NationStates Jolt Archive

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has waded into the controversial issue of Quebec nationhood, saying he will introduce a motion recognizing that Quebecers form a nation "within a united Canada."

"Our position is clear. Do the Québécois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Québécois form an independent nation? The answer is no and the answer will always be no," Harper told the House on Wednesday.

Harper's motion — which states that "this House recognizes that Québécois form a nation within a united Canada — was prompted to defuse a Bloc Québécois motion to be debated Thursday. The Bloc motion calls for Quebec to be recognized as a nation but does not include the words "in Canada."

Harper said the issue of Quebec's nationhood should not be decided by the federal government but by the Quebec legislation. However, he said the Bloc has forced the government to take a position.

"The Bloc Québécois has asked us to define this, and perhaps that's a good thing because it reminds us that all Canadians have a say in the future of this country," Harper said.

The Tories had earlier said they will oppose the Bloc motion. Some Liberals had said they'll support it because they believe it merely states the obvious.

But others warned that it was too vague and open to interpretation.

Harper said the intent of the Bloc motion is clear: "It's not to recognize what Quebecers are, but what sovereigntists would like them to be.

"For the Bloc, it's not a matter of Quebec as a nation — the National Assembly has already pronounced itself on that. It's about separation. For them, 'nation' means 'separation."'

Quebec issue has divided Liberal leadership race

Michael Ignatieff said he was "gratified" by the proposal. The Liberal leadership contender has received criticism over his position that Quebecers' language, history, culture and territory mark "them out as a separate people" who should be recognized as a nation.

In his platform, he also said that recognition, as well as the recognition of First Nations, should eventually be enshrined in the Constitution.

"I'm sure that Mr. Harper is not in the business of throwing me any life jackets at all," Ignatieff said.

"You'll have to ask the other candidates in the race how they'll react," he added.

Bob Rae and Stéphane Dion are among the leadership candidates who have argued against the position.

Rae said the party shouldn't reopen constitutional questions and Dion has said the province's status is a "symbolic" question and shouldn't divert attention from real issues.

The long-simmering issue first hit the headlines again in October, when the Quebec wing of the federal Liberal party voted to recognize Quebec as a nation in Canada.

It immediately caused controversy within the party, as various Liberal leadership contenders either weighed in on the matter or urged party members not to let it dominate the race before the December convention.

Earlier Wednesday, Graham met with the leadership contenders to try to settle the issue of Quebec's nationhood among them, but nothing was resolved.

Liberals suggest they'll support government's motion

Interim Liberal leader Bill Graham indicated his party would support the prime minister's motion in the House, saying they will work to "adopt a solution that respects Quebec and Quebecers."

"It is the duty of members of this House to give them that hope; it is the duty for us to transcend whatever partisan ambitions we have in order to inspire not only Canadians but [also] other people in the world."

He said later that his MPs will meet Thursday to discuss the motion and he expressed confidence they will unite behind it. But at least one, Jim Karygiannis, said he would oppose it.

NDP Leader Jack Layton said his party would support both the government and the Bloc motions.

But Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe rejected Harper's motion on Quebec's nationhood outright, saying it meant Quebecers would only be recognized as a nation if they stayed within Canada.

Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.

agreed.

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)


Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.

Nuke les Quebequois!

Although, I am pretty sure the Bloc is happy with this.

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.

Perhaps, but at least it's peaceful. The Quebecois don't go blowing up government buildings in Ottawa or shooting rockets toward civilian areas. The Canadian government hasn't sent in an occupation force to keep order.

As far as separatists movements go, they should all be so peaceful.

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.
Well, they ARE French, so what do you expect?

No offence to the French people, of course. I love you, but French jokes are just go fun to pass up on.
Nuke les Quebequois!

