NationStates Jolt Archive

Article about letter (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15947213/)
Text of letter (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15952309/)

Personally, I wish he had given a return address, so Americans could write back. What he wrote was interesting. I vehemently disagree with most of it, but it is refreshing to hear what he is thinking.

Yeah-we can all love him now. He really is well-intended and peaceful.:rolleyes:

Yeah-we can all love him now. He really is well-intended and peaceful.:rolleyes:

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy about Hitler now, doesn't it?

Interesting letter. And, for the most part, he's got a point with a lot of it.

Interesting letter. And, for the most part, he's got a point with a lot of it.

Yes. And he means it. :p

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy about Hitler now, doesn't it?

Nah. I just read a good book called "The Bunker". Its still hard to comprehend how much Hitler was able to accomplish.

He had way too many accomplices.

My favorite part is where he said that Iran has a "respect for the rights of human beings." It's a good thing that I love comedy.

Nah. I just read a good book called "The Bunker". Its still hard to comprehend how much Hitler was able to accomplish.

He had way too many accomplices.


So does Ahmadinejad.

Yes. And he means it. :p

Are you insinuating that a politician would lie? :eek:

How dare you!

Either this man's a total idiot or he's trying to stoke the flames under the deckmantle of ignorance.

My favorite part is where he said that Iran has a "respect for the rights of human beings." It's a good thing that I love comedy.

Well, after all, when the Iranians sent their children into the minefields to clear them by stomping on the land mines, they changed their policy to allow the children to wrap themselves in blankets so their body parts wouldn't be so widely scattered in the blast (giving their relatives something to find and bury).

How much more respect for human rights do you want?

Interesting letter. And, for the most part, he's got a point with a lot of it.Don't you think it would be so much more meaningful if it didn't come from a country with a regime that's worse than the Bush administration?

Fear the Iranians for they have fully mastered the world postal system!

And seems like a nice guy though if bush is clever he could save allot of time by sending the letter back with the names reversed:p

Well, after all, when the Iranians sent their children into the minefields to clear them by stomping on the land mines, they changed their policy to allow the children to wrap themselves in blankets so their body parts wouldn't be so widely scattered in the blast (giving their relatives something to find and bury).

How much more respect for human rights do you want?

Silly me. I should have seen that heart-warming example of human rights protection. I'm sure that the horrified onlookers felt very privilaged to not get hit by flying body parts.

Doesn't that faint hint of "3BIl j00Z" in his letter remind you of the gentle remonstrations of Goebbels?

Don't you think it would be so much more meaningful if it didn't come from a country with a regime that's worse than the Bush administration?

Got to cut the man some slack though he does run a country in the middles east and thus comparing to some of his surrounding nations (Turkmenistan) he's a saint:D

Got to cut the man some slack though he does run a country in the middles east and thus comparing to some of his surrounding nations (Turkmenistan) he's a saint:DHuh? He runs the country? Isn't that what the revolutionary council does?

Got to cut the man some slack though he does run a country in the middles east and thus comparing to some of his surrounding nations (Turkmenistan) he's a saint:D

Now, now. Uganda was not in the Middle East, and Idi Amin is no longer in power.

Don't you think it would be so much more meaningful if it didn't come from a country with a regime that's worse than the Bush administration?

Probably.

Well, after all, when the Iranians sent their children into the minefields to clear them by stomping on the land mines, they changed their policy to allow the children to wrap themselves in blankets so their body parts wouldn't be so widely scattered in the blast (giving their relatives something to find and bury).

How much more respect for human rights do you want?
And who do you think was the leader of the opposition, being funded by the US, so that Iran had to stoop to such lows?

Oh yeah - now I remember. Saddam.

And who do you think was the leader of the opposition, being funded by the US, so that Iran had to stoop to such lows?

Oh yeah - now I remember. Saddam.

Really? Iran had to stoop to attacking and invading Iraq? Taking the area around Basra?

Really? Saddam "forced" them to invade Iraq?

Really? Iran had to stoop to attacking and invading Iraq? Taking the area around Basra?

