NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.

KATY, Texas - A plan to build a mosque in this Houston suburb has triggered a neighborhood dispute, with community members warning the place will become a terrorist hotbed and one man threatening to hold pig races on Fridays just to offend the Muslims.

Many neighborhood residents claim they have nothing against Muslims and are more concerned about property values, drainage and traffic.

But one resident has set up an anti-Islamic Web site with an odometer-like counter that keeps track of terrorist attacks since Sept. 11. A committee has formed to buy another property and offer to trade it for the Muslims’ land. And next-door neighbor Craig Baker has threatened to race pigs on the edge of the property on the Muslim holy day. Muslims consider pigs unclean and do not eat pork.
How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

It's inappropriate and sinful, but we can't do anything about it.

Try to convince them they're wrong and pray that you'll be successful.

*Sighs with Nazz*

Absolutely terrible. Nothing else can be said.

What? A bunch of jerky Muslims can "insist" on praying on a plane, but these guys can't pull some jerky stunts in return? It's childish, but hey, it's America. People can be as obnoxious as they want to be.

*Sighs with Nazz*

Absolutely terrible. Nothing else can be said.

I agree.

Another sigh.

The terror hysteria is bad enough. It's like the most outrageous racist stuff that used to fly around before segregation ended.

But that pig races thing -- that's just disgusting. I mean, free speech, yay! But I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.

*sighs too*

There's nothing wrong with setting up a mosque. If the Christian have a Church, the Jews have a Synagogue, Buddhist have Temple, then the Muslim should have a Mosque. They're not doing anything illegal, so this really is sad.

That's racist? Is Islam a race, or a religion, exactly?

Would you prefer that they throw rocks or burn religious symbols? The guy isn't stepping on their property. People (still) have the right to disagree.

Another sigh.

The terror hysteria is bad enough. It's like the most outrageous racist stuff that used to fly around before segregation ended.

But that pig races thing -- that's just disgusting. I mean, free speech, yay! But I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.

I'd be satisfied with nationwide mockery, frankly.

What? A bunch of jerky Muslims can "insist" on praying on a plane, but these guys can't pull some jerky stunts in return? It's childish, but hey, it's America. People can be as obnoxious as they want to be.

Welcome to reality, sonny jim.

Anyway, yeah, as Ive said before and will say again, theres idiots on all sides. The worst idiots are the ones who judge entire religions by the actions of a few idiots, as will no doubt occur in this article.
Because its a well known Christian tradition to race pigs on Muslim holy days.

Would you prefer that they throw rocks or burn religious symbols? The guy isn't stepping on their property. People (still) have the right to disagree.
And I have a right to call them assholes. :rolleyes:

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

Another sigh.

The terror hysteria is bad enough. It's like the most outrageous racist stuff that used to fly around before segregation ended.

But that pig races thing -- that's just disgusting. I mean, free speech, yay! But I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.

Is there an animal that is offensive to Christians, more importantly the sects these people are involved in? I figure I should go down there and start protesting, saying these people are going to start another Crusade. Obviously, their churches are breeding grounds for Crusaders.

Welcome to reality, sonny jim.

Anyway, yeah, as Ive said before and will say again, theres idiots on all sides. The worst idiots are the ones who judge entire religions by the actions of a few idiots, as will no doubt occur in this article.
Because its a well known Christian tradition to race pigs on Muslim holy days.

Right on, my point exactly.

What you guys be saying if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?


This is not holding signs and such. This is a group of people whom are trying to block people from practicing their faith.


What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

The exact same as if a Christian or a Jew decided to pray on a flight. Jack shit.

What you guys be saying if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

No, of course not. After all, Muslims are oppressed all over the globe and they're standing up to their Christian oppressors.

Is there an animal that is offensive to Christians, more importantly the sects these people are involved in? I figure I should go down there and start protesting, saying these people are going to start another Crusade. Obviously, their churches are breeding grounds for Crusaders.

Right, since they're killing Muslims and Jews in the streets down there. I think I even heard them shout "bring back the Crusades!"

Obviously.

Yeah.

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

Muslims don't hold up sign, they just blow themselves up, and yes it would be sad if Muslims did that because the Christians wouldn't be doing anything wrong either. Eh as to praying on a flight, that's not the problem, the problem is when you get suspicious behavior.

What you guys be saying if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

Depended what was on the signs.

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

I would have the same level of sheer indifference as I would if a member of any other religion started praying on a flight.

[QUOTE=Seangoli;12053873]This is not holding signs and such. This is a group of people whom are trying to block people from practicing their faith.
QUOTE]

It is? He's going to hold the races next to the property and that blocks people? Way to overstate the situation. Excellent distortion.

No, of course not. After all, Muslims are oppressed all over the globe and they're standing up to their Christian oppressors.

I wouldn't take it that far now....

No, of course not. After all, Muslims are oppressed all over the globe and they're standing up to their Christian oppressors.

I can't tell if you're joking. You ARE joking aren't you?

I wouldn't take it that far now....

You wouldn't, no. Many would.

Right, since they're killing Muslims and Jews in the streets down there. I think I even heard them shout "bring back the Crusades!"

Obviously.

Yeah.

And most Muslims aren't proclaiming anything terroristic. Relating Muslims to terrorism is like related Christians to the Crusades.

That was the point.

You wouldn't, no. Many would.

Like you.

I can't tell if you're joking. You ARE joking aren't you?

No. Why would you think I was joking?

Of course I'm joking! Well, half way. A lot of people would say that they treat Christians equally with other religions. But really, a lot of them have the exact thought I said.

At least people like me admit we're biased.

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

I see two 'woulds', two 'whats' and two 'ifs', but I'm damned if I know why I bother...

It is? He's going to hold the races next to the property and that blocks people? Way to overstate the situation. Excellent distortion.

Maybe "block" isn't the best word, but in a way it is. They are trying to offend these people so bad, and so greatly, that as to force them out of the area. It's indirect, yes, but can be seen as a blocking attempt.

You wouldn't, no. Many would.

And they too would be wrong, or twisting the reality. Have you been to any other countries? I have. I've seen what the Muslim populations are doing in Italy, Canada and Australia. Heck, I can watch CNN and see what they're doing in France. Way to stand up to the Christian oppressors. That's sweet. You just can't get more secular than Europe, but they're Christian oppressors.

Get brain washed much?

Is there an animal that is offensive to Christians, more importantly the sects these people are involved in? I figure I should go down there and start protesting, saying these people are going to start another Crusade. Obviously, their churches are breeding grounds for Crusaders.
No, more's the pity, no animal taboos. Really, the closest you could come, offense-wise, would be to have sex on the front steps of a Christian church, but I think Islam has rules against that, too.

Like you.

No, not like me. I would be going over and calmly trying to explain the Gospel to them, or letting them pray and slipping them a salvation track as we get off the plane.

And they too would be wrong, or twisting the reality. Have you been to any other countries? I have. I've seen what the Muslim populations are doing in Italy, Canada and Australia. Heck, I can watch CNN and see what they're doing in France. Way to stand up to the Christian oppressors. That's sweet. You just can't get more secular than Europe, but they're Christian oppressors.

Get brain washed much?

I'm a Christian.

No, more's the pity, no animal taboos. Really, the closest you could come, offense-wise, would be to have sex on the front steps of a Christian church, but I think Islam has rules against that, too.

How about molesting an under-age boy inside a church. That must warrant the church establishment getting pretty pissed off.

Oh...wait...

At least people like me admit we're biased.

That's too bad for you. Though, I suppose acceptance IS the first stage to recovery, so maybe you're on to something. Good luck with it.

