NationStates Jolt Archive

The government has just settled in the Brandon Mayfield case, awarding him and his family 2 million dollars. The case goes back to the Madrid bombing, where government investigators incorrectly identified a single fingerprint as Mayfield's. He was then held without charge. My fovorite part...

"[Mayfield] accepted a $2 million settlement Wednesday in his lawsuit against the federal government, setting up a legal showdown over the constitutionality of the USA Patriot Act."

Let's wish him and his legal team luck, and hope for a speedy demise to this misbegotten law that has no place in our society!

Link to article (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1164860703106190.xml&coll=7)

Huzzah!

He settled. And the court doesn't look like it's making any judgment on the Patriot Act. The article says he'll be continuing his challenge...ah, he'll be counter-suing.

It's a fantastic out for the government if he settles and drops it.

He settled. So the court won't be making a judgement on the Patriot Act...or am I missing something?

It's a fantastic out for the government.

From the way I read it, he settled on one case but has others going that are associated to other aspects of it like about them not stating where the bugs were and other items.

From the way I read it, he settled on one case but has others going that are associated to other aspects of it like about them not stating where the bugs were and other items.

correct, there are multiple claims, one was a civil suit for various damages, and the other was a claim that the patriot act itself was unconstitutional.

He settled the claim for damages, but the claim regarding the constitutionality is still ongoing. In fact, the settlement is irrelevant to that fact, as it didn't pertain to it.

Go get 'em, Mayfield.

There is no excuse for detention without charges.

I pray that God lets the Patriot act stand, even if that means He has to "Retire" some members of the supreme court to make that body more representative of His will. The Patriot Act allows the President to better root out the Muslim evildoers who are a constant danger, not only to our bodies, but to our souls. It is my hope that in the future he will also be able to use this mighty tool against other enemies of God.

Huzzah #2!

OT, but when did Bushanomics get a puppet?

I pray that God lets the Patriot act stand, even if that means he has to "Retire" some members of the supreme court to make that body more representative of his will.

You didn't capitalize "He has" or "His will."

Thus, showing disrespect to God.

I hope you are prepared for an eternity in the fires of Hell!

I pray that God lets the Patriot act stand, even if that means he has to "Retire" some members of the supreme court to make that body more representative of his will. The Patriot Act allows the President to better root out the Muslim evildoers who are a constant danger, not only to our bodies, but to our souls. It is my hope that in the future he will also be able to use this mighty tool against other enemies of God.

You are a total joke. I hope you get held without charge when they find a fingerprint they think is yours in an abortion clinic bombing. We all know you REALLY want to. So, go make your god proud by incinerating a doctor or two. Just don't be surprised when you disappear into a dark hole with no charges filed, no access to councel, etc.

You didn't capitalize "He has" or "His will."

Thus, showing disrespect to God.

I hope you are prepared for an eternity in the fires of Hell!

You are correct. However, I have now acted to change my mistake, and beg forgiveness of God.

You are correct. However, I have now acted to change my mistake, and beg forgiveness of God.

Also, you are trying to use God as your personal political tool, and contradicting the peaceful message of Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour by advocating violence and hatred.

But you're not likely to change that mistake...

...and thus, God will never forgive you. And you will find out just how much His will is independent of your own petty politics and biases, too late for true redemption.

I pray that God lets the Patriot act stand, even if that means He has to "Retire" some members of the supreme court to make that body more representative of His will. The Patriot Act allows the President to better root out the Muslim evildoers who are a constant danger, not only to our bodies, but to our souls. It is my hope that in the future he will also be able to use this mighty tool against other enemies of God.

I mostly just lurk around but this time I really need to point out that you're the most obvious troll I've ever seen. Ever.

Also, I think there's a rule on NS against advocating the deaths of other people.

OT, but when did Bushanomics get a puppet?

Its the new blowhard jerkoff forum troll.

This is a troll-friendly forum with troll-friendly mods now, so more of this vandalism is to be expected.

At any rate:

+100 mayfield, great news in every way.

Don't fuck with lawyers with trumped up BS terrorism charges and illegal surveillance.

I pray that God lets the Patriot act stand, even if that means He has to "Retire" some members of the supreme court to make that body more representative of His will. The Patriot Act allows the President to better root out the Muslim evildoers who are a constant danger, not only to our bodies, but to our souls. It is my hope that in the future he will also be able to use this mighty tool against other enemies of God.

Not only is your god utterly powerless, if that happened, the Democratic congress and senate would be glad to force Dubya into putting there a MORE liberal judge.

Fine by me.

I am an enemy of your god. Precisely because I stand by the true God(s) - one(s) of compassion, love, forgiveness. Whatever their name is, whatever the belief system they come from, they all stand for what's best in the world. Your god, as you have shown in this thread and others, stands only for what's worse, most petty, most repulsive. Not only am I an enemy of your god, I am proud to be one.

I suspect that we're coming down off of the "9/11 High". It's a slow process, but within the next three years America will be back to whatever passes for normal, in this gigantic, neurotic country of ours.

I mostly just lurk around but this time I really need to point out that you're the most obvious troll I've ever seen. Ever.

Also, I think there's a rule on NS against advocating the deaths of other people.
I've posted his comment to the mod forums.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=509117

Use the above thread if there are any other flames or trolls etc about who are trying to make the thread worse.

I suspect that we're coming down off of the "9/11 High". It's a slow process, but within the next three years America will be back to whatever passes for normal, in this gigantic, neurotic country of ours.

Heh, I wish. I'm not so optimistic. Besides, there's always the potential for another 9/11 type thing to give us our national fix for hatred and idiocy.

OT, but when did Bushanomics get a puppet?

I don't think it's the puppet of someone who actually believes this crap. I think it's something like the Drunk Commies/Jesussaves incident.

Heh, I wish. I'm not so optimistic. Besides, there's always the potential for another 9/11 type thing to give us our national fix for hatred and idiocy.

Not really. The psychotic overreaction of the Patriot Act has probably made the US too hostile of Al Qaeda to continue to operate in. Furthermore, the action in Afghanistan shattered all of their organizational capabilities. From here on out, we'll most likely see no mega attacks for quite some time, instead I suspect the only thing we'll see is "franchise" attacks, which will be small scale. Which, we can also root out the problems very easily, because they can only come from domestic Muslims, whose social grievances we can easily address.

Furthermore, the signs are everywhere that the restrictions are creeping away. For example, the restrictions against being allowed to carry scissors on airplanes are gone, along with many other such restrictions. We are now in a period of "liberal" correction, for the previous 4.5 years of ultra-conservatism.

I mostly just lurk around but this time I really need to point out that you're the most obvious troll I've ever seen. Ever.

Also, I think there's a rule on NS against advocating the deaths of other people.

In his / her defense, I'd like to say that God's "retiring" of a SCOTUS judge could simply mean urging the judge to literally retire, after all, many of them are quite old. It's not necessarily advocating anyone's death.

However, I don't agree with The Redemption Army, being an atheist. I personally believe, in fact, that George W. Bush deserves immediate killing for defecating all over the Constitution, Geneva Conventions, and United Nations to punish people who are in many cases innocent Muslims or people who were arrested based on information extracted by torture in the Black Sites.

When someone puts the word "retire" between quotation marks like that I doubt they mean actually buying a fishing pole and enjoying their golden years.

Anyway, it's good to see that the Patriot Act is starting to crumble under the contradiction that it was designed to protect freedom by curbing it.

... it's good to see that the Patriot Act is starting to crumble under the contradiction that it was designed to protect freedom by curbing it.

The sad part is that there are obviously people who don't think freedom is worth the risk, and would rather live in fear of both the government, and those icky brown people.

In his / her defense, I'd like to say that God's "retiring" of a SCOTUS judge could simply mean urging the judge to literally retire, after all, many of them are quite old. It's not necessarily advocating anyone's death.

However, I don't agree with The Redemption Army, being an atheist. I personally believe, in fact, that George W. Bush deserves immediate killing for defecating all over the Constitution, Geneva Conventions, and United Nations to punish people who are in many cases innocent Muslims or people who were arrested based on information extracted by torture in the Black Sites.


I believe your advocating the killing of America's Commander in Cheif is unnecessary and should be unacceptable. No matter what his decision making and the laws he passes should lead to advocating his assassination. Must I remind you that he did NOT pass the Patriot Act alone. Must I remind you that as President of the United States of America, you do NOT have the power to solely pass the Laws of the Land.

I am in Full Support of the Patriot Act. With you advocating my President's murder I will tell you this much. You are no better than the terrorists and extremists themselves.

You preach about the innocence of muslims then you advocate the murder of the President of the United States of America. That's like the President of Iran, declaring his Nuke ambitions are solely for the purpose of energy and within the same breath he says that Israel needs to be wiped from the face of the planet.

Ridiculous. I don't care whether or not people disagree, disapprove, dislike, hate or whatever.....I think it's taking it to far to advocate the murder or assassination of the President. We all have the right to disagree but we don't have the right to advocate the murder of anybody no matter how strongly we may or may not disagree.

I really wish the MODs would try to stop people from advocating the murder of the President of the USA or any other World Leader.

Liberals have put patriotism on trial...and won. This is a sad day for our country.

I really wish the MODs would try to stop people from advocating the murder of the President of the USA or any other World Leader such as Saddam, Chavez, Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il.

That what you're saying? The bolded part was mine, yes, but they are world leaders.

I don't advocate his murder either. Consider who the vice-president is and you'll realize why. Further, Dubya gets killed, bam, instant martyr republican.

Liberals have put patriotism on trial...and won. This is a sad day for our country.

No, liberals have put 1984 on trial and won. Sad day for you.

That what you're saying? The bolded part was mine, yes, but they are world leaders.

I don't advocate his murder either. Consider who the vice-president is and you'll realize why. Further, Dubya gets killed, bam, instant martyr republican.

Correction: Saddam is no longer a world leader. In fact, I can't ever classify him as a legitimate World Leader having killed and tortured and raped hundreds of thousands of his own people. As for Chavez, he's just a joke. I hope that the World will come together in resolving N Korea's Nuke predicament. Iran's president is also a Joke.

