NationStates Jolt Archive

People are slipping!

I would have bet money somebody would have mentioned it(I know I just did! :) ) and I would see the usual bilge about who really won WWII.

One of the American pilots who managed to get into the air died a couple days ago. The other died back in the 50s. Test pilot :eek:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/8467544p-8362075c.html

Huh? What? Who cares...

I just hate people who love the shoddiest excuse for film that was the movie.

I just hate people who love the shoddiest excuse for film that was the movie.

How long was the movie again?

*Because I think they put the actual movie, not counting special features or anything, on two seperate disks at some point. Could be wrong though.*

I just hate people who love the shoddiest excuse for film that was the movie.

I miss you more than Michael Bay missed the mark,
When he made Pearl Harbor.
I miss you more than that movie missed the point,
And that's an awful lot, girl.
And now, now you've gone away,
And all I'm trying to say,
is: Pearl Harbor sucked... and I miss you.
I need you like Ben Affleck needs acting school,
He was terrible in that film.
I need you like Cuba Gooding needed a bigger part,
He's way better than Ben Affleck.
And now, all I can think about is your smile,
and that shitty movie, too!
Pearl Harbor sucked... and I miss you.
Pearl Harbor sucked, just a little bit more than I miss... you.

:D

I was a little surprised not to see a thread. Where's MTAE when you need him? He would have done "The Persecution of Mark Foley is the New Pearl Harbor" and it would have been wonderful, with fireworks and flames and people getting banned and deleted Right and Left.

I hear also that the Memorial in Hawaii is in sad need of repair, it's being ground to pieces by the traffic of tourists.

People are slipping!

I would have bet money somebody would have mentioned it(I know I just did! :) ) and I would see the usual bilge about who really won WWII.

One of the American pilots who managed to get into the air died a couple days ago. The other died back in the 50s. Test pilot :eek:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/8467544p-8362075c.html

I visited Pearl Harbor to pay my respects on December 7th a few years ago. There were many heroic acts the day of the attack.
And there are still the remains of many men in that harbor.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

I rather like how they made it run full circle by parking the Missouri where Battleship Row was.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

Because it was a moment that defined the American mindset for the next 60+ years, the mindset of a superpower.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

Well, why there isn't specifically any reason you should care, I would like to point out that there are plenty of things that happened in other countries before people were born that they should care about.

Holocaust springs to mind. World War Two in general.

From a religious standpoint, if you swing that way, the life and death of *insert religious figure here*.

Etc.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

See, it happened in the US. So, for some reason we should give a fuck... I think it's due to them thinking the world revolves around them. It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart.

Because it was a moment that defined the American mindset for the next 60+ years, the mindset of a superpower.

I rest my case.

Ohhh

Once there was a bunch
O' them evil folks
From O'er the seas
of Storms!

Them nasty bastards,
This December
The Seventh

Them bloody
Satanistic
Demons
They bombed and ate small
Children

Our guns and rockets
Though blessed by god
Were nothing against
their unholy
fury

Though
It took us 4
years
We finally
got our vengeance
The demons and there
spawn
Became one
of the few things
vaporized by
God's will!


End sarcastic and spontaneous patriotic song.

Because it was a moment that defined the American mindset for the next 60+ years, the mindset of a superpower.
"Everyone's after us!!!1!!onehundredandonethousandonehundredandeleven11!" :eek:

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

Huh? What? Who cares...

I knew you wouldn't sweety! ;)

"Everyone's after us!!!1!!onehundredandonethousandonehundredandeleven11!" :eek:

Essentially, yes.

It's impossible to view any American action abroad after 1941 without viewing it through the lens of the Pearl Harbor syndrome, which is rather unfortunate, because it makes American policy far more aggressive than it would otherwise be.

See, it happened in the US. So, for some reason we should give a fuck... I think it's due to them thinking the world revolves around them. It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart.

Ah, so that gives you the right be obnoxious. Right.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

You did make a post.....

See, it happened in the US. So, for some reason we should give a fuck... I think it's due to them thinking the world revolves around them. It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart.



I rest my case.

16 of the world's 18 acres of carrier space, 50%+ of global military expenditures, ~33% of the global economy and a good couple thousand nuclear weapons seem to give lie to your low opinion of the US influence in global affairs.

I knew you wouldn't sweety! ;)

I'd be more impressed by your prophetic ability, schnookums, were it not centred on the obvious. :)

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

Yeah- you really nailed everyone there.

