NationStates Jolt Archive

America vs. Places that legalize prostitution..

Who has more rape cases?

Because I was thinking, if prostitution was legal, there would be less rapes.

Or am I wrong?

I was under the impression that the vast majority of rapes had less to do with sexual desire and more to do with a desire to control completely. It seems unlikely that legalizing prostitution would change that much.

There might be less rape of prostitutes, since they would, theoretically, be better regulated.

Hey! Ruffy! Leave those girls alone!

Nah. We're better off using police state measures to combat rapists.

Or if rape was legal, there would be less prostitution.;)

rape still would be around because those who have no money to pay may end up doing it

Here's some numbers for you, make what you will of them;

Nevada (Legal prostitution in all counties except Washoe, Clark, and Carson City)
2005 Population: 2,414,807
Forced rapes for 2005: 1,016

Utah
2005 Population: 2,469,585
Forced rapes for 2005: 920

Utah is special. They don't count.

There are more things to consider.

Those poor girls are exploited, no matter what they tell you. by legalizing it, the state gives a "Kosher" stamp for the exploitation.

Second, according to this line of argument you can also legalize shoplifting, because then there would be less burglaries... Prostitution is bad, legalizing it would give girls the wrong incentives: instead of working hard and building a career, the weak and the poor would choose the "easy" way that would lead to their destruction.

Also, even if it would lower the rape rate (though I totally don't agree) - it would bring difficult class issues. only poor girls will turn this way, and rich girls would be raped less. So again, the poor would be exploited to benefit the rich... This is wrong.

Utah is special. They don't count.
Well I was trying for a the same population size, density, location, and (somewhat) culture.

Area Year Population Forcible rape Rate per 100,000


United States Total 2005 296,410,404 93,934 31.7
New Jersey 2005 8,717,925 1,208 13.9
West Virginia 2005 1,816,856 321 17.7
New York 2005 19,254,630 3,636 18.9
Connecticut 2005 3,510,297 702 20.0
Wisconsin 2005 5,536,201 1,142 20.6
Maryland 2005 5,600,388 1,266 22.6
Virginia 2005 7,567,465 1,721 22.7
Vermont 2005 623,050 145 23.3
Georgia 2005 9,072,576 2,143 23.6
Wyoming 2005 509,294 122 24.0
North Dakota 2005 636,677 154 24.2
Maine 2005 1,321,505 326 24.7
California 2005 36,132,147 9,392 26.0
North Carolina 2005 8,683,242 2,302 26.5
Hawaii 2005 1,275,194 343 26.9
Massachusetts 2005 6,398,743 1,732 27.1
Iowa 2005 2,966,334 827 27.9
Missouri 2005 5,800,310 1,625 28.0
Pennsylvania 2005 12,429,616 3,586 28.9
Indiana 2005 6,271,973 1,856 29.6
Rhode Island 2005 1,076,189 321 29.8
District of Columbia 2005 550,521 166 30.2
New Hampshire 2005 1,309,940 405 30.9
Louisiana 2005 4,523,628 1,421 31.4
Montana 2005 935,670 301 32.2
Nebraska 2005 1,758,787 579 32.9
Illinois 2005 12,763,371 4,297 33.7
Arizona 2005 5,939,292 2,006 33.8
Kentucky 2005 4,173,405 1,421 34.0
Alabama 2005 4,557,808 1,564 34.3
Oregon 2005 3,641,056 1,266 34.8
Tennessee 2005 5,962,959 2,171 36.4
Florida 2005 17,789,864 6,592 37.1
Texas 2005 22,859,968 8,511 37.2
Utah 2005 2,469,585 920 37.3
Kansas 2005 2,744,687 1,055 38.4
Mississippi 2005 2,921,088 1,147 39.3
Ohio 2005 11,464,042 4,557 39.8
Idaho 2005 1,429,096 577 40.4
Oklahoma 2005 3,547,884 1,481 41.7
Nevada 2005 2,414,807 1,016 42.1
South Carolina 2005 4,255,083 1,809 42.5
Arkansas 2005 2,779,154 1,193 42.9
Colorado 2005 4,665,177 2,026 43.4
Minnesota 2005 5,132,799 2,258 44.0
Delaware 2005 843,524 377 44.7
Washington 2005 6,287,759 2,811 44.7
South Dakota 2005 775,933 362 46.7
Michigan 2005 10,120,860 5,193 51.3
New Mexico 2005 1,928,384 1,044 54.1
Alaska 2005 663,661 538 81.1


How'z that?

