NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

I agree. Idealy a child needs a mother and a father.

Did he back that up in some way?

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

It's nice to have two parents (two mothers will do, two fathers, or a mother and father). It's even nicer to have a large extended cross generational family living together and raising children if you are all well-adjusted and not alcoholic abusive meth-smoking fuckups.

The more the better, IMHO. But it doesn't have to be Ozzie and Harriet.

I only had the requisite two parents, but my daughter has, in some ways had four (for the last six years at least). My ex and I divorced 12 years ago, and for the last six have been in solid, monogamous relationships. My daughter has lived with both of us in that period, so in some ways, she's had one dad and three moms. She seems to be doing okay with it.

It's good to have both a father and mother, but a kid can get along ok with just a mom or just a dad so long as the parent has enough time to devote to the kid.

Did he back that up in some way?

She mentioned studies, but I don't know the specific ones. The other person said the studies she was refering to were defunct.

*shrugs*

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

That lady is an idiotic ****.

A child doesn't need both parents. Several of my friends came from single-parent homes and they're getting along in the world just fine. If anything, it's taught them to be more independent.

It's nice to have two parents (two mothers will do, two fathers, or a mother and father). It's even nicer to have a large extended cross generational family living together and raising children if you are all well-adjusted and not alcoholic abusive meth-smoking fuckups.

The more the better, IMHO. But it doesn't have to be Ozzie and Harriet.I agree. The larger the social net around the child the better. It's a lot more important that there are well adjusted people around the child than that the he/she has a the family constellation of one mom and one dad.

two working lesbian mothers > alcoholic mom & dad

A child doesn't need both parents. Several of my friends came from single-parent homes and they're getting along in the world just fine. If anything, it's taught them to be more independent.

Which is exactly what became of me. When my father was home, I was usually only an hour or so away from bedtime -- I rarely saw him. When the divorce happened, I was 12 and fully capable of keeping myself alive and amused until Mom came home from work at about 6pm each night. I was doing my own laundry, washing dishes and cleaning the house solo by then, too. Living with just Mom as a so-called "latchkey" kid did wonders for my independence and life skill-set. I've been on dates and had relationships with women (since being on my own at 21), and each one has been amazed that my flat was clean (even the bathroom), my dishes were done without using the dishwasher, and that my laundry wasn't scattered all over the floor.

Is single parentage ideal for every situation? Of course not. But to claim that it is NEVER okay and NEVER results in a functional, healthy child is just plain ludicrous. The woman who said that needs to be pimp-slapped.

Generally, single parent homes have more problems than two-parent homes, and that is especially problematic when it's a single mother. So, I would say yes, a child does generally need a father in these cases.

Sometimes, that's not the case. But it is the case often enough to convince me that a child does generally need a father.

That lady is an idiotic ****. Not exactly the words I would have chosen, but seconded nonetheless.

That lady is an idiotic ****.

I agree, though I would probably have phrased it more... diplomatically? ;)

She mentioned studies, but I don't know the specific ones. The other person said the studies she was refering to were defunct.

*shrugs*

Those studies done by people who believe gays are a pox on society.

Generally, single parent homes have more problems than two-parent homes, and that is especially problematic when it's a single mother. So, I would say yes, a child does generally need a father in these cases.

Sometimes, that's not the case. But it is the case often enough to convince me that a child does generally need a father.

But why a father? Why not just another adult, committed to a loving, supportive relationship?

Most od my friends only had one parent, and in most situations they were fine, its not the only having one parent thats the problem i think, its the bit in the middle of going from two to one thats hard on kids.
There were some cases in my friends where it wasnt good to have jsut one parent, one of them was dragged all over the world by her mum for work and ended up and evil scheme nutcase who was totally spoilt, and one of them cries almost ever time she gets drunk as she couldnt cope with having to look after her little sister and brother because her dad was spending all his time caring for her mum as she died.

Just think tho, there is some things that are worse than having single parent families, either zero parent families or, as in the case of another friend, a family with no father (cancer during her A level exams) and an alcoholic mother, and having to live with her aunt and look after her little sister.

But why a father? Why not just another adult, committed to a loving, supportive relationship?

Like I said, any set of adults who aren't crack fiends and child molesters and oxycontin addicts who beat the kids and starve them...

As long as it's "family". That can be one parent, or it can be a group of adults who are not all necessarily related.

Generally, single parent homes have more problems than two-parent homes, and that is especially problematic when it's a single mother. So, I would say yes, a child does generally need a father in these cases.

Sometimes, that's not the case. But it is the case often enough to convince me that a child does generally need a father.
Here's the real question: does it have to be two people of the opposite sex? Or is it that two are better than one, everything else being equal? Obviously, one stable parent is better than two unstable ones.

I don't think its true at all. I grew up with both my parents, although i wasn't able to see my dad that much. As a result, I was raised mostly by my mom, but I have grown in to what I like to think as a respectful, good young lad. :)

Not exactly the words I would have chosen, but seconded nonetheless.

I agree, though I would probably have phrased it more... diplomatically? ;)

Well, sometimes one needs to throw caution three sheets to the wind (or whatever the idiom is) and call it like it is.

Like I said, any set of adults who aren't crack fiends and child molesters and oxycontin addicts who beat the kids and starve them...

As long as it's "family". That can be one parent, or it can be a group of adults who are not all necessarily related.

I think most people are using two parents as a set of adults who look after you, not nessisarily the biological mother and father.

Here's the real question: does it have to be two people of the opposite sex? Or is it that two are better than one, everything else being equal? Obviously, one stable parent is better than two unstable ones.

I find it funny how some people who don't want a kid to have "two moms" have no problem with the kid living with two great-aunts who act as parents.

No, the gender doesn't enter into it. Stability, and the perception of a "home" and a "family" appear to be important - but you can have a family with one kid and one parent.

I find it funny how some people who don't want a kid to have "two moms" have no problem with the kid living with two great-aunts who act as parents.

No, the gender doesn't enter into it. Stability, and the perception of a "home" and a "family" appear to be important - but you can have a family with one kid and one parent.

I think it might be better with two parent tho rather than one, as it gives you two opinions on a matter because, although they one never admit it, sometimes a parent can be being completely unreasonable.
Having two of them just helps to iron out each individual ones oddities usually.

I'm personally of the opinion that we should administer "parenting tests" to all US citizens at the end of high school to determine which ones should be parents and which ones shouldn't. (The tests would not ask the question directly, but rather go into the psychology necessary to raise a child.) Those who pass their tests, it will go on their records and they will be allowed to have kids. Those who do not will be granted a free vasectomy. The problem of abusive parents, if not exactly solved, will at least become much less prevalent. When that happens, pretty much anyone who has passed their tests and wants to have kids can with no real problems for the kids growing up, whereas those whose kids would have real problems would not be reproducing in the first place (ideally).

If it works in the USA, we can implement it in other countries too. Probably put an end to overpopulation as well.

But why a father? Why not just another adult, committed to a loving, supportive relationship?

I use "father" to mean a second parent. The only reason I'm edgy about allowing gay adoption is because there are a lot of bigots out there that would make those kids' lives hell just because their parents are LGBTQ.

I dont think people would have a problem with gay parents if they were told at a young age that it was perfectly normal. There was a kid in my brownie pack that brought two mums to her enrolement, so i always thought it was perfectly normal.

we can all imagine ideal circumstances that a child should be born into.

so what? no family meets the ideal. we all fall well short of what we might consider perfect. does that mean we shouldnt have children?

I use "father" to mean a second parent. The only reason I'm edgy about allowing gay adoption is because there are a lot of bigots out there that would make those kids' lives hell just because their parents are LGBTQ.In my experience, the best way to combat bigotry is to shove it in their faces. The bigots I grew up around were tough talkers until the subject of their bigotry was living next door, and then they realized their ignorance. It didn't happen every time, but it happened a lot.