Although, I am pretty sure the Bloc is happy with this.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Canada doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Read the article. It said that the Bloc says this is not enough and wants full sovereignty.
Perhaps, but at least it's peaceful. The Quebecois don't go blowing up government buildings in Ottawa or shooting rockets toward civilian areas. The Canadian government hasn't sent in an occupation force to keep order.

As far as separatists movements go, they should all be so peaceful.
FLQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ).

I suppose even with the FLQ, it's not as bad as some other seperatist movements have been. Still, other countries just want to seperate. Quebec wants to seperate AND get the rest of Canada's money.

FLQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ).
OK, so I should have said "anymore." :p

I suppose even with the FLQ, it's not as bad as some other seperatist movements have been. Still, other countries just want to seperate. Quebec wants to seperate AND get the rest of Canada's money.
I was going to make a French joke, but it would be in bad taste, so I'll let you just imagine it. :)

Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation".

It seems to work well enough for Spain (with the notable exception of the Basque Country) and the UK.

Still, other countries just want to seperate. Quebec wants to seperate AND get the rest of Canada's money.

If it weren't for the bolded part I'd say just let them go.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Canada doesn't have nuclear weapons.

Read the article. It said that the Bloc says this is not enough and wants full sovereignty.
Get the US to do it. I have proof that Quebec has Oil, WMD's, and Brown People. Also, as the Parrallel US Secretary of Defence, I have significant influence of who we nuke.

This not being enough does not prevent the Bloc from being happy. Say you wanted three tacos, but only got two. It wouldn't be enough, but you would still be happy, no?

Get the US to do it.

Oh, yeah. U.S. troops occupying Canada. That could end badly. Alex Trebek suicide bombing the capital? Alanis Morrissette AND Nickelback forcing innocent Americans to listen to their "music!" Somebody please think of the children!!!

Oh, yeah. U.S. troops occupying Canada. That could end badly. Alex Trebek suicide bombing the capital? Alanis Morrissette AND Nickelback forcing innocent Americans to listen to their "music!" Somebody please think of the children!!!

We have to listen to their whinigs and we turned out TV.

Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now.

Really? Then they don't fucking deserve the "right" to be separate. They're part of Canada, and hey, if they want their precious federal aid, then they should put up with it and shut the fuck up.

It's not like it makes a damn bit of difference either way. It's unbelievably petty and downright ridiculous.

OK, so I should have said "anymore." :p


I was going to make a French joke, but it would be in bad taste, so I'll let you just imagine it. :)
:p

Ahh, gotta love French jokes. *starry eyes*
It seems to work well enough for Spain (with the notable exception of the Basque Country) and the UK.



If it weren't for the bolded part I'd say just let them go.
But I really don't think I'll work with Cananda, especially with the Bloc being such greedy bastards.

Me too, actually. Even right now, I'd rather let them go than hear all the complaining. Without Canada's money, they'd be screwing themselves over horribly.
Get the US to do it. I have proof that Quebec has Oil, WMD's, and Brown People. Also, as the Parrallel US Secretary of Defence, I have significant influence of who we nuke.

This not being enough does not prevent the Bloc from being happy. Say you wanted three tacos, but only got two. It wouldn't be enough, but you would still be happy, no?
US nuking Quebec????? You strange child.

No, not if you know you can get all three tacos. Then you're going to try to get all three tacos, and make the taco-giver mad. Then you get no tacos.
Oh, yeah. U.S. troops occupying Canada. That could end badly. Alex Trebek suicide bombing the capital? Alanis Morrissette AND Nickelback forcing innocent Americans to listen to their "music!" Somebody please think of the children!!!
:eek:

DO NOT UTTER THESE HERESIES LEST THE WORLD IMPLODES!!!!!

PS. You missed Celine Dion.

If you're gonna become a nation you need to kill someone. That's just the way it works.

Really? Then they don't fucking deserve the "right" to be separate. They're part of Canada, and hey, if they want their precious federal aid, then they should put up with it and shut the fuck up.

