NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061212/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_shooting

KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip - Hamas gunmen fired on demonstrators from the rival Fatah movement on Tuesday, wounding four people and intensifying fears of a new wave of Palestinian infighting following the deaths of three children in a drive-by shooting, officials said.

Fatah was protesting the deaths of the 3 palestinian children who were murdered yesterday.

Apparently it started as some children threw rocks at Hamas militiamen and they in turned fired into the crowd wounding four. A Hamas spokesman stated that they fired because of the stones and shooting though no one is confirming that Fatah actually fired any shots.

All of this, again, took place in the Gaza Strip.

Are we on the verge of an all out civil war in the area? No one knows but fear of growing factional violence is in the air. What are your thoughts?

Iraq style occupation, but with leaders who know what they're doing.

Iraq style occupation, but with leaders who know what they're doing.

Why do people still think this works?? Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters. Who do you suggest does the occupying?

The policy of divide and conquer seems fresh as ever...

Honestly, I dunno what anyone could do. It's pretty fucked up over there. I suppose the only thing people haven't tried is going over there with food and building houses for people and all that hippie bullshit - though it might work. The only flaw would be when you're building the houses they could be like "We want to live on the holy land, it's rightfully ours!" in which case you could either give them more normal land and give a huge speech about how the true holy land is in the heart, or shove them up against a brick wall and lift them by the neck, saying something along the lines of "Listen you fucking moron, people are dying for your bullshit - we're giving you food, homes, and we'll give you money to do with as you please, but I swear to fucking god, if you start up this holy land manifesto shit again, we're fucking nuking you. Did you hear me? We're fucking NUKING you. No questions asked, no more treaties, no remorse - just one big kaboom, and you all go away, and the rest of the world becomes a little more peaceful. Of course, we have the same deal with Isreal. They fuck up, we launch a nuke. Now kiss and make up, asshole."

Honestly, I dunno what anyone could do. It's pretty fucked up over there. I suppose the only thing people haven't tried is going over there with food and building houses for people and all that hippie bullshit - though it might work. The only flaw would be when you're building the houses they could be like "We want to live on the holy land, it's rightfully ours!" in which case you could either give them more normal land and give a huge speech about how the true holy land is in the heart, or shove them up against a brick wall and lift them by the neck, saying something along the lines of "Listen you fucking moron, people are dying for your bullshit - we're giving you food, homes, and we'll give you money to do with as you please, but I swear to fucking god, if you start up this holy land manifesto shit again, we're fucking nuking you. Did you hear me? We're fucking NUKING you. No questions asked, no more treaties, no remorse - just one big kaboom, and you all go away, and the rest of the world becomes a little more peaceful. Of course, we have the same deal with Isreal. They fuck up, we launch a nuke. Now kiss and make up, asshole."

Ummm.... in this case, it isn't Palestinians and Jews fighting each other.

It's Palestinians shooting each other.

Ummm.... in this case, it isn't Palestinians and Jews fighting each other.

It's Palestinians shooting each other.

I think the point still stands, because the Palestinians are fighting each other for who gets to choose the strategy and tactics of how to fight Israel. Two brothers fight each other for the right to try and beat up the neighbor kid first.

I think the point still stands, because the Palestinians are fighting each other for who gets to choose the strategy and tactics of how to fight Israel. Two brothers fight each other for the right to try and beat up the neighbor kid first.

It's fucking stupid, that's what it is.

Why do people still think this works?? Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters. Who do you suggest does the occupying?

Because it can work. You need to make it better known what your purpose is: "We are here to stop the violence, not to take colonies or to destroy Islam." And you need to have people who know what they're doing at the helm.

Multi-national force, probably US, UK, Israel. If the US went in Australia, Poland and a few others would probably help also.

Really, it should be the whole world. "Palestine, you are misbehaving and you refuse to shape up, it's time to take you out to the wood shed."

But, we know that economics and anti-Israel sentiment will cure us of that.

It's fucking stupid, that's what it is.

No shit. We've been trying to solve this shit for the past fifty years and nothing we've done has helped, we're still right where we started, if not worse off.

We used a nuke in WWII because we knew they wouldn't stop fighting unless they got their shit seriously knocked around. If it was a preventative measure then, why not now? Assuredly, if shit like this keeps up, more people -will- die, and -are- dying right now.