Correction: Saddam is no longer a world leader. In fact, I can't ever classify him as a legitimate World Leader having killed and tortured and raped hundreds of thousands of his own people. As for Chavez, he's just a joke. I hope that the World will come together in resolving N Korea's Nuke predicament. Iran's president is also a Joke.

It's interesting that you refer to people as "a joke" when they are more powerful, more successful, and more influential then you will ever be.

Oh poor Chavez, what a pathetic wretch of a creature, all he has managed to do is...become president of a nation. A pretty oil rich one at that.

Not really. The psychotic overreaction of the Patriot Act has probably made the US too hostile of Al Qaeda to continue to operate in.

No, I do not believe this to be true. I do not believe anything the US has been doing has made us safer from terrorism.

Furthermore, the action in Afghanistan shattered all of their organizational capabilities.

...what about Iraq then? Iran? I seriously doubt these places are either clean of terrorist organizational potential or the will to commit terrorism, especially since the US has been rampaging around just like a stereotypical Great Satan, not caring who it kills as long as the killing makes it look good.

It's interesting that you refer to people as "a joke" when they are more powerful, more successful, and more influential then you will ever be.

Oh poor Chavez, what a pathetic wretch of a creature, all he has managed to do is...become president of a nation. A pretty oil rich one at that.

Honestly, I'm glad I'm nothing like Chavez or President of Iran.

Your statement, I know is an attempt to flame bait me but I'm not going to feed into it but will comment how your very statement can go for you especially considering President Bush is the most powerful man in the world and I know you hate and despise him and I'm sure you probably consider him to be a joke so here you go..........."they are more powerful, more successful, and more influential then you will ever be." Right back at ya.

Honestly, I'm glad I'm nothing like Chavez or President of Iran.
..
President Bush is the most powerful man in the world and I know you hate and despise him and I'm sure you probably consider him to be a joke so here you go..........."they are more powerful, more successful, and more influential then you will ever be." Right back at ya.

Congratulations, you've proved that both of your arguments are lame. Can we move on now?

No, I do not believe this to be true. I do not believe anything the US has been doing has made us safer from terrorism.
We've certainly made mistakes, but amidst the mistakes there have been several things that have accomplished their goal, and shattering the Al Qaeda leadership structure in Afghanistan has been one of the most important.



...what about Iraq then? Iran? I seriously doubt these places are either clean of terrorist organizational potential or the will to commit terrorism, especially since the US has been rampaging around just like a stereotypical Great Satan, not caring who it kills as long as the killing makes it look good.

Of all the terrorist organizations in the world, only one has pulled off a mega-attack inside the United States, and that is al Qaeda. Primarily because of it's planning capability, financial resources and protection from the Taliban government was it able to pull off these attacks. There are no other US focused groups like that out there, with such protection, and a desire to attack the US homeland directly. And rare is the governemnt that would be willing to take that risk.

Correction: Saddam is no longer a world leader. In fact, I can't ever classify him as a legitimate World Leader having killed and tortured and raped hundreds of thousands of his own people. As for Chavez, he's just a joke. I hope that the World will come together in resolving N Korea's Nuke predicament. Iran's president is also a Joke.

They're still world leaders, now, don't dodge. Do you or do you not support killing any of them? I'll even leave Saddam out, because I'm feeling generous. And mind you that Chavez was elected, re-elected and passed a referendum with 7 out of 8 media outlets in Venezuela against him, before you go on the "oh, they weren't elected" tangent, whereas Bush did not get majority vote in 2000.

No, I do not believe this to be true. I do not believe anything the US has been doing has made us safer from terrorism.



...what about Iraq then? Iran? I seriously doubt these places are either clean of terrorist organizational potential or the will to commit terrorism, especially since the US has been rampaging around just like a stereotypical Great Satan, not caring who it kills as long as the killing makes it look good.

Okay, should we do absolutely nothing against the acts of terrorism, should we pretend that it's no big deal?

Atleast fighting over there is bringing them damned terrorists out of their caves. Now we have a target we can see. News Flash: We are at WAR. It is inevitable that the US will hit unintentionally civilians. Atleast we try to minimize and to avoid it compared to the terrorists who intentionally murder their own people. Intentionally use the innocent civilians to hide behind forcing them as Human sheilds. This just shows how much of cowards they are and then they have the nerve to preach "Allah told us to do it" :rolleyes:

Atleast fighting in the Middle East has caused a big enough distraction and which is the reason we haven't been hit in our homeland since 9/11. Or maybe you don't care about those 3000 civilians murdered.

Why don't you try doing something more productive instead of the constant USA is Satan bit? I'm tired of the constant bickering. Why don't you try to come up with a better solution than taking the war to the terrorists instead of allowing them to bring it to our homelands? Everybody just condemns, condemns, and condemns the USA but NOBODY offers a better solution. Give me a freaking break.

BS snip.

You want a solution? My pleasure.

You could work with the world instead of against it, with effective methods that the EU uses and that WORK to get the info. You could NOT start a war that's being used as we speak to recruit more terrorists. You could work with intelligence instead of fear. You could use the same money you're using to murder civilians to actually help them and then diffuse the anger that leads to terrorism. You could have NOT diverted your attentions from Bin Laden, who you would have caught by now, to the wild goose chase in Iraq which the US murdered lots of civilians, MUCH more than the ones that died in WTC.

For starters.

You want a solution? My pleasure.

You could work with the world instead of against it, with effective methods that the EU uses and that WORK to get the info. You could NOT start a war that's being used as we speak to recruit more terrorists. You could work with intelligence instead of fear. You could use the same money you're using to murder civilians to actually help them and then diffuse the anger that leads to terrorism. You could have NOT diverted your attentions from Bin Laden, who you would have caught by now, to the wild goose chase in Iraq which the US murdered lots of civilians, MUCH more than the ones that died in WTC.

For starters.

Not really. After the point bin Laden got into Pakistan, there really was nothing we could do.

Okay, should we do absolutely nothing against the acts of terrorism, should we pretend that it's no big deal?

Atleast fighting over there is bringing them damned terrorists out of their caves. Now we have a target we can see. News Flash: We are at WAR. It is inevitable that the US will hit unintentionally civilians. Atleast we try to minimize and to avoid it compared to the terrorists who intentionally murder their own people. Intentionally use the innocent civilians to hide behind forcing them as Human sheilds. This just shows how much of cowards they are and then they have the nerve to preach "Allah told us to do it" :rolleyes:

Atleast fighting in the Middle East has caused a big enough distraction and which is the reason we haven't been hit in our homeland since 9/11. Or maybe you don't care about those 3000 civilians murdered.

Why don't you try doing something more productive instead of the constant USA is Satan bit? I'm tired of the constant bickering. Why don't you try to come up with a better solution than taking the war to the terrorists instead of allowing them to bring it to our homelands? Everybody just condemns, condemns, and condemns the USA but NOBODY offers a better solution. Give me a freaking break.


But, you are aptly illustrating how the people you're railing about have actually accomplished their goal against you. By allowing your fear to dictate your reactions you are giving them exactly what they want. They WANT you to be afraid. They WANT you to wonder what they're up to at all times. And, most of all, they WANT you to turn against your own countrymen at the word of an out-of-control government, and suffer like they and their people have for centuries at the hands of the western powers.

So, in essence, YOU are the one supporting terrorism. Chew on that, jerk.

You want a solution? My pleasure.

You could work with the world instead of against it, with effective methods that the EU uses and that WORK to get the info. You could NOT start a war that's being used as we speak to recruit more terrorists. You could work with intelligence instead of fear. You could use the same money you're using to murder civilians to actually help them and then diffuse the anger that leads to terrorism. You could have NOT diverted your attentions from Bin Laden, who you would have caught by now, to the wild goose chase in Iraq which the US murdered lots of civilians, MUCH more than the ones that died in WTC.

For starters.


News Flash: We never left Afghanistan, we're still there looking for bin Laden and other than Pakistan who else is trying to help us find him. Where's Europe at when we're continually on the search for bin Laden?

As for murdering, we are at WAR. The only doing the murdering are the Iran and Syria insurgencies and the Extremists within Iraq. They figure they can murder how ever many people they can and then blame it on the USA and you guys are falling for it. :rolleyes:

But, you are aptly illustrating how the people you're railing about have actually accomplished their goal against you. By allowing your fear to dictate your reactions you are giving them exactly what they want. They WANT you to be afraid. They WANT you to wonder what they're up to at all times. And, most of all, they WANT you to turn against your own countrymen at the word of an out-of-control government, and suffer like they and their people have for centuries at the hands of the western powers.


Dingalingaling! We have a winner!

The primary goal of most terrorist organizations is to change the behavior of an open society, and force it to become a non-open society.

It really is pointless to try to tell some of you people the importance of the Patriot Act so I'm not going to bother with it. The lot of you are already brainwashed against it but I will continue to support it because I do understand and respect the fact that it is directed at the terrorists.

News Flash: We never left Afghanistan, we're still there looking for bin Laden and other than Pakistan who else is trying to help us find him. Where's Europe at when we're continually on the search for bin Laden?

As for murdering, we are at WAR. The only doing the murdering are the Iran and Syria insurgencies and the Extremists within Iraq. They figure they can murder how ever many people they can and then blame it on the USA and you guys are falling for it. :rolleyes:

You had no right to go into Iraq in the first place. War does not justify anything. You did leave Afghanistan when you failed to make it secure outside its capital. Europe is successfully catching terrorists, the same terrorists you're failing to catch while torturing random people at that concentration camp Bush created.

Okay, should we do absolutely nothing against the acts of terrorism, should we pretend that it's no big deal?

So you agree that twenty eggs should more than suffice to pay for your car?

...strawman.

Atleast fighting over there is bringing them damned terrorists out of their caves. Now we have a target we can see.

Right! I mean, we're killing innocent civilians, which is apparently a Bad Thing (when terrorists do it), but at least we don't have to try very hard! Therefore all of our foreign policies so far have been EXCELLENT!

News Flash: We are at WAR.

Did Congress declare war? With whom?

"We are at WAR" doesn't justify anything no matter how much you capitalize war.

