NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright, here's the deal. I'm working on a Novel. It's the first serious attempt I'm making at writing one, and I need just a tad of help, and considering the concept of the novel, I think NSG would be a great place to get some input.

The concept can basically be explained as a modern day adaption of Orwell's 1984. It's going to be set in the near distant future, say about 20-ish years from now, with the US as the focal point, and it's current political atmosphere as the basis for the events. The plan is not to be a copy-paste of 1984, of course, but just the basic premise of what mine shall be like.

Also, I would like to note that the political party I'm going to use is going to be ambiguous, and vague, so that niether current party will actually be the "culprit", but instead there will be elements of both parties, and it will be largely open-ended as far as which will gain control.

Here's a short outline of how I wish for the book to work out:

Overture

Premise: A nation has lost its freedom of free thought, and has given itself over to a tyranically zealous government, believing that they are free to do as they wish, as long as it is the freedom that the government allows.

Location: Non-descript nation, reminiscent of America?

Time: Near future, possible 10(poss. 20-25)? years from now.

"Main Character": "Middleclass-ish", works in menial job, umarried, follows unquestionably(at beginning) the dogmas of the government, changes begin in middle, and is a revolutionary towards end

Other major Character:

"Leader"-Figure head of government, speech filled with zealous speak, and dogmatic and idealogical words.

"Revolutionary"- Works in nothing job, seems extremely dogmatic and unquestioning of government.
Meets main character in beginning, subtly changes main character in middle, and has changed main character into revolutionary at end.

Part One

Chapter One: Introduces main character, the nation.

Chapter Two: Introduces dogmatic Government, working of government, possible the revolution?

Chapter Three: Main character meets "revolutionary" at government sponsored event?

Chapter Four: Main Character starts questioning government, after a certain event

Part Two(Short time later)

Chapter 1: Main Character is searching for materials on the "revolution", is currently hiding himself from his "revolutionary" thoughts

Chapter 2: Main character is confronted by "revolutionary", or perhaps is discovered, to which he denies what he does, and is in fear of being "found out" for the next few days?

Chapter 3: Main Character considers going into hiding
or
Main Character plans on killing "revolutionary"

Chapter 4: Main Character is kidnapped.

Part Three(shortly thereafter):

Chapter 1: Main Character in cell, believing "revolutionary" has turned him in, and is imprisoned by the government.

Chapter 2: Main character is interrogated by what he believes are agents of government.

Chapter 3: Main character is in cell, wondering what is going to happen to him. "Revolutionary" enters, ques him in.

Chapter 4: Main Character is released, now a revolutionary himself, hiding this fact from the world best he can.

Part Four(Some time later, yet to be decided):

Chapter 1: Main Character is trying to keep his involvement hidden from others.

Chapter 2: Main Character at revolutionary HQ, discussion of bringing down government is being considered

Chapter 3: "Revolutionary" approaches main character, has misgivings about revolution.

Chapter 4: Main character is sent on certain mission, in which he is almost caught.

Chapter 5: Government strengthens control, the mission was discovered, uses that as reasoning. Fear amongst the revolutionaries for fear of being caught before their plan may begin.

Part Five:

Chapter 1: Revolutionaries plan on immediate actions at HQ.

Chapter 2: Government attacks revolutionary HQ, captures Main Character, various Revolutionaries, and "Revolutionary"

Chapter 3: Main Character is in cell, similar to that of before, wondering what is going to happen.

Chapter 4: Interogation of Main character, in similar fassion as before.

Chapter 5: Time spent in cell, subsequent interrogations, beating, etc.

Chapter 6: "End of book", revolutionaries are dealt with in normal government fashion


Now a little more explaining. In my novel, all forms of free thought and free speech are removed from society, which is where I actually thought of the current name of the Novel, Overture, as. The other reason for this is largely due to particular classical music pieces that inspired parts of the book, such as the first chapter's public executions was thought of while listening to Beethoven's 9th, Part 4 largely is inspired by the 1812 overture and Flight of the Valkyries, Chapter 1 Part 5 was inspired by the army cadence "When Johnny Comes marching Home Again", Chapter 2 Part 5 by "Hallelujah!", and so forth and so on. I'm planning on referencing said works throughout the books, and how these works are sought to be destroyed, among other forms of free thought. However, I plan on having a bit of irony in this, as the government itself will be using "the arts" for it's own uses, so to speak.

The most important part of the book, for me, is the last chapter, which I guarentee will not have a happy ending. The overall message I want to convey with this book is that it is not a good place, it is infact a rather poor place to live in, and thus a "happy ending" will not be optimal. Haven't yet decided on the specifics of the ending, but that's the jist.

