NationStates Jolt Archive

Let us assume, for argument's sake, that there is somewhere a supreme being that created everything, has always existed and always will, and is the cause and unifier of all phenomena and matter. Let us assume further that all 'who created the creator?' arguments are rendered invalid by some logical construct we have come up with to neutralise them. (Although, in the real sense, these arguments do exist and that is one thing theists must wrestle with.)

First, examine 'everything'. 'Everything' is pretty big -- the universe we know and love is so massive relative to us that we cannot even comprehend the distances between its endpoints, if its surface can be said to have endpoints. And according to M-theory -- built on the kind of 'perfect' mathematics it seems likely a God or supreme creator would have designed -- our universe may well be little more than a tiny membrane, one of quintillions more, existing at every point in another universe, which in turn is merely one of quintillions more membranes in another... and so ad infinitum. If there is a creator to all this, such a creator would be so massive and incomprehensible that in relation we would be like protozoa attempting to explain the sky.

Aside from the 'it's really big' argument, we can also use some of the same 'proofs' of a Creator's existence to justify the idea that we cannot know whether there is a God and, if so, how it works:
- Human beings are imperfect.
- To justify the meaning of imperfect, there must be something perfect.
- Imperfect beings cannot comprehend perfection, because the very minds with which they might look upon the world are imperfect.
- Therefore, human beings cannot hope to understand anything perfect, which is God.

(However, I am uncomfortable with the first assumption, as there is no objective means of determining humans to be imperfect.)

Nonetheless, as humans are mortal, small beings with limited minds, we cannot understand something unlimited, such as God -- especially if we cannot even understand numbers like infinity, which many people cannot. Therefore, it is impossible for us to know whether there is a God or not, making agnosticism the only logical belief.

Criticisms and comments welcome, especially from those of us who actually are theists.

I should make a "Why nobody cares about your beliefs" thread.

I should make a "Why nobody cares about your beliefs" thread.

You'd be defeating the whole point of the internet.

I should make a "Why nobody cares about your beliefs" thread.
Possibly, but why should anyone care about that? :p

I'm Agnostic because I'm lazy, tbh. If I had any real conviction I'd probably still be Agnostic, but with some sort of reasoning construct similar to this one. Actually, do you mind if I borrow it? I imagine you didn't come up with it all on your lonesome in the first place.

Why I'm an agnostic; I'm lazy and the fence is a good place to sit comfortably.

I didn't read the OP.

I don't see the point of wasting my... eyejuices? on reading someone's justification for being unsure.

The main problem I have in considering the possibility of there being no higher power is that it leaves no explanation for original matter. In other words, agnostics too have to deal a with a question similar to "Who created the creator?"

I should make a "Why nobody cares about your beliefs" thread.

I dare you to! And you get a cookie if you do!

In a very basic sense, the differnce between a theist and an atheist is that one is stating that the effect is the begging of the long line of cause an effect that causes the effect that etc..., and a theist is saying that the cause is at the beggining.

An agnostic admits that he does not know and it would be impossible to know right now.