NationStates Jolt Archive

(Poll Coming Soon to a Forum near You)

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?

ATTENTION: When I first wrote this topic, I was unaware due to my Ignorance of the Greeks regarding the actual "X" meaning but I am now less Ignorant by understanding and knowing more of the meaning and History. However, if you want to be Technical, I believe it should be "XP" or "Xt". Who on NSG likes to be technical, anyways? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

don't care.

I always thought the X in Xmas had something to do with the cross anyway, and since you know Jesus was "born to die" or whatever it really didn't bother me.

I don't like it when people call it "santamas" though, that bothers me, but meh, as long as my kids aren't the ones doing it.

I'm a secularist and I use Christmas.

It's not an "X" really, it's the Greek letter chi, the first letter of "Christ" in that language. It's a pretty standard abbreviation for "Christ."

Oh, and I use "Christmas" more than "Xmas" but that's because ... I don't know why, really, I just do.

Christmas. It doesn't become Xmas until the year 3000.

I like Christmas, but I also like Xmas because it reminds me of Futurama.

"Oh, I'll be back. I'll be back when you least expect it: NEXT CHRISTMAS!!!"
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/Aenimus/2005_12_25.jpg

So...

Have the Christian Persuction Complexionists given up on complaining about Happy Holidays? I don't know whether to be glad or piteous about that.

Natal

Not everywhere speaks English you know.

It's not an "X" really, it's the Greek letter chi, the first letter of "Christ" in that language. It's a pretty standard abbreviation for "Christ."

okay, yeah, that's what it is, I knew it was something.

http://www.adriangilbert.co.uk/images/chirho.gif

Like in the Chi-Rho thingy. yeah.

Natal

Not everywhere speaks English you know.

Well, they should. Where are you, I'll check the Conquest By The English Language timetable and let you know when you're scheduled.

I use Xmas because it's quick and easy, plus I'm not a Christian, so I really could care less about celebrating the birth of Christ during this time.

So...

Have the Christian Persuction Complexionists given up on complaining about Happy Holidays? I don't know whether to be glad or piteous about that.

What, exactly, is "Persuction"?

It seems, given the prefix, that it would mean "suck through", "suck thoroughly", "suck to oblivion", "extreme suction", or the maximum amount of suction allowed in a compound.

SO, which is it?

So...

Have the Christian Persuction Complexionists given up on complaining about Happy Holidays? I don't know whether to be glad or piteous about that.

Also, piteous? You just said "I don't know whether to be happy or pathetic about this".

You should learn some English.

Such an important issue DOES require two threads, I agree. So Hyvää Joulua again.

I always use Christmas because that's simply what it's called, I am not a christian but I would never say 'X-Mas' because it sounds like your trying to make some stupid political point in the holidays. Shame.

Why does everyone keep saying it is "X"ing out Christ. The "X" is a a symbol for Christ!

I would rather Christmas.

after all, I would say Christopher and not Xopher
I would say Christian and not Xian
I would rather hear people say "Jesus H Christ!" and not "Jesus H X!"

:p

Why does everyone keep saying it is "X"ing out Christ. The "X" is a a symbol for Christ!

wouldn't the symbol for Christ be a "T" for Cross and not an "X"?

wouldn't the symbol for Christ be a "T" for Cross and not an "X"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_%28letter%29

What, exactly, is "Persuction"?

It's the SI unit of efficiency for vacuum cleaners. It's an abbreviation for "Watts per Unit Suction".

Anyway, I prefer Christmas, despite being a dirty, stinking Atheist. Xmas just strikes me as lazy. Still Bah, humbug, though.

Well, they should. Where are you, I'll check the Conquest By The English Language timetable and let you know when you're scheduled.

Brazil. There have been several attempts to assimilate Brazil into the English language culture. Cricket didn't catch on, but the kids still play it in the streets, and football was a little too successful for the rest of the world's liking.

Feliz Natal.

The advantage of Natal is that it refers to a Birth, but without specifying of whom.

Also, piteous? You just said "I don't know whether to be happy or pathetic about this".

You should learn some English.

When you can write as well in Spanish/French you will have room to criticise the English of a non native speaker.

*sighs* Given that Xmas is about as old as Christianity itself...
http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/xmasabbr.asp

Nope, don't feel it's Xing out Christ or anything else.

What, exactly, is "Persuction"?

It seems, given the prefix, that it would mean "suck through", "suck thoroughly", "suck to oblivion", "extreme suction", or the maximum amount of suction allowed in a compound.

SO, which is it?

Also, piteous? You just said "I don't know whether to be happy or pathetic about this".

You should learn some English.

My apologies. I seem have Type O blood.

Also, I find myself making bad puns. So piteous is the same as pitiful? Is pitying the correct term here?

Edit- On the other hand, I find I can't be bothered to make the effort in responding to posts of the OP's type. So, screw that.

When you can write as well in Spanish/French you will have room to criticise the English of a non native speaker.

Huh, I didn't know you were The Aeson.

And, yes, I can criticise anyone I want. I live in America. We have the First Amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And I am fluent with the language, so I make a very good critic, wouldn't you say?

My apologies. I seem have Type O blood.
*thinks hard, gets it*
OH! Typo! I geddit! :D
Also, I find myself making bad puns. So piteous is the same as pitiful? Is pitying the correct term here?
If something is piteous, it is in pitiful condition.
I think pitying is awkward, but it would work.

I just say merry new year.

Huh, I didn't know you were The Aeson.

And, yes, I can criticise anyone I want. I live in America. We have the First Amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And I am fluent with the language, so I make a very good critic, wouldn't you say?

On the other hand, he is not The Aeson, but neither are you King Bodacious, so...

Although English is my first language.

Finally, you may live in America, but you're on a British board, and here, will of the mods (which I find unlikely to be excersized here, just to point out) trumps First Amendment.

Finally, you ever planning to come back to II?

This reminds me of an occurance at my Catholic church last Christmas. There was a "troop" I guess you could say, of boy scouts selling wreaths for Christmas; they had a poster up at their stand saying- "X-mas Wreaths". Now, I could maybe understand having something like this if they were selling it in front of a mall or something, not wanting to offend someone..(I guess seeing the word 'christ' is offensive:rolleyes:), but, it was at a Catholic church, and I think having "X-mas" instead of "Christmas" would be more offensive. Anyway, it wasn't a big deal, but I just find it odd that it would say "X-mas" since I don't know many people that don't celebrate Christmas who would go out and buy a Christmas wreath, nor many people who go to a Catholic church and are offended by seeing the word 'Christ' in 'Christmas'.

oh.. so, I would say that I would prefer to see 'Christmas', since I don't know what the 'X' is referring to.

And I am fluent with the language, so I make a very good critic, wouldn't you say?
Actually, no. Being a native speaker does not make one a qualified teacher of ESL/EFL. That's the myth of the so-called native fluency that continues to cause damange.

This reminds me of an occurance at my Catholic church last Christmas. There was a "troop" I guess you could say, of boy scouts selling wreaths for Christmas; they had a poster up at their stand saying- "X-mas Wreaths". Now, I could maybe understand having something like this if they were selling it in front of a mall or something, not wanting to offend someone..(I guess seeing the word 'christ' is offensive:rolleyes:), but, it was at a Catholic church, and I think having "X-mas" instead of "Christmas" would be more offensive. Anyway, it wasn't a big deal, but I just find it odd that it would say "X-mas" since I don't know many people that don't celebrate Christmas who would go out and buy a Christmas wreath, nor many people who go to a Catholic church and are offended by seeing the word 'Christ' in 'Christmas'.

oh.. so, I would say that I would prefer to see 'Christmas', since I don't know what the 'X' is referring to.

look up! :p


*sighs* Given that Xmas is about as old as Christianity itself...
http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/xmasabbr.asp

Nope, don't feel it's Xing out Christ or anything else.

