NationStates Jolt Archive

Although I might wait for the mail tomorrow.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20905392-661,00.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/48000-students-hope-to-join-passing-parade/2006/12/10/1165685554745.html

I'd be thrilled with a 60. But I'm not so sure...

99.95 - what an odd figure.

Seems odd, but it complies with my personal philosophy; nothing is perfect.

I'd be thrilled with a 60. But I'm not so sure...

Since the majority of people simply don't care about their end of year results (because they don't want to go on to university), the bare minimum of effort should get you at least that.

Since the majority of people simply don't care about their end of year results (because they don't want to go on to university), the bare minimum of effort should get you at least that.

A 70 gets me into Swinburne Uni. A 60, IMO, should get me to TAFE.

I think I did very well at Information Systems, so I'm imagining myself as the ultimate paradox; a 40+ study score for IS, but an ENTER of 30.

whats the average score?

whats the average score?

I heard somewhere that it's at least above 50, because the lower ranks are filled by dropouts, who are still counted in the ENTER for some reason.

What interests me is that Neu Leonstein got a Queensland OP 2, which is the equivalent of an ENTER of 97.50, but he doesn't think it's a big deal.

What interests me is that Neu Leonstein got a Queensland OP 2, which is the equivalent of an ENTER of 97.50, but he doesn't think it's a big deal.

So, is that kind of an SAT for Australia (college entrance standardized tests?). Well, when you're surrounded by kids who get perfect scores (1600s, roughly equivalent to an ENTER of 99.95 I think) a 1580 (statisically the same thing) doesn't look very good.

So, is that kind of an SAT for Australia (college entrance standardized tests?). Well, when you're surrounded by kids who get perfect scores (1600s, roughly equivalent to an ENTER of 99.95 I think) a 1580 (statisically the same thing) doesn't look very good.

Pretty much, although it's a ranked system, not a score system.

whats the average score?

It's meant to be a percentile score. eg, an ENTER score of 60 would ordinarily mean that the student is in the top 40%.

Except not really, because arts and humanities students generally recieve penalties to their marks, so it's a bit misleading. (and apparently, after hearing my brother carry on about it for a bit, students can lose marks if their school's average score is low, but the system is ridiculously complex so I have no idea if that's true.)

It's meant to be a percentile score. eg, an ENTER score of 60 would ordinarily mean that the student is in the top 40%.

Except not really, because arts and humanities students generally recieve penalties to their marks, so it's a bit misleading. (and apparently, after hearing my brother carry on about it for a bit, students can lose marks if their school's average score is low, but the system is ridiculously complex so I have no idea if that's true.)

sounds very complex. no wonder tpf is a bit on edge about it.

but if average is around 50 with dullards taking the test, shouldnt anyone who actually tries get a 60 or more?

It's meant to be a percentile score. eg, an ENTER score of 60 would ordinarily mean that the student is in the top 40%.

Except not really, because arts and humanities students generally recieve penalties to their marks, so it's a bit misleading. (and apparently, after hearing my brother carry on about it for a bit, students can lose marks if their school's average score is low, but the system is ridiculously complex so I have no idea if that's true.)

I heard that arts subjects get marked down a lot, because their folios are like having an exam over the whole year.

My top two subjects (IS and Revs) get bumped up, so I'm pleased about that.

sounds very complex. no wonder tpf is a bit on edge about it.

but if average is around 50 with dullards taking the test, shouldnt anyone who actually tries get a 60 or more?

Well, since it's a ranking system, there is no average. What I assume they meant is that a student who performs average in all their subjects would get above 50.

I heard that arts subjects get marked down a lot, because their folios are like having an exam over the whole year.

My top two subjects (IS and Revs) get bumped up, so I'm pleased about that.

Oh? When I did History: Revolutions, I lost 4 points off my study score. (that's an 8% markdown, for the benefit of others, bringing me from A level down to a B.) I was penalised in all of my subjects apart from Japanese, so I lost a lot of points off my ENTER score even though I got A's and A+'s in all of my exams (except, ironically, for Japanese, which I only managed a C in.)

