NationStates Jolt Archive

the War of 1812 although named after one year was actually fought for 3 yrs. A lot of people don't realize that this war is what actually set up the America we have today. Some have forgotten about this war.

Washington D.C. was burned, the Capitol Building, the White House were lost. We foolishly tried to conquer Canada in an attempt to annex it. We had made many mistakes throughout the war. Although a Peace Treaty was signed it took it between 4 and 6 weeks to get the messege past to the armies in America, I feel that it was General Andrew Jackson in New Orleans who won the final battle that gave Victory to America. The British had recorded more than 2000 soldiers either, died, were wounded, or taken prisoner. While Gen. Jackson's Army recorded 13 deaths and dozens wounded.

Oh, the British were also fighting the French overseas, too which is why the mass of their troops couldn't make it until the finally won which was in 1814.

This is the war that at the end gave us the "Star Spangled Banner" and also due to the fear of having to pledge our allegience to the Royal Crown, we came up with the "Pledge of Allegience".

What are your thoughts of the War of 1812? Was it a significant war? Did this war make America what it is today? Your thoughts.....

the War of 1812 although named after one year was actually fought for 3 yrs. A lot of people don't realize that this war is what actually set up the America we have today. Some have forgotten about this war.

Washington D.C. was burned, the Capitol Building, the White House were lost. We foolishly tried to conquer Canada in an attempt to annex it. We had made many mistakes throughout the war. Although a Peace Treaty was signed it took it between 4 and 6 weeks to get the messege past to the armies in America, I feel that it was General Andrew Jackson in New Orleans who won the final battle that gave Victory to America. The British had recorded more than 2000 soldiers either, died, were wounded, or taken prisoner. While Gen. Jackson's Army recorded 13 deaths and dozens wounded.

Oh, the British were also fighting the French overseas, too which is why the mass of their troops couldn't make it until the finally won which was in 1814.

This is the war that at the end gave us the "Star Spangled Banner" and also due to the fear of having to pledge our allegience to the Royal Crown, we came up with the "Pledge of Allegience".

What are your thoughts of the War of 1812? Was it a significant war? Did this war make America what it is today? Your thoughts.....

There's a distinct differenece between Victory and Draw.

Pre-war, "Canada or Bust!"

Post-war, "Not a single yard of land lost!"

Hmm, seems like the priorities changed when we started getting our asses kicked. Napoleon was deposed halfway through the war and it doubled the British troop capacity. We we banking on their distraction.

Pointless war, we got our butts kicked and that victory of General Jacksons was the one that came after the peace treaty was signed so it is not as if it had a part in the outcome. America got greedy and we got our hand smacked by the Brits. Really didn't have any long term effects though.

One of the few wars where there really was no victor though, better then saying the U.S. lost.

What are your thoughts of the War of 1812?It was one of the dumbest military engagements the US has been in to this day, and the fact that the treaty addressed none of the points that caused the war underlines that. It's also silly that British and Americans believe that they won the war. No one won anything.

its hard to find a Brit who actually knows about this war (in fact I didn’t know until about 2 months ago!) I think that sums up how important this war was

a pointless war in which the US nearly became Bankrupt

It was one of the dumbest military engagements the US has been in to this day, and the fact that the treaty addressed none of the points that caused the war underlines that. It's also silly that British and Americans believe that they won the war. No one won anything.

Some of America's most influential Historians would Definately disagree with you, referring it to be "one of the dumbest military engagements". They would tell you that that war was the "Making of America" that it made America what it is today.

The main reason for the war was due to the fact Britain was impressing thousands of our sailors, forcing them to fight against the French. They were also blockading most of the European Coast from any trade what so ever, which in itself was a violation of the neutral trading.

We should have never put any focus on Canada at all, I do agree.

Some of America's most influential Historians would Definately disagree with you, referring it to be "one of the dumbest military engagements". They would tell you that that war was the "Making of America" that it made America what it is today.

The main reason for the war was due to the fact Britain was impressing thousands of our sailors, forcing them to fight against the French. They were also blockading most of the European Coast from any trade what so ever, which in itself was a violation of the neutral trading.More because of the blockade to thwart Napoleon's Continental System hurting US shipping. And, pray tell, where was that addressed in the treaty?

its hard to find a Brit who actually knows about this war (in fact I didn’t know until about 2 months ago!) I think that sums up how important this war was

At that time the British was the World's strongest force to reckon with. Of course they wouldn't pay to much about it.

As for America, we were only a 30 year old nation and it was our first invasion we had as a Nation.

At that time the British was the World's strongest force to reckon with. Of course they wouldn't pay to much about it.

As for America, we were only a 30 year old nation and it was our first invasion we had as a Nation.

We invaded Canada during the Revolution too. Benedict Arnold went through snow in Maine while Washington sat around Boston.