Really? Saddam "forced" them to invade Iraq?
The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes.

Huh? He runs the country? Isn't that what the revolutionary council does?

as you can see he is just misunderstood why he takes the time to write a letter in good English and send it a few thousand miles does he get a reply no not even an email!

Really? Iran had to stoop to attacking and invading Iraq? Taking the area around Basra?

Well yes being at war does that never mind the chemical weapons (which is beside the point because it isn’t the same Iranian president is it)

And who do you think was the leader of the opposition, being funded by the US, so that Iran had to stoop to such lows?

Oh yeah - now I remember. Saddam.

So the only way to clear a mine field is to march children across it? Makes sense. The recently microwaved baby was probably just an attempt by the parents to make sure the microwave worked.

So the only way to clear a mine field is to march children across it? Makes sense. The recently microwaved baby was probably just an attempt by the parents to make sure the microwave worked.

No no, you're completely wrong: she MEANT to hit the Re-heat, because the baby was cold, but hit the Cook button by mistake.

So the only way to clear a mine field is to march children across it?
When you don't have any money for mine-clearing equipment, and know that the enemy won't shoot your kids, then quite possibly, yes.

When you don't have any money for mine-clearing equipment, and know that the enemy won't shoot your kids, then quite possibly, yes.

damnit....President Bush deprived them of mine field clearing equipment. :rolleyes:

damnit....President Bush deprived them of mine field clearing equipment. :rolleyes:

See? It's obviously America's fault that Iran murdered children. It should be obvious.

damnit....President Bush deprived them of mine field clearing equipment. :rolleyes:
It was more issues with the man on the left of this picture, as far as the US goes in this, really.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg

When you don't have any money for mine-clearing equipment, and know that the enemy won't shoot your kids, then quite possibly, yes.

There are plenty of ways to clear mines. They may not be quick or easy, but the risks involved are much less than marching kids across the field. Hell, explosives or armored vehicles pushing a big hunk of metal in front of them will do the job. You mean to tell me Iran didn't have one tank and one guy who can weld a big metal plow on the front of it? Were they short of explosives too?

There are plenty of ways to clear mines. They may not be quick or easy, but the risks involved are much less than marching kids across the field. Hell, explosives or armored vehicles pushing a big hunk of metal in front of them will do the job. You mean to tell me Iran didn't have one tank and one guy who can weld a big metal plow on the front of it? Were they short of explosives too?Indeed. Didn't Morocco offer the use of 500 specially trained monkeys to the US for the war in Iraq?

There are plenty of ways to clear mines. They may not be quick or easy, but the risks involved are much less than marching kids across the field. Hell, explosives or armored vehicles pushing a big hunk of metal in front of them will do the job. You mean to tell me Iran didn't have one tank and one guy who can weld a big metal plow on the front of it? Were they short of explosives too?
To be honest, I have no idea. But what I do know was that Iran was short on manpower, and big on kidpower, and used children to clear mines when needed.

There are plenty of ways to clear mines. They may not be quick or easy, but the risks involved are much less than marching kids across the field. Hell, explosives or armored vehicles pushing a big hunk of metal in front of them will do the job. You mean to tell me Iran didn't have one tank and one guy who can weld a big metal plow on the front of it? Were they short of explosives too?

Dragging a wreck across is the cheapest and most common way.

But dont waste too much trying to assert logic on this one.


And since mines usually are designed to maim and cripple, I wonder how the Iranians cared for the little heroes that werent killed-that just lost a limb or two?

And since mines usually are designed to maim and cripple, I wonder how the Iranians cared for the little heroes that werent killed-that just lost a limb or two?
By putting them in whatever hospitals remained after the Iraqi air strikes?

To be honest, I have no idea. But what I do know was that Iran was short on manpower, and big on kidpower, and used children to clear mines when needed.

Ok, so that makes it acceptable to sacrifice a bunch of children. It would have used up too much manpower to convert a couple of tanks into mine plows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_plow

Dragging a wreck across is the cheapest and most common way.

But dont waste too much trying to assert logic on this one.