Also, after giving some thought since I have written the outline, and the a rough draft of the first chapter, I think I'm going to forgoe a central figure head, and branch off of 1984 a bit more, as I feel it would better convey the message for my novel.

So, here's what I need help on:

1. Any tips for writing a novel from those who have done it?
2. Has a novel already been written that is nearly the same as this, in recent years, with the same overall premise?
3. I need idea's for more meaty main characters(I'm going with only a few central characters, so as not to muddle things up).
4. Any ideaologies that may fit rather well in the book.
5. Really, any input would be wonderful.

Also, that outline is just to give me a rough idea of the timeline I wish to present, and is not set in stone, as far as chapters go.

Might be interesting. Just be careful, as this is not a new and unheard idea, so you need to put in some totally new ideas, twists, and possibly a lot of (dark) humor to get it published.

I especially like the ending; happy endings are great, but they should be used in moderation in literature. I'd suggest that the book ends with the main character being thrown into jail, or even a hospital for criminally insane, for life. That would leave a kind of cliffhangerish feel, which I think reigns supreme over any other type of ending.

I've written a rather long novel, but haven't sent it to a publisher yet (my friend is supposed to read it first and give his ideas, and he seems to be taking his damn time with it), so I don't know if I can offer the kind of help you're looking for.

Chapter 3: Main Character considers going into hiding
or
Main Character plans on killing "revolutionary"


Killing is always more fun. Maybe the revolutionary tells the main character to meet him to talk (or her, as I strongly suspect you're planning some kind of romance there). The main character plans to kill the revolutionary, but is captured just before he does it.

Chapter 2: Government attacks revolutionary HQ, captures Main Character, various Revolutionaries, and "Revolutionary"

This requires a mole in the revolutionary organization. My idea would be a member of another revolutionary group with slightly different goals. To add more irony, your group could have their own mole with similar intentions in that other group, and the groups would meet in captivity.

If you have more questions, I'm happy to help as much as my capabilities permit.

Because the world needs another dystopian novel.

When writing a novel, you must always make sure that you are writing a novel that you YOURSELF would actually want to read. There are more 1984 spin-offs than grains of sand on a (granted, quite tiny) beach, you have to constantly make sure that what you are writing actually adds something to the genre, and isn't merely a cheap imitation.

If you really want to flex your creative muscles around the themes expressed in 1984, perhaps you could find yourself a digital camera and make a film version of it. Because, frankly, I think the literature market is saturated with novels like yours.

Best of luck!

Might be interesting. Just be careful, as this is not a new and unheard idea, so you need to put in some totally new ideas, twists, and possibly a lot of (dark) humor to get it published.


Yes, that's the point really. I know there are omre dystopian novels out there than one can count, but I want mine to be a very dark novel.


I especially like the ending; happy endings are great, but they should be used in moderation in literature. I'd suggest that the book ends with the main character being thrown into jail, or even a hospital for criminally insane, for life. That would leave a kind of cliffhangerish feel, which I think reigns supreme over any other type of ending.

Hmm... that's an interesting idea I never actually had thought of doing. I was rather planning on killing him off in the last chapter, in the same type of public execution that he was rallying for in the first, but I think I may have to consider that.


Killing is always more fun. Maybe the revolutionary tells the main character to meet him to talk (or her, as I strongly suspect you're planning some kind of romance there). The main character plans to kill the revolutionary, but is captured just before he does it.


That's what I was considering happening actually. I am leaning heavily towards it.


This requires a mole in the revolutionary organization. My idea would be a member of another revolutionary group with slightly different goals. To add more irony, your group could have their own mole with similar intentions in that other group, and the groups would meet in captivity.

Actually that would fit nicely with what I have in mind as to how the story works out.


When writing a novel, you must always make sure that you are writing a novel that you YOURSELF would actually want to read. There are more 1984 spin-offs than grains of sand on a (granted, quite tiny) beach, you have to constantly make sure that what you are writing actually adds something to the genre, and isn't merely a cheap imitation.

That's really the point. My real intention with writing this novel is to see if I can actually produce an interesting novel. Get my feet wet, and the genre is one of my favorites, as well, so really that's why I chose this particular genre.


If you really want to flex your creative muscles around the themes expressed in 1984, perhaps you could find yourself a digital camera and make a film version of it. Because, frankly, I think the literature market is saturated with novels like yours.

Best of luck!


Funny story, really. This idea began as a film concept I had come up with. But, alas, with no money to speak of, it's just a dream right now.

