NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm
major retailers, including Wal-Mart and Walgreen Co., are now dumping "Happy holidays" for "Merry Christmas" and piping in religious Christmas carols.
It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

Championed by a couple of commercial, disgusting retailers.

There is no war on Christmas.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

Wait, you're quoting a gay newspaper?

Also Wal-Mart is the pimp to the cheap whore that is Christmas, they'll dress that bitch up however they think will bring in the business.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

You do realize, that in the end, it doesn't matter what jingles they play in teh stores?

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

You're funny.

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season:

mmm yes, that would be the pagan celebration, yeah?

Yes, I agree that Christmas is too commercial these days, but it's surely the height of irony that you're celebrating wal-mart.

Speaking of the giving season, here's a great way to celebrate your holiday with your family:

www.heifer.org

I can't think of a better feeling to have on Christmas morning knowing that somewhere in the world a family is better off because you were kind enough to purchase a cow for them.

Not only did your purchase a cow, mind you, you also purchased training so that family knows how to take good care of their cow.

:D

I don't see why people want to change a formula that worked so well for so long. Just call it Christmas and grow up. Because if it's not Christmas, there's no point in having holidays and we might as well all go back to work.

Speaking of the giving season, here's a great way to celebrate your holiday with your family:

www.heifer.org

I can't think of a better feeling to have on Christmas morning knowing that somewhere in the world a family is better off because you were kind enough to purchase a cow for them.

Not only did your purchase a cow, mind you, you also purchased training so that family knows how to take good care of their cow.

Thanks for promoting this. It's a much more worthwhile thing to do than giving your friends some useless gizmo that will be of little value to anyone.

Many NGO charities around the world organise such animal gifts, so check out your local. I think Oxfam do it.

Ireland: www.gorta.ie

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

Commericalism comes right out of right wing conservativism. Either you reject both or you're back to square one.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.
first off, you're celebrating that the top whore of commercialism and consumerism is helping to remind us of Jesus. They aren't. They are trying to make a better profit.
Second of all, it is a Pagan holiday. Christians bastardized it first. In case you missed the lecture, Christ wasn't born in December.

We need a war on stupid.

http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/mlib/616/11/616_1163624588.mp3

I don't see why people want to change a formula that worked so well for so long. Just call it Christmas and grow up. Because if it's not Christmas, there's no point in having holidays and we might as well all go back to work.

Yeah, screw Chanukkah, Yuletide, or any of those other holidays they had before Christmas.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

The only people waging the war on Christmas is Christians. Christmas is a remarkably pagan holiday, you do know that?

Not to mention that there are loads of Holidays in this particular time of the year, such as Hanakah, Kwanza, and New Years, and so as to get them all in one go, we say "Happy Holidays", which literally means "Holy Day". So, since Christmas is a "Holy Day", "Happy Holidays" is a perfect way to say it.

And Christmas is one of the most horribly commercialized holidays in existance. Which has nothing to do with "The War on Christmas", as some have called it.

Why this insistence on imposing christianity on what is essentially a pagan winter festival?

Wait, you're quoting a gay newspaper?

Also Wal-Mart is the pimp to the cheap whore that is Christmas, they'll dress that bitch up however they think will bring in the business.

Being a Christian, I am happy that Merry Christmas is included in the Holiday greetings(A K-mart I go to, has Stars of David next to Noels--I find that nice), that being said...the quote above is completely correct.

The war on Christmas is being waged primarily by Christians who have allowed the Commercialization of their Holiday commemorating the Birth if the Messiah.

Wla-Mart did not change their policy in support of Christians, or not being so obnoxiously politically correct as "Happy Holidays" blah...they did it because they lost money doing the "Happy Holidays" thing....I know MUslims who stopped going to Wal-Mart because of the "Happy Holidays" thing....as it went from a Christian phrase to a Godless one...that aside....I must repeat, the above quote is very correct in the scheme of American Society.

Why must you be such a troll about Christianity Redemption Army? There is nothing Christian in your arrogance.

I don't see why people want to change a formula that worked so well for so long. Just call it Christmas and grow up. Because if it's not Christmas, there's no point in having holidays and we might as well all go back to work.