At that time the British was the World's strongest force to reckon with. Of course they wouldn't pay to much about it.

As for America, we were only a 30 year old nation and it was our first invasion we had as a Nation.

Not counting Attu & Kiska in WW2 and maybe Pancho Villa in 1917, that was our last invasion, too.

But really, what's your point? If the brits hadn't been distracted by beating Napoleon in Spain, they'd have sent Wellington over here with a few thousand veterans and a lot more would have been burned than just DC.

The War of 1812 was the first round of Canadian pwnage on America.
;)

We invaded Canada during the Revolution too. Benedict Arnold went through snow in Maine while Washington sat around Boston.

The point is......

During the Revolutionary War we were not an Independent Nation that came after the war. The War of 1812 is America's first invasion as an Independent Nation. Not debateable. It's fact.

Not counting Attu & Kiska in WW2 and maybe Pancho Villa in 1917, that was our last invasion, too.

But really, what's your point? If the brits hadn't been distracted by beating Napoleon in Spain, they'd have sent Wellington over here with a few thousand veterans and a lot more would have been burned than just DC.

I think his point is that the war of 1812 had a profound effect of some sort on the US development as a nation.

The point is......

During the Revolutionary War we were not an Independent Nation that came after the war. The War of 1812 is America's first invasion as an Independent Nation. Not debateable. It's fact.

Okay, yes, I would agree to that, it was the first. Good, we can close this thread now, right?

Not counting Attu & Kiska in WW2 and maybe Pancho Villa in 1917, that was our last invasion, too.

But really, what's your point? If the brits hadn't been distracted by beating Napoleon in Spain, they'd have sent Wellington over here with a few thousand veterans and a lot more would have been burned than just DC.

I don't think you actually know to much about this war. A lot more besides Washington was burned, Maine was burned pretty bad along with other places. Washington, though, was very embarrassing. They even thought about moving the capital back to Philadelphia but they decided best to leave it in Washington.

Okay, yes, I would agree to that, it was the first. Good, we can close this thread now, right?

If you don't like the thread or discussion, you are free to leave and not post at any time.

As for me, I think that there can be much more discussion.

I think his point is that the war of 1812 had a profound effect of some sort on the US development as a nation.

Well, let's see ... There's that song about the Battle of New Orleans ...

Well, in eighteen and fourteen we took a little trip
along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip.
We took a little bacon and we took a little beans,
And we caught the bloody British near the town of New Orleans.

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Well, I see'd Mars Jackson walkin down the street
talkin' to a pirate by the name of Jean Lafayette [pronounced La-feet]
He gave Jean a drink that he brung from Tennessee
and the pirate said he'd help us drive the British in the sea.

The French said Andrew, you'd better run,
for Packingham's a comin' with a bullet in his gun.
Old Hickory said he didn't give a dang,
he's gonna whip the britches off of Colonel Packingham.

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Well, we looked down the river and we see'd the British come,
and there must have been a hundred of 'em beatin' on the drum.
They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring
while we stood by our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise
if we didn't fire a musket til we looked 'em in the eyes.
We held our fire til we see'd their faces well,
then we opened up with squirrel guns and really gave a yell.

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Well, we fired our cannon til the barrel melted down,
so we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind,
and when they tetched the powder off, the gator lost his mind.

We'll march back home but we'll never be content
till we make Old Hickory the people's President.
And every time we think about the bacon and the beans,
we'll think about the fun we had way down in New Orleans.

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin,
But there wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Well, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast the hounds couldn't catch 'em
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.
But there wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin'
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

Charleton Heston got to play Andrew jackson in the movie about that, with Yul Brynner playing Lafitte. Uhm ... Dolly Madison got famous for saving the portrait of Washington from the White House and then turned into a brand of ice cream ... Uhm ... what else?

Well, let's see ... There's that song about the Battle of New Orleans ...



Charleton Heston got to play Andrew jackson in the movie about that, with Yul Brynner playing Lafitte. Uhm ... Dolly Madison got famous for saving the portrait of Washington from the White House and then turned into a brand of ice cream ... Uhm ... what else?
Other than teh national anthem it beats me, I've never really found American history that interesting.

I think his point is that the war of 1812 had a profound effect of some sort on the US development as a nation.

Absolutely

I was inspired to make a topic of the War of 1812 from watching a 2 hour program on the History channel today called, "War of 1812 The First Invasion"

For those critics on NSG, if you don't like American History or think that the war in this topic was just another stupid war, then why post here. Why not go to another topic that meets your high standards of validity? You act as if you're forced to post when you are not.

I along with many accredited Historians think that that war did in fact was the Making of America, was the war that made America what we are today. Both the Star, Spangled Banner and the Pledge of allegience were created directly after this war. Also, when this war first began, many Americans were starting to doubt if we could remain as an Independent Nation. By the time this war was over, we had no doubts whatsoever.