That'll do, NERVUN.

No, legalising prostitution has no effect on rape ratio. Neither keeping it illegal.

Btw: how can you make prostitution illegal and enforce that? If I and a woman eat at a restaurant and I pay for both, then we end up having sex, is that prostitution? One could argue that I paid her for sex. A ban on prostitution is very unlikely to work. And if a law cannot possibily be enforced, well, it is better to drop it.
Here in Italy we struck a kind of balance: prostitution is legal, but exploiting the prostitution is not - that is, no-one can give a job as prostitute to someone else. If a person wants to prostitute, its a personal choice - but no-one is allowed to force that choice.

There are more things to consider.

Those poor girls are exploited, no matter what they tell you. by legalizing it, the state gives a "Kosher" stamp for the exploitation.

Second, according to this line of argument you can also legalize shoplifting, because then there would be less burglaries... Prostitution is bad, legalizing it would give girls the wrong incentives: instead of working hard and building a career, the weak and the poor would choose the "easy" way that would lead to their destruction.

Also, even if it would lower the rape rate (though I totally don't agree) - it would bring difficult class issues. only poor girls will turn this way, and rich girls would be raped less. So again, the poor would be exploited to benefit the rich... This is wrong.

Who says women are exploited if they are prostitutes? If they want to be one they can do what they want. Why do you think prostitution is bad?

Who says women are exploited if they are prostitutes? If they want to be one they can do what they want. Why do you think prostitution is bad?

Would you want your daughter to become one? if you answer "yes" - then I have no argument with you. Hell, I don't even want to discuss it then.

But if the answer is "no", then ...erm... won't you say your questions are a bit hypocritical ?

Well I was trying for a the same population size, density, location, and (somewhat) culture.

Area Year Population1 Forcible rape
Number Rate per 100,000

United States Total 2005 296,410,404 93,934 31.7
New Jersey 2005 8,717,925 1,208 13.9
West Virginia 2005 1,816,856 321 17.7
New York 2005 19,254,630 3,636 18.9
Connecticut 2005 3,510,297 702 20.0
Wisconsin 2005 5,536,201 1,142 20.6
Maryland 2005 5,600,388 1,266 22.6
Virginia 2005 7,567,465 1,721 22.7
Vermont 2005 623,050 145 23.3
Georgia 2005 9,072,576 2,143 23.6
Wyoming 2005 509,294 122 24.0
North Dakota 2005 636,677 154 24.2
Maine 2005 1,321,505 326 24.7
California 2005 36,132,147 9,392 26.0
North Carolina 2005 8,683,242 2,302 26.5
Hawaii 2005 1,275,194 343 26.9
Massachusetts 2005 6,398,743 1,732 27.1
Iowa 2005 2,966,334 827 27.9
Missouri 2005 5,800,310 1,625 28.0
Pennsylvania 2005 12,429,616 3,586 28.9
Indiana 2005 6,271,973 1,856 29.6
Rhode Island 2005 1,076,189 321 29.8
District of Columbia 2005 550,521 166 30.2
New Hampshire 2005 1,309,940 405 30.9
Louisiana 2005 4,523,628 1,421 31.4
Montana 2005 935,670 301 32.2
Nebraska 2005 1,758,787 579 32.9
Illinois 2005 12,763,371 4,297 33.7
Arizona 2005 5,939,292 2,006 33.8
Kentucky 2005 4,173,405 1,421 34.0
Alabama 2005 4,557,808 1,564 34.3
Oregon 2005 3,641,056 1,266 34.8
Tennessee 2005 5,962,959 2,171 36.4
Florida 2005 17,789,864 6,592 37.1
Texas 2005 22,859,968 8,511 37.2
Utah 2005 2,469,585 920 37.3
Kansas 2005 2,744,687 1,055 38.4
Mississippi 2005 2,921,088 1,147 39.3
Ohio 2005 11,464,042 4,557 39.8
Idaho 2005 1,429,096 577 40.4
Oklahoma 2005 3,547,884 1,481 41.7
Nevada 2005 2,414,807 1,016 42.1
South Carolina 2005 4,255,083 1,809 42.5
Arkansas 2005 2,779,154 1,193 42.9
Colorado 2005 4,665,177 2,026 43.4
Minnesota 2005 5,132,799 2,258 44.0
Delaware 2005 843,524 377 44.7
Washington 2005 6,287,759 2,811 44.7
South Dakota 2005 775,933 362 46.7
Michigan 2005 10,120,860 5,193 51.3
New Mexico 2005 1,928,384 1,044 54.1
Alaska 2005 663,661 538 81.1

