NationStates Jolt Archive

To counter the flood of religious posts, here an alternative to discuss:

Let's say, a new paradigm (for this discussion called Ikarism) in politics is invented, one which absolutely meets your most important aims, but has a totally different philosophical background*. Most important, it has a view on human behavior, that is in contrast of what you believe. Would you be interested in this paradigm? If an small (but not Andorra-sized) nation (for this discussion called Hequipia) would implement successfully, would you consider changing your stance?

*For communists: reaches total equality with private enterprise, for libertarians, gives more rights despite having a big government, for christians, making moral politics while not basing it on the Bible,... You get my idea.

I should add that despite the same name, it is a different one for everyone, whose priorities differ.

I started this thread because of my thoughts about method vs ideals.

It would be interesting to see how one could clean up the environment by polluting it ;)

i'm more infavour of achieving results than an ideal so probably wouldnt have a much of a problem.

It would be interesting to see how one could clean up the environment by polluting it ;)

well, maybe your Ikarism would imply removing all regulations on pollution and instead use chaos theory to achieve a better state. ;) At least, it would have proposals in it, which would shock every green.

Decreasing crime by getting rid of laws would work fairly simply. :p

Decreasing crime by getting rid of laws would work fairly simply. :p
And now decrease the crime by former standards by removing laws and this would be one Ikarism.

And now decrease the crime by former standards by removing laws and this would be one Ikarism.

Yeah, but that would never work. Crime was rampant in prehistoric times, you know.

getting rid of unemployment via socialism. now that would amaze me. another thread i tried bring that upi but i forgot which one it was.

Yeah, but that would never work. Crime was rampant in prehistoric times, you know.
It does not mean getting rid of certain laws is the only measure, but if they would for example succeed in creating a moral basis, in which people voluntarily give up crime and behave within morals, that would be an idea.

As a registered Libertarian, I'd have to say "No!". Greater personal freedom and increased civil rights/liberties sounds great but, without a significant decrease in 'big government', hypocrisy and dishonesty will still run amuck! Corporations and power whores will still own the country and it would only be a matter of a time before corruption resurfaced! Eventually, over time, it would all return to the same ol' situation; the government violating rights and policing personal life!

If we let everyone pick their own wage.. how would that pan out?

Would total wages go down with more wage availability?

I could quote Accelerando or Hadisveja about the relative value of money here, but I won't :)

It is not about details of different Ikarisms but about versatility.

If we let everyone pick their own wage.. how would that pan out?

well the mass inflation would cause the people to earn pretty much the same unless they want to be paid in gold or food

And the homeless keeping warm and well-fed through the cutting of welfare those extreme capitalists were right all along! (though the homeless could be all dead or toiling in the garbage mines)

all hail the Ikarism revolution!

If private enterprise could bring about total equality, then of course i'd support it. However, I see it as an impossibility.

If private enterprise could bring about total equality, then of course i'd support it. However, I see it as an impossibility.

Well, I wondered.... I expect that if you see Hequipia and it fails to comply to your views of a capitalist state, you might start seeing problems which do not exist, or just play the cultural card: If it works for the Hequipians, it does not mean, it works for us.

getting rid of unemployment via socialism. now that would amaze me. another thread i tried bring that upi but i forgot which one it was.
Getting rid of unemployment actually is a socialist goal and was implemented in many former Eastern Bloc countries, even though most of the jobs were of poor quality.

Getting rid of unemployment actually is a socialist goal and was implemented in many former Eastern Bloc countries, even though most of the jobs were of poor quality.

I think Gorias is quite aware of this. :p

Interesting reactions so far...

I guess my reaction tbh would instinctively be to use additional parameters to rate it in... no, I am not always as rational as I want to be :(

It'd would be fun watching everyone F*** it up....