Why does everyone keep saying it is "X"ing out Christ. The "X" is a a symbol for Christ!

Actually, I don't think the "X" alone represents while in Greek "X" means "chi" but a "P" is supposed to be in the middle of the greeks "chi" which is "X".....as not to confuse anybody here are the links with the proper symbol from the Greeks, they have a nice picture of the correct symbol and it isn't an "X" alone.

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Symbols_of_christ.html

http://www.stlmcfm.org/symbol.htm

oh.. so, I would say that I would prefer to see 'Christmas', since I don't know what the 'X' is referring to.
Psst! The X is the Greek letter for Chi, which has stood for Christ since the Gospels have been written. It has the same meaning as the fish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_%28letter%29

unfortunatly, while it's written as X-mas, the problem is that it's not pronounced "Xmas"

it's still supposed to be said as Christmas in English. even if spelt with an X.

the greek X, or Chi has no real equivalent sound in the English language, so instead of trying to pronounce the CHI letter, which sounds almost like "ts" or a hard H as in "Loch" people ignorantly pronouce it wrong. "x"mas.

However, since no one tries to correct the pronounciation... it would be better to just say Christmas.

On the other hand, he is not The Aeson, but neither are you King Bodacious, so...
*nod*
And you are not a penguin. I understand. ;)

Although English is my first language.
:eek:
Finally, you may live in America, but you're on a British board, and here, will of the mods (which I find unlikely to be excersized here, just to point out) trumps First Amendment.
I said I could criticise, not flame or slander. :D
Finally, you ever planning to come back to II?
*shrug*
Does it not suck yet?
Actually, no. Being a native speaker does not make one a qualified teacher of ESL/EFL. That's the myth of the so-called native fluency that continues to cause damange.

*notes difference between "critic" and "teacher"*

Psst! The X is the Greek letter for Chi, which has stood for Christ since the Gospels have been written. It has the same meaning as the fish.

and the Greek letter X or "chi" has no real pronounciation equivalent in the English language.

Brazil. There have been several attempts to assimilate Brazil into the English language culture. Cricket didn't catch on, but the kids still play it in the streets, and football was a little too successful for the rest of the world's liking.

Feliz Natal.

The advantage of Natal is that it refers to a Birth, but without specifying of whom.

*flipping the pages* Brazil ... Brazil ... hmm, not for a number of years yet, so carry on with your Portuguese. :p

And the use of the single-letter abbreviation probably goes back to late Antiquity and medieval times. Remember, everything was hand-written, on expensive vellum or parchment (true paper didn't come in until quite a bit later). The scribes, monks mostly, needed to be able to turn out manuscripts quickly, so they came up with an amazing collection of abbreviations to make the writing go faster. I'm sure that learning to read in 800 AD meant learning those abbreviations. Anyway, this one has survived, is all. And it was invented by churchmen, so there's no denigration of Christ in it.

look up! :p

bother.. I knew I ought to have read the posts before I posted..
Well, I am not Greek so I claim ignorance.

I still think Christmas sounds better.. X-mas seems a bit awkward to me, but perhaps that is due to my extensive use of the word Christmas. A habit sort of thing I suppose.

Huh, I didn't know you were The Aeson.

And, yes, I can criticise anyone I want. I live in America. We have the First Amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And I am fluent with the language, so I make a very good critic, wouldn't you say?

I would find this funny if it weren't so pitiful. The degree of arrogance that enables you to correct a foreigner's English (incorrectly by the way - piteous does not mean pathetic - try dictionary.com) and then throw out a quote from the US constitution to someone living in Brazil, posting on an international forum, hosted in the UK, set up by an Australian as a justification of your lack of tolerance for someone trying to communicate in your language is astounding.

Espero que voce pode me correge aqui também, ou talvez tu não sabes outra lingua qualquer, e fique enchendo saco do seus melhores sem razão nenhuma.

I don't have to be Aeson to be offended by your lack of social skills and your bumptious pretentiousness. I too have a right to free speech, but it does not depend on your precious piece of paper. It depends on my ability to express myself and my ability to defend my right to do so.

Edit.

I have now seen that Aeson does have English as a first language, so I was wrong in that aspect. However the principle point remains the same.

X-tina! :eek:

Actually, I don't think the "X" alone represents while in Greek "X" means "chi" but a "P" is supposed to be in the middle of the greeks "chi" which is "X".....
No, actually it does. As noted in everything that's been posted so far, X is the Roman letter equivlent of Greek Chi, which, is how Christ was written way back in the dawn of Christianity.

Your idea of X'ing out something is due to an ENGLISH invention of crossing something out and has absolutly nothing to do with the orginal meaning. You're applying an English convention to something created about a 1,000 years earlier.

*nod*
And you are not a penguin. I understand. ;)

Right. If I was, I'd have the best claim to what should be said in the Holiday Season in Antartica though.

:eek:

Hey, check the edit of my initial response to you. Apathy is the best excuse. That's a tip.

I said I could criticise, not flame or slander. :D

Hence my saying that the will of the mods doesn't really apply here.

*shrug*
Does it not suck yet?

Meh. There are good bits and bad bits, but I expect there were even back in the good ole 2002 days, or whenever the board started out. So long as you stick to RPing with relatively good RPers, you shouldn't have much trouble. Kraven's getting all expandy again, if you want a chance to fight him that won't be retconned out of existence.

and the Greek letter X or "chi" has no real pronounciation equivalent in the English language.
Sadly this hasn't stopped English from grabbing any number of things from other languages and using it.

No, actually it does. As noted in everything that's been posted so far, X is the Roman letter equivlent of Greek Chi, which, is how Christ was written way back in the dawn of Christianity.
actually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas)...
"Christ" was often written as "XP" or "Xt"; there are references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle as far back as 1021 AD. This X and P arose as the uppercase forms of the Greek letters χ and ρ), used in ancient abbreviations for Χριστος (Greek for "Christ") (see Labarum), and are still widely seen in many Eastern Orthodox icons depicting Jesus Christ.

technically it's supposed to be XP = Christ

actually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas)...

technically it's supposed to be XP = Christ

So, basically...

:p-Mass? Awesome.

Sadly this hasn't stopped English from grabbing any number of things from other languages and using it.

which is why I said, I don't call someone Xopher or Xina...

an example where written doesn't really translate to verbal.

I cringe inside when someone pronounces it xmas or "echs-mas"

So, basically...

:p-Mass? Awesome.

Yep... Xpmas or Xtmas.

but use the old greek to pronounce it please...

which is why I said, I don't call someone Xopher or Xina...

an example where written doesn't really translate to verbal.

I cringe inside when someone pronounces it xmas or "echs-mas"

An aside:

Here it would be said sheesemas as the letter X is named "sheese". This has led to us having Xburgers all over the place.

Yep... Xpmas or Xtmas.

but use the old greek to pronounce it please...

I notice you *fixed* my quote. I was just commenting on the amusing similarity to an internet smiley, but what is the old Greek pronunciation? *apologizes if it has been posted already, as I missed it*.

I notice you *fixed* my quote. I was just commenting on the amusing similarity to an internet smiley, but what is the old Greek pronunciation? *apologizes if it has been posted already, as I missed it*.

oh, I thought you were putting an Xp another type of smilie... sorry... will go back and fix it. oh and the greek word for christ is Χριστος

and the Greek letter Chi ["x"] has no real equivalent.

see http://www.greek-language.com/alphabet/

Not found in English. Much like Spanish "j".

I notice you *fixed* my quote. I was just commenting on the amusing similarity to an internet smiley, but what is the old Greek pronunciation? *apologizes if it has been posted already, as I missed it*.