Because it can work. You need to make it better known what your purpose is: "We are here to stop the violence, not to take colonies or to destroy Islam." And you need to have people who know what they're doing at the helm.

Multi-national force, probably US, UK, Israel. If the US went in Australia, Poland and a few others would probably help also.

Really, it should be the whole world. "Palestine, you are misbehaving and you refuse to shape up, it's time to take you out to the wood shed."

But, we know that economics and anti-Israel sentiment will cure us of that.Hahahaha! Are you serious?! Do you know how badly the Muslim world would EXPLODE if we sent in troops? Any credibility we have left at all would be completely destroyed. Right now we're only dealing with wacko extremists, you really want to piss off a populace of 1.6 Billion?

Plus, where the fuck would these mysterious extra troops come from? Australia is stretched to the limit with Afghanistan, Iraq, The Solomons and East Timor as it is. I'm pretty sure the U.S. isn't doing so hot either.

No shit. We've been trying to solve this shit for the past fifty years and nothing we've done has helped, we're still right where we started, if not worse off.

We used a nuke in WWII because we knew they wouldn't stop fighting unless they got their shit seriously knocked around. If it was a preventative measure then, why not now? Assuredly, if shit like this keeps up, more people -will- die, and -are- dying right now.

Well, that's a great idea, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who would prefer that the people in the Middle East kill each other without any external interference, even if it means they build their own nuclear weapons and nuke the crap out of each other.

That's why a lot of countries (aside from the US) are ok with the idea that Iran builds nukes (and Israel has nukes).

One thing I think people are overlooking is the Shiite/Sunni conflict that is already raging. In Lebanon. In Iraq. The rise of Iranian military power and the coming contest over "who owns the Persian Gulf?"

All Shiite/Sunni conflict that has nothing to do with Jews.

Maybe we should encourage Iran to build nuclear weapons. The sooner they start nuking the place (and we can say, "oh, well, we told them it was a bad idea, but sanctions would have been evil") the better.

Well, that's a great idea, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who would prefer that the people in the Middle East kill each other without any external interference, even if it means they build their own nuclear weapons and nuke the crap out of each other.

That's why a lot of countries (aside from the US) are ok with the idea that Iran builds nukes (and Israel has nukes).

One thing I think people are overlooking is the Shiite/Sunni conflict that is already raging. In Lebanon. In Iraq. The rise of Iranian military power and the coming contest over "who owns the Persian Gulf?"

All Shiite/Sunni conflict that has nothing to do with Jews.

Maybe we should encourage Iran to build nuclear weapons. The sooner they start nuking the place (and we can say, "oh, well, we told them it was a bad idea, but sanctions would have been evil") the better.

Yeah but then they could nuke us as well. The leaders over there are fucking crazy, I don't really trust them with nukes.

Hamas shooting kids for throwing rocks too now? Maybe The Israelis and Palestinians have more in common than we thought! maybe they really can live together!

Hamas shooting kids for throwing rocks too now? Maybe The Israelis and Palestinians have more in common than we thought! maybe they really can live together!

I was thinking the same thing. Can we quote this whenever someone complains about the IDF shooting "kids" for throwing rocks?

Hamas shooting kids for throwing rocks too now? Maybe The Israelis and Palestinians have more in common than we thought! maybe they really can live together!

Yes, Hamas are deliberately murdering children. Who would have thought it? It's so out of character for them...

I found this quote from the BBC website to be particuarly ironic:

"It seems some Fatah leaders are exploiting the blood of innocent children to earn political gains"

I was thinking the same thing. Can we quote this whenever someone complains about the IDF shooting "kids" for throwing rocks?

Well, I suppose it needs a bit of tuning before it gains the apotheoisis of "lolz i quotid u"

"Hamas shooting Palestinian kids for throwing rocks too now? Maybe The Israelis and Palestinians have more in common than we thought! Maybe they really can live together! Maybe Hamas can become part of the Knesset!"

I was thinking the same thing. Can we quote this whenever someone complains about the IDF shooting "kids" for throwing rocks?

No, because just because one side is doing something wrong doesn't mean that the other side is justified in doing something wrong as well.

Both sides are bastards for shooting kids for throwing rocks. So you're free to condemn both sides equally now :)

No, because just because one side is doing something wrong doesn't mean that the other side is justified in doing something wrong as well.

