god no more attention than I did before, I would just be accepting its existence and carrying on with my life.

Well if we got our hands on a real life God, obviously we would have to go the disection route in the name of science.

Well I would aknowledge his existance but keep on being an atheist. I know Manchester United is the best football team but I´ll never be a fan....

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

I would believe He exists of course.
If I would worship Him is an entirely different question.

assuming him to be the monotheistic god, I would then know that he exists, and I would want him to explain himself on a lot of subjects, and maybe sue him...

I guess I would have to abandon my current value system and become a christian...and then, work on becoming Pope so I would RULE THE WORLD!!! as gods right hand of course.

Well I would aknowledge his existance but keep on being an atheist. I know Manchester United is the best football team but I´ll never be a fan....

Is not atheism the denial of the existance of a deity?

If you are not a fan of Manchester United (is that AFL or NFL?), does that mean they do not exist?

Is not atheism the denial of the existance of a deity?
Or... is it the acknowledgement of the universe?

Well, i'd test just how irrefutable this proof is. Just like if we discovered irrefutable proof that God didn't exist. Religious people wouldn't face the facts considering they're so blinded and would try, but fail, to discredit it.

Well, obviously I would accept irrefutable proof, but if any existed either way, don't you think this debate would have been solved by now?

Well we'll find out one way or another eventually.
Either there will be a judgement day, in which case god exists, or the earth will be sucked into the sun when it turns into a red giant, in which case god probably doesnt exist, cause if he did there would have been a judgement day before all life on the planet was eradicated.
So now all we need to do is to sit arround and wait.

Watch as most of the major religions imploded on 24 because he could tell exactly what all the major religious books meant. It would cause quite a big scandal.

The Xtian god? Call it an egotistical, sadistic **** and proudly proclaim that though it may have created me, it does not deserve my worship.

well i guess id have to reorder my life to include this new supreme being who now has to be taken into consideration (if he wants consideration)

kinda like being in france the day after the germans rolled in. suddenly life changes and you have a whole new regime to deal with.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?
I guess my first reaction would be to demand more and better data.

Well, i'd test just how irrefutable this proof is. Just like if we discovered irrefutable proof that God didn't exist. Religious people wouldn't face the facts considering they're so blinded and would try, but fail, to discredit it.

It is a proof that meets any test you desire.

As for proving God doesn't exist, it is not possible to prove a negative.

As for proving God doesn't exist, it is not possible to prove a negative.

Can you prove that? ;)

hm, a German author has stated something like: "If God exists, we need to revolt against Him." Not sure wether I would do so... I would have to reorder my values...


Also, I am reminded of this: http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/06/atheist.html

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

Depends . . . which one?

Well, I spoke to her the other week..

She told that she didn't really care if I got a haircut or not..

There's nothing that God could do to make anyone believe the light show and fireworks.

Some would say, "wow, aliens!"

Others might speculate that they were hallucinating, or that they should back off the mushrooms.

I'm quite sure that the people who believe themselves currently to be atheists have quite a few facile explanations in hand already.

Even if a bearded white guy in a robe came out of the sky and literally did the Rapture (taking up the believers), the atheist would merely nod and say, "what luck!"

Even if the scenes in the book of Revelation were literally played out - they still wouldn't believe any of it - there would be a "rational" explanation for that feeling they got when hurled into the lake of fire.

First off, it's not a "lake of fire". It's a basaltic magma flow...

well probably shrug, dependin on the religion change my life a bit 2 fit into his good books, and i expect id be smilin inside cos if he/she/it/they/whatever exists, it probably wouildnt fit any major religion

but 4 now im just happy 2 admit i have no clue if one or more exist, and go about my life happily... YAY! 4 agnosticism!

Were this catastrophe to occur, I'd immediately strive to reform that monstrous tyrant with my every breath.

Actually, I find it highly disturbing how many people would, on the presence of that god alone, redefine their morality to suit it.

How many would accept slavery as a moral practice? Slaughtering entire cities?

Just how far does the mother of all pleas to authority go with some folk?

Actually, I find it highly disturbing how many people would, on the presence of that god alone, redefine their morality to suit it.

How many would accept slavery as a moral practice? Slaughtering entire cities?

Just how far does the mother of all pleas to authority go with some folk?

Not surprised, myself.

as gods right hand of course

Before doing that you might want to consider ALL the duties God's right hand might be used for:p


As for the question, try and put him on trial for the plagues of Egypt saga, just for kicks.

Carry on as usual. I don't need some dick telling me what I can and cannot do. The government already has that covered.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

Depends,

if he had a physical presence I suppose I'd take my place in the line that would
form to kick 7 shades of something out of him.

Otherwise, a shrug.

"Oh, that's interesting."

It wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference. Oh, the OP doesn't say which god is proven; can we have Loki? I like Loki.

God (capital G) refers to the monotheistic God, and in colloquial use the omniscient Abrahamic deity. Loki would be a god (lowercase g).