And since mines usually are designed to maim and cripple, I wonder how the Iranians cared for the little heroes that werent killed-that just lost a limb or two?

I'm sure they got a nice tin medal and a note saying that they have a free pass to paradise when they die.

To be honest, I have no idea. But what I do know was that Iran was short on manpower, and big on kidpower, and used children to clear mines when needed.

No-what they were short on were people ignorant enough to put on a little plastic key necklace on and march across a minefield.

You're not really that stupid and that dense and maligned that you're actually digging desperately for some rational excuse use children this way,right?

No one, no matter how defective, could be that terribly stupid.

Actually, does anyone have a reliable link to the mine clearing by children story? All I've found so far that support that are Republican blogs.

By putting them in whatever hospitals remained after the Iraqi air strikes?

yep.

keep grasping.

yep.

keep grasping.
Oh - do you have any numbers at all for the casualties to children caused in this manner?

Because some actual, verifiable, statistics would really help both sides here.

Actually, does anyone have a reliable link to the mine clearing by children story? All I've found so far that support that are Republican blogs.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406

Sure, it's Republican. But he's citing the Iranian paper, Der Speigel, and Allgemeiner Frankfurter.

It's not like he's pulling the story out of his ass.

Actually, does anyone have a reliable link to the mine clearing by children story? All I've found so far that support that are Republican blogs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4265058.stm

They don't specifically say "children" but volunteers though.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406

Sure, it's Republican. But he's citing the Iranian paper, Der Speigel, and Allgemeiner Frankfurter.

It's not like he's pulling the story out of his ass.
Doesn't have any numbers...

Doesn't have any numbers...

Obviously you didn't read the article. The number is over 100,000.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4265058.stm

They don't specifically say "children" but volunteers though.
As you said - not children, but other volunteers as well.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406

Sure, it's Republican. But he's citing the Iranian paper, Der Speigel, and Allgemeiner Frankfurter.

It's not like he's pulling the story out of his ass.It requires a subscription. (And that would be Frankfurter Allgemeine ;) ).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4265058.stm

They don't specifically say "children" but volunteers though.I've heard about the volunteers. That doesn't mean that they're children, though. Young perhaps, but not children.

Obviously you didn't read the article. The number is over 100,000.
Only subscribers can read it, so I'll take you word for it, but did it say "volunteers" or "children", and did it list all child casualties, or just mine-clearing ones?

Actually, does anyone have a reliable link to the mine clearing by children story? All I've found so far that support that are Republican blogs.

Amir Vahedi is one of the likeliest Iranians to bring this number to three. Born in Tehran in 1961, Vahedi enlisted in the army during the war with Iraq (1980-88). After he'd served for two years in that hideous bloodbath—poison gas was deployed and martyr brigades of children, called the Basij, marched across minefields—Vahedi's mother begged him to desert his unit and leave the country. Despite his determination to serve with honor, he decided to obey his mother's desperate plea.

Does the LA times work for you?

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-poker45nov05,0,6658693,full.story?coll=la-home-magazine

Does the LA times work for you?Yeah. Does it come with a link? :D

Yeah. Does it come with a link? :D
Just added.

It requires a subscription. (And that would be Frankfurter Allgemeine ;) ).

I've heard about the volunteers. That doesn't mean that they're children, though. Young perhaps, but not children.

12 is still a child no matter what shit hole you're in. And thats the # mentioned in nearly every result in the search.

Now we'll have speculation tha tthere was only one 12 yr old there, the rest of the thousands were all expendable adults no one liked anyway.


We are still talking about humans being deliberately used to clear a fucking mine field. Tell me again how they would "volunteer" for this?
Maybe-their family gets a small stipend if they do-and maybe the family gets arrested and tortured if they dont.
Its not like thats an uncommon way to motivate people there.

Its almost like it will be rational at some point.

12 is still a child no matter what shit hole you're in. And thats the # mentioned in nearly every result in the search.

Now we'll have speculation tha tthere was only one 12 yr old there, the rest of the thousands were all expendable adults no one liked anyway.


