NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_us/terror_arrest

The article says it all.

Why Rockford of all places though? I figure they'd go after Watertower Place.

...so who exactly are "they" supposed to be, IDF?

*clucks tongue disparagingly*

The article does indeed say it all - at least, it says what you choose not to.

Let me guess, he was a Catholic...

...so who exactly are "they" supposed to be, IDF?

*clucks tongue disparagingly*

Terrorist wannabees.

Aren't hand Grenades used for their shock effect rather than the injuries they cause?

...so who exactly are "they" supposed to be, IDF?

*clucks tongue disparagingly*

The article does indeed say it all - at least, it says what you choose not to.

Terrorists in general.

I'm stating the fact that you would expect terrorists to target a higher up mall, not some dump in Rockford.

Terrorist wannabees.

I didn't realize they'd managed to organize themselves into a group. Of course, the article didn't mention that.

Aren't hand Grenades used for their shock effect rather than the injuries they cause?
Generally yes. OF coursse we are dealing with a dumb terrorist here.

Grenades aren't effective killing devices. They are best used to wound a group of people.

Aren't hand Grenades used for their shock effect rather than the injuries they cause?

Well, they are designed to kill you. And they are pretty effective.

Just not if thrown into a garbage can.

I think they should have sold him only one, that unbeknownst to him had a 0-second delay fuse.

That way, the moment he pulled the pin, he would be wtfpwned.

Aren't hand Grenades used for their shock effect rather than the injuries they cause?

Fragmentation grenades (what I think of when I think "hand grenades") are meant to kill or wound with the shrapnel. The M67 (I think) used by the US military has a kill radius of 5 meters, as do most other grenades.

Terrorists in general.

I'm stating the fact that you would expect terrorists to target a higher up mall, not some dump in Rockford.

I'd expect a bona fide terrorist to do so, yes - not some bored suburbanite with a personal axe to grind.

"they" indeed.

Generally yes. OF coursse we are dealing with a dumb terrorist here.

Grenades aren't effective killing devices. They are best used to wound a group of people.

Someone did not do their homework.

Well, they are designed to kill you. And they are pretty effective.

Just not if thrown into a garbage can.Actually they aren't that effective as killing devices. I read a study in a book on infantry warfare which stated grenades kill only a little more than 5% of those wounded. That's a pretty low mortality rate compared to what people percieve grenades to be.

I'd expect a bona fide terrorist to do so, yes - not some bored suburbanite with a personal axe to grind.

"they" indeed.

Rockford is NOT a suburb of Chicago. Between the burbs and Rockford there lies about 60 miles of wheat fields.

Other than that, what's the big deal with using the word they? I'm saying that if terrorists were to attack a mall in Illinois, they would be more likely to select Watertower Place. Do you have a problem with that?

Actually they aren't that effective as killing devices. I read a study in a book on infantry warfare which stated grenades kill only a little more than 5% of those wounded. That's a pretty low mortality rate compared to what people percieve grenades to be.

1. ...Huh?

2. Cite the source, please.

Actually they aren't that effective as killing devices. I read a study in a book on infantry warfare which stated grenades kill only a little more than 5% of those wounded. That's a pretty low mortality rate compared to what people percieve grenades to be.

That's because most grenades don't land that close to people.

If it lands near you, you're fucking toast.

There's a Marine who won the Medal of Honor in Iraq. Seems he thought as you do - that a grenade is mostly shrapnel for wounding - and he put his helmet over one that had been thrown at his friends.

The helmet was blown to shit, and he was turned into hamburger.

1. ...Huh?

2. Cite the source, please.

James F. Dunnigan's book How to Make War, 4th ed. I read it last year. You can pick it up at a library.

James F. Dunnigan's book How to Make War, 4th ed. I read it last year. You can pick it up at a library.

Like I said, because most don't land close to their targets.

If they land within the kill radius, you're dead meat.

That's because most grenades don't land that close to people.

If it lands near you, you're fucking toast.

