NationStates Jolt Archive

This came up in the thread about the kid who beat a homeless man to death with his friends. called "Prison is too hard!"

Do good and evil exist?

Discuss.

EDIT:Poll added!

Not as an entity (unless you are religious).

My belief:

God exists and anything He makes or commands is good. Evil is anything contrary to God or against God. It does not exist in itself any more than darkness exists or cold exists. It is a word used to describe the absence of the other: evil is a word describing the absence of good.

Not as an entity (unless you are religious).

Then let me qualify:

Can an act be good or evil?

My belief:

God exists and anything He makes or commands is good. Evil is anything contrary to God or against God. It does not exist in itself any more than darkness exists or cold exists. It is a word used to describe the absence of the other: evil is a word describing the absence of good.

But doesn't that contradict some central beliefs around traditional Christian beliefs about Sin?

Good exists. Evil is the absence of good rather than good in itself, however. Ethics and morality are a natural product of our God-given abilities of reason and logic.

Can an act be good or evil?
No, an act can be contrary to the accepted culture of a community, and a person can be predisposed to acting in a manner that is contrary to the accepted culture of the community, but that doesn't mean anything objectively.

But doesn't that contradict some central beliefs around traditional Christian beliefs about Sin?

Which would those be?

Then let me qualify:

Can an act be good or evil?

The words themselves are meaningless unless aplied to ones culture or individual standpoint. Anyone can call anything good or bad.

You can say however that some actions are vastly more dissaproved by most people then other actions or that some actions do much more harm then help. Because of this people can generalise actions into being good or bad that will usually be agreed by the population. This idea pretty much exists for all adverbs though.

Edit: It's a totally different matter if you believe good or evil exist as an absolute however.

I believe any act is like a simplex-iteration: it changes many parameters and only the value-function defines whether it is for better or for worse... There are certain common intervals in which the parameters normaly are and a primitive but effective method to rate these functions, which is Kant's Imperative.

Yes, I am a nerd, beat me up now!

Which would those be?

The whole can't enter heaven with sin, you're heart must be pure, washing away your sins kind of thing. If it doesn't exist how can you wash it away?

No, an act can be contrary to the accepted culture of a community, and a person can be predisposed to acting in a manner that is contrary to the accepted culture of the community, but that doesn't mean anything objectively.

But isn't it also true that there are certain concepts which are universal in human culture?

Do good and evil exist?

In the sense that certain actions lead to more happyness in the world while others lead to more misery - yes.
But as universal laws ? No.

But isn't it also true that there are certain concepts which are universal in human culture?

Name one ?

But isn't it also true that there are certain concepts which are universal in human culture?

Possible, but I don't see a way of proving that.

Good and evil are subjective.

You can probably add a poll with the Thread Tools menu.

Name one ?

Altruism? Prohibitions against theft? Punishments for violating sworn oaths?

The whole can't enter heaven with sin, you're heart must be pure, washing away your sins kind of thing. If it doesn't exist how can you wash it away?

Sin? Sin is any want of conformity unto or any transgression of the Law of God. So again, it doesn't exist. It's a word used to discribe the absence of obedience to God. So when our hearts are being washed of that sin, we are being returned to obedience.

Make sense? That's not to say Scripture is wrong: it's using the words and expressions of the people to get its point across.

Sin? Sin is any want of conformity unto or any transgression of the Law of God. So again, it doesn't exist. It's a word used to discribe the absence of obedience to God. So when our hearts are being washed of that sin, we are being returned to obedience.

Make sense? That's not to say Scripture is wrong: it's using the words and expressions of the people to get its point across.

Thats one interpretation of it.

Thats one interpretation of it.

And yours?

And yours?

Don't have one.

Altruism?
Considered "stupid" by many.

Prohibitions against theft?
Irrelevant in cultures that do not recognise property.

Violating sworn oaths?
Hmm...good one.

Don't have one.

Ahh, okay.

Considered "stupid" by many.

Only very recently, and not on a cultural level. Altruism is a core teaching of almost all (if not all) religions and ethical systems worldwide.


Irrelevant in cultures that do not recognise property.

If everything is used in common using more than your fair share would've been condemned as a kind of theft.

Hmm...good one.

That's the most universal one I could think of.

I think that western culture has a prescribed moral framework, and that makes up a sizable portion of the world.

I think that western culture has a prescribed moral framework, and that makes up a sizable portion of the world.

But at the same time, the basic ideas are shared by almost all cultures; it seems like the additions and derivations of those basic rules are what distinguish different cultures.

Good and evil are purely subjective concepts. I would go so far as to say they are purely religious concepts.

Good and evil are religious concepts. They have limited application outside of the world of scripture where not everything is neatly delineated as either good or bad. In a world created of shades of gray, what use is the word Purple? It's a useless abstraction.

Good and evil are religious concepts. They have limited application outside of the world of scripture where not everything is neatly delineated as either good or bad. In a world created of shades of gray, what use is the word Purple? It's a useless abstraction.

We use good and evil all the time. It's a very useful set of terms delineating what's right and what's wrong without having to go in to complex justification or terminology for actions.

It's like folk psychology. It's not necessarily the most accurate, but it's damn useful.

good and evil is defined by society. and sometimes society does not have an answer most can agree on (ex. abortion). most everything we know as good is because society has taught us that it is good. same goes for evil. had the history books been written differently so would our definitions of good and evil.

society influences religion. religion influences society.

I think Good and Evil are points of view. I mean, to everyone outside Germany (and a lot of people inside) during the WW2 era, the Nazis were evil. But the Nazis themselves thought they were doing good. So no-one can truly determine what is good or evil, can they?