Yes. I think a child needs both parents. I lived until eighth grade with both my parents, and then my father died. I think a lot was gained by having him present during that time in my life that I couldn't have gained without him. Having a father is the natural way of things, so obviously there is a need for one.

I find it funny how some people who don't want a kid to have "two moms" have no problem with the kid living with two great-aunts who act as parents.

No, the gender doesn't enter into it. Stability, and the perception of a "home" and a "family" appear to be important - but you can have a family with one kid and one parent.
Like I said, I think my daughter has been better off for the three moms and one dad she's had.

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?


I don't agree with that equation there. A child could turn out OK.

But I do think having a father, or reliably father-figure, is optimal.

In my experience, the best way to combat bigotry is to shove it in their faces. The bigots I grew up around were tough talkers until the subject of their bigotry was living next door, and then they realized their ignorance. It didn't happen every time, but it happened a lot.

Good point; that's usually the way to do it, but still worries me, though. I think we need to keep putting pressure on the government to expand the rights of gay and lesbian couples, because keeping it in the public eye is the only way to change things.

It's not the gender or amount of parents that counts for anything it is the way that they are caring for the child and although the life of a child with non-standard parents may be a bit harder, for instance at young ages when your kid wants to know where their dad is, in general I’d say one is the same as the other.

That won't help. Even if the government allows them the same rights as straight people, there will still be bigots; the state of mind of a nation doesn't change just because a hundred guys in suits said so, at least not in America. The best way is to convert them one at a time, preferably by having gay sex with them until they learn to enjoy it.







... Well, maybe not that one. But shoving it in their faces should be fine, as Nazz suggested. They'll eventually learn to live with it, and the third-generation ex-bigots will be as tolerant as everyone else.

That won't help. Even if the government allows them the same rights as straight people, there will still be bigots; the state of mind of a nation doesn't change just because a hundred guys in suits said so, at least not in America. The best way is to convert them one at a time, preferably by having gay sex with them until they learn to enjoy it.

... Well, maybe not that one. But shoving it in their faces should be fine, as Nazz suggested. They'll eventually learn to live with it, and the third-generation ex-bigots will be as tolerant as everyone else.
Umm. Yeah.

That worked so well for Michael Richards...

A stable, two-parent family is ideal.

I would say a stable, two-gay-parent family is more ideal than an unstable heterosexual family though.

One important thing to remember is that, while the child may not have a father, it has two parents. It just so happens that they are both mothers. So long as they care for it well, it's not going to need a father.

As far as the original question goes, I know lots of people who were raised without fathers, and they are all wonderful people who would never in a million years turn to drugs or alchohol. However, I also know a person who grew up with a very irresponsable father (who his mother just now finally divorced), and it is this person who I worry about. The last time I saw him, he was no longer the happy and friendly peron I once knew, but rather a slightly paranoid, highly distrustful, and incredibly cynical person with a host of fears and phobias that he never used to have. He only, about two weeks or so, I guess, got rid of the destructive father, and his mother has already found some other man she wants to live with. He is young and highly impressionable, and I worry about him whenever I think of him.

I have never seen research that says a single parent is better than two parents and there is much research to show that it is worse. That of course is average and there will be exceptions. Also, a single parent is better than no parent. Some research does show that it is better if the father dies than is divorced. Children can accept death better than abandonment.

I saw the same thing last night, as well! It had me off the wall screaming and ranting right along with my mother. :p

No, it is not necessary for a child to have a mother and a father. She was also a bitch for suggesting that they'll be more prone to dropout of school and do drugs. That's bull.

It takes two parents to raise a child and it takes one to raise a criminal.

I have never seen research that says a single parent is better than two parents and there is much research to show that it is worse. That of course is average and there will be exceptions. Also, a single parent is better than no parent. Some research does show that it is better if the father dies than is divorced. Children can accept death better than abandonment.

The research is out there that single parent homes have more messed up kids than kids in two parent homes. If a kid feels abandonned he feels pretty worthless. Poor self esteem leads to not really caring about yourself or your future and thus destructive behavior.

If two parents do not want to share the commitment together forever they should abort or adopt. Otherwise they are child abusers by bringing a child into the world that they cannot take care of properly. I hate single parents (at least the one that walked away).

I know there are exceptions I am not retarded.

It takes two parents to raise a child and it takes one to raise a criminal.

Absolutely -- if the father of a dysfunctional family is a criminal, chances are, the son or daughter will be, too. How very insightful of you.:rolleyes:

Though I grew up with two parents, I regard my father responsible for my childhood and teaching me the things needed in life.

It takes two parents to raise a child and it takes one to raise a criminal.

I'm the living proof that strikes this "thought" null and void.
I was raised by my father.
Now I work for the Department of Justice.
'Nuff said.

It takes two parents to raise a child and it takes one to raise a criminal.

It often takes neglect and/or abuse to raise "a criminal." You can get these from either family structure.

There are plenty of single-parent households with loving, normal children.

Another parent is helpful, especially financially, but it's not the only way to raise a child.

I use "father" to mean a second parent. The only reason I'm edgy about allowing gay adoption is because there are a lot of bigots out there that would make those kids' lives hell just because their parents are LGBTQ.

LGBTQ? What's Q? You guys are just adding on random letters now, aren't you?

Absolutely -- if the father of a dysfunctional family is a criminal, chances are, the son or daughter will be, too. How very insightful of you.:rolleyes:

Thanks. I know that so many people think that single parenting is a choice as opposed to child abuse. But you know what it isnt just the single nutcase dad who is responsible it is the woman too. What woman would not abort a child of a nutcase or even sleep with one in the first place? Assuming he changed over time into a whacko, she should fight more for custody instead of letting junior grow up with Mr. Nutjob.

It often takes neglect and/or abuse to raise "a criminal." You can get these from either family structure.

Duh. But you get it more in the single families.

no i don't. and stop segregating polls.

I'm the living proof that strikes this "thought" null and void.
I was raised by my father.
Now I work for the Department of Justice.
'Nuff said.

Way to overgeneralize! We all know there are exceptions. The question is not whether good people can come from bad families or single parent homes, the question is which system produces the most screw ups.

I had two parents and a huge extended family and they all sucked a big one.

I don't know what I think about the statement in general that kids "need a father" because I don't have much real life experience in it. I do know that kids need consistent parents and my kids seem to get a more consistent level of parenting than most of the kids I see with single parents because when I get tired hubby steps up to the plate.

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?


I disagree. Ideally, the child needs two PARENTS -- which considering Ms. Cheney's partnership is what, fifteen, twenty years old thus far -- this baby will have.

It's a silly remark anyway -- a kid would be far better off with one supportive parent than two, if the other parent were abusive.

Duh. But you get it more in the single families.

Can you provide some studies for this?

I have never seen research that says a single parent is better than two parents and there is much research to show that it is worse. That of course is average and there will be exceptions. Also, a single parent is better than no parent. Some research does show that it is better if the father dies than is divorced. Children can accept death better than abandonment.

Of course, not all fathers who leave a household after a divorce abandon their children. Being the child of a single mother doesn't necessarily mean you only have one parent.

(I'm speaking as the child of divorced parents. My father's dad died when my father was a young child. I think I was far better off with an involved father who didn't live with me, than he was losing his father at such a young age.)

I will offer my own expierence to the OP:

Two parents would be nice. It does help for money situations.

However, my old man was/is a 3 timer loser. The best thing he did for us was leave when I was 5. We had a hard time as mom bought into the conservative family values crap of the mom staying at home. She ended up divorced with 2 children and no skills.


The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.


That lady is an idiotic ****.

That is about as eloquent as you can get to describe her! :D

I only tried drugs in college(only smoked a couple joints and a pipe or two). I never dropped out of school. I am a responsible parent. Well at least I think I am. ;)

Some of the biggest drug users are affluent children with two parents. One of the local high schools (mainly wealthy kids) gets drug raided twice a year.

