NationStates Jolt Archive

So Atlanits. Everyone knows the story of a civilisation that was destroyed and sunk to the bottom of the sa but is it just a story or did it really exist?

Poll Coming

no

and i dont understand the fascination that some people have for this myth.

I've recently been given something the present-giver had dubbed "a flask of mud from Atlantis". For the sake of my happiness and in order for our friendship not to be destroyed by accusations of horrid, deceiving presents, I shall declare it to of course have existed.

It's a myth that probably had its origins in either the eruption at Thera, that destroyed most of the island; or the tsunami that said eruption caused, contributing to the fall of the Minoan civilisation.

So Atlanits. Everyone knows the story of a civilisation that was destroyed and sunk to the bottom of the sa but is it just a story or did it really exist?

Poll ComingYeah, bad bad Stargate spinoff.

If Atlantis exist, i will chop off my balls and eat them for dinner....

Thats how much Atlantis exist

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

I've recently been given something the present-giver had dubbed "a flask of mud from Atlantis". For the sake of my happiness and in order for our friendship not to be destroyed by accusations of horrid, deceiving presents, I shall declare it to of course have existed.

oh you poor thing

did she pay much for it?

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

no. there can be maps of fictional places as well.

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

Gasp! Well Guess i have to go chop my balls off now.....

no. there can be maps of fictional places as well.

Na ah, if its on a map then it exists.

no. there can be maps of fictional places as well.

got humour?

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpgWow. Ancient.

oh you poor thing

did she pay much for it?

I don't know; in my culture, it is bad manners to inquire about the cost of the present you've just been given.

Gasp! Well Guess i have to go chop my balls off now.....
I bet they'd make a nice present for someone, too.

got humour?is that where trees grow in?

So Atlanits. Everyone knows the story of a civilisation that was destroyed and sunk to the bottom of the sa but is it just a story or did it really exist?

Poll Coming

They already found atlantis. it did exist.

See: Minoans

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.


thats a very interesting map. funny how the atlanteans ignored the east coast of north america and focused on the gulf of mexico. guess they werent as smart as they thought!

They already found atlantis. it did exist.

See: MinoansMeh. Minoans don't fit Plato's description.

thats a very interesting map. funny how the atlanteans ignored the east coast of north america and focused on the gulf of mexico. guess they werent as smart as they thought!?? What would be interesting at the east coast of north america?

?? What would be interesting at the east coast of north america?

All of that land for tobacco farming.

Meh. Minoans don't fit Plato's description.

They did. See "Lost Worlds".

Na ah, if its on a map then it exists.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3879/swlocationvn0.png
you'd better start thinking Swilatia is a real country then.

got humour?
yeah? why do you ask?

They did. See "Lost Worlds".No they didn't. See Plato's writings.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3879/swlocationvn0.png
you'd better start thinking Swilatia is a real country then.

Woa, cool. Nice German digs.

If its on a map, then it is real. It's part of the cartographers oath or something.

(And get on gabbly yourself.)

I don't know; in my culture, it is bad manners to inquire about the cost of the present you've just been given.


what a shame. in my culture we are allowed to address the issue in a roundabout way (since some people are very proud of how much or how little they paid for a present) by asking questions like "wow, atlantean mud, wheverever did you get it?" then following up with something like "oh you shouldnt have spent so much on me!" so that the giver has the opportunity to indicate if it was a lot of money or just a token amount.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3879/swlocationvn0.png
you'd better start thinking Swilatia is a real country then.:eek: The second Polish empire??

No they didn't. See Plato's writings.

They DO match up... how do you think they found the place?

BTW, did you READ Plato's writings? Cuz they do put Atlantis (AKA Minoa) on Crete and some nearby islands.

No they didn't. See Plato's writings.

They did. See "Lost Worlds".

Meh. Minoans don't fit Plato's description.

is this just going to keep going in circles?

?? What would be interesting at the east coast of north america?

if you have ever been on the east coast of the US/Canada the answer is obvious.

they also seem to have completely missed the carribean islands. that takes talent.

what a shame. in my culture we are allowed to address the issue in a roundabout way (since some people are very proud of how much or how little they paid for a present) by asking questions like "wow, atlantean mud, wheverever did you get it?" then following up with something like "oh you shouldnt have spent so much on me!" so that the giver has the opportunity to indicate if it was a lot of money or just a token amount.

