NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/germany.santas.reut/index.html

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/germany.santas.reut/index.html

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?

You can't blame them for feeling a little techy about it all though huh.

Who else would you expect to be sensitive about looking like nazis?

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?

When do you reckon yours will? At least these people got upset at something that resembled a Nazi salute (very understandable, especially for Germany) - your entire country got up in arms over a pastied boob. :rolleyes:

Its ironic that an american told someone to grow up

Its ironic that an american told someone to grow up

I though TPF was an Aussie?

When do you reckon yours will? At least these people got upset at something that resembled a Nazi salute (very understandable, especially for Germany) - your entire country got up in arms over a pastied boob. :rolleyes:

No, he's not American, he's Australian ("of German heritage"). We don't get upset about boobs on TV. In fact, I rather like them.

Its ironic that an american told someone to grow up

Way to look like a fool.

I though TPF was an Aussie?

It seems to keep changing from incarnation to incarnation. I recall the last one to be from the US, but I may be getting them mixed up.

I though TPF was an Aussie?

Correct.

It seems to keep changing from incarnation to incarnation. I recall the last one to be from the US, but I may be getting them mixed up.

Kievan Prussia, Greater Allemania, The Potato Factory. All one & the same.

No, he's not American, he's Australian ("of German heritage"). We don't get upset about boobs on TV. In fact, I rather like them.

I was watching the Johnathon Ross show the other day. and it seems when ever he has American guest on they all talk about how much more swearing and nudity we have on TV over here. That got me to thinking about how it used to be said by the Americans how oppresed us Brits are.

Strange what happens after a few years or so huh?

Way to look like a fool.

I taught myself a long time ago that when you are in a situation like this, you should drink beer

No, he's not American, he's Australian ("of German heritage"). We don't get upset about boobs on TV. In fact, I rather like them.

Unless they happen to be foreigners, upon which you put them in camps in the middle of the desert where they end up being desperate enough to sew their own mouths shut to expose how you of the former penal colony are treating them...

... what, I thought we were supposed to make silly generalisations about countries here? Just got carried away.

No, he's not American, he's Australian ("of German heritage"). We don't get upset about boobs on TV. In fact, I rather like them.

So do I. What an odd coincidence. :)

I was watching the Johnathon Ross show the other day.
That man deserves to be boiled alive in a cauldron of his own sycophancy.

I was watching the Johnathon Ross show the other day. and it seems when ever he has American guest on they all talk about how much more swearing and nudity we have on TV over here. That got me to thinking about how it used to be said by the Americans how oppresed us Brits are.

Strange what happens after a few years or so huh?

Who's Johnathan Ross? I have no idea what his show is.

So do I. What an odd coincidence. :)

On TV, in real life, whatever!

Who's Johnathan Ross? I have no idea what his show is.

Lucky you.

Kievan Prussia, Greater Allemania, The Potato Factory. All one & the same.

Oh, well... turn my comment to read to question when this particular poster himself intends to grow up, then. Pot, kettle, black principle still stands, perhaps even stronger.

That man deserves to be boiled alive in a cauldron of his own sycophancy.


Hehe really? You dislike him then?

Unless they happen to be foreigners, upon which you put them in camps in the middle of the desert where they end up being desperate enough to sew their own mouths shut to expose how you of the former penal colony are treating them...

You're not making any sense.

Who's Johnathan Ross? I have no idea what his show is.



He is a chat show host amongst other things. He can be very rude, but he seems to get away with it.

You're not making any sense.

What, forgotten about this scandal already? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1776938.stm)

And as I said, this thread seems to be here to make silly generalisations about a country.

Unless they happen to be foreigners, upon which you put them in camps in the middle of the desert where they end up being desperate enough to sew their own mouths shut to expose how you of the former penal colony are treating them...

... what, I thought we were supposed to make silly generalisations about countries here? Just got carried away.

Yes, our "illegal immigrant" policies & dentention centres are a disgrace. You won't get any argument from me there. Mandatory detention makes me ashamed.

What, forgotten about this scandal already? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1776938.stm)

And as I said, this thread seems to be here to make silly generalisations about a country.

Not my fault they choose not to eat. It's their own damn fault.

Yes, our "illegal immigrant" policies & dentention centres are a disgrace. You won't get any argument from me there. Mandatory detention makes me ashamed.

That's 'cause you're a decent person. :)

Hehe really? You dislike him then?
He's annoying. Mainly because he seems to be everywhere at the moment, and because he is so spectacularly sycophantic.

Not my fault they choose not to eat. It's their own damn fault.

Yeah, how dare they make the world aware of how mistreated they are being? Silly asylum seekers, don't they know being detained in the middle of nowhere and treated like shit is something they should appreciate? Like the aborigines and the theft of their children by the Australian government...

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/germany.santas.reut/index.html

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?
Oh, those naughty modern-day Germans, protesting your holy figure! How dare they?

Seriously, I don't like the censorship they show, but hey, you can't blame them.

What, forgotten about this scandal already? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1776938.stm)

And as I said, this thread seems to be here to make silly generalisations about a country.

You missed the legitimate residents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelia_Rau) and citizens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Solon) that we illiegally detained or deported.