Kids dropping out happen with 2 parents all the time.

Two parent family solving everything is a fantasy.

I for one think it's crazy to keep an abusing male around just because it will "help" the children.

Some people are just not cut out for marriage or parenting.

My old man is on his 4th wife and I know of 5 half-brothers and sisters......

Way to overgeneralize! We all know there are exceptions. The question is not whether good people can come from bad families or single parent homes, the question is which system produces the most screw ups.

Right. I generalize, but so do you. If all these single parent kids turned criminal, anarchy would rule the world. By the way, and this has been studied and proven, only a small amount of abused children will reproduce the crimes committed against them at a later age. The others strive to make a difference, mainly for children who are or have been in the same position.

I was raised by divorced parents.

I turned out only partially screwed up. If my parents hadn't divorced, I'd probably be a basket case.

It takes two parents to raise a child and it takes one to raise a criminal.

Wow! That is about as ignorant as you can get.

So everybody in jail was raised by a single parent? :rolleyes:

I think it might be better with two parent tho rather than one, as it gives you two opinions on a matter because, although they one never admit it, sometimes a parent can be being completely unreasonable.
Having two of them just helps to iron out each individual ones oddities usually.

Ideally parents should provide a united front (unless something is seriously wrong). However, the reason 2 parent households are more stable is that with two parents, there is more time to devote to the kid as well as those annoying things called "life".

Financially speaking, a child can grow up with just one parent if he or she has the means. However, emotionally and psychologically speaking? I'd suppose it depends on whether or not the child is a pre-adolescent. I think in a child's younger years it's quite necessary that it gets both a male and female influence. I'd need to read more on the matter to corroborate this view though.

Thanks. I know that so many people think that single parenting is a choice as opposed to child abuse. But you know what it isnt just the single nutcase dad who is responsible it is the woman too. What woman would not abort a child of a nutcase or even sleep with one in the first place? Assuming he changed over time into a whacko, she should fight more for custody instead of letting junior grow up with Mr. Nutjob.

Wow! Two for two on ignorant comments.

People don't have "nutcase" detectors. Some can come off as rather charming.

Some become one over time.

Fight for custody? Do you know how hard it is for a man to get custody of a child?

A child needs love. It doesn't matter what gender or number it comes from...it needs love.

I would rather see a child raised by a single parent who loves the child than the "traditional" mother and father who couldn't care less.

Ideally, the child should have two loving parents. But, as with all ideals, this isn't always the case. Gender in now way effects how that parent can love that child.

Way to overgeneralize! We all know there are exceptions. The question is not whether good people can come from bad families or single parent homes, the question is which system produces the most screw ups.

Speaking of generalizations.

Many good kids come from single parent homes and many bad kids come from 2 parent homes.

Two "good" parents are better then one.

One bad parent messes of the family.....

The more loving, caring people in a childs life the better, probably. But I'm not sure whether gender really matters much.
Let's be honest, gender is mostly important for the act reproduction; and in getting there. It's not so much involved in parenting (breast feeding being a notable exception; while not impossible, most men don't tend to lactate).

breast feeding being a notable exception; while not impossible, most men don't tend to lactate
Not from their breasts at any rate. :)

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

Well first of all, as a guy who has basically been raised by my mother alone, I'd like to tell that lady to go fuck herself...

...beyond that, I do absolutely agree that a father is an important figure in a child's upbringing, equally so to a mother's. For boys in particular, I think a father is quite important; trust me there have been times when I would have liked to have been able to talk to my father about...y'know...guy stuff, unfortunately, I don't know where he is.

Certainly, two parents is definately EASIER, but if I am any indication, not ESSENTIAL, and in cases of a messy marriages, sometimes impossible. What's important, in my opinion, is that there is at least ONE person in this world who will love you unconditionally, and will do anything for you. Male, female, one or two, does not matter.

...beyond that, I do absolutely agree that a father is an important figure in a child's upbringing, equally so to a mother's. For boys in particular, I think a father is quite important; trust me there have been times when I would have liked to have been able to talk to my father about...y'know...guy stuff, unfortunately, I don't know where he is.

Not just that - to a girl a father-figure is quite a critical influence in how she will later perceive herself and react to the opposite sex. Likewise, a mother has a similar influence on her sons. Personally I prefer keeping personal things to myself, however I feel more comfortable with my mother regarding emotional matters, if I must share them...

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

i voted no, but if you look at the stats of kids who had only 1 parent

there somethin like 10 times more likely to get depressed 20 times more likely die alone 5 times more likely to get aids 100 times more likely to get divorced

they go on and on.... i'm just gettin them from memory but they were horrible and from a reliable source

they go on and on.... i'm just gettin them from memory but they were horrible and from a reliable source
Lemme guess... Moses came to you in a vision? :eek:

i voted no, but if you look at the stats of kids who had only 1 parent

there somethin like 10 times more likely to get depressed 20 times more likely die alone 5 times more likely to get aids 100 times more likely to get divorced

they go on and on.... i'm just gettin them from memory but they were horrible and from a reliable sourceYeah, but you should also consider what you compare those numbers with. If you look at the kids of parents that are just "staying together for the kids", it's even worse. So the kids would be better off, most likely, if the parents got divorced.
A matter of choosing the latter of two evils.

I think the poll result here is pretty interesting...

Split evenly between the "yes, and I have two parents" and the "no, and I have two parents"

But a big margin in the single parent categories. Hmm.

Lemme guess... Moses came to you in a vision? :eek:

only gays have visions, he came to me via a revelation/mystical experience which is what straight people have

get yer facts straight:rolleyes:

Yeah, but you should also consider what you compare those numbers with. If you look at the kids of parents that are just "staying together for the kids", it's even worse. So the kids would be better off, most likely, if the parents got divorced.
A matter of choosing the latter of two evils.

tis why i voted no, i mean its the right thing to do but its still harsh on the kid

two parents, one a carer and one a guider is the best combo methinks

I grew up with my mother only, and she was great, but my father's death took so much away.

I think that a child can grow up fine with only a mother. However, it would be nice if the child had a positive male role model. Unfortunately, in this child's case, it will probably be Dick Chaney.

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

I had both parents until I was 14, and it was hell on earth.
Then my mother finally left my father, and family life was suddenly much improved.
My mother had stayed with him that long for exactly that reason. People had told her that her children need their father, so she stupidly stayed with him for our sake. It's bullshit, absout and total bullshit.
No child needs father or mother. What a child needs is as many people as possible being there and loving it and caring for it. That can just as well be two mothers, two fathers, one mother, one father, one aunt and a grandmother, two uncles and an older sister, it doesn't matter.
But to force a father on the child is simply wrong.

I get kind of mad at people who insist that two parents is always the best option, that's a load of bunk. One person who really loves the child is always better than two who neglect it.

only gays have visions, he came to me via a revelation/mystical experience which is what straight people have
Yes, that's true, you poor heteros have to have things done for you. :(

get yer facts straight:rolleyes:
Impossible. :D Now seriously, what would the source be? Those numbers are incredible.

Can you provide some studies for this?

I am too lazy. I heard about one on National Public Radio though.

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

I think that he'd only turn to drugs and drop out of school if:

A. The parenting skills of both mothers are poor.

B. Society tells him he's a loser because he has gay parents.

Frankly, B is much more likely. Society, you create your own evils, you twits.

Wow! Two for two on ignorant comments.

People don't have "nutcase" detectors. Some can come off as rather charming.

Some become one over time.

Fight for custody? Do you know how hard it is for a man to get custody of a child?

Yes intimately and it is not that hard. At least in places where there are equal rights laws.

tis why i voted no, i mean its the right thing to do but its still harsh on the kid

two parents, one a carer and one a guider is the best combo methinks

I can tell you from personal experience that it isn't.

A child needs love. It doesn't matter what gender or number it comes from...it needs love.