We do the 'Wherever did you get that?!" as means of expressing that we really like it, and we often say something like "Oh, but that really wasn't necessary!" when someone gives you something unexpected/big/.. , but you don't really want to know how much something was.. which is why I find the currently growing trend to give gift vouchers with the amounf of money detailed sorta disturbing.

if you have ever been on the east coast of the US/Canada the answer is obvious.

they also seem to have completely missed the carribean islands. that takes talent.

Ignoring the fact that noone crossed the Atlantic to reach The New World before the Vikings...

It takes LOADS of talent! More talent than thinking Japan makes the best sushi in all of Africa.

:eek: The second Polish empire??

kind of. right know im's think of whether to invade Austria or Hungary.

They DO match up... how do you think they found the place?

BTW, did you READ Plato's writings? Cuz they do put Atlantis (AKA Minoa) on Crete and some nearby islands.I have read Plato, I actually have Critias on my desk right here. And who found what place?

Depends on what you mean by "Atlantis". If you mean some sort of hyper-advanced super society, then no.

If you mean the folks who lived on San Torini before it blew, then it's quite possible they did.

kind of. right know im's think of whether to invade Austria or Hungary.Hungry. Yeah, I'm going out to get some Pizza now.

if you have ever been on the east coast of the US/Canada the answer is obvious. Yeah right, they completely missed New York.
they also seem to have completely missed the carribean islands. that takes talent.Maybe because of the smell?

kind of. right know im's think of whether to invade Austria or Hungary.

Invade them both then go for the rest of Ukraine

I have read Plato, I actually have Critias on my desk right here. And who found what place?

The host of the show "Lost Worlds" on the History Channel (his name is like Josh Bernstein or something... it's been a little while since the show's last season) figured out that the Atlanteans were actually the Minoan Culture, a very advanced Mediterranean civ existing around that time.

They had indoor toilets! AND plumbing!

kind of. right know im's think of whether to invade Austria or Hungary.You just don't have the guts to go against Russia.

The host of the show "Lost Worlds" on the History Channel (his name is like Josh Bernstein or something... it's been a little while since the show's last season) figured out that the Atlanteans were actually the Minoan Culture, a very advanced Mediterranean civ existing around that time.

They had indoor toilets! AND plumbing!Good, I don't watch tv.

So Atlanits. Everyone knows the story of a civilisation that was destroyed and sunk to the bottom of the sa but is it just a story or did it really exist?

Poll Coming

I do beleive there is a real possibility it did exist.

I do beleive there is a real possibility it did exist.What's the basis for your beleif?

Seems to be a lot of these type of maps..


http://www.collegedowntime.com/funnypictures/images/World_Map.jpg

http://leeds-faculty.colorado.edu/Laguna/funny/worldmap.jpg

You just don't have the guts to go against Russia.

At this time of year you'd have to put Russia in the microwave for, like, 50 minutes to defrost it. That's no fun. I'd imagine he wants food now!

I've recently been given something the present-giver had dubbed "a flask of mud from Atlantis". For the sake of my happiness and in order for our friendship not to be destroyed by accusations of horrid, deceiving presents, I shall declare it to of course have existed.

That's an awesome present idea! *searches for empty flask*

At this time of year you'd have to put Russia in the microwave for, like, 50 minutes to defrost it. That's no fun. I'd imagine he wants food now!Who he? Me? Yes.

Who he? Me? Yes.

Quite.

Seems to be a lot of these type of maps..


http://www.collegedowntime.com/funnypictures/images/World_Map.jpg


crazy americans. we have TV and escalators here in Europe

crazy americans. we have TV and escalators here in Europeyou mean escalations?

crazy americans. we have TV and escalators here in Europe

LoL.

Hey, how did you make that map?

LoL.

Hey, how did you make that map?
what map?

You just don't have the guts to go against Russia.

pah. who needs their frozen wasteland?

pah. who needs their frozen wasteland?It would make a good buffer zone against the evil Amricans further east...

Probably not...

and i dont understand the fascination that some people have for this myth.

seriously, it's not even a real myth. we know the guy who made it up.

It would make a good buffer zone against the evil Amricans further east...

my main targets at the moment are still austria and hungary.

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

you really shouldn't believe everything you read on wikipedia :headbang:

That's an awesome present idea! *searches for empty flask*

Oh noes! I pray for that other disappointed soul way back in Aussieland.

P.S. You can also try the cheap version and put a leaf in a jar, proclaiming it to be the last leaf of the tree Buddha was enlightened under. Same friend, different person to be given a gift..

seriously, it's not even a real myth. we know the guy who made it up.

what myth?

kind of. right know im's think of whether to invade Austria or Hungary.

