NationStates Jolt Archive

It looks like our MPs are not satisfied with their current trough so now they are demanding a much bigger one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6205852.stm

Are there any other countries whose democrtic representitives demanding/ have demanded such a large increase?

Are there any other countries whose democrtic representitives demanding/ have demanded such a large increase?
The Congress doesn't demand it, Congress just keeps voting themselves large raises.

Heck, they did it during this session of Congress, again!

This makes me want to be a politician.

I think its quite fair considering the important job they do

Thats one HUGE increase

In October it was revealed that average expenses and allowances claims had hit £86.8m, or an average of £131,000 per MP.

What?! :mad:

How the hell do they rack up £131,000 a year in expenses? I'd be hard pushed to spend that much in a year in total (excluding, for example, buying a house).

Just shoot them all and replace them with jackasses. We will not only get pleasure from removing the scum, but we will also notice big improvements in the government.

What?! :mad:

How the hell do they rack up £131,000 a year in expenses? I'd be hard pushed to spend that much in a year in total (excluding, for example, buying a house).
Well, to be fair to them their expenses usually include the running of their electoral offices - so rent, utilities and at least one secretary's salary would be included in there.
Then there's their junket trips. Obviously they need to fly first class - flying economy would just have them being spat on repeatedly by other passengers.

For conservative MPs, the expenses would also include rentboys and the like. Those greedy little buggers (literal term here, too!) don't 'come' cheap!

Just put in the constitution that an MPs salary may only be x times minimum wage. That way they can't make large increases without destroying the economy..
Well ok, maybe that won't stop them

What?! :mad:

How the hell do they rack up £131,000 a year in expenses? I'd be hard pushed to spend that much in a year in total (excluding, for example, buying a house).

Two biggies:

1. If they live outside of London they get a huge allowance to put towards the cost of buying a property in London. They do not have to return the money or sell the property once they are voted out. It is really tens of thousands of pounds a year extra cash. I think the government should just invest in 600odd decent quality houses in London and use these to house MPs, and when you get voted out you get evicted from the house. Expensive to start with, but much cheaper than giving them all £20,000 a year. Every year. Forever.

2. They are allowed to employ a staff for admin and the like. Many MPs 'employ' their husband/wife and any kids over 18 as their 'staff' on very generous wages considering the work they are theoretically doing.

Well, to be fair to them their expenses usually include the running of their electoral offices - so rent, utilities and at least one secretary's salary would be included in there.
Then there's their junket trips. Obviously they need to fly first class - flying economy would just have them being spat on repeatedly by other passengers.
They should be made to fly on EasyJet, and banned from having the front row on those planes.

Even with the running of the electoral office, I still don't see how they could spend, say, £50,000 a year on justifiable expenses.

For conservative MPs, the expenses would also include rentboys and the like. Those greedy little buggers (literal term here, too!) don't 'come' cheap!
That's the Lib Dems as well.

It looks like our MPs are not satisfied with their current trough so now they are demanding a much bigger one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6205852.stm

Are there any other countries whose democrtic representitives demanding/ have demanded such a large increase?
NZ MPs regularly vote themselves massive raises - though not as bad as 66% in one hit.
The NZ PM, iirc, is one of the hjighest paid leaders in the World. There's only a handful who are paid more. Considering NZ's population and GDP, it's pretty criminal, imo (and indeed in most Kiwi's opines).

Sometimes, if there's too much public ire towards their self-imposed salry hikes, One or two make the symbolic gesture by donating their pay rise to charity. It gets them on the front page for a couple of days. Not sure how long they keep it up for, though.

They should be made to fly on EasyJet, and banned from having the front row on those planes.
That's downright nasty, considering the sort that use EasyJet. Mostly chavs if that tv show anything's to go by. Poor MPs would barely get out of the plane alive :)

Even with the running of the electoral office, I still don't see how they could spend, say, £50,000 a year on justifiable expenses.
Don't get me wrong, I was trying to show some of their expenses are justified.
I do think £130k is criminal. That's almost 6 times the average wage in the UK, just for their expenses.