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?
Let me get this straight -- you take offense at the idea of Muslims practicing their religion? So the sight of Muslims praying in a place where lots of people pray (because they are on a plane) would be taken as an insult to you? And you consider that to be equivalent to the insult of holding pig races within sight of a mosque on their holy day?

Wow, you must really hate the idea of the very existence of Muslims.

Is there an animal that is offensive to Christians, more importantly the sects these people are involved in? I figure I should go down there and start protesting, saying these people are going to start another Crusade.

An animal offensive to the xians? Why, dragqueenus homosexualis, of course!

How about molesting an under-age boy inside a church. That must warrant the church establishment getting pretty pissed off.

Oh...wait...

No, that's godly.

That's too bad for you. Though, I suppose acceptance IS the first stage to recovery, so maybe you're on to something. Good luck with it.

Are we on the same page?

I was being sarcastic. I do not think that anything should be done to the praying or protesting Muslim. I think that it is my responsibility as a Christian to take that opppurtunity to share the Gospel with them.

I mean that I am biased against the Muslim faith. And I admit that. Just as I am biased against all religions outside Christianity. That doesn't mean that I hate, or am disrespectful toward, or persecute the adherents of those religions. But, I don't treat their ideas as equal.

I just love all the hateful stereotypes that get thrown around whenever there is a particular group of people it's 'in vogue' to dislike.

Dirty, unwashed, granola-eating hippies.

Dirty, unwashed, baby-eating communists.

Dirty, unwashed child-raping priests. Oh wait...that one's kind of spot on.

Muslims are just the 'roast' du jour. All the unoriginal, bandwagonish, lame ass people need some sort of scapegoat as a way of coping with their own insecurities.

Muslims don't hold up sign, they just blow themselves up

http://www.orlyowl.com/frenchrly.gif

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060719112720854

Dirty, unwashed, baby-eating communists.

Hey... I'm not a communist! :(

Hey... I'm not a communist! :(

Dirty, unwashed baby-eater then?

You know what you can eat, baby...but you'll need to take a shower ;)

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?


Considering how I felt the first (and only) time I flew in an airplane, I'd probably say something to the effect of "mind if I join you?" If Allah/God/Jehovah had intended man to fly...

:p

Dirty, unwashed baby-eater then?

You know what you can eat, baby...but you'll need to take a shower ;)

Oh mas ouis!

Wow, you must really hate the idea of the very existence of Muslims.

A counter to Sovietstan? :p

http://www.orlyowl.com/frenchrly.gif

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060719112720854

It was a crude joke.

What? A bunch of jerky Muslims can "insist" on praying on a plane, but these guys can't pull some jerky stunts in return? It's childish, but hey, it's America. People can be as obnoxious as they want to be.

praying at certain times of the day is a part of the muslim religion. they happened to be in an airport at the time.

last time I checked, being an asshole was not a part of the christian religion.

It was a crude joke.

Quite. Although, to be honest I was looking for an excuse to use the "O Vraiment?" picture more than anything.

praying at certain times of the day is a part of the muslim religion. they happened to be in an airport at the time.

last time I checked, being an asshole was not a part of the christian religion.

Fred Phelps, The 700 Club, Some Southern Baptist I know, some uptight "traditional" Catholic (I think we all know who I'm talking about here), need I go on?

praying at certain times of the day is a part of the muslim religion. they happened to be in an airport at the time.

last time I checked, being an asshole was not a part of the christian religion.

Actually, right after Jesus said "Love thy neighbor" he also said " But be an asshole to everyone else"

Dirty, unwashed child-raping priests. Oh wait...that one's kind of spot on.

You are jumping all over people who stereotype muslims based upon a handful of radicals. And yet you condone stereotyping Christians (or at the least, all Catholic priests) based upon a handful of priests.

Do I smell hypocrisy?

You are jumping all over people who stereotype muslims based upon a handful of radicals. And yet you condone stereotyping Christians (or at the least, all Catholic priests) based upon a handful of priests.

Do I smell hypocrisy?

*sniff, then cough up a lung*

Yep that's hypocrisy all right.

You are jumping all over people who stereotype muslims based upon a handful of radicals. And yet you condone stereotyping Christians (or at the least, all Catholic priests) based upon a handful of priests.

Do I smell hypocrisy?
Be fair--it's way more than a handful. It's a freaking pandemic.

You are jumping all over people who stereotype muslims based upon a handful of radicals. And yet you condone stereotyping Christians (or at the least, all Catholic priests) based upon a handful of priests.

Do I smell hypocrisy?

What you can't smell is humour.

Making fun of pedophile priests is amusing...you just have to admit that part...

What you can't smell is humour.

Making fun of pedophile priests is amusing...you just have to admit that part...

Oh, yeah. Ha Ha.. ha... ha.

Some kid being messed up is not funny. Nor is using a stereotype as an example against stereotyping.

Be fair--it's way more than a handful. It's a freaking pandemic.

Just like all of those suicide bombers, eh. ::wink::

Be fair--it's way more than a handful. It's a freaking pandemic.

Oh comon, it's not like every Diocese had a pedophile in it. Yes it was wrong for them to hide the priest and not turn them over to the authorities, but I would hardly call it a pandemic. It would be like me saying that radical Muslims is a pandemic.

Be fair--it's way more than a handful. It's a freaking pandemic.

Uh... I'm not sure if you are serious or not, but coming from an agnost here, it's not. There are thousands of Churchs in the Americas, and thousands more in Europe and other areas, and it is quite rare for it to happen. Out of thousands, or even tens if not hundreds of thousands, a couple dozen cases is a drop in the bucket. They are not by any means the rule of thumb, and the only reason why it seems such is because of the massive attention given when these cases do arise. Mostly I agree with you Nazz, but this time around not really.

Oh, yeah. Ha Ha.. ha... ha.

Some kid being messed up is not funny. Nor is using a stereotype as an example against stereotyping.

Someone ate pissed-in-cornflakes this morning...am I raining on the anti-Muslim parade by bringing up pedophile priests?

The whole point was to use a stereotype against stereotyping...to show just how offensive it is to make blatant generalisations. But the anti-Muslim crowd isn't going to see it, because they believe that the generalisations they make are all true.

Oh comon, it's not like every Diocese had a pedophile in it. Yes it was wrong for them to hide the priest and not turn them over to the authorities, but I would hardly call it a pandemic. It would be like me saying that radical Muslims is a pandemic.

There are 280 odd catholic diocese in the US I think. And a study by John Jay College of criminal justice found that between 1950 and 2004 approximately 4300+ individual priests had been involved in sexual abuse of minors.

Now obviously, you cannot conclude, with certianty, from that that 100% of diocese had at least one molester in the past fifty years, but the odds are pretty good.

There are 280 odd catholic diocese in the US I think. And a study by John Jay College of criminal justice found that between 1950 and 2004 approximately 4300+ individual priests had been involved in sexual abuse of minors.

Now obviously, you cannot conclude, with certianty, from that that 100% of diocese had at least one molester in the past fifty years, but the odds are pretty good.

How many of those cases are real though. I mean yes there were pedophile priest, but have you ever thought about how easy it would be to make a charge like this?

How pathetic is this? Someone summon up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.
Several years ago for a capping day stunt some Uni students in Auckland, New Zealand sent around a circular in one of the richest, pounciest streets in the city.
It informed the residents that the local playground was going to be given back to a Maori tribe as settlement for a land claim, and that said tribe was intending on constructing a whare (meeting house) on the land.
Apparently, that afternoon, real estate agents were beseiged with calls from the residents desperate to sell their houses before the darkies moved in and spoilt it all for them.