I think the obvious answer would be to make a new map with a reunited Austro-Hungary and invade that.

I don't see why Atlantis couldn't have existed. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, though.

I imagine it did exist, but it was probably an island civilization that was destroyed by something like a volcanic eruption; the high-tech stuff most likely
didn't exist (although after what I've read on the Antithykera device, I wouldn't rule some of it out).

I don't see why Atlantis couldn't have existed. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, though.

its main problem is that we know that plato made it up

its main problem is that we know that plato made it up

That is definitely a mark against it.

I think the obvious answer would be to make a new map with a reunited Austro-Hungary and invade that.

i'm already busy invading Hungary

Given a sufficiently large multiverse, there will be universes in which some version of Atlantis exists.

That said, this universe isn't one of them.

Here is a theory I have come up with:

During the Ice Age, when sea levels were lower, there was an island west of the straits of Gibraltar. Possibly due to its low-lying terrain, this island, which we shall call Atlantis, possessed a great bounty of wildlife, and the humans who lived there were better off than their mainland counterparts - they had an easier time getting food, so they were healthier and stronger.

When the sea levels rose at the end of the ice age, Atlantis was completely submerged. The legends were exaggerated, and the legendary bounty of Atlantis was blown out of proportion. It was a kind of lost utopia in people's minds. When civilizations developed, the legend changed to that of an advanced civilization.

Now, attached to this legend was a cautionary tale. This had its origins in the aftermath of the loss of Atlantis. The Atlantean survivors blamed the gods for their misfortune. Their shamans, of course, said that the Atlanteans had sinned, and had been punished accordingly. This idea made sense, and spread along with the legend of Atlantis.

There is one bit of proof for this: scientists have found an undersea landmass in the right spot that would have been dry during the Ice Age. The rest is just conjecture, trying to find a reasonable explanation.

Of course it existed, New Xero Sevenites are descendants of that island.

So Atlanits. Everyone knows the story of a civilisation that was destroyed and sunk to the bottom of the sa but is it just a story or did it really exist?

Poll Coming

Nope.

but it's a nice story anyway.

I'm weighing in on factual basis exagerated like most Greek myths.

You have an island civilizations at Thera and Crete. These are both volcanic islands. The people are ship builders and expert navigators. However, their selection of settlment is not what I would call genius. Thanks to seismic events, which geologist are conjecturing (earthquake and then a volcanic eruption, two volcanic eruptions, volcanic eruption causing a tidal wave, double earthquake, single massive earthquake, etc.) upon, we lose the Theran society, and the Cretans, better known as the Minoans, take a big one in the gut/chin/balls/take-your-pick. the survivors pass on the tale to the more bacwards farmers on the peninsula to the northeast, known as Greece, and from this, we get a tale of advanced civilizations living on a large landmass that was sunk beneath the waves. The Illiad evolved in a similar manner, that being of generals and champions fighting the enemy and each other (common at the time) in a quest for both riches and glory. then they threw in the most beautiful woman in the world and a demi-god to give it cohesion. Voila! Greek myths. Tune in tomorrow for the spattering of unique Roman myths. :D

seriously, it's not even a real myth. we know the guy who made it up.
Lunatic Goofballs?

Was there an Atlantis? Yes. Did they have advanced technology? Yes.

However, we misinterpret it.

Atlantis was, in essence, the Minoan civilization, destroyed when the island of Thera decided it would be fun to blow itself up. The advanced technology would be nothing to us today; it was merely extremely advanced for the time. Indoor plumbing and toilets, for instance, something we're so accustomed to we don't even think about it half the time is something they had.

Here is a theory I have come up with:

During the Ice Age, when sea levels were lower, there was an island west of the straits of Gibraltar. Possibly due to its low-lying terrain, this island, which we shall call Atlantis, possessed a great bounty of wildlife, and the humans who lived there were better off than their mainland counterparts - they had an easier time getting food, so they were healthier and stronger.

When the sea levels rose at the end of the ice age, Atlantis was completely submerged. The legends were exaggerated, and the legendary bounty of Atlantis was blown out of proportion. It was a kind of lost utopia in people's minds. When civilizations developed, the legend changed to that of an advanced civilization.

Now, attached to this legend was a cautionary tale. This had its origins in the aftermath of the loss of Atlantis. The Atlantean survivors blamed the gods for their misfortune. Their shamans, of course, said that the Atlanteans had sinned, and had been punished accordingly. This idea made sense, and spread along with the legend of Atlantis.