It's like the sound that K and H make in the word "blockhead." Ancient Greek had two ways to pronounce T, P,and K. The pronunciations we know are tau, pi and kappa. The aspirated or "breathed" ones are theta (as in "fathead"), phi (as in "shepherd") and chi.

Yep... Xpmas or Xtmas.

but use the old greek to pronounce it please...

I understood Christ in Greek to be XP but I wasn't aware of XT. From your previous posts, I'm to assume your correct for you normally keep your facts fairly straight. Thanks. :)

I have already provide a source that verifies Christ=XP however, Nervun still disregards it I guess as Fact. Oh well.......:rolleyes:

It's like the sound that K and H make in the word "blockhead." Ancient Greek had two ways to pronounce T, P,and K. The pronunciations we know are tau, pi and kappa. The aspirated or "breathed" ones are theta (as in "fathead"), phi (as in "shepherd") and chi.

So...

Expmass?

I would find this funny if it weren't so pitiful. The degree of arrogance that enables you to correct a foreigner's English (incorrectly by the way - piteous does not mean pathetic - try dictionary.com)
Why don't you try looking up "synonym"? And also "not being a whiny crusader about something that has nothing to do with you"?
and then throw out a quote from the US constitution to someone living in Brazil, posting on an international forum, hosted in the UK, set up by an Australian as a justification of your lack of tolerance for someone trying to communicate in your language is astounding.
Aww, the poor fluently-English-speaking Aeson. It's so piteous.
Why do you keep saying The Aeson is not fluent in English when he says
Although English is my first language.
?

Also, notice all countries mentioned, (outside of Brazil, which has nothing to do with this argument because it is only mentioned to suggest that Aeson is not fluent with English, which he is.) primarily speak English, and include free speech as part of their constitutions or laws (Article 10 for UK, Australian Capital Television Pty Ltd v Commonwealth for Australia, IIRC).

Also, note that no one

Espero que voce pode me correge aqui também, ou talvez tu não sabes outra lingua qualquer, e fique enchendo saco do seus melhores sem razão nenhuma.
Yo no tengo la menor idea lo que usted acaba de decir a mí. Yo realmente no cuido. Usted debe obtener una vida, y la parada que queja acerca de las cosas que no existe realmente (mi falta llamada de la tolerancia, por ejemplo).

I don't have to be Aeson to be offended by your lack of social skills and your bumptious pretentiousness. I too have a right to free speech, but it does not depend on your precious piece of paper. It depends on my ability to express myself and my ability to defend my right to do so.
Wow *tears well up* that's so... so... moving. :rolleyes:

So...

Expmass?

more like Khristmas. I think it's often taught now to be like the German "ch" only I think the sound isn't quite as strong.

I understood Christ in Greek to be XP but I wasn't aware of XT. From your previous posts, I'm to assume your correct for you normally keep your facts fairly straight. Thanks. :)

I have already provide a source that verifies Christ=XP however, Nervun still disregards it I guess as Fact. Oh well.......:rolleyes:

LOL thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm also human, and thus prone to be wrong. :p

the X as a symbol for christ can also be seen as trying to 'X' out christ. since not everyone gets involved with the Greek or old latin language.

more like Khristmas. I think it's often taught now to be like the German "ch" only I think the sound isn't quite as strong.

That looks like the 'gangsta' version of Christmas...

That looks like the 'gangsta' version of Christmas...

It does sort of.

If you google "ancient greek pronunciation" you'll find a ton of sites. Unfortunately, the one that appears best doesn't work.

So...

Have the Christian Persuction Complexionists given up on complaining about Happy Holidays? I don't know whether to be glad or piteous about that.

OK, I know you were trying to spell 'persecution' but spelled 'persuction' instead.

However 'Complexionists' isnt any kind of word...so just stop. Making up words from thin air doesnt make you sound anymore intelligent, really I promise it doesnt.

OK, I know you were trying to spell 'persecution' but spelled 'persuction' instead.

However 'Complexionists' isnt any kind of word...so just stop. Making up words from thin air doesnt make you sound anymore intelligent, really I promise it doesnt.

On the other hand, if I'm trying to lend a faint air of riddicule to the whole thing.

Also, if you've read the thread through, you may or may not have spotted my reply to Liberated New Ireland.

So fjeebus.

OK, I know you were trying to spell 'persecution' but spelled 'persuction' instead.

However 'Complexionists' isnt any kind of word...so just stop. Making up words from thin air doesnt make you sound anymore intelligent, really I promise it doesnt.
I know you were trying to spell 'isn't' or 'doesn't' but you forgot your apostrophes instead. :p

Actually, I don't think the "X" alone represents while in Greek "X" means "chi" but a "P" is supposed to be in the middle of the greeks "chi" which is "X".....as not to confuse anybody here are the links with the proper symbol from the Greeks, they have a nice picture of the correct symbol and it isn't an "X" alone.

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Symbols_of_christ.html
http://www.stlmcfm.org/symbol.htm
Actually, within English, it is well accepted.

unfortunatly, while it's written as X-mas, the problem is that it's not pronounced "Xmas"

it's still supposed to be said as Christmas in English. even if spelt with an X.

the greek X, or Chi has no real equivalent sound in the English language, so instead of trying to pronounce the CHI letter, which sounds almost like "ts" or a hard H as in "Loch" people ignorantly pronouce it wrong. "x"mas.

However, since no one tries to correct the pronounciation... it would be better to just say Christmas.I don't think I've ever actually heard someone say "xmas", now that I think about it...

actually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas)...

technically it's supposed to be XP = ChristX is acceptable. Technically, XP isn't the acceptable symbol either, but the X overlayed with the P

LOL thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm also human, and thus prone to be wrong. :p

the X as a symbol for christ can also be seen as trying to 'X' out christ. since not everyone gets involved with the Greek or old latin language.
Their ignorance is no ones problem but their own. The X=Christ came long before X=to erase or ban. It isn't even having to learn Greek or Latin...it is just as easy as learning "Alpha Omega" or the trinity.

I don't think I've ever actually heard someone say "xmas", now that I think about it...lucky you... I've heard "echs mas" so many times... :rolleyes:

X is acceptable. Technically, XP isn't the acceptable symbol either, but the X overlayed with the Pthat may be true (and I am NOT saying it isn't) however since our typewriters can't overlay the X and the P, the next closest would be to put them side by side. however tho.... it should still be pronounced Christmas.

Their ignorance is no ones problem but their own. The X=Christ came long before X=to erase or ban. It isn't even having to learn Greek or Latin...it is just as easy as learning "Alpha Omega" or the trinity.... considering that Χριστος is where the "X" is supposed to be from, then some knowledge of the Greek Alphabet as well as the Greek language and historical context is all needed to understand it correctly. And my High school/College was not big enough to have a mandatory Greek/Latin language course included... Ignorance should be everyone's problem.

how one deals with that problem says alot about that person. One can gently and politely inform and provide tools for the ignorant to research on their own, one can berate and belittle the ignorant, one can with hold knowledge from said ignorant, and one can ridicule those who do not know.

OK, I know you were trying to spell 'persecution' but spelled 'persuction' instead.

However 'Complexionists' isnt any kind of word...so just stop. Making up words from thin air doesnt make you sound anymore intelligent, really I promise it doesnt.

Actually, the Complexionists were an obscure Christian sect who flourished during the late 4th and early 5th centuries, mostly in the Antitaurus Mountains of Asia Minor. Though they have not left any texts to speak of, and the references to them in the writings of the Orthodox Chruch Fathers appear to be concerned mostly with the Complexionists lack of personal hygene, scholars believe that the Complexionists believed in the sanctity and purity (99 and 44/100%, in fact) of Christ's skin. They may have held that daily bathing and annointing with oil would keep the worshipper's skin as pure as the Savior's. They apparently washed only the face and hands, which made them obnoxious to everyone around them. Exactly what this meant to the Complexionists is not clear. The sect was forceably deported to Mesopotamia and sent across to the Persian side in 432 AD. The Persians promptly sent them back and the incident nearly resulted in open warfare. Finally an island was found in the Mediterranean, downwind from any settlements, and there the Complexionists ended their days.