Just remember though, when they publish markdowns, that's for the year previous. Your year could be different; that's how I was caught out.

Oh? When I did History: Revolutions, I lost 4 points off my study score. (that's an 8% markdown, for the benefit of others, bringing me from A level down to a B.) I was penalised in all of my subjects apart from Japanese, so I lost a lot of points off my ENTER score even though I got A's and A+'s in all of my exams (except, ironically, for Japanese, which I only managed a C in.)

Just remember though, when they publish markdowns, that's for the year previous. Your year could be different; that's how I was caught out.

Good point. I basically assume that harder subjects get bumped up. I'm pretty sure IS will get bumped up, at least.

Also, a friend told me that any real effort in English is good, because most people only do it for the pass. True or not?

99.95 - what an odd figure.

Perhaps every Australian loses a mark for mispelling their name on the front page. Like, they would write down 'Bruce Wollabong', but them some secretive organisation in Canberra with a huge database of how name's are really spelt would look it over and say, "no! That juvenile has mispelt his name, it should be spely Qthgagn Fwukaqthigf!"

And that's how H. P. Lovecraft took over Australia... umm... what were we talking about again?

Perhaps every Australian loses a mark for mispelling their name on the front page. Like, they would write down 'Bruce Wollabong', but them some secretive organisation in Canberra with a huge database of how name's are really spelt would look it over and say, "no! That juvenile has mispelt his name, it should be spely Qthgagn Fwukaqthigf!"

And that's how H. P. Lovecraft took over Australia... umm... what were we talking about again?

Please, don't say "Bruce Wollabong" again. I don't think the Universe could withstand that sort of punishment.

but if average is around 50 with dullards taking the test, shouldnt anyone who actually tries get a 60 or more?

In most cases, yes, but if a student performs merely to an average level and is unwise about his or her subject choices, they can be penalised harshly.

Good point. I basically assume that harder subjects get bumped up. I'm pretty sure IS will get bumped up, at least.

Nope, that's not it at all. Year 12 History, for example, is not objectively more or less difficult to study than year 12 Chemistry. At VCE level, the workload between different subjects is expected to be balanced (of course, some students are better at chem over history and vice versa, so one would seem "harder" to them - the only real exceptions to this rule are the three maths courses, because most university science degrees treat maths methods as a prerequisite, so it's something people in that field of study have to do anyway - further maths is the layman's alternative). The markdowns don't take into consideration the course structures, but instead look at the popularity of the courses - if the bureaucrats that work for VCAA decide that too many people are studying history, they'll throw in a markdown to dissuade future students and raise the alternative subjects proportionally. Or at least, that's the common belief perpetuated by my teachers back then, some of whom were also exam markers - because VCAA doesn't actually release any information on how they work out these markdowns. (Or at least they certainly didn't when I was studying year 12. )

Also, a friend told me that any real effort in English is good, because most people only do it for the pass. True or not?

I would say that's more so than other subjects, since it's compulsory. Still, everyone studying year 12 has made the conscious choice that they want to be there in the first place, so...

In most cases, yes, but if a student performs merely to an average level and is unwise about his or her subject choices, they can be penalised harshly.

so a reasonalby intelligent student who worked reasonably hard in school could end up getting a score too low to get into any university?

so a reasonalby intelligent student who worked reasonably hard in school could end up getting a score too low to get into any university?

Yep.

Unless they paid up-front, because you're pretty much guaranteed entry regardless of marks if you have the cash.

if the bureaucrats that work for VCAA decide that too many people are studying history, they'll throw in a markdown to dissuade future students and raise the alternative subjects proportionally.

If my school is an indicator, it could be marked up; we had one class of Revs, and it wasn't a big one.