I have like 4 novels in the works, and like 3 screenplays, not to mention a game or two. But alas, I never finish them :(

Hmm... that's an interesting idea I never actually had thought of doing. I was rather planning on killing him off in the last chapter, in the same type of public execution that he was rallying for in the first, but I think I may have to consider that.

It would be funnily ironic, but the problem with public executions is that it might give the people the funny idea that they're not free to criticize the government. It's more convenient for the government if the dissidents just disappear. Of course, it all depends on what kind of propaganda the government is spreading to justify their actions.


That's what I was considering happening actually. I am leaning heavily towards it.

Be careful, though, because although the romance part is very popular in all kinds of fiction, it's still a cliché. I personally would do it so that the revolutionary falls in love with the main character, but he'd rather have the revolutionary's hot sister, who isn't really into that whole revolution stuff at all. But it's your call.

Every good novel needs a ditch.

It would be funnily ironic, but the problem with public executions is that it might give the people the funny idea that they're not free to criticize the government. It's more convenient for the government if the dissidents just disappear. Of course, it all depends on what kind of propaganda the government is spreading to justify their actions.

Well, I'm toying with the idea that although the "revolutionaries" exist, the Government has "manufactured" them, in a way, either by creating the revolution itself(but not necessarily the revolutionaries), or by making it seem far larger than it truly is. I'm leaning towards the latter, as the idea is that the executions are done to bring fear to the populace due to a looming enemy that is waiting to destroy them. The idea is that the executions are done to bring fear to the people, and through this fear they gain control of the people. So, in order to strike fear, the create enemies, so to speak.


Be careful, though, because although the romance part is very popular in all kinds of fiction, it's still a cliché. I personally would do it so that the revolutionary falls in love with the main character, but he'd rather have the revolutionary's hot sister, who isn't really into that whole revolution stuff at all. But it's your call.

I was actually going to forgoe a romance, however, the idea of the female revolutionary love interest is an interesting one, and I think I could spin it in one of two ways:

1. The Main Character and the "Revolutionary" are the main romance, with someone closeto the "revolutionary" or the Main Character having a romantic interest in one of them, and possibly upon discovery of the romance, he/she turns on them and reveals them to the government. This could have a further irony in that this character could perhaps in turn be taken by the government for his/her dealing with the revolution.

2. The "Revolutionary" has a romantic interest in the Main Character, however the Main Character has a romantic interest in someone close to the "The Revolutionary", and due to this, the "revolutionary" switches sides.

Both seem rather intriguing, and would go rather nicely, without being to cliche' of a romantic interest, I would think.

dont forget the sex.

http://www.truckpoetry.net/resources.php

the outline thingy is very helpful, as is the character creator if you ever need a random character






http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=beldarancara&keyword=out_lines&filter=all

this page has a lot of questions that you can "ask" your characters to flesh them out more

I would recomend before you start writing at all to do 3 things

1 write a summary of your story (like you might find on the back of the book)
2 open excel (or generic spreadsheet) and map out all your settings and characters, update it often
3 back up everything on google docs that you can (of course you can't back it up until you write it, but set up an account if you don't have one)

dont forget the sex.

Ah, the glory of sex. I am half considering making sex morally wrong in my novel, but I'm concerned it would be a bit to 1984-ish.

Perhaps the person romantically interested in the Main Character would perhaps catch the other two in the act, in a way, and turn them over.

However, I think that wouldn't work out as well as being turned over for being part of the "revolution".

Well, I'm toying with the idea that although the "revolutionaries" exist, the Government has "manufactured" them, in a way, either by creating the revolution itself(but not necessarily the revolutionaries), or by making it seem far larger than it truly is. I'm leaning towards the latter, as the idea is that the executions are done to bring fear to the populace due to a looming enemy that is waiting to destroy them. The idea is that the executions are done to bring fear to the people, and through this fear they gain control of the people. So, in order to strike fear, the create enemies, so to speak.

Alright then, that would work. However, in that case it probably wouldn't make sense if you didn't execute the main character in the end.

I was actually going to forgoe a romance, however, the idea of the female revolutionary love interest is an interesting one, and I think I could spin it in one of two ways:

1. The Main Character and the "Revolutionary" are the main romance, with someone closeto the "revolutionary" or the Main Character having a romantic interest in one of them, and possibly upon discovery of the romance, he/she turns on them and reveals them to the government. This could have a further irony in that this character could perhaps in turn be taken by the government for his/her dealing with the revolution.

2. The "Revolutionary" has a romantic interest in the Main Character, however the Main Character has a romantic interest in someone close to the "The Revolutionary", and due to this, the "revolutionary" switches sides.