What...we need Jesus to celebrate light, friends, and family? Sorry, no. Christians, as we all know, changed it first. I say we go back to Yule. It was more fun then, without the whole persecution complex.

Yeah, screw Chanukkah, Yuletide, or any of those other holidays they had before Christmas.

Yeah, but this is the first one that anybody bothered making a big deal out of.

What...we need Jesus to celebrate light, friends, and family? Sorry, no. Christians, as we all know, changed it first. I say we go back to Yule. It was more fun then, without the whole persecution complex.

Yule doesn't have the same ring to it.

What...we need Jesus to celebrate light, friends, and family? Sorry, no. Christians, as we all know, changed it first. I say we go back to Yule. It was more fun then, without the whole persecution complex.

I gotta go drop a big fat Yule Log! :)

Why this insistence on imposing christianity on what is essentially a pagan winter festival?

Why cant it be more then one Holiday, who says only one religion gets it?

I dont see you bitching about Judaism.

I gotta go drop a big fat Yule Log! :)

Is that like a Swiss Colony Beef Log?

Yule doesn't have the same ring to it.

Ah, but a Yule Ball just sounds magical. ;)

I don't see why people want to change a formula that worked so well for so long. Just call it Christmas and grow up. Because if it's not Christmas, there's no point in having holidays and we might as well all go back to work.


Umm.... because it's the holiday season?

Hannukah isn't Christmas. Kwanzaa isn't Christmas. Nor are Thanksgiving or the New Year. Retailers started referring to the "Holiday Season" to promote all holidays around this time of year.

Umm.... because it's the holiday season?

Hannukah isn't Christmas. Kwanzaa isn't Christmas. Nor are Thanksgiving or the New Year. Retailers started referring to the "Holiday Season" to promote all holidays around this time of year.

Yeah, but none of those have any ring to them. Besides, the only real one up there is Hannukah. Kwanzaa is made up, and Thanksgiving is some weird American crap.

Umm.... because it's the holiday season?

Hannukah isn't Christmas. Kwanzaa isn't Christmas. Nor are Thanksgiving or the New Year. Retailers started referring to the "Holiday Season" to promote all holidays around this time of year.

Evil retailers. ;)

Is that like a Swiss Colony Beef Log?

yeah, but it's fatter and shorter and hurts more coming out. It does, though, leave you feeling very satisfied when you look down to see what you did. :)

yeah, but it's fatter and shorter and hurts more coming out. It does, though, leave you feeling very satisfied when you look down to see what you did. :)
And in the end, isn't that the true meaning of Christmas?

Well, I think two pages of this is enough. What say we leave RA to gnaw his fingers in the dark and go have some eggnog or cookies or mulled wine or cider? :D

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

YOU celebrate the birth of jesus

*I* celebrate...well nothing but the fun of decorating the house, making great food, giving and receiving presents with family and friends.

Does it really matter if someone wishes me happy holidays or merry christmas? No it doesn't. Not at all. They are just words. Its not taking your fucking religous freedoms away. Its just WORDS. They could tell you "Thanks for shopping at walmart, no go fuck off", so be grateful they even are nice to you period.

And in the end, isn't that the true meaning of Christmas?

Exactly. I'm thinking of bronzing it, wrapping it up and giving it to my nephew. I'm sure he'll enjoy it much more than the Playstation 3 I was going to give him. :)

At what point is this classified as spam and drive-by trolling?

Well, I think two pages of this is enough. What say we leave RA to gnaw his fingers in the dark and go have some eggnog or cookies or mulled wine or cider? :D

And I can bring my Yule Log for show and tell with you guys! ;)

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm
It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

And now on Multiland News, it's time for: HISTORY CHECK!

That's right, this is the porgramme that listens to people then gives you CORRECT facts!