I don't think you actually know to much about this war. A lot more besides Washington was burned, Maine was burned pretty bad along with other places. Washington, though, was very embarrassing. They even thought about moving the capital back to Philadelphia but they decided best to leave it in Washington.

Not that much, I suppose. I did read a book on it a few years ago.

I suppose the war did give the US a decent shot of confidence. We did go toe to toe with the Royal Navy several times and we did come out ahead in single ship fights. The invasion of Canada didn't go as planned, and it cost us Zebulon Pike, the explorer, who was killed during an attack, but I'm not absolutely sure taking Canada would have been in our best interests. We were still digesting the Old Northwest and the Louisiana Purchase, adding the rest of the Frozen North might have given us an upset stomach.

The war did make Winfield Scott's reputation in the Army, and it probably put Jackson in the White House as much as anything. It probably also allowed President Monroe to promulgate the Monroe Doctrine, seing as how we'd fought the British to a draw in the war, especially at sea.

And sorry I annoyed you by making fun before. If you know me at all from NSG, you'll know I tend to do that. You'll also know I do know a tad about American history. ;)

I was inspired to make a topic of the War of 1812 from watching a 2 hour program on the History channel today called, "War of 1812 The First Invasion"

For those critics on NSG, if you don't like American History or think that the war in this topic was just another stupid war, then why post here. Why not go to another topic that meets your high standards of validity? You act as if you're forced to post when you are not.

I along with many accredited Historians think that that war did in fact was the Making of America, was the war that made America what we are today. Both the Star, Spangled Banner and the Pledge of allegience were created directly after this war. Also, when this war first began, many Americans were starting to doubt if we could remain as an Independent Nation. By the time this war was over, we had no doubts whatsoever.

So list said historians...

The Americans decided they'd invade Canada because it was the best place for the British to launch a land invasion of the US should they ever want to. They saw it as taking a pre-emptive strike. Fortionatly for us Canadians we won all but 3 (if I recall correctly) skirmishes. It should also be said that the majority of the soldiers involved in the fighting on the Canadian/British side were Canadian militia.

As for historical significance, the war of 1812 was the first war the United States as a nation had a political party formed expressly for the purpose of opposing the war, and was one of the first wars the United States undertook against popular opinion.

how exactly did america win this war if they didn't acheive their stated war aims?

The main reason for the war was due to the fact Britain was impressing thousands of our sailors, forcing them to fight against the French. They were also blockading most of the European Coast from any trade what so ever, which in itself was a violation of the neutral trading.
Impressing American forces ended over a year (if I recall correctly) before the 1812 war began. It was a convenient excuse; trying to get the British to stop doing something they had already stopped doing.

Impressing American forces ended over a year (if I recall correctly) before the 1812 war began. It was a convenient excuse; trying to get the British to stop doing something they had already stopped doing.

No you are wrong, I will copy & paste from Wikipedia........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_War_of_1812 (scroll down to the "Violation of American Soveriegnty" The reason for the impressment was because of Britain being shorthanded on seamen to be effective in the war with France.

between 1806 and 1812 about 6,000 seamen claimed as American citizens were impressed and taken against their will into the Royal Navy.2 Great Britain did not want to stop impressment because it was seen as an effective way of combating desertion from the Royal Navy. The Monroe-Pinkney Treaty (1806) between the U.S. and Great Britain was not ratified in the United States because it did not end impressment.

The point is......

During the Revolutionary War we were not an Independent Nation that came after the war. The War of 1812 is America's first invasion as an Independent Nation. Not debateable. It's fact.

Wrong. Our first invasion as an independent nation was the invasion of the nation of Tripoli during the First Barbary War 1801-1805.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Much of the war was fought at sea, but we did invade and fight on land as well. This war is where "..to the shores of Tripoli..." part of the Marine Hymn originated.

Pick up a history book kid. :p

Wrong. Our first invasion as an independent nation was the invasion of the nation of Tripoli during the First Barbary War 1801-1805.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Much of the war was fought at sea, but we did invade and fight on land as well. This war is where "..to the shores of Tripoli..." part of the Marine Hymn originated.

Pick up a history book kid. :p

I highly suggest you repick up that history book you claim to know so well and find out he was talking about how the War of 1812 was the FIRST INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES nation. Please pay attention.

Pointless war, we got our butts kicked and that victory of General Jacksons was the one that came after the peace treaty was signed so it is not as if it had a part in the outcome. America got greedy and we got our hand smacked by the Brits. Really didn't have any long term effects though.

One of the few wars where there really was no victor though, better then saying the U.S. lost.

If you had any knowledge of history, you would know it was far from pointless.