Both seem rather intriguing, and would go rather nicely, without being to cliche' of a romantic interest, I would think.

I myself would go with the latter, although perhaps I wouldn't make the revolutionary switch sides intentionally. Maybe she would just give her love priority over her mission, and therefore would screw things up.

Alright then, that would work. However, in that case it probably wouldn't make sense if you didn't execute the main character in the end.


Pretty much. It's not necessarily set in stone how it will end, however, the one sure thing is that the "enemy" will be made public.


I myself would go with the latter, although perhaps I wouldn't make the revolutionary switch sides intentionally. Maybe she would just give her love priority over her mission, and therefore would screw things up.

Perhaps a good spin may be that she gives a tip on the female love interest for being an "enemy", and in turn the Main Character is caught in the process? Perhaps even the "revolutionary" is caught in the process.

Perhaps a good spin may be that she gives a tip on the female love interest for being an "enemy", and in turn the Main Character is caught in the process? Perhaps even the "revolutionary" is caught in the process.

Perhaps. And the love interest wouldn't even have to have anything to do with any revolution or other thought crime, as I already suggested. In any case, all of the revolutionaries have to get caught in the end. However, if it happens because of the revolutionary's jealousy, that might divert the story's focus from the social message and the main character's personal growth into the love story, and you'd want to avoid that.

I would suggest naming a character Horatio and involving graphic sex scenes.

Gotta say, Seangoli, I'm not impressed. It seems evey young and aspiring writer wants to do an anti-government piece but just ends up throwing 1984 and V into a blender. Sometimes something with corporate conspiracies, genetic manipulation (G for Gattaca...God that's pathetic), or some other paranoid fantasy gets tossed in but the end result is always the same. A rip-off of classics poorly sewn together into a Franken's Monster.

No matter how facist an American political party may seem in the delusional minds of a fringe few, there is no way that a legally elected individual or congress could strip the first 5 freedoms in the foremost amendment of the Bill from the town of Rights anymore than they could strip the next 9. Taking over the world is a difficult thing to do. Especially if you play by the rules.

First off, be more specific. You don't have to take a side as the writer nor force the audience to take a side in who they support. Just tell a story about two opposing factions.

Avoid a super-hero/super-villain story and the stormtrooper effect at all costs. It really kills the story when the hero never gets hit but can mow down all who stand before him with incredible ease. There's just no suspense, no thrill, no danger.

I suggest a scientifically accurate fiction book. Hard sci-fi is more fun than you think, both to write and to read. A good basic premise is 'the Exodus'. A fairly felxible feature set about present showcases the sojourn of some disgruntled denizens of terra firma who decide to set out for parsecs unknown in a giant colony ship or three. Possible plots include a revolt on the ship, discovering the target planet is infested with the Andromeda strain after establishing a colony, successful establishment of the colony and reception of a frantic distress call from Earth that suddenly goes silent mid transit, a return to Earth in response to the call back or to show off what's been accomplished, the possibilities are really endless. Well, not really. I'm sure that if enough plausible ideas were stated some would eventually be poor attempted rehashings. But that's not really the point.

Gotta say, Seangoli, I'm not impressed. It seems evey young and aspiring writer wants to do an anti-government piece but just ends up throwing 1984 and V into a blender. Sometimes something with corporate conspiracies, genetic manipulation (G for Gattaca...God that's pathetic), or some other paranoid fantasy gets tossed in but the end result is always the same. A rip-off of classics poorly sewn together into a Franken's Monster.


Well, here's the thing, I'm not actually go for a ripoff, and I'm not going for a paranoid fantasy type, as the point is in no way going to be indictive of how the future may unfold. The overall message is going to basically be that we should not allow fear to rule us, really.


No matter how facist an American political party may seem in the delusional minds of a fringe few, there is no way that a legally elected individual or congress could strip the first 5 freedoms in the foremost amendment of the Bill from the town of Rights anymore than they could strip the next 9. Taking over the world is a difficult thing to do. Especially if you play by the rules.


As I said, the society in my novel is going to be a fear produced society, one in which the government creates the enemy to produce the fear, so that the people are far more willing to give up their freedom. I'm using the basis of history, in which many elected officials have actually taken rights away in times of war and producing fear in the people, only this is going to take it a step further.


First off, be more specific. You don't have to take a side as the writer nor force the audience to take a side in who they support. Just tell a story about two opposing factions.


And that's really the point. The government is going to be ambigous, in a sense, so as not to take any sides in the current government, but instead an over all message that is a bit more universal.