It is inevitable that the US will hit unintentionally civilians. Atleast we try to minimize and to avoid it compared to the terrorists who intentionally murder their own people.

When the result is the same - well, not the same, over ten times as many innocents have died at our hands - what does it matter? You're grabbing at ethical straws here. "At least we're not as bad as the terrorists." What's next? "Well, at least we're not the Devil stewing in the fiery pits of Hell! YAY!"

Intentionally use the innocent civilians to hide behind forcing them as Human sheilds. This just shows how much of cowards they are and then they have the nerve to preach "Allah told us to do it" :rolleyes:

Nice mini-rant, not very relevant other than to bolster your apparent need to continually call other people cowards.

Atleast fighting in the Middle East has caused a big enough distraction and which is the reason we haven't been hit in our homeland since 9/11. Or maybe you don't care about those 3000 civilians murdered.

Oh right - kill 30,000 Iraqis, to avenge 3,000 Americans.

I guess that makes sense from the perspective of, brown foreign people are worth one-tenth of what Americans are. Nice way of looking at things, Adolf.

Why don't you try doing something more productive instead of the constant USA is Satan bit?

Pardon me? Please relate this to something I've said in a way that is meaningful.

I'm tired of the constant bickering.

So why are you bickering? You're responding to a post I wasn't even addressing to you or your comments. Physician, heal thyself.

Why don't you try to come up with a better solution than taking the war to the terrorists instead of allowing them to bring it to our homelands?

Since when is the Patriot Act about this issue? The Patriot Act is not about that at all.

Now if you want to argue the ethics of the war in Afghanistan, and the war on Iraq, and the occupation of Iraq, maybe that should get it's own thread so you can pretend you're not bickering in that one.

Everybody just condemns, condemns, and condemns the USA but NOBODY offers a better solution. Give me a freaking break.

Right, like the great solutions you've been offering. Oh wait, you haven't. Case closed, CYA.

It really is pointless to try to tell some of you people the importance of the Patriot Act so I'm not going to bother with it. The lot of you are already brainwashed against it but I will continue to support it because I do understand and respect the fact that it is directed at the terrorists.

You are so full of SH@#. If it were directed at terrorists how would the guy in the OP have even gotten involved in the first place?

It really is pointless to try to tell some of you people the importance of the Patriot Act so I'm not going to bother with it. The lot of you are already brainwashed against it but I will continue to support it because I do understand and respect the fact that it is directed at the terrorists.

I could argue you're brainwashed FOR it, but I won't. Why? Because it's NOT A POINT. Because saying "you're brainwashed" is an ad hominem fallacy that means exactly zero in a serious discussion. Now try and convince us with DECENT points.

-snip-

Nice way of looking at things, Adolf.

-snip-



Thanks, Chirac

Thanks, Chirac

Let me get this straight.

You're comparing Chirac to Hitler? Or, using Chirac as an insult AS STRONG AS Hitler? Now, I may not like Chirac (he's too conservative), but I have some sense of proportion!

Thanks, Chirac

Concession accepted. ;)

Let me get this straight.

You're comparing Chirac to Hitler? Or, using Chirac as an insult AS STRONG AS Hitler? Now, I may not like Chirac (he's too conservative), but I have some sense of proportion!

No I'm not comparing Chirac to Hitler, pay attention. He insulted me, so I stooped to his low level of hate by insulting him back.

No I'm not comparing Chirac to Hitler, pay attention. He insulted me, so I stooped to his low level of hate by insulting him back.

Ah yes. My low level of hate and insults, when you've just said that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "brainwashed."

In fact, you're only like Hitler (i.e, racist, xenophobic, supremacist, bigoted, collectivist) if you rate the lives of 10 foreigners to be equal to or less than 1 American's. So it was not so much an insult as a genuine comparison of a way of thinking.

An apt one, too, looks like.

I suggest you grow up and quit treating the world like it's just a pissing contest. You might embarass yourself less often.

No I'm not comparing Chirac to Hitler, pay attention. He insulted me, so I stooped to his low level of hate by insulting him back.

But the difference is you fell short of your purpose. Comparing Chirac to Hitler is like comparing Quentin Tarantino to Madame Curie. Not even in the same sport, much less same league, or ballpark

Honestly, I'm glad I'm nothing like Chavez or President of Iran.

Your statement, I know is an attempt to flame bait me but I'm not going to feed into it but will comment how your very statement can go for you especially considering President Bush is the most powerful man in the world and I know you hate and despise him and I'm sure you probably consider him to be a joke so here you go..........."they are more powerful, more successful, and more influential then you will ever be." Right back at ya.

you know, if your entire line of logic is "well I know what you're going to say and you're wrong for saying it" you've got some work to do.

He's not "a joke", I think he's duplicitous, unethical, lying, coniving bastard who is a danger to america.

And that's absolutly no joke.

No I'm not comparing Chirac to Hitler, pay attention. He insulted me, so I stooped to his low level of hate by insulting him back.

You see, Chirac isn't as strong an insult as Hitler.

I mean, you could have called him Stalin, which is a communist, for instance, but I guess I know why you didn't - Stalin's methods are too much like the PATRIOT ACT methods...

Ah yes. My low level of hate and insults, when you've just said that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "brainwashed."

In fact, you're only like Hitler (i.e, racist, xenophobic, supremacist, bigoted, collectivist) if you rate the lives of 10 foreigners to be equal to or less than 1 American's. So it was not so much an insult as a genuine comparison of a way of thinking.

An apt one, too, looks like.

I suggest you grow up and quit treating the world like it's just a pissing contest. You might embarass yourself less often.

How many racists, supremacists, bigots, etc... would open his house to a father and son in need of a place to stay (both Cubans) and also a Korean Lady, who at first was pregnant and now has a baby girl) in need of a place to stay after seperating from her husband? I know of none.

I set aside my own prejudices of kids to allow the father and 3 yr old Cuban to move in. I knew that kids don't know how to treat dogs which I have 2 of. I put their needs above my own as I am most well known to do. How many supremists do you know puts others above themselves. I know of none. You have proved to be nothing more than a Fictional Internet critter. You have Absolutely no idea who the Fuck I am and your insults are warrantless. You appear to be a Flamebaiting Troll which unfortunately I fed into.

(Interesting how you are pretty descent at twisting the words around to suit your needs)

No I'm not comparing Chirac to Hitler, pay attention. He insulted me, so I stooped to his low level of hate by insulting him back.

By equating him to "the French." You know, the surrender-monkeys who wouldn't invade Iraq alongside us. The trouble is, King, most folks are over that. I think even the cafeteria in the Capitol Building is serving "French Fries" again.

How many racists, supremacists, bigots, etc... would open his house to a father and son in need of a place to stay (both Cubans) and also a Korean Lady, who at first was pregnant and now has a baby girl) in need of a place to stay after seperating from her husband? I know of none.

I set aside my own prejudices of kids to allow the father and 3 yr old Cuban to move in. I knew that kids don't know how to treat dogs which I have 2 of. I put their needs above my own as I am most well known to do. How many supremists do you know puts others above themselves. I know of none. You have proved to be nothing more than a Fictional Internet critter. You have Absolutely no idea who the Fuck I am and your insults are warrantless. You appear to be a Flamebaiting Troll which unfortunately I fed into.

(Interesting how you are pretty descent at twisting the words around to suit your needs)

Yes yes, your best friends are black, we know. It doesn't mean a thing.

Today's racism isn't the racism of the 1800s, or even so near as the 50s. It's not "no blacks allowed" or "whites only" anymore. But some of that still exists.

No, racism has developed a far more friendly disposition these days. It's not the racism of yesterday, oh no, it's the "sure I don't have anything against you, no I'm not a racist, I have nothing against you at all, but you will understand when you get stopped at security YET AGAIN while I coast through after all? Yes I know you didn't do anything, but it's, you know, 'your kind' that is attacking us after all. We are at war after all, it's for the good of the country, I'm sure you understand" racism of today.

How many racists, supremacists, bigots, etc... would open his house to a father and son in need of a place to stay (both Cubans) and also a Korean Lady, who at first was pregnant and now has a baby girl) in need of a place to stay after seperating from her husband? I know of none.

Well, looks like I now know one, doesn't it!

Your rebuttal here is sorta like, "I'm not a racist, I have black friends."


You have proved to be nothing more than a Fictional Internet critter. You have Absolutely no idea who the Fuck I am and your insults are warrantless. You appear to be a Flamebaiting Troll which unfortunately I fed into.

Hey, if you want to deny that you value Iraqi lives to be less than one-tenth the value of American lives, go ahead. Your policies say otherwise though. It doesn't matter how many Korean women you've got stored away.

If you didn't want "insults," perhaps you shouldn't have rampaged into this thread calling EVERYONE who disagrees with your position "brainwashed," implied they are too stupid to understand the depths of your genius, dismissed them outright and then ignored every single point made by others.

(Interesting how you are pretty descent at twisting the words around to suit your needs)

I'm quoting you directly and responding to what you say and what your apparent reasoning is. I'm not "twisting" a damn thing and if you think so, maybe it's time you started realizing that what you say is actually read by other people - and no, we're not fictional, any more than those 30,000 dead Iraqis are fictional.

It is my sincerest wish that this leads to more challlenges and that the vile piece of legislation misnamed the patriot act be repealed, with a new bill that respects individual rights and abides by the rules set by the constitution be passed to fight terrorism without fighting our rights.

Yes yes, your best friends are black, we know. It doesn't mean a thing.

Today's racism isn't the racism of the 1800s, or even so near as the 50s. It's not "no blacks allowed" or "whites only" anymore. But some of that still exists.

No, racism has developed a far more friendly disposition these days. It's not the racism of yesterday, oh no, it's the "sure I don't have anything against you, no I'm not a racist, I have nothing against you at all, but you will understand when you get stopped at security YET AGAIN while I coast through after all? Yes I know you didn't do anything, but it's, you know, 'your kind' that is attacking us after all. We are at war after all, it's for the good of the country, I'm sure you understand" racism of today.

Whites didn't fly the planes into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania.