Both sides are bastards for shooting kids for throwing rocks. So you're free to condemn both sides equally now :)

The impression I'm getting from reading the entire thread, and seeing the lack of condemnation from people who in other threads have bashed Israel for killing children, is that aside from Gravlen, some people are apparently hoping this atrocity will silently go away because they can't blame it on the j00z.

No, because just because one side is doing something wrong doesn't mean that the other side is justified in doing something wrong as well.

Both sides are bastards for shooting kids for throwing rocks. So you're free to condemn both sides equally now :)

I'm not trying to justify it in any way. I just like to have something when the pundits cry out about IDF "atrocities" and act like Hamas et al are just innocent partisans.

No, because just because one side is doing something wrong doesn't mean that the other side is justified in doing something wrong as well.

Both sides are bastards for shooting kids for throwing rocks. So you're free to condemn both sides equally now :)

If Hamas and other Palestinian groups didn't recruit children to throw grenades at Israeli troops then there'd probably be far fewer children being shot for rock throwing. That said, I do think that Israel has sometimes been rather reticent when it comes to punishing excessive use of force by troops.

I said this yesterday but:

THESE PEOPLE WANT A STATE!?!?!?!?!?!?

The impression I'm getting from reading the entire thread, and seeing the lack of condemnation from people who in other threads have bashed Israel for killing children, is that aside from Gravlen, some people are apparently hoping this atrocity will silently go away because they can't blame it on the j00z.


You seeing anti-semites under the bed again?

You seeing anti-semites under the bed again?

Nope. Just seeing that the "poor Palestinians" are never to be criticized by those who criticize the j00z.

If Hamas and other Palestinian groups didn't recruit children to throw grenades at Israeli troops then there'd probably be far fewer children being shot for rock throwing. That said, I do think that Israel has sometimes been rather reticent when it comes to punishing excessive use of force by troops.

Ahh yes, "grenades". The fact of that matter is they consider stone throwing legitaiate grounds for use of lethal force. But you make up a story about grenades if it makes you feel better.

Considering Israel has been shooting people for this kind of thing for as long as I can remember, (and far less, come to that) I wouldn't go on the "How now, Brown cow" trail too quick.

I said this yesterday but:

THESE PEOPLE WANT A STATE!?!?!?!?!?!?

It's not so much that they want a state, it's more that they don't want the Jews to have a state.

Nope. Just seeing that the "poor Palestinians" are never to be criticized by those who criticize the j00z.

According to you. The majority of us who criticise the state of Israel beg to differ. If you have specific parties in mind, at least have the balls to name them.

According to you. The majority of us who criticise the state of Israel beg to differ. If you have specific parties in mind, at least have the balls to name them.

Haven't seen you criticize the Palestinians for whacking their own children.

The impression I'm getting from reading the entire thread, and seeing the lack of condemnation from people who in other threads have bashed Israel for killing children, is that aside from Gravlen, some people are apparently hoping this atrocity will silently go away because they can't blame it on the j00z.
Since I can't speak for anybody else, I'll just say I'm glad my condemnation of both sides for the killing of children has been noticed. :)
I'm not trying to justify it in any way. I just like to have something when the pundits cry out about IDF "atrocities" and act like Hamas et al are just innocent partisans.
I see what you mean, I just don't think it's a strong card to play - though it might get the point across. Carry on.

Haven't seen you criticize the Palestinians for whacking their own children.


Really? (http://http://soxkat.com/forums/Antiwar/viewtopic.php?p=13201#13201)

Ahh yes, "grenades". The fact of that matter is they consider stone throwing legitaiate grounds for use of lethal force. But you make up a story about grenades if it makes you feel better.

Considering Israel has been shooting people for this kind of thing for as long as I can remember, (and far less, come to that) I wouldn't go on the "How now, Brown cow" trail too quick.

Made up? Hamas have had a children's brigade since 2002. Come back when you know something about the issue.

Made up? Hamas have had a children's brigade since 2002. Come back when you know something about the issue.

I'm sure they do. However what you said was

If Hamas and other Palestinian groups didn't recruit children to throw grenades at Israeli troops then there'd probably be far fewer children being shot for rock throwing. when in fact they aren't shot because of some brigade of grenade throwing children, but because they throw stones at men with rifles, APCs and tanks. Or because the Israelis feel like making the natives lie down now and again.