How about I can name the day Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed, the names of their respective bombs, the planes that delivered them and their pilots?

Some of us do know some history.

Some of us know a lot of detail from the Japanese internment camps here.

Some know about Bataan. Some know about some of the testing the Japanese did on kidnapped Chinese and Russians. Testing of biological agents dumped down village wells. Or ones they wanted to wipe out the US grain & cattle farms.

There's a lot of details. How much do you know?

And who really gives a flying fuck?

Ah, so that gives you the right be obnoxious. Right.

I think America touched Fass as a child, that's why he loathes the US so.

See, it happened in the US. So, for some reason we should give a fuck... I think it's due to them thinking the world revolves around them. It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart.

I rest my case.

It just pisses you off because you think think the world revolves around you. :D

I think America touched Fass as a child, that's why he loathes the US so.

It's not the "HE HATES AMERICA!" that gets me, its the "Why bother if you dont care?"

I think America touched Fass as a child, that's why he loathes the US so.

he really should consider huffing into his douche-bag before he hyperventilates

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

August 6th DUH!

It's not the "HE HATES AMERICA!" that gets me, its the "Why bother if you dont care?"
Same here. I don't get why he bothers to knock the US so much if it's so irrelevent.

I'd be more impressed by your prophetic ability, schnookums, were it not centred on the obvious. :)

It's a gift. Even my wife calls me the "Master of the Obvious" :)

16 of the world's 18 acres of carrier space, 50%+ of global military expenditures, ~33% of the global economy and a good couple thousand nuclear weapons seem to give lie to your low opinion of the US influence in global affairs.

As I said: "It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart." They really do think they're invaluable and non-expendable. That a negligible military loss by them should be more than a footnote, or at the top a sentence, in some history book half way around the world. No, for you see, their National Traumata (which tend to be quite the insignificant things, like say presidential assassinations or some hostage taking here or there, when compared to actual traumatic events of a scale like the death of hundreds of thousands) should be of global concern...

Yay, it's the anniversery of the day my father's country attacked my mother's country and started a confrontation in which my (distantish) uncles fought against each other which eventually led up to my mother's country nuking my father's country....:(

Ah, so that gives you the right be obnoxious. Right.

No, what gives me that right is Regeringsformen. Well, that, and being European.

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

August the Sixth for Hiroshima, August the Ninth for Nagasaki.
Hiroshima was obliterated by Little Boy, Nagasaki by Fat Man.
Perhaps 140,000 bied because of the Hiroshima bomb.
Perhaps 80,000 died because of the Nagasaki bomb.

No, what gives me that right is Regeringsformen. Well, that, and being European.

Instrument of the Government; right?

As I said: "It's a form of conceitedness rivalled only by its French counterpart." They really do think they're invaluable and non-expendable. That a negligible military loss by them should be more than a footnote, or at the top a sentence, in some history book half way around the world. No, for you see, their National Traumata (which tend to be quite the insignificant things, like say presidential assassinations or some hostage taking here or there, when compared to actual traumatic events of a scale like the death of hundreds of thousands) should be of global concern...

Mainly because we've no National Traumata in US history that quite compares to those that other states have experience, we make do with what we have.

I think America touched Fass as a child, that's why he loathes the US so.

While such behaviour would be up the US alley, true, I alas grew up quite sheltered and unabused. Well, apart from the abuse I sought for and encouraged, but that's neither here nor there...

Yay, it's the anniversery of the day my father's country attacked my mother's country and started a confrontation in which my (distantish) uncles fought against each other which eventually led up to my mother's country nuking my father's country....:(

So your dad never pissed off your mom? :p

While such behaviour would be up the US alley, true, I alas grew up quite sheltered and unabused. Well, apart from the abuse I sought for and encouraged, but that's neither here nor there...

Why don't you go spend your time doing something other than trolling US specific threads, then, eh? You can be pretty damn funny, just not when you're letting the vitriol flow.

August the Sixth for Hiroshima, August the Ninth for Nagasaki.
Hiroshima was obliterated by Little Boy, Nagasaki by Fat Man.
Perhaps 140,000 bied because of the Hiroshima bomb.
Perhaps 80,000 died because of the Nagasaki bomb.

And how many people died at Pearl Harbour? I believe it was less than 5000, but as I mentioned Swedish history books treat it en passant, so I'm not quite sure. In any case, not enough dead to actually be worth remembering the figure.

People are slipping!

I would have bet money somebody would have mentioned it(I know I just did! :) ) and I would see the usual bilge about who really won WWII.