It is my sincerest wish that this leads to more challlenges and that the vile piece of legislation misnamed the patriot act be repealed, with a new bill that respects individual rights and abides by the rules set by the constitution be passed to fight terrorism without fighting our rights.

Quite right. And I hope any new legislation is conservative in the extreme and touches only those areas - such as port security, to name one - that need addressing.

Whites didn't fly the planes into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania.

Nor do they blow up federal buildings in Oklahoma City. Or plant bombs in their shoes. Or send explosive devices through the mail. Or bomb abortion clinics, or assassinate presidents...

.....

shit.

Congratulations, ya just proved my point.

Ted Kazinski, Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVay, Richard Reed, more acts of terrorism have been attempted in this country by whites than non whites.

You fail, try again.

Whites didn't fly the planes into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania.

No, I'm pretty damn sure that whites flew the plane into the field in Pennsylvania after taking control of the flight.

No, I'm pretty damn sure that whites flew the plane into the field in Pennsylvania after taking control of the flight.

ok that just made me laugh.

No, I'm pretty damn sure that whites flew the plane into the field in Pennsylvania after taking control of the flight.

Yep, those whities took over that plane and crashed it to ensure the deaths of those damned Americans on that plane

:rolleyes:

Yep, those whities took over that plane and crashed it to ensure the deaths of those damned Americans on that plane

:rolleyes:

I mean, it's not like it takes any skill to fly a plane. O WAI

Whites didn't fly the planes into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania.

That's a good point - and it surely proves conclusively that white people are angels, non-white people are barbarians. Thanks for enlightening everyone here!! :rolleyes:

Nor do they blow up federal buildings in Oklahoma City. Or plant bombs in their shoes. Or send explosive devices through the mail. Or bomb abortion clinics, or assassinate presidents...

.....

shit.

Congratulations, ya just proved my point.

Ted Kazinski, Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVay, Richard Reed, more acts of terrorism have been attempted in this country by whites than non whites.

You fail, try again.

But none of them managed to kill 3,000 Americans in one fell swoop.

Well, four nigh-simultaneous swoops, but you know what I mean.

Yep, those whities took over that plane and crashed it to ensure the deaths of those damned Americans on that plane

:rolleyes:

aw now that's not what you said now was it?

Don't get snippy because you didn't clarify. And I'm still waiting on your explanation as to how kazinsky, mcveigh, oswald and reed were "non white"

But none of them managed to kill 3,000 Americans in one fell swoop.

Well, four nigh-simultaneous swoops, but you know what I mean.

So your point is that Arabs are more COMPETENT at what they put their minds to than whites? o_O

But none of them managed to kill 3,000 Americans in one fell swoop.

Well, four nigh-simultaneous swoops, but you know what I mean.

Ahhh, but it took 12 people to kill 3000, that's 250 apiece.

McVeigh managed to kill about 180 all by himself.

What's the cutoff per capita? Somewhere between 180 and 250 apparently, but I'd like to know where.

Ahhh, but it took 12 people to kill 3000, that's 250 apiece.

If you count all the planes, it took 19.

If you count all the planes, it took 19.

oh hell even better. 3000 people across 19 terrorists means that each terrorist averaged 157 deaths.

McVeigh beat each one of em.

Ahhh, but it took 12 people to kill 3000, that's 250 apiece.

McVeigh managed to kill about 180 all by himself.

What's the cutoff per capita? Somewhere between 180 and 250 apparently, but I'd like to know where.

1 is too many.

McVeigh, however, was not part of an international organization whose intent is to destroy America (and the West in general, but American in particular).

oh hell even better. 3000 people across 19 terrorists means that each terrorist averaged 157 deaths.

McVeigh beat each one of em.

So even the possible point of Arabs being more competent at slaughter is nil? Mmm, what's the other possible point he had?

1 is too many.

McVeigh, however, was not part of an international organization whose intent is to destroy America (and the West in general, but American in particular).

what, exactly, do you think an anti government militia is all about?

1 is too many.

McVeigh, however, was not part of an international organization whose intent is to destroy America (and the West in general, but American in particular).

Is that the best semantic argument you can come up with???

McVeigh had just as much hatred of the US government in his heart as any of the 9/11 hijackers.

The only difference between them is that McVeigh was a white christian. The worst part is that the patriot act probably wouldn't have caught him either.

1 is too many.

Gee, it would be SO hypocritical if that thought didn't apply to Iraqi civilians as well. Good thing it does, right?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-03-01-opposing-view_x.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_Act

wait, next your going to say that blacks are enemies of our country too.
because what is it again percentage wise there are more black and brown criminals than white criminals or something?
sure that is, ones who get caught.
but are you forgetting that again all the white ceos who stole money from there companies? or does that not count even thoguh they stole millions of dollars more?
or how about people liek ed gien? he was white right? how about all the people he killed, do they not count? jack the ripper? let me gues doesnt count eihter.
_________________________________________________________________

i do not liek the white man when he is up in me
he rape all my women as he rape my country
woh yeah woh yeah, kill all the white men
woh yeah woh yeah, kill all the white men

Gee, it would be SO hypocritical if that thought didn't apply to Iraqi civilians as well. Good thing it does, right?

Every death is a tragedy, no matter the nationality.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-03-01-opposing-view_x.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_Act

you know, the whole idea that a guy just got a 2 million, that's MILLION dollar settlement from the US kinda skews the whole "nobody's rights got violated" angle, JUST a tad, wouldn't you say?

ok that just made me laugh.

So it's funny to you when a plane of civilians crashes in a field?

So it's funny to you when a plane of civilians crashes in a field?

that's a beautiful strawman. Must keep the crows away nicely.

Every death is a tragedy, no matter the nationality.

Then I'll assume you oppose lots of things your government is currently doing.

So it's funny to you when a plane of civilians crashes in a field?

Come on, can't you do better than that? You call civilians collateral damage, it's not that different from laughing.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-03-01-opposing-view_x.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_Act

WHA???? You're pulling up a USA Today article from back in MARCH!?!?!?!? Dude, the article I cited was from THIS MORNING!!! Get on the ball or get out of the pool!

EDIT: emphasis added to the paper KB was citing, the second biggect rag in the country following the moonie times.

wait, next your going to say that blacks are enemies of our country too.
because what is it again percentage wise there are more black and brown criminals than white criminals or something?
sure that is, ones who get caught.
but are you forgetting that again all the white ceos who stole money from there companies? or does that not count even thoguh they stole millions of dollars more?
or how about people liek ed gien? he was white right? how about all the people he killed, do they not count? jack the ripper? let me gues doesnt count eihter.
_________________________________________________________________

i do not liek the white man when he is up in me
he rape all my women as he rape my country
woh yeah woh yeah, kill all the white men
woh yeah woh yeah, kill all the white men

We never said blacks are enemies of our country.

CEO's aren't all corrupt, despite the massive coverage of those that do get caught.

Yes, they're taken into account (Jack the Ripper wasn't American, by the way, unless you refer to the whole world and not the US; if that's the case, I misread your post and apologize)

And, that last bit of your post doesn't scare me at all... :rolleyes:

We never said blacks are enemies of our country.

CEO's aren't all corrupt, despite the massive coverage of those that do get caught.

Yes, they're taken into account (Jack the Ripper wasn't American, by the way, unless you refer to the whole world and not the US; if that's the case, I misread your post and apologize)

And, that last bit of your post doesn't scare me at all... :rolleyes:

first of all, im talking about worldwide, as the ppl on 9/11 werent american either.

not all ceos are corrupt, not all arabs are terrorists.
and, the last part was my signature. its a song by NoFX (a band of whites) and posted by me (a white) but il cahnge it if you wish.
_________________________________________________________________

some of those hold office, are the same that burn crosses.
UGH! killing in the name of

Then I'll assume you oppose lots of things your government is currently doing.

No, not necessarily. Civilian deaths are regrettable and tragedies, of course, I'll never deny that. However, when the terrorists use them as virtual human shields, it's impossible to avoid civilian deaths, even though we try as hard as is humanly (and currently technologically) possible.

It's a sad state, to be sure, where we are now. At least the Japanese (in WWII) were going to openly use their civilians as civilian-soldiers when the Allies were going to march on mainland Japan. These terrorists use their own neighbors to destroy America's morale in this war. They're succeeding tremendously.

The terrorists are using our Freedoms to their advantages to commit atrocities both the House and the Senate (Republicans and your highness of Democrats) both overwhelming put the Patriot Act into Play, President Bush was the Lone Law passer. The USA Patriot Act has been put into play to better our law enforcement agencies to fight against the terrorists.

Thank God for the Patriot Act.

The terrorists are using our Freedoms to their advantages to commit atrocities both the House and the Senate (Republicans and your highness of Democrats) both overwhelming put the Patriot Act into Play, President Bush was the Lone Law passer. The USA Patriot Act has been put into play to better our law enforcement agencies to fight against the terrorists.

Thank God for the Patriot Act.

The terrorists are using our freedoms to take our freedoms away. In order to preserve our freedoms, we must destroy our freedoms so the terrorists don't use our freedoms to take away our freedoms, which we preserve by destroying. Because we value our freedoms.

That's beyond doublethink, that's quintuplethink!

No, not necessarily. Civilian deaths are regrettable and tragedies, of course, I'll never deny that. However, when the terrorists use them as virtual human shields, it's impossible to avoid civilian deaths, even though we try as hard as is humanly (and currently technologically) possible.

It's a sad state, to be sure, where we are now. At least the Japanese (in WWII) were going to openly use their civilians as civilian-soldiers when the Allies were going to march on mainland Japan. These terrorists use their own neighbors to destroy America's morale in this war. They're succeeding tremendously.

You ignore my point yet again.

Timothey McVeigh killed more people in an act of terrorism than any single arab terrorist has in this country, EVER. Even all 3000 deaths of 9/11, when divided amongst the 19 hijackers, amounted to LESS deaths per person than McVeigh did BY HIMSELF.

The problem is, if we're going to use McVeigh as a blueprint for what a terrorist looks like, we'd have to profile just about every guy in the military

The terrorists are using our freedoms to take our freedoms away. In order to preserve our freedoms, we must destroy our freedoms so the terrorists don't use our freedoms to take away our freedoms, which we preserve by destroying.