That's the Lib Dems as well.
Forgot about the Lib Dems. Them as well.
Who was the dirty sod who was getting his rent boys to crap their pants and taking said gruds home with him? A lib or a tory?

If you want MPs to live on their MPs' salary you are probably going to have to pay them more.
Well, shit. The poor little bastards have to survive on £60,277 per annum. How do they do it? Heroes all! *Wipes tear from eye, thinking about how altruistic MPs are*

I'm sorry, I survive perfectly happily on £14,250 a year, and have money left over to spend on frivolous things. I don't see why MPs need such a huge income, especially when it's plus expenses.
Actually, I think all MPs, councillors etcetera that get paid should get minimum wage. They're not in it for the money, after all. They're in it to make the country a better place and to Do The Right Thing. Right?

That's downright nasty, considering the sort that use EasyJet. Mostly chavs if that tv show anything's to go by. Poor MPs would barely get out of the plane alive :)

A plan with no drawbacks...
I've flown on EasyJet and they're perfectly good.

Two biggies:

1. If they live outside of London they get a huge allowance to put towards the cost of buying a property in London. They do not have to return the money or sell the property once they are voted out. It is really tens of thousands of pounds a year extra cash. I think the government should just invest in 600odd decent quality houses in London and use these to house MPs, and when you get voted out you get evicted from the house. Expensive to start with, but much cheaper than giving them all £20,000 a year. Every year. Forever.
About 100 MPs live in or very near London, so they wouldn't need one. Plus, cabinet members get a free house in London - and there's 19 of them (not including Blair and Brown) who don't have constituencies in/near London. So we're down to about 500 already.

It would be more sensible to buy 600+ houses, but papers like the Daily Mail would still complain about 'wasting' £150 million of taxpayers' money.

2. They are allowed to employ a staff for admin and the like. Many MPs 'employ' their husband/wife and any kids over 18 as their 'staff' on very generous wages considering the work they are theoretically doing.
So they're corrupt? Who'd've thunk it...

Yup. It's a representative 'democracy' as long as you earn over three times the national average. And they [MPs] all wonder why we in the UK are so cynical and hate the fuckers...

Well, shit. The poor little bastards have to survive on £60,277 per annum. How do they do it? Heroes all! *Wipes tear from eye, thinking about how altruistic MPs are*

I'm sorry, I survive perfectly happily on £14,250 a year, and have money left over to spend on frivolous things. I don't see why MPs need such a huge income, especially when it's plus expenses.
Actually, I think all MPs, councillors etcetera that get paid should get minimum wage. They're not in it for the money, after all. They're in it to make the country a better place and to Do The Right Thing. Right?
£14250? *dreams of having that much* :p

Seriously, though. What's the current level of relative poverty in this country? About £12k a year, isn't it? And MPs get £60k + average expenses of £131k. They're public fucking servants. They should be thankful they even qualify for the top tier of income tax.

Edit: That made me think of something - are MPs expenses tax-free, by any chance?

Thats one HUGE increase

It hasn't happened yet, it is just a group of MPs saying they should get paid similar to civil servents and GPs (i.e. your local doctor), both doing much more valable work (GPs saving people and civil servents are the ones who actually run the country).

The prime minister is opposed to this I believe, if he isn't then it is electoral suicide, as he is breaking the link between civil servent wages and MPs.

About 100 MPs live in or very near London, so they wouldn't need one. Plus, cabinet members get a free house in London - and there's 19 of them (not including Blair and Brown) who don't have constituencies in/near London. So we're down to about 500 already.

It would be more sensible to buy 600+ houses, but papers like the Daily Mail would still complain about 'wasting' £150 million of taxpayers' money.

Welll.... They don't have to live far from london at all to qualify for the $$$, I think there are a some MPs within the M25 who qualify for the cash. Maybe 550 houses...

So they're corrupt? Who'd've thunk it...
Oh I am fully aware they're corrupt, I was just helping with the confusion of how an MP can rack up £131,000 in expenses.

