NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/5082174.stm

If this works out well, more and more UK police will be wearing the new headcams - anytime you're talking to the police on the street, you'll be recorded.

It will be recording everything - from the point they first see you, to the approach, to most of the details of your contact with them.

I wonder if this will intimidate some people - it means that if a policeman is around, even if they aren't paying attention, they are recording everything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/5082174.stm

If this works out well, more and more UK police will be wearing the new headcams - anytime you're talking to the police on the street, you'll be recorded.

It will be recording everything - from the point they first see you, to the approach, to most of the details of your contact with them.

I wonder if this will intimidate some people - it means that if a policeman is around, even if they aren't paying attention, they are recording everything.

Well, it's not quite as bad as the cameras in street lamps and unmanned drones they're planning, I suppose.

those cameras are aimed the wrong way

those cameras are aimed the wrong way

They should be sold to everyone. I could see some degree of awesome there.

That's creepy. Big Brother really is watching you, in Britain.

That's creepy. Big Brother really is watching you, in Britain.
When my sister said "I've got nothing to hide" when discussing ID cards (the next New Labour initiative) I cringed, and then nearly tore my hair out.

That's creepy. Big Brother really is watching you, in Britain.

He has been for a while. We have more security cameras watching us than anywhere else in the World.

He has been for a while. We have more security cameras watching us than anywhere else in the World.

Yeah, but for the most part, there's nothing to see.

Well, if I'm riding up an escalator on the Tube...

I think this is a mistake about suvilence and civil rights people make. Suveliance in the public sphere of life (IE Outside and in shops etc) does not breach your human rights for the simple reason that people can see you anyway. Suvilence in the private sphere (in your own home etc) is where the rights are breached if it is put into practise on a universal level. However, private suvilence can be inatiated if evidence is collected by public suvielence to warrant it.

I think this is a mistake about suvilence and civil rights people make. Suveliance in the public sphere of life (IE Outside and in shops etc) does not breach your human rights for the simple reason that people can see you anyway. Suvilence in the private sphere (in your own home etc) is where the rights are breached if it is put into practise on a universal level. However, private suvilence can be inatiated if evidence is collected by public suvielence to warrant it.Stalking somebody is a breach of their rights. If there are enough cameras, it is the equivalent of stalking someone.

Camera looks uncomfortable as hell squishing his ear like that. Aside from that it's a good idea, make the police more accountable.

cool.

should make gathering of evidence more interesting.

Maybe it will help curb corruption in law enforcement, at least on the beat level.

Stalking somebody is a breach of their rights. If there are enough cameras, it is the equivalent of stalking someone.

Assuming that the surveilance guy is only looking at you from the specific camera that is pointing at you, and that all the other people on the street and all the other screens he could be seeing he will choose to ignore.

Because thats what they do :rolleyes:

Oh boy.
Next thing you hear is cops trading their best personal "beat'em up" vids...

I find it to be ammusing how people bicker about how the government isn't doing enough to fight terrorism when where ever gets hit and then when they do something people cry civil rights. Whaaaa

Where in the constitution does it state that you have right to privacy in the public place? Anyone......

As for the Police, they are supposed to be public servants. Why not equip them with cameras? I don't see any violations in that nor do I see any violations having cameras on street corners.

All hail New Labour!

Tell me again how thatcher destroyed britian?

When my sister said "I've got nothing to hide" when discussing ID cards (the next New Labour initiative) I cringed, and then nearly tore my hair out.
The problem with ID cards is what?

So if there is a domestic abuse case and when the police arrive the woman is lying naked and beaten on the floor that is going to be recorded for all time... anyone in the police force can watch the tape of this poor woman at her most vulnerable.

Sounds like a top idea..... :rolleyes:

Assuming that the surveilance guy is only looking at you from the specific camera that is pointing at you, and that all the other people on the street and all the other screens he could be seeing he will choose to ignore.

Because thats what they do :rolleyes:There's no reason to not assume this, therefore the possibility of it is worrying.

I wonder if this will intimidate some people - it means that if a policeman is around, even if they aren't paying attention, they are recording everything.
It will also mean that, even if you're in an isolated area, any charges of brutality or plating false evidence would be more than just your word against theirs.
Its a good move, and should help reduce street-level corruption and police brutality, and anything the camera sees is within the range of vision of an agent of the government anyway, so any argument based on a perceived invasion-of-privacy is patently ridiculous.

anything the camera sees is within the range of vision of an agent of the government anyway, so any argument based on a perceived invasion-of-privacy is patently ridiculous.

Except I'm self-consciously camera-shy.

I don't mind cops, but cameras make me nervous. What if my hair looks bad? I don't want that on record!

I find it to be ammusing how people bicker about how the government isn't doing enough to fight terrorism when where ever gets hit and then when they do something people cry civil rights. Whaaaa



That's because for the most part it is different people doing the yelling it's just who has the louder voice that day of the week.

The problem with ID cards is what?

They won't achieve their stated aims.

They are a compulsory layer of bureaucracy that I can do without.

They are a single point of attack for any malcontents or corrupt governments looking to screw over a particular section of the populace.

The UK's version will be linked to a register more powerful than even the Stasi used to track and monitor people.

They reverse the idea of the state being owned by the populace.. instead the populace exist by the grace and permission of the state.

They are the equivalent of having your door key, car key and workplace permit all in one tidy little access card. You just wouldn't, would you?