We are still talking about humans being deliberately used to clear a fucking mine field. Tell me again how they would "volunteer" for this?
Maybe-their family gets a small stipend if they do-and maybe the family gets arrested and tortured if they dont.
Its not like thats an uncommon way to motivate people there.

Its almost like it will be rational at some point.

Yootopia says that Saddam forced them to use their children.
I'm still waiting for the explanation of how the Iraqi President "forced" the Iranian government to round up children and give them plastic keys and promise them paradise in exchange for marching them across minefields.

Tell us, Yootopia. How did he "force" them?

Does the LA times work for you?

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-poker45nov05,0,6658693,full.story?coll=la-home-magazine

Wait a minute-This isnt a credible source,I still have doubts,its not specific enough, it doesnt have casualty rates,and not many died,no conclusive proof and pictures of each, just lost eyes,legs and balls, children become adults at 5 in that culture,m the US forced them to do it ....blah,blah,blah....

:rolleyes:

12 is still a child no matter what shit hole you're in. And thats the # mentioned in nearly every result in the search.

Now we'll have speculation tha tthere was only one 12 yr old there, the rest of the thousands were all expendable adults no one liked anyway.


We are still talking about humans being deliberately used to clear a fucking mine field. Tell me again how they would "volunteer" for this?
Maybe-their family gets a small stipend if they do-and maybe the family gets arrested and tortured if they dont.
Its not like thats an uncommon way to motivate people there.

Its almost like it will be rational at some point.

Even if the average age was 40 or 140 it's still barbaric. Sending people to march across a mine field in order to clear it should be considered a crime against humanity.

Wait a minute-This isnt a credible source,I still have doubts,its not specific enough, it doesnt have casualty rates,and not many died,no conclusive proof and pictures of each, just lost eyes,legs and balls, children become adults at 5 in that culture,m the US forced them to do it ....blah,blah,blah....

:rolleyes:

You could shorten that to, "Iran never does anything wrong or barbaric -- only the US, or someone the US sponsors, and they force other people to do barbaric things."

12 is still a child no matter what shit hole you're in. And thats the # mentioned in nearly every result in the search.

Now we'll have speculation tha tthere was only one 12 yr old there, the rest of the thousands were all expendable adults no one liked anyway.That's the thing, the only sources I found on my own were right-wing blogs. Until DCD found the LA times link, that was all I had to go on, and the idea that this could have been an urban myth propagated by those that gain from it wasn't all that unreasonable.


We are still talking about humans being deliberately used to clear a fucking mine field. Tell me again how they would "volunteer" for this?It is disgusting to treat human life that way, but to answer your question with a counter-question, who volunteers for a suicid bombing?

Yootopia says that Saddam forced them to use their children.
I'm still waiting for the explanation of how the Iraqi President "forced" the Iranian government to round up children and give them plastic keys and promise them paradise in exchange for marching them across minefields.

Tell us, Yootopia. How did he "force" them?

Donald Rumsfeld forced Sadaam to force the Iranains to do that- you SAW the picture of them shalking hands on it !!

:p

That's the thing, the only sources I found on my own were right-wing blogs. Until DCD found the LA times link, that was all I had to go on, and the idea that this could have been an urban myth propagated by those that gain from it wasn't all that unreasonable.


It is disgusting to treat human life that way, but to answer your question with a counter-question, who volunteers for a suicid bombing?

People that are brainwashed, drugged, of limited mental capacity, blackmailed or threatened with loss while being promised rewards here and in the hereafter.
Often combinations of some or all of these.

People that are brainwashed, drugged, of limited mental capacity, blackmailed or threatened with loss while being promised rewards here and in the hereafter.
Often combinations of some or all of these.

The parents are threatened. The children are too unknowing to say no.

If I could ask him one question, it would be this:

If you truly are sincere and caring about the Iraqi People, why do you not attempt to put a stop or atleast reduce the numbers of the insurgencies coming from your Nation?

