NationStates Jolt Archive

No, this didn't happen in some shitty little Pakistani madrassa, in a North Carolina public school. The miserable scumbag teacher assigned his students an extra credit puzzle that contained phrases like "Destroy America".

I'm all for free speech, but the taxpayers should certainly not have to pay for their children to be taught to hate their own nation. I'm glad this fucker got fired and I hope concerned citizens exercise their own rights and picket outside of his home.

http://www.wftv.com/education/10381273/detail.html

No, this didn't happen in some shitty little Pakistani madrassa, in a North Carolina public school. The miserable scumbag teacher assigned his students an extra credit puzzle that contained phrases like "Destroy America".

I'm all for free speech, but the taxpayers should certainly not have to pay for their children to be taught to hate their own nation. I'm glad this fucker got fired and I hope concerned citizens exercise their own rights and picket outside of his home.

http://www.wftv.com/education/10381273/detail.html

If the children of your nation can be subverted by having to find the word 'terrorist' in a wordsearch then I'm pretty sure you're screwed anyway.

Must. Kill. America. Must...Eat...Constitution... DiE iNfIdElS!!!!!

Well give him a break, his country men are being killed, if some iranense kill ur countrymen you would hate iran. but of course putting it in homework is extreme

If the children of your nation can be subverted by having to find the word 'terrorist' in a wordsearch then I'm pretty sure you're screwed anyway.

Well said.

Well give him a break, his country men are being killed, if some iranense kill ur countrymen you would hate iran. but of course putting it in homework is extreme

If he hates us so much why doesn't he blow himself up or leave?

If he hates us so much why doesn't he blow himself up or leave?

Because not everyone who hates America is a suicide bomber.

Must. Kill. America. Must...Eat...Constitution... DiE iNfIdElS!!!!!

Must... Crush... Capitalism...



http://content.ytmnd.com/content/4/0/f/40fa37586ae538518111f548a6c7b166.gif

Because not everyone who hates America is a suicide bomber.

That's why there is an option to leave. If you hate America so much, why hang around?

That's why there is an option to leave. If you hate America so much, why hang around?

To try and change it from within perhaps? That kind of is the whole point of a democratic system ;)

That's why there is an option to leave. If you hate America so much, why hang around?

I hate school, but its something I have to deal with if I want a better life.

To try and change it from within perhaps? That kind of is the whole point of a democratic system ;)

You change a nation for the better because you love it and want to improve it. Someone who starts out hating America will not make positive changes.

To try and change it from within perhaps? That kind of is the whole point of a democratic system ;)

That's communist! Change...pfftt. :p

You change a nation for the better because you love it and want to improve it. Someone who starts out hating America will not make positive changes.

Positive by whos standard? They may not be to your liking but again, that is democracy.

I love the way Americans in general trumpet the idea of democracy and even invade other countries to install it but when confronted by a view point they don't like they stamp it out as quickly as possible.

Positive by whos standard? They may not be to your liking but again, that is democracy.

I love the way Americans in general trumpet the idea of democracy and even invade other countries to install it but when confronted by a view point they don't like they stamp it out as quickly as possible.

We're not strictly a democracy. We have a constitution that limits the power of the majority over minorities. Pure democracy is one of the worst forms of government ever. If we had pure democracy in the US we'd have a state religion (christianity), probably homosexuality would be a crime, evolution wouldn't be taught, and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

We're not strictly a democracy. We have a constitution that limits the power of the majority over minorities. Pure democracy is one of the worst forms of government ever. If we had pure democracy in the US we'd have a state religion (christianity), probably homosexuality would be a crime, evolution wouldn't be taught, and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

Who mentioned anything about extreme changes? You basically said this guy should love America or get out, I contended that perhaps he was staying to try and change America from within. That can easily be done within the framework laid down by the constitution.

We're not strictly a democracy. We have a constitution that limits the power of the majority over minorities. Pure democracy is one of the worst forms of government ever. If we had pure democracy in the US we'd have a state religion (christianity), probably homosexuality would be a crime, evolution wouldn't be taught, and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

And is any of that a bad thing? :p
ok. Ill stop spamming

blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

there are probably more blacks than whites in the us.

Who mentioned anything about extreme changes? You basically said this guy should love America or get out, I contended that perhaps he was staying to try and change America from within. That can easily be done within the framework laid down by the constitution.