It's not like it makes a damn bit of difference either way. It's unbelievably petty and downright ridiculous.
This is what they want. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement#Sovereignty-association) In plainer terms (if possible), Quebec gets to do whatever it wants while getting the fed's money.

But they're "a different culture" that is "being oppressed in an English majority". What I don't understand is that if they're such a distinct culture, then shouldn't the Chinese be allowed to form a party and seperate too? What about the Japanese? The Koreans? The Spanish? The Germans? The Africans? The Indians? Hell, these ethnic groups have a fuck lot more culture than the French has.

PS. You missed Celine Dion.
I didn't forget her -- I blocked her out. :p "My heart will go on." Not with a bullethole in it.

I just laugh at quebec. they spend too much money on forcing people to speak their bastardised version of the french language.

Quebec has less validity as an independent nation than Scotland.

Scotland could become independent tomorrow, and there would be only three differences for the UK.

1) End of the West Lothian question.
2) All Scottish issues decided in Scotland.
3) Lower taxes for England as we stop subisdising Scottish government spending.

I'm all for it...they'd be crawling back within a decade as they realise how much they gain from the UK.

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)


Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.

Kind of like a divorce, huh? :p
Political autonomy is so last century!

This is what they want. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement#Sovereignty-association) In plainer terms (if possible), Quebec gets to do whatever it wants while getting the fed's money.


That just sounded like they wanted no trade barriers.

Quebec has less validity as an independent nation than Scotland.

Scotland could become independent tomorrow, and there would be only three differences for the UK.

1) End of the West Lothian question.
2) All Scottish issues decided in Scotland.
3) Lower taxes for England as we stop subisdising Scottish government spending.

I'm all for it...they'd be crawling back within a decade as they realise how much they gain from the UK.

Though I do think Scotland benefit a lot from UK funding; presumably if they became independent they would be helped financially by the EU and the North Sea Oil reserves would be theirs and run to Edinburgh rather than Westminster

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)


Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.
This is just like Brian Mulrooney all over again......making promises to Quebec that can't be kept. You think they would learn?

Why stoke the separatiste fires when they are at a low.

Arrrggh!!

Though I do think Scotland benefit a lot from UK funding; presumably if they became independent they would be helped financially by the EU and the North Sea Oil reserves would be theirs and run to Edinburgh rather than Westminster
Nope. The EU benefits pretty much nobody, and there's no oil left in the North Sea any more and all that there was was too light to be converted into petrol.

Personally, I think that a better solution would be a federal UK - possibly including the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as well as the Home Nations. I daresay even Cornish independence/autonomist movements or even Gibraltar could have a look in too. That way, half-breed mutants like myself don't have to choose between being English or Scottish, and the UK remains intact.

Masterstroke from the Conservatives (even though I hate them). They cut the grass underneath the Bloc who has to vote against a "Quebec as a nation" law. I can already imagine the attack ads for next election.

The Bloc had it coming, trying to do the same with the Liberal party, by introducing a bill that was basically the same just to divide the Liberals a few days before their convention. The tories (which should be called Alliance, 'cause real tories got swamped by social conservatives) do the same with this bill and bring shame to the Bloc in one swift stroke.

This is just like Brian Mulrooney all over again......making promises to Quebec that can't be kept. You think they would learn?

Why stoke the separatiste fires when they are at a low.

Arrrggh!!
Possibly to get Tory votes in Quebec, I assume. Since he's only got a minority (correct me if I'm wrong) it would make sense to try and get more support in the more populous eastern provinces and have another go possibly early next year. I wouldn't put it past any PM, even one that harps (pun) on about fixed elections.

This is just like Brian Mulrooney all over again......making promises to Quebec that can't be kept. You think they would learn?

Why stoke the separatiste fires when they are at a low.

Arrrggh!!
Because the Bloc would have done the same next week anyways?

Now they can point and say "hypocrite".