I doubt you are aware of the impressment of US sailors by the Royal Navy.

how exactly did america win this war if they didn't acheive their stated war aims?This or that war?

A pointless war in which the limits of communications, and deceptive manuevers by Napoleon managed to get the United States into stupid little conflict with Britain.

Pointless war, we got our butts kicked and that victory of General Jacksons was the one that came after the peace treaty was signed so it is not as if it had a part in the outcome. America got greedy and we got our hand smacked by the Brits. Really didn't have any long term effects though.

One of the few wars where there really was no victor though, better then saying the U.S. lost.

Well....considering the lines of communication at the time, the fact the treaty was signed didn't mean anything as both sides thought the war was on.

It was one of the dumbest military engagements the US has been in to this day, and the fact that the treaty addressed none of the points that caused the war underlines that. It's also silly that British and Americans believe that they won the war. No one won anything.

No not true.

England got a promise that Canada would never be touched and England promised to stop taking US sailors for the Royal Navy....

I highly suggest you repick up that history book you claim to know so well and find out he was talking about how the War of 1812 was the FIRST INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES nation. Please pay attention.

Um...you might need to pay better attention yourself.

We foolishly tried to conquer Canada in an attempt to annex it.

We invaded Canada during the Revolution too. Benedict Arnold went through snow in Maine while Washington sat around Boston.

Fleckenstein: "We invaded Canada during the Revolution too. Benedict Arnold went through snow in Maine while Washington sat around Boston."

The point is......

During the Revolutionary War we were not an Independent Nation that came after the war. The War of 1812 is America's first invasion as an Independent Nation. Not debateable. It's fact.

The Americans decided they'd invade Canada because it was the best place for the British to launch a land invasion of the US should they ever want to. They saw it as taking a pre-emptive strike.

As he left it ambiguous as whether he meant the US invading another nation or the US being invaded, either could be inferred from the discussion in this thread as both were discussed.

Not counting Attu & Kiska in WW2 and maybe Pancho Villa in 1917, that was our last invasion, too.

But really, what's your point? If the brits hadn't been distracted by beating Napoleon in Spain, they'd have sent Wellington over here with a few thousand veterans and a lot more would have been burned than just DC.

Actually I thought I read somewhere where he said he wouldn't have done it.

Actually I thought I read somewhere where he said he wouldn't have done it.

If it hadn't been for Napoleon, I doubt that Wellington would have had much of a reputation outside of India anyway.

I remember reading kind of the same thing about him however. But it was more to the effect that he viewed - as many did given the times - that being sent to North America was effectively a disgrace for a serving officer given that it was such a 'minor' theater.

I'd say we certainly would not have fought the war were it not for Napoleon. After all, were it not for that war, Britain would not have needed to conscript Americans into the Royal Navy and violate American sovereignty, and there would have been no cause for war.

If you had any knowledge of history, you would know it was far from pointless.

I doubt you are aware of the impressment of US sailors by the Royal Navy.

I suppose you could say that any war will have some aftereffects but I have no problem saying that the war of 1812 can be a forgetable war as nothing really changed for either the U.S. or Britain in their relations with each other. The status quo was maintained. And the impressment of US sailors was an added dimention to the cause of the war, I still don't see how that effects the postwar climate.

But then again maybe there is something I am missing, you never know.

Pointless war, we got our butts kicked and that victory of General Jacksons was the one that came after the peace treaty was signed so it is not as if it had a part in the outcome. America got greedy and we got our hand smacked by the Brits. Really didn't have any long term effects though.

And the Brits did not get their butt kicked? They lost several battles both on land and sea same as the United States did.

One of the few wars where there really was no victor though, better then saying the U.S. lost.

The war was a draw though the nationalists on both sides will say something different.

Impressing American forces ended over a year (if I recall correctly) before the 1812 war began. It was a convenient excuse; trying to get the British to stop doing something they had already stopped doing.

Wrong my friend. It ended AFTER 1812. The French stopped theirs after our little ultimatum and the Brits took to long to respond.

Wrong. Our first invasion as an independent nation was the invasion of the nation of Tripoli during the First Barbary War 1801-1805.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Much of the war was fought at sea, but we did invade and fight on land as well. This war is where "..to the shores of Tripoli..." part of the Marine Hymn originated.

Pick up a history book kid. :p

"To the shores of Tripoli." Marine Corp hymn. :D

Hmmm... It may have shaped America's Northern Border, but it did not make America.

For the making of America, see the mass immigration that would occur up until the 30s. THATS what made America, not a tiny war between two Large North American Protestant Nations...

No not true.

England got a promise that Canada would never be touched and England promised to stop taking US sailors for the Royal Navy....

Agreed.

I think I read that we thought the Canadians would welcome us as liberators. Luckily, we would never make such a mistake now.