NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you consider to be a Police State? I keep hearing some people act like the USA is either on the verge of becoming or are a Police State. Is it because we're a Nation of Laws? Is it due to certain Legislation? Why are some people claiming the USA is becoming a Police State?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_State

To those who claim the USA is or on a verge of a Police State, please give legitimate sources of proof.

Have fun. Discuss.

The reason people say its almost a police state tho is because there isnt really that much proof, its just a general feeling people get due to a large series of overly harsh laws, like the ludicrously high drinking age, and the fact that whenever there is a natural disaster the army are sent in (and army guys are notoriously harsh with civilians).

Two words: Patriot Act.

Two words: Patriot Act.

Three more words: Military Commissions Act.

Three more words: Military Commissions Act.
I use fewer words. Nyah! :p

The US is less a police state that many other western countries, but its laws are becoming more and more suited to one. The patriot and military commisions act are great examples. You could also point out recent police actions like Waco and the urban military exercises where soldiers were trained and to subdue our own citizens (forget the name of that one).The national ID act and more public supervision is also toward the police state trend.

Well, the point that the secret agencies seem to be all-knowing and that you're having less privacy, because you're being watched constantly by people from the government.
And that there anti-foreigner laws, which weren't there a couple of years ago, might give some people the feeling that the USA is a police state.

And wikipedia isn't really always correct you now, every one can put something on it, so don't use it if you search for the definition of police state (or anything else).

how about this...

A police state is a state with authority which uses the police, especially secret police, to maintain and enforce political power, even through violent or arbitrary means if necessary. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism or other harsh means of social control. In a police state the police are not subject to the rule of law in an emergency and there is no meaningful distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

Secret police are a police organization which operates in secrecy for the national purpose of maintaining national security against internal threats to the state. Secret police forces are typically associated with totalitarian regimes, as their activities are not transparent to the public, their primary purpose is to maintain the political power of the state rather than uphold the rule of law, and they have often been used as an instrument of political repression.


Political power is a type of power held by a person or group in a society. There are many ways to hold such power. Officially, political power is held by the or holders of the sovereignty. Political powers are not limited to heads of states, however, and the extent to which a person or group holds such power is related to the amount of societal influence they can wield, formally or informally.

Totalitarianism is a term employed by political scientists, especially those in the field of comparative politics, to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior. The most influential scholars of totalitarianism, such as Karl Popper, Hannah Arendt, Carl Friedrich, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Juan Linz have each described totalitarianism in a slightly different way. Common to all definitions is the attempt to mobilize entire populations in support of the state and a political or religious ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, such as involvement with labour unions, non-sanctioned churches or opposition political parties.

that's about it.

just realised i've got a meeting in 20 mins so i can't finish this off now will try later.

The current gov. in the USA and done all of the above in the last couple of years. Although i don't think they are a police state, there are similarities.

The USA a Police State, lol, move to cuba and
find out what a real Police State is, lol.

-snip-

And wikipedia isn't really always correct you now, every one can put something on it, so don't use it if you search for the definition of police state (or anything else).

That's what I thought but wasn't sure if they had some sort of researchers that double checked the facts. I suppose I assumed it were accurate since a lot on NSG uses it has a "legitimate" source but if what you say is true, I'll definately find better sources from here on out. Thanks.

I will disagree with those against the "Military Commission" and the "Patriot Act" I realize that they both are very contraversial Acts, I have researched them both thoroughly and do not find them to be directly targetting the average civilian. I find them both to be directed at giving our Law Enforcement Agencies the much needed Tools to find and enforce our Laws against those who are determined in murdering the innocent civilians around the world.

Al-Queda isn't a myth, they are real and spread throughout the world. There are many other terrorist organizations both domestically and internationally. I don't feel that the proper tactic to defeat terrorism is to pretend that it isn't a threat and to pretend it doesn't exist. I don't feel that the proper way to battle terrorism is to do nothing.

As both acts mentioned above may not be perfect as this is a world full of imperfections but atleast it's a step to better our Law Enforcement with the proper communications and knowledge to better deal with the Terrorists threat.

As for the USA, we for the most part, have taken for granted our Freedoms and are spoiled (generally speaking) Our Law Enforcement Agencies must have better Intel and Tools to better protect us from the ones who are determined to murder.