*takes a NICE big deep breath*

This is exactly why I hate that that fucking province! What the hell makes it so goddamn special side from the fact that it's run by a bunch if whiny-ass pansy separatists? 'Distinct society'? What a bunch of fucking bullshit! I can't believe this. The last thing Canada needs is this kind of asinine, mindless shit. This is a step in the wrong way. Taking AWAY that distinct society shit might do something good - like lower resentment in the rest of Canada. And why the hell does this damn province need more funding than the rest of us? THey don't need any more goddamn rights! THEY ARE NOT FUCKING SPECIAL! They should just get over themselves already.

I'm done...

*takes a NICE big deep breath*

This is exactly why I hate that that fucking province! What the hell makes it so goddamn special side from the fact that it's run by a bunch if whiny-ass pansy separatists? 'Distinct society'? What a bunch of fucking bullshit! I can't believe this. The last thing Canada needs is this kind of asinine, mindless shit. This is a step in the wrong way. Taking AWAY that distinct society shit might do something good - like lower resentment in the rest of Canada. And why the hell does this damn province need more funding than the rest of us? THey don't need any more goddamn rights! THEY ARE NOT FUCKING SPECIAL! They should just get over themselves already.

I'm done...

*pats* there, there. We use the whine card to get more funding just like Ontario uses the economic card to get more funding just like every province tries to get as much money as possible.

We're just re-using what worked in the past. Sorry if gets on your nerves but it gets us your money so, nya!

So there's going to be a Canada and a Slightly French Canada?

*pats* there, there. We use the whine card to get more funding just like Ontario uses the economic card to get more funding just like every province tries to get as much money as possible.

We're just re-using what worked in the past. Sorry if gets on your nerves but it gets us your money so, nya!
Sorry you had to see that, but, I needed one really good childish rant here on NSG; I haven't done that in a while. But, yes, all provinces have their own little 'trump cards', I know what you mean.

But, don't worry, we'll get your money when you fly here to watch the Habs get chewed up and spit out by the Leafs. :p

So there's going to be a Canada and a Slightly French Canada?
Kind of like there was three days ago, except now the blowhards get to call themselves a 'nation within a nation'.

Possibly to get Tory votes in Quebec, I assume. Since he's only got a minority (correct me if I'm wrong) it would make sense to try and get more support in the more populous eastern provinces and have another go possibly early next year. I wouldn't put it past any PM, even one that harps (pun) on about fixed elections.
Yeah and Muldoon did the same thing back in the 80's and it backfired big time. It led to the creation of the Bloc Quebecquois and we know how pleasant that has been?

Yeah and Muldoon did the same thing back in the 80's and it backfired big time. It led to the creation of the Bloc Quebecquois and we know how pleasant that has been?
The Bloc seems to absorb votes that would otherwise have determined which party is the least of the evils.

Yeah and Muldoon did the same thing back in the 80's and it backfired big time. It led to the creation of the Bloc Quebecquois and we know how pleasant that has been?
I don't know: I'm not a Canadian :p

Masterstroke from the Conservatives (even though I hate them). They cut the grass underneath the Bloc who has to vote against a "Quebec as a nation" law. I can already imagine the attack ads for next election.

The Bloc had it coming, trying to do the same with the Liberal party, by introducing a bill that was basically the same just to divide the Liberals a few days before their convention. The tories (which should be called Alliance, 'cause real tories got swamped by social conservatives) do the same with this bill and bring shame to the Bloc in one swift stroke.

I have to agree. Harper managed to take the potential shitstorm that everyone was brewing for him and turned ot around on them. With the Bloc about to make the similar motion, and the young Liberals already discussing nationhood, I can see why Harper may have felt he was going to face a united front with this as he did with his Clean Air Act. By making this motion, he has defused the Bloc motion, possibly (though I doubt it) gained more popularity in Quebec, and thrown the Liberal leadership, and the current race, into disarray as that party races to come up with a coherent and cohesive policy about this.