There are 280 odd catholic diocese in the US I think. And a study by John Jay College of criminal justice found that between 1950 and 2004 approximately 4300+ individual priests had been involved in sexual abuse of minors.

Now obviously, you cannot conclude, with certianty, from that that 100% of diocese had at least one molester in the past fifty years, but the odds are pretty good.

Nice job!

Sexual abuse in the Residential Schools was rampant as well. And don't leave the Anglicans high and dry...they diddled their fair amount as well.

Someone ate pissed-in-cornflakes this morning...am I raining on the anti-Muslim parade by bringing up pedophile priests?

The whole point was to use a stereotype against stereotyping...to show just how offensive it is to make blatant generalisations. But the anti-Muslim crowd isn't going to see it, because they believe that the generalisations they make are all true.

No. I'm not a big fan of cereal. ::grin::

If I see a logical fallacy I'm going to point it out. You just don't like being called a hypocrite, but that's ok. Most people don't. But just because I call you out on something like that, it doesn't mean I'm anti-Muslim. If it makes you feel better to insinuate that, then go ahead. I'm secure in my un-biased state of mind.

Wit can be a tough nut to crack, whereas righteous-indignation-as-reflex has the same comparitive allure as a la-z-boy recliner.


I'll take the nut.

How many of those cases are real though. I mean yes there were pedophile priest, but have you ever thought about how easy it would be to make a charge like this?

Oh for sure! I mean, for shits and giggles, who WOULDN'T go public with a story of being raped by a priest! Instant popularity!

Oh for sure! I mean, for shits and giggles, who WOULDN'T go public with a story of being raped by a priest! Instant popularity!

Umm, they won't be doing it for the popularity, the Church's pocket are deep if you know what I mean, and the negative publicity isn't good for the church.

No. I'm not a big fan of cereal. ::grin::

If I see a logical fallacy I'm going to point it out. You just don't like being called a hypocrite, but that's ok. Most people don't. But just because I call you out on something like that, it doesn't mean I'm anti-Muslim. If it makes you feel better to insinuate that, then go ahead. I'm secure in my un-biased state of mind.

Secure in your total lack of anything resembling a sense of humour as well. Good to know!


So yeah...back to dirty, unwashed child-raping priests.

How many of those cases are real though. I mean yes there were pedophile priest, but have you ever thought about how easy it would be to make a charge like this?

Especially once the ball gets rolling, and mass hysteria sets in. Often times, people will accuse of just about anything to "protect" the Children, and that does include accusing innocent people. Not to mention the fact that alot of people like money, and finding a reason for a lawsuit ain't to hard, and lying for money isn't exactly a new thing.

I'd note Michael Jackson, but I'm sure it wouldn't be prudent to those who are hard set against him.

Secure in your total lack of anything resembling a sense of humour as well. Good to know!


So yeah...back to dirty, unwashed child-raping priests.

ad hominen.

When all else fails, attack the person.

Umm, they won't be doing it for the popularity, the Church's pocket are deep if you know what I mean, and the negative publicity isn't good for the church.

And nothing soothes the stress of alienating your community, your family, your friends, and your church with a bogus rape story like a big wad of cash...man...you'd think more people would jump at the opportunity!

Just like all of those suicide bombers, eh. ::wink::
And just how many suicide bombers are there in Katy Texas? After all, that's where the story that spawned this thread took place. I'd be willing to wager quite a lot that we've had a bit more of a problem with pedophile priests than suicidal Muslims in the US.

Oh for sure! I mean, for shits and giggles, who WOULDN'T go public with a story of being raped by a priest! Instant popularity!

Problem is, mass hysteria does cause people to do things they normally wouldn't do, such as making up a story, "just in case". It has happened, and I have no doubt it happened in this case.

This is coming from an agnost, remember.

Especially once the ball gets rolling, and mass hysteria sets in. Often times, people will accuse of just about anything to "protect" the Children, and that does include accusing innocent people. Not to mention the fact that alot of people like money, and finding a reason for a lawsuit ain't to hard, and lying for money isn't exactly a new thing.

I'd note Michael Jackson, but I'm sure it wouldn't be prudent to those who are hard set against him.

Old cases with nothing but eyewitness testimony are easy to fight. There's a reason the Church is settling these--they know they're guilty. Besides, if you were wrongly accused of pedophilia, is there anything you wouldn't do to clear your name? Would you ever settle if it meant you would be considered a pedophile?

And nothing soothes the stress of alienating your community, your family, your friends, and your church with a bogus rape story like a big wad of cash...man...you'd think more people would jump at the opportunity!

Eh I'm just saying, priest are around children all the time, and alone with them. So it wouldn't be very hard to make up a false report.

And just how many suicide bombers are there in Katy Texas? After all, that's where the story that spawned this thread took place. I'd be willing to wager quite a lot that we've had a bit more of a problem with pedophile priests than suicidal Muslims in the US.

I think he was pointing out how you overly gross generalized an entire Catholic Priest population based on the actions of a few, by calling it a pandemic. You know, just like idiots like to call all Muslims radical who blow themselves up, even though only a few does it.

That's racist? Is Islam a race, or a religion, exactly?

Would you prefer that they throw rocks or burn religious symbols? The guy isn't stepping on their property. People (still) have the right to disagree.
And no doubt you're first in line defending Fred Phelps right to yell at funeral goers that their dead son deserved to die.

And nothing soothes the stress of alienating your community, your family, your friends, and your church with a bogus rape story like a big wad of cash...man...you'd think more people would jump at the opportunity!

Well, if you can fabricate a convincing story, it's not to difficult to get through. And often times, a nice settlement is good enough for many, as often times organizations would rather pay a small sum now, than paying massive court fees and such. Settlements do not mean guilt, it simply means not wanting to pay a massive amount of money in court.

And, if you are sueing for something that didn't happen, would you rather have 50k in the bank, or a possible 2million? Anyone with any brain at all would take the 50k now, as that is money in your pocket. Especially if the incident never happened.

These kinds of things are not new at all. They happen all the time.

And just how many suicide bombers are there in Katy Texas? After all, that's where the story that spawned this thread took place. I'd be willing to wager quite a lot that we've had a bit more of a problem with pedophile priests than suicidal Muslims in the US.

You've definitely got an argument there.

My main point, however, was Neesika's stereotyping of a group of people in the same breath she was condemning the stereotyping of another group of people.

Eh I'm just saying, priest are around children all the time, and alone with them. So it wouldn't be very hard to make up a false report.

And people believing that the reports would likely be false are of course what these predators are relying on.

What should bother you most however, is in that in many cases where there have been repeated, and proven accusations, the church simply moves the perpetrator and keeps things quiet.

There should be some sort of very public, humiliating, and ceremonial way of defrocking a pedophile priest. Let people know the Church takes it seriously. You could schedule it after Hockey Night in Canada.

You've definitely got an argument there.

My main point, however, was Neesika's stereotyping of a group of people in the same breath she was condemning the stereotyping of another group of people.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, and I'm so dense that I missed myself doing that, and was totally blind to the irony. Wow. Thanks for pointing out what must have been typed subconsciously.

Let people know the Church takes it seriously. You could schedule it after Hockey Night in Canada.

Guillotine and all?

And people believing that the reports would likely be false are of course what these predators are relying on.

What should bother you most however, is in that in many cases where there have been repeated, and proven accusations, the church simply moves the perpetrator and keeps things quiet.

There should be some sort of very public, humiliating, and ceremonial way of defrocking a pedophile priest. Let people know the Church takes it seriously. You could schedule it after Hockey Night in Canada.

Yea, that'll get the public on the Church's side. :rolleyes:

What should happen is that it should go to court, and be handled by the court. If the allegations are prove to be true, the church should not only kick the priest out of the priesthood, but excommunications too.