I would rather see a child raised by a single parent who loves the child than the "traditional" mother and father who couldn't care less.

Ideally, the child should have two loving parents. But, as with all ideals, this isn't always the case. Gender in now way effects how that parent can love that child.

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? He will grow up confused or gay. If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? He will grow up confused or gay. If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.
A couple of fallacies:

a) Women are just as able to teach boys, as well as their daughters, how to stand up for themselves. This idiotic assumption that women are weak, passive creatures must die for once and for all. If society encourages them to be, well of course they are going to be weak! There is no imperative in nature that states that a female must be so; no, she is expected to defend her children to the death, even against the father if need be.

b) You can't grow up gay... :rolleyes:

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? He will grow up confused or gay. If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.

Right... both my brothers are gay. Neither of them ever stood up to any bullies, not even for others, and they have no way of dealing with all us evil bullshitting women.
Kindly remove your head from your rectum.

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? He will grow up confused or gay. If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.
Because as we all know, women can't do anything except stand around barefoot cooking in the kitchen while holding onto their buldging pregnant stomachs.

BULLSHIT.

My mom was the one who taught me how to stand up to people. My mom was the one who taught me not to take nonsense but to be honest and straight up. And I'm sure my mom would have some survival tips up her sleeve if I ever needed them.

Oh, and as for the growing up gay? Well, we know all straight parents raise straight kids, right? :D

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

So, was he saying it needed two parents, or that it needed a mother and a father. There's different ways to answer each point.

How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man?You need to be taught to have a penis?

How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods?The same way a man would? What genderspecific survival skills are there? Peeing against a tree?

How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys?Hey, guess who has the inside scoop there. She probably knows the rules of the game a lot better.

I come from a military family. My dad was kill in Iraq in 2005, and its been hard not having a father figure around.

I feel for all those who dont know or have lost their dads, but those of you who do have a dad, get along with him, dont back talk, you never know when he can be taken away from you.

I come from a military family. My dad was kill in Iraq in 2005, and its been hard not having a father figure around.

I feel for all those who dont know or have lost their dads, but those of you who do have a dad, get along with him, dont back talk, you never know when he can be taken away from you.

No offence, but in the case of my family that can't be soon enough.

I come from a military family. My dad was kill in Iraq in 2005, and its been hard not having a father figure around.

I feel for all those who dont know or have lost their dads, but those of you who do have a dad, get along with him, dont back talk, you never know when he can be taken away from you.

That is so sad. I am sorry that your dad died. He died fighting an evil dictator that did really terrible things to its people like terribly torturing them. He paid the ultimate price so that we could stop the torture and make sure that Saddam did not have the terrrible weapons that we thought he had and he refused to let UN inspectors in to make sure he did not have them.

Some people's fathers get killed in a meaningless car accident. Your dad died as a hero in one of the greatest crusades against evil ever undertaken.

I am sorry for your loss and the loss of your family. Gob bless you.

No offence, but in the case of my family that can't be soon enough.
I almost want to the same, although it's just in my own case - and is highly unjustified on my part as well.

You need to be taught to have a penis?

The same way a man would? What genderspecific survival skills are there? Peeing against a tree?

Hey, guess who has the inside scoop there. She probably knows the rules of the game a lot better.

What are you? Some kind of a liberal feminist or something? Why do you have to be like that?

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? Why does a boy need to be taught how to have a fully developed penis and testes?
How is he going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? Why must women be weak, passive, dormant creatures who can only stand in the kitchen cooking dinner, barefoot and 8 months pregnant? Women can fight back too. He will grow up confused or gay. You can't "grow up" gay. How can two straight parents have a gay kid? Are you implying that gay parents only have gay kids?
If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated. Hey look! A pregnant lesbian! Gays can too breed then, idiot. And the world is only overpopulated because of obsolete religious texts.

What are you? Some kind of a liberal feminist or something? Why do you have to be like that?

why are you the way you are?

that's a more interesting question.

Why must women be weak, passive, dormant creatures who can only stand in the kitchen cooking dinner, barefoot and 8 months pregnant? Women can fight back too.
Amen. :)

I almost want to the same, although it's just in my own case - and is highly unjustified on my part as well.

I'm really talking just about my case here. I never lived in another family, so I can't say about them.
And in case of my father, that's highly justified. *nods*

What are you? Some kind of a liberal feminist or something? Why do you have to be like that?

*lol
Brilliant argument.... :p

I'm really talking just about my case here. I never lived in another family, so I can't say about them.
I meant more myself within my family - I'm being rather selfish (although I am sure my likewise self-centred brother thinks much the same way).

And in case of my father, that's highly justified. *nods*
In my case it really isn't - my father is homophobic, which irritates the living daylights out of me, but otherwise I have no issue with him, so I suppose it's a rather harsh sentiment on my part.

What are you?I'm not sure I'm qualified to define my self. Let's say, I'm agnostic.

Some kind of a liberal feminist or something?My magic eightball says "doubtfull".
Anyway, there's cultures where the societal norms for women and men are reversed. Men are the caregivers, women the hunters/protectors/providers. So it's ludicrous that the "nuclear family" is the only natural model (in fact it is far from natural, as in hunter-gather societies men and women are on much more equal footing).

Why do you have to be like that?Like what? Rational? Moderate? Omnipotent? Omniscient? Obnoxious? Gimme something, does it at least start with an O?

magic eightball says "doubtfull".
Anyway, there's cultures where the societal norms for women and men are reversed. Men are the caregivers, women the hunters/protectors/providers. So it's ludicrous that the "nuclear family" is the only natural model (in fact it is far from natural, as in hunter-gather societies men and women are on much more equal footing).

The fact that non-human females more often than not must care for their young themselves and act just as though they were males in all regards excepting their role during procreation, further corroborates this. All the way to matriarchal mammals and insects (e.g. spiders). Ergo, again the nature argument is not in the favour of social conservatives in this case. The possibility of something like this (http://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/images/creatures/dun_art/Dun6_witch.jpg) ought to scare the living daylights out of them though. :)

I can tell you from personal experience that it isn't.

well i can tell you from personal experience that it is

i was just using carl jung's theory and he kick's ass in so many ways, plus most of what he said is turning out to be true...

he also said that you can find your "parents" in anything, such as fictional characters, so i guess he's for and against:confused:

No, I'm totally serious, what was up with the Q?

Tthis (http://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/images/creatures/dun_art/Dun6_witch.jpg) ought to scare the living daylights out of them though. :)

Ahhh! A 3DO reference!

Did you hang out on the old boards?

Ahhh! A 3DO reference!

Did you hang out on the old boards?
No - but I do on the new ones, much to my dismay. It's Nival now, by the way. :) That wonderful creature replaces whatever ugly used to occupy her role in the Dungeon.

well i can tell you from personal experience that it is

With a father that drove me to attempt suicide? You're seriously telling me that was better than no father?


i was just using carl jung's theory and he kick's ass in so many ways, plus most of what he said is turning out to be true...

he also said that you can find your "parents" in anything, such as fictional characters, so i guess he's for and against:confused:

I did use fictional characters as guidelines for a lot of things in life, but I had a tendency to mostly pick women. I refused to have any relationships with any male person until more than a decade after my parents split up. It took me that long to re-learn trust in men.

No - but I do on the new ones, much to my dismay. It's Nival now, by the way. :) That wonderful creature replaces whatever ugly used to occupy her role in the Dungeon.

Ahh. I think my account still works. I haven't been back there in awhile.

Some people tried to get me involved but I think UBI wanted a clean break from the old 3DO days(don't blame them) so I kind of faded away.

I might get involved again.....

Is it just me, or do the ones who go on the most about how single mothers can't raise a child don't seem to have the same qualms about single dads?

Ahh. I think my account still works. I haven't been back there in awhile.

Some people tried to get me involved but I think UBI wanted a clean break from the old 3DO days(don't blame them) so I kind of faded away.