God (capital G) refers to the monotheistic God, and in colloquial use the omniscient Abrahamic deity. Loki would be a god (lowercase g).

In colloquial use by the followers of said monotheistic god.

Capital A for Allah

Capital J for sshhh dont say it

lowercase g for others in colloquial use, by followers of aforementioned
monotheistic god who not only need to make themselves seem important
but who want their imaginary friend to be more important than other people's
imaginary friends.

I am agreeing with the argument the irrefutable proof makes it a fact instead of a belief, especially since I read the thread as saying that it was proven beyond any persons' doubt. I am not suprised that many agnostics/atheists would undergo a radical change in their philisophy, for they are those who do not believe in blind faith, which would be abolsihed by this. At the moment, as an atheist, I respet what religious beliefs can make a person into, and what they have cause in history, for better or worse. I should probably put more time into posting, but I don't fel like covering all the bases.

Look, I have always maintained that the day God shows up, sets my arse on fire by his ray beam eyes, and tells me to act in some prescribed fashion, I will. But in the meantime: he's a fairy tale.

Why is there no "other" option? 'Cause what I would do is kill him before he fucks up the world anymore.

Believe in god for sure :)

Why is there no "other" option? 'Cause what I would do is kill him before he fucks up the world anymore.

Isn't it what humans did in their interpreting of the word of god that screwed the world up?

What if God was proven, then said "I hate Africans."?

I'd start a hoeing africans. It IS god after all. But he woud have to show me his gold card first. Well, second. After his ray beam eyes.

Isn't it what humans did in their interpreting of the word of god that screwed the world up?

What if God was proven, then said "I hate Africans."?

Isn't that pretty much obvious, from the way He treats them?

*The way the rest of the world treats them, in his name.

Anyway, my point is what if humanity has broken so far from wanting to obey god that they wouldn't listen to him, or if they still would in such an instance.

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

I would laugh, because ANYBODY who has not been educated out of their mind KNOWS, without so-called "proof", that God exists.

You have to take His existence for granted, WITHOUT what you call "proof"; otherwise He'll ignore you.

"But WITHOUT FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him: for he that cometh to God must BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:5 [emphases mine]

I find it interesting that, so far, three have maintained their atheism.

Why might that be?

If one questioned, let alone refused to believe, that which has been proven beyond all shadows of a doubt and to one's own personal satisfaction, why would one not believe in that thing?

Is that not a definition of insanity?

Yes it most certainly is; disbelieving something that has been irrefutably proven to exist constitutes insanity.

OK. Given the responses, not a few have said they would believe in God - not worship him - but would believe; or, in one case, accept.

So, what happens to Free Will?

We have Free Will to believe - or accept - or not to believe in God.

If presented with the self-confirmed fact that God does exist, then how does one maintain the Free Will to not believe?

If one holds a hammer at height and releases it in a gravity well, it will fall, no matter how one believes, so to maintain disbelief in the face of fact is not reasonable.

So, reasonably speaking, how is Free Will maintained if God is proven?

Thus, for myself, I do not believe that God can be proven. That's why it's called faith.

"But WITHOUT FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him: for he that cometh to God must BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:5 [emphases mine]

A snort. If it's proven to exist, it can't be god, d'uh.

That statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How could you possibly come to such an asinine conclusion as that?

well probably shrug, dependin on the religion change my life a bit 2 fit into his good books, and i expect id be smilin inside cos if he/she/it/they/whatever exists, it probably wouildnt fit any major religion

but 4 now im just happy 2 admit i have no clue if one or more exist, and go about my life happily... YAY! 4 agnosticism!

In your heart, you DO know that He exists.

"Because that which may be known of God IS MANIFEST IN THEM; for God hath SHEWED IT UNTO THEM. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world ARE CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE:" Romans 1:19,20. [emphases mine]

Depends,

if he had a physical presence I suppose I'd take my place in the line that would
form to kick 7 shades of something out of him.

Otherwise, a shrug.

Why do you want to "kick 7 shades of something out of" Him? Don't you know He came to earth as a man and got beaten, whipped, cursed, mocked, spit on, and crucified? AND YOU WANT TO DO IT AGAIN?

Why is there no "other" option? 'Cause what I would do is kill him before he fucks up the world anymore.

YOU HAVE ALREADY KILLED HIM!

First of all, if you hate someone in your heart, as far as God is concerned you are guilty of killing that person, even though you may not commit the actual act.

Second, the sins of every human being who has ever lived (INCLUDING YOU) made His death necessary. "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures," I Corinthians 15:3

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

I would start a revolution against him, even though he cannot be defeated.

There's nothing that God could do to make anyone believe the light show and fireworks.

Some would say, "wow, aliens!"

Others might speculate that they were hallucinating, or that they should back off the mushrooms.

I'm quite sure that the people who believe themselves currently to be atheists have quite a few facile explanations in hand already.