Yeah, how dare they make the world aware of how mistreated they are being? Silly asylum seekers, don't they know being detained in the middle of nowhere and treated like shit is something they should appreciate? Like the aborigines and the theft of their children by the Australian government...

Maybe they should go home. Nobody has the natural right to seek asylum in Australia.

He's annoying. Mainly because he seems to be everywhere at the moment, and because he is so spectacularly sycophantic.

Why I do belive I see a hint of... whats that on your face, ahhh yes green!:p

Maybe they should go home. Nobody has the natural right to seek asylum in Australia.

Since, as we all know, the right to asylum is something we should freely deny whenever we don't like those darkies incringing upon our land!

Maybe they should go home. Nobody has the natural right to seek asylum in Australia.

Yeah, how dare they not assume blame for being thrown into camps and having their human rights violated? They should just return to where they fled from, because it isn't like they were running away from such treatment in the first place and expected a so called civilised nation to treat them with decency...

Yeah, how dare they not assume blame for being thrown into camps and having their human rights violated? They should just return to where they fled from, because it isn't like they were running away from such treatment in the first place and expected a so called civilised nation to treat them with decency...

They're not refugees unless it's a "they're killing everyone!" situation, and even then, it had better be Holocaust-esque.

They're not refugees unless it's a "they're killing everyone!" situation, and even then, it had better be Holocaust-esque.

Most of these refugees were from Afghanistan & Iraq. We subsequently invaded both of these countries because they had shitty, opressive regimes. I think these people had pretty good claims for refugee status.

Yeah, how dare they make the world aware of how mistreated they are being? Silly asylum seekers, don't they know being detained in the middle of nowhere and treated like shit is something they should appreciate?
I'm sure if they ask to go back they're free to leave whenever they want.
But anyway - how did they get to Aussie? There's not that many direct flights or shipping to Australia - like that boat that stopped in a number of countries they could ahve claimed asylum in before reaching Australia. Seems less like fleeing for your life to a safe-haven than shopping about.

Like the aborigines and the theft of their children by the Australian government...
Didn't this finish like 30 years ago? And it is pretty much acknoleged that it was wrong and generally a bad idea?

Hey - while looking back at things in the past our respective countries have done and since realised were wrong, didn't your country carry out forced sterilizations of petty criminals for a while with other eugenics thrown in?

They're not refugees unless it's a "they're killing everyone!" situation, and even then, it had better be Holocaust-esque.

Ah, I keep forgetting it's Kievan Prussia I'm addressing... I shall refer to post 20. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12020918&postcount=20)

Most of these refugees were from Afghanistan & Iraq. We subsequently invaded both of these countries because they had shitty, opressive regimes. I think these people had pretty good claims for refugee status.

Which brings me to point two; why offer refuge when you can just fix the country in question?

Wasnt this thread about nazi santas?

Which brings me to point two; why offer refuge when you can just fix the country in question?

Can Australia fix the countries of all the refugees currently in it?

Why I do belive I see a hint of... whats that on your face, ahhh yes green!:p
Maybe I am a bit jealous (have you seen his wife? ;)), but seriously, I don't like interviewers just telling interviewees how wonderful they are. I watched the Jonathan Ross show a few weeks ago, when Julian Barrett and Noel Fielding (the Mighty Boosh) were on it. The guy from Torchwood was also on it, and the whole interview between them two seemed to be one long back-slapping, telling each other that they're great. And when he was interviewing Barrett and Fielding, I learned nothing new from it except for the little song they did. And I'm not even a massive fan of them (I was watching it because my girlfriend is a *massive* fan of the radio and tv show).

Which brings me to point two; why offer refuge when you can just fix the country in question?

Because that kind of thing doesn't happen overnight, and in the meantime those people needed a place to stay, somewhere they could be safe.

But I forget: in your eyes they're not people unless they're white. My apologies.

Which brings me to point two; why offer refuge when you can just fix the country in question?

We've ended up doing neither. Iraq & Afghanistan are both in a state of insurgency/civil war, and we've denied asylum to many of the refugees.

Because that kind of thing doesn't happen overnight, and in the meantime those people needed a place to stay, somewhere they could be safe.

But I forget: in your eyes they're not people unless they're white. My apologies.

Ouch.

Can Australia fix the countries of all the refugees currently in it?

Like I said, many probably aren't even that much in need of refuge.

And why Australia? What, a refugee camp in the next country wasn't good enough? You have to sail the Australia, at the end of the Earth?

But I forget: in your eyes they're not people unless they're white. My apologies.

I would be just as willing to send white people back to where they came from.

I'm sure if they ask to go back they're free to leave whenever they want.
But anyway - how did they get to Aussie? There's not that many direct flights or shipping to Australia - like that boat that stopped in a number of countries they could ahve claimed asylum in before reaching Australia. Seems less like fleeing for your life to a safe-haven than shopping about.

Ah, yes, the old "they picked a country they thought they'd be treated like people in, boy were they wrong, now blame them for that decision and use it as an excuse for not treating them as people"-"excuse."

Didn't this finish like 30 years ago? And it is pretty much acknoleged that it was wrong and generally a bad idea?