How'z that?
Nice work NERVUN, your coding could be better but you get the point across.

Per Capita is a better way to tell these things than total rapes.
America with 300,000,000 people should have more cases of rape than Australia with 20,000,000...

Would you want your daughter to become one? if you answer "yes" - then I have no argument with you. Hell, I don't even want to discuss it then.

But if the answer is "no", then ...erm... won't you say your questions are a bit hypocritical ?

Most fathers wouldn't want to think about their daughters having sex before marriage, so does that mean we should ban pre-marital sex?

Would you want your daughter to become one? if you answer "yes" - then I have no argument with you. Hell, I don't even want to discuss it then.

But if the answer is "no", then ...erm... won't you say your questions are a bit hypocritical ?

There's lots of jobs that I would not want my (future) kids doing - that does not mean the jobs are exploitation...

Back on topic - Rape has little to do with sex and a lot to do with power. It is about someone dehumanising another person and getting off on the power of controling another persons body.

i think the idea of selling your body for sex is disgusting. but its no different to some marraiges. the problem with prostitution is disease control. i'm really afraid of aids.

i think the idea of selling your body for sex is disgusting. but its no different to some marraiges. the problem with prostitution is disease control. i'm really afraid of aids.

If prostitution was legalised it could be legislated and controlled, making condoms and regular checks for STDs a legal requirement.

If prostitution was legalised it could be legislated and controlled, making condoms and regular checks for STDs a legal requirement.

that would be fine if they could do quick blood tests on consumers before they purchase. prositutes every two days.

Well I was trying for a the same population size, density, location, and (somewhat) culture.

<snip>

How'z that?

Screenscraper. Nice. :)

Screenscraper. Nice. :)
Alas, the problems of attempting to go from a data series formated one way in Excel to a posting on a forum that doesn't like tables too much.

But now that I'm done with dinner and Spidy, I'll go clean up.

Would you want your daughter to become one? if you answer "yes" - then I have no argument with you. Hell, I don't even want to discuss it then.

But if the answer is "no", then ...erm... won't you say your questions are a bit hypocritical ?

If that's her prefered career choice, I would accept that. Her body, her choice. And who knows, maybe she'll get famous? I'd tell her to stay off drugs and that if anyone ever abuses her I'll stab the motherfucker.

the availability of sex has nothing to do with rape. those needs can always be satisfied all by yourself.

there might be some relationship between prostitution, the attitude toward women and rape. IF legalized prostitution gives weak-minded men the notion that all women are whores at heart and thus dont deserve the protection of society against rape, it could lead to MORE rape rather than less.

Would you want your daughter to become one? if you answer "yes" - then I have no argument with you. Hell, I don't even want to discuss it then.

But if the answer is "no", then ...erm... won't you say your questions are a bit hypocritical ?

