NationStates Jolt Archive

"DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A homeowners' association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs.

He said some residents believed the wreath was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.

"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus?"

The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything.

Kearns fired all five committee members."


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/27/peace.wreath.ap/index.html

Had this yeterday. I suggested ignoring all homeowners associations and refusing to give them any money.

Bob Kearns said some residents believed the wreath was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.
.....

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything.

Kearns fired all five committee members."
Seems to me that it's not so much a "some people find it offensive" as "I, Bob Kearns, find it offensive and, being a meddlesome petty-minded ratbag, will do everything I can to get rid of it".

I find it ironic that a lot of the "Patriotic" people are often the ones trying to undermind basic freedoms.

If this article was already posted here, I'm going to try and figure out how to delete this one. Sorry about that.

Seems to me that it's not so much a "some people find it offensive" as "I, Bob Kearns, find it offensive and, being a meddlesome petty-minded ratbag, will do everything I can to get rid of it".

I said it once and I will say it again, Bob Kearns is a dick.

Peace on Earth. I think that's part of the Christmas spirit, isn't it? Or was there a paragraph in the Patriot Act or the Military Tribunals (whatever) Act that outlawed it?

The entire architectural standards subcommittee of the HOA in question resigned in disagreement with Kearns and today's paper says he's backing off the $25 a day fine, too.

Bitch, its HER house, HER property, let HER do what she wants!

(unless its rented, then its not really her property. But there's still the whole freedom of expression thing)

The entire architectural standards subcommittee of the HOA in question resigned in disagreement with Kearns

I was under the impression that he fired them for disagreeing...

you get all kinds of crap from homeowners associations, like once hubby and I were told that we couldn't park our car in the drive because it was "too old" and that we had to buy "nuetral colored" blinds for my daughter's bedroom because the window faced the street.

they are all full of crap.

They can't do much to you if you don't abide by their rules, well, other than harrass you and there are cops to take care of that.

you get all kinds of crap from homeowners associations, like once hubby and I were told that we couldn't park our car in the drive because it was "too old" and that we had to buy "nuetral colored" blinds for my daughter's bedroom because the window faced the street.

they are all full of crap.

They can't do much to you if you don't abide by their rules, well, other than harrass you and there are cops to take care of that.

i bet you tell them were to go

iam happy to say we dont have them here

I was under the impression that he fired them for disagreeing...
I thought he threatened to fire them, but anyway, they've backed off now. Kearns and another board member changed their phone numbers to unlisted, too, they got so many calls.

My favorite part was the "some people thought it was a symbol of Satan" quote.

you get all kinds of crap from homeowners associations, like once hubby and I were told that we couldn't park our car in the drive because it was "too old" and that we had to buy "nuetral colored" blinds for my daughter's bedroom because the window faced the street.

they are all full of crap.

They can't do much to you if you don't abide by their rules, well, other than harrass you and there are cops to take care of that.

They are full of it, Smunkee, I agree, which is why I wouldn't live in a covenanted community. Their POV, though, is that you signed the covenant when you bought the house, so if they pass a resolution saying you can only have beige blinds, then you can only have beige blinds.

"DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A homeowners' association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs.

He said some residents believed the wreath was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.

"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus?"

The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything.

Kearns fired all five committee members."


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/27/peace.wreath.ap/index.html

I'm really starting to hate my country.

This reeks of personal vendetta. I wonder if Ms. Jensen turned down Mr. Kearns' advances at last year's Christmas party.

I'm really starting to hate my country.
Nah, this is trivial. Lots more important work to be done. Besides, HOAs provide a certain amount of humor.

This reeks of personal vendetta. I wonder if Ms. Jensen turned down Mr. Kearns' advances at last year's Christmas party.
There's a thought! :p

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

you get all kinds of crap from homeowners associations, like once hubby and I were told that we couldn't park our car in the drive because it was "too old" and that we had to buy "nuetral colored" blinds for my daughter's bedroom because the window faced the street.

they are all full of crap.

They can't do much to you if you don't abide by their rules, well, other than harrass you and there are cops to take care of that.

Well when they buy your house they can park whatever they like there and use whatever kind of blinds they like. Til then it's your property and they shouldn't have any say in what you do with it. Ought paint your house a really horrid combination of neon green and hot pink. Preferably in the most irregular pattern you can think of. Just to offend their delicate sensibilities. Fascist bastards.