The Australian government still has not properly apologised for it, and only Tasmania (as recently as a few days ago) became willing to offer restitution (and even then the sums are an affront - $5000 with a $20000 cap for families). The rest of those stricken in other parts of Australia get to linger in a state of "justice delayed, justice denied."

Hey - while looking back at things in the past our respective countries have done and since realised were wrong, didn't your country carry out forced sterilizations of petty criminals for a while with other eugenics thrown in?

Nah, not petty criminals as a group to my knowledge. It was mostly those mentally retarded, I gather. Then again, it's nothing I would ever, ever defend, and we deserve all the shame us due for it. There is no excuse for it, just like there is no excuse for Australia's behaviour.

Like I said, many probably aren't even that much in need of refuge.

And why Australia? What, a refugee camp in the next country wasn't good enough? You have to sail the Australia, at the end of the Earth?
Afghanistan and Australia aren't exactly all that far away from each other, relatively speaking. Most neighboring countries possess similiar regimes to the Taliban. India, of course, is a possible refuge spot, but from what I gather, they were taken back to Australia by Australians. So they should recieve the care they were promises.

Like I said, many probably aren't even that much in need of refuge.
Doesn't answer the question, but whatever, even if there are relatively few in need of refuge, can Australia fix their country and make sure it's safe for them to go back?

And why Australia? What, a refugee camp in the next country wasn't good enough? You have to sail the Australia, at the end of the Earth?

Maybe the though Australia would be a safe place, far away from whatever they're seeking refuge from.

The Australian government still has not properly apologised for it, and only Tasmania (as recently as a few days ago) became willing to offer restitution. The rest of those stricken in other parts of Australia get to linger in a state of "justice delayed, justice denied."

Restitution? Why the hell should my tax money pay for something I

A) Was not around for
B) Did not take part in
C) Have no relatives who took part in

?

they were taken back to Australia by Australians. So they should recieve the care they were promises.

Uh-huh. So if I tell some guy that in Australia, the government will pay for him for the rest of his life, does that make it true?

Maybe the though Australia would be a safe place, far away from whatever they're seeking refuge from.

Well, it's a bit like a game. They could have just gone to a nearby country which they could have survived in. But they got greedy.

Well, it's a bit like a game. They could have just gone to a nearby country which they could have survived it. But they got greedy.

Yes, how dare they want a good life in a first world country(or so I would have though of Oz), as opposed to just about surviving in the country beside the one they desperately want to leave.

Restitution? Why the hell should my tax money pay for something I

A) Was not around for
B) Did not take part in
C) Have no relatives who took part in

?

Because it was done by your government. Sorry sweetie, your government doesn't get let off the hook for egregious human rights violations because you're cheap, or are the sort of person who would like to pretend this never happened, or simply don't care because of a lacking morality. Next time you should perhaps fight the government when they get the idea of doing something this horrible and terrifying, but, who are we kidding? You'd be egging them on in their "final solution" for the darkies...

Ah, yes, the old "they picked a country they thought they'd be treated like people in, boy were they wrong, now blame them for that decision and use it as an excuse for not treating them as people"-"excuse."
They stopped in plenty of safe countries on the way. And Australia is geographically one of the harder countries in the world for them to get to.



Nah, not petty criminals as a group to my knowledge. It was mostly those mentally retarded, I gather. Then again, it's nothing I would ever, ever defend, and we deserve all the shame us due for it. There is no excuse for it, just like there is no excuse for Australia's behaviour.
And I would not defend the stolen generation either. (Did Sweden apologise for it's eugenics program and offer compensation?)
However I do think Australia has a right and responsibility to control it's borders and immigration and ensure all refugees are really refugees. For example following the balkans conflict, criminal gangs from the region used the refugee situation to set up and strengthen criminal gangs in England by hiding amoungst the genuine refugees. If everyone in the world was nice and honest the detention centres would not be needed, but they are not - so the government needs to be able to make sure they are only letting real refugees in.

You seem to be getting wound up into some Aussie-Bashing in a thread about the idiocy of pulling some santas who may have resembled doing a hitler salute (I cant get a picture so don't know quite how bad ther were.) to the extent of pulling up events from a generation ago - it seems like some sort of hatred against Australians for events that many Australians today had nothing to do with.

Because it was done by your government. Sorry sweetie, your government doesn't get let off the hook for egregious human rights violations because you're cheap, or are the sort of person who would like to pretend this never happened, or simply don't care because of a lacking morality. Next time you should perhaps fight the government when they get the idea of doing something this horrible and terrifying, but, who are we kidding? You'd be egging them on in their "final solution" for the darkies...
Did your country apologise and compensate the victims of sterilization? (I don't have anything against Sweden - but I feel you are kinda in a glass houses situation - if not then perhaps you should get your countries affairs in order before going after others with such venom.

Now - Australia is a nation of immigrants. A huge portion of Australians have no ancestors who were in Australia during the Stolen Generation - therefore it was not their governmant that was responsible, nor was it their parents government. As to the people who were there for that time - again - not everyone supported it, many opposed it, yet you feel they should also be punished for other peoples actions who they themselves opposed?