There's a Marine who won the Medal of Honor in Iraq. Seems he thought as you do - that a grenade is mostly shrapnel for wounding - and he put his helmet over one that had been thrown at his friends.

The helmet was blown to shit, and he was turned into hamburger.

Grenades are very lethal inside of 1 or 2 meters.

Outside of that, it's really a crapshoot based on the fragments. Even then, most wounds won't be fatal unless the fragment catches you in the right area.

Actually they aren't that effective as killing devices. I read a study in a book on infantry warfare which stated grenades kill only a little more than 5% of those wounded. That's a pretty low mortality rate compared to what people percieve grenades to be.

They're effective at killing people, but they're even more effective at wounding. The shrapnel is said to reliably go out to 15m or so, and it's much easier to get someone within 15m than within 5m.

When I was in Iraq I assisted on a medevac mission where a Florida NG guy had a bunch of shrapnel in his face and neck, and he was about 20m away from where it went off. If he'd been much closer he probably wouldn't have made it, he was in rough shape as it was.

But yes, grenades do work much differently in real life than they do on TV. I always laugh when I see a grenade turn into a giant fireball on TV.

Rockford is NOT a suburb of Chicago. Between the burbs and Rockford there lies about 60 miles of wheat fields.

Other than that, what's the big deal with using the word they? I'm saying that if terrorists were to attack a mall in Illinois, they would be more likely to select Watertower Place. Do you have a problem with that?

Yeah, I got a problem with that - in your OP, you're making some lone boondock quack out to be an organization.

I think you're hoping to willfully promulgate needless fear and loathing by doing so.

They're effective at killing people, but they're even more effective at wounding. The shrapnel is said to reliably go out to 15m or so, and it's much easier to get someone within 15m than within 5m.

When I was in Iraq I assisted on a medevac mission where a Florida NG guy had a bunch of shrapnel in his face and neck, and he was about 20m away from where it went off. If he'd been much closer he probably wouldn't have made it, he was in rough shape as it was.

But yes, grenades do work much differently in real life than they do on TV. I always laugh when I see a grenade turn into a giant fireball on TV.

There's little or no smoke, no flame at all, and if it lands in dirt, sometimes you can see (as it bursts) a fan shaped cone of dirt and fragments.

Really anticlimactic, unless you're in a confined space where they're going off.

Yeah, I got a problem with that - in your OP, you're making some lone boondock quack out to be an organization.

I think you're hoping to willfully promulgate needless fear and loathing by doing so.

The they wasn't a reference for this man. It was a reference for terrorists in general. Now this part of the discussion is really pointless so I suggest you write something more relevant to the event and/or plan.

Even then, most wounds won't be fatal unless the fragment catches you in the right area.
Whahahihi. Indeed.

Derrick Shareef, of Rockford, was arrested on Wednesday by FBI agents from the Chicago Joint Terrorism Task Force, the U.S. Attorney's office said

Yeah, sounds like a Catholic to me.... :rolleyes:

How did this guy plan to get away with planting 4 grenades in garbage cans? Pull pin, drop in can, try to walk away without being conspicuous, three or four seconds later the can blows up. He's still in the area. Lucky if he doesn't take some shrapnel himself.

Also they're charging him with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction? If a grenade is a a weapon of mass destruction then I guess Saddam had WMD after all.

Really anticlimactic, unless you're in a confined space where they're going off.

I didn't think so the first time I threw one in basic training. I thought "Holy crap, that was loud! I want to throw another one!"

So? I had someone plot to bomb my highschool. Whats the point?

How did this guy plan to get away with planting 4 grenades in garbage cans? Pull pin, drop in can, try to walk away without being conspicuous, three or four seconds later the can blows up. He's still in the area. Lucky if he doesn't take some shrapnel himself.

We're dealing with a moron.

Also they're charging him with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction? If a grenade is a a weapon of mass destruction then I guess Saddam had WMD after all.

I think the definition has changed so they'll be easier to find.

Rockford is NOT a suburb of Chicago. Between the burbs and Rockford there lies about 60 miles of wheat fields.