I prefer writing x-mass like if I am going to label a box of stuff to store away and I say Christmas, Just easier to say personally

lucky you... I've heard "echs mas" so many times... :rolleyes: I think I would just laugh at them...really, that is just pathetic. The point of the X is the same as etc. vs et cetera. To shorten it. You don't just say "etc." unless you want to sound stupid.

that may be true (and I am NOT saying it isn't) however since our typewriters can't overlay the X and the P, the next closest would be to put them side by side. however tho.... it should still be pronounced Christmas.Ah, but humans, by nature, are lazy ;)

... considering that Χριστος is where the "X" is supposed to be from, then some knowledge of the Greek Alphabet as well as the Greek language and historical context is all needed to understand it correctly. And my High school/College was not big enough to have a mandatory Greek/Latin language course included... Ignorance should be everyone's problem.I'll spend my resources fighting ignorance of English before I tackle Greek or Latin. Christ itself was not the Son's name, nor was Jesus...yet people know those terms refer only to him, without knowing the meaning. Why can't they just learn the X or XP or overlay of the two, without having to learn where they come from? Sure, it is still ignorance, but less so.

how one deals with that problem says alot about that person. One can gently and politely inform and provide tools for the ignorant to research on their own, one can berate and belittle the ignorant, one can with hold knowledge from said ignorant, and one can ridicule those who do not know.I don't have the time to correct every error people make or guide them to an answer (nor is that considered polite), I'm not rude enough to berate them. I will generally just not say anything, and mock them silently in my head (depends on the person and my mood tho...)

I use Free Stuff Day as an excuse to waste money, chug eggnog, and hang out with friends. Oh, and to surf NSG until my eyes bleed...not like I need a particular day for that, though.

I think I would just laugh at them...really, that is just pathetic. The point of the X is the same as etc. vs et cetera. To shorten it. You don't just say "etc." unless you want to sound stupid.

Ah, but humans, by nature, are lazy ;) agreed...

I'll spend my resources fighting ignorance of English before I tackle Greek or Latin. Christ itself was not the Son's name, nor was Jesus...yet people know those terms refer only to him, without knowing the meaning. Why can't they just learn the X or XP or overlay of the two, without having to learn where they come from? Sure, it is still ignorance, but less so.execpt that X-mas is an english bastardization of XPmas.. a greek terminology. so to sit back and call people stupid for fighting X-mas without explaining the history of Xmas doesn't combat the ignorance.

I don't have the time to correct every error people make or guide them to an answer (nor is that considered polite), I'm not rude enough to berate them. I will generally just not say anything, and mock them silently in my head (depends on the person and my mood tho...)correct when it's tactfully acceptable, nudge when possible, but don't ignore nor mock (openly, that is.) :)

agreed...

execpt that X-mas is an english bastardization of XPmas.. a greek terminology. so to sit back and call people stupid for fighting X-mas without explaining the history of Xmas doesn't combat the ignorance.But then we don't need to explain why Jesus is white in almost all European representations, despite that being inaccurate, nor do we explain the cross, despite the fact that he was probably on an olive tree...Heck, we don't even reveal that He was born in the spring and Christmas is actually pagan, or where the Christmas tree actually came from

correct when it's tactfully acceptable, nudge when possible, but don't ignore nor mock (openly, that is.) :)

well, by ignore, I mean those wonderful people like the "You're going to hell" guy and others who approach me on campus or while I'm out...I just don't have the time to correct everyone every time. As for mocking openly...I think I can agree with that one (except for particularly bad days ;) )

I have already provide a source that verifies Christ=XP however, Nervun still disregards it I guess as Fact. Oh well.......:rolleyes:
And we have provided sources that shows X can also stand in for Christ as well. But, golly gosh, it seems you want to believe that people are X-ing out Christ. :rolleyes:

I never said that the XP* symbol ISN'T a representation for Christ, I just said that X ALSO can stand for Him. Just like the Fish stands for him (Fishmas anyone?)

But you're so caught up with the War on Christmas you just want to discount it, don't ya?



*Anyone else feel like we're arguing about Windows XP now?

X-Mas because there are fewer letters.

But then we don't need to explain why Jesus is white in almost all European representations, despite that being inaccurate, nor do we explain the cross, despite the fact that he was probably on an olive tree...Heck, we don't even reveal that He was born in the spring and Christmas is actually pagan, or where the Christmas tree actually came fromthat I blame Hollywood.

and I've seen pictures of a black Jesus, to me, Jesus is who he is, a teacher and provider of comfort. if it comforts some that he be black, or white, or brown, then by all means, let him be whatever to that person. as long as his lessions are learned.

*Anyone else feel like we're arguing about Windows XP now?
what... eveyone knows that Microsoft thinks they are god. :p

actually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas)...

technically it's supposed to be XP = Christ
In ancient Christian art χ and χρ are abbreviations for Christ's name.[citation needed] In many manuscripts of the New Testament and icons, X is an abbreviation for Christos, as is XC (the first and last letters in Greek, using the lunate sigma); compare IC for Jesus in Greek. The Oxford English Dictionary documents the use of this abbreviation back to 1551, 50 years before the first English colonists came to North America and 60 years before the King James Version of the Bible was completed. At the same time, Xian and Xianity were in frequent use as abbreviations of "Christian" and "Christianity"; and nowadays still are sometimes so used, but much less than "Xmas".
So in other words, we're both right in that the symbols can be the XP or X.

It still means that Xmas is a legit form of writing Christmas (Saying it is another thing entirely and I usually make fun of anyone saying ecks-mas).

What it is NOT, however, is an attempt to X out Christ.

what... eveyone knows that Microsoft thinks they are god. :p
That would explain quite a bit about the universe if they are right. ;)

Actually, I don't think the "X" alone represents while in Greek "X" means "chi" but a "P" is supposed to be in the middle of the greeks "chi" which is "X".....as not to confuse anybody here are the links with the proper symbol from the Greeks, they have a nice picture of the correct symbol and it isn't an "X" alone.

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Symbols_of_christ.html

http://www.stlmcfm.org/symbol.htm

The use of the X alone was short hand to make it easier to write...it is a myth that it is removing CHrist from CHristmas.
and if that is the case..how about Navidad, Weihnachten, Χριστούγεννα, or Natale. None of those words contain the word Christ....can you guess which one is the reek word for Christmas?

I don't think I would care, but X-mas is just ugly.

The X stands for Christ.

When Rome was persecuting the Church, Christians used the symbol of a fish as a sign of which house was the house of a Christian. The ancient Greek word for fish is ichthus (also transliterated as ichthys, ikhthus, ikhthys, etc).

The letters are

I - iota - Iesus - Jesus
Ch/Kh - chi (a character similar to x in the Greek alphabet) - Christos - Christ
Th - theta (like an O with a dash in the middle) - Theos - God's
U/Y - upsilon - not sure what the Greek is - Son
S - sigme (kinda like a capital E) - not sure what the Greek is - Savior

So X is just a abbreviation of sorts for Christ.

that I blame Hollywood.Oh yeah?! Well, I blame you! (sorry...this textbook is getting to me. I'll behave. I swear.)

and I've seen pictures of a black Jesus, to me, Jesus is who he is, a teacher and provider of comfort. if it comforts some that he be black, or white, or brown, then by all means, let him be whatever to that person. as long as his lessions are learned.I've seen some...but compared to the number of Aryan Jesus', not many.