Except not really, because arts and humanities students generally recieve penalties to their marks

Oh? When I did History: Revolutions, I lost 4 points off my study score. (that's an 8% markdown, for the benefit of others, bringing me from A level down to a B.) I was penalised in all of my subjects apart from Japanese, so I lost a lot of points off my ENTER score even though I got A's and A+'s in all of my exams (except, ironically, for Japanese, which I only managed a C in.)

Holy crap. Zou know, the more I hear about how zour szstem works, the more I can understand zour cznical pessimism about being an arts student.
I had NO idea it was this bad.

:( :mad:


Oh, and apparentlz mz czber lisp is back. Great. :rolleyes:

Holy crap. Zou know, the more I hear about how zour szstem works, the more I can understand zour cznical pessimism about being an arts student.
I had NO idea it was this bad.

It's like I said; arts get marked down, because the folios they make during the year are like having an exam over the whole year.

It's like I said; arts get marked down, because the folios they make during the year are like having an exam over the whole year.
What|s a folio_
Are zou sazing thez onlz have 1 exam per zear while other subjects have more and because of that are judged @harder@_

But that doesn|t make sense / whz don|t the arts simplz have more exams, too, then_

Gah, sorrz, I|ll restart the computer, this sucks. :(

I've spent the last couple of hours counting the odds. Out of 48,282 students, if 7000 get 90+, and 14,000 get 80+, where does that leave me?

Yep.

Unless they paid up-front, because you're pretty much guaranteed entry regardless of marks if you have the cash.

wow that sucks.

do you know the percent of those wanting to go to university get in without the upfront cash?

I've spent the last couple of hours counting the odds. Out of 48,282 students, if 7000 get 90+, and 14,000 get 80+, where does that leave me?

how much longer before you can find out your score?

What|s a folio_
Are zou sazing thez onlz have 1 exam per zear while other subjects have more and because of that are judged @harder@_

But that doesn|t make sense / whz don|t the arts simplz have more exams, too, then_

Every subject has one exam (except the Maths, they have two). But the arts (and I mean painting, graphics, etc.), have portfolios of their work they develop over the year, which heavily influences their marks. Their exams are on art techniques, and since a lot of the subjects' weight is based on the actual work, these exams are worth less than others.

how much longer before you can find out your score?

About 50 minutes. Not counting any troubles I'll have getting onto the score site.

Holy crap. Zou know, the more I hear about how zour szstem works, the more I can understand zour cznical pessimism about being an arts student.
I had NO idea it was this bad.

:( :mad:

Meh. I can always go back and do something else if my pessimistic forecast turns out to be accurate.

Oh, and apparentlz mz czber lisp is back. Great. :rolleyes:

o.O


wow that sucks.

do you know the percent of those wanting to go to university get in without the upfront cash?

I have no idea. I haven't seen any studies documenting the people who miss out. TPF's earlier estimate of 70 being the bottom mark to get into uni is pretty accurate, though - some uni's go down to about 60, but mostly rural ones. At the end of the day, however, everyone who really wants to go to uni can probably get into a run-of-the-mill course, even if it means repeating the last year of high school.

The full-fee payers are mostly law and medicine students, since the required mark for some of those courses is 99 and up, keeping them far out of reach for the vast majority of people. But even a basic arts degree requires something like an ENTER score of 90 at a good uni now, and most universities are expanding their full-fee placements and cutting back on the students who are using the government loan system instead (nearly everyone at the moment).

Every subject has one exam (except the Maths, they have two). But the arts (and I mean painting, graphics, etc.), have portfolios of their work they develop over the year, which heavily influences their marks. Their exams are on art techniques, and since a lot of the subjects' weight is based on the actual work, these exams are worth less than others.

Oh, I was meaning "arts" as in the humanities arts - anything that doesn't fall under science/maths, such as history or English.

Anyway, i'm going to bed - good luck! I'm sure you'll do okay. :)

I have no idea. I haven't seen any studies documenting the people who miss out. TPF's earlier estimate of 70 being the bottom mark to get into uni is pretty accurate, though

A 70 is what I need for my course, specifically. It really is a course-to-course thing.