You know, as an evil secularist, I am routinely told that I must be more "tolerant" of Christians and their various rituals. I must "respect" their right to tell me about how I'm a hell-bound sinner, and I must "respect" their belief that I deserve to be tortured for the rest of all eternity. I must show "tolerance" for their desire to force me, and everybody else, to observe their religious holidays, not to mention observing their individual moral code even when it comes to profoundly private issues like my own medical care.

And they can't tolerate a wreath.

If there is a Jesus, I'll bet he fucking hates these people.

And they can't tolerate a wreath.

If there is a Jesus, I'll bet he fucking hates these people.

In their defense it's a satanic wreath. Satan is big on the peace signs!

You know, as an evil secularist, I am routinely told that I must be more "tolerant" of Christians and their various rituals. I must "respect" their right to tell me about how I'm a hell-bound sinner, and I must "respect" their belief that I deserve to be tortured for the rest of all eternity. I must show "tolerance" for their desire to force me, and everybody else, to observe their religious holidays, not to mention observing their individual moral code even when it comes to profoundly private issues like my own medical care.

And they can't tolerate a wreath.

If there is a Jesus, I'll bet he fucking hates these people.

well said
i hope he hits them over the head with a bat

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

Socialists only want to take your money; Republicans want your soul.
:headbang:

Well when they buy your house they can park whatever they like there and use whatever kind of blinds they like. Til then it's your property and they shouldn't have any say in what you do with it. Ought paint your house a really horrid combination of neon green and hot pink. Preferably in the most irregular pattern you can think of. Just to offend their delicate sensibilities. Fascist bastards.

they fined us $30 a day for 3 years because of my Jeep, when they took us to court, to sue for the money (because I wasn't going to hand it over) the judge said and I quote "you people need to get a life" and dismissed their case.

To live in that neighborhood you have to join the HOA, if you don't pay the $$ they throw a big fit, but they really can't do anything to you...I mean they can fine you, but they don't have much recourse anyway.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.
And that's tyranny of the masses for ya. :rolleyes:
Well when they buy your house they can park whatever they like there and use whatever kind of blinds they like. Til then it's your property and they shouldn't have any say in what you do with it. Ought paint your house a really horrid combination of neon green and hot pink. Preferably in the most irregular pattern you can think of. Just to offend their delicate sensibilities. Fascist bastards.
I find that offensive. >.< :p
You know, as an evil secularist, I am routinely told that I must be more "tolerant" of Christians and their various rituals. I must "respect" their right to tell me about how I'm a hell-bound sinner, and I must "respect" their belief that I deserve to be tortured for the rest of all eternity. I must show "tolerance" for their desire to force me, and everybody else, to observe their religious holidays, not to mention observing their individual moral code even when it comes to profoundly private issues like my own medical care.

And they can't tolerate a wreath.

If there is a Jesus, I'll bet he fucking hates these people.

It's better for everyone if they keep their slave morality to themselves.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

But in a perfect world, she'd be enslaved.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

Even if the "rules" are pulled out of their ass on the spot, are a double standard and are selectively enforced? It could be said displaying An American flag or "support our troops" bumper stickers are equally offensive and divisive, but do you think this guy would threaten people for displaying those? No one should have to yield to idiocy and hypocrisy.

My fellow (American) Libertarians tell me that the privitization of government would solve all the world's problems. But then, actual examples of private governments (which is what homeowner's associations essentialy are) go and pull crap like this. So, instead of having the state constantly breathing down my neck while extracting taxes, I have a corporate board extracting "dues" while breathing down my neck, all the way to what color my blinds can be, where (how, when, why, etc...) I can park my own damn car, and what kind of holiday decorations I can have.

Geez, that's such a huge fucking improvement.

(I observe this kind of nonsense everyday, as I live right in the middle of what is essentially the Unimatrix One (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/ships/article/124169.html) of homeowner's associations. Well, I live in an apartment complex surrounded on all sides by homeowner's associations. The landlord/management company is still inane and incompetent, but at least it actually owns the building I live in, so it sort of has a legitimate justification to engage in the stupid behavior that it does. But as you might guess, I'm not really a fan of the Landlord/Tenant/Rent-based approach to privatized government either.)