One of the American pilots who managed to get into the air died a couple days ago. The other died back in the 50s. Test pilot :eek:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/8467544p-8362075c.html

I was going to make one, but with all the sentiment about Glorifying 9/11...

sadly, it looks like that this commemoration would be the last that would include survivors of the Attack, (the commemoration is every 5 yrs.)

And how many people died at Pearl Harbour? I believe it was less than 5000, but as I mentioned Swedish history books treat it en passant, so I'm not quite sure. In any case, not enough dead to actually be worth remembering the figure.

A little under three-thousand.

But in the US, we measure events by the standards set by international realism, and to a realist, the deaths of three-thousand American sailors are more important internationally than the deaths of a few million Rwandans. It's harsh, but that's reality.

And how many people died at Pearl Harbour? I believe it was less than 5000, but as I mentioned Swedish history books treat it en passant, so I'm not quite sure. In any case, not enough dead to actually be worth remembering the figure.

Thanks Fass, glad to see you catagorize events by HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IN THAT ONE EVENT. :rolleyes:

Instrument of the Government; right?

That is its bastardised English moniker, yes.

Mainly because we've no National Traumata in US history that quite compares to those that other states have experience, we make do with what we have.

Precisely. And the world isn't exactly known to give a rat's ass about the grander, more illustrious national traumata of other countries (with a few notable exceptions), so you can see why yours don't exactly register all that high.

Why don't you go spend your time doing something other than trolling US specific threads, then, eh? You can be pretty damn funny, just not when you're letting the vitriol flow.

Good God,Man-you're in for it now.

You know, I really don't give a fuck Fass, go be funny. Do what you're good at. Not spend your time being a douche.

Yay, it's the anniversery of the day my father's country attacked my mother's country and started a confrontation in which my (distantish) uncles fought against each other which eventually led up to my mother's country nuking my father's country....:(
Take heart. The son of a Pearl Harbor survivor along with a veteran of the Pacific War and the Battle of Okinawa met the son of a victim of Hiroshima (And who himself is a survivor of the bombing) and got along very well.

Of course that could have been because they were having too much fun teasing the hell out of my wife and I on the occasion of our wedding. :D

That is its bastardised English moniker, yes.


Well? I don't speak the language but a dumb American did recognize it! ;)

When I was in Stockholm, a bored waitress talked to me about things.....

Thanks Fass, glad to see you catagorize events by HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IN THAT ONE EVENT. :rolleyes:

Well, as there's no other reason for me to score it higher, seeing as there's no motive for me to have some derisory emotional connection to it, that's what one can objectively go on.

Precisely. And the world isn't exactly known to give a rat's ass about the grander, more illustrious national traumata of other countries (with a few notable exceptions), so you can see why yours don't exactly register all that high.
Given that this attack led to US entry into WWII, I'd say it is as important in terms of history as the assisnation of the Arch-Duke which led to WWI. It ain't the number killed, it's what happens afterwards that's important.

Take heart. The son of a Pearl Harbor survivor along with a veteran of the Pacific War and the Battle of Okinawa met the son of a victim of Hiroshima (And who himself is a survivor of the bombing) and got along very well.

Of course that could have been because they were having too much fun teasing the hell out of my wife and I on the occasion of our wedding. :D
This year, they showed Japanese Pilots who took part on that day meeting the survivors. They to got along fine.

A little under three-thousand.

I thought as few.

But in the US, we measure events by the standards set by international realism, and to a realist, the deaths of three-thousand American sailors are more important internationally than the deaths of a few million Rwandans. It's harsh, but that's reality.

Et, oui, les Francais se font dépasser encore une fois... (pas que je veuille ridiculer les Francais... euh... ouais...)

Well, as there's no other reason for me to score it higher, seeing as there's no motive for me to have some derisory emotional connection to it, that's what one can objectively go on.

and no one is asking you to. However, it is an event that is important to some Americans and it is an event that changed America. I don't ask you to have an Emotional Connection, but at least so respect for those who do have an emotional connection to it.

just as, I hope, you don't expect me to have any emotional attachement to any of your country's memorable events, you can count on me to show respect for what you and your country hold dear. You will not see me ridiculeing nor demeaning nor minimizing any event that you and your country holds dear.

Given that this attack led to US entry into WWII, I'd say it is as important in terms of history as the assisnation of the Arch-Duke which led to WWI.