Granted, I couldn't care less what he looked like or any of that. It is just interesting that if I held up a picture of a black guy with a halo next to a white guy with a halo, people would pick the white guy as Jesus.

The X stands for Christ.

When Rome was persecuting the Church, Christians used the symbol of a fish as a sign of which house was the house of a Christian. The ancient Greek word for fish is ichthus (also transliterated as ichthys, ikhthus, ikhthys, etc).

The letters are

I - iota - Iesus - Jesus
Ch/Kh - chi (a character similar to x in the Greek alphabet) - Christos - Christ
Th - theta (like an O with a dash in the middle) - Theos - God's
U/Y - upsilon - not sure what the Greek is - Son
S - sigme (kinda like a capital E) - not sure what the Greek is - Savior

So X is just a abbreviation of sorts for Christ.

See? God provides so many fun secrets that can't be understood untill you have a whole new language!

Like Ave Maria...Ave backwards is Eva. Eva is latin for Eve, Maria for Mary. Mary undoes Eve.

Fun with language!

And we have provided sources that shows X can also stand in for Christ as well. But, golly gosh, it seems you want to believe that people are X-ing out Christ. :rolleyes:

I never said that the XP* symbol ISN'T a representation for Christ, I just said that X ALSO can stand for Him. Just like the Fish stands for him (Fishmas anyone?)

But you're so caught up with the War on Christmas you just want to discount it, don't ya?



*Anyone else feel like we're arguing about Windows XP now?

First of all, my ignorance of the Greek terminology has already been corrected. Also, I have did a bit of researching the symbol for Christ is in fact an overlayed "XP" not a single "X" that's just the English's translation but if you want the actual facts and to be correct, the proper way is indeed the overlayed "XP" So I don't know where you're getting that I'm still advocating falsely that Christ is being x'd out. I believe I said that in one of my first posts on this topic but, again, I have since been corrected of my Ignorance of the Greek and have acknowledged it. The correct way again is......

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Symbols_of_christ.html

(look to the upper right of the page and look for the symbol then scroll all the way down and check out all of the Greek symbols for Christ and then tell me where you see "X" at.)

Yes, I do "discount" as it's not the Proper Greek Symbol. The English-speaking people changed it for what they want it mean. As for the Greeks, they stick with the overlayed XP.

The problem is people were trying to be technical due to my originally ignorance of the Greek Symbol for Christ. Well now I'm telling you the proper symbol for Christ is "XP" overlayed. I realize that the English speaking countries threw the "P" away but that still doesn't mean that the English is more correct than the Greek's Symbol that is the overlayed "XP".

http://www.answers.com/topic/christogram-1
The most commonly encountered Christogram in English-speaking countries in modern times is the X (or more accurately, Greek letter Chi) in the abbreviation Xmas (for "Christmas"), which represents the first letter of the word Christ.

See? God provides so many fun secrets that can't be understood untill you have a whole new language!

Like Ave Maria...Ave backwards is Eva. Eva is latin for Eve, Maria for Mary. Mary undoes Eve.

Fun with language!

That's interesting, but I always thought that ave meant laud or praise or some such thing.

That's interesting, but I always thought that ave meant laud or praise or some such thing.

Ave is a pretty standard praise within Latin...but it is interesting that, out of all praises they could give, Ave was the one they chose.

And I could have fun with the apple of Eden too. (yes, I have too much fun with the Bible. Yes, I am putting off work)

The use of the X alone was short hand to make it easier to write...it is a myth that it is removing CHrist from CHristmas.
and if that is the case..how about Navidad, Weihnachten, Χριστούγεννα, or Natale. None of those words contain the word Christ....can you guess which one is the reek word for Christmas?

How many times am I going to have to acknowlege my ignorance of the Greek symbols? :rolleyes: I now understand it isn't meant to "x" out Christ. I learned something new. Thanks NSG. :D

I find it kind of funny to shorthand an "XP" to "X" However, seeing how people here on NSG like to be "Technically Correct" I am leaning to the side of the Greeks as being Correct since it is in Fact a Greek Symbol that the Technically correct symbol is indeed the Greek Symbol of an overlayed "XP". Not the English translation of the Greek Symbol.

What it is NOT, however, is an attempt to X out Christ.I never said it was, I just said that without knowing the Greek alphabet as well as their writing style, it just LOOKS like it's an attempt to "X" out Christ. ;)

That would explain quite a bit about the universe if they are right. ;)*Awaits the great Reboot as God Ctrl Alt Del.* :p

Oh yeah?! Well, I blame you! (sorry...this textbook is getting to me. I'll behave. I swear.)*grabs ruler* Oooooohhhh... you're just lucky I didn't go to a Catholic School. :p

Ave is a pretty standard praise within Latin...but it is interesting that, out of all praises they could give, Ave was the one they chose.

And I could have fun with the apple of Eden too. (yes, I have too much fun with the Bible. Yes, I am putting off work)

I don't think you're having too much fun with it.

What about the apple? Which is really just a fruit, but anyway.

First of all, my ignorance of the Greek terminology has already been corrected. Also, I have did a bit of researching the symbol for Christ is in fact an overlayed "XP" not a single "X" that's just the English's translation but if you want the actual facts and to be correct, the proper way is indeed the overlayed "XP" So I don't know where you're getting that I'm still advocating falsely that Christ is being x'd out. I believe I said that in one of my first posts on this topic but, again, I have since been corrected of my Ignorance of the Greek and have acknowledged it. The correct way again is......

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Symbols_of_christ.html

(look to the upper right of the page and look for the symbol then scroll all the way down and check out all of the Greek symbols for Christ and then tell me where you see "X" at.)

Yes, I do "discount" as it's not the Proper Greek Symbol. The English-speaking people changed it for what they want it mean. As for the Greeks, they stick with the overlayed XP.

The problem is people were trying to be technical due to my originally ignorance of the Greek Symbol for Christ. Well now I'm telling you the proper symbol for Christ is "XP" overlayed. I realize that the English speaking countries threw the "P" away but that still doesn't mean that the English is more correct than the Greek's Symbol that is the overlayed "XP".

http://www.answers.com/topic/christogram-1
The most commonly encountered Christogram in English-speaking countries in modern times is the X (or more accurately, Greek letter Chi) in the abbreviation Xmas (for "Christmas"), which represents the first letter of the word Christ.
The opinion of Hauck that the monogram, in the form in which it appears on the labarum, was well known in Christian society before Constantine would seem, from the circumstances of the case, to be well founded; for otherwise how would the emperor have recognized it as a Christian symbol? Yet, at the same time it must be said that it appears only rarely on pre-Constantinian monuments, and then generally as an abbreviation (compendium scriptur ) rather than as an emblem; as, for instance, in a third century inscription in the Catacomb of St. Priscilla (see Greek words 5 & Monogram a).
That's a Monogram, the Greeks (and Romans) had been using Chi before hand.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10488a.htm

You want to keep going? I'm not saying that Chi Rho is NOT a symbol, but there's many symbols and many abrviations. Heck, Latin tradition uses something very different usually as your own web page mentions.

Zimas

*nods*

*grabs ruler* Oooooohhhh... you're just lucky I didn't go to a Catholic School. :pme neither.

I don't think you're having too much fun with it.

What about the apple? Which is really just a fruit, but anyway.

It has to be an apple, despite apples not growing in the middle east, and therefore not having a referent for the authors (it was probably a pomegranate, but I digress [more than usual]).

But anyway, the word for "bad" in latin is manza. The word for apple is...you guessed it...manza.

Imagine a bunch of English guys sitting around saying "I need a fruit that means "Pineapple"". that was basically what happened.

I call it Yule.

I thought about explaining why but it would only upset a number of poeple :) (no I'm not wiccan) see the religious breakdown thread for my post if you're _that_ interested.

