NationStates Jolt Archive

So this just upset me:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1968577,00.html

From genocide in Rwanda to the agonies of Darfur, the world seems paralysed when called upon to make the really big gesture. It seems equally reticent when asked to provide comparatively modest financial support to those doing their best to make a difference for the growing numbers of uprooted and dispossessed people......

We (The International Community) must surely have some kind of committment to the refugees in Darfur and those displaced by conflict in DRofC etc.

Half a billion quid (a billion dollars) to save 20 million lives and it won't happen.

Why does our richesse mean that we (again the International Community) are so egoistical that we cannot see beyond our own success and help those who haven't had the same luck to be born/live in the Developed World?

So saddened by this article. Anyone else feel the same? Or do people not care about the fact that the UNHCR won't get the cash it needs? Am I overreacting?

Yup, sadness.:(

*bump*

And I've never done that for a thread that I started. I just think this is more interesting and relevant than destroying criik thousands of times over....

The Western world has become so decadent and materialist that our morality is vanishing.

The Western world has become so decadent and materialist that our morality is vanishing.

But the £500 million is not a lot. It is a fraction of what European, North American and other 'Western' countries could give.

It would save countless lives and create homes for millions of refugees: it's just logic to give this guy the money that he asks for year after year. It is totally beyond me. Makes me want to weep.

:( :(

Its not easy to grasp, the crisis over there. When the Boxing Day Tsunami hit, it was us against nature and people can handle that. Its easier than having to worry about sides, and right and wrong like you do with Darfur. People don't want to worry. Sucks, I know.

Look at all the money we've poured into Africa in the past. It's served no purpose other than to prop up unpopular regimes or fill the coffers of petty tyrants like Mobutu, Bongo, Bokassa, Abacha, Siad Barre, Banda, Moi, etc. We've poured billions and billions into the continent, only to see the countries get poorer and poorer. I don't see how tossing more money at the problem will change things.

Africa's problems do not stem from insufficient aid, but from bad governance.

Look at all the money we've poured into Africa in the past. It's served no purpose other than to prop up unpopular regimes or fill the coffers of petty tyrants like Mobutu, Bongo, Bokassa, Abacha, Siad Barre, Banda, Moi, etc. We've poured billions and billions into the continent, only to see the countries get poorer and poorer. I don't see how tossing more money at the problem will change things.

Africa's problems do not stem from insufficient aid, but from bad governance.

Must be pretty bad governance if the government has to resort to genocide.

Look at all the money we've poured into Africa in the past. It's served no purpose other than to prop up unpopular regimes or fill the coffers of petty tyrants like Mobutu, Bongo, Bokassa, Abacha, Siad Barre, Banda, Moi, etc. We've poured billions and billions into the continent, only to see the countries get poorer and poorer. I don't see how tossing more money at the problem will change things.

Africa's problems do not stem from insufficient aid, but from bad governance.

This, specifically, does not pertain to aid to governments but to an International organisation that help to protect refugees from conflict all over the world.

Read the article Congo - it is humanity at its worst that governments won't fund the UNHCR: it should be done without the bat of an eyelid.

As to your point; maybe clearing the debt of the Thirld World and creating transparent trading laws for big Western Multi-nationals would mean that governments actually use the money given (although I dispute that this has been tossed in without a thought) in a more productive way (plus I thought you were moving more toward a centrist viewpoint on this kind of thing...)

The last time the US tried to help a downtrodden, brutally oppressed people and ameliorate their suffering, the US was criticized by the "international community" left and right. We're not in a hurry to do that again.

The last time the US tried to help a downtrodden, brutally oppressed people and ameliorate their suffering, the US was criticized by the "international community" left and right. We're not in a hurry to do that again.

Got nothing to do with Iraq or the US specifically, read the article or alternatively if you cannot be bothered to read the article and would rather flame:


So long buddy-boy/gal.:D

I think the best way to help Africa is to forgive the debt they owe the West, embark on massive cultural exchange programs with them, send advisors to advise their governments on health, economics, agriculture, etc. end unfair trade policies, and work harder to encourage transparency in their governments.