FACT NUMBER ONE: Christmas has roots in... Paganism! That's right, Paganism. Christians later chose it to be the date they would celebrate the birth of Christmas.
http://100777.com/spiritual/xmass

FACT NUMBER TWO: Christmas was originally called "Mass of Christ"! Actually makes sense when you think about it doesn't it? But what did the Mass of Christ celebrate? The resurection? The Light of the Lord? No - Jesus's death! That's right, the Saviour's death! According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, 'mass' is a form of sacrifice ('sacrifice of the mass') which means, every time you say "Merry Christmas", you are actually saying "Merry Christ's sacrifice", or "Merry sacrifice of Christ"! http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm

FACT NUMBER THREE: Santa Claus doesn't exist! It may be true that there was once a guy called Saint Nicholas (who may have earned the name "Father Christmas") who went around giving presents to people, but he would have long-since died.

And finally...

FACT NUMBER FOUR: Telling your kids to believe strongly in a completely made-up being, so strongly that they are devastated when they find out he doesn't exist, is actually pretty fucking sick!

Wal-Mart is the pimp to the cheap whore that is Christmas, they'll dress that bitch up however they think will bring in the business.

That has got to be the Quote of the Week (ROTFL!) Can I use this in my signature----with appropriate credit, of course? (Still laughing!)



:D

Speaking of the giving season, here's a great way to celebrate your holiday with your family:

www.heifer.org

I can't think of a better feeling to have on Christmas morning knowing that somewhere in the world a family is better off because you were kind enough to purchase a cow for them.

Not only did your purchase a cow, mind you, you also purchased training so that family knows how to take good care of their cow.

:D

As much as I think charities do a lot of amazing work, sending a cow is one of THE WORST ways of attempting to 'help' people that I can think of: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_veggie/ALL/212/

That has got to be the Quote of the Week (ROTFL!) Can I use this in my signature----with appropriate credit, of course? (Still laughing!)



:D

Knock yourself out, I rather enjoyed writing it.

but the war on duplicate threads is a failure. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=509666)

And now on Multiland News, it's time for: HISTORY CHECK!

That's right, this is the porgramme that listens to people then gives you CORRECT facts!

FACT NUMBER ONE: Christmas has roots in... Paganism! That's right, Paganism. Christians later chose it to be the date they would celebrate the birth of Christmas.
http://100777.com/spiritual/xmass

FACT NUMBER TWO: Christmas was originally called "Mass of Christ"! Actually makes sense when you think about it doesn't it? But what did the Mass of Christ celebrate? The resurection? The Light of the Lord? No - Jesus's death! That's right, the Saviour's death! According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, 'mass' is a form of sacrifice ('sacrifice of the mass') which means, every time you say "Merry Christmas", you are actually saying "Merry Christ's sacrifice", or "Merry sacrifice of Christ"! http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm

FACT NUMBER THREE: Santa Claus doesn't exist! It may be true that there was once a guy called Saint Nicholas (who may have earned the name "Father Christmas") who went around giving presents to people, but he would have long-since died.
!:eek: :( Thats not true. It can't be. Prove he doesn't exist!!;)

Yule doesn't have the same ring to it.

Never heard the phrases "yule-tide cheer" or "yule log" have you?

Personally, I find it much easier to say and nicer sounding than "Christmas", which, when you think about it, is a really depressing term.

:eek: :( Thats not true. It can't be. Prove he doesn't exist!!;)

There are loads of children (persons under 13) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, . At an average (estimated) rate of 2.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, and then, assuming east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, distribute the presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him to get back up the chimney into the sleigh and get onto the next house.

Can all that be done in so little time?

People are who claim that there is a "war on Christmas" are just plain insecure bout their own faith. If you celebrate the birth of Christ, then celebrate it, it doesn't matter what signs the stores have at the front, it doesn't change anything of what YOU believe in.

People are who claim that there is a "war on Christmas" are just plain insecure bout their own faith. If you celebrate the birth of Christ, then celebrate it, it doesn't matter what signs the stores have at the front, it doesn't change anything of what YOU believe in.

It's not about personal faith, it's about making everyone else believe the same thing.

As much as I think charities do a lot of amazing work, sending a cow is one of THE WORST ways of attempting to 'help' people that I can think of: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_veggie/ALL/212/

Well, it's not just cows you see. It's also poultry, swine, and so on. I think Heifer International probably puts more thought into where they send their livestock. Though I could be wrong. This is just the charity my family uses to celebrate Christmas, maybe we'll find a better one some day. :D

It's not about personal faith, it's about making everyone else believe the same thing.