Ahh yes, "grenades". The fact of that matter is they consider stone throwing legitaiate grounds for use of lethal force. But you make up a story about grenades if it makes you feel better.

Considering Israel has been shooting people for this kind of thing for as long as I can remember, (and far less, come to that) I wouldn't go on the "How now, Brown cow" trail too quick.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=945

I said this yesterday but:

THESE PEOPLE WANT A STATE!?!?!?!?!?!?
:rolleyes:
Yes. Your point?

I'm to lazy to dig up newspaper articles and quotes on how british people have killed british people, german adults have killed school children, whites in the US have killed blacks in the US - and vice versa. And gangland killings, organised crime, political killings, kidnappings, drive-by's by people who... Guess what? Already have a state!

So again: Your point, please?

There was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups. However, children are used as messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians.17 All the main political groups involve children in this way, including Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.18At least nine children carried out suicide attacks in Israel and the Occupied Territories between October 2000 and March 2004.19 Palestinian non-governmental groups documented the deaths of 30 children actively involved in organized military action from September 2000 to March 2004.20 Most of the deaths occurred as a result of accidents with explosives or during armed clashes with Israeli troops.

From http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=945 as provided by K.

:rolleyes:
Yes. Your point?

I'm to lazy to dig up newspaper articles and quotes on how british people have killed british people, german adults have killed school children, whites in the US have killed blacks in the US - and vice versa. And gangland killings, organised crime, political killings, kidnappings, drive-by's by people who... Guess what? Already have a state!

So again: Your point, please?

At a wild guess - "savages" "want blood" "medieval" etc and so on.

:rolleyes:
Yes. Your point?

I'm to lazy to dig up newspaper articles and quotes on how british people have killed british people, german adults have killed school children, whites in the US have killed blacks in the US - and vice versa. And gangland killings, organised crime, political killings, kidnappings, drive-by's by people who... Guess what? Already have a state!

So again: Your point, please?

His point is that the camel tribe of the arabs can't have a state, because they kill kids, and that only the camel tribe of the israelites can have a state, even though they kill kids too.

http://www.child-soldiers.org/document_get.php?id=945
Thanks for the link - it was an interesting read.

At a wild guess - "savages" "want blood" "medieval" etc and so on.
His point is that the camel tribe of the arabs can't have a state, because they kill kids, and that only the camel tribe of the israelites can have a state, even though they kill kids too.
Yeah, I doubt he's got an actual point either.

I'm sure they do. However what you said was

when in fact they aren't shot because of some brigade of grenade throwing children, but because they throw stones at men with rifles, APCs and tanks. Or because the Israelis feel like making the natives lie down now and again.

I thought my point was obvious but if it wasn't then I apologise. Imagine two possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Palestinian children aren't sent to throw grenades or firebombs at Israeli troops. If an IDF unit see children throwing, or preparing to throw, objects then they can safely assume that the children aren't throwing anything worse than stones.

Scenario 2: Palestinian children are routinely used as soldiers by Hamas and other terrorist groups. When IDF troops see children preparing to throw things at them they have no idea whether they'll be pelted with stones or grenades.

I don't imagine that it's easy to distinguish a medium sized stone from a grenade at a distance. Are you really telling me that you can't see why using children as soldiers will put all children at risk?

This and the sectarian murders in Iraq ought to shoot down the belief that Muslims are all part of a single 3b1l hivemind collective determined to kill nonbelievers and establish a CaliphateÖ, but NSG is addicted to guilt-free demonization and dehumanization.

I thought my point was obvious but if it wasn't then I apologise. Imagine two possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Palestinian children aren't sent to throw grenades or firebombs at Israeli troops. If an IDF unit see children throwing, or preparing to throw, objects then they can safely assume that the children aren't throwing anything worse than stones.

Scenario 2: Palestinian children are routinely used as soldiers by Hamas and other terrorist groups. When IDF troops see children preparing to throw things at them they have no idea whether they'll be pelted with stones or grenades.

I don't imagine that it's easy to distinguish a medium sized stone from a grenade at a distance. Are you really telling me that you can't see why using children as soldiers will put all children at risk?