Because it was done by your government. Sorry sweetie, your government doesn't get let off the hook for egregious human rights violations because you're cheap, or are the sort of person who would like to pretend this never happened, or simply don't care because of a lacking morality. Next time you should perhaps fight the government when they get the idea of doing something this horrible and terrifying, but, who are we kidding? You'd be egging them on in their "final solution" for the darkies...

Maybe this government, who wants to steal from me to give it to people who haven't done anything to deserve it, should go fuck themselves. I've always wanted an excuse to revolt against the Australian government.

They stopped in plenty of safe countries on the way. And Australia is geographically one of the harder countries in the world for them to get to.

Maybe they had Australia in mind

Maybe this government, who wants to steal from me to give it to people who haven't done anything to deserve it, should go fuck themselves. I've always wanted an excuse to revolt against the Australian government.
"Steal from you"? How much taxes are you paying again? Pray tell?

And I gather if your parents (your mother at least being an immigrant herself) ever fell on hard times they better not expect to get any, say, unemployment payments or healthcare (even emergency one, because hey, that's paid for by taxes, too)?

"Steal from you"? How much taxes are you paying again? Pray tell?

And I gather if your parents (your mother at least being an immigrant herself) ever fell on hard times they better not expect to get any, say, unemployment payments or healthcare (even emergency one, because hey, that's paid for by taxes, too)?

Except that my parents pay taxes; they get what they paid for.

Except that my parents pay taxes; they get what they paid for.

Are you suggesting that the refugees should pay taxes?

Are you suggesting that the refugees should pay taxes?

...

We're talking about Aborigines here!

...

We're talking about Aborigines here!

It was only a little while ago we were talking about Santas...

...

We're talking about Aborigines here!

:confused:

It was only a little while ago we were talking about Santas...

We were never talking about Santa, see how many post were on santa

We were never talking about Santa, see how post were on santa

The thread was suppossed to be about Germans complaining about santas that appeared to be giving a nazi salute.......

They stopped in plenty of safe countries on the way. And Australia is geographically one of the harder countries in the world for them to get to.

There it is again - "stupid asylum seekers for picking Australia."

And I would not defend the stolen generation either. (Did Sweden apologise for it's eugenics program and offer compensation?)

Yup, apologies and compensation were offered, together with inquires and commission to get at the truth. The government saw a very public airing of its dirty laundry.

However I do think Australia has a right and responsibility to control it's borders and immigration and ensure all refugees are really refugees. For example following the balkans conflict, criminal gangs from the region used the refugee situation to set up and strengthen criminal gangs in England by hiding amoungst the genuine refugees. If everyone in the world was nice and honest the detention centres would not be needed, but they are not - so the government needs to be able to make sure they are only letting real refugees in.

"Some, very few indeed, of them are bad seeds, thus we should treat them all and such as in the process violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - treating them so poorly that they are driven desperate enough to sew their own mouths shut! That'll learn'em not to come to sweet, sweet Australia."

You seem to be getting wound up into some Aussie-Bashing

The OP just bashed Germany. His own nation of deniers is fair game.

in a thread about the idiocy of pulling some santas who may have resembled doing a hitler salute (I cant get a picture so don't know quite how bad ther were.) to the extent of pulling up events from a generation ago - it seems like some sort of hatred against Australians for events that many Australians today had nothing to do with.

I do hate Australia for the way it treated the Aboriginals (who are still around, by the way, so you don't get to pretend that one measly generation washes this shame away), and I do hate Australia for the way it treats refugees and asylum seekers. So? At least my hatred is justified.

Did your country apologise and compensate the victims of sterilization? (I don't have anything against Sweden - but I feel you are kinda in a glass houses situation - if not then perhaps you should get your countries affairs in order before going after others with such venom.

Again, yes. For you see, people here were shocked at it and the only ones who defend it or for some reason argue that the government shouldn't have offered compensation tend to be Nazis or other people rightfully regarded as scum of the Earth.

Now - Australia is a nation of immigrants.

Which makes the epidemic xenophobia there oh, so ironic.

A huge portion of Australians have no ancestors who were in Australia during the Stolen Generation - therefore it was not their governmant that was responsible, nor was it their parents government. As to the people who were there for that time - again - not everyone supported it, many opposed it, yet you feel they should also be punished for other peoples actions who they themselves opposed?

Again, so? It was the Australian government. They don't get to hide behind democracy, because democratic values themselves are what make them responsible still.

Again, so? It was the Australian government. They don't get to hide behind democracy, because democratic values themselves are what make them responsible still.

So we brutally overthrow the Australian government. Better?

Except that my parents pay taxes; they get what they paid for.

Yes, and that's exactly the crux: what on earth makes you think that those people being shut up in internment camps right now do not want to do exactly that? Do you honestly think people who spent their whole life labouring and trying to survive in economic circumstances none of us here could bear for longer than a week or so, and who spend all their money on a journey that could very well cost them their lives, do you honestly think these people do that because they say "Fuck this hard work, I'll sail over to the land of milk and honey and make those chumps pay for me for the rest of my life in welfare checks!"???

Like, seriously?

Has it escaped you that probably the single most important reason for people to flee from a country, besides the acute threat for their lives, is to offer their children a future? Which usually means that they're the part of the population placing the most emphasis on their children doing well in their education, getting a good job, and live a "good life"? That they do everything, take every little shitty job none of us wants to do, to make a living which usually includes sending much of the money back home to support those of their family that couldn't come?