I might get involved again.....
Do. The new look Ubi has given the game is amazing. Especially the Dungeon (due to my matriarchal fetish :D). It's bug-ridden though, and this occupies 90% of the boards, rather than suggestions on how to further enhance the already excellent game.

Do. The new look Ubi has given the game is amazing. Especially the Dungeon (due to my matriarchal fetish :D). It's bug-ridden though, and this occupies 90% of the boards, rather than suggestions on how to further enhance the already excellent game.

Hmpf. I will have to get in contact with kingo.....

This is so much garbage. I say the same, if not worse, about yours. This should be fun.
How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man?So only parents influence their children? Not uncles, brothers, teachers, clergy, et. al.? Intersting. You must have been quite sheltered. How do you fit the computer through the cage bars?
Additionally, what is it to "be a man"? I'll be it's trite sterotypical bullshit.
How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? So he couldn't take karate classes? Or she couldn't teach him? How about if it is the father who is a bully? How about if he comes home every night and beats the shit out of his son? Yeah. But atleast he has a fucking father:rolleyes:
How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods?Because we all know a woman can't hunt or start a fire. You clearly have to have a penis to pull a fucking trigger or shoot a god damned arrow. Please.
How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? My, how jaded of you. Perhaps, same way my mother did...by not doing it herself. I don't tolerate it, nor does she.
He will grow up confused or gay. God forbid he winds up with THE GAY!!!1!11!
If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.If only we could say the same about you.

What solution are these people who feel that you need both a mother and father suggesting anyway?

What solution are these people who feel that you need both a mother and father suggesting anyway?

Ahm? Outlaw divorce and pray to God for guidance?

What solution are these people who feel that you need both a mother and father suggesting anyway?

We pick a bunch of poor men up off the street, distribute them throughout the country to single mothers, and place a shock collar on them, the trigger to which we give the single mother to prevent them from getting uppity?

Actually, that sounds like something that MTAE might post. Only he'd do it much better than I.

Erm...my father moved out four days ago, which option do I choose?

That lady is an idiotic ****.
No, no, Fass. Don't beat around the bush here. Tell us what you really think.

(yes, 'beating around the bush' is delibrate)

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

Yes I bieleve that she is correct. We should also ban single mothers. And while we're at it why not just shoot the children? In the meantime, lets ban thought and creat a fascist police state in which the government assignes each child a mother and father.

No, no, Fass. Don't beat around the bush here. Tell us what you really think.

(yes, 'beating around the bush' is delibrate)
I don't think Fass could tell/show us what he really thinks without violating some pg-13 bans. And I'd tend to agree with him on all of it.

I don't think Fass could tell/show us what he really thinks without violating some pg-13 bans. And I'd tend to agree with him on all of it.

Amazingly so, seeing as I still have no idea what "PG-13" entails, as we seem to view or own 13-year-olds as much less fragile than those from the country whence this ratings system comes. Not to mention that the forums are located in the UK...

Amazingly so, seeing as I still have no idea what "PG-13" entails, as we seem to view or own 13-year-olds as much less fragile than those from the country whence this ratings system comes. Not to mention that the forums are located in the UK...

I don't really get PG-13 either...but I was watching them when I was 5...so yeah.

Oh, and they cite stupid reasons such as "rats in the water" in titanic. Stupid Americans.

I don't really get PG-13 either...but I was watching them when I was 5...so yeah.

Swedish children's programming showed full frontal nudity at 18.30 in the evening, so you might be able to relate.

Oh, and they cite stupid reasons such as "rats in the water" in titanic. Stupid Americans.

Rats in the water? Elaborate as sexily as only you can, please.

Swedish children's programming showed full frontal nudity at 18.30 in the evening, so you might be able to relate.Yeah, that was more my experience.



Rats in the water? Elaborate as sexily as only you can, please.
haha...nothing sexy about this one...it really was just rats hopping in the water as the boat sank. Kinda funny to watch.

I know this may sound a little old fashioned, but I think it's beneficial for kids to have a strong male role model. Particularly with boys, it is better to have a dad to toughen them up a bit. You don't want them growing up with just this touchy-feely nonsense, which is what will often happen if they're around women their entire lives.

In the best interests of a child, I would definately say it is much healthier for the child to have a mother and a father.

What solution are these people who feel that you need both a mother and father suggesting anyway?

Ahm? Outlaw divorce and pray to God for guidance?

Either legalizing polygamy so children have the maxamized chances of having a male and female parental role in their lives... Or beating women into submission so everyone lives a happy life. Everyone is happy as long as daddy is happy.

-------
Anyway, had to comment a lil' here even though I'm sure it's been well covered.

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man?

Easy, get drunk and beat the boy, just like a real man/father.

How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully?

More beating? Oh, and giving him beer. Beer, the manly man thing to do when 12. ;)

How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods?

Urban Jungle survival.

How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys?

More beatings?

He will grow up confused or gay.

False. Here's some links proving you to either be a liar or ignorant or reality. :D

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html
(Facts.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/june99/gays14.htm
(More accepting?! Heaven's no! Real men don't fall for sissy communist ideas like being accepting of others! :p )

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/113/110762.htm
(More Facts. Take notice of the "well adjusted kids" part. ;) )

If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.

There's that wonderfull accepting attitude that brings a smile to all the children's faces...

Anyway, gay's aren't sterile. Invintro fertilization, surrogate mothers, and other various processes prove gay's can reproduce. Much like heterosexual couples in which one partner is sterile. ;)

haha...nothing sexy about this one...it really was just rats hopping in the water as the boat sank. Kinda funny to watch.

I was hoping more for an explanation as to what you were getting at...

Do children need a mother?

I am a single dad raising my two boys.
Their mother is a recovering drug addict that does not believe that alcohol is a drug.
She stopped doing drugs but still drinks.

Do you think my kids would be better off with her and her drunken scumbag boyfriend who has a long criminal record?
Or are they better off with one parent that is clean, sober, has a good job and loves them very much?

After all if she had the kids there would be two "parents" in the home.

Yes I bieleve that she is correct. We should also ban single mothers. And while we're at it why not just shoot the children? In the meantime, lets ban thought and creat a fascist police state in which the government assignes each child a mother and father.

What the hell are you talking about? Shooting children? where are you getting this from? Does any viewpoint (e.g. children need male role-models) contrary to your own merit any thought at all or are you just leaping to retarded conclusions? Are you mental?

What the hell are you talking about? Shooting children? where are you getting this from? Does any viewpoint (e.g. children need male role-models) contrary to your own merit any thought at all or are you just leaping to retarded conclusions? Are you mental?

Shooting children of single parents protects them from the horrors of life under a single-parent household. Isn't it obvious that it's the "right thing to do"? After all, single parents are worse than gays, Hitler, and the Bubonic plague all in one! Clearly the work of the devil, no?

What are you? Some kind of a liberal feminist or something?
I know you are, but what am I?

Here's the real question: does it have to be two people of the opposite sex? Or is it that two are better than one, everything else being equal? Obviously, one stable parent is better than two unstable ones.

Actually, yes. The two sexes might be equal but they aren't identical. men and women handle child rearing differently. There is a balance when both are available.

Obviously this is based on averages and doesn't apply to a specific situation.

I don't really get PG-13 either...but I was watching them when I was 5...so yeah.

Oh, and they cite stupid reasons such as "rats in the water" in titanic. Stupid Americans.
Jane Austen's "Pride & Prejudice" was rated PG for having "mild innuendo".

Thank God we're saving our children from such obscenity!!

Actually, yes. The two sexes might be equal but they aren't identical. men and women handle child rearing differently. There is a balance when both are available.

Obviously this is based on averages and doesn't apply to a specific situation.