Avoid a super-hero/super-villain story and the stormtrooper effect at all costs. It really kills the story when the hero never gets hit but can mow down all who stand before him with incredible ease. There's just no suspense, no thrill, no danger.


The main character, or hero in this story, is most definately not going to be unkillable, nor invulnerable. That would definately detract. I most definately do not want the unstoppable hero, whom saves the day against all odds. That is not the point.

Basically, the premise is going to based in what is happening now, in terms of war, fear, and the abridgement of rights, only it won't specify necessarily which is the culprit as to whom(In current terms) brought about the mess. Instead, I'm going to leave that part up to the audience to decide.

This is all quite helpful, really.

Perhaps. And the love interest wouldn't even have to have anything to do with any revolution or other thought crime, as I already suggested. In any case, all of the revolutionaries have to get caught in the end. However, if it happens because of the revolutionary's jealousy, that might divert the story's focus from the social message and the main character's personal growth into the love story, and you'd want to avoid that.

Well, perhaps the revolutionaries jealosy could be spun into the message. I'll need to toy around with that particular part, and see if I can work it into my overall message.

Ah, the glory of sex. I am half considering making sex morally wrong in my novel, but I'm concerned it would be a bit to 1984-ish.


Why don't you have a gay revolutionary?

Not a monster raving homo, in frilly shirts and platforms, just an average, everyday gay guy. Well, not that average, obviously, as he's a revolutionary, but you know what I mean.

Make no reference to homosexuality, just deal with exactly as a million authors have already dealt with a blossoming hetero relationship. No one would see that coming.

I would suggest naming a character Horatio and involving graphic sex scenes.

Alas poor Fellatio, I knew him well........

Ah, the glory of sex. I am half considering making sex morally wrong in my novel, but I'm concerned it would be a bit to 1984-ish.

Make sex something that the government mandates and controls. You must show up at a government office for an attempt at procreation once a year, like filing your taxes, but all other sexual activity is verboten. That way, that state can ensure procreation and the continuation of the species and the state, but it's done only for that purpose.

Why don't you have a gay revolutionary?

Not a monster raving homo, in frilly shirts and platforms, just an average, everyday gay guy. Well, not that average, obviously, as he's a revolutionary, but you know what I mean.

Make no reference to homosexuality, just deal with exactly as a million authors have already dealt with a blossoming hetero relationship. No one would see that coming.

I approve of this. Give either the love interest or the main character an ambiguous name(one which could be either male or female) and never refer to him/her as him/her/etc.

I approve of this. Give either the love interest or the main character an ambiguous name(one which could be either male or female) and never refer to him/her as him/her/etc.

Now that's clever.

A word of adivce: when you try to please everyone you please no one. Universal messages are often the least relevant to the reader because we live in a world of specifics. If I found something vague and ambiguous (ly Gay Duo) I'd want to dig through the muck to find the specifics. Never giving specifics can be frustrating to the audience. Or at least the audience that cares about what they're taking in and that will make up the bulk of a books readers because it requires effort on the part of the assembled mass of sweaty people.

When you say the premise is going to based in what is happening now it sounds like a poorly disguised pot shot at the prez. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that it's been done to death and then some so you'd be beating the living crap out of a deceased Equus caballus. And if the whole thing is about stripping rights with fear and a never-ending war then we come right back to it being a rip of 1984. Same thing with Fearless Leader and Big Brother. And the controlling party in your proposed novel and the Inner Party.

Phil said it best in "Terror From Beyond ImageShack": "You see, Joel, when a cartoon becomes popular it attracts people. And these people have no imagination or creativity so they just create the exact same thing only they'll change the words around. Except they don't even do that usually."

And what novel is complete without a duck and fuck for the hero? Put him in at least one gun fight and then switch to sex scene with some random whore (and I use the term loosely) immediatly after for no specific reason. In fact, it'd probably be best if the characters themselves were suprised at the sudden scene transition. You could set it in its own chapter and call it the supplemental to the next chapter. (Chapter 1> Chapter2> Supplemental to Chapter 3> Chapter 4...) I know it makes no sense but that's what it felt like when the opening log in a Star Trek episode was a supplement to a log we never heard of. Annoying and funny at the same time.

Yeah, I'll second what others have already said, the dystopian novel is rather overdone and it's very easy to fall into the trap of ripping off of 1984, considering that almost every author and their dog has written a dystopian novel, it seems. I know the problem, myself, though. I've been trying to write a novel for a while now, but much of the premise seems a bit too similar to Neon Genesis Evangelion. It can be very hard to break away from something that has influenced you greatly. Generally, though, if you are afraid your idea is too similar to an existing one, chances are it is.