I hate how people, in my country as much as anywhere, refuse to give asylum seekers any kind of legal status. Here, we don't keep them in camps, but we still confine them to certain "asylum seeker dormitories". They're not free to move freely in the country and they sure as hell are not allowed to get a job. They usually get a box of crappy food every week because we don't trust them to not squander the money on "frivolous thing" if we actually handed them 20€ to go buy food they would actually eat.
They're in this state of limbo for years, until they're either accepted into the country or sent back.

And all the while, we point at them for using up our tax money and being too lazy to get a job??? WTF???

Your mother had the luck to be from a "good, white, European" country and (I'm guessing) maybe even getting citizenship by marrying your dad.
If she hadn't - should she have been kept in an internment camp? You know, immigrants from Western countries have so much LESS of a good reason to be there than anybody else, yet nobody ever complains. Funny how that goes.

...

We're talking about Aborigines here!
We're WHAT? O_O

Last time I checked, you were talking about immigrants. :confused:

So we brutally overthrow the Australian government. Better?

Saner and more decent people would just apologise and offer restitution for their horrible behaviour, you know.

Your mother had the luck to be from a "good, white, European" country and (I'm guessing) maybe even getting citizenship by marrying your dad.
If she hadn't - should she have been kept in an internment camp? You know, immigrants from Western countries have so much LESS of a good reason to be there than anybody else, yet nobody ever complains. Funny how that goes.

Haha. Hahahahaha. Haha. Ha.

My mother came from Germany legally. You know, on a plane?

Saner and more decent people would just apologise and offer restitution for their horrible behaviour, you know.

Horrible behaviour? Ha, right. No. We haven't done anything, we keep our cash, the foot has spoken.

Horrible behaviour? Ha, right. No. We haven't done anything, we keep our cash, the foot has spoken.

No, it was a different group of people in government, so obviously this government has nothing to do with it.

Horrible behaviour? Ha, right. No. We haven't done anything, we keep our cash, the foot has spoken.

Your government did - the government that is an extension of you. All democratic values - such as those to respect human rights, and those of government accountability - are what make your government responsible. No amount of cheapness, feeble racist denials or fascist tendencies by you will change that.

Haha. Hahahahaha. Haha. Ha.

My mother came from Germany legally. You know, on a plane?
Oh my God, I can't believe this.

Your mother came from Germany, legally, on a plane, because they let her immigrate. Because she is from Germany.

You might want to talk to GreaterPacificNations about how his fiancée from the Phillippines can not enter the country because the Phillippines is apparently on the list "undesirable" countries.

Your government did - the government that is an extension of you. All democratic values - such as those to respect human rights, and those government accountability - are what make your government responsible. No amount of cheapness, feeble racist denials or fascist tendencies by you will change that.

My government? Despite the fact that I haven't voted?

My government? Despite the fact that I haven't voted?

Yes. You're an Australian citizen, it's your government.

Oh my God, I can't believe this.

Your mother came from Germany, legally, on a plane because they let her immigrate. Because she is from Germany.

You might want to talk to GreaterPacificNations about how his fiancé from the Phillippines can not enter the country because the Phillippines is apparently on the list "undesirable" countries.

I don't make govt. policy on immigration. If I did, I'd be willing to take the majority of people who applied to immigrate. But the fact is, my mother came through to Australia legally and cleanly; she was not a refugee, and was not an illegal immigrant.

My government? Despite the fact that I haven't voted?

Let me guess, you don't grasp the concept of democratic values and human decency, do you? No, wait, I don't have to guess. I know that you don't. You're Kievan Prussia. The futility of making you realise accountability for one's actions just struck me.

/has to get to work, anyway.

Yes. You're an Australian citizen, it's your government.

So, as I said, the only choice is to destroy the government.

Let me guess, you don't grasp the concept of democratic values and human decency, do you? No, wait, I don't have to guess. I know that you don't. You're Kievan Prussia. The futility of making you realise accountability for one's actions just struck me.

/has to get to work, anyway.

1) I like that idea; in the world of Fass, democracy means paying for crimes you never committed. Does it work the other way too? 'Cause I have an ancestor who died while building a church tower; where's my worker's comp?

2) Oh, so you believe in collective punishment. There's no point in talking to you then.

I don't make govt. policy on immigration. If I did, I'd be willing to take the majority of people who applied to immigrate. But the fact is, my mother came through to Australia legally and cleanly; she was not a refugee, and was not an illegal immigrant.

So because your mother chose Australia as a good place to live but wasn't desperately seeking refuge, she's entitled to rights that people who are seeking said refuge aren't?

So, as I said, the only choice is to destroy the government.

This makes no sense what so ever.

So because your mother chose Australia as a good place to live but wasn't desperately seeking refuge, she's entitled to rights that people who are seeking said refuge aren't?

Yeah, because she followed the law and paid her way here.

I don't make govt. policy on immigration. If I did, I'd be willing to take the majority of people who applied to immigrate. But the fact is, my mother came through to Australia legally and cleanly; she was not a refugee, and was not an illegal immigrant.

You WHAT???