I really think I need to sig this...

not all ceos are corrupt

I would agree with this, look at the CEO of Timberland, or the inventor of the segway

first of all, im talking about worldwide, as the ppl on 9/11 werent american either.

not all ceos are corrupt, not all arabs are terrorists.
and, the last part was my signature. its a song by NoFX (a band of whites) and posted by me (a white) but il cahnge it if you wish.
_________________________________________________________________

some of those hold office, are the same that burn crosses.
UGH! killing in the name of

Ah, then I did misread. Again, I apologize.

Yes, true, not all Arabs are terrorists. However, as the left loves to waive around, more terrorists are created every day. Which means that it's a very strong possiblity that there are far more Arab terrorists than white/black/oh-I-don't-know,-fill-in-the-blank terrorists, which happens to be the point I was driving at earlier.

I really think I need to sig this...

Added something. Sig now if you wish. :D

Ah, then I did misread. Again, I apologize.

Yes, true, not all Arabs are terrorists. However, as the left loves to waive around, more terrorists are created every day. Which means that it's a very strong possiblity that there are far more Arab terrorists than white/black/oh-I-don't-know,-fill-in-the-blank terrorists, which happens to be the point I was driving at earlier.

The amount of jews in this country grows every day.

Is it a very strong possibility that most people are jews?

The two don't necessarily correlate.

And once again not one single terrorist has been so successful per capita than our good ole white christian boy timmy mcveigh.

1 is too many.

McVeigh, however, was not part of an international organization whose intent is to destroy America (and the West in general, but American in particular).

Well you know, on further reflection it is true, McVeigh wasn't like a lot of other muslim extreemists that supported Sadam and such. At least he never wrote something like this:

The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons (“weapons of mass destruction”) — mainly because they have used them in the past.
Well, if that’s the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.S. is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterrent purposes during the “Cold War” with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterrence) — with respect to Iraq’s (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?
…
If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of “mass destruction” — like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?
The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction

You ignore my point yet again.

Timothey McVeigh killed more people in an act of terrorism than any single arab terrorist has in this country, EVER. Even all 3000 deaths of 9/11, when divided amongst the 19 hijackers, amounted to LESS deaths per person than McVeigh did BY HIMSELF.

The problem is, if we're going to use McVeigh as a blueprint for what a terrorist looks like, we'd have to profile just about every guy in the military

I wasn't addressing your post.

Then don't look at it per capita. The fact is Tim killed... what... 100 something (I don't remember exactly) at once, while those 19 hijackers killed roughly 3,000. Please, don't lessen their deaths (any of them).

The military don't go after people who aren't trying to do either them or their country harm. There are exceptions of course (Abu Ghraib comes to mind), but you can't generalize based on that. That, plus they don't go around trying to kill as many civilians as they can before being killed themselves, plain and simple.

I wasn't addressing your post.

Then don't look at it per capita. The fact is Tim killed... what... 100 something (I don't remember exactly) at once, while those 19 hijackers killed roughly 3,000. Please, don't lessen their deaths (any of them).

180. One man killed 180. 19 men killed 3,000. He was the far more efficient terrorist.

Why do I start to think the moment he is no longer news he will have a very convinient heart attack or a traffic accident?

180. One man killed 180. 19 men killed 3,000. He was the far more efficient terrorist.

And, I have to reiterate that the law enforcment bolstered by patriot act would likely have missed him anyway, because he was white, christian, ex-military, and an american citizen. So, in essence, the whole USA patriot act is worthless on its face.

180. One man killed 180. 19 men killed 3,000. He was the far more efficient terrorist.

I'm looking at quantity, not quality.

If Tim decided to get 18 friends together and managed to kill 2,999 people, I'd consider that a greater tragedy than what he did alone, because even though it is "less efficient," he (and his friends) killed alot more people than he would have if he had only worked alone.

So, despite his "efficiency," the 3,000 dead is far, far worse than the 180 (though, again, their deaths are tragic as well).

And, I have to reiterate that the law enforcment bolstered by patriot act would likely have missed him anyway, because he was white, christian, ex-military, and an american citizen. So, in essence, the whole USA patriot act is worthless on its face.

We can't possibly nose into every American citizen's life. The cost and waste of manpower (not everyone wants to destroy America) is astronomical, plus the ACLU will be screaming "BLOODY MURDER," and would oppose such a move with medieval religious zeal (kind of like how they are now, but a little stronger).

What the Patriot Act tries to do is identify those with strong ties to terrorist movements (or ties to people with ties) and find out if they're up to suspicious activity.

I'm looking at quantity, not quality.

If Tim decided to get 18 friends together and managed to kill 2,999 people, I'd consider that a greater tragedy than what he did alone, because even though it is "less efficient," he (and his friends) killed alot more people than he would have if he had only worked alone.

If Tim got 18 friends of his own caliber together, they'd kill 3420 people. That's the point being made.

We can't possibly nose into every American citizen's life. The cost and waste of manpower (not everyone wants to destroy America) is astronomical, plus the ACLU will be screaming "BLOODY MURDER," and would oppose such a move with medieval religious zeal (kind of like how they are now, but a little stronger).

What the Patriot Act tries to do is identify those with strong ties to terrorist movements (or ties to people with ties) and find out if they're up to suspicious activity.

well some job they did with brandon mayfield.
strong ties he had huh.
_________________________________________________________________
and all that you touch
and all that you see
is all your life will ever be

If Tim got 18 friends of his own caliber together, they'd kill 3420 people. That's the point being made.

Unless you're an economist (discontinuity of scale).

But the fact of the matter is, he only killed 180ish people; that, while still a tragedy, is diminished by the fact that 19 men banded together and killed roughly 3,000 people. The fact that he killed more people, per capita, is unimportant.

well some job they did with brandon mayfield.
strong ties he had huh.
_________________________________________________________________
and all that you touch
and all that you see
is all your life will ever be

I'm not saying it's perfect.

Unless you're an economist (discontinuity of scale).

But the fact of the matter is, he only killed 180ish people; that, while still a tragedy, is diminished by the fact that 19 men banded together and killed roughly 3,000 people. The fact that he killed more people, per capita, is unimportant.

Okay, so far you only managed to make one point on the "differences between Arabs and whites", the point being "Arabs are better at what they put their minds to than whites because they unite themselves to a goal". :p

Okay, so far you only managed to make one point on the "differences between Arabs and whites", the point being "Arabs are better at what they put their minds to than whites because they unite themselves to a goal". :p

Unite themselves to the killing of innocents in this case, which isn't much of a compliment.

I'm just saying that killing 3,000 people is more of a tragedy than 180

I haven't even talked about differences between whites and Arabs so far.

I'm not saying it's perfect.

and im not saying it has to be.
what it should be(assuming it should exist at all, which it shouldnt) is as effective as possible,or even effective at all. and its not.
_________________________________________________________________
The lie is my expense
The scope with my desire
The party blessed me with its future
And i protect it with fire
I am the nina, the pinta, the santa maria
The noose and the rapist, the fields overseer
The agents of orange
The priests of hiroshima
The cost of my desire
Sleep now in the fire

and im not saying it has to be.
what it should be(assuming it should exist at all, which it shouldnt) is as effective as possible,or even effective at all. and its not.
_________________________________________________________________
The lie is my expense
The scope with my desire
The party blessed me with its future
And i protect it with fire
I am the nina, the pinta, the santa maria
The noose and the rapist, the fields overseer
The agents of orange
The priests of hiroshima
The cost of my desire
Sleep now in the fire

It should definately exist; the major problem is that our enemies don't sit in the open; many times, they are impossible to identify (i.e. McVeigh, the government would not have found anything that would say that he'd so something like he did). To be "effective" would cost, like I said before, a massive amount of time, resources, and man power which would actually be far, far more than is worth spending (and I believe that we should spend a lot on national defense, to put things into perspective) even though we'd be catching more people (in theory).

so basically youre jsut going to take away the freedom to privacy of CERTAIN ppl, based on superficial things such as nationality, ethnicity or religion, and jsut hope it works out. when the numbers show that those people are not the only people who look to due damage to our "freedom"
_________________________________________________________________
they say jump and you say how high
youre brain dead, ya got f*cking bullet in ya head

Unite themselves to the killing of innocents in this case, which isn't much of a compliment.

I'm just saying that killing 3,000 people is more of a tragedy than 180

I haven't even talked about differences between whites and Arabs so far.

Actually, you had said that as a muslim/middle-eastern to white difference before.

And I was just pointing out that whites and muslims can be just as psychopatic, only, and that was the only thing you managed to make as a point, muslims more united and whites "shining individually" if you will.

If Tim got 18 friends of his own caliber together, they'd kill 3420 people. That's the point being made.

no they wouldn't

you see, the 19 hijackers were split among four planes. not 19 planes or 19 seperate acts. so the estamate of 3000 should not be divided by 19, but 4 (for each plane.)

leaving the total of each plane being 750 persons.

the only way Tim Mcveigh could've done better (for lack of a better term) would be to fly those four planes into the towers at the height of the workday... say 11:00 or even 2:00 p.m. where the offices would be full and you'll even have shoppers, tours and tourists in the buildings.

The one thing everyone misses, is that the 9/11 hijackers, Tim McVeigh and other terrorist attacks on US persons and soil all had one thing in common. they exploited holes and lapes in our security. after Timmy the Terrible's act, all vehicles were searched and no street parking was allowed near Federal/State buildings after that.

After 9/11, airport security was tightened and other steps were taken (not just the Patriot Act.)

those lapes in security were filled up and blocked, now I'm not saying the Patriot Act is a Bible, but it's something that was done in response to the glowing failures of our Intelligence community (CIA, FBI, INS, etc...)

so granted, mistakes have been made, and reparations will be handed out. but it's better to make mistakes to insure safety than to not do anything and have what happened in London and Madrid occur when it's known that Terrorists (of all types) are capable of handing out destruction on a Mass Scale.

Is anyone questioning how those attacks on London got through even tho they (the Government) were made aware that terrorist attacks were possible to all Western Civilizations?