So when someone sees the words Merry Christmas on the storefront, they all of a sudden become Christian? Or if they see Happy Chanukah, they're Jewish? Common now, people should be free to say whatever they want, and put up whatever sign they wish. Theres a difference between freedom of expression and preaching your beliefs onto others.

So when someone sees the words Merry Christmas on the storefront, they all of a sudden become Christian? Or if they see Happy Chanukah, they're Jewish? Common now, people should be free to say whatever they want, and put up whatever sign they wish. Theres a difference between freedom of expression and preaching your beliefs onto others.

That's the thing, though: most people confuse the concept. They're okay with speech they like. It's when they hear speech they don't like they get up in arms against it, which is saddening, because the whole IDEA is to protect speech you DON'T like.

That's the thing, though: most people confuse the concept. They're okay with speech they like. It's when they hear speech they don't like they get up in arms against it, which is saddening, because the whole IDEA is to protect speech you DON'T like.

Exactly. Tis unfortunate that we can't just accept the fact that people have different opinions, and not have to prove how the other is wrong.

So when someone sees the words Merry Christmas on the storefront, they all of a sudden become Christian? Or if they see Happy Chanukah, they're Jewish? Common now, people should be free to say whatever they want, and put up whatever sign they wish. Theres a difference between freedom of expression and preaching your beliefs onto others.

I think you missed some sarcasm. At least, I hope you did...

I think you missed some sarcasm. At least, I hope you did...

Perahps. :p

Never heard the phrases "yule-tide cheer" or "yule log" have you?

Personally, I find it much easier to say and nicer sounding than "Christmas", which, when you think about it, is a really depressing term.

Indeed. In Swedish it's still called "Jul" (pronounced very much like "Yule"), even by Christians, which makes that whole debate in the US seem even more silly.

http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/not_this_shit_again.jpg














...hey, it had to be said.

http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/not_this_shit_again.jpg














...hey, it had to be said.

I agree!

Also, this seems pertinent, though it need not be directed at anyone.

You know.

To avoid flaming.

<.< >.>

Mods are scary.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c220/Jeffhh/NapDynaPoster.jpg

Yeah, but this is the first one that anybody bothered making a big deal out of.

So festivals, feasts, ceremonies, and decorating temples isn't a big deal?

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.
I thought that the birth of the 'real' Jesus was actually in April or something, and that Christmas was put on the 25th of December to replace a pagan festival...

Finally, tables turn in war on christmas
That's what you think, really its just a feint while the Democrats prepare a flanking ma-
*claps hand over mouth*
Oops, I've said too much.

http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/not_this_shit_again.jpg
http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/not_this_shit_again.jpg

That's what you think, really its just a feint while the Democrats prepare a flanking ma-
*claps hand over mouth*
Oops, I've said too much.
Not until a perfect surgical strike is executed by those evil femina-

Oh no! Secret revealed!

FACT NUMBER THREE: Santa Claus doesn't exist! It may be true that there was once a guy called Saint Nicholas (who may have earned the name "Father Christmas") who went around giving presents to people, but he would have long-since died.

Did you really just post a fact that Santa Claus is doesn't exist?

So when someone sees the words Merry Christmas on the storefront, they all of a sudden become Christian? Or if they see Happy Chanukah, they're Jewish? Common now, people should be free to say whatever they want, and put up whatever sign they wish. Theres a difference between freedom of expression and preaching your beliefs onto others.

Then there should be no problem with signs saying "Happy Holidays", and we shouldn't have to hear from uppity Christians pissing about the "War on Christmas." Right?

As much as I think charities do a lot of amazing work, sending a cow is one of THE WORST ways of attempting to 'help' people that I can think of: http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/pr_veggie/ALL/212/
That has some good points, why didn't I think of that? Buy them water instead.

I declare war on Easter and Passover. Just to be difficult.

I declare war on Easter and Passover. Just to be difficult.