So basically what you're saying is that

1) most people who apply to immigrate should be allowed to immigrate

=> why, that's a surprise!

2) when they're allowed to immigrate, they're legal, so they're "good" immigrants and everything is sunshine and happiness and paid taxes.

3) but nowadays, because of some immigration policy you don't support, they're not allowed to immigrate, which makes them illegal, so they're "bad" immigrants and they deserve to be put in internment camps in the desert and on godforsaken islands?


Can you explain to me how this is not completely twisted logic? :confused:

3) but nowadays, because of some immigration policy you don't support, they're not allowed to immigrate, which makes them illegal, so they're "bad" immigrants and they deserve to be put in internment camps in the desert and on godforsaken islands?


Can you explain to me how this is not completely twisted logic? :confused:

I don't support blocking people who can come here legally and pay their way. I support blocking people who come here on these rickety little fucking put-put boats.

Can you explain to me how this is not completely twisted logic? :confused:

I don't even want to understand it. I figure we should either try and drag the thread kicking and screaming back to the topic of nazi santa or just spam it off the forum.

Yup, apologies and compensation were offered, together with inquires and commission to get at the truth. The government saw a very public airing of its dirty laundry.
Congrats.


"Some, very few indeed, of them are bad seeds, thus we should treat them all and such as in the process violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - treating them so poorly that they are driven desperate enough to sew their own mouths shut! That'll learn'em not to come to sweet, sweet Australia."
What - holding them somewhere until you can work out if they are really an asylum seeker, an illegal immigrant or a criminal trying to get in?

Do it the British way and let them live in cities while you sort it out then you come to get them when you find out they're bogus and find they have vanished into criminal gangs and the black market?


The OP just bashed Germany. His own nation of deniers is fair game.

He did it in a pretty light hearted way pointing out the idiocy of living in the past and people feeling guilty about things they did not even do...


I do hate Australia for the way it treated the Aboriginals (who are still around, by the way, so you don't get to pretend that one measly generation washes this shame away),
The Aborigional issue is still about, it will be about for a long time. I think you'll find that many Australians are seeking ways to redress the past and recognise that what happened was wrong.
I find it distasteful that you believe the sins of the father are carried by the son as it were, particulary when the mothers and fathers of many of the sons and daughters were not even involved in the sin to start with.


and I do hate Australia for the way it treats refugees and asylum seekers. So? At least my hatred is justified.
Again - keeping them in known locations until they determine if they are actually Asylum seekes rather than just giving everyone a free pass?


Which makes the epidemic xenophobia there oh, so ironic.

What? Pretty easy to emigrate there if you have a skill they need. If you don't have a useful skill and are not a genuine refugee then why should they take you?


Again, so? It was the Australian government. They don't get to hide behind democracy, because democratic values themselves are what make them responsible still.
I don't believe any person should be made to apologise for something they were not personally responsible for. I would not go up to a German and tell them I hate them for the Nazis turning a couple of my ancestoral-relatives into ash and demanding a personal apology for what their ancestors may or may not have been involved in. Ditto for some Japanese kid regarding what his nation did to some of my direct ancestors many years before he was born.

I don't even want to understand it. I figure we should either try and drag the thread kicking and screaming back to the topic of nazi santa or just spam it off the forum.

I agree with you, lets just talk about nazi santas...

I agree with you, lets just talk about nazi santas...

This puts a whole new slant on "White Christmas"...........

This puts a whole new slant on "White Christmas"...........

I can almost imagine santa ordering the excuetion of a jew

I don't support blocking people who can come here legally and pay their way. I support blocking people who come here on these rickety little fucking put-put boats.
So some bored, rich, Western tosser, who decides that, eh, Orstraya has some better weather and the chicks are hot, why not move there (esp. seeing how, unlike e.g. the US, should he ever lose his job, they have something of a social security net to soften his fall and get him through the bad times) is more welcome to you than somebody who is so desperate that the only viable alternative is to risk their and their children's lives on one of those rickety little fucking put-put boats?

Wow.

So some bored, rich, Western tosser, who decides that, eh, Orstraya has some better weather and the chicks are hot, why not move there (esp. seeing how, unlike e.g. the US, should he ever lose his job, they have something of a social security net to soften his fall and get him through the bad times) is more welcome to you than somebody who is so desperate that the only viable alternative is to risk their and their children's lives on one of those rickety little fucking put-put boats?

Wow.

That's what 77% of the country thinks.

Ironically, i've seen it cited that our biggest share of "illegal" immigrants come from the U.K. But nobody cares about them, naturally.

That's what 77% of the country thinks.

Ironically, i've seen it cited that our biggest share of "illegal" immigrants come from the U.K. But nobody cares about them, naturally.

'cos we have an illegal immigrant exchange program with them :)

Until the Balkans went pear-shaped Aussies were the largest illegal immigration group in England.



That said - when Poms are caught overstaying their visas they tend to just get on the plane back to England.

That said - when Poms are caught overstaying their visas they tend to just get on the plane back to England.

'mmmhm. None of this "lock them up indefinitely" stuff.

'mmmhm. None of this "lock them up indefinitely" stuff.

Are other illegal immigrants who get caught overstaying visas and are prepared to get on the next plane back to their home nation locked up?