Other than that, what's the big deal with using the word they? I'm saying that if terrorists were to attack a mall in Illinois, they would be more likely to select Watertower Place. Do you have a problem with that?

The big deal is that you're using the plural, which would make this some sort of plot with multiple people taking part in it, as opposed to the singular, which is not only factually correct, it also points out that this was one person, acting alone. Given your post history, you should understand why some of us would look at this difference as a significant one.

The big deal is that you're using the plural, which would make this some sort of plot with multiple people taking part in it, as opposed to the singular, which is not only factually correct, it also points out that this was one person, acting alone. Given your post history, you should understand why some of us would look at this difference as a significant one.

It's not that big of a deal.

"They" in IDF's terms, are "Islamic terrorists" whether working alone or in concert. To him, what motivates them is important.

And it's clear from the affidavit
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1208061shareef1.html

that he wasn't doing it because he was a Catholic.

Aren't hand Grenades used for their shock effect rather than the injuries they cause?you're thinking of Flash/Bangs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_us/terror_arrest

The article says it all.

Why Rockford of all places though? I figure they'd go after Watertower Place.any area where large casualties can be expected is a target.

There's a Marine who won the Medal of Honor in Iraq. Seems he thought as you do - that a grenade is mostly shrapnel for wounding - and he put his helmet over one that had been thrown at his friends.

The helmet was blown to shit, and he was turned into hamburger.wrong, He put his helmet on the grenade and LAID DOWN ON THE HELMET to save his squad, which would've been toast.
He knew he was going to die, and did his best to save his squad.

wrong, He put his helmet on the grenade and LAID DOWN ON THE HELMET to save his squad, which would've been toast.
He knew he was going to die, and did his best to save his squad.

He had speculated numerous times about how it would work without killing the person holding the helmet.

The they wasn't a reference for this man. It was a reference for terrorists in general. Now this part of the discussion is really pointless so I suggest you write something more relevant to the event and/or plan.

I'm entitled to my opinion - don't try cowing me. If you aren't open to the opinions of others, might I suggest you not post threads on General?

He had speculated numerous times about how it would work without killing the person holding the helmet.Cite source please?

Officials said Shareef had been under investigation since September, when he told an acquaintance that "he wanted to commit acts of violent jihad against targets in the United States as well as commit other crimes."

Other potential targets that Shareef allegedly discussed included government facilities such as courthouses and city hall, authorities said.

Shareef and his acquaintance cased the CherryVale Mall on Nov. 30, discussing the layout and spots where they might set off several grenades simultaneously to create more pandemonium, according to an FBI affidavit.I say Islamic Terrorist Wannabe.

Cite source please?

Dunham’s story was told in a book, “A Gift of Valor,” penned by a Wall Street Journal reporter embedded with 3/7 in spring 2004.

I say Islamic Terrorist Wannabe.

So do I; doesn't make him a plural, though. Doesn't render him an organization.

Fear and loathing, folks. Smoke and mirrors. Bait and switch. Call it what you will, it's just so much trumped-up BS on parade.

So do I; doesn't make him a plural, though. Doesn't render him an organization.

Fear and loathing, folks. Smoke and mirrors. Bait and switch. Call it what you will, it's just so much trumped-up BS on parade.

I suppose we should just give the guy the four hand grenades and let him walk home?

I say Islamic Terrorist Wannabe.


Copycat. :)

I suppose we should just give the guy the four hand grenades and let him walk home?

Where'd you get that from? That has nothing to do with what I've been saying.

Dunham’s story was told in a book, “A Gift of Valor,” penned by a Wall Street Journal reporter embedded with 3/7 in spring 2004.
didn't recall any part of that book that mentioned him "Finding a way to cover a grenade and not be killed" can you specify page and paragraph number?

Where'd you get that from? That has nothing to do with what I've been saying.

You've been implying that he's harmless, and that this is all trumped up bullshit.

Copycat. :)

:eek: What... I cannot have the same opinion as someone else? FINE THEN...



errr... Howabout "Al Quaeda High Dropout"?

any area where large casualties can be expected is a target.