Okay, here's my plan for MPs pay:

1. MPs paid the national average per hour, and are paid on an hourly basis in the Commons and a lump daily sum for constituency work on a Friday. If Galloway wants to ponce around in Big Brother, he should get a cut in pay for it.

2. Have a federal government in Westminster cut to 400-500 MPs in the Commons and a Senate of around 150 members.

3. Have bicameral governments in all the home countries with the money saved from 1 and 2.

It hasn't happened yet, it is just a group of MPs saying they should get paid similar to civil servents and GPs (i.e. your local doctor), both doing much more valable work (GPs saving people and civil servents are the ones who actually run the country).

The prime minister is opposed to this I believe, if he isn't then it is electoral suicide, as he is breaking the link between civil servent wages and MPs.
You know GPs can get £150,000 a year for about 10 hours work a week?

£14250? *dreams of having that much* :p
Get a job, you lazy bum! ;)
Seriously, though. What's the current level of relative poverty in this country? About £12k a year, isn't it? And MPs get £60k + average expenses of £131k. They're public fucking servants. They should be thankful they even qualify for the top tier of income tax.

Edit: That made me think of something - are MPs expenses tax-free, by any chance?
I could pay all my bills on minimum wage at 40 hours/week (£11,128pa), and probably have a few quid spare, so no problem there.

I imagine the expenses are tax free (bar VAT and such, anyway). Not that it makes any difference; they get paid out of tax, so they'd just be spending more to pay themselves. The feedback loop there makes my brain hurt.

Okay, here's my plan for MPs pay:

1. MPs paid the national average per hour, and are paid on an hourly basis in the Commons and a lump daily sum for constituency work on a Friday. If Galloway wants to ponce around in Big Brother, he should get a cut in pay for it.

I'm not so bothered by Galloway 'poncing around' on Big Brother. He will get voted out at the next election, guaranteed, and his political career in the UK will be down the drain.

I'm not so bothered by Galloway 'poncing around' on Big Brother. He will get voted out at the next election, guaranteed, and his political career in the UK will be down the drain.
It's more of the principle, though. MPs shouldn't be paid £XXX000 per year regardless of how many hours they put in.

I don't see why MPs need such a huge income, especially when it's plus expenses.
Actually, I think all MPs, councillors etcetera that get paid should get minimum wage. They're not in it for the money, after all. They're in it to make the country a better place and to Do The Right Thing. Right?
One argument they love to trot out is that they would be getting more in the private sector and so we (as in the taxpayers) need to pay them accordingly.

Two things bother me about this:
1. The idea that there's over 600 high-paying jobs in Britain (I mean really high-paying, as in £200K, salary + exp) going begging for a bunch of tossers and wowsers that invariably get themselves elected. I mean, if a business is willing to pay these wankers £200k, why not me, you or indeed anyone? Who is this business, where is it and when can I start? I'll do it for 1/2!

2. The idea that MPs salary needs to be aligned with the private sector. As you said, it should be looked upon as a public service.
I'm a teacher: I needed 4 years of University study to become one. Instead of training to be a teacher, I could have spent those 4 years studying to become a lawyer. Does the fact we need equivalent amount of study mean lawyers and teachers should be paid the same? (leaving aside personal feelings towards the scumbag profession that is lawyer here)
Well, no. I chose to become a teacher because I enjoy teaching and like that I'm helping others: it is a public good. The fact that in doing so meant I chose to forgo other, more lucrative job opportunities is no-ones fault (if you can call it that) but my own.
MPs should feel likewise.


At minimum, they should only get the pay rises that they decide the rest of the public service get.

Get a job, you lazy bum! ;)

I could pay all my bills on minimum wage at 40 hours/week (£11,128pa), and probably have a few quid spare, so no problem there.
I'm almost certainly going to get a job that pays £9737/yr (minimum wage, 35 hours a week). Which will cover all my expenses and leave about £2500 over.