Honey, please. That assassination started a global war, and you don't exactly see mourners at the grave of that particular royal, now do you? Pearl Harbour just brought a straggler on board of one war already raging and which was even by then decided, seeing as Russia was inevitably going to defeat Germany as it by and large did in the end.

It ain't the number killed, it's what happens afterwards that's important.

I'm not denying that Hiroshima and Nagasaki as disgusting atrocities are important.

This year, they showed Japanese Pilots who took part on that day meeting the survivors. They to got along fine.

Japanese pilot: "That was about 08:15. Drop! Torpedo heading right for the California..."

American survivor: "Hey, I was on the California at the time. That was me...!"

*AWKWARD*

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

Are you saying 'hiroshima day' should be a national holiday?

and no one is asking you to. However, it is an event that is important to some Americans and it is an event that changed America. I don't ask you to have an Emotional Connection, but at least so respect for those who do have an emotional connection to it.

just as, I hope, you don't expect me to have any emotional attachement to any of your country's memorable events, you can count on me to show respect for what you and your country hold dear. You will not see me ridiculeing nor demeaning nor minimizing any event that you and your country holds dear.

The thing is, you won't ever be seeing me currying commiseration with us in this manner.

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

Hiroshima was a great event. It saved millions of lives in the long run.

You know, I really don't give a fuck Fass, go be funny. Do what you're good at. Not spend your time being a douche.

Sure, massah! Let me scurry to entertain you by being a douche with someone more resilient...

Japanese pilot: "That was about 08:15. Drop! Torpedo heading right for the California..."

American survivor: "Hey, I was on the California at the time. That was me...!"

*AWKWARD*

I believe the reply would've been...
Japanese:"I'm glad It missed you."
American: "yep... by *that* much...

The thing is, you won't ever be seeing me currying commiseration with us in this manner.thing is fass, I don't need to. however, you also don't need to belittle what someone else thinks is important only because YOU don't. you really didn't need to post in this thread if you really felt that way. but since this is a thread concerning the USA... :rolleyes:

Hiroshima was a great event. It saved millions of lives in the long run.Please don't troll or bait here.

Well? I don't speak the language but a dumb American did recognize it! ;)

You're not dumb.

When I was in Stockholm, a bored waitress talked to me about things.....

Why, she wanted to spread the boredom around?

Honey, please. That assassination started a global war, and you don't exactly see mourners at the grave of that particular royal, now do you? Pearl Harbour just brought a straggler on board of one war already raging and which was even by then decided, seeing as Russia was inevitably going to defeat Germany as it by and large did in the end.
And it did, but it went a whole hell of a lot quicker and ended up with the lines drawn for the Cold War (and, of course, Sweden on the other side of the curtian).

And, of course, since Europe was busy else where, they weren't all that interested in what Japan was doing.

I know you're doing this just to be your own contrary self, but you're taking it into the relm of silly historical ignorance.

I'm not denying that Hiroshima and Nagasaki as disgusting atrocities are important.
Lot more to WWII than the bombings.

Are you saying 'hiroshima day' should be a national holiday?
It's not a national holiday, but it is a day of rememberance and does fall in and around O-bon so...

Please don't troll or bait here.

It is fact. It even saved millions of Japanese lives. The other options were:

Blockade: This would've killed millions more than the A-bomb.

Invasion: Not only would millions of Japanese die, but so would over 100,000 Americans.

--------------------

GIven this, I think the use of the Atomic Bomb was a great event when you consider the alternatives.

Pearl Harbour just brought a straggler on board of one war already raging and which was even by then decided, seeing as Russia was inevitably going to defeat Germany as it by and large did in the end.


Actually no it wasn't decided at that point.

Stalingrad was 9 months away.

Germany was on the outskirts of Moscow.

Zhukov just started his winter offensive on the 5th......

thing is fass, I don't need to. however, you also don't need to belittle what someone else thinks is important only because YOU don't. you really didn't need to post in this thread if you really felt that way. but since this is a thread concerning the USA... :rolleyes:

I don't need to post in any thread, and yet I do seeing as this forum is there for people to post in threads... The thing is, this forum is regularly plagued with these things. If it isn't "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11!," it's "the Alamo" or "dead US celebrity of the day!" or "JFK!" or "Katrina!" or "some holiday/commemoration no one else celebrates!" or "another social issue solved by the rest of the civilised world decades ago" and so on and so on.

After a while one does get prone to questioning the importance of any of those, seeing as this is an international forum and such insularities would otherwise be tolerable were they not so exaggeratedly numerous.