Sorry, but that's crap. I'd venture to say, based on my personal experience as a parent and as a member of the parenting community, that there's greater variance in parenting ideas within gender groups than there is between gender groups. Parenting is an intensely personal experience--don't believe me? Accuse someone of being a bad parent and see how strongly they justify their style.

This is so much garbage. How is a mother going to teach a boy how to be a man? How is she going to teach him to stand up to a bully? How is she going to teach him to survive out in the woods? How is she going to teach him not to fall for the BS that women give men and girls give boys? He will grow up confused or gay. If gays start having kids I will have absolutely 0% support for them because right now the only thing good about them is that they cant breed and the world is overpopulated.

You're funny.

Apparently, when you go camping, you set up a tent, gather wood, build a fire, and so forth using your penis. While I'm impressed with your skill, you might want to try using your hands next time. It's much easier, and we girls can do it, too!

Further, when I've stood up to bullies, I mostly do so through the power of something called words. I suppose, if I were male, I could take out my penis and slap them with it, but I really suspect words are more effective. But don't take my word for it - feel free to try both options and compare the results!

Actually, yes. The two sexes might be equal but they aren't identical. men and women handle child rearing differently. There is a balance when both are available.

Obviously this is based on averages and doesn't apply to a specific situation.

So, given that each and every family is a specific situation, that piece of information is basically useless?

Do you agree with that topic?

I was watching tv lastnight and CNN had people on debating the subject of the pregnant lesbian daughter of the vice president..

The lady said a child needs a father, no matter how great the mother could be, if the kid doesn't have a father, he will turn to drugs and drop out of school.

Do you agree?

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?
I generally feel that it's best if parents outnumber their children, just to give the poor geezers a fighting chance. However, the gender of the parents is irrelevant, since there is no parenting function that requires maleness or femaleness in particular.

You're funny.

Apparently, when you go camping, you set up a tent, gather wood, build a fire, and so forth using your penis. While I'm impressed with your skill, you might want to try using your hands next time. It's much easier, and we girls can do it, too!

Further, when I've stood up to bullies, I mostly do so through the power of something called words. I suppose, if I were male, I could take out my penis and slap them with it, but I really suspect words are more effective. But don't take my word for it - feel free to try both options and compare the results!
I really, really like you.

I only had the requisite two parents, but my daughter has, in some ways had four (for the last six years at least). My ex and I divorced 12 years ago, and for the last six have been in solid, monogamous relationships. My daughter has lived with both of us in that period, so in some ways, she's had one dad and three moms. She seems to be doing okay with it.

Unless your ex-husband is a polygamist, that ain't cool.

a boy needs a father to teach him important guy things. like, fighting, pick poketing, how to make bombs, tricks to how down beer really fast and the like.

funny story.
i grew up up with two then one day my dad rang and told me to meet him a bar. he then told me he had left the house three weeks ago. i was a bit shocked but i saw it as productive. then the next morning mother dearest asked why was in a bar with farther dearest, i just casually told he told me that he had left the house. what i didnt know was that he didnt tell my mother yet.

a boy needs a father to teach him important guy things. like, fighting, pick poketing, how to make bombs, tricks how down beer really fast and the like.

funny story.
i grew up up with two then one day my dad rang and told me to meet him a bar. he then told me he had left the house three weeks ago. i was a bit shocked but i saw it as productive. then the next mother dearest asked why was in a bar with farther dearest, i just casually told he told me that he had left the house. what i didnt know was that he didnt my mother yet.

Ok. Now try that in English.

Ok. Now try that in English.

do you not say 'down beer' where your from?

do you not say 'down beer' where your from?

Odd.... my mom could drink that poor excuse for a father I was blessed with under the table any time.
What does being able to hold alcohol have to do with having a penis?

Odd.... my mom could drink that poor excuse for a father I was blessed with under the table any time.
What does being able to hold alcohol have to do with having a penis?

as it is true that there are many of a woman better than some men at drinking, my sister for example is probably the second best drinker i know. men usually have more fat and muscle so more able to handle booze better. that is a fact.

do you not say 'down beer' where your from?

Where I am from, people don't speak english, but I usually see people saying "where you are from" when they talk in english, your is a possessive, I think.

as it is true that there are many of a woman better than some men at drinking, my sister for example is probably the second best drinker i know. men usually have more fat and muscle so more able to handle booze better. that is a fact.

*lol There's a lot more to handling booze than sheer mass, honey.

Where I am from, people don't speak english, but I usually see people saying "where you are from" when they talk in english, your is a possessive, I think.

Sshhh, he's a dyslexic in denial...

as it is true that there are many of a woman better than some men at drinking, my sister for example is probably the second best drinker i know. men usually have more fat and muscle so more able to handle booze better. that is a fact.

Then your sister can teach her kids how to "down beer". It's not like it is useful knowledge, anyway.

*lol There's a lot more to handling booze than sheer mass, honey.

yeah i know experience too, but mass helps alot.

Sshhh, he's a dyslexic in denial...

never claimed not to be dyslexic. i dont think its fuuny to make fun of people with disabilities. although dyslexia isnt the worst.
'down beer' is a usuall phrase in dublin. less usuall phrase but used be my friends, is "do a downer". meaning the same thing.

yeah i know experience too, but mass helps alot.

There's not much teaching involved on your father's side then, is it? He simply has the mass. Your mother would have the experience...

There's not much teaching involved on your father's side then, is it? He simply has the mass. Your mother would have the experience...

we have a rule in my family, mother isnt allowed have more than two drinks.

we have a rule in my family, mother isnt allowed have more than two drinks.

Or else what? Your father will leave her?
Nice family...

never claimed not to be dyslexic. i dont think its fuuny to make fun of people with disabilities. although dyslexia isnt the worst.
'down beer' is a usuall phrase in dublin. less usuall phrase but used be my friends, is "do a downer". meaning the same thing.

What I have never understood is why dyslexic people have writing as a hobby.

It's like blind people having archery as a hobby, you know, it's not...wise, I would say.

And everyone can drink. Cooking, well, thats another matter.

But about the main issue of this thread. Mom died, raised by father alone, and I think he did a marvelous work.

Or else what? Your father will leave her?
Nice family...

No, if she has more than two drinks, she can't have any pudding...

What I have never understood is why dyslexic people have writing as a hobby.

It's like blind people having archery as a hobby, you know, it's not...wise, I would say.

LMFAO!

And everyone can drink. Cooking, well, thats another matter.

And drinking while cooking is even more difficult. ;)

But about the main issue of this thread. Mom died, raised by father alone, and I think he did a marvelous work.

I'd say he did a fantastic job.

And by the way, since I know you appreciate the tips, "trabajo," in this instance, would translate to "job," not work. :)

No, if she has more than two drinks, she can't have any pudding...

HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO DRINKS?!? YOU! YES, YOU! STAND STILL, LADDIE!

And drinking while cooking is even more difficult. ;)


Well, in my case, if you don't provide me with wine, I won't provide you with cooking.


I'd say he did a fantastic job.

And by the way, since I know you appreciate the tips, "trabajo," in this instance, would translate to "job," not work. :)
[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Twice.

Do you agree with that topic?

'snip'

Does a child really need two parents?

How was your childhood? Did you have both parents, or just one?

I grew up with mostly just my mum. I missed my dad, but I think I'm still human, and still alive.

I suppose you really ought to define what you mean by 'need'.

I obviously didn't need my dad. I'm not a drug addict or an alcoholic. I don't even smoke. I did survive my childhood and adolescence. But I sure would have liked to have spent a whole lot more time with him, and get to know him a little.

I reckon a child is potentially better off with two parents, but he/she doesn't actually need any in order to survive. Just a orphanage carer will do.

What I have never understood is why dyslexic people have writing as a hobby.

It's like blind people having archery as a hobby, you know, it's not...wise, I would say.

And everyone can drink. Cooking, well, thats another matter.

But about the main issue of this thread. Mom died, raised by father alone, and I think he did a marvelous work.