I imagine the expenses are tax free (bar VAT and such, anyway). Not that it makes any difference; they get paid out of tax, so they'd just be spending more to pay themselves. The feedback loop there makes my brain hurt.
But they don't raise their pay if they pay more tax...sadly, some idiots (read: most of the UK population) would be taken in by the theory that if they get paid more and claim more expenses, they're paying more tax back to the country, and it is therefore a Good Thing ((C) 1066 And All That).

You know GPs can get £150,000 a year for about 10 hours work a week?

And those GPs would still be better value in my opinion than the majority of MPs. Some of them work hard, I hate to admit it but that does include many in the cabinet (i.e. not John Prescott).

Why not get rid of those Scottish MPs - they can all vote on English/Welsh/Northern Irish issues but have their own *vastly expensive* parliament - that would cut the wages/housing bill and get rid of the Gordon Brown issue in one fell swoop.

You know GPs can get £150,000 a year for about 10 hours work a week?

Can you cite anything to back this up?

GPs generally have normal office hours and out of hours calls all through the night. And they are now on closer to £100,000 following a new pay system.

I'm almost certainly going to get a job that pays £9737/yr (minimum wage, 35 hours a week). Which will cover all my expenses and leave about £2500 over.

The "get a job" was a joke; I know exactly how much of a pain in the arse jobhunting is. I also know how vexing it is to get a job paying minimum wage when you've spent four years at a decent university getting a Masters degree *grumbles and bitches*.

@Demented Hamsters:
It's probably in everybody's best interest if being an MP isn't as financially rewarding as getting a proper job; that way all the money-grubbing bastards will sod off to the private sector where they belong.

Bah, we should just go back to the days when we didn't pay MPs jack shit. The reward for works as an MP is that you are in the honourable position of representing your fellow countrymen/women/folk/people/whatever.

If they want a wage then they can hold a proper job just like the MPs of old.

At least that would stop all these labour upstarts from getting elected. That or they'd have to pay the unions a bit of respect. Or is there a law still in place that prevent unions from sponsering their members if they are an MP?

It looks like our MPs are not satisfied with their current trough so now they are demanding a much bigger one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6205852.stm

Are there any other countries whose democrtic representitives demanding/ have demanded such a large increase?

At least they have to ask. The U.S. Congress gets its raises automatically. They actually have to vote against the raises.

@Demented Hamsters:
It's probably in everybody's best interest if being an MP isn't as financially rewarding as getting a proper job; that way all the money-grubbing bastards will sod off to the private sector where they belong.
Not really. As I said, they use the whole 'Private sector gets paid more than us' whine to screw more money out of the taxpayer.

The Congress doesn't demand it, Congress just keeps voting themselves large raises.

Heck, they did it during this session of Congress, again!

You're right. That vote to reject the pay raise seemed to go away in 2000.

Well, my MP (Hendon) manages to spend over 100,000 a year JUST on sending out letters. I don't think I trust MPs with that much money.

Well, my MP (Hendon) manages to spend over 100,000 a year JUST on sending out letters. I don't think I trust MPs with that much money.

How? Thats more than a pound for every person he is directly representing in parliment. How many letters did you actually get from him?

MP's are full of Bullsh*t.

The majority of the British population earn wages that cannot cover basic expenses. Many earn less than £15,000, which in my opinion is not enough for anyone to survive on. Houses are almost impossible to get for less than £100,000 (mortgages are usually 3x your salary). There are no/little housing provided for by Local Authorities (waiting lists are years long, and the houses are given to the teenage girls who get themselves impregnated).

Further to this, whilst most companies are offering raises that are below the increase in inflation, including Local Governments (I work for the council and we've been lucky to get a 2.95 raise OVER 2 years, MP's should not be giving themselves this massive increase.

Voters should decide on the salaries.
High voters attract mp's that are not representative of the population.
MP's expenses should be cut in half. The political parties should pay for office staff/researchers in each constituency.
The government should purchase a unit or two of the blocks of apartments that are built for key workers (they are basically bedsits - one room with everything in it and a pull down bed) and the MP can pay rent whilst in office.
It would be perfectly safe for MP's to travel on easyjet/ryanair/trains as no one really recognises them unless they are the PM or the ones that are on the tele/papers all the time.