...and before I get all the Europeans shouting "well I have an ID card and I see no problem with it", when exactly were your cards introduced? WW2 to try and flush out nazis, with... some small measure of non-success? WW2 by the nazis, for obvious reasons? Ah, yes.. don't you think their time has now passed? Recently in response to a ton of bullshit with regards the "war on terror"? Well, bad news bub.. terrorists WANT you to know who they are. Also, if your identity cards were voluntary and alternatives were available for proving identity, do you think you and the rest of the populace would be so keen to have them?

Exactly, out of the more than 50,000 fined (probably more than that by now) in the Netherlands for not carrying a compulsory tag, how many were terrorists? 100? 10? 1? Try none.

Exactly how were the Madrid bombings stopped by Spain's use of compulsory ID cards? Ah yes, they weren't.

Did you know that the UK's "biometric" passports are already showing cracks and leaks as far as security is concerned? Oh well.

Sorry, but I refuse to go along with the setting up and paying over £20bn for an intrusive layer of orwellian bureaucracy that will do nothing but give the government a great way of spying on "undesirables" and selling market research information to private interests. Given the behaviour of New Labour recently, I would be very scared if what they are working towards comes to pass.

...so, perhaps you could explain to me, what is right with compulsory national identity cards?

It will also mean that, even if you're in an isolated area, any charges of brutality or plating false evidence would be more than just your word against theirs.
Its a good move, and should help reduce street-level corruption and police brutality, and anything the camera sees is within the range of vision of an agent of the government anyway, so any argument based on a perceived invasion-of-privacy is patently ridiculous.
Excellent point. I was just thinking that I wish the LAPD had some of those.

Where in the constitution does it state that you have right to privacy in the public place? Anyone......

You know, the US Constitution only applies in, like, the US.

Except I'm self-consciously camera-shy.

I don't mind cops, but cameras make me nervous. What if my hair looks bad? I don't want that on record!
Another good point. The camera adds ten pounds. Time to hit the gym, I guess. Then criminals can waltz out of court rooms because, instead recording evidence, the cops were busy ogling our hot asses.

It will also mean that, even if you're in an isolated area, any charges of brutality or plating false evidence would be more than just your word against theirs.
Its a good move, and should help reduce street-level corruption and police brutality, and anything the camera sees is within the range of vision of an agent of the government anyway, so any argument based on a perceived invasion-of-privacy is patently ridiculous.

I would imagine that, depending on the police force, tapes would conveniently go missing if necessary. Taping alone isn't enough, if there's only one group allowed to look at the tapes.

I think the increasing ubiquity of cell-phone video cameras is more likely to decrease police brutaity than cops wearing them.

<snip>
...so, perhaps you could explain to me, what is right with compulsory national identity cards?
All very good and enlightening points, especially to an American. People are starting to talk about having ID cards here. You think yours will be screwed up? Wait til the Department of Homeland Security (aka The Grand Federal Circle Jerk) takes a crack at it. That should put an end to the idea once and for all.

All very good and enlightening points, especially to an American. People are starting to talk about having ID cards here. You think yours will be screwed up? Wait til the Department of Homeland Security (aka The Grand Federal Circle Jerk) takes a crack at it. That should put an end to the idea once and for all.
What's been holding it back in the US thus far is the fact that the states jealously hold onto every ounce of power they can, and they get to administrate their own ID cards in the form of Driver's Licenses and State ID cards. That'll be a hell of a tug of war, if and when it comes to fruition.

What's been holding it back in the US thus far is the fact that the states jealously hold onto every ounce of power they can, and they get to administrate their own ID cards in the form of Driver's Licenses and State ID cards. That'll be a hell of a tug of war, if and when it comes to fruition.
Good! Let's think of ways to keep that argument going. All hail the Wondrous Gridlock, Bulwark of Liberty!

Whilst I`d have a little trouble deciding where to look when confronted by a policeman, I can`t really see them being too much of a problem. Just, as mentioned, the ever-increasing number of camera-equipped mobile phones might help keep police in their place, maybe these will help keep the civilians whose `rights` somehow include stealing 80 pounds-sterling worth of bacon from supermarkets with puffer-jackets in line as well.*

We can all run with privacy invasion theories all we want, though sometimes these sorts of measures are actually aimed at those who commit the crimes. I hope this policy works out effectively, just as I hope there are very few on either end of the lenses that abuse it.

*True story, by the way. The shop lifter that I and a local bobby caught claimed that we had `planted` all of that bacon on him. Took a court hearing (albeit short and comical) to sort that out. All would have been nicely wrapped up with a tape of the `lifter running through the carpark with Danepak doublepacks falling out of his jacket... :p

Good! Let's think of ways to keep that argument going. All hail the Wondrous Gridlock, Bulwark of Liberty!
Here's how effective the tactic can be--it was used as a scare tactic back in 1993 when Clinton was trying to get the Universal Health Care initiative passed. They attacked it in a lot of ways, but the Big Brother card was one of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/5082174.stm

If this works out well, more and more UK police will be wearing the new headcams - anytime you're talking to the police on the street, you'll be recorded.

It will be recording everything - from the point they first see you, to the approach, to most of the details of your contact with them.

I wonder if this will intimidate some people - it means that if a policeman is around, even if they aren't paying attention, they are recording everything.

We're slinging about some amazing crap here in the states...

...but somehow I'm starting to think you Brits have it worse. :(

Once again, I say Thank God I am not living in the UK. I would not be able to put up with all the camera's, ID cards etc.