What of Madrid? that happened during the Iraq War, Granted it was not done by the Muslims, but the fact that with supposed Hightened Security, the attack was still made... or did Spain and London not tighten Security for their citizens?

People harp on the USA for "Over-reacting" yet no one wonders how the London and Madrid bombings could've happened at a time of High Tension unless security was, in fact, not tightened, not improved upon because the Government had a "It won't happen to us" mentality.

The one thing everyone misses, is that the 9/11 hijackers, Tim McVeigh and other terrorist attacks on US persons and soil all had one thing in common. they exploited holes and lapes in our security. after Timmy the Terrible's act, all vehicles were searched and no street parking was allowed near Federal/State buildings after that.

After 9/11, airport security was tightened and other steps were taken (not just the Patriot Act.)

those lapes in security were filled up and blocked, now I'm not saying the Patriot Act is a Bible, but it's something that was done in response to the glowing failures of our Intelligence community (CIA, FBI, INS, etc...)

so granted, mistakes have been made, and reparations will be handed out. but it's better to make mistakes to insure safety than to not do anything and have what happened in London and Madrid occur when it's known that Terrorists (of all types) are capable of handing out destruction on a Mass Scale.

Is anyone questioning how those attacks on London got through even tho they (the Government) were made aware that terrorist attacks were possible to all Western Civilizations?

What of Madrid? that happened during the Iraq War, Granted it was not done by the Muslims, but the fact that with supposed Hightened Security, the attack was still made... or did Spain and London not tighten Security for their citizens?

People harp on the USA for "Over-reacting" yet no one wonders how the London and Madrid bombings could've happened at a time of High Tension unless security was, in fact, not tightened, not improved upon because the Government had a "It won't happen to us" mentality.

But FISA was fine, if used as it was intended it would fill those gaps properly. A new set of laws that essentially allowed the government to declare its own people terrorists with little to no probable cause was not only unwarrented, but also a frightening abuse of the very things it's supposed to stand for.

Well you know, on further reflection it is true, McVeigh wasn't like a lot of other muslim extreemists that supported Sadam and such. At least he never wrote something like this:

If were to invade Iran you'd still be talking trash against the USA if we were to invade N. Korea you'd still be ranting about the evil USA oppressors. If we do anything you will still be crying your rights are being violated and whatnot..... :rolleyes:

If Tim got 18 friends of his own caliber together, they'd kill 3420 people. That's the point being made.

If, if, and what if, Only if, could if, would if..........:rolleyes:

But FISA was fine, if used as it was intended it would fill those gaps properly. A new set of laws that essentially allowed the government to declare its own people terrorists with little to no probable cause was not only unwarrented, but also a frightening abuse of the very things it's supposed to stand for.
No, FISA wasn't fine. it failed on many counts because of information mismanagement and the Compartmentalizing of each of the Intelligence Branches. basically, it became another branch that started vying for funding and power just like the CIA, FBI and others. Instead of working together, all those Intelligence agencies stopped sharing information and 19 men fell through those cracks.

for the USA's Intelligence Community, Ben Franklin's words never rang truer... "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

I got an idea....what if we just disarm our entire law enforcement agencies? Let's give them cap guns...:rolleyes: All they do is violate our civil rights, anyways. :rolleyes:
What if we cut the Defence budget by....let's say....100%? What if we completely do away with our airport security (they're just a waste of time and violates everybodies privacy anyways)? What if we send all of our Nukes to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean? What if we just do away with all the laws on the books?............:rolleyes:

Heck, I know why don't we just give the ALL Great UN complete control over the United States of America. Heck we could call it the "United Nations States of America." :rolleyes:

No, FISA wasn't fine. it failed on many counts because of information mismanagement and the Compartmentalizing of each of the Intelligence Branches. basically, it became another branch that started vying for funding and power just like the CIA, FBI and others. Instead of working together, all those Intelligence agencies stopped sharing information and 19 men fell through those cracks.

for the USA's Intelligence Community, Ben Franklin's words never rang truer... "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Franklin also said something that has been said many times on this forum, something about freedom and security. I'm sure you know what that is without me having to repeat it again.

I would rather take the risk of another attack than live under this law. All that needs to be done is to integrate the information networks of the law enforcment agencies, adn ise FISA in the way it was intended.

I got an idea....what if we just disarm our entire law enforcement agencies? Let's give them cap guns...:rolleyes:
What if we cut the Defence budget by....let's say....100%? What if we complete do away with our airport security (they're just a waste of time and violates everybodies privacy anyways)? What if we send all of our Nukes to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean? What if we just do away with all the laws on the books?............:rolleyes:

Tard.

Franklin also said something that has been said many times on this forum, something about freedom and security. I'm sure you know what that is without me having to repeat it again.

I would rather take the risk of another attack than live under this law. All that needs to be done is to integrate the information networks of the law enforcment agencies, adn ise FISA in the way it was intended.

yep. and look at what happened. We laxed on Security and gave more liberties and 9/11 and the Oklahoma city bombing occured.

so you are saying that those 3000+ dead is preferable to you than longer lines at the Airport and a further walk to a Federal/State building...

I got an idea....what if we just disarm our entire law enforcement agencies? Let's give them cap guns...:rolleyes:
What if we cut the Defence budget by....let's say....100%? What if we complete do away with our airport security (they're just a waste of time and violates everybodies privacy anyways)? What if we send all of our Nukes to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean? What if we just do away with all the laws on the books?............:rolleyes:

abolishment of the Patriot Act=/=Anarchy.

You've blown stuff so out of proportion I hardly know what your talking about, then again, I strongly suspect that neither do you...

yep. and look at what happened. We laxed on Security and gave more liberties and 9/11 and the Oklahoma city bombing occured.

so you are saying that those 3000+ dead is preferable to you than longer lines at the Airport and a further walk to a Federal/State building...

No, I'm saying that it's preferable to the idea that I could be taken off the street for something that I might have said in a phone call, or a book that I bought, or by hanging out with people on some watch list. Just look at what happened to Brandon Mayfield. I would rather be the unfortunate victim of a random terror attack and die free.

abolishment of the Patriot Act=/=Anarchy.

You've blown stuff so out of proportion I hardly know what your talking about, then again, I strongly suspect that neither do you...

Actually, the way some of the people here they act because of the very few that are actually running into the problems of civil right violations that it amounts to all. Lamans terms: example: Mayfield = Everybody's civil rights violated :rolleyes:

Actually, the way some of the people here they act because of the very few that are actually running into the problems of civil right violations that it amounts to all. Lamans terms: example: Mayfield = Everybody's civil rights violated :rolleyes:

Dude, you've reached a new level of thickness. If it happens to one of us, it happens to us all. Why did he have to be wrongly imprisoned to protect your freedom?

If we only lived in a Perfect world.

I am still in FULL Support of the Patriot Act. So many terrorists plots has been obstructed and the Patriot Act deserves thanks.

One of America's biggest problems is that the American's as a whole are taking life for granted. They are no more than a bunch of spoiled, mouthy brats. Every American is spoiled, me included. I just wish they realized how Good they truly have it. It's sad because a lot don't realize how Good we got it. We truly have been blessed as a Nation. We are most definately spoiled, I don't care how poor the Americans or how rich they are. We are all spoiled and take life for granted.

Dude, you've reached a new level of thickness. If it happens to one of us, it happens to us all. Why did he have to be wrongly imprisoned to protect your freedom?

an error was made. News Flash: Our Law Enforcement Officer's of all Agencies are Human. Mistakes do and will happen. We must learn from our mistakes. As for this guy, hey atleast he's getting paid. If he budgets his money right he won't have to work another day in his life. I say again, only IF we lived in a perfect world?

an error was made. News Flash: Our Law Enforcement Officer's of all Agencies are Human. Mistakes do and will happen. We must learn from our mistakes. As for this guy, hey atleast he's getting paid. If he budgets his money right he won't have to work another day in his life. I say again, only IF we lived in a perfect world?


The world doesn't need to be perfect in order to realize that it should never have gotten to the point where he was put in jail at all. And saying "shit happens" won't give him that stolen time back. The single best thing we as a country we can do is to make sure that it never happens again. And, the first, best step in that process is to abolish the instrument of it.

No, I'm saying that it's preferable to the idea that I could be taken off the street for something that I might have said in a phone call, or a book that I bought, or by hanging out with people on some watch list. Just look at what happened to Brandon Mayfield. I would rather be the unfortunate victim of a random terror attack and die free.Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brandon Mayfield was arrested because he was mis-identified by a partial Fingerprint found at the Madrid Bombing.

so how does what happened to Brandon Mayfield have to do with a book that you bought, what you might say on a phone call, or hanging out with people on some watch list?

Two weeks after Mayfield's arrest, Spanish investigators linked the fingerprint to an Algerian national. Mayfield was released from custody the same day. meaning he was released when the error was detected. the same any law enforcement agency would do if they did make a mistake.

and where is the evidence of any electronic tapping? one shoe print (ok, maybe a set of footprints) and the feeling of being watched... does that prove that they were tapped, or does it just prove that someone broke into their home?

Now granted, there are books out there as well as web sites that are monitored by various Law enforcement Agencies... Including unoffical ones like Perverted Justice. Granted there are rumors of Illegal Wiretappings by Big Brother Bush, but so far, no evidence of such activities actually taking place.

So the question is, is the prision you see being build by the Government actually being built by the Government? or the Media that continuously broadcasts Shock Stories to score ratings?

Are the chains you feel being secured on your person by the Shrub's Administration? or by yourself as you listen to the Media?

im way too tired to write too much, but il say this:
who has the patriot act actually caught? what has it stopped, has stopped actualy terrorist threats? no it hasnt. its nothing but a load of propaganda. so dont act like its even making the country safer.

oh and on a side note. why is everyone so hostile to eachother? common everybody be friendly. peace and love man. isnt that whats its all about?
_________________________________________________________________~peace love and anarchy
-the man whos old the world

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brandon Mayfield was arrested because he was mis-identified by a partial Fingerprint found at the Madrid Bombing.

so how does what happened to Brandon Mayfield have to do with a book that you bought, what you might say on a phone call, or hanging out with people on some watch list?

meaning he was released when the error was detected. the same any law enforcement agency would do if they did make a mistake.

and where is the evidence of any electronic tapping? one shoe print (ok, maybe a set of footprints) and the feeling of being watched... does that prove that they were tapped, or does it just prove that someone broke into their home?