There is one bit of proof for this: scientists have found an undersea landmass in the right spot that would have been dry during the Ice Age. The rest is just conjecture, trying to find a reasonable explanation.
Really? Care to link me to something about this landmass? This is intriguing. I could easily buy this as another explanation for the myth.

In any case, we all know that Plato came up with the myth because he had fun doing that kind of thing and knew people would take him way too seriously. Though it has lead to some interesting sci-fi. See "Stargate: Atlantis" for that which I refer to.

Yeah, bad bad Stargate spinoff.

If by 'bad bad Stargate spinoff,' you mean, 'really kickass Stargate spinoff that ended up better than the original,' then yeah. Yay, Atlantis.


And I don't believe in it, but I think it's a cool myth to think about.

It was in New Scientist a while back.

Ah. Found it (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1320-sea-level-study-reveals-atlantis-candidate.html). Lucky for you it isn't restricted to subscribers.

It was an island, right where Plato said it was.

Was there an Atlantis? Yes. Did they have advanced technology? Yes.

However, we misinterpret it.

Atlantis was, in essence, the Minoan civilization, destroyed when the island of Thera decided it would be fun to blow itself up.

and yet
This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia.

are we to believe that plato didn't know where crete was?

and yet

are we to believe that plato didn't know where crete was?It was completely out of his world...

Yes I think the myth has some fact to it. But like has been said before it was probably the Minoan civilization. Although the story has a few variations. One of them being that the island was outside the pillars of hercules. Which would be the Azores maybe. Difficult to say really but I am sure it is based on some event of the past.

I believe Santorini was the inspiration for Atlantis.

Even though it might not fit the exact date and every single precise niggly detail which we know Greek stories about the ancient past were so exceedingly accurate.

It seems to be a logical explanation – it was likely a major trading port, it had technology which was far beyond what anyone else will have for hundreds of years. I am particularly impressed with their indoor plumbing, especially the toilets. The construction of buildings was impressive too – their earthquake resistant walls and designs to allow light in and control a breeze through the building.

Those demanding precise conformity with every word of Plato should remember how accurate records were in 360 BC. I am just a little skeptical that he had truly accurate records dating back 9000 years before him.

Those demanding precise conformity with every word of Plato should remember how accurate records were in 360 BC. I am just a little skeptical that he had truly accurate records dating back 9000 years before him.

since plato is literally the only source of the idea, i'm more than a little skeptical that he was working off of any records at all.

since plato is literally the only source of the idea, i'm more than a little skeptical that he was working off of any records at all.

Quite right. And since we're throwing Plato around (something I suspect would be difficult, he was said to be a pretty good wrestler in his day), remember that the dialogues in which the story of Atlantis occurs had specific points other than the telling of that story (The Timaeus deals with the nature of the physical world and the Critias is about how a state should be well-ordered).

Most myths and stories are based off actual facts, so its very likely there was an ancient civilisation which had a large city called Atlantis. It was probably on an island and may have been destroyed by a tsunami, earthquake or a volcano which made it look like it had sunk because it would have destroyed most of the island.

Quite right. And since we're throwing Plato around (something I suspect would be difficult, he was said to be a pretty good wrestler in his day), remember that the dialogues in which the story of Atlantis occurs had specific points other than the telling of that story (The Timaeus deals with the nature of the physical world and the Critias is about how a state should be well-ordered).

my favorite part of the critias is the last sentence.
"And when he had called them together, he spake as follows-"

Most myths and stories are based off actual facts

maybe. but what about obvious works of fiction?

maybe. but what about obvious works of fiction?

Alternate universes silly :p

it is posible. several myths from random peoples across the world talk about a simular place. so it could a real place that alot of peoples origionated from and a game of , 'chinnese wispers' took place to distort some facts. it was posibly around indonesia.

it was posibly around indonesia.

now you're just making things up at random

now you're just making things up at random

i have reasons. not getting into it. i'll try and find sources and come back.

But its on a map!!!! It has to exist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Atlantis_map_1882.jpg

They had Atlantis in Wisconsin?

heres your dam dirty link. (http://www.atlan.org/book/Introduction.swf)

They had Atlantis in Wisconsin?

no. you see that island labeled "atlantis"

heres your dam dirty link. (http://www.atlan.org/book/Introduction.swf)

wow, is that a steaming pile of shit or what?

They had Atlantis in Wisconsin?

still do (http://www.theatlantishotel.com/home.html)