Scenario one is used as a perfectly acceptable reason to open fire. They don't make any bones about it. In the first intifada they just shot them down in droves, and if they caught them they broke their arms. Now if you want to think they did it because they feared Grenades then off you go...but thats not the reason they give.

Unlike past practice, since the outbreak of the al-Aqsa intifada, the IDF has not issued soldiers serving in the Occupied Territories a booklet containing the Open-Fire Regulations. However, soldiers’ testimonies to B’Tselem, and information published in the media, provide numerous examples of the changes in the Regulations, which greatly increased the situations in which soldiers are allowed to use their firearms. Examples of the changes follow.

The term “life-threatening” is expanded to include situations not previously considered life-threatening, such as stone throwing;

Firing without warning (at certain times and in certain areas) at any Palestinian bearing arms is permitted;

Soldiers are allowed to fire live ammunition to enforce curfew;

Soldiers are required to open fire whenever Palestinians enter places defined as “dangerous areas” (primarily around the Gaza Strip fence);

The IDF is allowed to assassinate Palestinians suspected of having committed attacks against Israelis.
http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/

This and the sectarian murders in Iraq ought to shoot down the belief that Muslims are all part of a single 3b1l hivemind collective determined to kill nonbelievers and establish a CaliphateÖ, but NSG is addicted to guilt-free demonization and dehumanization.
Are Muslims all you ever think about?

According to you. The majority of us who criticise the state of Israel beg to differ. If you have specific parties in mind, at least have the balls to name them.The fact is Nodinia, that while you have gained a level of sophistication in your attacks on Israel, most Palestinians and arabs lack any distinction between Jews and Israel. This can also be seen in many of Israel's more virulent critics. Now I am not including you in this, because you are quite careful about it, which is much appereciated but some others fully deserve to be branded as anti-semites. For example, I was at a panel discussion at my university recently where (in my opinion) legitimate serious criticisms of Israel's tactics in war and military policing were mixed with protocols-of-elders-of-zion-esque conspiracy theories and downright religious sterotyping of the basest kind. Similar behaviour is observed in many members of this forum, who have happened to be resoundingly silent in most of the few threads devoted to this particular incident. I believe this is what Eve is reffering to.

Nodina, what exactly did the Israelis steal from the palestinians? Didn't they run away during the war? THey obviously didn't want their land or they would have stayed, nu?

Nodina, what exactly did the Israelis steal from the palestinians? Didn't they run away during the war? THey obviously didn't want their land or they would have stayed, nu?Some ran away, expecting to return, some were forced to leave. The Palestinians have a long list of unanswered grievances that are unjustifiable. Others of their grievances in my opinion can be justified. But that really isn't the purpose of this thread. Another broad sweep of Israel's history from a million posters with different takes is the last thing this forum needs.

Nodinia, what of the equal if not greater number of Jews who were forced away by threat of death in Arab nations?

Israel absorbed them despite lacking the infrastructure to take them in. Oh by the way, many of them were successful merchants (such as the parents of my Rabbi). Her parents lost a nice home and business when they were forced to leave and don't expect to get anything back nor do they ask for it.

hey, my point is taht Hamas, and to a larger extent Palestinians, and to an even greater extent Arabs- have a history of doing stupid things and expecting that they will get good results.

Example: Israel offers a settlement. Palestine (Hamas) refuses, demands that Israel be wiped from the face of the Earth. Hamas attacks Israel with human bomb attack. Kills 3. Israel gives up asking for peace process and goes offensive. Israel attacks with supra orbital whizbangs, killing 300. THis makes sense? This will win a war...how?

Arabs have been doing this as long as I can remember. Read Lawrence of Arabia. During WWI and II they would murder allies or Axis, then act surprised when said dead peoples mates came looking fo revenge. There just seems to be a lack of ability to think going on in the middle east- Emotion is too valueable.

If your only demand is taht Israel cease to exist, you are going to lose the war. Put something on the table. Signal some willingness to work here. Otherwise they will just kill a bunch more of you. And really REALLY don't kill your children any more. THat's just not very smart.

I swear Paleestine reminds me of a drunk in a bar. You grab his hair to keep him from hitting you. He swings and punches the wall. You knee him in the groin. He punches himself in the face. You push him away again. He never actually hurts you, but he gets to hollar a lot and beat his own face in.