Like I haven't heard that argument before. :rolleyes:

I'll tell you this. If thats her choice then who the fuck am I to tell her what she can and can't do?

how can you make prostitution illegal and enforce that? If I and a woman eat at a restaurant and I pay for both, then we end up having sex, is that prostitution? One could argue that I paid her for sex.

I've been saying that for years. These are the differences between dating and prostitution: One activity is more socially acceptable than the other, one activity is more honest about its intentions than the other, and one activity is more certain of realizing those intentions than the other.

You are correct. Same with porn.

Also, I like to think of prostitution as chlorine in the gene pool: Stupid people get STDs and die.

That might sound callous.

Here's some numbers for you, make what you will of them;

Nevada (Legal prostitution in all counties except Washoe, Clark, and Carson City)
2005 Population: 2,414,807
Forced rapes for 2005: 1,016

Utah
2005 Population: 2,469,585
Forced rapes for 2005: 920

That's going to be highly misleading because Utah has no place like Clark County: a tourist destination that has a daily influx of 300,000 new people in and out of town, many of which are on the prowl for sex and are hopped up on ideas of wanton anarchy. Put simply, comparing a state with Las Vegas with a state with Provo is a bit of an apples-to-baseballs comparison.

To be honest, I would expect that legalizing prostitution has little or no influence on the rate of rape: rape has little to do with sex, and most of the men who would engage in rape would be chucked out of a brothel for engaging in their power fantasies. What it does do, however, is vastly improve the life of prostitutes themselves: brothels allow prostitutes to keep far more of their earnings, they prevent beatings by pimps and johns, they protect against STD transmission, they keep out drugs and social problems, and they prohibit the sex trade in minors. That alone is a hell of a social bonus over what most prostitutes in the U.S. face, which to me is a powerful incentive to engage in legalization. Like marijuana, I don't make use of prostitutes, but I do think there is good reason to make it legal.

That's going to be highly misleading because Utah has no place like Clark County: a tourist destination that has a daily influx of 300,000 new people in and out of town, many of which are on the prowl for sex and are hopped up on ideas of wanton anarchy. Put simply, comparing a state with Las Vegas with a state with Provo is a bit of an apples-to-baseballs comparison.
How so? Granted Vegas is Vegas, but the cow counties are similar in culture AND Nevada has a high concentration of Mormons (IIRC, the highest outside of Utah). If anything, I find it ironic that of the two states, both similar in population size, setting, but one with, as you put it, Las Vegas, and one under the control of the LDS, Nevada only posted 100 more rapes and the two are very close in their rates.

You are correct. Same with porn.

Also, I like to think of prostitution as chlorine in the gene pool: Stupid people get STDs and die.

That might sound callous.

More like some very brutal men and some women in immense poverty and some very lonely desperate men who get STDs and die.

If prostitution was legalised it could be legislated and controlled, making condoms and regular checks for STDs a legal requirement.

Yeah fine and dandy, but inpractical. So we check people for STD's, who will we be checking, the streetwalkers only, not Joe Schmoe who's having a night out on the town. And so someone is diagnoused with an STD, but what's going to stop them from continuing? They're making good cash. Say you decide to make a registry for the ladies (maybe men) of the night, and the people that so chose to check into a cheap motel big deal, not going to do anything. Because what are they going to do? Seek out more customers that are or are not on the list, they're making good money from doing it, they aren't just going to stick with a few people. There's no means to justify legalization, unless you want to truly exploit women and take their prophets.

As for rape, they really don't have anything to do with each other unless it becomes a case of rape. Legalizing wouldn't really have any true effect on how rape occures.

How so? Granted Vegas is Vegas, but the cow counties are similar in culture AND Nevada has a high concentration of Mormons (IIRC, the highest outside of Utah). If anything, I find it ironic that of the two states, both similar in population size, setting, but one with, as you put it, Las Vegas, and one under the control of the LDS, Nevada only posted 100 more rapes and the two are very close in their rates.

I wasn't quite looking at it like that, so you may well have a point, but it should be noted that before we jump to conclusions, that Nevada rate might well be artificially low. As I understand it, the report of rape is measured on the basis of where it's reported, not necessarily where it happens. For a place like Provo, these two things are usually one and the same; for Las Vegas, however, a lot of rapes might end up being reported in Pokono, if at all (keep in mind that the "What Happens Here Stays Here" motto might well only amplify feelings of guilt about rapes in women, as they might well think they brought it upon themselves). There's also the general fact that Las Vegas has been going through an aberrantly low-crime period for the last few years now; once things swing back toward the mean, I suspect that the rate of rapes would grow significantly.

I was under the impression that the vast majority of rapes had less to do with sexual desire and more to do with a desire to control completely. It seems unlikely that legalizing prostitution would change that much.

There might be less rape of prostitutes, since they would, theoretically, be better regulated.

I think that's a myth. Some men take what they want by force. Could be cash, could be goods. Men want sex. It would be shocking if some men didn't take sex by force. The idea that rape comes only out of a desire to control is kind of dumb.

Well I was trying for a the same population size, density, location, and (somewhat) culture.

Area Year Population Forcible rape Rate per 100,000


United States Total 2005 296,410,404 93,934 31.7
New Jersey 2005 8,717,925 1,208 13.9
West Virginia 2005 1,816,856 321 17.7
New York 2005 19,254,630 3,636 18.9
Connecticut 2005 3,510,297 702 20.0
Wisconsin 2005 5,536,201 1,142 20.6
Maryland 2005 5,600,388 1,266 22.6
Virginia 2005 7,567,465 1,721 22.7
Vermont 2005 623,050 145 23.3
Georgia 2005 9,072,576 2,143 23.6
Wyoming 2005 509,294 122 24.0
North Dakota 2005 636,677 154 24.2
Maine 2005 1,321,505 326 24.7
California 2005 36,132,147 9,392 26.0
North Carolina 2005 8,683,242 2,302 26.5
Hawaii 2005 1,275,194 343 26.9
Massachusetts 2005 6,398,743 1,732 27.1
Iowa 2005 2,966,334 827 27.9
Missouri 2005 5,800,310 1,625 28.0
Pennsylvania 2005 12,429,616 3,586 28.9
Indiana 2005 6,271,973 1,856 29.6
Rhode Island 2005 1,076,189 321 29.8
District of Columbia 2005 550,521 166 30.2
New Hampshire 2005 1,309,940 405 30.9
Louisiana 2005 4,523,628 1,421 31.4
Montana 2005 935,670 301 32.2
Nebraska 2005 1,758,787 579 32.9
Illinois 2005 12,763,371 4,297 33.7
Arizona 2005 5,939,292 2,006 33.8
Kentucky 2005 4,173,405 1,421 34.0
Alabama 2005 4,557,808 1,564 34.3
Oregon 2005 3,641,056 1,266 34.8
Tennessee 2005 5,962,959 2,171 36.4
Florida 2005 17,789,864 6,592 37.1
Texas 2005 22,859,968 8,511 37.2
Utah 2005 2,469,585 920 37.3
Kansas 2005 2,744,687 1,055 38.4
Mississippi 2005 2,921,088 1,147 39.3
Ohio 2005 11,464,042 4,557 39.8
Idaho 2005 1,429,096 577 40.4
Oklahoma 2005 3,547,884 1,481 41.7
Nevada 2005 2,414,807 1,016 42.1
South Carolina 2005 4,255,083 1,809 42.5
Arkansas 2005 2,779,154 1,193 42.9
Colorado 2005 4,665,177 2,026 43.4
Minnesota 2005 5,132,799 2,258 44.0
Delaware 2005 843,524 377 44.7
Washington 2005 6,287,759 2,811 44.7
South Dakota 2005 775,933 362 46.7
Michigan 2005 10,120,860 5,193 51.3
New Mexico 2005 1,928,384 1,044 54.1
Alaska 2005 663,661 538 81.1


How'z that?

Cool. NJ has the fewest rapes per 100,000 people. Not only are we progressive compared to much of the USA, we're civilized.