Even if a bearded white guy in a robe came out of the sky and literally did the Rapture (taking up the believers), the atheist would merely nod and say, "what luck!"

Even if the scenes in the book of Revelation were literally played out - they still wouldn't believe any of it - there would be a "rational" explanation for that feeling they got when hurled into the lake of fire.

First off, it's not a "lake of fire". It's a basaltic magma flow...

you know, some atheists are able to change their mind... I wouldn't say god doesn't exists if he proves himself to exist (and I think only himself can do that, since all proof used by a human could have been doctored by him...) ; still, that doesn't mean I would worship him. and I don't think you could call that "believe" in god. I would just know he exists, and has a lot of explaining to do.

that's atheism for you.

I would laugh, because ANYBODY who has not been educated out of their mind KNOWS, without so-called "proof", that God exists.

You have to take His existence for granted, WITHOUT what you call "proof"; otherwise He'll ignore you.

why should we give a damn if he ignores us or not? he seems to already do anyway...

"But WITHOUT FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him: for he that cometh to God must BELIEVE that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:5 [emphases mine]


same as above : I certanly wouldn't want to please someone like the monotheistic god.

in your heart, you DO know that He exists.

how can you know what's in other people's heart? in your heart you DO know that he DOESN'T exist. does that make any less sense?

"Because that which may be known of God IS MANIFEST IN THEM; for God hath SHEWED IT UNTO THEM. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world ARE CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE:" Romans 1:19,20. [emphases mine]

he's supposed to be proven to exist because he's invisible and the world exists? I don't see how that could prove god's existence and that cannot be applied to any other mythical being you'd care to name.

besides, I thought we were supposed to believe blindly in him. why the proof then?

Why do you want to "kick 7 shades of something out of" Him? Don't you know He came to earth as a man and got beaten, whipped, cursed, mocked, spit on, and crucified? AND YOU WANT TO DO IT AGAIN?

why not? if someone else mass murdered whole nations, would you be satisfied with just beating him up? (I'm not saying that would be justice, but what the hell...)

YOU HAVE ALREADY KILLED HIM!

yeah, I wish.

Second, the sins of every human being who has ever lived (INCLUDING YOU) made His death necessary. "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures," I Corinthians 15:3

who is he to tell me I've sinned? and what's sin anyway?

erm, depends, which god? I'm a pantheist...I tend to assume all gods exist, anyway, and go about my day. I'm quite sure Allah is up there, along with Kali and Guan Yin, so what difference does it make? I'd choose "grab some munchies and watch 24" except that 24 is really abysmal television.

good chance I would slap him/her upside the head and ask "what were you THINKING??" :p

No, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different response eventually.

Kinda like praying.
Tasty SNAP!

I suppose if god was proven to exist, beyond any doubt whatsoever, I would believe in him/her/it. I can't see myself becoming a devout worshipper though.

Were this catastrophe to occur, I'd immediately strive to reform that monstrous tyrant with my every breath.

Hallelujah.
*bows*

If it became a fact that God did indeed exist, I would invite her over for a killer party. There I would try to get her panties off.

If it became a fact that God did indeed exist, I would invite her over for a killer party. There I would try to get her panties off.

If God exists she goes comando.

I'd be like "crap!" and then run before I was undoubtedly struck by lightning.

No. Actually I'd just go along like normal and do whatever it is I've been doing before it was proven. I'm not gonna change anything.

If God exists she goes comando.[
SIg'ed!

[
SIg'ed!

I knew it was sig material

Though I believe that it is impossible to prove God, I wish to assume, for the moment, that irrefutable proof was suddenly discovered that God does, indeed, exist.

What would be your reaction?

I'd accept it as a fact, and go back to my usual living. My ethics and morals wouldn't change at all. Nor would I worship God just because he exists. If I were to talk with him, anyway, I think that I would tell him that he's created a very interesting universe (assuming he'd created it), and maybe I would also thank him for that.

The assumption, for this thread, is that proof of God is proof that He exists. And, that it is a proof that satisfies whatever conditions the reader wishes to presuppose.

Yes, yes. However, God has stated that he will refuse to give proof of his existance that His existance is fuled by faith alone, and that if he were to be proven to exist said faith would no longer exist as everyone would then "know" and not "believe". So, if the Judeo-Christian-Islama-Rasta God was proven to exist He would cease to exist.

I would laugh as he vanishes from existence in a puff of logic.

Yes, yes. However, God has stated that he will refuse to give proof of his existance that His existance is fuled by faith alone, and that if he were to be proven to exist said faith would no longer exist as everyone would then "know" and not "believe". So, if the Judeo-Christian-Islama-Rasta God was proven to exist He would cease to exist.

Douglas Adams and the Babel Fish argument.:)

Sceptism for all!

Douglas Adams and the Babel Fish argument.:)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12072919&postcount=6


I called it..