I didn't say he should be forced out, but I do think personally that if you hate the country you live in you should move. I also said that I don't think someone who hates a nation can make positive changes. First of all, he's going to be in the minority, so he has no power to change things democratically. Secondly, his ability to change things is regulated by our constitution. His ability to change anything is very limited. A person who hates America is likely to want to make radical changes. He'd just be frustrated and grow angrier and more bitter.

probably homosexuality would be a crime
Does the majority believe that homosexuality should be a crime? I'd say they don't, it's just a vocal minority.

there are probably more blacks than whites in the us.

12.1% of the population

hatred of America

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Does the majority believe that homosexuality should be a crime? I'd say they don't, it's just a vocal minority.

The majority says that now, after years, no, decades of homosexuals fighting for their rights and daring to be vocal and visible. In the past being gay was considered a disease and there were laws against sodomy. If we were a direct democracy I'm sure that people's minds wouldn't have been changed. Any gay that spoke out would be arrested and maybe locked up in a mental insitution.

I didn't say he should be forced out, but I do think personally that if you hate the country you live in you should move.

What if you hate the other countries even more?

What if you hate the other countries even more?

Then you've got a bit of a problem.

Then you've got a bit of a problem.

I think this guy already has a bit of a problem. :p

Plus, he could be a tad more constructive. How? The puzzle could include phrases like "Israeli attacks are wrong", "Bush is a murderer" and so on and so forth without going in nutcase territory and calling for the same destruction he CLAIMS to stand against.

Ah I think he was just upset.

Why is it so many school teachers seem to be a tad unstable?

Shouldn't we start screening for this?

We're not strictly a democracy. We have a constitution that limits the power of the majority over minorities. Pure democracy is one of the worst forms of government ever. If we had pure democracy in the US we'd have a state religion (christianity), probably homosexuality would be a crime, evolution wouldn't be taught, and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

Mosta that stuff happens anyway dont it? ;)

...and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

You speak as if it this is in only the pass. Have you been to a hicktowns in the South?

There are easier ways to quit a job. Like resigning.

Why is it so many school teachers seem to be a tad unstable?

Shouldn't we start screening for this?

Are you being sarcastic?

Schoolteachers are already screened for criminal and mental health histories, thats more than enough.

You speak as if it this is in only the pass. Have you been to a hicktowns in the South?

I've been to the South, but I tend to go to places like Memphis, St. Louis, Charlotte, and various parts of Florida. I don't go to hick towns. No reason to travel there.

I remember in college I sat in on a Civil Engineering class once (this was the 1970s).

The lecturer was using an example of how to demolish the Capitol building with strategically-placed explosives.

(it was used as an example because it had a few unique structural features)

Now its not approriate to express seditionist sentiments?! What next "Commitee for the monitoring and prosecution of un-American activities"? Allowing only registered Republicans to become education providers, and require an oath of loyalty/fealty?

Why is it so many school teachers seem to be a tad unstable?

Shouldn't we start screening for this?

Yea, but we're at a shortage of teachers right now, so we're willing to hire anyone at this point.

I got an idea, how about either lowering the workload or increasing the income for teachers to attract more teachers?

I remember in college I sat in on a Civil Engineering class once (this was the 1970s).

The lecturer was using an example of how to demolish the Capitol building with strategically-placed explosives.

(it was used as an example because it had a few unique structural features)

Now its not approriate to express seditionist sentiments?! What next "Commitee for the monitoring and prosecution of un-American activities"? Allowing only registered Republicans to become education providers, and require an oath of loyalty/fealty?

It's fine to express opinions, but teachers are paid to teach the school's curriculum, not to convert the students to their political ideology. This guy's firing was perfectly fine. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say he should be arrested or deported or anything.

Are you being sarcastic?

Schoolteachers are already screened for criminal and mental health histories, thats more than enough.

Well it's obviously not working very well is it?

I got an idea, how about either lowering the workload or increasing the income for teachers to attract more teachers?

:eek: You mean we agree on something? :eek:

It's fine to express opinions, but teachers are paid to teach the school's curriculum, not to convert the students to their political ideology. This guy's firing was perfectly fine. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say he should be arrested or deported or anything.

Well, to be fair, I don't think the school had "don't teach crazy stuff" in the rules. :p

To be fairer, I think it's because they thought nobody would be that stupid. :p

And I say crazy stuff because the guy would equally have to be fired if he claimed stuff like "Lynndie England was just doing her job" in school activities.

There are easier ways to quit a job. Like resigning.

This was the teaching equivilant of suicide by mod. How sad.

I wish he'd say why he did it, the curiosity is really really annoying me.

:eek: You mean we agree on something? :eek:

Well that is part of the reason I switched from being a teacher to an archivist.

I used to want to teach History at a High School, until I remembered what high school was like (that and my Student Teaching experience was hell). After a week long Student Teaching experience, (it wasn't the semester one yet) I went to Salary.com and look at how much a high school teacher makes in North Carolina. Let me tell you, it's not enough money. You basically have to work all the time, in school and out of school, you have to put up with bratty kids who doesn't really give a damn what you have to say (they only come until they graduate) and all you get is $36,000 every year. Nooo thanks.

What really got me out of the teaching programs was the fact that I have a speech problem, so the education department at my school didn't think I would make a good teacher. So now I am finishing up a history major (thank god my minor was in History) and I am loving it. I hope to get a dual masters in the future, and get an archiving job with something that is higher than $36,000. Last I check Archivist can make anywhere between $28,900 and $46,480. Since I will have a bacholars, and two masters, I should be close to $36,000 to $42,000. The best part is, not as much work is involved, and I can avoid people! :D

Why is it so many school teachers seem to be a tad unstable?

Shouldn't we start screening for this?

It wouldn't do much. The unstability might (read: does) come from the long hours, low pay, low respect, unruly students, even more unruly parents, et. al.


Maybe it is time to make teaching a full profession (on the lines of medicine or law) and increase pay, etc.

It wouldn't do much. The unstability might (read: does) come from the long hours, low pay, low respect, unruly students, even more unruly parents, et. al.


Maybe it is time to make teaching a full profession (on the lines of medicine or law) and increase pay, etc.

How would making it a full profession change anything?

Maybe it is time to make teaching a full profession (on the lines of medicine or law) and increase pay, etc.

I think the hours are a skosh longer for lawyers and doctors.

Being a doctor is considerably more stressful too. What with the people dying and such. They pay isn't even all that good, what with the HMOs and student loans either.

And they outsource your job to India, which doesn't happen with teaching.

So no.

How would making it a full profession change anything?increases respect, increases quality, generally, over time, increases pay.

I think the hours are a skosh longer for lawyers and doctors. Doctors and lawyers set their own hours. They see a patient, they get paid. They don't see a patient, they don't.

Being a doctor is considerably more stressful too. What with the people dying and such. They pay isn't even all that good, what with the HMOs and student loans either.Medicine isn't particularly more stressful than teaching. Death isn't exactly the largest part of the job, unless you are working ICU and ER.
Pay is what you charge. Many doctors don't accept medicare and medicaid patients because of the pay issue. However, you cannot deny the fact that doctors are one of the highest income groups in the western world.

And they outsource your job to India, which doesn't happen with teaching.Doctors are not outsourced to India in a way that you lose your job. The way it is outsourced, however, is the exact same way they could easily outsource an education position.

So no.So yes.

Doctors and lawyers set their own hours. They see a patient, they get paid. They don't see a patient, they don't.


I think you'll find that very few do. Many are employees, just like teachers. Those that aren't quite typically have large fixed costs, such as running an office, malpractice insurance and such. Not to mention the hassle of actually getting paid. There isn't any taking weeks long vactions in the summer for most.

Medicine isn't particularly more stressful than teaching. Death isn't exactly the largest part of the job, unless you are working ICU and ER.
Pay is what you charge. Many doctors don't accept medicare and medicaid patients because of the pay issue. However, you cannot deny the fact that doctors are one of the highest income groups in the western world.

It's much more stressful. For a start you actually have to have a minimum level of competence, otherwise the malpractice mokeys come and get you. Also, you're messing with someone's health.

Teachers can be as incompetent as they like. There is no malpractice in education.

Doctors are not outsourced to India in a way that you lose your job. The way it is outsourced, however, is the exact same way they could easily outsource an education position.

Diagnoses are now rountinely outsourced to india. Less work = less jobs. Also, medical tourism is become more common, with HMOs more than happy to pay for it. I don't recall shipping students off to India to learn math. (Though god knows, it's probably a good idea).

So yes.

If it is so horrible, and law and medcine so good, how comes all these teachers aren't quitting to become Doctors and Lawyers?

If it is so horrible, and law and medcine so good, how comes all these teachers aren't quitting to become Doctors and Lawyers?

*holds up hand* Um...that's exactly what I'm doing...I taught for 6 years, now I'm going into Law. However, I doubt I'll ever totally leave Education.

*holds up hand* I left the education department (or they kicked me out, whichever way you want to look at it) to become an archivist. Let face it, it sucks being a teacher.

Teachers can be as incompetent as they like. There is no malpractice in education.

Bull. Teachers can be and are fired for incompetance. As a matter of fact, in many parts of the country, their contracts are not renewed for anything from just cause (incompetance, illegal behaviors) to just 'cause.


If it is so horrible, and law and medcine so good, how comes all these teachers aren't quitting to become Doctors and Lawyers?

Some of us actually do the job because we think that educating the next generation is worthwhile in and of itself... and that includes educating future doctors and lawyers.

North Carolina? So I assume he has been lynched by a crazed mob?


Yeah...I don't have great opinions of places with morals similar to the dark ages.

North Carolina? So I assume he has been lynched by a crazed mob?


Yeah...I don't have great opinions of places with morals similar to the dark ages.

and I don't have great opinions of people who like to stereotype and generalize a large group of people. :upyours:

I think you'll find that very few do. Many are employees, just like teachers. Those that aren't quite typically have large fixed costs, such as running an office, malpractice insurance and such. Not to mention the hassle of actually getting paid. There isn't any taking weeks long vactions in the summer for most. Wrong. The majority of doctors either work for a hospital (in which case, they are employees, but have a high level of freedom), or work for collectives, in which they become part owner of the practice. This one is the most common. Costs are split among the owners, income remains singular. They set their own schedule completely, but only make money when seeing patients.



It's much more stressful. For a start you actually have to have a minimum level of competence, otherwise the malpractice mokeys come and get you. Also, you're messing with someone's health.As opposed to someones future. Now, I'm not going to argue that something like a surgeon is low stress. However, I'm also not about to concede that teaching is "low stress".

Teachers can be as incompetent as they like. There is no malpractice in education. Bullshit. Flat out. There is something called certification.
Incidentally, this is part of the reason I support education becoming a full profession.



Diagnoses are now rountinely outsourced to india. Less work = less jobs. Also, medical tourism is become more common, with HMOs more than happy to pay for it. I don't recall shipping students off to India to learn math. (Though god knows, it's probably a good idea).Generally, what happens is that something like an xray will be shipped out if there is no doctor on site at that moment. That isn't less jobs, there just isn't always a radiologist on call. There are also many jobs that literally cannot be outsourced.
Education can be outsourced easily through the use of online classes.



If it is so horrible, and law and medcine so good, how comes all these teachers aren't quitting to become Doctors and Lawyers?Because, amazingly, some people Choose to be a teacher. What you are asking is why someone chooses to do something with their life. Maybe it is their passion. Maybe everyone doesn't pick a job for the money. Big surprise there, I know.
Hell, being a doctor is better than being a nurse...so why do we still have nurses?

There are easier ways to quit a job. Like resigning.
Yeah. This was more like Death by IRL-Mod. :p

Yeah. This was more like Death by IRL-Mod. :p

I beat you to it :p

and I don't have great opinions of people who like to stereotype and generalize a large group of people. :upyours:

Legaslation-wise, dumbshit.

I don't like people who instantly assume they know what I mean.

Legalslation-wise, their nuts. Totally intolerant of homosexuals, abstinence-only education...

I beat you to it :p
D'oh! Yes, yes you did! Good, good.

Huh. Guess that's bound to happen when I hit reply as soon as I read something... :D

Legaslation-wise, dumbshit.

I don't like people who instantly assume they know what I mean.

Legalslation-wise, their nuts. Totally intolerant of homosexuals, abstinence-only education...

and watch Zarakon try to back-peddle.

Any given sanitation worker is more fit to be a teacher than that pig. He should thank God that he isn't shot for teaching such disgusting and vile trash to our impressionable youth; had he said that in North Korea, he would have been dead before he could have said, "Down with the US!" Such people should be forcibly deported, if not imprisoned and/or tortured. He got off much too easy.

Any given sanitation worker is more fit to be a teacher than that pig. He should thank God that he isn't shot for teaching such disgusting and vile trash to our impressionable youth; had he said that in North Korea, he would have been dead before he could have said, "Down with the US!" Such people should be forcibly deported, if not imprisoned and/or tortured. He got off much too easy.

Why? Because he destroys that precious blind loyalty to God & Country that you so covet as a means of control? Patriotism cannot be measured by blind loyalty. I would consider those who dissent to be among the most patriotic of all.

What he is doing is teaching children to think for themselves! Something that it seems to be very frightning to you.

One more thing: Why the hell do you have a Murray Bookchin quote in your sig? He's a left-wing libertarian socialist, and you seem to be the exact oppossite.

Legaslation-wise, dumbshit.

I don't like people who instantly assume they know what I mean.

Legalslation-wise, their nuts. Totally intolerant of homosexuals, abstinence-only education...

People don't have to assume what you mean if you just say what you mean in the first place, rather than having to be confronted about it, and then backpedal.

Oh, and calling another user a "dumbshit" isn't usually a good idea, particularly when there is a mod in the thread.

Any given sanitation worker is more fit to be a teacher than that pig. He should thank God that he isn't shot for teaching such disgusting and vile trash to our impressionable youth; had he said that in North Korea, he would have been dead before he could have said, "Down with the US!" Such people should be forcibly deported, if not imprisoned and/or tortured. He got off much too easy.

So, let me get this straight. You call him a pig for supporting heinous acts.

So far so good, if you weren't the same person that supported rape as an institutionalized act, which I'm pretty sure would get the teacher rightly fired if he supported in class as well.

And I love how you comment stuff like "how it would be in NK". Shows how high your expectations for your country really are.

He has the right to speak what he wishes to. The school has the right to fire him for including such and such speech in his activities. Nobody has the right to punish him for practicing his right to free speech. Case closed.

Bull. Teachers can be and are fired for incompetance. As a matter of fact, in many parts of the country, their contracts are not renewed for anything from just cause (incompetance, illegal behaviors) to just 'cause.


You can't sue a teacher for malpractice. So it isn't bull. Also, tenured teachers cannot be fired for being rubbish.

In the parts of the country where they are at will employees, they are in a no different boat from everyone else anyway.

Bullshit. Flat out. There is something called certification.
Incidentally, this is part of the reason I support education becoming a full profession.


So what? Just because someone is certified doesn't mean they won't go off and do a crappy job. You can't sue a teacher for malpractice.

Maybe it should be a full profession. Then teachers would be accountable to their clients (pupils) in a court of law when they failed to live up to their obligations.

That's why there is an option to leave. If you hate America so much, why hang around?

If somebody dumps toxic sludge all over your house and then you move into the same apartment bulding as him, would it be that unreasonable for you to complain about the cramped accomodations in the apartment building relative to what you used to enjoy in your house?

Is he within his rights to demand that you return to your toxified house or stop complaining about what you don't like about apartment living?

That's why there is an option to leave. If you hate America so much, why hang around?

In the words of Sinclair Lewis, "I love America, but I don't like it."

Why is it always assumed that someone who critcizes American Imperial policy hates America? I, as a concerned citizen, feel it is my civic duty to criticize anything that I feel threatens the citizenry of the United States. Especially when its the government that is responsible.

So what? Just because someone is certified doesn't mean they won't go off and do a crappy job. You can't sue a teacher for malpractice.

Maybe it should be a full profession. Then teachers would be accountable to their clients (pupils) in a court of law when they failed to live up to their obligations.
being a professional does not mean that they are liable in court. But it does mean increased accountability, which, overall, I think is a good thing.

Oh, and malpractice lawsuits are bullshit, by and large (not associated to your point at all...just airing a greivance;) )

Any given sanitation worker is more fit to be a teacher than that pig. He should thank God that he isn't shot for teaching such disgusting and vile trash to our impressionable youth; had he said that in North Korea, he would have been dead before he could have said, "Down with the US!" Such people should be forcibly deported, if not imprisoned and/or tortured. He got off much too easy.

We have something here called freedom of expression that makes us better than North Korea. He can speak his mind, just not during classes and in his official capacity as a teacher. When he's on the public dime he should stick to the damn curriculum.

If somebody dumps toxic sludge all over your house and then you move into the same apartment bulding as him, would it be that unreasonable for you to complain about the cramped accomodations in the apartment building relative to what you used to enjoy in your house?

Is he within his rights to demand that you return to your toxified house or stop complaining about what you don't like about apartment living?

WTF does toxic houses and apartment buildings have to do with anything? Please make your analogies clearer.

In the words of Sinclair Lewis, "I love America, but I don't like it."

Why is it always assumed that someone who critcizes American Imperial policy hates America? I, as a concerned citizen, feel it is my civic duty to criticize anything that I feel threatens the citizenry of the United States. Especially when its the government that is responsible.

How about the phrase "Destroy America"? Doesn't indicate patriotic dissent to me. It indicates a hatred of the nation and it's values. It's not criticism. It's an indication that the idiot who said it would probably be happier elsewhere.

We're not strictly a democracy. We have a constitution that limits the power of the majority over minorities. Pure democracy is one of the worst forms of government ever. If we had pure democracy in the US we'd have a state religion (christianity), probably homosexuality would be a crime, evolution wouldn't be taught, and blacks would likely still be unable to date whites without being lynched.

I seriously doubt it. Those problems still continue to exist because a minority of powerful and influential people perpetuate their existence. Pure democracy = anarchy, because by defintion everyone would have equal power and rights, and so no one could enforce their will upon another.

How about the phrase "Destroy America"? Doesn't indicate patriotic dissent to me. It indicates a hatred of the nation and it's values. It's not criticism. It's an indication that the idiot who said it would probably be happier elsewhere.

He obviously isn't leaving. He's teaching in public education. You don't survive in public education without liking your job and where you live. One phrase hidden in a wordsearch doesn't prove anything. It is being used as a continuing excuse by reactionaries to quash dissent, and lump critics in with terrorists.

He obviously isn't leaving. He's teaching in public education. You don't survive in public education without liking your job and where you live. One phrase hidden in a wordsearch doesn't prove anything. It is being used as a continuing excuse by reactionaries to quash dissent, and lump critics in with terrorists.

Right. One phrase in a word search proves a lot more than your speculation that "you don't survive in public education without liking your job and where you live". The only thing we know about this guy is that he wants to encourage his students to "destroy America". That's all. Anything else is pure pointless speculation.

He obviously isn't leaving. He's teaching in public education. You don't survive in public education without liking your job and where you live. One phrase hidden in a wordsearch doesn't prove anything. It is being used as a continuing excuse by reactionaries to quash dissent, and lump critics in with terrorists.

Let's see...

Terrorists want to destroy America...

This teacher says, in essence, "Destroy America"...

two plus two is...

My point: this guy isn't just voicing his opinion about the government. There's a not-so-fine line between "free speech" and what he said. Saying "I don't like our government" is free speech, but "DESTROY AMERICA" is something else entirely.

Terrorists want to destroy America...

This teacher says, in essence, "Destroy America"...

two plus two is...


ETA terrorists want a Basque secession.
I want a Basque secession.

Am I a terrorist? No.
Do I approve of ETA's actions? No.

Don't assume that shared viewpoints make two different people or groups the same.

I've been to the South, but I tend to go to places like Memphis, St. Louis, Charlotte, and various parts of Florida. I don't go to hick towns. No reason to travel there.

St. Louis is part of the midwest, not the south.

12.1% of the population


I believe that percent about as much as.. well .. I just don't believe it.

Why? Because he destroys that precious blind loyalty to God & Country that you so covet as a means of control?

You seem to be missing a couple steps in that ladder. There is plenty of grey area between teaching blind loyalty to a country and teaching to destroy the country. This teacher was instilling fiendish, anti-America notions in the youth of our schools. I would expect something like that to take place in Tehran, but in North Carolina? He imbued our children with disgustingly false and vile ideas; he subjected them to his extremist views in insidious and subtle ways. I wouldn't be surprised if he was on a terrorist organization's payroll; maybe that's why he embarked upon this morally abhorrent course of action.

One more thing: Why the hell do you have a Murray Bookchin quote in your sig? He's a left-wing libertarian socialist, and you seem to be the exact oppossite.

While he is, in my opinion, an idiot, that does not necessarily reflect poorly upon what he says. Not all his utterances are devoid of intelligence, although his political ideology resembles that of a three-year-old. Specifically, the quote in my signature rings true to me.

I think the hours are a skosh longer for lawyers and doctors.

Being a doctor is considerably more stressful too. What with the people dying and such. They pay isn't even all that good, what with the HMOs and student loans either.

And they outsource your job to India, which doesn't happen with teaching.