Interestingly enough for me this happened in Gaza where the Israeli's have withdrawn leaving me to wonder if this infighting would be even more common if they actually succeeded in the elimination of the state of Israel, would a new Palestine tear itself to pieces? What a marvellous irony that would be.

Nodinia, what of the equal if not greater number of Jews who were forced away by threat of death in Arab nations?

Israel absorbed them despite lacking the infrastructure to take them in. Oh by the way, many of them were successful merchants (such as the parents of my Rabbi). Her parents lost a nice home and business when they were forced to leave and don't expect to get anything back nor do they ask for it.


A million (roughly, as I'm going on memory)arrived between 1948 and 1967. Many did indeed flee due to either official or unofficial persecution and mob violence. A crime, particularily stupid and brutal in nature.

Interestingly enough for me this happened in Gaza where the Israeli's have withdrawn leaving me to wonder if this infighting would be even more common if they actually succeeded in the elimination of the state of Israel, would a new Palestine tear itself to pieces? What a marvellous irony that would be.


Actually, most states who emerge after some conflict or sudden transition go through a civil war..or two. Its nearly par for the course.

The fact is Nodinia, that while you have gained a level of sophistication in your attacks on Israel, most Palestinians and arabs lack any distinction between Jews and Israel. This can also be seen in many of Israel's more virulent critics. Now I am not including you in this, because you are quite careful about it, which is much appereciated but some others fully deserve to be branded as anti-semites. For example, I was at a panel discussion at my university recently where (in my opinion) legitimate serious criticisms of Israel's tactics in war and military policing were mixed with protocols-of-elders-of-zion-esque conspiracy theories and downright religious sterotyping of the basest kind. Similar behaviour is observed in many members of this forum, who have happened to be resoundingly silent in most of the few threads devoted to this particular incident. I believe this is what Eve is reffering to.

This is unfortunately true. However its equally unfortunate - and equally true - that the term "anti-semite" is greatly misused and abused in a calculated manner.

Are Muslims all you ever think about?

Not any more than the people who post all the "Islam is Intolerant," "Islam is Violent" and "Muslims Kill Again" threads here online.

hey, my point is taht Hamas, and to a larger extent Palestinians, and to an even greater extent Arabs- have a history of doing stupid things and expecting that they will get good results.

Example: Israel offers a settlement. Palestine (Hamas) refuses, demands that Israel be wiped from the face of the Earth. Hamas attacks Israel with human bomb attack. Kills 3. Israel gives up asking for peace process and goes offensive. Israel attacks with supra orbital whizbangs, killing 300. THis makes sense? This will win a war...how?

Arabs have been doing this as long as I can remember. Read Lawrence of Arabia. During WWI and II they would murder allies or Axis, then act surprised when said dead peoples mates came looking fo revenge. There just seems to be a lack of ability to think going on in the middle east- Emotion is too valueable.

If your only demand is taht Israel cease to exist, you are going to lose the war. Put something on the table. Signal some willingness to work here. Otherwise they will just kill a bunch more of you. And really REALLY don't kill your children any more. THat's just not very smart.

I swear Paleestine reminds me of a drunk in a bar. You grab his hair to keep him from hitting you. He swings and punches the wall. You knee him in the groin. He punches himself in the face. You push him away again. He never actually hurts you, but he gets to hollar a lot and beat his own face in.

I am not going to get into the rights or wrongs of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict etc - but I can't help think the Palestinians are going about it the wrong way.

If I was a Palestinian. I would stop all hostilities towards Israel. Make peace with Israel on the existing "borders". I would make the best out of what I have. I would take all the money offered to me from the "international community". I would build nice homes for all the refugees currently "waiting patiently to claim the land they believe to be theirs" on the land I do posess. I would create an infrastructure of agriculture and industry for the Palestinian people to work on and to be able to feed and clothe themselves.
Then (and only then) if the people of Palestine still wanted it, I would build myself a huge technologically advanced army and then try to wage war against my neighbour to claim back what I thought was mine.

I certainly wouldn't do it with children, stones, dodgy homemade rockets etc.

It is a bit similar to Afghanistan and Iraq. If I was an "insurgent"/Taliban - I'd stop the fighting. Wait until the USA and allies thought it was okay to leave, let them pat each other on the back. Then I'd move back in and start kicking up a stink again - knowing full well they aren't going to come back! But that's for a different topic. :headbang: