NationStates Jolt Archive

link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/27/nation-vote.html)

The House of Commons has overwhelmingly passed a motion recognizing Québécois as a nation within Canada.

Conservatives, most Liberal MPs, the NDP and the Bloc voted 266 to 16 in support of the controversial motion, which earlier in the day had prompted the resignation of Michael Chong as intergovernmental affairs minister.

Fifteen Liberal MPs voted against the motion, along with Independent MP Garth Turner.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper had introduced the surprise motion on Nov. 22, raising the ante on a Bloc Québécois motion that sought to declare Quebecers a nation without reference to Canada.

The motion states: "That this House recognize that the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada."

The prime minister has said he is using the word nation in a "cultural-sociological" rather than in a legal sense.

The nationhood idea has preoccupied Ottawa since the Bloc proposed a motion calling on the House to recognize Quebecers as a nation and Harper made a counter-proposal to define Québécois as a nation within Canada.

Over the following two days, the Bloc first amended its motion to say that they are a nation "currently within Canada" — leaving the door open to independence — and then declared its support for the government motion.

Liberal leadership hopefuls Gerard Kennedy, who doesn't have a seat in Parliament, and Ken Dryden announced on Monday that they opposed the motion.

Dryden and leadership candidate Joe Volpe voted against the motion.

Chong had said he would abstain from voting because the motion "implies the recognition of ethnicity.

"I do not believe in an ethnic nationalism. I believe in a civic nationalism."

What might this mean?

What might this mean?

Tensions increase within Canada.
Here in America? Squat! :)

And you arent on gabbly!

link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/27/nation-vote.html)



What might this mean?

Civil war.



I dunno.

Good for them! They are so different from the rest of Canada that their secession is probably for the best. Hopefully, everyone is happier. =)

link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/27/nation-vote.html)



What might this mean?

Quebec is the newpew of the USA?

Hehe...

He is warming up to free Alberta from Ottawa. Just watch and see. I told him a shiny new dollar is his, if he does.

Ironically, I was just discussing Quebec with some one today. I claimed Quebec would declare war on Canada and become a commonwealth of France.

Won't change anything it's just words nothing in a legal sense but I can't believe they get payed to do stuff like that. How about they actually do something instead of.... gah....

Ironically, I was just discussing Quebec with some one today. I claimed Quebec would declare war on Canada and become a commonwealth of France.

That would be funny to see.

IMHO, it's going to be interesting to see how this ends. Quebec might try to use this move as leverage for total independence. Would Ottawa allow that, though?

He is warming up to free Alberta from Ottawa. Just watch and see. I told him a shiny new dollar is his, if he does.
*sigh* You seperatists. At least take BC with you if you're going to go, okay?

well Civil War is almost absolutley inevitable. But the question really is, what will the canadians use as weapons?

Won't change anything it's just words nothing in a legal sense but I can't believe they get payed to do stuff like that. How about they actually do something instead of.... gah....
Like quitting Kyoto and trying to change health care? :rolleyes:
That would be funny to see.

IMHO, it's going to be interesting to see how this ends. Quebec might try to use this move as leverage for total independence. Would Ottawa allow that, though?
Not in this lifetime.

France wouldnt take them. They wouldnt be french enough.. isnt that ironic? shup Alanis.

Agree, it's only logical that a civil war will occur. I mean, it happened in the US only 150 years earlier so it's bound to happen in Canada.

Finally! its about time Canada made some noise that captures the worlds attention!


And to think, a few days ago this forum had a thread on quebec being a nation

well Civil War is almost absolutley inevitable. But the question really is, what will the canadians use as weapons?

Hockey sticks.

Like quitting Kyoto and trying to change health care? :rolleyes:

Not in this lifetime.

I was thinking something useful.... although now that you mention it maybe it is better that we distract him.

I don't know what benefit it will be to the Quebecois... aren't they rather landlocked?

I see it as muzzling them by giving it to them in name and then going on, business as usual.

*sigh* You seperatists. At least take BC with you if you're going to go, okay?

Certainly. You are more than welcome.

But doesnt your statement imply that you are a soft separatist?

I don't know what benefit it will be to the Quebecois... aren't they rather landlocked?


No.

The relationship here, if I'm right is essntianly making Qubec's relationship to Canada like Scotlands relationship to the UK?

I don't know what benefit it will be to the Quebecois... aren't they rather landlocked?

I see it as muzzling them by giving it to them in name and then going on, business as usual.

St Lawrence river and up north has water hudson bay and whatnot but apperently that's frozen over right now and it would take omeny to ship their goods up north instead of just shoving it in an ocean, but yeah st. Laurence (2 seperate spellings cause then at least one'll be right)

I don't know what benefit it will be to the Quebecois... aren't they rather landlocked?

I see it as muzzling them by giving it to them in name and then going on, business as usual.

Landlocked? Quebec is surrounded by the Atlantic on the north and the St. Lawrence Seaway in the south. (They would have to share the St. Lawrence Seaway with Canada and the US.)

And this is just a statement that recognizes the Quebecois as a 'people'; not just french Canadians. We already recognize First Nations, Inuit and Metis as separate 'nations'.

Tensions increase within Canada.
Here in America? Squat! :)


Illegal aliens, anyone? :D

Certainly. You are more than welcome.

But doesnt your statement imply that you are a soft separatist?

I support a united Canada. But if Alberta was to seperate, I'd rather be on Alberta's side.

The relationship here, if I'm right is essntianly making Qubec's relationship to Canada like Scotlands relationship to the UK?

Quebec has had its own legislature, as do all the provinces, since before Confederation. All this does is define the Quebecois as an ethnic unit, with a particular history that differentiates it as a founding, but distinct part of Canadian culture and history.

I support a united Canada. But if Alberta was to seperate, I'd rather be on Alberta's side.

We have no ports, we couldn't seperate; we'd be fucked. Oil'll dry up eventually and our industries (important ones) are based on that. For a while we'd be better off but it wouldn't last long. And then I'd have trouble with universities and what not.

We have no ports, we couldn't seperate; we'd be fucked. Oil'll dry up eventually and our industries (important ones) are based on that. For a while we'd be better off but it wouldn't last long. And then I'd have trouble with universities and what not.

Alberta could join Quebec?

Alberta could join Quebec?

Transportation would become a major problem. Plus they both whine too much to get along. And Alberta is too conservative and Québec....... Alberta would hold Québec down. They couldn't handle us and our constant bitching.

Alberta could join Quebec?

But would it be albec, or queberta?

But would it be albec, or queberta?

Pit of Doom?

Pit of Doom?

no, Alberta + BC would be the pit of doom. One side of the Rockies is commie left, which the other side is fascist conservative.

We have no ports, we couldn't seperate; we'd be fucked. Oil'll dry up eventually and our industries (important ones) are based on that. For a while we'd be better off but it wouldn't last long. And then I'd have trouble with universities and what not.

We'd be awesome. There is a lot more than oil here. About the only major resource never discovered in Alberta is gold. There has never been a large strike.

Dont you know we have diamonds as well?

Alberta is starting to diversify. We need more manufacturing, but its coming.

Meh. No worries. Give it a few years and Quebec will surrender.

We'd be awesome. There is a lot more than oil here. About the only major resource never discovered in Alberta is gold. There has never been a large strike.

Dont you know we have diamonds as well?

Alberta is starting to diversify. We need more manufacturing, but its coming.

Oh we'd own for a while maybe a couple decades but then we'd be fucked oil profits won't last and they're what's holding us up now. We'd be okay for a while with other industries but when we go into recession we'd be better off having the rest of Canada to ease our fall. And as I said before transportation would be pricey as we're slightly landlocked, just incase you haven't noticed.

Personally I think an independant quebec would be awesome fun. But as I've said before, I doubt President Clinton will let it happen.

no, Alberta + BC would be the pit of doom. One side of the Rockies is commie left, which the other side is fascist conservative.

The United Citizens Worshiping Under Your Mom? Tucwuym for short?

We have no ports, we couldn't seperate; we'd be fucked. Oil'll dry up eventually and our industries (important ones) are based on that. For a while we'd be better off but it wouldn't last long. And then I'd have trouble with universities and what not.

I'm quite certain the power of the almighty dollar would prevail, and any new nation-states in North America would be offered membership in NAFTA.

we're slightly landlocked, just incase you haven't noticed.

Switzerland is also slightly landlocked, and they do well enough.

no, Alberta + BC would be the pit of doom. One side of the Rockies is commie left, which the other side is fascist conservative.

And right down the middle is some damn fine skiing!


Ladamesansmerci makes a good point indirectly though. A good mix of Left and right would be beneficial. Thats hard for a conservative(voter) like me to admit, but I am more of a libertarian by nature.

Not too sure what he meant by Fascism though. Maybe just a joke.

One thing thats interesting. We Albertans tend to elect the same Party for decades, while BC has never had a premier that hasnt been investigated for some sort of shady deal. (and thats not an exageration!)

It reminds me to reconsider allowing dual languages to be used exclusively in different sections in a single country.

Toronto should become a state, less provincial downloading. YAY! :p

.. so wait...

And right down the middle is some damn fine skiing!


Ladamesansmerci makes a good point indirectly though. A good mix of Left and right would be beneficial. Thats hard for a conservative(voter) like me to admit, but I am more of a libertarian by nature.

Not too sure what he meant by Fascism though. Maybe just a joke.

One thing thats interesting. We Albertans tend to elect the same Party for decades, while BC has never had a premier that hasnt been investigated for some sort of shady deal. (and thats not an exageration!)
The fascist comment was a joke. We're not exactly commie in BC either.

Yeah, our premiere situation is quite sad, actually. Is it so hard to find someone who's not a sleazy bastard to become the premiere? :headbang:

At least our premiere doesn't throw books at pages in the House of Commons.

Good for them! They are so different from the rest of Canada that their secession is probably for the best. Hopefully, everyone is happier. =)

the didnt secede. they are just expressing a greater degree of sovereignty. they're still part of canada, they'll just act more like a state did in the early days of america. kinda like a confederacy.

Oh we'd own for a while maybe a couple decades but then we'd be fucked oil profits won't last and they're what's holding us up now. We'd be okay for a while with other industries but when we go into recession we'd be better off having the rest of Canada to ease our fall. And as I said before transportation would be pricey as we're slightly landlocked, just incase you haven't noticed.

Why would pricing for transportation(which is paid by the reciever, as part of purchase price) rise? Most of our staples are raised here, and anything we cannot raise here is imported already anyway. There is no free trade among provinces. NAFTA would be a blessing.

Alberta has not recieved Equalization payments since the 1960s. In that time, we have fell into several severe recessions, and never been bailed out by the rest of Canada. It is somewhat understandable. Only Ontario would have been able to, as it is the only province to gave never qualified.

The oil patch died several times since then, and we held our own, even came back stronger than ever.

There is far less bluff in Albertas words than Quebecs. We will survive the demise of oil and we know it.

*sigh* You seperatists. At least take BC with you if you're going to go, okay?

Taht's the plan! *points at Location*

This is stupid.

And right down the middle is some damn fine skiing!


Ladamesansmerci makes a good point indirectly though. A good mix of Left and right would be beneficial. Thats hard for a conservative(voter) like me to admit, but I am more of a libertarian by nature.

Not too sure what he meant by Fascism though. Maybe just a joke.

One thing thats interesting. We Albertans tend to elect the same Party for decades, while BC has never had a premier that hasnt been investigated for some sort of shady deal. (and thats not an exageration!)
It is an unwritten law. If the premier doesn't scratch his own back, the rest of the legislature can take him out back and shoot him.

Also, only one party(the NDP) has recovered from a drop from majority to less than ten seats. Every other party goes unrepresented after an election or two.

It is an unwritten law. If the premier doesn't scratch his own back, the rest of the legislature can take him out back and shoot him.


And if he does, the electorate will!


Also, only one party(the NDP) has recovered from a drop from majority to less than ten seats. Every other party goes unrepresented after an election or two.

So not disimilar to Alberta shunning Old parties. Truly a Western thing then.

Ironically, I was just discussing Quebec with some one today. I claimed Quebec would declare war on Canada and become a commonwealth of France.France has it's own problems,last thing they need are another group of malcontents with an exagerated[sic] sense of their own importance,besides don't they want to be their own nation,not a protectorate or a colony by any other name?

I'm a bit confused. :confused: Some say Quebec is their own Nation and others say they didn't segregrate. What are the facts? Is or isn't Quebec their own soveriegn nation? Are they officially seperated or is just words to appease Quebec?

I'm a bit confused. :confused: Some say Quebec is their own Nation and others say they didn't segregrate. What are the facts? Is or isn't Quebec their own soveriegn nation? Are they officially seperated or is just words to appease Quebec?

It's just words to appease them. Quebecois wouldn't actually want to separate anyway. The Stanley Cup is kept in Toronto, and as they couldn't keep a team called "Les Canadiens" in a country that apparantly didn't like being in Canada, they'd never see the Cup again. It's bad enough that they want their whole team shot when they don't win it every year, but imagine how mad they'd be if the Leafs had a slightly better chance at it every year?

To be honest, Canada should just ditch 'em. They're not doing anything good for Canada and French Canadians 'n' Canadian Canadians don't exactly seem to love each other.

Quebec is still a Province. What they want is called "Sovereign Association"... Meaning, they become a seperate Country... but Canada will be required to continue footing their bills...

Wake me up when Ottawa is a smouldering crater.