Now granted, there are books out there as well as web sites that are monitored by various Law enforcement Agencies... Including unoffical ones like Perverted Justice. Granted there are rumors of Illegal Wiretappings by Big Brother Bush, but so far, no evidence of such activities actually taking place.

So the question is, is the prision you see being build by the Government actually being built by the Government? or the Media that continuously broadcasts Shock Stories to score ratings?

Are the chains you feel being secured on your person by the Shrub's Administration? or by yourself as you listen to the Media?


The only "media" attention I've seen or heard about this law has been the ringing endorsments of it, and the near literal beating down of critics.

In the end I don't feel any safer. And, in fact, I am more fearful of the government than before. Why do they need this level of unchecked power over it's citizens? Vigorous enforcment of law that had existed before this would have gone further toward securing the country. We don't need it, and it would appear that a large number of us don't WANT it.

The only "media" attention I've seen or heard about this law has been the ringing endorsments of it, and the near literal beating down of critics.

In the end I don't feel any safer. And, in fact, I am more fearful of the government than before. Why do they need this level of unchecked power over it's citizens? Vigorous enforcment of law that had existed before this would have gone further toward securing the country. We don't need it, and it would appear that a large number of us don't WANT it.

Oh really? none at all?

what news station do you watch, Man, CNN, FOX and MSNBC had their fill when the Patriot act was first enabled!

so... what did you change in your daily activities because of the Patriot Act?

Oh, and in response to Anderson council's multiple :p plea... no hard feelings eh?

Oh really? none at all?

what news station do you watch, Man, CNN, FOX and MSNBC had their fill when the Patriot act was first enabled!

so... what did you change in your daily activities because of the Patriot Act?

Oh, and in response to Anderson council's multiple :p plea... no hard feelings eh?

Well, I had to retake my driver's licence test and pay for it all over again because of it. I had to give an inordinant amount of private information to all of my utility companies because of it. That's more than enough to get me worried about what else they're looking into. I'm no terrorist, but there's enough bad stuff in my background that I don't want some government pencil pusher looking at it out of context.

Actually, the way some of the people here they act because of the very few that are actually running into the problems of civil right violations that it amounts to all. Lamans terms: example: Mayfield = Everybody's civil rights violated :rolleyes:

yeah, it's a pretty stupid idea after all, it sounds like these people are saying an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, and who would believe something as stupid as that? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king)

Well, I had to retake my driver's licence test and pay for it all over again because of it.so before the Patriot act, you never had to pay for your Driver's licence test? and why did you have to retake it?
I had to renew my licence, and I didn't take the test, nor did I have to pay more than what I had to pay before the Patriot Act.
I had to give an inordinant amount of private information to all of my utility companies because of it. and the Utility companies stated that it was because of the Patriot Act? funny, I didn't do that with my utility companies.
That's more than enough to get me worried about what else they're looking into. I'm no terrorist, but there's enough bad stuff in my background that I don't want some government pencil pusher looking at it out of context.and you choose to do those bad stuff right?
I'm willing to bet that unless those bad stuff was really unusual, it won't trip any red flags with the Government. After all, the patriot act has been in effect for about 4 years now.

Ave,

First, the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, which, therefore should be taken off the books.

Its a variation of the Fifth Amendment *?* on how it is illegal for the military to be housed in a Citizen's home...and how a Citizen is permitted to be secure in their person, property and possessions...there is the wire-tapping bit for you.
*Personal Opinion, we will see what the Law Courts decide*

1.A - i think the term you guys were discussing is "racial profiling"?

Second, the Americans who took over the 9.11 plane, forcing it to crash in the field were Militia who took it upon themselves to defend the country the only way they could figure out...i believe that one was headed for the White House?

As for "why do you say they were Militia", well folks, look in your State Constitution, the REGULATED militia are the National Guard, the UNREGULATED MILITIA is everyone else (usually male, between the ages of 17-45)

They should have been awarded medals of bravery.

Thirdly, frack the "God Bless America", i would rather see "Long Live America" then be forced to abide by some other religion then my own. First Amendment of the USA is, in part "freedom of religion". And no, for the bazillionth-and-third time, the founders were not christian, swearing, gun fanatics.

Rant over, freedom of speech is better then $0.02. Its part of life,
"First Lord Rafe"
"Unuan Lordon Rafe"
The Rafe System
La Rafe Sistemon

I don't think it's the puppet of someone who actually believes this crap. I think it's something like the Drunk Commies/Jesussaves incident.
Yeah, that's why I thought it might be Bushanomics, because of the way he comes up with these perfectly packaged little nuggets of craziness. But I think Bushanomics was a puppet, too, though I don't know whose.

No, FISA wasn't fine. it failed on many counts because of information mismanagement and the Compartmentalizing of each of the Intelligence Branches. basically, it became another branch that started vying for funding and power just like the CIA, FBI and others. Instead of working together, all those Intelligence agencies stopped sharing information and 19 men fell through those cracks.

for the USA's Intelligence Community, Ben Franklin's words never rang truer... "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."
Ironically, Franklin said that in support of a violent revolution against a government, reminding his fellow revolutionaries that they had already dug themselves in so deep that abandoning the cause wouldn't save them.

You quoting it was ironic, but also completely appropriate to the irony (as well as ignorance) of a law that violates all the philosophical principles of America being called a "patriot" act.

Also, you are trying to use God as your personal political tool, and contradicting the peaceful message of Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour by advocating violence and hatred.

But you're not likely to change that mistake...

...and thus, God will never forgive you. And you will find out just how much His will is independent of your own petty politics and biases, too late for true redemption.

From what I read of his post, he said against the enemies....no where did he/she say "to smite/kill/maim/destroy the enemies of God..."

As for the peaceful message of Jesus Christ, if you don't believe in it yourself, don't try and use it against a Christian. You're just being a hypocrite at that point.

I'm glad the Patriot Act is there, it works and the government has admitted and edited it where it's made mistakes. Detaining people who seek to do our Nation harm, who seek to destroy what our nation is, is the right way to go. If you're planning a bombing in our country, if you're sending money to terror cells, if you sell intelligence, or aid and abet in any way or form with these terrorists; you deserve nothing more than to be locked in a dark cell, and forgotten about. At that point and time you have forfeited your rights as a citizen, or if you're not a citizen...you broke the law in a way that cannot be forgotten nor forgiven.

Remember, these people broke the law and they deserve nothing less than what they're getting.

Ironically, Franklin said that in support of a violent revolution against a government, reminding his fellow revolutionaries that they had already dug themselves in so deep that abandoning the cause wouldn't save them.

You quoting it was ironic, but also completely appropriate to the irony (as well as ignorance) of a law that violates all the philosophical principles of America being called a "patriot" act.

and you know what Muravyets? Had the American People actually hung together instead of screaming "Racial Profiling, Unfair treatment, it's [The Goverments] fault this happened!" the Patriot act would not have been needed, and neither would the Military Commission Acts of 2006.

From what I read of his post, he said against the enemies....no where did he/she say "to smite/kill/maim/destroy the enemies of God..."

I think I'll believe it when I hear him/her/it say that, unless of course you are a puppet of his or telepathic.

As for the peaceful message of Jesus Christ, if you don't believe in it yourself, don't try and use it against a Christian. You're just being a hypocrite at that point.

A hypocrite is:

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

I have done neither.


Detaining people who seek to do our Nation harm, who seek to destroy what our nation is, is the right way to go.

This is assisted by the fact that law enforcement is telepathic and knows exactly what crimes people intend to commit, thus they can "detain" them pre-emptively. Hooray precrime!

If you're planning a bombing in our country, if you're sending money to terror cells, if you sell intelligence, or aid and abet in any way or form with these terrorists; you deserve nothing more than to be locked in a dark cell, and forgotten about. At that point and time you have forfeited your rights as a citizen

Bullshit. The rights of a citizen are inalienable and self-evident.

If you think suspending them because one is SUSPECTED of INTENDING to commit terrorism is OK, how about other types of crimes? Murder, child molestation, jaywalking?

Or is terrorism so ungodly, so profoundly and qualitatively worse than everything else under the sun, that the suspicion alone thereof is enough to "de-right" (or should I say de-humanize) a citizen?

and you know what Muravyets? Had the American People actually hung together instead of screaming "Racial Profiling, Unfair treatment, it's [The Goverments] fault this happened!" the Patriot act would not have been needed, and neither would the Military Commission Acts of 2006.

Hahahaha! Man, the forum is funny tonight. You're right, of course -- if we had been fascists supporting a violent police state, we would already have had such laws, so we wouldn't have had to invent any. And we probably wouldn't have had any bullshit Constitution to get in the way, either.

Up the Revolution, Bitches!*





*that's another Franklin quote, but he was drunk at the time.

Hahahaha! Man, the forum is funny tonight. You're right, of course -- if we had been fascists supporting a violent police state, we would already have had such laws, so we wouldn't have had to invent any. And we probably wouldn't have had any bullshit Constitution to get in the way, either.

Up the Revolution, Bitches!*





*that's another Franklin quote, but he was drunk at the time.and if that's the only way you see US citizens hanging together with their Government, then I am very, very glad you are no where near any form of political power near where I live.

and if that's the only way you see US citizens hanging together with their Government, then I am very, very glad you are no where near any form of political power near where I live.

Wait, so the Patriot Act = US citizens hanging together with their G*overnment?

Yes I'm sure, it's all about singing kumbaya, holding hands and dancing in happy patriotic utopia. And anyone who opposes it is obviously just ... well, Unpatriotic! Right?







*(Why is "government" capitalized here? It's not a proper name and this is English. Since English is now our official language I hope you learn to use it, or you can go back to Guatamala or wherever else you came from to leech off our system!!)

and if that's the only way you see US citizens hanging together with their Government, then I am very, very glad you are no where near any form of political power near where I live.
How do you know?