Oh, I was meaning "arts" as in the humanities arts - anything that doesn't fall under science/maths, such as history or English.

Well, yeah, but the actual ART subjects get it the worst.

Anyway, i'm going to bed - good luck! I'm sure you'll do okay. :)

Thanks. I'm still not so sure. I'll post updates soon.

10 minutes. *quivers*

Well, I fucked it. 56.90.

Well, I fucked it. 56.90.

dammit!

what options do you have?

dammit!

what options do you have?

I'll possibly still get TAFE offers. Worst case scenario, I take a year off, then apply for TAFE as a mature age applicant.

What gets me is my Information Systems score, though. I got a study score of 29, it got marked down to 2. How the hell?

On the upside, my friend got worse than me; 44.75.

I'll possibly still get TAFE offers. Worst case scenario, I take a year off, then apply for TAFE as a mature age applicant.

What gets me is my Information Systems score, though. I got a study score of 29, it got marked down to 2. How the hell?

good lord. are you allowed to ask why or appeal that?

good lord. are you allowed to ask why or appeal that?

My mistake, I read it wrong. No, it's still decent.

My mistake, I read it wrong. No, it's still decent.

Oh I would hope so, that would be blatant highway robbery by VCAA if they took it down to that... then again, you ARE going to TAFE... :p

Just kidding, I really do hope it all works out for you.

What subjects did you end up taking?

Oh I would hope so, that would be blatant highway robbery by VCAA if they took it down to that... then again, you ARE going to TAFE... :p

Just kidding, I really do hope it all works out for you.

What subjects did you end up taking?

My subjects were English, Further Maths, History Revolutions, Information Systems and Religion and Society (Catholic school :rolleyes:). My best was Revs, with a A for each unit and a B for the exam, 31 study score. My worst was IS, almost definitely because of scaling.

TAFE's better for me, anyway. My top preference was uni, but only because it was the best I could go for. I have mild Asperger Syndrome, so the TAFE environment is better for me.

My subjects were English, Further Maths, History Revolutions, Information Systems and Religion and Society (Catholic school :rolleyes:). My best was Revs, with a A for each unit and a B for the exam, 31 study score. My worst was IS, almost definitely because of scaling.

Oh ok, fair enough. Just out of curiosity, which school?

I'm doing Year 12 next year, taking English, Lit, International Studies, Revs, and German. I took Psych 3/4 this year too, got myself a 45 for it. Which was nice.

Yep, arts all the way.

Oh ok, fair enough. Just out of curiosity, which school?

Catholic Regional College Sydenham.

I'm doing Year 12 next year, taking English, Lit, International Studies, Revs, and German. I took Psych 3/4 this year too, got myself a 45 for it. Which was nice.

Yep, arts all the way.

You'll like Revs, it's good. Any word on what revolutions you'll be doing?

And yeah, had it not been for the compulsory Religion, I'd have taken Psych 3/4 this year; I did well in 1/2.

Sorry to hear you didn't get the score you wanted. The marking down thing is cruel and unusual if you ask me. Good luck!

Sorry to hear you didn't get the score you wanted. The marking down thing is cruel and unusual if you ask me. Good luck!

Well, in reality, I was aiming for anything halfway decent; a 56.90 means I beat 56.90% of the state; that pleases me.

Catholic Regional College Sydenham.

You'll like Revs, it's good. Any word on what revolutions you'll be doing?

And yeah, had it not been for the compulsory Religion, I'd have taken Psych 3/4 this year; I did well in 1/2.

Ah, I see. You poor bugger.

I'll be doing the Russian and French revolutions, so that should be very fun.

I have to ask, as I ask anybody who takes it: Why Further?? For the love of god why? Its the most pointless subject on the planet!

I'll be doing the Russian and French revolutions, so that should be very fun.

Same as us.

I have to ask, as I ask anybody who takes it: Why Further?? For the love of god why? Its the most pointless subject on the planet!