Even if the average age was 40 or 140 it's still barbaric. Sending people to march across a mine field in order to clear it should be considered a crime against humanity.

absolutely. There is no justification. Unless you're dealing with some bitter pip-squeak with a terrible,yet pathetic bias.

If I could ask him one question, it would be this:

If you truly are sincere and caring about the Iraqi People, why do you not attempt to put a stop or atleast reduce the numbers of the insurgencies coming from your Nation?

You forget the following, which applies to just about every country or political organization.

"If we do it, it's not terrorism."

"If we do it, it's not a violation of human rights."

"If we do it, it's not insurgency."

"If we do it, it's not torture."

"If we do it, it's perfectly legal and good."

"If we do it, and someone criticizes us, those people are teh ebil j00Z!"

If I could ask him one question, it would be this:

If you truly are sincere and caring about the Iraqi People, why do you not attempt to put a stop or atleast reduce the numbers of the insurgencies coming from your Nation?

Because he really supports their actions. And we should all swoon over his eloquent love-letter to us.

You write a letter like this when you want to fuck someone.

I vehemently disagree with most of it, but it is refreshing to hear what he is thinking.

And what he is spouting is pure http://www.f8andbethere.com/images/smiles/BSloop.gif

He sounds a lot like Toykeo Rose. :p

And what he is spouting is pure http://www.f8andbethere.com/images/smiles/BSloop.gif

He sounds a lot like Toykeo Rose. :p

About midway through, he refers to the hundreds of thousands or Iranians living in the US.
It almost feels like a subtle threat.

About midway through, he refers to the hundreds of thousands or Iranians living in the US.
It almost feels like a subtle threat.Considering that he thought Germany was still the 3rd Reich, this speaks in favor of Iranians living in the US. Why do you think they left Iran?

Considering that he thought Germany was still the 3rd Reich, this speaks in favor of Iranians living in the US. Why do you think they left Iran?

They left as part of a Fifth Column Muslim Terrorist Assault/Infiltration Force, obviously!

Considering that he thought Germany was still the 3rd Reich, this speaks in favor of Iranians living in the US. Why do you think they left Iran?

I personally think a majority of them would come to the US for better schooling,employment,opporotunity,standard of living.

But,he specified them living here for a reason.I'm not sure what his intent was,but it makes me look closer.

the man is a snake in words and actions.

But,he specified them living here for a reason.I'm not sure what his intent was,but it makes me look closer.Yeah, maybe striking "indivisible" from the pledge is becoming more and more appropriate... :(

the man is a snake in words and actions.

Still, less threatening to world security than his colleague george.

Still, less threatening to world security than his colleague george.
Well thats about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Well thats about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
how so, enlit one?

(that means well-informed)

The Iranian President is a puppet of the USA to infest the world society with fear, which they think gives them justification for their imperialist behavior world wide. The USA funds the Iranian President via a private bank, which is (more than obviously) owned by Jews. But to make it more confusing the USA told him to hate the Jews by any means necessary. The regime of Iran has come to such contradictions where they wipe their asses with pictures of prominent zionists on toilet paper. This toilet paper is funded by a bank called Goldstein.

You write a letter like this when you want to fuck someone.

Bingo!

This letter was probably written less for U.S. citizens, and more for moderates in his own country.

He is a politician, and not everyone in Iran is a hardliner...good PR, nothing more.

I could care less of his motives. What I do care about is at least he is trying to open up dialogue, and with dialogue, peace and understanding are more likely.

About midway through, he refers to the hundreds of thousands or Iranians living in the US.
It almost feels like a subtle threat.

You feel threatened by this?

Hundreds of thousands of my Iranian compatriots are living amongst you in friendship and peace, and are contributing positively to your society. Our people have been in contact with you over the past many years and have maintained these contacts despite the unnecessary restrictions of US authorities.

the man is a snake in words and actions.

Of course he is. He's a politician.

You feel threatened by this?

I know I do. I mean, all those peaceful Iranians are plotting something. We should put them all in...internment camps, because there is bound to be an uprising from them, to help their ebul leaders!

One point to remember is that the letter was most likely not meant for westerners despite who it was originally sent.