Old cases with nothing but eyewitness testimony are easy to fight. There's a reason the Church is settling these--they know they're guilty. Besides, if you were wrongly accused of pedophilia, is there anything you wouldn't do to clear your name? Would you ever settle if it meant you would be considered a pedophile?

Another reason settlements occur is to save face and to save money. Even if found that the lawsuits are bogus, it still brings a great deal of negative attention to you. Also, often times a rather small settlement is less money than one would spend on lawyers and fees in court, even if innocence is proved.

And I should reiterate, that even if the charges are bogus, often enough the damage is done, and people will still view you in a negative light. The mere fact that the case was brought is enough for many people to view you as guilty, regardless of whatever is found out in court.

Guillotine and all?

Na, I'm picturing incense, tearing of robes, latin phrases and perhaps being beaten about the head and shoulders with a crucifix or something.

Guillotine and all?

Hey, we need to recruit people into the priesthood too. Having our priest (or ex-priest) head off isn't exactly a message you want to send to those thinking about joining the priesthood.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, and I'm so dense that I missed myself doing that, and was totally blind to the irony. Wow. Thanks for pointing out what must have been typed subconsciously.

Neesika, I highly doubt that irony was your motive. You wanted to put Christians in a bad light. The way your post was worded is indicative of this.

If I was wrong, then I apologize.

I am just sick of people being so damn hypocritical-- and polarized-- about everything.

Yea, that'll get the public on the Church's side. :rolleyes:

What should happen is that it should go to court, and be handled by the court. If the allegations are prove to be true, the church should not only kick the priest out of the priesthood, but excommunications too.

What....no Hockey Night in Canada?

Well fine then. I guess excommunication is okay.

But I still think there should be a reality tv show of the ceremony.

What....no Hockey Night in Canada?

Well fine then. I guess excommunication is okay.

But I still think there should be a reality tv show of the ceremony.

Eh fair enough.

Na, I'm picturing incense, tearing of robes, latin phrases and perhaps being beaten about the head and shoulders with a crucifix or something.

::laugh:: The funny thing is, I can totally picture this! Do you think it would beat out the Real World in ratings?

Neesika, I highly doubt that irony was your motive. You wanted to put Christians in a bad light. The way your post was worded is indicative of this.

If I was wrong, then I apologize.

I am just sick of people being so damn hypocritical-- and polarized-- about everything.

If I wanted to put Christians in a bad light, all I'd have to do is type this:

Fred Phelps.

The fact that this forum is intensely polarised and hypocritical is EXACTLY why I make fun of things like this.

Hahahaha...when I really want to be insulting, I'll start with...."Look, I'm not anti-Christian...in fact, some of my best friends are Christian...BUT"

Its Texas. :rolleyes:

Ok, I joke.
But seriously, some ppl are just plain dumb.

Hey, we need to recruit people into the priesthood too. Having our priest (or ex-priest) head off isn't exactly a message you want to send to those thinking about joining the priesthood.

Ah, but it would add that element of danger. You know, to attract the thrill-seeking crowd that normally wouldn't think of a career with relatively no excitement.

::laugh:: The funny thing is, I can totally picture this! Do you think it would beat out the Real World in ratings?

I know I'd watch it.

"Pass me the holy ass-kicking slippers! Now I shall count to three, and three shall be the number of the counting...."

[snip]You just can't get more secular than Europe,

Yeah, like the official church of England, the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland, Vatican City, etc...


Aaaaannyway...

This is damn stupid. Why don't they just burn a cross and get it over with?

Fucking lame.

Hahahaha...when I really want to be insulting, I'll start with...."Look, I'm not anti-Christian...in fact, some of my best friends are Christian...BUT"

hehehe.

Yeah, like the official church of England, the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland, Vatican City, etc...


Aaaaannyway...

This is damn stupid. Why don't they just burn a cross and get it over with?

Fucking lame.

Ummmm,

http://www.aclumontana.org/PublicEducation/CD/50Cases/50CasesImages/Brandenburg.jpg

This is why we don't 'burn a cross'.

Yeesh. I am endlessly amazed by the sheer assholishness of people.

(Oh, and as far as the tangent this thread has gone down, I think it is 100% fair to condemn the priests who engaged in and bishops who covered up child molestations, but I don't think it's fair to attack priests as a whole. I feel fairly confident that the majority of priests are nice guys who have no desire to molest or mistreat children, and I've personally seen more than one of these nice guys treated pretty badly because idiots have got it into their heads that all Catholic priests lust after kids. Please, don't encourage the idiots.)

Ummmm,

http://www.aclumontana.org/PublicEducation/CD/50Cases/50CasesImages/Brandenburg.jpg

This is why we don't 'burn a cross'.
Thats what he meant he was comparing the people in the OP to the Klan.

Ok, what the heck does OP stand for? Whenever I think I have the meaning, I swear it morphs into something else.

Ok, what the heck does OP stand for? Whenever I think I have the meaning, I swear it morphs into something else.

Original Poster. The person who starts the thread.

Ok, what the heck does OP stand for? Whenever I think I have the meaning, I swear it morphs into something else.

I've always understood it to mean "original post."

Thats what he meant he was comparing the people in the OP to the Klan.

Oh, I thought he ment that Catholics should burn a cross, I totally misread that lol.

Thanks, to both! :fluffle:

(Ha! it's called a 'fluffle'. I think that just made my day)

I've always understood it to mean "original post."

Original Post, Original Poster, or Oh Poop.

Well, all I have to say to Craig Baker is "Thank You!".

I needed an idea to make a webcomic strip, and his idiocy provided me with just the right material! I just finished the strip, it will be up in a few days. Isn't it grand? :)

How many of those cases are real though. I mean yes there were pedophile priest, but have you ever thought about how easy it would be to make a charge like this?

It was compiled at the request of the catholic church and based upon data they provided. I see no reason to think that it is wildly inaccurate or the product of false reports of abuse.

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.


How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

I'd rather have the muslims as my neighbors than these jackholes. :p

Same thing happened in my area last year. The residents were worried about falling property values and being woken up by "wailing" at the crack of dawn.

Yeah, I know the real reasons. :rolleyes:

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.

How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

While it is pathetic, try getting a permit to build a church in a high end neighborhood.

The NIMBY's will come out of the woodwork, claiming that the fundies will lower the property values. Lawsuits, etc.

Our church has a lot of land (extremely prime real estate in county, right next to a high end shopping mall).

We've been trying to get permits to build a new building for the past five years - all to no avail.

Builders on the immediately adjacent lots got their permits to build condos in two weeks.

Why? Because the condo developers said that a church would ruin the view (not that there isn't one already, but it's small and unobtrusive).

Muslims don't hold up sign, they just blow themselves up, and yes it would be sad if Muslims did that because the Christians wouldn't be doing anything wrong either. Eh as to praying on a flight, that's not the problem, the problem is when you get suspicious behavior.

No, the problem is that too many in this country consider Muslim prayer itself to be suspicious behavior.

While it is pathetic, try getting a permit to build a church in a high end neighborhood.

The NIMBY's will come out of the woodwork, claiming that the fundies will lower the property values. Lawsuits, etc.

Our church has a lot of land (extremely prime real estate in county, right next to a high end shopping mall).

We've been trying to get permits to build a new building for the past five years - all to no avail.

Builders on the immediately adjacent lots got their permits to build condos in two weeks.

Why? Because the condo developers said that a church would ruin the view (not that there isn't one already, but it's small and unobtrusive).