That's a Monogram, the Greeks (and Romans) had been using Chi before hand.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10488a.htm

You want to keep going? I'm not saying that Chi Rho is NOT a symbol, but there's many symbols and many abrviations. Heck, Latin tradition uses something very different usually as your own web page mentions.

Okay, I concede, Have a Merry Christmas. ;)

Peace to the World.

I use both...the x is from his greek name Khristos The Kh is shown as the letter X in greek.

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?

I prefer seeing it written "S-a-t-u-r-n-a-l-i-a", myself. What do you think?

I prefer seeing it written "S-a-t-u-r-n-a-l-i-a", myself. What do you think?

much too long. I prefer Y-u-l-e. Or Jul.

This is a really interesting topic. As someone else also said, X is Greek letter "chi," an abbreviation for Christ. These fanatical Christians who have nothing better to do but bitch about stuff don't bother to do their research into these things. Also, I'm not partial to Christmas or Xmas, whichever one I happen to write. I'm not a Christian, so I'm not big on the whole "celebrating the birth of Christ" thing (despite the fact that based on the setting and details in the Bible, Christ wasn't born anywhere near the month of December). Also, it's ironic that Christians are so gung-ho about this holiday considering that the only thing Christian about this ridiculously overrated holiday is the name itself. Just about everything else is based on pagan traditions: the yule log, ol' Santa Clause, holly, even the damn tree! Bet they don't teach you that in Sunday School.

me neither.



But anyway, the word for "bad" in latin is manza. The word for apple is...you guessed it...manza.

Imagine a bunch of English guys sitting around saying "I need a fruit that means "Pineapple"". that was basically what happened.

It is true that "bad" and "apple" share the same word, but it's not manza, it's "malum." Not really a major mistake, but I take Latin, so it just happened to catch my eye. Incidentally (although the following points are a bit overtechnical), when just talking about the nominative case, "apple" is "pomum," and "bad" is "malus." Also, we could go into the whole thing with "apple" being a noun and "bad" being an adjective, and then the genders as well...but I hate talking about the technicalities of English. I prefer the literature parts of those classes. Anyone up for Paradise Lost?

I always use Christmas because that's simply what it's called, I am not a christian but I would never say 'X-Mas' because it sounds like your trying to make some stupid political point in the holidays. Shame.

Quite Agree.

And besides, have you ever said X-mas out loud? It's like saying you want it virgin in a bar full of drunks.

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?

I personally think that anything I say that will get me free things, such as expensive gifts, is cool. And both "xmas" and "Christmas" get me those gifts.

I personally think that anything I say that will get me free things, such as expensive gifts, is cool. And both "xmas" and "Christmas" get me those gifts.

I prefer the term Yule for no reason at all.

I use xmas because I am to lazy to type out the whole word, and have no belief hang-ups to prevent me from doing so.

Happy solstice everyone!

It is true that "bad" and "apple" share the same word, but it's not manza, it's "malum." Not really a major mistake, but I take Latin, so it just happened to catch my eye. Incidentally (although the following points are a bit overtechnical), when just talking about the nominative case, "apple" is "pomum," and "bad" is "malus." Also, we could go into the whole thing with "apple" being a noun and "bad" being an adjective, and then the genders as well...but I hate talking about the technicalities of English. I prefer the literature parts of those classes. Anyone up for Paradise Lost?

Really? Well, I have some words for a certain person now...


as for paradise lost, don't get me started.

much too long. I prefer Y-u-l-e. Or Jul.

Ditto.

The X stands for Christ.

When Rome was persecuting the Church, Christians used the symbol of a fish as a sign of which house was the house of a Christian. The ancient Greek word for fish is ichthus (also transliterated as ichthys, ikhthus, ikhthys, etc).

The letters are

I - iota - Iesus - Jesus
Ch/Kh - chi (a character similar to x in the Greek alphabet) - Christos - Christ
Th - theta (like an O with a dash in the middle) - Theos - God's
U/Y - upsilon - not sure what the Greek is - Son
S - sigme (kinda like a capital E) - not sure what the Greek is - Savior

So X is just a abbreviation of sorts for Christ.

Pretty close:

ICHTHUS = Iesus (Jesus) Christos (Christ) Theou (God's) Uios ([the] Son) Soter (Savior).

Oh, and sigma is just the Greek letter S. The capital looks sort of like an E, the lower case like a regular s with a short lower tail (at the end of words) or like a c where the lower part comes up and joins the body.

I use Xmas because it's quick and easy, plus I'm not a Christian, so I really could care less about celebrating the birth of Christ during this time.


How much less could you care?

How much less could you care?

Xmas, huh baaahh humbug is what I say.:mad:

Giftmas or $mas - more accurate descriptive terms.

Sometimes I refer to it as the solstice holiday or Yule or Mithras Day but, usually I just call it the winter holiday.

Snowflake Day! Someone out there must watch Clone High.

crimbo!

Natal

Not everywhere speaks English you know.

Yep. It's definitely "Noël". :)

In English, "Christmas". That's what it is, and I see no reason to write it differently. (I'm an atheist, by the way.)

lucky you... I've heard "echs mas" so many times... :rolleyes:

To be honest, I don't think that's a problem at all.

Yes.

They mean the same thing, one way or another. I'd say Christmas is more correct and proper, so I wouldn't exactly put Xmas on a formal invitation or anything, but when I'm lazy, it's easier to type. =)

(Poll Coming Soon to a Forum near You)

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?Dang. I always thought the XMAS was to save space. At least that's why I thought they always used in Tom and Jerry or other cartoons.

Dang. I always thought the XMAS was to save space. At least that's why I thought they always used in Tom and Jerry or other cartoons.

And in medieval manuscripts and in ads in the Ladies Home Journal.

And in medieval manuscripts and in ads in the Ladies Home Journal.The evil manipulations of the athiest conspiracy reach back that far? :eek:

The evil manipulations of the athiest conspiracy reach back that far? :eek:

Yep. There was an image of the LHJ ad in the Wiki article you get to by searching for "xmas".

I wrote the following letter to the editor of the Everett (WA, USA) Herald in December of 2004 after some well-meaning nitwit suggested that if we abbreviate Christmas at all, we should call it "Cmas". Read on, if you wish:

I understand and fully agree with the point that Christmas has been made a hollow capitalistic shell of its former intent. The ads for consumer competition start as early as mid-October, and it seems the entire economy depends for its very survival on each of us placing a price tag on love. However, just as bad as corporate and politically correct zealotry almost ensuring we forget about Christ are those religious zealots who get their facts wrong.

I'm referring to Tamara Sodhurquist's letter printed in Christmas Day's Herald ("Isn't Jesus the reason for the season?" Dec. 25th). Ms. Sodhurquist claims that the spelling of Christmas as Xmas is taking Christ out of Christmas and, by the way, is partially responsible for nativity scene thieves and the degeneration of our world in general. There are enough fallacies in this idea to fill all the stockings of the world, so I'll just say she's entitled to her opinion about social entropy and leave it at that. But one glaring fact might put this whole petty notion to rest for good (and I should know better than to express such optimism, but it’s Christmas).

X as a substitute for the name of Christ comes from Greek, where the first letter of Christ is "chi." This is represented in Greek by a character that eventually became our letter X (and is pronounced like you're clearing your throat). People pressed for time or space or ink in early Christianity simply used the first letter of his name as a shortcut. So in reality, Ms. Sodhurquist's suggestion that we all use "Cmas" instead of "Xmas" is inaccurate at least, and to the more religiously sensitive, possibly even blasphemous. The Greeks had no letter C. Christ couldn't have spelled his own name with a C. Advertising people did not invent Xmas, the Greeks, in whose language the epistles and most of the original Bibles were written, did. On top of the facts, the X kinda looks like cross, doesn't it? That's a pretty good reminder of just who that abbreviation represents, isn't it?