I don't need to post in any thread, and yet I do seeing as this forum is there for people to post in threads... The thing is, this forum is regularly plagued with these things. If it isn't "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11!," it's "the Alamo" or "dead US celebrity of the day!" or "JFK!" or "Katrina!" or "some holiday/commemoration no one else celebrates!" and so on and so on.

After a while one does get prone to questioning the importance of any of those, seeing as this is an international forum and such insularities would otherwise be tolerable were they not so exaggeratedly numerous.

Fass I have a word of advice for you. If you don't like the thread, then don't fucking click on it.

It's really simple. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

It is fact. It even saved millions of Japanese lives. The other options were:

Blockade: This would've killed millions more than the A-bomb.

Invasion: Not only would millions of Japanese die, but so would over 100,000 Americans.

--------------------

GIven this, I think the use of the Atomic Bomb was a great event when you consider the alternatives.

Exactly, the A-bomb really did save lives on all sides. There would NOT be a Japan today, if the US and Russians had invaded the mainland. There would be No Japanese hertitage left save for the ones that migrated before the war. Every single Japanese citizen would be dead... brought to you by the Bushido code.

Honey, please. That assassination started a global war, and you don't exactly see mourners at the grave of that particular royal, now do you? Pearl Harbour just brought a straggler on board of one war already raging and which was even by then decided, seeing as Russia was inevitably going to defeat Germany as it by and large did in the end.

You should review your contentinental history. The Americans were involved in the War prior to the attck on Pearl Harbor, and the Russians were no where near achieving the culmination point of the Germans. The presence of another large military force threatening the southern and western border was a factor in the consideration of the German High Command when they plunged into the Eastern Front.

Furthermore, the Lend-Lease agreement with Russia also emboldened the budding world power to offensive operations. We could discuss the inter-war period and the developing Russian doctrine that may have swayed the tides of war far before they rose to epic proportions, but those causal chain of events failed to materialize and will remain immortal 'what ifs' on the lips of historians and enthusiasists alike.

The conflict was far from decided in December of 1941. Refer to the Churchill radio speeches to understand the overall feeling of dogged determination in face of overwhelming odds that the majority of the European countries shared during that winter and following Spring. Churchill speeches were renown and well-preserved; leaders of other nations also spoke of triumph in the face of evil. Unfortunately, most records are hard to obtain these days, due to the terrible destruction during the War. All spoke of an unforseeable future of hardship and struggle.

Before relying on clear and nearly accurate hindsight, understand the context before deliberately trying to provoke other nations on a day of their remembrance.

I don't need to post in any thread, and yet I do seeing as this forum is there for people to post in threads... The thing is, this forum is regularly plagued with these things. If it isn't "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11!," it's "the Alamo" or "dead US celebrity of the day!" or "JFK!" or "Katrina!" or "some holiday/commemoration no one else celebrates!" or "another social issue solved by the rest of the civilised world decades ago" and so on and so on.

After a while one does get prone to questioning the importance of any of those, seeing as this is an international forum and such insularities would otherwise be tolerable were they not so exaggeratedly numerous.

Way to be a dick.

And it did, but it went a whole hell of a lot quicker and ended up with the lines drawn for the Cold War (and, of course, Sweden on the other side of the curtian).

Ah, yes, the cold war, where two sides fear-mongered against each other, and where one's choice was "plague" or "cholera." Plague's uppence came sooner than that of cholera, but cholera is certainly getting its expected blowback...

I know you're doing this just to be your own contrary self, but you're taking it into the relm of silly historical ignorance.

I prefer that much more than self-aggrandising circle jerks... paradoxically for the latter, true.

Lot more to WWII than the bombings.

I know how people in the US like to deny or rationalise the nature of the atrocity, sort of like the Turks like to do with the Armenian genocide. Seeing the awfulness of what one as a nation has done for the awfulness that it is isn't all that an easy thing to do. Some succeed, others remain in denial and accuse others of "silly historical ignorance."

Huh? What? Who cares...

Well since your Grandpa was probably supplying goods to the Nazis at the time, I presume you wouldn't care very much.

Have any Swiss bank accounts that we should know about?

Go figure, Fass is being an asshole again. Not suprising in the least.

I know how people in the US like to deny or rationalise the nature of the atrocity, sort of like the Turks like to do with the Armenian genocide. Seeing the awfulness of what one as a nation has done for the awfulness that it is isn't all that an easy thing to do. Some succeed, others remain in denial and accuse others of "silly historical ignorance."
Fass, ask yourself, do you REALLY want to get me started on the bombings, again?