Thanks, that answers a question I was going to ask. I can understand concerns about "property values". However, if a church is acceptable, a mosque should be. Interesting that nobody complained about the condos ruining the view. ;)

No, the problem is that too many in this country consider Muslim prayer itself to be suspicious behavior.
To put the airplane incident in perspective, we live in a time when TOOTHPASTE is considered too dangerous to take on a plane. Compared to that, a bunch of praying Musilms is downright terrifying! :eek:

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.


How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

a comparison? it's like....texas - texas defies description. I actually work in a building where muslims hold prayer - it's a hotel and my boss is an indian muslim. they hold a baptist-ish church on the same day a few hours earlier. it's not deliberate, but the ecumenicism makes me happy. the muslims who come there to pray every sunday night are also a damn sight nicer than most of the people I come into contact with. unless my boss buying everybody a turkey for thanksgiving, giving me a birthday present, and giving hefty discounts to anybody with an affiliation with the local children's hospital counts as terrorism, I sure haven't seen any. hating muslims is bullshit. if I had to compare the number of rude, agressive, and insensitive christians I've met to the same number of muslims, (actually, I've never met a rude muslim, not that I've met many at all) I'd have to conclude christians were vastly more likely to be "terrorists". grr.

*Sighs with Nazz*

Absolutely terrible. Nothing else can be said.

i think :rolleyes: is all that needs to be said


perhaps with an added :upyours: to the obviously xenophobic, racist and just plain stupid people in that community

im muslim and i dont see why evreyone has to act like we are just a bunch of people who like to :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

To put the airplane incident in perspective, we live in a time when TOOTHPASTE is considered too dangerous to take on a plane. Compared to that, a bunch of praying Musilms is downright terrifying! :eek:

Only if accept the bullshit your governments spew.

No, the problem is that too many in this country consider Muslim prayer itself to be suspicious behavior.

It's worse than that. Many consider speaking an "Arabic-sounding language" and having a beard as suspicious.

wow thats pretty stupid (now i see why lots of people run away when they see a american cop in africa)

man id rather be homeless just to get away from the assholes in that town

Let's just call this guy Assholio and be done with it.

How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

I wouldn't exactly call this pathetic, the towns people are conducting their democractic right to protest and should be applauded.

While any religious faction has a right to build a mosque or any other worship area, I must point out that choosing where to put it should always be taken into consideration. It is their responsibility. As far as the article states, and from the comments implied I see really no evidence of any demographics or opinion polls taken, or consultation with the local community which could have quite easily diffused the situation before any considerable investment was put forward.

The objections of the towns people are quite valid. First of all the Islamic call to prayer is directly contradictory to a Christians belief system, thusly insulting, if the person knows what it means, on a daily basis. Not to mention that it is loud, and everyone is supposed to hear it.

Secondly, it will increase traffic volume in the area, residents always despise such events.

Thirdly the concern in regard to terrorism shouldn't be thrown under the carpet. It is proven, that certain extremist groups groom terrorists in a Mosque environment, now if this would be one of these is another matter entirely and shouldn't be stressed, however in our Muslim hysteric society, of course these towns people are going to be concerned. What is effectively happening is a large volume of strangers are entering their community on a daily basis; and no one really wants that.


*sighs too*

There's nothing wrong with setting up a mosque. If the Christian have a Church, the Jews have a Synagogue, Buddhist have Temple, then the Muslim should have a Mosque. They're not doing anything illegal, so this really is sad.

Once again I would disagree. They are placing a Mosque in what appears to be a predominantly Christian area, it's akin to placing a Church in the middle of Mecca. There is of course going to be outrage and it's perfectly understandable. The planners of this Mosque should clearly have done their research before hand.

Is there an animal that is offensive to Christians, more importantly the sects these people are involved in? I figure I should go down there and start protesting, saying these people are going to start another Crusade. Obviously, their churches are breeding grounds for Crusaders.

Last time I checked, there isn't a few thousand protesters marching through Washington declaring a Crusade on the East, unlike vast protests in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt..... So please, point me to where the Catholic church has declared a Crusade in the last decade, last time I checked a Christian Church predominantly teaches peace and non violence, where, and I can understand why. Some Imams have warped and distorted the meaning of Jihad and regularly and publicly call for it.

What you can't smell is humour.

Making fun of pedophile priests is amusing...you just have to admit that part...

I'm sure the children who were raped agree with you there. Yes, very hilarious.

No, the problem is that too many in this country consider Muslim prayer itself to be suspicious behavior.

To an informed Christian, one who knows the meaning of the call to prayer, it's a direct daily insult ot his or her beliefs.

God is most great. God is most great.
God is most great. God is most great.
I testify that there is no God except God.
I testify that there is no God except God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Come to prayer! Come to prayer!
Come to success! Come to success!
God is most great. God is most great.
There is none worthy of worship except God.

Now as a Christian, I see most of that as being awesome considering we both worship the same God, however huge differences arise between us when it comes to Muhammad (Peace be upon him). Obviously we believe he had nothing to do with God and the Islamic faith believes he did. Now obviously if he did, then we Christians are doing everything wrong, and if he hadn't then the Muslims are doing everything right.

Muhammed (Peace be upon him.) believed that Jesus was not the son of God, and really to hear daily pronouncements of Muhammad (Peace be upon him.) being the messenger of God, well it would grate on me.

man id rather be homeless just to get away from the assholes in that town

I assume you then therefore surrender your right to protest, as that would make you an asshole some time in the future. Just because your protest is against popular political correctness, hardly makes you an asshole for stating it merely unpopular. Sometimes the opinions and view points of those outside the politically correct spectrum are the correct ones.

A few off the top of my head are anti war campaigners in Iraq, who claimed there were no weapons of mass destruction and subsequently proven correct. However the post 9/11 USA, made it very difficult for anyone to state a protest to the White House with good logic behind it when faced with the PC "We're going to stop terrorism" agenda.

While it is pathetic, try getting a permit to build a church in a high end neighborhood.

The NIMBY's will come out of the woodwork, claiming that the fundies will lower the property values. Lawsuits, etc.

Our church has a lot of land (extremely prime real estate in county, right next to a high end shopping mall).

We've been trying to get permits to build a new building for the past five years - all to no avail.

Builders on the immediately adjacent lots got their permits to build condos in two weeks.

Why? Because the condo developers said that a church would ruin the view (not that there isn't one already, but it's small and unobtrusive).
There's a hell of a difference between fighting a zoning battle and saying "I'm going to be as deliberately offensive as my pathetic little mind will allow" which is what this asshole is trying with the pig races.

I support these men on their war against terror! Besides, I despise Muslims. Frankly, one of the things that pissed me off the most about Benedict XVI's papacy is that he prayed with the Moslems rather than declaring another crusade against them. He should be declaring holy war against these Mohommetians, dammit. :mp5:

Deus lo volt!

There's a hell of a difference between fighting a zoning battle and saying "I'm going to be as deliberately offensive as my pathetic little mind will allow" which is what this asshole is trying with the pig races.

You should hear the fun comments during the hearings from the developers. Not pig racing, but certainly pathetic and denigrating.

I generally view anti-religious comments as equally offensive, because they stem from the same idea - that somehow, religion should be stomped out.

What? A bunch of jerky Muslims can "insist" on praying on a plane, but these guys can't pull some jerky stunts in return?
The first is a religious belief - might as well respect it, instead of unnecessarily pissing people off.

The second is just people being utter twats, which is just out of order.
It's childish, but hey, it's America. People can be as obnoxious as they want to be.
If some Muslims started pissing on Bibles in Texas, they'd get lynched. People can seemingly be as obnoxious as they like, as long as they're white Christians.

The really stupid thing about all this is that Judaism has a similar regard of pigs that Islam does.