God damn it!! Just let the stinking thread die already!!!!!!

God damn it!! Just let the stinking thread die already!!!!!!

It's only 3 hours old....

And you wan't to kill it before it's even had the chance to reach it's full potential!

Monster....

Are other illegal immigrants who get caught overstaying visas and are prepared to get on the next plane back to their home nation locked up?

I don't know. The main issue seems to be people without a visa in the first place.

But of course, it's a far simpler process for people from western countries, most of whom are granted automatic visas with no waiting period and can only in extreme circumstances be rejected.

Someone from China or Iraq has a far more difficult time than someone from Britain or the USA.

I don't know. The main issue seems to be people without a visa in the first place.

But of course, it's a far simpler process for people from western countries, most of whom are granted automatic visas with no waiting period and can only in extreme circumstances be rejected.

Someone from China or Iraq has a far more difficult time than someone from Britain or the USA.

I would be surprised if when someone is caught without a visa that they were locked up if they were happy to go home when caught.

BTW - It is not Automatic for the Poms to get tourist Visas for Australia, and definately not easy to get working-holiday visas. Or if it is it must have changed recently.

As I understand they are locked up if they want to apply for residency while their application is considered after living there illegally and the government thinks there's a decent risk they will just dissappear off into the black market they have been working in for the last X years.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/germany.santas.reut/index.html

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?
I reckon that this reaction to "saluting Nazi-Santas" is the best sign that Germany not only has grown up but has actually learned something from its past.

Something I'm still hoping might happen with you one day, although I wouldn't bet a single penny on it.

I reckon that this reaction to "saluting Nazi-Santas" is the best sign that Germany not only has grown up but has actually learned something from its past.

Except that the Santas weren't Nazis, nor were they saluting. They were point to the sky, which LOOKED like a salute to some people.

Someone from China or Iraq has a far more difficult time than someone from Britain or the USA.

Of course. We've been trying to get my uncle from Ukraine out to visit for years, but they govt. is a jerk.

I would be surprised if when someone is caught without a visa that they were locked up if they were happy to go home when caught.

BTW - It is not Automatic for the Poms to get tourist Visas for Australia, and definately not easy to get working-holiday visas. Or if it is it must have changed recently.

Having researched the topic, I know that I can stay and work for up to two years in the UK with only an Australian passport.

If it's different the other way around, I would be quite surprised.

Of course. We've been trying to get my uncle from Ukraine out to visit for years, but they govt. is a jerk.

He's obviously useless to the economy. You should be proud that the government is protecting your tax dollars by keeping such people out of the country.

...right?

I don't support blocking people who can come here legally and pay their way. I support blocking people who come here on these rickety little fucking put-put boats.

Oh, right. Blocking poor people.

One day you'll grow up and maybe your stupid childish opinion will be relevant to someone. Not soon, of course, but one day.

He's obviously useless to the economy. You should be proud that the government is protecting your tax dollars by keeping such people out of the country.

...right?

To VISIT. We don't intend on having him here permanently. He's too old, anyway.

Except that the Santas weren't Nazis, nor were they saluting. They were point to the sky, which LOOKED like a salute to some people.
Which is enough to raise suspicion in this country about which you, apparently, still have to learn a lot.

I wonder what kind of uproar it would have caused world-wide if they hadn't pulled'em from the shelves - then it's "OMG Germans = Nazis" all over again.

Oh, right. Blocking poor people.

One day you'll grow up and maybe your stupid childish opinion will be relevant to someone. Not soon, of course, but one day.

Blocking people who just want a free ride. What, you think they just band together and hire a boat to come here? They have enough money to give to people smugglers. They're not really poor. They're just too cheap to shell out a bit more and come here legitimately..

To VISIT. We don't intend on having him here permanently. He's too old, anyway.

But he might want to stay. And because he's old, he's only going to be a liability on our healthcare system.

;)

But he might want to stay. And because he's old, he's only going to be a liability on our healthcare system.

;)

He didn't stay the last time, why would he this time?

He didn't stay the last time, why would he this time?
I'm fucking with you.

Why is the government treating your uncle unjustly, but you're fine with the same happening to many thousands of others denied access to this country?

I've got to get to bed. Will continue this tomorrow.

Blocking people who just want a free ride. What, you think they just band together and hire a boat to come here? They have enough money to give to people smugglers. They're not really poor. They're just too cheap to shell out a bit more and come here legitimately..

Oh, they want a FREE ride, that's why they PAY or indenture themselves to criminals. That makes so much sense.

And really, since they obviously have SOME money they're not "really" poor. They're fakes. They're fucking millionnaires just looking for a cheap and easy scam. They risk their lives on the open sea in crappy boats just for FUN.

Every one of your stupid points gets ripped to shreds, and you ignore it all and just make MORE stupid points. Because all you want here is attention. Grow the fuck up.

Having researched the topic, I know that I can stay and work for up to two years in the UK with only an Australian passport.

If it's different the other way around, I would be quite surprised.

It is actually - Australia is very good at negotiating with the British, and the longest Visa they give the Poms is a 12Month one.