Once US troops are out of Iraq there will be the historical moment of two countries that both are under shia control and have shia majority sharing a border, and no-one knows yet how that will turn out. To guarantee a good outcome, Ahmadinejad has to convince the Iraq Shiites that he's the good guy until that happens, and it might be surprisingly soon.

Fried Tuna;12015403']One point to remember is that the letter was most likely not meant for westerners despite who it was originally sent.

Once US troops are out of Iraq there will be the historical moment of two countries that both are under shia control and have shia majority sharing a border, and no-one knows yet how that will turn out. To guarantee a good outcome, Ahmadinejad has to convince the Iraq Shiites that he's the good guy until that happens, and it might be surprisingly soon.


Lets say we leave Iraq, and the Shi'ites want to join with Iraq. So what? A group of people have the right to determine their leaders, and future, even if it goes against out wishes in the west.

Lets say we leave Iraq, and the Shi'ites want to join with Iraq. So what? A group of people have the right to determine their leaders, and future, even if it goes against out wishes in the west.

The Kurds and Sunnis probably wont like it.

Still, my best quess is that after 1300 or so years of always fighting everyone the shiias won't realize they can be nice to each other and just end up killing each other anyway.

Fried Tuna;12015517']The Kurds and Sunnis probably wont like it.

Still, my best quess is that after 1300 or so years of always fighting everyone the shiias won't realize they can be nice to each other and just end up killing each other anyway.

Well the Sunni and Kurds can have their own nations too. Any people that want their own nation should have the right to self determination

Well the Sunni and Kurds can have their own nations too. Any people that want their own nation should have the right to self determination

I do hope that after more than 80 years the right to self-determination (aka the Wilson doctrine) is recognised to Kurds. But I don't think it will happen: a large part of the Kurdistan territory (as originally established after WW1) is occupied by Turkey, a very close ally of the US; and Turkey is so anti-Kurd and blatantly nationalist that a man can be imprisoned just for speaking Kurd language in public. I'm sure that the US will veto any UN resolution trying to enact the freedom of Kurdistan.

Anyway, the Wilson doctrine was already biased at the beginning: let's take a look at the Habsburg Empire. Czechs, Slovakians, Hungarians, Croatians, Slovenians were allowed self-determination. German-speakers weren't: southern Tyrol was arbitrarily given to Italy.

Back to the OP, it is sad that the US have such a discredited president. This allows even theocratic regimes like Iran to score points against the US in a debate.

For the sake of the US, Bush should resign - his policies have been totally based on the "war on terror", and he's failed to accomplish anything but fueling hate and despise towards his country.

1.Did Bush catch Osama Bin Laden? No.
2.Did Bush catch the Taliban leader the mullah Omar? No.
3.Did the Bush administration lie to the UN about Iraqi WMD? Yes.
4.Did the US-led coalition succeed in enforcing peace and democracy in Iraq? No.
5.Did the US-led coalition succeed in enforcing peace and democracy in Afghanistan? No.
6.Did the "war on terror" prevent terrorism in other countries who supported "war on terror", like Spain or Britain? No.
7.Did the "war on terror" fuel more muslim fundamentalism? Yes.
8.Is Bush even capable of using a pen and writing back to Ahmadinejad or to Iranians, and debating things in a civil manner? No.
9.Do americans enjoy a better lifestyle, a better welfare, a better education, a better health than they did in year 2000? No.
10.Did US influence persuade the Iranian citizens to vote for a more libertarian government? No.

The Bush administration is a total failure, as proven by the resignation of Rumsfeld. And the Democratic Party would be well advised to avoid centrism and impose a sharp turn on US policies. If the Democratic Party is too lax on Bush, I don't think the US citizens will vote for the democratic candidate to presidency.