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

Or she should tell that collection of totalitarian communists (and any other corporate collectivist entity) into which choice orifice it can stick it. She should inform them that individualism, security in one's own sovereignty, might be ugly and uncomfortable, but is nonetheless more conducive to dignified human liberty.

It's as simple as that.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

I think you'll find that there are no "rules" of the community. If she does not comply, the worst that they can legally do is ostracize her.

I think you'll find that there are no "rules" of the community. If she does not comply, the worst that they can legally do is ostracize her.

Aye. And frankly, it's not like she would want to associate with folks like that anyway.

Aye. And frankly, it's not like she would want to associate with folks like that anyway.

To be honest, from the article it doesn't look so much like "folks like that" as much as it does "that one douchebag on a power trip".

I think you'll find that there are no "rules" of the community. If she does not comply, the worst that they can legally do is ostracize her.

Depends on the nature of the HOA. Some get their power from covenants that run with the deeds of the community and they have the actual power to put liens on peoples houses if they don't pay their 'fines' and such.

If it's just some neighborhood group on the other hand......

But in a perfect world, she'd be enslaved.
Mmmmmm, slavery.....tastes like purple.....*drools*
Or she should tell that collection of totalitarian communists (and any other corporate collectivist entity) into which choice orifice it can stick it. She should inform them that individualism, security in one's own sovereignty, might be ugly and uncomfortable, but is nonetheless more conducive to dignified human liberty.

It's as simple as that.

A bodily one, no less.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

I'm now all for liberal blockbusting of conservative neighborhoods. We can disperse them, as well as make a tidy profit from the cheaply-sold property.

I think you'll find that there are no "rules" of the community. If she does not comply, the worst that they can legally do is ostracize her.

Yep, and I'm sure that this woman wouldn't miss the conversation with those people either.

The homeNazi's strike again! :eek:

The homeNazi's strike again! :eek:

Oh noes! It's the Potluck SS!:eek:

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

What? When did you turn into a communist???

"DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A homeowners' association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs.

He said some residents believed the wreath was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.

"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus?"

The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything.

Kearns fired all five committee members."


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/27/peace.wreath.ap/index.html

What a crock of shit. No way would I live in a homeowners association neighborhood.

She should accept the rules of the community and remove the wreath; it's as simple as that.

If she takes down that wreath, the terrorists win!

If she takes down that wreath, the terrorists win!

Perhaps the neighborhood board is a terrorist front! Trying to attack civil liberties of its residents! :eek:

What? When did you turn into a communist???

The point when he put a Murray Bookchin quote in his sig.

If she takes down that wreath, the terrorists win!

Perhaps the neighborhood board is a terrorist front! Trying to attack civil liberties of its residents! :eek:

Or they're the authoritarians profiting from the war on terror by using it as an excuse to infringe on civil liberties!:eek:

My ex-g/f (rather ex-ex-ex g/f)'s parents lived in a very pouncy part of town. Multi-million $ houses abounded.
There was one real grotty old house in another street that hadn't been painted for years. All the other homeowners on that street got together and demanded that the old guy living there paint his house (mostly just to improve their house prices). They badgered him apparently by he steadfastly refused. Eventually they even went to the extent of offering to pay for the paint.
At that point he agreed - and bought a dozen different colours to rainbow paint his house with. Totally pissed off the neighbours by all accounts.
I never met the him, but I thought he was a very cool old chap. Don't think any of his neighbours did.

My ex-g/f (rather ex-ex-ex g/f)'s parents lived in a very pouncy part of town. Multi-million $ houses abounded.
There was one real grotty old house in another street that hadn't been painted for years. All the other homeowners on that street got together and demanded that the old guy living there paint his house (mostly just to improve their house prices). They badgered him apparently by he steadfastly refused. Eventually they even went to the extent of offering to pay for the paint.
At that point he agreed - and bought a dozen different colours to rainbow paint his house with. Totally pissed off the neighbours by all accounts.
I never met the him, but I thought he was a very cool old chap. Don't think any of his neighbours did.

LMAO! I'm gonna be that old guy one day. :cool: Except they'll be bitching at me to paint my cave.:p