I find them both to be directed at giving our Law Enforcement Agencies the much needed Tools...

such as the ability to abduct people off the street and disappear them into a hole with no outside contact, let alone legal recourse, indefinitely. and should anyone feel like ever taking them out of that hole (not required ever), they can have all the benefits of a military show trial and execution on the basis of secret evidence obtained from torture and from secret witness.

I will disagree with those against the "Military Commission" and the "Patriot Act" I realize that they both are very contraversial Acts, I have researched them both thoroughly and do not find them to be directly targetting the average civilian. I find them both to be directed at giving our Law Enforcement Agencies the much needed Tools to find and enforce our Laws against those who are determined in murdering the innocent civilians around the world.

Al-Queda isn't a myth, they are real and spread throughout the world. There are many other terrorist organizations both domestically and internationally. I don't feel that the proper tactic to defeat terrorism is to pretend that it isn't a threat and to pretend it doesn't exist. I don't feel that the proper way to battle terrorism is to do nothing.

As both acts mentioned above may not be perfect as this is a world full of imperfections but atleast it's a step to better our Law Enforcement with the proper communications and knowledge to better deal with the Terrorists threat.

As for the USA, we for the most part, have taken for granted our Freedoms and are spoiled (generally speaking) Our Law Enforcement Agencies must have better Intel and Tools to better protect us from the ones who are determined to murder.

I don't agree. No one is saying that al-queda isn't a threat. What they are saying is that the laws go too far and are unnessasary. Seriously, why does the government need to wiretap people without warrants when they are quite easy to come by?

And as for saying that it probably won't be used against american citizens have you heard of a little thing called COINTELPRO? Your countries' government has a history of paranoia towards those who disagree with it.

A Police State is suppose to be a country/region which has most of their freedoms restricted in the name of Security. America is in some ways like this, considering they can listen to your phone conversations, check your mail and read your e-mails all in the name of Security against terrorism.

A Police State is suppose to be a country/region which has most of their freedoms restricted in the name of Security. America is in some ways like this, considering they can listen to your phone conversations, check your mail and read your e-mails all in the name of Security against terrorism.

I make the fuckers work for their money if they want my email.

They are good but cracking is very very processing inefficient

The USA a Police State, lol, move to cuba and
find out what a real Police State is, lol.

Spoken like a true American. I doubt Cuba taps it's citizens phones and keeps tabs on them. And the Cold War ended years ago.

A Police State is suppose to be a country/region which has most of their freedoms restricted in the name of Security. America is in some ways like this, considering they can listen to your phone conversations, check your mail and read your e-mails all in the name of Security against terrorism.

its even worse than that. the government claims it has the power to abduct people off the street and hold them without charge (or really any reason at all) in any undisclosed location of their choosing for as long as they like. in fact, they've done so multiple times. once you have that situation, then there literally is no freedom to be had. all there is are actions that don't annoy the government enough to disappear you yet.

Spoken like a true American. I doubt Cuba taps your phones and keeps tabs on all its citizens. And the Cold War ended years ago.


Why would the Cuban government tap the phones of Americans... living in America?

Why would the Cuban government tap the phones of Americans... living in America?

*dons monocle*

Poor show, old chap!

Trilby63;12069640']*dons monocle*

Poor show, old chap!

I will not tolerate such an assault on my character sirrah! It was a perfectly legitimate question!

Edited to refute any other attempts of lame humour :p

Edited to refute any other attempts of lame humour :p

I'll have you know that pretending to be upper-british class and wearing a monocle is the height of comedy!

Besides, monocles are coming back! They're are the new black!

What do you consider to be a Police State? I keep hearing some people act like the USA is either on the verge of becoming or are a Police State. Is it because we're a Nation of Laws? Is it due to certain Legislation? Why are some people claiming the USA is becoming a Police State?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_State

To those who claim the USA is or on a verge of a Police State, please give legitimate sources of proof.

Have fun. Discuss.

Not a Police State. Corporate Welfare State is much closer to the truth.

The national ID act is one of the most unconstitutional and unethical bills ever passed.

It has provisions in it that give Homeland Security nearly unlimited power.