I sympathize with all those of faith who are disturbed at the plight of society, and, as a teacher, I occasionally get to witness it first hand. But worse than the problem is any kind of misguided pettiness associated with an attempted solution. This energy needs to be directed at solutions that matter, at people and ideas with a potential to help. So keep praying, keep believing, and keep the faith, but remember, X marks the spot...C what I mean?

In addition, an entire dialogue in posts on this subject to the Wordwizard website can be found here. (http://www.wordwizard.com/ch_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8715)

Finally, how about we all express our preferences for the abbreviation or non-abbreviation of the name of a holiday without saying things like "everyone SHOULD" say it this way, or "it's wrong" to spell it THAT way. For fuck's sake, people, we're talking about the birth of a guy who got nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if we weren't such assholes to one another all the time (to paraphrase Douglas Adams)...why then must some of us choose to be assholes about something so stupid?

If you like Xmas, fine. If you want to write it that way and still say it "Christmas", why should anyone else care? If you want to abbreviate it with four Ms and a silent Q and pronounce it "throatwarbler mangrove", why should anyone else get their knickers in a twist? If it offends you to see or hear "Xmas" (with or without the hyphen), well I'm sorry, but you haven't GOT the right to the absence of offense -- at least not yet. With so many legitimate reasons to be offended, why choose something so infinitesimally trivial to beat your chest (or your 700 Club membership booklet) about?

M. Jubal
Giving joust to the windmills since 1979.

Finally, how about we all express our preferences for the abbreviation or non-abbreviation of the name of a holiday without saying things like "everyone SHOULD" say it this way, or "it's wrong" to spell it THAT way. For fuck's sake, people, we're talking about the birth of a guy who got nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if we weren't such assholes to one another all the time (to paraphrase Douglas Adams)...why then must some of us choose to be assholes about something so stupid?

If you like Xmas, fine. If you want to write it that way and still say it "Christmas", why should anyone else care? If you want to abbreviate it with four Ms and a silent Q and pronounce it "throatwarbler mangrove", why should anyone else get their knickers in a twist? If it offends you to see or hear "Xmas" (with or without the hyphen), well I'm sorry, but you haven't GOT the right to the absence of offense -- at least not yet. With so many legitimate reasons to be offended, why choose something so infinitesimally trivial to beat your chest (or your 700 Club membership booklet) about?

M. Jubal
Giving joust to the windmills since 1979.

Yeah, it does seem a pointless debate, doesn't it, since a little easily done research will show that both "Christmas" and "Xmas" are acceptable? But hey, we got to explore the origins of the terms and Greek pronunciation and such. Time well spent.

I usually spell it "ecksmas".

Xmas, it has nothing to do with Christ anymore, if it ever has.

Christmas, because thats what it is.

Besides even if you go with flawed far left pc logic, Christmas may offend some muslims, but i'm sure xmas offends way more Christians. Wait a second christians don't count:rolleyes:

Where's the "Myrth" section?

I myself use both and don't particularly care too much.

Xmas, it has nothing to do with Christ anymore, if it ever has.

As Im sure has already been pointed out: X is the greek character for christ(or crucifix), and Xmas came from that origin not as a way to remove the word christ- just a way to shorten it. It still retains the same meaning.

Christmas, because thats what it is.

Besides even if you go with flawed far left pc logic, Christmas may offend some muslims, but i'm sure xmas offends way more Christians. Wait a second christians don't count:rolleyes:

As been pointed out that X is the greek letter for Christ, Nice try on blaming it on "far left pc logic" rather then what it actually is, tradition almost as old as the story itself.

As been pointed out that X is the greek letter for Christ, Nice try on blaming it on "far left pc logic" rather then what it actually is, tradition almost as old as the story itself.

That may be what it was originally used for, but it doesn't take a professor at oxford to work out why it is really used now.

That may be what it was originally used for, but it doesn't take a professor at oxford to work out why it is really used now.
Because it is shorter to write while maintaining the same meaning? Thats why I use it to label stuff

Because it is shorter to write while maintaining the same meaning? Thats why I use it to label stuff

I meant in companies, advertising, shops, tv etc... Of course I don't care if people say it personally, I do a lot.

I meant in companies, advertising, shops, tv etc... Of course I don't care if people say it personally, I do a lot.

I have yet to see any real life advertising where they actually write or say "Xmass" at least in real life

Online it usually appears right next to "Christmas"
Which makes sense because of how search engines classify things ...

I don't know at least to me it don't see any obvious signs of your "far left" bias

I hate both.

I hate both.

Bah Humbug!:p

Bah Humbug!:p

No, really, I can't stand the entire season. National Cheesecake Day's better, thank you.

Nobody even says Christ in Christmas properly, it's just pronounced as Kris-mas.

Yeah, it does seem a pointless debate, doesn't it, since a little easily done research will show that both "Christmas" and "Xmas" are acceptable? But hey, we got to explore the origins of the terms and Greek pronunciation and such. Time well spent.

Agreed. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing -- but only to ignorance.

Yule, but Xmas when addressing the public.

First rule of magic - "Naming calls." I have no desire to invoke the "C" person or any members of his fan club. Spelling out the name might do that.

Yule, but Xmas when addressing the public.

First rule of magic - "Naming calls." I have no desire to invoke the "C" person or any members of his fan club. Spelling out the name might do that.
ok, so you don't actually say "Echs-Mas" then.


Good. ;)

ok, so you don't actually say "Echs-Mas" then.


Good. ;)

"Good"?!? Judge not, lest ye be judged. What kind of smug horseshit is "good" in that context? If I wish to say "ex-muss", then I will, and I will give less than a shit about whether or not YOU think it's "good".

ok, so you don't actually say "Echs-Mas" then.

Good. ;)

No, I DO say "Echs-Mas."

Naming calls, remember?

"Good"?!? Judge not, lest ye be judged. What kind of smug horseshit is "good" in that context? If I wish to say "ex-muss", then I will, and I will give less than a shit about whether or not YOU think it's "good".IF you read my earlier posts, I did state that I had a peeve about people actually saying "Echs-mas" and others saying they never heard anyone saying that, but saying they would laugh and riducule people who did. so go ahead. say "Echs-mas" but don't be surpised at some of their responses. ;)

the "Good" was me being relieved that he didn't, but he does.

No, I DO say "Echs-Mas."

Naming calls, remember?Err... well... ok... but if we should meet, I preferre "Happy Holidays" to "Echs Mas" ;)

I understand that the fact of "X" dates back to the Greeks but it isn't pronounced like our English "ex". So, to write it as "Xmas", is very justifiable but to pronounce it in the way of the English "eXmas" wouldn't be correct and it would be taking away the reasons of the Greek use.

I feel that if you do say it as English "eXmas" you are really x'ing it out. To write as "Xmas" is fine but for those who use Greek as a reason should also pronounce it in the way of the Greeks and not English.....

This is the same sound as "ch" in "Bach", which does not sound like "ch" in "chair". The same sound occurs in the Scottish "Loch", as in "Loch Lomond", or the German "ach!".


http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/alphabet.html

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to ALL! :)

(Poll Coming Soon to a Forum near You)

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?

I don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, but he was one of the greatest prophts to have ever lived and a sinless holy man, but really I think the 'Christmas or Xmas' thing is too trivial to matter one way or the other.

Yule, but Xmas when addressing the public.

First rule of magic - "Naming calls." I have no desire to invoke the "C" person or any members of his fan club. Spelling out the name might do that.

I'd like to introduce you all to my fiancé...

(Poll Coming Soon to a Forum near You)

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?
I prefer using, and seeing used, whole words.