By the way, Ahmadinejad has some stunning similarities with Bush:
1.is a shameless liar
2.fuels extremism and violence for his own political agenda
3.doesn't give a damn about what's good for the whole country
4.uses religion as ultimate justification of his means and ends

8.Is Bush even capable of using a pen and writing back to Ahmadinejad or to Iranians, and debating things in a civil manner? No.

well, he debated John Kerry, the man with three faces, with a civil tongue and has signed multiple legislations into law... i think he can manage.

and the reason why we still arent back to pre-2000 election "standards" is because of 9/11 and the reverberating effects felt on the economy. only a year ago were we able to stumble back to our economic starting point pre-9/11.

and no, this isnt some way right wing nutjob attack saying democrats didnt do a thing... all im saying is 9/11 began a period of economic depression in the US, from which we apparently have yet to come out of.

it took FDR 15 years and a war to get us out of the Great Depression, so give politics and economists some time.

That letter is nothing more than standard Iranian propaganda, carefully crafted to distract the west. It should be ignored. If you want to hear his true feelings read a transcript of one of the speeches he has made to his own people, out of the eye of the mainstream media. He is on his way to becoming the next Hitler.

well, he debated John Kerry, the man with three faces, with a civil tongue and has signed multiple legislations into law... i think he can manage.

I know he could manage, but I fail to understand why doesn't he reply to a propaganda move with another simple and civil propaganda move. He's letting Ahmadinejad score a point, and that's bad.


and the reason why we still arent back to pre-2000 election "standards" is because of 9/11 and the reverberating effects felt on the economy. only a year ago were we able to stumble back to our economic starting point pre-9/11.
and no, this isnt some way right wing nutjob attack saying democrats didnt do a thing... all im saying is 9/11 began a period of economic depression in the US, from which we apparently have yet to come out of.
it took FDR 15 years and a war to get us out of the Great Depression, so give politics and economists some time.

Usually wars are good for the economy, expecially when no significant damage is dealt on the production system (and the 9/11 isn't significant damage to the US, 3000 casualties on a population of 300M: I think of something on the lines of the bombing of Coventry or the Ruhrgebiet, with major destruction everywhere, no lack of respect for dead people but simply sense of proportions).
One of the things that helped the US recover from the Depression was WW2 and the Lend-Lease act. I think that some major military contractors like Boeing, Lockheed do benefit from the actual state of war. Also the major US oil corps have benefited from the rise of the oil prices. The problem is the income difference between the poorer and the richer sector of the US society, imho.

The American propaganda machine has been greatly neglected in the past few decades :(

I know he could manage, but I fail to understand why doesn't he reply to a propaganda move with another simple and civil propaganda move. He's letting Ahmadinejad score a point, and that's bad.



Usually wars are good for the economy, expecially when no significant damage is dealt on the production system (and the 9/11 isn't significant damage to the US, 3000 casualties on a population of 300M: I think of something on the lines of the bombing of Coventry or the Ruhrgebiet, with major destruction everywhere, no lack of respect for dead people but simply sense of proportions).
One of the things that helped the US recover from the Depression was WW2 and the Lend-Lease act. I think that some major military contractors like Boeing, Lockheed do benefit from the actual state of war. Also the major US oil corps have benefited from the rise of the oil prices. The problem is the income difference between the poorer and the richer sector of the US society, imho.

yup. those wars certainly do help. thats part of my mention with the whole FDR thing.

anywho, the whole 9/11 - econ thing happened because, all of a sudden, you had people not flying in planes because they were afraid of dying. so you have this 2-3 year period where you have the worst possible hit on airline traffic (hell, i had to fly just to Mobile, 'bama, and i was nervous) and people arent boarding planes. so airline companies nix a whole lot of jobs. well, turns out people start buying less, a sign the economy is in trouble, so more jobs get nixed. well, finally (and it may be because of tax breaks or because of dumb luck or american greed, perhaps) 2 years ago people start buying goods again and the economy starts to grow. that was my whole argument in a large nutshell.

That letter is nothing more than standard Iranian propaganda, carefully crafted to distract the west. It should be ignored. If you want to hear his true feelings read a transcript of one of the speeches he has made to his own people, out of the eye of the mainstream media. He is on his way to becoming the next Hitler.