And striking a target outside a major American city would strike a great amount of fear into 'middle-america'. ie. The "Its not just the big cities that get targeted but towns.Whats next? Highschools?" mentality.I think its not a bad area to attack if your aim is to terrorise.Terrorisim after all is not about killing as many people as you can but about paralysing a community through fear to achieve your aims.

And striking a target outside a major American city would strike a great amount of fear into 'middle-america'. ie. The "Its not just the big cities that get targeted but towns.Whats next? Highschools?" mentality.I think its not a bad area to attack if your aim is to terrorise.Terrorisim after all is not about killing as many people as you can but about paralysing a community through fear to achieve your aims.

Well, Beslan was a school...

Terrorists in general.

I'm stating the fact that you would expect terrorists to target a higher up mall, not some dump in Rockford.

You have to be uber careful when you type here. The thought police are everywhere... http://necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif

And striking a target outside a major American city would strike a great amount of fear into 'middle-america'. ie. The "Its not just the big cities that get targeted but towns.Whats next? Highschools?" mentality.I think its not a bad area to attack if your aim is to terrorise.Terrorisim after all is not about killing as many people as you can but about paralysing a community through fear to achieve your aims.

Depends on the organization. Al Qaeda used to go for body count. Bin Laden once mentioned in one of his tapes that he wanted to kill about 4 million Americans.

You have to be uber careful when you type here. The thought police are everywhere... http://necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif

And the spelling and grammar police...

Well, Beslan was a school...
True, but I dont think russians have the same type of, " you hit one of us, you hit us all " mentality that americans do, although having said that Beslan was probably more trouble than it was worth for the movement in Chechnya .

And the spelling and grammar police...

Yeah, seems they're making a resurgence as well.


Ooops...

True, but I dont think russians have the same type of, " you hit one of us, you hit us all " mentality that americans do, although having said that Beslan was probably more trouble than it was worth for the movement in Chechnya .

No, the Russians have the "you fuck with us, and we'll kill you, your children, your parents, your neighbors, your friends, the people who owe you money, and burn their houses to the fucking ground" mentality.

You've been implying that he's harmless, and that this is all trumped up bullshit.

No, I'm implying that referring to some pathetic loser from some backwater outpost as "they" or "them" or any other plural-form is to trump up a minor happening at a shopping mall into some larger, more serious terrorist-group conspiracy.

This amounts, in my opinion, to a willfull attempt to sensationalize - and to fear-monger - on the part of the OP.

I never said that the individual in question was harmless, I never said he should be allowed to "walk home", as you put it. I am saying that IDF is being misleading - and, I think he is doing so because of some agenda of his.

I am, however, well within my rights to express my opinion on this subject, and I shall not be browbeaten into silence, simply because my opinions are apparently less-than pleasing to either yourself or the OP.

No, the Russians have the "you fuck with us, and we'll kill you, your children, your parents, your neighbors, your friends, the people who owe you money, and burn their houses to the fucking ground" mentality.
Seem pictures of Grozny lately???

No, the Russians have the "you fuck with us, and we'll kill you, your children, your parents, your neighbors, your friends, the people who owe you money, and burn their houses to the fucking ground" mentality.You forgot the "And we don't mind if couple of our own people get killed in the process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis) of getting you" part.

CNN is saying he was just a lone wolf guy who converted to Islam recently. Is it just me or are the converts somewhat more fanatic?

CNN is saying he was just a lone wolf guy who converted to Islam recently. Is it just me or are the converts somewhat more fanatic?

Yes, if some of the "recent converts" who post on NS are any indication...

Since when is a grenade a WMD?

Yes, if some of the "recent converts" who post on NS are any indication...

Yea, and Soviestan hasn't been on NS for awhile......









:eek:

Yea, and Soviestan hasn't been on NS for awhile......









:eek:

Yeah, he took some stereo speakers over to the mall to trade for....

Yea, and Soviestan hasn't been on NS for awhile......









:eek:

He was here yesterday talking about alcohol and the way women dress.