That may be what it was originally used for, but it doesn't take a professor at oxford to work out why it is really used now.
And why is it REALLY used now, hmmmmm?

Persecution complex much?

I prefer using, and seeing used, whole words.

o rly?


I'm sorry, I had to do it.

(Poll Coming Soon to a Forum near You)

What is your preference in use when writing or seeing "Christmas"?

I personally like it to be written "Christmas" I do believe in God and it makes me sad to see people x out "Christ". What do you think?

People aren't Xing out Christ. In Greek his initials start with an X. It is an age old abbreviation for Christ. You know, like saying Christ instead of Jesus Christ.

If you go look for discussions of religious philosophy online you will often see Christians refered to as Xians for the same reason.

People aren't Xing out Christ. In Greek his initials start with an X. It is an age old abbreviation for Christ. You know, like saying Christ instead of Jesus Christ.


Or Jesus Christ instead of Jesus the Christ.

People aren't Xing out Christ. In Greek his initials start with an X. It is an age old abbreviation for Christ. You know, like saying Christ instead of Jesus Christ.

If you go look for discussions of religious philosophy online you will often see Christians refered to as Xians for the same reason.

Please see my OP, I just edited it. :)

I prefer using, and seeing used, whole words.

I see. So when you address an evnelope, you never use "MA" instead of Massachusetts, for example?

Too easy.

IF you read my earlier posts, I did state that I had a peeve about people actually saying "Echs-mas" and others saying they never heard anyone saying that, but saying they would laugh and riducule people who did. so go ahead. say "Echs-mas" but don't be surpised at some of their responses. ;)

the "Good" was me being relieved that he didn't, but he does.

Err... well... ok... but if we should meet, I preferre "Happy Holidays" to "Echs Mas" ;)

Again, who are you to tell others how they should speak? Someone saying "Ex-muss" to you without knowing it's a pet peeve of yours (as if we should ALL know what twists your shorts) is not harming you in any way. The arrogance!

I understand that the fact of "X" dates back to the Greeks but it isn't pronounced like our English "ex". So, to write it as "Xmas", is very justifiable but to pronounce it in the way of the English "eXmas" wouldn't be correct and it would be taking away the reasons of the Greek use.

I feel that if you do say it as English "eXmas" you are really x'ing it out. To write as "Xmas" is fine but for those who use Greek as a reason should also pronounce it in the way of the Greeks and not English.....

This is the same sound as "ch" in "Bach", which does not sound like "ch" in "chair". The same sound occurs in the Scottish "Loch", as in "Loch Lomond", or the German "ach!".


http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/alphabet.html

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to ALL! :)

Thing is, I've never heard anyone actually say "Ex-muss" in conversation before. If the people I know who are petty enough to want to piss off Christians want to get under their skin, they'll call it "Yule" or "Solstice".

Again, who are you to tell others how they should speak? Someone saying "Ex-muss" to you without knowing it's a pet peeve of yours (as if we should ALL know what twists your shorts) is not harming you in any way. The arrogance!

Everybody practically has some sort of pet peeve. I don't believe it has anything to do with arrogance. It's just an opinion. I don't like to hear it pronounced "echs-mas" either. That's one of my Freedoms, I enjoy. (having my own opinions and thoughts) Anyways, for those who's defence is the Greek lettering system then they ought to pronounce it by the Greek's standards and not "englishlize" it. NOTE: Just my personal Opinion. :D

Thing is, I've never heard anyone actually say "Ex-muss" in conversation before. If the people I know who are petty enough to want to piss off Christians want to get under their skin, they'll call it "Yule" or "Solstice".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

Everybody practically has some sort of pet peeve. I don't believe it has anything to do with arrogance. It's just an opinion. I don't like to hear it pronounced "echs-mas" either. That's one of my Freedoms, I enjoy. (having my own opinions and thoughts) Anyways, for those who's defence is the Greek lettering system then they ought to pronounce it by the Greek's standards and not "englishlize" it. NOTE: Just my personal Opinion. :D

So, you'd be okay with "khee-mas"? Noted.

Of course it has something to do with arrogance -- he said "if we should meet, I prefer..." as if A) anyone knows what he looks like and B) we should have a special greeting just for him when we meet him. MY freedom to wish someone a Merry Christmas in any way I wish is just as valid as his to prefer what he wants to hear. The difference is, I'm saying what I've always said, and he's being incredibly hypersensitive.

I'll stick to "Merry Whatever." It seems to offend the least number of people.

Thing is, I've never heard anyone actually say "Ex-muss" in conversation before. If the people I know who are petty enough to want to piss off Christians want to get under their skin, they'll call it "Yule" or "Solstice".

I prefer "Day that Mary's Vagina Supposedly Vomited Out a Blood-Soaked, Wailing Infant".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

The same Wikipedia article that's already been posted a dozen times? That's all you've got? Look, son, I KNOW the origin of Xmas. I choose, like it's any of your concern, to say Christmas when it suits me and other things when I'm in other moods. Neither you nor anyone else has a right to not be offended. If I don't know you and I greet you in my customary manner and it offends you, please tell me, and I'll be pleased to alter my greeting whenever I see you again -- and again is the key word. I'm not gonna walk on eggshells for people I haven't even met, nor should anyone.

I prefer "Day that Mary's Vagina Supposedly Vomited Out a Blood-Soaked, Wailing Infant".

So, would you be upset by the abbreviation to DMVSVOBWI, pronounced "dim-vis-VOB-wee"?

Thanks! I needed the chuckle!

The same Wikipedia article that's already been posted a dozen times? That's all you've got? Look, son, I KNOW the origin of Xmas. I choose, like it's any of your concern, to say Christmas when it suits me and other things when I'm in other moods. Neither you nor anyone else has a right to not be offended. If I don't know you and I greet you in my customary manner and it offends you, please tell me, and I'll be pleased to alter my greeting whenever I see you again -- and again is the key word. I'm not gonna walk on eggshells for people I haven't even met, nor should anyone.

Just so you know I only linked to Wikipedia because towards the beginning it mentions how some people actually say it as "echsmas" That's the only reason I posted the link. Since you said you actually never heard anybody say it like that.

For the rest of your post I absolutely agree with you. If somebody is offended by me wishing them a "Merry Christmas" well, that's there problem not mine. If they don't like it tough. I always say "Merry Christmas" :)

Again, who are you to tell others how they should speak? Someone saying "Ex-muss" to you without knowing it's a pet peeve of yours (as if we should ALL know what twists your shorts) is not harming you in any way. The arrogance!

I suggest you remove the stick you got impailed somewhere. I did TELL him to do anything. I mearly informed him what I preferred. just like some people say they don't eat meat, they are NOT TELLING ANYONE NOT TO EAT MEAT.

please Intangelon, I know you so desperatly want to win at least one debate, but please be a little more discerning. :rolleyes:

So, you'd be okay with "khee-mas"? Noted.

Of course it has something to do with arrogance -- he said "if we should meet, I prefer..." as if A) anyone knows what he looks like and B) we should have a special greeting just for him when we meet him. MY freedom to wish someone a Merry Christmas in any way I wish is just as valid as his to prefer what he wants to hear. The difference is, I'm saying what I've always said, and he's being incredibly hypersensitive.

I'll stick to "Merry Whatever." It seems to offend the least number of people.point A)since no one knows who I am, and I don't know anyone out there, then how can they take my "if we should meet, I prefer..." comment as anything remotely as me telling them what to say?

B) did I say "YOU MUST SAY..." ? no I didn't thus I am not telling anyone to do anything they don't want to. so please, look in the mirror when you talk of arrogance.

as for you never hearing anyone say "Echs-Mas", I'm so glad that you are so well travelled that you spoke to every single person in the world to wish them Happy Holidays. or is that YOUR arrogance speaking?