We use good and evil all the time. It's a very useful set of terms delineating what's right and what's wrong without having to go in to complex justification or terminology for actions.

It's like folk psychology. It's not necessarily the most accurate, but it's damn useful.

So it's a gross oversimplification. Well I suppose for a world of instant gratification and sound-bite politics I suppose it's appropriate. God knows anything with nuance or more than a 30 second explanation is lost on our society.

So it's a gross oversimplification. Well I suppose for a world of instant gratification and sound-bite politics I suppose it's appropriate. God knows anything with nuance or more than a 30 second explanation is lost on our society.

It's needed to convey ideas quickly. Communication doesn't always lend itself to a long-winded speech, especially in our day of *compromised* attention spans.

There is no place for good and evil...

















...in the Farmy Dome!

It's needed to convey ideas quickly. Communication doesn't always lend itself to a long-winded speech, especially in our day of *compromised* attention spans.

It's a cop out. Instead of giving the reasoning you're saying "he's evil". That's like saying the sun lights the world because god told it to.

I view good & evil as intellectual constructs.

Coffee is good. Nazis are evil. Gay sex is good. Kiddie porn is evil. Hetero sex is good. Gnats are evil.

None of all that has any sort of intent or agenda in it's own right. Even gnats are too simple to have intent. Yet to me, those things are good or evil. And no, they're not good or evil simply by virtue of existing, they're good or evil because I enjoy them or because they annoy or harm me & other innocent critters.

It's a cop out. Instead of giving the reasoning you're saying "he's evil". That's like saying the sun lights the world because god told it to.

It may or may not be a cop out. When dealing with reasonable, mature adults in a setting in which time is not critical, it would be quite appropriate to explain the reasoning. When time is critical and you're dealing with children or unreasonable and immature adults, it is often more appropriate to address the matter more quickly and efficiently in a way they'll likely understand.

I would think that quite backward. The immature and children need more explanation than those who are more mature and wiser.

I would think that quite backward. The immature and children need more explanation than those who are more mature and wiser.

It's not a question of giving them what they need. It's giving them what you can within the contraints of their comprehension abilities and the time available.

Good exists. Evil is the absence of good rather than good in itself, however. Ethics and morality are a natural product of our God-given abilities of reason and logic.
Except that reason and logic necessarily lead to the absence of moral knowledge.

I have no evidence that good or evil are even meaningful words.

Oh, and I can't respond to the poll because there's no option denoting uncertainty.

My belief:

God exists and anything He makes or commands is good. Evil is anything contrary to God or against God. It does not exist in itself any more than darkness exists or cold exists. It is a word used to describe the absence of the other: evil is a word describing the absence of good.

which one has the energy that exists molecules that vibrate or molecules that dont? who's to say? you can only make arbitary comments on it.

physics states that it's energy that exists and cold/lack of acceleration/darkness is lack of energy but all of physics would still work if it was stated that warmth/light/acceleration were the lack of energy instead

what i'm trying to say is a world where evil is the lack of good and one where good is the lack of evil would be exactly the same in all but the most incomprehensible of ways and whether evil is the lack of good or vice versa doesn't matter at all

which one has the energy that exists molecules that vibrate or molecules that dont? who's to say? you can only make arbitary comments on it.

physics states that it's energy that exists and cold/lack of acceleration/darkness is lack of energy but all of physics would still work if it was stated that warmth/light/acceleration were the lack of energy instead

what i'm trying to say is a world where evil is the lack of good and one where good is the lack of evil would be exactly the same in all but the most incomprehensible of ways and whether evil is the lack of good or vice versa doesn't matter at all

In Christian theology, it most certainly matters! If God is truly the Creator and the source of all and if all that comes from Him is good, then it must be the thing which truly exists.

Someone said this 'In the sense that certain actions lead to more happyness in the world while others lead to more misery - yes.
But as universal laws ? No."

That can't be true. if it were true, what ould determine weather the action led to happiness or misery. An action can have multiple effects on multiple people. If there were no universal law, the world would be caos. good and evil cannot be circumstantual.

Ex. someone murders a rapist. is that good or evil? mudering the rapist would make a lot of people happy, it would also make his family/ friends miserable. so yes- shooting the rapist was evil. that doesn't mean that the muderer goes to hell, just that they are responsible on for murdering someone in

In an absolute sense? No.
In that society imposes a kind of good/evil scale based on the views of the majority? Yes.

So a combination of the bottom 2 answers (I actually voted for the middle one).

There is no place for good and evil...

















...in the Farmy Dome!

I'm pretty sure I love you.

Do good and evil exist?


Define good and evil. If we use classical Greek definitions, namely Aristotelean and Platonic philosophy, that which is good is that which is not lacking, and that which is evil is that which is flawed.

Thus, an evil action is that which is lacking some good.

For example, in the case of eating. The purpose of eating is the sustenence of the body. However, gluttony perverts that aim. It lacks the foresaid good. It is an evil action.

Thus, good and evil exist even in the context of natural law.

We can go a step further and say that, because God is All-Good, that a good action is that which is directed towards God, and an evil action is that which is not.

Faith is a great virtue.
Faithlessness is a great evil.

See?

Good exists. Evil is the absence of good rather than good in itself, however.

Good is the absence of evil rather than a thing in itself.

Yes. goof and ebil are present in all actions, people, and society. But goof and ebil are only a certain point of view and you could probably spend a lifetime debating what is and is not without coming to a conclusion or accomplishing anything.