Layton, slippery as always, manages to come out of this looking like he knew what he was doing all along, supporting the Conservative platform 'in solidarity' with Quebec. A humourous turn of events in that suburb of Hull.

I think if Quebec should be recognized as a nation, then so should the metis, the inuit, and other such natives, and don't forget about the middle easterners in Toronto, the chinese in vancouver, the ukrainians in Manitoba, or the Germans in Kitchener. You can't give preference to one minority, or else they'll all want recognition. Quebec doesn't understand how good they have it, if they separate, they'll be completely isolated(being the only french speaking nation in north america), and no one will support them. They'll go into a nosedive economy, and come crawling back to the "oppressive" anglo Canada. To Quebec: If you leave, we won't be your friends anymore.

French-Canada should just break off, go form its own country and move ties closer to France. Anglo-Canada should just become part of America. That would be AWESOME. I wouldnt mind at all, Anglo-Canadians are generally good people, even if a bit left, and Canada is basically the same as America, (even if a Canadian will tell anyone who wants to listen about the "WORLD OF DIFFERENCE" between us;) :p )

I can't wait to see how the native peoples take this. Hopefully, it will set a legislative precedent for native sovereignty of some sort. The article quoted in the OP mentioned some official who was discussing constitutional amendments enshrining the nationhood of Quebec and the different native cultures.

One can only hope.

Interestingly enough, the talking heads on CBC seem to be very clear on the difference between a nation and a state. Hopefully the difference will disseminate to the general public. I will not hold my breath.

The solution is simple let the Frogs have their own nation but the good people of Canada cut off ALL aid and financial backing to these fools.
The other part of the deal is they get no aid or backing from the U.S. aether, lets see how long they can last.
I live just across the boarder from Quebec in New York and I am sick and tired of all their pissing and moaning about how they are so oppressed. Who is oppressing them I would like to know. Come on please someone answer I want to know.

Alex Trebek suicide bombing the capital?

As he is no longer a Canadian citizen, he's your problem now. ;)

I just laugh at quebec. they spend too much money on forcing people to speak their bastardised version of the french language.

French in Quebec is so different from Parisian French because it's decended from the language as spoken in the countryside, pre-revolution. Bastardized? No more then any other dialect of the language. Beside, girls from Quebec have hot accents, and French girls... not as much. :D ;)

Sorry you had to see that, but, I needed one really good childish rant here on NSG; I haven't done that in a while. But, yes, all provinces have their own little 'trump cards', I know what you mean.

But, don't worry, we'll get your money when you fly here to watch the Habs get chewed up and spit out by the Leafs. :p

And we'll take it back when you come over with your precious leafs (who haven't won anything since the wheel was invented) and get drunk on our 'imported' Sleeman beer. Not to mention the thrashing the Habs will give the leafs...

I think if Quebec should be recognized as a nation, then so should the metis, the inuit, and other such natives, and don't forget about the middle easterners in Toronto, the chinese in vancouver, the ukrainians in Manitoba, or the Germans in Kitchener. You can't give preference to one minority, or else they'll all want recognition. Quebec doesn't understand how good they have it, if they separate, they'll be completely isolated(being the only french speaking nation in north america), and no one will support them. They'll go into a nosedive economy, and come crawling back to the "oppressive" anglo Canada. To Quebec: If you leave, we won't be your friends anymore.

Bah, I agree that most separatists don't understand the ramifications of separation, but I'm betting right now 2000$ that if we separate, it will be business as usual as far as economy is concerned. I mean, will Bell Canada separates and create Bell Quebec? No, there's money to be made here and Canadian companies (like every other company) will be damned if they let nationalism get in the way of the almighty dollar.

The solution is simple let the Frogs have their own nation but the good people of Canada cut off ALL aid and financial backing to these fools.
The other part of the deal is they get no aid or backing from the U.S. aether, lets see how long they can last.
I live just across the boarder from Quebec in New York and I am sick and tired of all their pissing and moaning about how they are so oppressed. Who is oppressing them I would like to know. Come on please someone answer I want to know.