Fine, then I declare war on May Day. ;)

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.
I honestly crack up every time I see this stuff, because for most of my childhood the "War On Christmas" refered to the commercialization of Christmas. Christians were furious that stores were using their Lord's Birthday to sell toasters and shoes, and they wanted to see this insulting trend stop. They protested, they marched, they wrote angry letters to the editor about how Macy's better stop blaspheming OR ELSE.

I like this current War on Christmas much more. I like seeing superstition shoved completely out of the picture, and I really love that we are reinforcing the fact that Christmas is a secular, consumer holiday that has nothing to do with anybody's God. I like that Christmas is becoming a holiday where everybody comes together to celebrate the birth of Santa and eat far too much peppermint.

So thank you, Christian soldiers, for doing all the work for me! :D

I thought that the birth of the 'real' Jesus was actually in April or something, and that Christmas was put on the 25th of December to replace a pagan festival...
Yes. The Mass of Christ was assigned to December 25th so that the Pagans and the Christians could have a holiday together.

Pretty much every "Christmas" tradition that Americans know and love comes from non-Christian sources.

Here's something I posted on my blog last year about this very subject:

I was reared by a Unitarian (since lapsed) and a lapsed Presbyterian (so thoroughly lapsed that I thought he was a lapsed Jew until he read this post and corrected me). I have observed a range of winter holidays, from the Winter Solstice to Christmas to Hanukah to Pancha Ganapati, and more. However, Christmas is definitely the holiday my family has observed most consistently.

As a child, I thought this was because Christmas was "normal" and we were being "normal" by doing what everybody else was doing. As I got older, I realized two things: first of all, that our celebration of Christmas was not really "normal" by many standards. Secondly, my mother (the organizer and instigator of most major family events) had a very clear reason for liking Christmas.

I think you will understand both of these revelations of mine if I share with you the Christmas story as I learned it.*


"Mommy, what does Christmas mean?"

Once upon a time, there were Christians but no Christmas. Before there was Christmas, there was the feast of Epiphany. It was a celebration of how the Christian God 'shone forth' to mankind in human form, as the baby Jesus. It was held on January 6th. However, in the 4th century CE--

("Were you born then, Daddy?" "Coal in your stocking, kid.")

--in the 4th century, some Christian leaders decided to celebrate Jesus' birthday on December 25th.

("Why, Mommy?" "Be quiet and I'll tell you.")

Alongside the Christians, there lived a people called the Pagans, and the Pagans celebrated the holiday of the winter solstice on December 25th. The Mass of Christ was assigned to December 25th so that the Pagans and the Christians could have a holiday together. Over time, the Christians to the West came to celebrate Christmas, while those in the East continued to celebrate Epiphany, and this gave some people the idea of having a 12-day festival connecting the two. This is why we sing, "The 12 Days Of Christmas."

("Why don't we have Christmas for 12 days?" "Because Mommy doesn't want to have to bake that many cookies.")


"Why do we have a tree for Christmas?"

In the deep of Scandanavian winter, the sun disappears for many days in a row. After it had been dark for over a month, the people would send scounts into the mountains see if they could catch a peek of the sun rising again. When the scounts brought back word of the sun's return there would be a great festival called the Yuletide. This special feast would be held around a fire burning with the Yule log, and other fires would be lit to represent the return of the sun. People would tie apples to the branches of the trees to remind themselves that spring was coming. This is why we decorate our trees with round bulbs, and why some people still decorate their trees with fruit, strings of popcorn, and other real foods.

The Romans also celebrated a winter festival, and theirs was called Saturnalia for their god Saturn. They would have parties in the streets, big meals with lots of friends, and they would exchange presents for good luck. They also decorated their halls with laurel garlands--

("Is that like Laurel and Hardy?" "No, darling, that's like the green stuff Daddy put on the mantlepiece.")

--and they would put up green trees lit with candles. That's why we put garlands around the house and put lights on our trees.


"Why does Uncle Karl always warn me about standing under the mistletoe?"