The Western world has become so decadent and materialist that our morality is vanishing.

vanishing? it never existed. I say this as a bleeding heart, myself, but when did we ever have morality on a large scale? 150 years ago we were in the middle of genocide in the americas and colonialism in europe. there was never some golden age of morality that everybody keeps referencing back to. humanity has always been this self-serving and petty.

But the £500 million is not a lot. It is a fraction of what European, North American and other 'Western' countries could give.

It would save countless lives and create homes for millions of refugees: it's just logic to give this guy the money that he asks for year after year. It is totally beyond me. Makes me want to weep.

:( :(

do the genocide victims juggle? maybe they can sing really well? potential career in porn? if its not entertaining people aren't going to take time to do anything. they're too busy doing....well, running around in circles and then unwinding from the pointless strain they put themselves through all day to maintain a not terribly satisfying lifestyle.

The last time the US tried to help a downtrodden, brutally oppressed people and ameliorate their suffering, the US was criticized by the "international community" left and right. We're not in a hurry to do that again.

oh bullshit. we were trying to help the poor poor iraqis by allying ourselves with the uzbek regime, right? that dictator that boils political dissenters alive? our choice of friends belies any claims of humanitarian interest in iraq. if you think anything else you have been deceived.

Why does our richesse mean that we (again the International Community) are so egoistical that we cannot see beyond our own success and help those who haven't had the same luck to be born/live in the Developed World?

So saddened by this article. Anyone else feel the same? Or do people not care about the fact that the UNHCR won't get the cash it needs? Am I overreacting?

I certainly share your sentiments, but I think the main problem here is that it's not about if people do or do not care about the "Third World", it's about if governments do.
The UNHCR gets (or doesn't get, as it is) their money from governments, not in the form of personal donations from you or me, like the Red Cross or Oxfam or other organisations.

So this just upset me:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1968577,00.html



We (The International Community) must surely have some kind of committment to the refugees in Darfur and those displaced by conflict in DRofC etc.

Half a billion quid (a billion dollars) to save 20 million lives and it won't happen.

Why does our richesse mean that we (again the International Community) are so egoistical that we cannot see beyond our own success and help those who haven't had the same luck to be born/live in the Developed World?

So saddened by this article. Anyone else feel the same? Or do people not care about the fact that the UNHCR won't get the cash it needs? Am I overreacting?

well I for one don't give a shit. goes to show that people are fundamentally bad.

It's a combination of donor fatigue and cynicism.

The west continues to give and give, but we've come under the impression that while there is some progress, overall, there is regression.

Donor fatigue comes from charities asking and asking for donations for this disaster and this famine. After a while, the generous even become a little tired of it because they have just kept giving and giving.

To those who give, when the demand remains, it makes us wonder just what has been accomplished by the charities who have taken our donations for a good cause...

People are incapable of caring about things that aren't immediately visible to them. The christmas tree example he uses, for instance: the cash that Britons spend on Christmas trees returns an immediate result, a garish piece of flora sitting in the middle of their living rooms, but money poured into the Third World provides little or nothing that people can point to and say: "Yeah, I did that."
At best, they get to read a human interest story in the newspaper (one of about 30 or 40 that will be published in that day's paper alone) about a refugee who now has a home, followed by some meaningless statistic about ever so many thousands or millions of people who were saved from probable death.

And, no, that's not caused by some deficiency in the West, it is just the way that humans are biologically wired. It is no more terrible on their part than it is terrible that they don't fly down to Darfur and deal with the problem Superman-style.

Must be pretty bad governance if the government has to resort to genocide.

That's a combination of bad governance with religion and/or nationalism.

well I for one don't give a shit. goes to show that people are fundamentally bad.

I'm Glad to see there are still people in the world who aren't afraid to be honest. Why should I care about people on the other side of the world when that money could go towards improving my local public transit system?

I'm Glad to see there are still people in the world who aren't afraid to be honest. Why should I care about people on the other side of the world when that money could go towards improving my local public transit system?
Or the healthcare system? Or our crumbling schools?

Or the healthcare system? Or our crumbling schools?

Exactly.

The Western world has become so decadent and materialist that our morality is vanishing.

Thank god.