Well since your Grandpa was probably supplying goods to the Nazis at the time, I presume you wouldn't care very much.

Or he would have been assisting the likes of Raoul Wallenberg, but then again, it is of little consequence, like Sweden tends to be. Far be it from me to emulate any sort of auto-fellatio so prominent in the rest of the thread.

Have any Swiss bank accounts that we should know about?

No, no, just Jew gold teeth - still valid as currency in a bind and untraceable, that way.

Fass, ask yourself, do you REALLY want to get me started on the bombings, again?

Of Dresden?

I bet all you people who can't seem to forget Pearl Harbour are precisely the same people who can never seem to remember Hiroshima Day.

I remember both. But I'm not your average American, either.

Mainly because we've no National Traumata in US history that quite compares to those that other states have experience, we make do with what we have.

Did you sleep through the ACW? Well over half a million dead...

Of Dresden?

That was the RAF.

Furthermore, the Lend-Lease agreement with Russia also emboldened the budding world power to offensive operations.

Huh? The lend-lease was already in operation prior to Pearl Harbor.

That was the RAF.

Never has the phrase 'ornaments factories' been misread as 'armament factories' to such lethal result.

That was the RAF.

So? He did say "WWII bombings."

By the way, it did involve USAAF.

So? He did say "WWII bombings."

By the way, it did involve USAAF.

Yes, the USAAF bombed the rail yards. But it was the RAF that intentionally created the firestorm and roasted all the civilians. For no apparent reason either.

So? He did say "WWII bombings."

By the way, it did involve USAAF.

I don't give a flying fuck about Dresden. It serves them right for bringing the Nazis into power.

Yes, the USAAF bombed the rail yards. But it was the RAF that intentionally created the firestorm and roasted all the civilians. For no apparent reason either.

Revenge for the Blitz, perhaps?

Yes, the USAAF bombed the rail yards. But it was the RAF that intentionally created the firestorm and roasted all the civilians. For no apparent reason either.

You won't see me defending the bombing in any way, because it is so indefensible.

Revenge for the Blitz, perhaps?

Possibly. But I think they'd already done that. In 1943-44 area bombing was justifiable. Not by the time Dresden rolled around.

I think they just had a lot of ordinance on hand and were looking to get rid of it.

Possibly. But I think they'd already done that. In 1943-44 area bombing was justifiable. Not by the time Dresden rolled around.

I think they just had a lot of ordinance on hand and were looking to get rid of it.

I was just putting it out there. I confess that my knowlege of the incident is somewhat lacking.

You won't see me defending the bombing in any way, because it is so indefensible.

It was a different time. Win at all costs was the order of the day. I'm sure that if the allies had had to slaughter another ten million to win they would have done so. Likewise the other side.

Of course if the other side won, nobody would be wringing their hands about it sixty years later.

It was a different time.

I really don't buy that as an excuse.

I really don't buy that as an excuse.

There's nothing to excuse. Pretty much everyone who made those decisions is dead.

And it's not exactly like the British run around every Valentines day celebrating the firebombing of dresden. For the most part people accept that the wholesale firebombing of civilian populations is just not done anymore.

well, anyway, I am off to watch the cerimonies and to pop a bottle of sparkling Grape juice. (... what... I don't drink, ok.) for those men who lost their lives on that fateful day, 65 yrs ago.

i happened before i was born, in a country i'm not from. so why would I care.

because if pearl harbor hadnt been bombed the US never would have gotten into WWII, meaning germany still would have been defeated but it wouldnt have been until like 1950 at the cost of about 2 million more lives and most of the world would be communist right now because the soviet union would be the sole superpower. yes had the US not gotten into WWII the soviet union would still exist....so yeah why should you care? because 2400 innocent people were viciously murdered in an unprovoked act of war, and because the world as we know it would not exist in our wildest dreams.

Exactly, the A-bomb really did save lives on all sides. There would NOT be a Japan today, if the US and Russians had invaded the mainland. There would be No Japanese hertitage left save for the ones that migrated before the war. Every single Japanese citizen would be dead... brought to you by the Bushido code.

Yeah right - I've heard this "human-beings-as-mindless-automatons" line of reasoning before. I call major bullshit on that - this has its' basis in WWII-era anti-Yellow Peril propaganda, the sort that seems to perpetuate itself in spite of Superdickery.com.

"After all, the Nips don't respect human life - not like we do." Ringing any bells yet? I hope you got a spare quarter BT, 'cause you're playing yourself.