So no.Not necessarily. I have a couple of aunts who are teachers. Their days are no where near over when school lets out. Besides stuff like grading papers and making lesson plans, they are frequently expected to "volunteer."
The teachers are heavily presssured, sometimes to the point of firing threats, to volunteer for all kinds of stuff. If you won't do it, we'll find someone who will. More often, it's like "If you don't do it for free, the kids won't get to do it."
Plan the yearbook, chaperone various extra-curricular activities, some which require overnight out of town trips, oversee the scholastic team.
And Oklahoma has some of the most poorly paid teachers in the US. Both of my aunts teach for very small rural school systems. They work eighty-plus hours a week all the time. For not much more than 30,000 a year.
One of them also teaches summer school, so she doesn't even get that off. At least her kids are grown.

You seem to be missing a couple steps in that ladder. There is plenty of grey area between teaching blind loyalty to a country and teaching to destroy the country.

There's also a similarly large space between putting anti-American words in a school assignment, and teaching to destroy it. How were they taught? Did he give them any means, plans, or anything other than some inflammatory comments?
This teacher was instilling fiendish, anti-America notions in the youth of our schools.

Imagine you're an American student.
When you read the words "Destroy America", do you want to
a) Play on your XBox?
b) Destroy America?
I wouldn't be surprised if he was on a terrorist organization's payroll; maybe that's why he embarked upon this morally abhorrent course of action.

If you were a financier in, let's say, al Qaeda, would you spend money on:
a) A big bomb?
b) Getting a school-teacher to hide "Destroy America" in a puzzle?

Honestly, if you're really worried about terrorists giving messages to the youth of the world, look no further than your very monitor. There are thousands of websites spreading terrorist propaganda, many of whom angle for disaffected youth over committed terrorists.
Want to save the world from terrorists? Ban the internet.
Want to be a reasonable, well-balanced person? Accept that things happen and that not everyone who hates America is a terrorist, dammit!

not everyone who hates America is a terrorist, dammit!

What about those who are so deeply psychotic that they're willing to subject our children to insidious subliminal message, instructing them to "destroy America"? In criminal law, intent is sufficient for a conviction. This could be construed as an act of (attempted) terrorist recruitment.

You speak as if it this is in only the pass. Have you been to a hicktowns in the South?


There are far more blacks in the south than the north. We've been living with them for many years and interracial couples are the norm down here. You gotta head way up north ie Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont to see a real segregation of whites and blacks.
http://www.usapopulationmap.com/race_2000.html Maine 97% white, New Hampshire 95% white, Vermont 96% white. The only state near the south that is even close to those high white percentages is West Virginia and that is not a southern state. As for this map .. considering how dark California, NM and Texas are in 2000 I'm assuming they are actually considering mexicans .. latinos etc as non-white. But usually in statistics especially crime statistics they are lumped in with whites. I know.. you will say "well I didn't say what % of blacks are in the south, but that it's more likely there would be lynchings there from a white dating a black". Wrong. The most hard core racists aren't even in the south, most are central to upper midwest and up north ... and they'd just be disgusted with the white pay no attention to the black. If there was to be this lynching you are speaking from the sight of an interracial couple it wouldn't be the negro swinging from the tree.

In criminal law, intent is sufficient for a conviction. This could be construed as an act of (attempted) terrorist recruitment.

And yet it hasn't been.
Loath as I am to say it, on the subject of terrorism I actually trust the American legal/counter-terrorist authorities more than I trust you.

What about those who are so deeply psychotic that they're willing to subject our children to insidious subliminal message, instructing them to "destroy America"? In criminal law, intent is sufficient for a conviction. This could be construed as an act of (attempted) terrorist recruitment.

Indeed, it could be construed. By you, and you alone.

There's a difference between freedom of speech/opinion, and preaching. This dude was preaching, which he shouldn't be doing.

And yet it hasn't been.
Loath as I am to say it, on the subject of terrorism I actually trust the American legal/counter-terrorist authorities more than I trust you.

I'll assume you make no compliment to the American legal/counter-terrorist authorities when you say that, considering how much Means could actually be trusted to do the job well.

There's a difference between freedom of speech/opinion, and preaching. This dude was preaching, which he shouldn't be doing.

Which is why he - deservedly - got fired. But there's a bigger difference between preaching/inflamatory speech and "let's round him up and torture this terrorist!!1!!!11ONE!!1!".

and watch Zarakon try to back-peddle.

I'm not back-peddling, I'm clarifying. I apologize for the insult, but I tend to take the :upyours: at it's face meaning of "FUCK YOU!!!111One", so an insult combined with a clarifications now equals a backpeddle. You may have an excellent career a head of you as a right-wing radio host, especially if you LIKE NC.