If some Muslims started pissing on Bibles in Texas, they'd get lynched. People can seemingly be as obnoxious as they like, as long as they're white Christians.

Ya think? Do you believe that Christians would riot if some 3BIL Muslims pissed on a Bible that there would be rioting worldwide by fundamentalist Christians?


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20879483-2702,00.html

No riots... no lynching... no protest marchers....

"And next-door neighbor Craig Baker has threatened to race pigs on the edge of the property on the Muslim holy day."

I'm sure the Baker Family Marathon will be a big draw.

I wouldn't exactly call this pathetic, the towns people are conducting their democractic right to protest and should be applauded.

No. They are exercising their democratic right to be xenophobic and ignorant. They should merely be tolerated.

While any religious faction has a right to build a mosque or any other worship area, I must point out that choosing where to put it should always be taken into consideration. It is their responsibility. As far as the article states, and from the comments implied I see really no evidence of any demographics or opinion polls taken, or consultation with the local community which could have quite easily diffused the situation before any considerable investment was put forward.

This is solely a consideration of zoning issues, which are usually left to a municipal urban planning committee. Sometimes there are public forums. Sometimes there are not. The Islamic community wishing to build a mosque has no responsibility outside of this to require community support. The people in the community do not need to be consulted.

The objections of the towns people are quite valid. First of all the Islamic call to prayer is directly contradictory to a Christians belief system, thusly insulting, if the person knows what it means, on a daily basis. Not to mention that it is loud, and everyone is supposed to hear it.

The Christians who live in this community can therefore be offended. I know that every Christian I know assumes I am going to Hell. If I am offended by this, that's my problem. The Christian churches are not obliged to address my concerns in this manner. In fact, it is legal for Christians to stand on a street corner and bellow my damnation at me through a bullhorn.

Secondly, it will increase traffic volume in the area, residents always despise such events.

This is an urban planning issue. And it is not what the OP is addressing.

Thirdly the concern in regard to terrorism shouldn't be thrown under the carpet.

Then every Baptist Church should have to prove to the community that its parish does not support bombing abortion clinics, beating homosexuals, supporting white supremacy groups, etc. The minimal threat of terrorism in this context is approximately equal to the risk of Christian churches in the area supporting one of these violent groups. And it is a small risk that we all share as part of the price of living in a free society.

What is effectively happening is a large volume of strangers are entering their community on a daily basis; and no one really wants that.

The ones who don't really want it are the ones who don't like strangers. And their opinions matter less than the rights of citizens to practice their religion freely.

First things first -- does anyone know the layout of the neighborhood in Katy, TX in which this whole debacle is happening?

If it's a completely residential area, socked-in with houses and speed limits of 25mph and only two-lane roads without stoplights, then I agree, the Muslims chose a poor spot for their mosque and should be encouraged to relocate.

However, I'm not inclined to believe that this is the case, as anyone farming pigs needs more room than a standard suburban subdivision lot. So there goes the "increased traffic" argument and the crowding argument.

As for the "building a mosque in a Christian neighborhood" argument, I'll go out on a limb and guess that there are no other mosques within, say, 100 miles of Katy, TX. Exactly where is the "Muslim neighborhood" in which they might build their mosque? Apparently, there are enough Muslims in Katy and the surrounding environs to necessitate the building of a mosque, so that argument is completely bogus as well.

There's also a racial element here. A similar problem happened in Bellevue, WA (on the east side of Lake Washington across from Seattle and a very high-end city), only it was a Korean Christian church. All kinds of esoteric and patently flimsy arguments were made against the church's construction, including height restrictions, land use restrictions, and many others which were all refuted by zoning laws and other city ordinances. In the end, the church was built despite the complaints of neighbors, and wouldn't you know it? Property values not only didn't collapse, but kept going up as they always do in Bellevue. What the majority white residents really didn't want was "feriners" in their neighborhood.

Sorry, Texas, but those "feriners" need a place to live, and so long as they're in the legal citizenship process or are indeed citizens, they can put it anywhere it's not going to be an unreasonable hindrance to traffic, zoning, or anything else the local government has in its laws. If Katy, TX can show the world what laws are being violated, I'll be glad to support their opposition. Until then, "Human Being Up" and stuff a damn sock in it.

There's also a racial element here. A similar problem happened in Bellevue, WA (on the east side of Lake Washington across from Seattle and a very high-end city), only it was a Korean Christian church. All kinds of esoteric and patently flimsy arguments were made against the church's construction, including height restrictions, land use restrictions, and many others which were all refuted by zoning laws and other city ordinances. In the end, the church was built despite the complaints of neighbors, and wouldn't you know it? Property values not only didn't collapse, but kept going up as they always do in Bellevue. What the majority white residents really didn't want was "feriners" in their neighborhood.


We've gotten an anti-religious element in our case (we're trying to build a larger version of our currently existing church on the land we own.

The condo developers told the planning commission that the presence of a visible church building near their property would "lower property values" because they foresee that the majority of the condo occupants would be atheists.

It went on for paragraphs. You would have thought that a church was somewhere where a secret cult barbequed children and sold their crispy skin as snacks.

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.


How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

Comparisons, those muslims have it easy compared to their Christian counterparts in Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey. So start ranting about those nations as well if you wish to be unbiased.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51586.htm

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=4629

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA11002

Though he now concedes the Muslims are probably not after his land, Baker said he is obligated to go through with the pig races, probably within the next few weeks, because “I would be like a total idiot if I didn’t. I’d be the laughingstock now because I’ve gone too far.”Too late... :rolleyes:

anyhoo... Maybe he can charge a fee and donate the proceeds to their building fund by way of apology.

The really stupid thing about all this is that Judaism has a similar regard of pigs that Islam does.

Which is "we just do not eat them, we have nothing against them and we do not find them offensive."

Which means the moron not only showed himself as an idiot, but also failed on what he was trying to do - piss them off. :p

one man's mosque is another man's pig race.

Pig races-thats great !!!

I bet people will be knocking down the doors to attend a pig race. :p

How pathetic is this?

Too pathetic to put into words.

Which is "we just do not eat them, we have nothing against them and we do not find them offensive."

Which means the moron not only showed himself as an idiot, but also failed on what he was trying to do - piss them off. :p

Ain't it grand to watch idiots in action?

on a semi-related note- which do you feel you would be welcomed in as you entered?
A pig race.
A mosque.

Dont answer me. Just be honest with yourself and think about it. You know the answer and you dont have to explain it to anyone.

on a semi-related note- which do you feel you would be welcomed in as you entered?
A pig race.
A mosque.

Dont answer me. Just be honest with yourself and think about it. You know the answer and you dont have to explain it to anyone.

I'm still wondering how they separate the male and female pigs for the race. No, wait, that's the mosque.

Eh I'm just saying, priest are around children all the time, and alone with them. So it wouldn't be very hard to make up a false report.

It's not as black and white as that. My friend was molested when he was a kid. But he didn't recieve a penny. His parents were very religious and the church came up to them and explained how bad it would look if this got out. How The priest would be punished, and how it would be better to sweep this all under the rug.

And that's exactly what happened. This story was never reported in any papers, he recieved nothing more then a "we're sorry". I wonder how many of those situations are out there also?

No, more's the pity, no animal taboos. Really, the closest you could come, offense-wise, would be to have sex on the front steps of a Christian church, but I think Islam has rules against that, too.

Depending on the denomination, you could do a bit of mime. involving mock molestation of an altar boy and shoving it all under the carpet.....

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?

Yes we would, if they were in my country protesting the freedom of Christians to put up a church on the land they own while doing purposfully hatefully things then yes I would

Most of us here would

Let's just call this guy Assholio (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095716/) and be done with it.