Would you kindly refrain from using the term 'frog'? It's as bad as '******', 'wops', 'square-head', et al.

Thank You

And we'll take it back when you come over with your precious leafs (who haven't won anything since the wheel was invented) and get drunk on our 'imported' Sleeman beer. Not to mention the thrashing the Habs will give the leafs...
You mean you gusy drink something other than Labatt 50? :p

Would you kindly refrain from using the term 'frog'? It's as bad as '******', 'wops', 'square-head', et al.

Thank You

The thing about being an ignorant prick is, you realize you're being one and you don't care.

Dumb racist people know porch-monkey is offensive, and that's why they'll use it.

You mean you gusy drink something other than Labatt 50? :p

When we have guests, yes. After all, how else would Molson Canadian be sold otherwise?

...No, there's money to be made here and Canadian companies (like every other company) will be damned if they let nationalism get in the way of the almighty dollar.


In my opinion, this is why Quebec separatism is doomed. There is far more money to be made by Quebec capitalists by staying in canada than there is in separation. As Pariseau so ineptly put it: "It was big business and the ethnic vote that lost the referendum".

When we have guests, yes. After all, how else would Molson Canadian be sold otherwise?

Through pubs? :p

Would you kindly refrain from using the term 'frog'? It's as bad as '******', 'wops', 'square-head', et al.

Thank You
I mean really, if you want to insult a Quebecer, call them a peasouper, fail that, 'English Canadian'. :D

I suppose even with the FLQ, it's not as bad as some other seperatist movements have been. Still, other countries just want to seperate. Quebec wants to seperate AND get the rest of Canada's money.

...

They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now.

Hum... NO

One of the many reasons Quebec want to separate is because it feels it doesn't get the right part of what it is paying to Canada and mostly because he don't get much control on the expense.

But, no and I'll repeat, NO one in Quebec is expecting to kept getting money from Ottawa once separated!!! Where are you taking such of a stupid idea? Globe and Mail?

A lot of Albertans are supportive of Quebec achieving more(to a greater or lesser degree) independance.

Do not forget that property and resource rights fall in the domain of provinces, and so any movement up to, but possibly excluding full separation is perfectly legal. In fact, many of the federal powers were stolen and wrestled away from the provinces.

It was the federal liberals in the 30s that truly spawned the creation of the separatist movement in Canada.

Harper's declaration was exactly that - a declaration. There was no legislation behind it, so it has zero material effect on anything at all.

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)


Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy. I wouldn't worry about this, it's nothing but political posturing. There is already an appeasment statute after the failed separatist referendums recognising Quebec as a distinct society and all that. There would actually have to be a change the Constitution to recognise Quebec as a nation within a nation, and there is a Supreme Court of Canada test to determine the process (actually separating, or changing status).

It's hot air.

Harper's declaration was exactly that - a declaration. There was no legislation behind it, so it has zero material effect on anything at all.
If it means nothing, people will pay attention to it. From an outside point of view, all it seems to be doing is stating the obvious to chop up the Bloc Quebecois.

Do not forget that property and resource rights fall in the domain of provinces, and so any movement up to, but possibly excluding full separation is perfectly legal.
Separation is also perfectly legal. The Clarity Act, which was passed by Jean Chrétien's government, but was actually written by Stephen Harper, laid out specific means provinces could follow to achieve independence.

I've been an advocate of an independent Alberta (or west - TILMA is helping with that) for years.

If you're looking to blame somebody, start with Michael Ignatieff - the eminently stoopid ivory-tower academic who opened this untimely can of worms.

Masterstroke from the Conservatives (even though I hate them). They cut the grass underneath the Bloc who has to vote against a "Quebec as a nation" law. I can already imagine the attack ads for next election.