You really can't work it out? It's to help us try to over come our problems with it. By writting more offten, it sorta helps us notice patterns in any mistakes we may make.

Easy that huh!:p

You really can't work it out? It's to help us try to over come our problems with it. By writting more offten, it sorta helps us notice patterns in any mistakes we may make.

Easy that huh!:p

I hardly find any improvements, usually. I had a similar discussion with someone with Asperger who was studying "Public Relations" back in the university, and used that same argument. Hell, if you are so bad at it, Why to try to give said things such a highlight in your life, when there are so many things you could be good at?

I hardly find any improvements, usually. I had a similar discussion with someone with Asperger who was studying "Public Relations" back in the university, and used that same argument. Hell, if you are so bad at it, Why to try to give said things such a highlight in your life, when there are so many things you could be good at?

It's not a question of being bad about it, it's not something we can help. I'm not bad a speling as such, my brain does not intupret what my eyes see in the same way as a non dyslexic's brain does. So by constantly practicing it does help me to see where I have made mistakes. Unfortuneatly writting is a part of life, I have a job, I need to write. So I must practice, imagine how bad my speling would be if I didn't?

Or else what? Your father will leave her?
Nice family...

already left.
mother bad alcholic. shouldnt be allowed drink more than two or goes crazy. just trying to take care of her.

Jane Austen's "Pride & Prejudice" was rated PG for having "mild innuendo".

Thank God we're saving our children from such obscenity!!
ugh....that book should just be banned.

I was hoping more for an explanation as to what you were getting at...
That the MPAA is pretty much...well...retarded.
already left.
mother bad alcholic. shouldnt be allowed drink more than two or goes crazy. just trying to take care of her.
You need to work on making complete sentences if you want people to have any idea what you are saying. Those short little words like "is", "she", "to"...that kinda thng.

men usually have more fat and muscle so more able to handle booze better. that is a fact.
Incorrect. Men have an easier time putting on upper body muscle, yes, but women tend to have more body fat overall, and I believe have proportionately slightly shorter upper body limbs; it allows energy conservation, and provides resistance to extreme temperatures, optimising a woman's body for pregnancy.

whatever you think, about booze or muscles or vaginas,
It takes both a woman and a man to raise a child.

either sex; we grow up with influences from both parents.
we can be soft; and listen, and be diplomatic!!! but we can never be soft when we strike!

You have to hear people, in order to be learned, for the people who speak are protraying the masses of non-speakers they represent. And though they aren;t truly "learned" or speaking to a book, they are probably your last hope.

Man and Woman create child! Whom is boy or girl and becomes:
duh dud da daHHHHHH! :
(believe it or not:)

Man and Woman!

The future depends on how our offspring are raised, what values they have instilled, we have all seen the consequences of poor values. I know.


It is up to you.

It takes both a woman and a man to raise a child.

No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't.

ok, that was easy for you to refute...
I suppose the burden lays on me to determine what it is we're talking about.



Can you say that a person is of either gender, and consists of all male or all female traits?

:confused:

Come again?

ok, that was easy for you to refute...

Of course it was, since I know many people who weren't raised by a man and a woman, and they were raised just fine. I also know quite a few gay couples with children (there is a baby boom among Sweden's gay people going on, not to mention gay adoptions picking up) and all their children are doing quite well; better than I did with my mom and dad, but that's mostly because all the gay couples with children I know are better parents than my parents were.

Can you say that a person is of either gender, and consists of all male or all female traits?

What?

:confused:

Come again?

hehe you said come.

nice job avoiding the question.

Can you say that a person is of either gender, and consists of all male or all female traits?

Are there even "male" and "female" traits?

nice job avoiding the question.

There was a question in there? Because all I saw was an incoherent sentence with a question mark at the end of it.

There was a question in there? Because all I saw was an incoherent sentence with a question mark at the end of it.

I believe he intended to ask:

"Can a person of either gender have all male and all female traits?"

I believe he intended to ask:

"Can a person of either gender have all male and all female traits?"

A question I still don't understand, let alone see the relevance of.

Can you say that a person is of either gender, and consists of all male or all female traits?

That is a complete sentence. It is a question.

If you are too stupid to refute or answer, then please go awn and eat one for me....

if you have a valid response, I would love to hear it.

If you are too stupid to refute or answer, then please go awn and eat one for me....

Yes, I'm "too stupid" to understand a Nazi. That must be it. By the by, go "awn"? Eat what?

IT is very fucking simple, and no, for the umpteenth time, I am not a nazi.


All that was meant by the question: Does a child of either gender have traits that are purely male or female (paraphrase)?

was to make you ask yourself about the different aspects of your socialisation(sp).

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models, IMO, in order to be shaped into a proper human being. It is undisputable. (sP) It is yin and yang, It is what built up 'nature's selection' of you are now. It is apparently too simple to be understood, and I do not blame whoever 'You' is, I simply believe that it is simpler than 'you' realize...
so dont be mean.
i'm not...

All that was meant by the question: Does a child of either gender have traits that are purely male or female (paraphrase)?

Why do you think that there are male traits and female traits?

Indeed, if everyone is composed of traits from both groups, upon what basis do you designate some as male and some as female? And furthermore, if that's the case, how can you say that a male cannot be a role model for a female trait (or vice versa)?

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models, IMO, in order to be shaped into a proper human being.

And since when have children only selected role models from their own parents?

Why do you think that there are male traits and female traits?

because there is a sun, and there is a moon, there is there is the cold, cold ground.

You can't deny male and female characteristics. I won't even name them, it is so basic to us.



Indeed, if everyone is composed of traits from both groups, upon what basis do you designate some as male and some as female? And furthermore, if that's the case, how can you say that a male cannot be a role model for a female trait (or vice versa)?

I'll address the last part of your typings. A male can of course direct offspring in the female traits, and vice versa, for these traits are subtle things, It isn't like "ME KILL. YOU COOK!" It is far more civilisized. The human mind as a child must learn the subtlety of "this vs. that" The basic precepts of which are beyond us adults in maturity, but exist as building blocks of reason and logic.

It is common knowledge that the sexes have both their distinct places and advantages. That is everyday common knowledge for us. The child must learn that strength has it;s weakness, and that at times weakness is strenght...You could never obverse this as a child without seeing your both male and female parents interact.

that is my only point.

because there is a sun, and there is a moon, there is there is the cold, cold ground.

Your argumentation is as elegant as ever.

You can't deny male and female characteristics. I won't even name them, it is so basic to us.

"I have no argument, so I'll pretend it's my opponent who's being disingenuous."

I'll address the last part of your typings. A male can of course direct offspring in the female traits, and vice versa, for these traits are subtle things, It isn't like "ME KILL. YOU COOK!" It is far more civilisized. The human mind as a child must learn the subtlety of "this vs. that" The basic precepts of which are beyond us adults in maturity, but exist as building blocks of reason and logic.

It is common knowledge that the sexes have both their distinct places and advantages. That is everyday common knowledge for us. The child must learn that strength has it;s weakness, and that at times weakness is strenght...You could never obverse this as a child without seeing your both male and female parents interact.

that is my only point.

What?

well I apologize for my dual use of the word 'there'. It was an honest mistake.
However, on the point, i feel that words though they may have been short, best spelled my meaning.
It could be better said in person, troll as ye may on that statement.

IT is very fucking simple, and no, for the umpteenth time, I am not a nazi.


All that was meant by the question: Does a child of either gender have traits that are purely male or female (paraphrase)?

was to make you ask yourself about the different aspects of your socialisation(sp).

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models, IMO, in order to be shaped into a proper human being. It is undisputable. (sP) It is yin and yang, It is what built up 'nature's selection' of you are now. It is apparently too simple to be understood, and I do not blame whoever 'You' is, I simply believe that it is simpler than 'you' realize...
so dont be mean.
i'm not...

If I wasn't so lazy and tired, I'd link you some research that shows you're wrong. It would require effort though, and it's just easier to be right and do nothing.