The Norse people had a goddess named Frigga, who was the Goddess of love, marriage, and fertility. Frigga had a son named Balder who was shot and killed by an arrow made of mistletoe. When Balder was restored to life, Frigga was so happy that she blessed the mistletoe and gave a kiss to anybody who passed under it. Some people believe that each time you kiss under the mistletoe you should pluck one berry from it, and when there are no more berries then there are no more kisses.


"Mommy, is Santa Claus the same thing as Jesus?"**

No, dear. Our Santa Claus is actually a lot of different people rolled up into one. His name comes from the story of Saint Nicholas, a bishop in Turkey who gave presents to the poor, who inspired the Dutch story of Sinterklaas. However, lots of other people have had their own Santas. The Russians have Ded Moroz ("Grandfather Frost"), who delivers presents to children and wears red boots, a fur coat, and a long white beard. A Teutonic god named Odin rode through the air on his eight-legged flying horse, Slepnir, to deliver presents to children. The children would leave a piece of straw out in the field for Slepnir, much like how we leave out milk and cookies for Santa.

("You mean for Daddy." "The kid is onto us, dear.")

Thor, a Germanic god, was also an elderly, plump man in red. He would fly through the air in a chariot drawn by his two white goats, Cracker and Gnasher. He had a palace in "the northland" and would come down the chimney because he was a god of fire.


"Why do we celebrate Christmas, when we aren't Christian?"

Christmas is a holiday that is made up of many different cultures and beliefs. The Christians gave us the name of the holiday. The Romans, the Pagans, and the Scandanavians gave us the decorations and the parties. The Dutch and the Russians and the Norse brought us Santa. Many ancient peoples helped us pick the date for the holiday, as they followed the Sun and the seasons to chart the solstices. When we celebrate Christmas, we are carrying on the traditions of many cultures and many people who have come before us.

We celebrate Christmas because winter can be dark and cold, and we need to remember warmth and brightness and joy. Christmas reminds us that life is still strong even in the dead of winter. Christmas also gives us a chance to celebrate with our loved ones, and a chance to give gifts and thanks to the people who have made our lives brighter.



*Please keep in mind that this is the kiddy version, and does not include the economic and political forces that have so thoroughly hijacked the American holiday season. We all know that the real meaning of Christmas is to support the economy by buying things you neither need nor can afford, and that anybody who doesn't do so is a godless Communist.

**I actually did ask this question, as I suspect many American children do, and I was secretly confused as to why Christians worshipped Jesus when Santa was the one who brought the presents.

I honestly crack up every time I see this stuff, because for most of my childhood the "War On Christmas" refered to the commercialization of Christmas. Christians were furious that stores were using their Lord's Birthday to sell toasters and shoes, and they wanted to see this insulting trend stop. They protested, they marched, they wrote angry letters to the editor about how Macy's better stop blaspheming OR ELSE.

I like this current War on Christmas much more. I like seeing superstition shoved completely out of the picture, and I really love that we are reinforcing the fact that Christmas is a secular, consumer holiday that has nothing to do with anybody's God. I like that Christmas is becoming a holiday where everybody comes together to celebrate the birth of Santa and eat far too much peppermint.

So thank you, Christian soldiers, for doing all the work for me! :D

Onward Christian soldiers,
Onwards buddhist priests!
Onwards Fruits of Islam,
Fight till you're deceased

Tables turned on the War on Christmas? Did Jesus send a cruise missile Santa's way or something?

I don't see why people want to change a formula that worked so well for so long. Just call it Christmas and grow up. Because if it's not Christmas, there's no point in having holidays and we might as well all go back to work.

Yuletide greeting to you.

fuck jesus, and all this commercialized religious crap. MHO.

Onward Christian soldiers,
Onwards buddhist priests!
Onwards Fruits of Islam,
Fight till you're deceased

agree, they all can eat shit, drop dead, and die.

agree, they all can eat shit, drop dead, and die.

"I'M LASHING OUT BECAUSE I NEED TO ASSERT MYSELF AS A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE!!!!"

I don't know who frustrates me more, non-christians who attack Christmas because of some fallacy that it's a religious holiday, or christians who insist it's their religious holiday. I lean toward the christians because they're the ones who keep the fallacy alive.