How pathetic is this? Someone some up with a comparison for me--I'm boggled.

And I thought the world already had enough assholes. (sighs)

on a semi-related note- which do you feel you would be welcomed in as you entered?
A pig race.
A mosque.

Dont answer me. Just be honest with yourself and think about it. You know the answer and you dont have to explain it to anyone.
Considering I'd be forced to stand at the back, out of the way, and run the risk of being told that Mohammed preferred women to stay at home instead of go to a mosque, I feel my answer may be different from yours.

Considering I'd be forced to stand at the back, out of the way, and run the risk of being told that Mohammed preferred women to stay at home instead of go to a mosque, I feel my answer may be different from yours.

Depends on the mosique. I have been to a few Christian churches in the area who do not allow women to speak at mass either ... Nice of Paul to pass on sexism as well

Depends on the mosique. I have been to a few Christian churches in the area who do not allow women to speak at mass either ... Nice of Paul to pass on sexism as well

Really? I've never been to a church/chapel where that was anywhere near the case....admittedly I haven't been to that many churches (and one mosque, where what I described earlier actually happened), but enough to know that most are fairly welcoming to anybody. I suppose you get backwardness everywhere

I support these men on their war against terror! Besides, I despise Muslims. Frankly, one of the things that pissed me off the most about Benedict XVI's papacy is that he prayed with the Moslems rather than declaring another crusade against them. He should be declaring holy war against these Mohommetians, dammit. :mp5:

Deus lo volt!

I don't know what's funnier, the fact that you think this iconoclastic tripe is going to get you attention and is therefore worthwhile to post, or the fact that no one has paid attention to you.

Really? I've never been to a church/chapel where that was anywhere near the case....admittedly I haven't been to that many churches (and one mosque, where what I described earlier actually happened), but enough to know that most are fairly welcoming to anybody. I suppose you get backwardness everywhere

I've seen churches where women were not supposed to take much of an active part int he services.

I've also seen footage (albeit from the '60's) of a deacon putting a black man in a headlock and dragging him down the church steps to waiting police car, just for trying to enter. At the church that same man did attend while living in that city, the entire congregation took a vote on whether or not to allow him in at all - since he was black and all.

I've heard a Catholic priest bemoan the number of non-Catholics who come to Catholic mass on holidays.

There are certainly mysogynistic and racist Muslims, but those same traits exist among Christians as well. Most of the Muslims I've met have been very welcoming - and I'm a non-Muslim woman. Most of the Christians I've met have been very welcoming as well - even of non-Christians.

Really? I've never been to a church/chapel where that was anywhere near the case....admittedly I haven't been to that many churches (and one mosque, where what I described earlier actually happened), but enough to know that most are fairly welcoming to anybody. I suppose you get backwardness everywhere

Yeah we get a lot of stiffed necked catholics up in farm country :p

I've seen churches where women were not supposed to take much of an active part int he services.

I've also seen footage (albeit from the '60's) of a deacon putting a black man in a headlock and dragging him down the church steps to waiting police car, just for trying to enter. At the church that same man did attend while living in that city, the entire congregation took a vote on whether or not to allow him in at all - since he was black and all.

I've heard a Catholic priest bemoan the number of non-Catholics who come to Catholic mass on holidays.

There are certainly mysogynistic and racist Muslims, but those same traits exist among Christians as well. Most of the Muslims I've met have been very welcoming - and I'm a non-Muslim woman. Most of the Christians I've met have been very welcoming as well - even of non-Christians.
True Like I said I have been to some of those churches, but I have been to extremely open and welcome ones too

I've seen churches where women were not supposed to take much of an active part int he services.

Even now, though?

It just seems so....backward.

When I was younger we went to a Methodist church here in Belfast. Not out of any religious conviction, but because that's what our family (grandparents, cousins etc.) did on a Sunday morning. We all sat in a couple of pews one after the other, the whole family sitting together. My grandparents loved it. Anyway, I digress. Anybody was welcome to say to the minister if they wanted to do a reading, or wanted to lead a prayer, or do the talk to the kids before they went off to Sunday School. Or sing in the choir, play the piano or the organ etc.

You get the idea. Almost every church I've been to have been in the same vein; everybody is welcome, and encouraged, to get involved in the service. So it just seems to...weird to think there are still churches where women are discouraged.

I've also seen footage (albeit from the '60's) of a deacon putting a black man in a headlock and dragging him down the church steps to waiting police car, just for trying to enter. At the church that same man did attend while living in that city, the entire congregation took a vote on whether or not to allow him in at all - since he was black and all.

That's the 60s...I'd would like to think they've moved on a bit since then (not that I know if they have or not)

I've heard a Catholic priest bemoan the number of non-Catholics who come to Catholic mass on holidays.

There are certainly mysogynistic and racist Muslims, but those same traits exist among Christians as well. Most of the Muslims I've met have been very welcoming - and I'm a non-Muslim woman. Most of the Christians I've met have been very welcoming as well - even of non-Christians.

Oh of course; you get the same in every religion. I'm just saying that from my one experience of a Mosque, and my experience of several churches, the Christian ones seemed more welcoming to me. More willing to include everyone in the service.

I know that if I went to a different mosque I could get the opposite reaction, but its just the experience I've had in my nearly 21 years on this earth.

Yeah we get a lot of stiffed necked catholics up in farm country :p

Stiff necked Catholics out in the wilds? Well, I never :p

the Muslims should hold Jesus on a cross races outside of the Christian churches then. Mirror idiocy so that maybe they can see a bit more clearly on how stupid they are being.

the Muslims should hold Jesus on a cross races outside of the Christian churches then. Mirror idiocy so that maybe they can see a bit more clearly on how stupid they are being.

For some reason recognizing their own stupidity strikes me as the last thing most people will do.

For some reason recognizing their own stupidity strikes me as the last thing most people will do.

me too but I'd still like to see Jesus on a cross races anyway
:p

me too but I'd still like to see Jesus on a cross races anyway
:p

It's not exactly Jesus on a cross races, but when I was in grad school at Arkansas, one of the "christian" student groups would spend the week before Easter taking turns dragging a cross made of 2x2's bolted together all over campus. The catch? It had wheels on it. They got a lot of well-deserved mockery for that, from other christian groups, no less.

It's not exactly Jesus on a cross races, but when I was in grad school at Arkansas, one of the "christian" student groups would spend the week before Easter taking turns dragging a cross made of 2x2's bolted together all over campus. The catch? It had wheels on it. They got a lot of well-deserved mockery for that, from other christian groups, no less.

what pussies! :D

I'm still wondering how they separate the male and female pigs for the race. No, wait, that's the mosque.

So, are you defending the guy's idiocy, are you claiming that muslims are pigs or do you simply enjoy tossing nonsequiturs in conversations?

I support these men on their war against terror! Besides, I despise Muslims. Frankly, one of the things that pissed me off the most about Benedict XVI's papacy is that he prayed with the Moslems rather than declaring another crusade against them. He should be declaring holy war against these Mohommetians, dammit. :mp5:

Deus lo volt!

This, folks, is the guy that got annoyed and wanted mod action for being called a nazi.

Another sigh.

The terror hysteria is bad enough. It's like the most outrageous racist stuff that used to fly around before segregation ended.

But that pig races thing -- that's just disgusting. I mean, free speech, yay! But I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.

In all fairness, muslims are mistaken in their belief that pigs are dirty, and I for one would enjoy a good pig race. mmmmm, pigs.