But yes, I guess it must be scary when you don't recognize that I'm just treating that ridiculously shallow BS about "hanging together" with the sarcasm it deserves. What are you even talking about, JuNii? What did you expect Americans to do on 9/12? Run out of their houses, in a body, loot gun shops and commandeer planes to go attack the ebil muzlims? Or maybe run out to the costume shop for some nifty uniforms and -- what then? March en masse to Washington to rip up the Constitution for the President, so he wouldn't have to do it himself?

Gosh, I'm so sorry that not every American was willing to toss the entire US legal system out the window without question. I'm sorry that many Americans still expect their government to abide by and uphold the laws of the land, not jerry-rig loopholes so they can just ignore them.

Actually, I'm still being sarcastic. I'm not sorry at all, really.

Wait, so the Patriot Act = US citizens hanging together with their G*overnment?read back, I said the Patriot Act was because the US citizens were NOT allowing the Government to do what needed to be done in a time of emergency. so the Government, in order to do what must be done, had to grant themselves a special set of laws to get those things done.

Yes I'm sure, it's all about singing kumbaya, holding hands and dancing in happy patriotic utopia. And anyone who opposes it is obviously just ... well, Unpatriotic! Right?

*(Why is "government" capitalized here? It's not a proper name and this is English. Since English is now our official language I hope you learn to use it, or you can go back to Guatamala or wherever else you came from to leech off our system!!)same reason why you captialized the letter U. see you in Guatamala, I arrive after you do. ;)

How do you know?

But yes, I guess it must be scary when you don't recognize that I'm just treating that ridiculously shallow BS about "hanging together" with the sarcasm it deserves. which is SOOO evident on written text. :rolleyes:
What are you even talking about, JuNii? What did you expect Americans to do on 9/12? Run out of their houses, in a body, loot gun shops and commandeer planes to go attack the ebil muzlims? Or maybe run out to the costume shop for some nifty uniforms and -- what then? March en masse to Washington to rip up the Constitution for the President, so he wouldn't have to do it himself? again, if that's the ONLY way you see people supporting their government... :rolleyes:
Gosh, I'm so sorry that not every American was willing to toss the entire US legal system out the window without question. I'm sorry that many Americans still expect their government to abide by and uphold the laws of the land, not jerry-rig loopholes so they can just ignore them.

Actually, I'm still being sarcastic. I'm not sorry at all, really.
isn't it amazing how small and limited some people can be when it comes to the phrase "Support your government." that all they can think of is VIOLENCE and ANARCHY... the same things people think of when the phrase "Stand against your government" is used. Muravyets, so far you showed a true lack of imagination. or should I say the patterns of a true extremists. going from one extreme to the other with no thought.

read back, I said the Patriot Act was because the US citizens were NOT allowing the Government to do what needed to be done in a time of emergency. so the Government, in order to do what must be done, had to grant themselves a special set of laws to get those things done.

same reason why you captialized the letter U. see you in Guatamala, I arrive after you do. ;)

Right -- the American people were not allowing the government to pass and execute laws, not allowing the government to wage war in Afghanistan, not allowing the government to institute new screening and tracking methods at airports, not allowing the government to secretly and extra-legally spy on US citizens, not allowing the government to incarcerate prisoners without charges and with no legal rights in Guantanamo Bay or rendition prisoners to other countries for treatment that would not be legal here. And look how the American people put the kibosh on that Iraq thing.

Oh, wait...

JuNii, are you kidding us tonight? Do you understand that the US government does things by passing laws? Do you have any idea of how the US system works? Is this why you don't get it that critics of the government aren't complaining about the government passing laws, only about the government passing unconstitutional laws that are inconsistent with our system of law?

which is SOOO evident on written text. :rolleyes:
So, when people around here refer to God as being an invisible pink unicorn, you think they really believe in such a creature?

again, if that's the ONLY way you see people supporting their government... :rolleyes:
Still not an answer. If not that, then what would you have the American people do that they have not already done?

isn't it amazing how small and limited some people can be when it comes to the phrase "Support your government." that all they can think of is VIOLENCE and ANARCHY... the same things people think of when the phrase "Stand against your government" is used. Muravyets, so far you showed a true lack of imagination. or should I say the patterns of a true extremists. going from one extreme to the other with no thought.
You would know about lack of imagination, seeing as how you couldn't even spot the sarcasm in my hyperbolic post.

First of all, go back and read the thread. The phrase I made fun of was "hang together," not "support your government."

Second, I enjoy the way you fall back on meaningless dismissive generalizations about people you think/hope exist and are like me rather than answer any questions in defense of your argument. There was a question in amongst my sarcasm, and there's a question in in this post, above. Can you answer them? Or are you ready to admit you're just blowing smoke?

Right -- the American people were not allowing the government to pass and execute laws, not allowing the government to wage war in Afghanistan, not allowing the government to institute new screening and tracking methods at airports, not allowing the government to secretly and extra-legally spy on US citizens, not allowing the government to incarcerate prisoners without charges and with no legal rights in Guantanamo Bay or rendition prisoners to other countries for treatment that would not be legal here. And look how the American people put the kibosh on that Iraq thing.

Oh, wait...

JuNii, are you kidding us tonight? Do you understand that the US government does things by passing laws? Do you have any idea of how the US system works? Is this why you don't get it that critics of the government aren't complaining about the government passing laws, only about the government passing unconstitutional laws that are inconsistent with our system of law?

let me know when you start reading what I posted.

which is SOOO evident on written text. :rolleyes:
again, if that's the ONLY way you see people supporting their government... :rolleyes:

isn't it amazing how small and limited some people can be when it comes to the phrase "Support your government." that all they can think of is VIOLENCE and ANARCHY... the same things people think of when the phrase "Stand against your government" is used. Muravyets, so far you showed a true lack of imagination. or should I say the patterns of a true extremists. going from one extreme to the other with no thought.

Sad but True. I truly belive that if something is not done, soon, everybody will be dead. Really, the Republicans and Democrats squabble about birth control, while our president runs the country into the ground. A endless war, more and more enemies, and more and more death threats against U.S. citizens. Why must our kids die for strange reasons, if only to tear the social fabric of the world to shreds. Crazy men with guns, tanks, and nuclear weapons across the country, and only for their own greedy ambitions. The relegions, where people no longer worship the God, but the institution, the organization, the rules. A third world war is impending, and guys, we will be lucky if the death toll is under a billion. The problem is the huge amount of purley ignorant people. At least everyone on this blog actually cares about what is going on. Most people are concerned about what giant, gas guzzling car to buy, or who to cheat on with. The world is screwing itself, and we all will pay for it with our own blood. We must do something to stop this. Give someone a hug. Donate money. Make the world a better place. And fast.
-Everlibben out-

Everlibben. while youre right on the whole brotherhood part (the end of your post) i think youre sortof missing the point, the point is that to do something right we must undo the wrong. the patriot act in particular. the patriot act is first of all unconcstitutional, which means it should therefore be repealed, no questions asked. the govt can go breaking the basic rules origionally set down by, the govt. the constitution was the basic principles written so that we did not have a govt w/ too mcuh power, so we did not have another oppressive govt and so we did not need to resort to a violent revolution, and anarchy.
if a govt starts breaking the rules, it never stops. then you have animal farm.


Remember Revolution!

For some reason they deleted everlibben. Anyway, things are getting better now. I myself am starting to see the light of this situation, but also the dark. Have you noticed that every year more and more people are getting sick? More and more are commiting suicide? What is going on? And to connect this to the Patriot Act, if this kind of thing continues, then the American people will soon find themselves swearing loyalty to some king, and God save the rest of the world then. If we get to the point where somebody has infinite control over our army, then who know s what could happen?

These simileys demonstrate what life will be like in the future
:fluffle: :sniper:
:cool: :mp5:
:) :gundge:
Say goodbye to love
Say goodbye to being yourself
Say goodbye to happiness

I pledge allegiance to the image of George W. Bush, and to the Theocracy for which it stands, indivisible, with family and christian values for all.

Ah, finally we can have a reasoned argument about the patriot act. I hope everyone will ignore the yells of "BOOM! HEADSHOT!" From the room the Jury is deliberating in.


Look at the patriot act, provision 4.41:

"Thou shalt not question the patriot act."

so we did not have another oppressive govt and so we did not need to resort to a violent revolution, and anarchy.


lol whats wrong with anarchy?

Here here!

The government has just settled in the Brandon Mayfield case, awarding him and his family 2 million dollars. The case goes back to the Madrid bombing, where government investigators incorrectly identified a single fingerprint as Mayfield's. He was then held without charge. My fovorite part...

"[Mayfield] accepted a $2 million settlement Wednesday in his lawsuit against the federal government, setting up a legal showdown over the constitutionality of the USA Patriot Act."

Let's wish him and his legal team luck, and hope for a speedy demise to this misbegotten law that has no place in our society!

Link to article (http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1164860703106190.xml&coll=7)
Brandon Mayfield, you are a true patriot. You don't let bullshit acts that allow corrupt government officials to abuse powers, especially if they're named the "PATRIOT" act. You don't let the government take whatever steps it can to avoid doing its job the way it's supposed to. You, sir, are a true patriot. If I believed in God I'd say "May God bless your soul" but since I don't...eh, you get the point.

Brandon Mayfield, you are a true patriot. You don't let bullshit acts that allow corrupt government officials to abuse powers, especially if they're named the "PATRIOT" act. You don't let the government take whatever steps it can to avoid doing its job the way it's supposed to. You, sir, are a true patriot. If I believed in God I'd say "May God bless your soul" but since I don't...eh, you get the point.

I'll say it, then.


God Bless your Soul, Brandon Mayfield.

I'll say it, then.


God Bless your Soul, Brandon Mayfield.

Good show, mate. Also, I just realized this thread is a lot older than I thought it was, now that I'm reading through the first five pages...whoopsie...

Whites didn't fly the planes into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania.

Well, the Unabomber and Timothy McVeigh are both white. We don't see anti-white legislation now do we?