A much simpler question to ask is this:

When the police go about their duties, do they act as an arm of the legisaltive body? And do they act in such a way that they can not be held accountable to the law?

If conditions exist in the US that allow you to answer yes to both questions, you're fucked. Come on up to Canada. Gay marriage is legal, and the decriminalisation of prostitution and marijuana is on the horizon.

The reason in short that people say the US is a police state or becoming a police state is either a) they want to saying something bombastic or b) they are idiots and have no idea what a police state is.

I have never lived in a police state, but did live in an authoritarian state. And the US is not even close to that.

Does the US government own or control 100% the media? Is there a single political party? Are elections not held oir if they are there is a single candidate running for office? Are people who oppose the government vanish or arrested and sent to prison or into exile?

I doubt anyone can seriously compare a true police or authoritarian state to the US.

If anyone does, please simply ignore them since their opinions are obviously worthless.

A much simpler question to ask is this:

When the police go about their duties, do they act as an arm of the legisaltive body? And do they act in such a way that they can not be held accountable to the law?

they do seem to routinely get away with blasting the fuck out of unarmed people of color, which is technically illegal even for them.

the reality is that while the state may not engage in a huge amount of secret political policing, they have the legal right to do so. federal and local authorities have arbitrary powers and answerable only to the executive.

that makes you a police state. at least if they decide to crank it up a few notches.

The reason in short that people say the US is a police state or becoming a police state is either a) they want to saying something bombastic or b) they are idiots and have no idea what a police state is.

I have never lived in a police state, but did live in an authoritarian state. And the US is not even close to that.

Does the US government own or control 100% the media? Is there a single political party? Are elections not held oir if they are there is a single candidate running for office? Are people who oppose the government vanish or arrested and sent to prison or into exile?

I doubt anyone can seriously compare a true police or authoritarian state to the US.

If anyone does, please simply ignore them since their opinions are obviously worthless.



whoops, you lose. no-one is saying the US is authoritarian. they are asking does it correspond to the technical definition of a police state as in the wiki article. and arbitrary and secret are words that crop up in that definition.

the reality is that while the state may not engage in a huge amount of secret political policing, they have the legal right to do so. federal and local authorities have arbitrary powers and answerable only to the executive.

that makes you a police state. at least if they decide to crank it up a few notches.

exactly. the powers that the government currently claims are precisely the powers of a police state. the fact that thus far they haven't used them on too terribly large of a scale does not and cannot change that.

I will disagree with those against the "Military Commission" and the "Patriot Act" I realize that they both are very contraversial Acts, I have researched them both thoroughly and do not find them to be directly targetting the average civilian. I find them both to be directed at giving our Law Enforcement Agencies the much needed Tools to find and enforce our Laws against those who are determined in murdering the innocent civilians around the world.

Al-Queda isn't a myth, they are real and spread throughout the world. There are many other terrorist organizations both domestically and internationally. I don't feel that the proper tactic to defeat terrorism is to pretend that it isn't a threat and to pretend it doesn't exist. I don't feel that the proper way to battle terrorism is to do nothing.

As both acts mentioned above may not be perfect as this is a world full of imperfections but atleast it's a step to better our Law Enforcement with the proper communications and knowledge to better deal with the Terrorists threat.

As for the USA, we for the most part, have taken for granted our Freedoms and are spoiled (generally speaking) Our Law Enforcement Agencies must have better Intel and Tools to better protect us from the ones who are determined to murder.
Why should we give up our freedoms to stop terrorists? Honestly (and this is coming from someone impacted by 9/11), terrorism kills very few people yearly. It is attrocious, but that is the fact of it. These laws have too many catches and too many ways they can be abused.
The point of terrorism is to force someone to change how they live. I refuse to live in fear of the day someone might bomb the building I'm in. the chances, even with me living in a major city, are slim to none. I'd much prefer my freedoms, which, after all, is what we claim to be fighting for. You can't fight for freedom while you simultaneously get rid of it.

Are elections not held oir if they are there is a single candidate running for office?

there are 2 candidates running for office, and the only thing they oppose more than each other are third candidates.


Are people who oppose the government vanish or arrested and sent to prison or into exile?
secret CIA prisons and guantanamo ...