I've been discussing this topic on a White Sox board I post on frequently. It's primarily a Chicago board so we are really discussing this heavily. Everyone is wondering why this guy didn't do it at Gurnee Mills or Woodfield Mall. Heck even Golf Mills seems like a more likely target than the dump in Rockford.

Oh well, it's a nice break from bitching about how stupid our GM is for trading Freddy Garcia for a bag of balls.

Everyone is wondering why this guy didn't do it at Gurnee Mills or Woodfield Mall. Heck even Golf Mills seems like a more likely target than the dump in Rockford.

Probably because he's from Rockford.

Investigators said Derrick Shareef, 22, an American citizen from Rockford

What I think is interesting about this is that the FBI knew about him and his ideas prior to him attempting to purchase hand grenades from an undercover FBI agent.

It's pretty clear that they are monitoring the kind of stuff that people say publicly. You know, which people advocate violent jihad out loud (or perhaps on Internet forums).

It gives them a list to work from. Apparently, it caught someone this time who planned to act on it.

Yea, and Soviestan hasn't been on NS for awhile......


:eek:

I may be devout in my faith, but this does NOT mean I'm a terrorist. In fact I strongly condemn this so called "convert to Islam" and what he wanted to do in the name of Islam. Granted I'm not an Imam, but still. This guy seems like an idiot who wanted attention.

I may be devout in my faith, but this does NOT mean I'm a terrorist. In fact I strongly condemn this so called "convert to Islam" and what he wanted to do in the name of Islam. Granted I'm not an Imam, but still. This guy seems like an idiot who wanted attention.

You do realize I was joking, yes?

I may be devout in my faith, but this does NOT mean I'm a terrorist. In fact I strongly condemn this so called "convert to Islam" and what he wanted to do in the name of Islam. Granted I'm not an Imam, but still. This guy seems like an idiot who wanted attention.

Does that not sound familiar, though?

You do realize I was joking, yes?

Of course, I know you understand Islam than a lot of people on here. I just wanted to make it clear to those that still think Islam= Terrorism.

...so who exactly are "they" supposed to be, IDF?

*clucks tongue disparagingly*

The article does indeed say it all - at least, it says what you choose not to.
men with grenades :eek:

Yeah, I got a problem with that - in your OP, you're making some lone boondock quack out to be an organization.

I think you're hoping to willfully promulgate needless fear and loathing by doing so.
Why not fear and loath men with grenades???

Given your post history, you should understand why some of us would look at this difference as a significant one.
Why, who is IDF?

It just looks like ultra-anal nitpicking to me.

This amounts, in my opinion, to a willfull attempt to sensationalize - and to fear-monger - on the part of the OP.

I never said that the individual in question was harmless, I never said he should be allowed to "walk home", as you put it. I am saying that IDF is being misleading - and, I think he is doing so because of some agenda of his.

IDF's "sensationalising", if that's what it is, is surely the most subtle ever.

Yes, if some of the "recent converts" who post on NS are any indication...
Soviestan is not extreme.

So do I; doesn't make him a plural, though. Doesn't render him an organization.

Fear and loathing, folks. Smoke and mirrors. Bait and switch. Call it what you will, it's just so much trumped-up BS on parade.

Just how many lone wolf terrorists do there need to be before you get a little fear in you?

I just read the article. How the hell did he get charged with attempting to use a "weapon of mass destruction"? If grenades classify as that, the courts should get some education in what a grenade is I think.

Does that not sound familiar, though?

what does?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_us/terror_arrest

The article says it all.

Why Rockford of all places though? I figure they'd go after Watertower Place.

who's this "they" then? sounds to me like an unconnected nutjob to me.

Just how many lone wolf terrorists do there need to be before you get a little fear in you?

More than one dispossessed hick from some regional armpit, that much is certain.

More than one dispossessed hick from some regional armpit, that much is certain.

You're giving Rockford WAAAYYY too much credit with "regional armpit."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_us/terror_arrest

The article says it all.

Why Rockford of all places though? I figure they'd go after Watertower Place.

Convictions yet?