Because I'm probably not good enough at maths for anything above. Could've been worse; my friend took Foundation Maths last year. Now that's a subject that goes nowhere.

Because I'm probably not good enough at maths for anything above. Could've been worse; my friend took Foundation Maths last year. Now that's a subject that goes nowhere.

But I just don't see the point in taking a maths at all, as you're obviously not a maths-y person (no offence). Do a different subject together, like maybe Psych or some-such.

But I just don't see the point in taking a maths at all, as you're obviously not a maths-y person (no offence). Do a different subject together, like maybe Psych or some-such.

I want to get into video games programming; despite what my results would suggest, I'm very good with computers. The maths is a boost to that. Besides, I did pretty well in maths.

It's meant to be a percentile score. eg, an ENTER score of 60 would ordinarily mean that the student is in the top 40%.

Except not really, because arts and humanities students generally recieve penalties to their marks, so it's a bit misleading. (and apparently, after hearing my brother carry on about it for a bit, students can lose marks if their school's average score is low, but the system is ridiculously complex so I have no idea if that's true.)

Humanities subjects get marked down because students do better in those subjects than they do in sciences. The idea is the make it fair across all subjects for all students.

Nope, that's not it at all. Year 12 History, for example, is not objectively more or less difficult to study than year 12 Chemistry. At VCE level, the workload between different subjects is expected to be balanced (of course, some students are better at chem over history and vice versa, so one would seem "harder" to them - the only real exceptions to this rule are the three maths courses, because most university science degrees treat maths methods as a prerequisite, so it's something people in that field of study have to do anyway - further maths is the layman's alternative). The markdowns don't take into consideration the course structures, but instead look at the popularity of the courses - if the bureaucrats that work for VCAA decide that too many people are studying history, they'll throw in a markdown to dissuade future students and raise the alternative subjects proportionally. Or at least, that's the common belief perpetuated by my teachers back then, some of whom were also exam markers - because VCAA doesn't actually release any information on how they work out these markdowns. (Or at least they certainly didn't when I was studying year 12. )

Eh, further maths, english and one of any science were the prerequisites for my science degree. No methods in sight. :)

As for raising interest be reducing marks, are you talking about uni courses, because they only seem to go up. o.O
If you mean VCE units, why would they mark down further maths? Surely they don't want to discourage people from doing math now? :rolleyes: It's because a lot of people do well in that subject compared to other subjects, so the mark down is the make it fair for people who did other, more difficult subjects (which get marked up). Example: my study score for further maths was calculated about 2 points lower than my raw score, whereas my biology mark (a subject that is harder to get good raw scores in) got scaled up about two points.

On the upside, my friend got worse than me; 44.75.

It can definitely be worse than what you got, I know someone who got under 30 (they don't tell you what exact mark you got if you get under 30).

I have to ask, as I ask anybody who takes it: Why Further?? For the love of god why? Its the most pointless subject on the planet!

Actually, it was a prerequisite for my science degree, either that or math methods. Because math isn't my strong suit, and I knew I would do better in further math than methods, I chose the former and got a high study score.

What interests me is that Neu Leonstein got a Queensland OP 2, which is the equivalent of an ENTER of 97.50, but he doesn't think it's a big deal.
Well, I know one guy who got a really good score but then went to a Marine Biology Course in Townsville that needed an OP17 or something.

It's all about whether it allows you to do what you want to do, rather than the number it happens to be in the end.

Well, I fucked it. 56.90.
:(

Well, heads up, I suppose. This is the time to go around to the TAFEs and check out what they can do for you. Remember, it's their job to give you a proper education, so insist on your rights. I've seen a few people just totally forfit on their self-worth and just let everything slide. There's no reason for that, the format of secondary education suits some people more than others - tertiary education will be different again.

In hindsight, the entire ranking system is pretty stupid, though. In theory, every student in the state could do spectacularly, but someone has to get bottom marks.