How can he become the next Hitler? for one, hes leading a government founded on the principal of a theocracy, or government dicated by the populist religion. Hitler, on the other hand, promoted fascism, a country united by the beliefs of its leader and not its religion.

second of all, the reason why Hitler came into power was Germany was in an economic superinflation crisis. German marks were worth more for fire kindling than for money.

three, Hitler was thrown in jail for his thoughts of creating the third reich and... wrote a book. whens the last time youve seen this guy in jail or write some kind of novel?

finally, Hitler found a scapegoat for all of Germany's problems and executed them for it. the Iranian leader finds America to be his scapegoat... but whens the last time youve seen Americans slaughtered in Iran.

the 1980s, you say?

anywho, the whole 9/11 - econ thing happened because, all of a sudden, you had people not flying in planes because they were afraid of dying. so you have this 2-3 year period where you have the worst possible hit on airline traffic (hell, i had to fly just to Mobile, 'bama, and i was nervous) and people arent boarding planes. so airline companies nix a whole lot of jobs. well, turns out people start buying less, a sign the economy is in trouble, so more jobs get nixed. well, finally (and it may be because of tax breaks or because of dumb luck or american greed, perhaps) 2 years ago people start buying goods again and the economy starts to grow. that was my whole argument in a large nutshell.

I see... but I think that people just got used to this "terror threat" and don't mind a lot anymore.
The US personal dept per capita is the world's highest (iirc), so I think that the economy will benefit from a less "happy" purchasing habit. Less credit, more cash. It's bad for overall economy to live above oneself's capabilities - how many people have gone bankrupt because of credit cards? If a buyer can't pay what he has bought, it's worse for the industry.

How can he become the next Hitler? for one, hes leading a government founded on the principal of a theocracy, or government dicated by the populist religion. Hitler, on the other hand, promoted fascism, a country united by the beliefs of its leader and not its religion.

second of all, the reason why Hitler came into power was Germany was in an economic superinflation crisis. German marks were worth more for fire kindling than for money.

three, Hitler was thrown in jail for his thoughts of creating the third reich and... wrote a book. whens the last time youve seen this guy in jail or write some kind of novel?

finally, Hitler found a scapegoat for all of Germany's problems and executed them for it. the Iranian leader finds America to be his scapegoat... but whens the last time youve seen Americans slaughtered in Iran.

the 1980s, you say?
He wants to kill all of the jews. He denies the Holocaust and at the same time is helping to set the stage for another one. Jews are already regarded as sub-human vermin in Iran.

I see... but I think that people just got used to this "terror threat" and don't mind a lot anymore.
The US personal dept per capita is the world's highest (iirc), so I think that the economy will benefit from a less "happy" purchasing habit. Less credit, more cash. It's bad for overall economy to live above oneself's capabilities - how many people have gone bankrupt because of credit cards? If a buyer can't pay what he has bought, it's worse for the industry.

well, a lot of countries are actually in debt because of that silly World Bank that forces every country (and i MEAN every country) to take out a loan. silly.

i actually believe in a higher government deficit because it usually begets great economic gains (I.E. - FDR's new deal policy in the depression)

He wants to kill all of the jews. He denies the Holocaust and at the same time is helping to set the stage for another one. Jews are already regarded as sub-human vermin in Iran.

and jews are regarded as sub-human vermin in palestine, lebanon, syria, and (at one point in time) egypt.

would you be so quick as to declare the leaders of these countries "lil Hitlers" as well?

and no, he does not want to kill all of the jews. see, this is a vastly mistaken assumption - he doesnt want to kill all of the jews, but the idea of a jewish state is an abomination to him. im not saying hes the nicest kid in the sandbox, but hes not Hitler.

I wasn't aware that Iran is God-fearing, truth-loving and justice-seeking. While I agree with very little that Bush has done, I don't think I would trust this guy as far as Bush could kick him. It's my opinion that he thinks he can play the American people to make the changes in Washington that he wants
by sucking up to us.

I had a nice long post typed up but I don't want to continue this discussion here much longer. So here is something that is more to the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWIK8YTZS8