Democracy doesn't when your Members of parliament can vote their own salaries. I bet they all attend that debate and vote in agreement!,

morons the lot of them

MP's are full of Bullsh*t.

The majority of the British population earn wages that cannot cover basic expenses. Many earn less than £15,000, which in my opinion is not enough for anyone to survive on. Houses are almost impossible to get for less than £100,000 (mortgages are usually 3x your salary). There are no/little housing provided for by Local Authorities (waiting lists are years long, and the houses are given to the teenage girls who get themselves impregnated).

Further to this, whilst most companies are offering raises that are below the increase in inflation, including Local Governments (I work for the council and we've been lucky to get a 2.95 raise OVER 2 years, MP's should not be giving themselves this massive increase.

Voters should decide on the salaries.
High voters attract mp's that are not representative of the population.
MP's expenses should be cut in half. The political parties should pay for office staff/researchers in each constituency.
The government should purchase a unit or two of the blocks of apartments that are built for key workers (they are basically bedsits - one room with everything in it and a pull down bed) and the MP can pay rent whilst in office.
It would be perfectly safe for MP's to travel on easyjet/ryanair/trains as no one really recognises them unless they are the PM or the ones that are on the tele/papers all the time.

Democracy doesn't when your Members of parliament can vote their own salaries. I bet they all attend that debate and vote in agreement!,

morons the lot of them

I like that idea :)

One argument they love to trot out is that they would be getting more in the private sector and so we (as in the taxpayers) need to pay them accordingly.

The only problem with this arguement is that some of them do
earn a lot more from the private sector when they are meant to be representing their constituency. Example, conservative MP Tony Baldry who has some thirteen paid directorships in various companies.

they're paying more tax back to the country, and it is therefore a Good Thing ((C) 1066 And All That).

Lets just hope they suffer from a surfeit

They should get it. They work longer hours, under more scrutiny, than most. Why not recompense them a little?

I might add George Galloway should only be paid in beans. Two beans per annum.

66% is just pushing it. I'll give them 15%, 10% maybe. But 66%? Don't think so.

They should get it. They work longer hours, under more scrutiny, than most. Why not recompense them a little?

Some do, not all. Some (Galloway) rarely ever darken the doors of the HoC.

But to your point. They are meant to be working for the common good (whatever that is), not for they personal gain. If they want to work for there own gain there is a whole private sector for them.

It looks like our MPs are not satisfied with their current trough so now they are demanding a much bigger one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6205852.stm

Are there any other countries whose democrtic representitives demanding/ have demanded such a large increase?
This is a fucking disgrace that shows how corrupt the average Parliament is.

Five years ago the teachers' unions demanded a 5% pay increase. The government ignored the strikes, while giving themselves a 19% pay raise. The average Irish MP currently earns about twice the average annual income for an Irish person.

Five years ago the teachers' unions demanded a 5% pay increase. The government ignored the strikes, while giving themselves a 19% pay raise. The average Irish MP currently earns about twice the average annual income for an Irish person.

Pigs. *snort snort*

This is a fucking disgrace that shows how corrupt the average Parliament is.

Five years ago the teachers' unions demanded a 5% pay increase. The government ignored the strikes, while giving themselves a 19% pay raise. The average Irish MP currently earns about twice the average annual income for an Irish person.
This pay rise will put it to three times the UK average, and that's not even including expenses.

At least your TDs have given you the highest quality of life according to the Economist.:D

This pay rise will put it to three times the UK average, and that's not even including expenses.

At least your TDs have given you the highest quality of life according to the Economist.:DJust 3 times? The median wage in 2004 was £15,500. MPs new wages (£100,000) would be in excess of 6 times that amount.

Man, I wouldn't mess with the MPs in a country that has cameras on every street O.o