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models, IMO, in order to be shaped into a proper human being. It is undisputable. (sP) It is yin and yang, It is what built up 'nature's selection' of you are now. It is apparently too simple to be understood, and I do not blame whoever 'You' is, I simply believe that it is simpler than 'you' realize...
so dont be mean.
i'm not...

Well of course we are all products of our environment, and we learn through socialising with others, but that does not mean that without a father a child will not have a male role model or influence. Children are shaped by their parents, by their families, by their school teachers and friends and enemies and television. The presence or absence of one person, while it will obviously have an effect as everything does, will not make a huge difference in terms of whether the child turns out okay.

As long as the home environment is stable and nurturing, and the child has a peer group who are not total scum, they should turn out okay. An absent parent is better than an abusive or neglectful one, or even an overly critical one in some cases.

Are there even "male" and "female" traits?

Nope. Those are simply social constructs, and none that are worth preseverving as they would force individuals in prescribed roles.

Nope. Those are simply social constructs, and none that are worth preseverving as they would force individuals in prescribed roles.

I'm not certain of that, but I definitely think it's true that present-day gender roles are largely socially enforced rather than naturally based.

What's indicative of this is the way that people obsess so much over them. They wouldn't, if people didn't try to break out of them - a pretty good indicator that they are not natural.

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models, IMO, in order to be shaped into a proper human being. It is undisputable.

Your opinion is entirely disputable. You fail.

Ok, I am honest.
I am too lazy to read all of the posts.

Why does it seem that so many of you are saying thata child doesnt need a father as much as a mother?

Women have no magical gene that makes them superior at raising children, as a matter of fact that archaic line of thinking has put more children in jeopardy for abuse and neglect then any other in my opinion.

Also what makes any of you think a single is as capable as two?

That is absurd, children require attention, observation, and example.
Two parents are obviously more efficient then one--because one person only has so much energy and so much power to keep on the spot all the time.
Parenting is done much better as a team sport.

But whatever most of you arent parents anyway, so how would you know.

I'm not certain of that, but I definitely think it's true that present-day gender roles are largely socially enforced rather than naturally based.

What's indicative of this is the way that people obsess so much over them. They wouldn't, if people didn't try to break out of them - a pretty good indicator that they are not natural.

Most research in young children's behavior demonstrates boys to be naturally nurturing(far more and far earlier then girls) until we beat that out of them with "tough guy" crap that is.

I'm not certain of that, but I definitely think it's true that present-day gender roles are largely socially enforced rather than naturally based.

What's indicative of this is the way that people obsess so much over them. They wouldn't, if people didn't try to break out of them - a pretty good indicator that they are not natural.

I think if we're talking about mere character traits and behaviour (which is more or less the only thing that can be somewhat influenced by upbringing, then no, there are no traits that are specifically male or female. As stated before, these attributes vary more in each gender than they do between genders.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO DRINKS?!? YOU! YES, YOU! STAND STILL, LADDIE!

confused. is more than two drinks alot for other people?

I'm not certain of that, but I definitely think it's true that present-day gender roles are largely socially enforced rather than naturally based.

What's indicative of this is the way that people obsess so much over them. They wouldn't, if people didn't try to break out of them - a pretty good indicator that they are not natural.
I agree with this.

I think if we're talking about mere character traits and behaviour (which is more or less the only thing that can be somewhat influenced by upbringing, then no, there are no traits that are specifically male or female. As stated before, these attributes vary more in each gender than they do between genders.
Whilst I agree with you that on some level environment and nurture play a role in forming character traits, I think biology does have a role to play too. That isn't to say what people commonly perceive to be gender-associated traits are due to genetics, but it does play a role. A lot of female traits are not so much due to the biological fact that a person is female, but rather due to millenia of certain social structures in human civilisations which inevitably influenced biology - these I believe will eventually change over time as women become more and more independent, and this in turn eventually influences biology. You're probably correct in that there are more variations within genders than between them though, and indubitably this must have a genetic component to it.

One needs to be a child learning from both male and femlale role models

What if the child grows up in say, for example, a lesbian couple, where one partner is masculine and provided for the child a father-like figure? Just because some one is of a certain gender does not mean they can not display the emotional traits of the other gender. The child would have a motherly figure as well as a fatherly figure.

I was raised with a mom and a dad, but I didn't interact with my dad at all... so really I was primarily raised by my mom and I turned out fine. Heck, I think the only time me and my dad did anything together was when he taught me to shave for the first time, lol, which he really didn't have to do because it isn't that hard to begin with.

Ok, I am honest.
I am too lazy to read all of the posts.

Why does it seem that so many of you are saying thata child doesnt need a father as much as a mother?

Women have no magical gene that makes them superior at raising children, as a matter of fact that archaic line of thinking has put more children in jeopardy for abuse and neglect then any other in my opinion.

Also what makes any of you think a single is as capable as two?

That is absurd, children require attention, observation, and example.
Two parents are obviously more efficient then one--because one person only has so much energy and so much power to keep on the spot all the time.
Parenting is done much better as a team sport.

But whatever most of you arent parents anyway, so how would you know.

Although my earlier post referred to single mothers, I was saying that one person, a mother or a father, can be enough.

I am not disputing that, in general, having 2 parents is better, my point was a child can be fine with one.

Althoughhaving 2 parents will benefit the child, the main benefit is to the parents - raising a child is hard, and having twice the man (or woman) power makes it easier.

But the benefits to the child can be replicated with a strong family support unit of grandparents, aunts and uncles and older siblings etc. Ive read journal articles on this stuff. Its true it is.

I think that 2 help. I need my Dad for backup against my domineering mother. Plus I have him wrapped around my little finger..

But there are some things that I could NOT talk to my Dad about. A girl really needs a mother/close female guardian for those things. I'm sure that the same is applicable for men and their fathers.

I've never went to my father about anything. What can he tell me that my mother can't?

I've never went to my father about anything. What can he tell me that my mother can't?

It's not "tell". It's observation as to how things are handled. Men and women handle every situation differently. The balance that is observed is what is important. Without one sex available on a day-to-day basis, the child misses the balance. This can be partially made up through aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc, but each of those people have another roll that the modern child is also missing.

It's not "tell". It's observation as to how things are handled. Men and women handle every situation differently. The balance that is observed is what is important. Without one sex available on a day-to-day basis, the child misses the balance. This can be partially made up through aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc, but each of those people have another roll that the modern child is also missing.

A kid can be raised by a single parent and be fine. Just because men and women handle things differently doesn't mean anything.

Two parents would be ideal for the kid, given that both are mature, clean adults with an IQ that surpasses that of a shovel. However some kids don't have two parents, either because one is not present or one does not meet the above requirements. In some cases it's both.

And so far I haven't seen much on single dads. I've heard "Mommy is supposed to take care of the little children but she can't do it without Daddy" :rolleyes:

When I adopt my first child and raise him alone without a mom, and he turns out to be the best and brightest kid in the world, I'll just laugh at all you naysayers.

When I adopt my first child and raise him alone without a mom, and he turns out to be the best and brightest kid in the world, I'll just laugh at all you naysayers.

Good luck with that...being single puts you at the bottom of the list unfortunately...cripes, even not being officially married nixes you somewhat.

But I believe that if you finally get the chance, you'll be fine.

I certainly hope I do. I love kids, those little stinkin' brats. ;)

So if you think kids need two parents because they need lots of attention then what do you say about two parents who have 3 or more children?
(this is not directed at anyone specific)

The prerequisite for two people to have and raise children persists to be that they're of opposing genders, nothing more. All the time, children end up being brought up by all kinds of alcoholics, glue sniffers, neo-nazis, religious fanatics and pro-wrestling fans. The claim that the children of a loving lesbian couple miss something vital the fruit of so-called natural unions automatically enjoy is beyond idiotic.