There is quite a bit to quote but from the Australian High Comission in London comes the following:

Linkey (http://www.visas-australia.com/visas/sixtwelve.asp)

ETA Visa (Electronic Travel Authority)

An ETA is an invisible, electronic visa for travelers who are entering Australia for tourism or business purposes (eg attending a conference, business meeting or business negotiations) for trips no longer than 3 months.

The ETA visa is digitally assigned to your passport number supplied at the time of application, removing the need for labels and stamps previously issued by the Australian High Commissions

To apply you must have one of the following passports

Passport Nationalities UK British Citizens UK British National (overseas) Republic of Ireland Andorra Austria Belgium Brunei Canada Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Hong Kong Iceland Italy Japan Liechtenstein Luxembourg Malaysia Malta Monaco Netherlands Norway Portugal Rep of San Marino Singapore South Korea Spain Sweden Switzerland Taiwan United States Vatican City

An ETA visa costs £12/€17 when travelling from the United Kingdom/Ireland.


Explore the link a little to find more


And some from Austravel to break it down into plainer wording:

VISA FOR AUSTRALIA - INFORMATION FOR BRITISH PASSPORT HOLDERS ONLY

In order to enter Australia, you require a full British passport valid for at least 6 months after the completion of your trip, plus a pre-arranged entry authority known as an 'ETA'. Without such an authority, you will be refused entry at Australian Immigration..

The good news...its never been easier to arrange and you can now arrange your visa online on this site!

ETA's are available for short term Tourists or Business Travellers. They replace the traditional visa label in your passport. ETA's allow a stay of up to 3 months in Australia on each visit over a 12 month period. Austravel issue ETA's within minutes either online CLICK HERE , over the telephone or by post. Administration fee of £17 per ETA. (Business visas incur an additional fee). All we require to issue your ETA are your passport details:

- Passport Number
- Country of Birth
- Date of Birth
- Passport Expiry Date
- Full Name
- Male / Female
- Nationality

If you are entering Australia for another reason, then you will require a traditional visa in your passport available directly through the Australian High Commission.

But he might want to stay. And because he's old, he's only going to be a liability on our healthcare system.

;)

He's probably a terrorist too. Who knows? I mean, look at the mental health of his relatives. That indicates a genuine security risk. He should not only be prevented from entering the country, his own country should be bombed!

It is actually - Australia is very good at negotiating with the British, and the longest Visa they give the Poms is a 12Month one.

There is quite a bit to quote but from the Australian High Comission in London comes the following:

Linkey (http://www.visas-australia.com/visas/sixtwelve.asp)



Explore the link a little to find more


And some from Austravel to break it down into plainer wording:


I don't have time to read all of it now, but that little snippet there is interesting.

Even so; my earlier point that it's far easier for people from wealthier countries to enter this nation still stands. I initially said Western, I will acknowledge that - the only real exception to the rule of "wealthy countries" is Malaysia.

I suppose i'll read up more on actual immigration law if I get time this weekend.

When do you reckon yours will? At least these people got upset at something that resembled a Nazi salute (very understandable, especially for Germany) - your entire country got up in arms over a pastied boob. :rolleyes:

and at least some posters are not soo focused on the USA to the point of it being a Stalker type relationship. really, an article about Germany, and some posters try to twist it towards the USA. Talk about obsession.

I'm fucking with you.

Why is the government treating your uncle unjustly, but you're fine with the same happening to many thousands of others denied access to this country?

The difference is that my uncle is entirely willing to use legal methods and can actually pay his way here.

First of all, so that we, after 100+ posts, know what we are talking about: THIS (http://i13.tinypic.com/4fuu60w.jpg)is a picture of the offending article(s).
Except that the Santas weren't Nazis, nor were they saluting. They were point to the sky, which LOOKED like a salute to some people.
Oh, there weren't saluting? They weren't made to resemble Nazis?
I envy people who know such things about an object without having talked to the people who manufactured them, let alone really knew what they were trying to do.. oh, I forget, without even ever having seen the object.

I'm going out on a brink a bit here to make my point, but I'd like to remind you folks of that funny clothing label (http://i16.tinypic.com/2m5x8gi.jpg) where people used an inconspicious opportunity to make a clandestine point with the way they produced something.. in the same vein, the people responsile for this design could damn well have had the very thing they are accused of now in mind when giving it this very shape, disguised as a harmless pointing to the sky- just as well as it can be a non-intedned thing. Who are you to know? And who are we to know? But the possibility is there, and, especially now that is has become a big thing in the media, the possibility for it to become abused and actually and consciously be bought and displayed by neo-Nazis to make a point and get attention is there, and we have our reasons for being very cautious with (not) providing such possibilities for them.

As a small addendum: this happened in a region of Germany not exactly renowned for its superb anti-Nazio record, Sachsen-Anhalt. I am not quite sure just in how far I support the very strict restructions we impose on the freedom of speech and display as for as Nazi things go, but this is just another little tidbit that steers me into the direction of "Maybe, this time, it is for the better that they removed them." That, and I see it with happiness that some poeple from tehre have not resigned and actually go and complain about these things to the store manager.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/germany.santas.reut/index.html

When do you reckon that country is going to grow up?

Yeah, I know. Sometimes I feel for Germany.

And the damn 'salute' originated here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_salute