This, folks, is the guy that got annoyed and wanted mod action for being called a nazi.
What? He admitted he was a Nazi himself. He really called for mod action? :rolleyes:

In all fairness, muslims are mistaken in their belief that pigs are dirty, and I for one would enjoy a good pig race. mmmmm, pigs.

They don't believe that pigs are dirty in that pigs "like the mud", it's more spiritual than that. And they have nothing per se against pigs.

In all fairness, muslims are mistaken in their belief that pigs are dirty, and I for one would enjoy a good pig race. mmmmm, pigs.There's an article in the latest Rolling Stone about industrial pig farming that might convince you otherwise.

What? He admitted he was a Nazi himself. He really called for mod action? :rolleyes:

Seems so.

what pussies! :D

Actually, I think that would take some balls. I mean, you're dragging around some very un-sexy carpentry, trying to make a statement that is even less sexy than the wood.

Actually, I think that would take some balls. I mean, you're dragging around some very un-sexy carpentry, trying to make a statement that is even less sexy than the wood.

You can't really call it dragging if the thing's got wheels.

Idiots. Says a lot about Texas.

I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.
Are you sure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ) about that?

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?

It would make them assholes. I am Christian, and I think that arrogance and mocking Muslims isn't very Jesus-like of those Texans.

What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?
Everyone can pray on a flight, though if they insisted on laying out a mat and getting on the ground that would cause a safety issue.

No, of course not. After all, Muslims are oppressed all over the globe and they're standing up to their Christian oppressors.
Muslims are mostly oppressed by other Muslims, and atheists.

Of course I'm joking! Well, half way. A lot of people would say that they treat Christians equally with other religions. But really, a lot of them have the exact thought I said.
I disagree, I think that most anti-Christians are subconsciously biased.

I mean that I am biased against the Muslim faith. And I admit that. Just as I am biased against all religions outside Christianity. That doesn't mean that I hate, or am disrespectful toward, or persecute the adherents of those religions. But, I don't treat their ideas as equal.
I don't think people mean that kind of bias.

Dirty, unwashed child-raping priests. Oh wait...that one's kind of spot on.

You're clearly just as stupidly biased as anyone else. The only stereotyes you dislike are the ones that get thrown at you.

No, more's the pity, no animal taboos. Really, the closest you could come, offense-wise, would be to have sex on the front steps of a Christian church, but I think Islam has rules against that, too.

Hey, I almost did that on my prom. I didn't realize that I had parked in front of a church until the priest told me. We weren't having sex, but that's the road we where on...


Sorry, back to your regular programing....

Hey, I almost did that on my prom. I didn't realize that I had parked in front of a church until the priest told me. We weren't having sex, but that's the road we where on...


Sorry, back to your regular programing....

I've had sex in a church. The sores and boils have nearly healed, the locusts have been fumigated and I kind of like bloody water. :)

Which is "we just do not eat them, we have nothing against them and we do not find them offensive."

Which means the moron not only showed himself as an idiot, but also failed on what he was trying to do - piss them off. :p

I'd like to see everyone going to the mosque show up at the pig race.

The objections of the towns people are quite valid. First of all the Islamic call to prayer is directly contradictory to a Christians belief system, thusly insulting, if the person knows what it means, on a daily basis. Not to mention that it is loud, and everyone is supposed to hear it.

Secondly, it will increase traffic volume in the area, residents always despise such events.
The problem isn't about lodging objections to the Mosque; it's about the blatantly Islamophobic reasons for the objection.

Thirdly the concern in regard to terrorism shouldn't be thrown under the carpet. It is proven, that certain extremist groups groom terrorists in a Mosque environment, now if this would be one of these is another matter entirely and shouldn't be stressed, however in our Muslim hysteric society, of course these towns people are going to be concerned.
It depends on what sect of Islam it is.

Once again I would disagree. They are placing a Mosque in what appears to be a predominantly Christian area, it's akin to placing a Church in the middle of Mecca.
Nowhere in Texas has the religious significance of Mecca, the Vatican, Samarkand, Lourdes, etc.

It's more akin to building a church in the midst of Lumut, Malaysia. Which would surely not be a problem. (well, if Malaysia was a sufficiently religiously free society, as the US should also be)

Last time I checked, there isn't a few thousand protesters marching through Washington declaring a Crusade on the East, unlike vast protests in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt..... So please, point me to where the Catholic church has declared a Crusade in the last decade, last time I checked a Christian Church predominantly teaches peace and non violence, where, and I can understand why.
Mosques which accept jihadists are very rare.

To an informed Christian, one who knows the meaning of the call to prayer, it's a direct daily insult ot his or her beliefs.
Now I would consider that to be a legitimate complaint.

If some Muslims started pissing on Bibles in Texas, they'd get lynched. People can seemingly be as obnoxious as they like, as long as they're white Christians.
It would be rather self-defeating for a Muslim to desecrate a Bible, since they hold Jesus in high regard.

on a semi-related note- which do you feel you would be welcomed in as you entered?
A pig race.
A mosque.

Dont answer me. Just be honest with yourself and think about it. You know the answer and you dont have to explain it to anyone.
You're right. I know exactly where I would be welcomed. Even though I have never been to a pig race.

I am a white vegetarian Catholic, and I have been welcomed in a mosque.

Would you guys be saying the same thing if Muslims stood outside a church holding signs? Would it be racist and sad?Yeah.
What if Muslims insisted on praying on a flight? What would you say to that?Depends. Probably nothing, since I'd probably just be another passenger. If the seat belt lights are on or if the crew tell them that they aren't allowed to block the aisle, then tough luck.

I'd like to see everyone going to the mosque show up at the pig race.

Well, Islam is against betting, or I'd suggest the imam to buy himself a pig and get it on the race. :D

Another sigh.

The terror hysteria is bad enough. It's like the most outrageous racist stuff that used to fly around before segregation ended.

But that pig races thing -- that's just disgusting. I mean, free speech, yay! But I really do think there's a point at which you should be able to fine people for being Just Too Obnoxious For Words.

I don't. Obnoxious speech is protected too. People are free to express any opinion they want and that's the way it should be.

An Imam riding in a pig race to teach some dumb people a lesson. That would either be record breaking coolness or a clear invitation to a Islamic death sentence. Either way, it would make a fun headline.

I don't. Obnoxious speech is protected too. People are free to express any opinion they want and that's the way it should be.
Absolutely. That's not to say obnoxious speech doesn't have consequences, but they should be social ones, not legal ones.

I don't. Obnoxious speech is protected too. People are free to express any opinion they want and that's the way it should be.

But surely pig races would violate some sort of public health ordinance.

But surely pig races would violate some sort of public health ordinance.

On private land that's also a pig farm? I wouldn't think so.

On private land that's also a pig farm? I wouldn't think so.

I have to imagine that holding animal races requires some sort of permit. Unless the guy just plans on having them privately on his own property with no spectators or anything. And if that's the case, then he becomes the "crazy guy who races the pigs" dude in the neighborhood. You know, the house no one lets their kids go trick or treating to on Halloween.

You know, the house no one lets their kids go trick or treating to on Halloween.

If that's what I have to do to get kids to quit bothering me on Halloween then so be it!

I've had sex in a church. The sores and boils have nearly healed, the locusts have been fumigated and I kind of like bloody water. :)

It's a miracle! :D

I may not agree with Islam; but I wouldn't go out of my way to offend Muslims. That is just so intolerant. [Those Texans... ;)]

And if that's the case, then he becomes the "crazy guy who races the pigs" dude in the neighborhood. You know, the house no one lets their kids go trick or treating to on Halloween.

I think we have a "funniest post" winner. :D

*Pictures the guy with a half-crazed smile handing ham to the children that dare go there.*