Christmas, ignoring the consumer whoring of it, is a celebration of the ideal of Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. It is an amalgam of several related pagan, christian and secular traditions all of which reinforce that prime ideal. Is that such a horrible thing to celebrate? Hmm?

What about Jesus Christ? It's named after him? So? Whether you're christian or not, recognize that Jesus Christ was symbolic of the ideal of christmas. He's just part of the amalgam. I'd love it if deluded christians would silence their nonsense of Christ being born on Christmas Day. I'd be tickled pink if they'd stop trying to claim it as a religious holiday and let it become the celebration of something Real and Meaningful.

As a christian myself, I rarely find myself as frustrated with other christians than at this time of year; They're ruining Christmas. :(

...snipped big long, nicely written, a good read, of how Christmas developed various aspects of the holiday celebration we see today post...

It is without a doubt true that Christmas is a hodgepodge of celebrations, individual aspects from different places. However, Christians did not steal these things and make it their own. Romans, Pagans, Scandinavians etc., BECAME Christians and brought their own holiday methodologies with them. Pagans became Christians, Romans became Christians, and Scandinavians became Christians too. They didn't steal what was rightly their own already. Why does one have to give up their cultural and family heritage simply because they became Christians? They do not, but they do decide to incorporate Jesus into their cultural practices themselves. You can pretend it was forced on them against their will, but was not.

When Christianity was spread and growing around the world two thousand to a five hundred years ago, and the people were going to have big meals and celebrations with family anyway, saying grace and thanking God for the food and the opportunity to do so, they celebrated the God they believed in, despite who their grandparents used to pray to, they were now Christians and now they prayed and Thank God in a Christian way ...

Fine, then I declare war on May Day. ;)

Hehe yeah all fine Pagan Holy days.

Yes. The Mass of Christ was assigned to December 25th so that the Pagans and the Christians could have a holiday together. *snip*


Ah, Bottle, you make it sound so nice and ecumenical. The early Church, especially after it took over the Empire in the 4th century, had no desire to celebrate a holiday in December along with the nice Pagans. I can't recall why it was decided that Christmas should fall in December, except perhaps to undermine the old Roman holiday of the Saturnalia. It was certainly not to make nice with the Pagans. As the 4th and 5th centuries progressed, the Church, through the secular power of the Empire, made Pagans less and less able to exercise their religion by closing temples and forbidding sacrifices and by requiring what we would call religious tests before they could hold office.

Of course, as the Pagans converted and became Christians, they did bring along their customs, as Pootwaddle pointed out.

fuck jesus, and all this commercialized religious crap. MHO.

MHO Umm My Own Hole?(yes i'm dyslexic)

MHO Umm My Own Hole?(yes i'm dyslexic)

My Humble Opinion.

My Humble Opinion.

Ahhh many thansk to you, yes that does make more sense.

Championed by a couple of commercial, disgusting retailers.



There's nothing wrong with 'commercial', either.

Folks we as a group are talking apples and oranges here. Christians see Christmas as Jesus' birthday regardless. The non christians see Christmas as a holiday on which you exchange gifts. While I personally fall on the Christian side of the discussion I think we should just agree to disagree and get on with the season in our own way. Because participating in endless arguements accomplish nothing.

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season:
Saturnalia, Bacchinalia, and Juvenalia. As well as the solstice.

What--you really think that it's about jesus? How little you know of the REAL history of the holiday.

Saturnalia, Bacchinalia, and Juvenalia. As well as the solstice.

What--you really think that it's about jesus? How little you know of the REAL history of the holiday.

Or Christianity and its assimilation of the Pagan traditions.

http://www.newyorkblade.com/2006/12-4/viewpoint/opinion/war.cfm

It gladdens me to see that we are finally starting to remember the reason for this season: the birth of our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, not this commercial, secular, disgusting thing the holidays have become.

It saddens me to think that we have yet to remember the reason for this season: to indulge in all manner of excess in order to bring the return of the Sun. We celebrate the Saturnalia, not this stoic, pious, disgusting thing that Christians have forced upon us.