The Bloc had it coming, trying to do the same with the Liberal party, by introducing a bill that was basically the same just to divide the Liberals a few days before their convention. The tories (which should be called Alliance, 'cause real tories got swamped by social conservatives) do the same with this bill and bring shame to the Bloc in one swift stroke.

QFT

I don't think many of the posters here have caught onto the context here and understood just what a perfect play this was by Harper.

This is just like Brian Mulrooney all over again......making promises to Quebec that can't be kept. You think they would learn?

Why stoke the separatiste fires when they are at a low.

Arrrggh!!

Maybe he will destroy the Conservative Party like Mulrooney did.

Maybe he will destroy the Conservative Party like Mulrooney did.
That's okay, I liked the Reform Party more anyway.

I've been an advocate of an independent Alberta (or west - TILMA is helping with that) for years.
I'd prefer a all around increase in western alienation, but whatever gets the job done.

That's okay, I liked the Reform Party more anyway.

RefOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOrm![/Preston Manning]

Separation is also perfectly legal. The Clarity Act, which was passed by Jean Chrétien's government, but was actually written by Stephen Harper, laid out specific means provinces could follow to achieve independence.

I've been an advocate of an independent Alberta (or west - TILMA is helping with that) for years.
Forget Quebec and Alberta - free Prince Edward Island!

I wonder if they do seperate from Canada if they'll change their name to.....Let's say.......New France. :p

I wonder if they do seperate from Canada if they'll change their name to.....Let's say.......New France. :p

Actually, we'll change to "French State of America", that way you won't be the only one that can be refered to as "American".

Actually, we'll change to "French State of America", that way you won't be the only one that can be refered to as "American".

Je suis Americain! Et ces autres sont EUsiens.:)

A "nation" is not a "state". A nation is simply a group of people with common language, customs, and traditions. A state is founded upon a nation of peoples - it is the territory and sovereign government.

So it is possible for Quebec to be considered a distinct nation from the rest of Canada without being an independent state. Just like the native American nations are still distinct nations though they do not enjoy wholly independent, sovereign state status within the United States of America.

This is a post I ought to state my opinion. I love politics.

I believe that Harper is making this move to encourage Quebec to separate us and perhaps it will benefit us all. I am a very patriotic Canadian and Quebec has a very different point of view of how Canada should be.

Harper believes in unity and this move will give us a chance to prove that Quebec cannot survive on its own. Trust me, they cannot. Our economy relies heavily on trading with other countries. Quebec does not have many resources to trade and relies on other provinces to support their own province.

They complain, threaten, they have not done anything to contribute the country but to stand for what they believe in. Majority of Quebecers voted for Bloc Quebecers, obviously half of the citizens there wants to separate Canada.

If they succeed to become an independent nation, they will come crawling back to us and beg to rejoin our nation. Let them go, we want Quebec to stay with us but many Quebecers does not. They want to try it and they will fail. It's a lesson to be learned after they cannot survive as an independant nation.

I am not trying to offend anyone, this is my own thoughts of expression.

I am curious to know, If Quebec can pull off this independent nation thing, won't the other provinces be upset or jealous about it and all want to become Independent Nations?

Is this a good idea of Quebec seperating from all of Canada?

Who cares about what goes on in Canada anyways? :p

Seriously, people should always have the right to self determination, so if those kraz-ee Quebeccians(?) want their own nation, so be it.

President Clinton would never allow an independent Quebec.

I am curious to know, If Quebec can pull off this independent nation thing, won't the other provinces be upset or jealous about it and all want to become Independent Nations?

Is this a good idea of Quebec seperating from all of Canada?
Alberta might well start making noises, but I'm no expert. Which is a shame, really, because Canada's just cool, half English, half French and all trouble.:D

President Clinton would never allow an independent Quebec.

I say the USA should remain neutral and stay out of it completely.

Forget Quebec and Alberta - free Prince Edward Island!

Screw the rest of Canada, Ontario should leave! But the rest of Canada can keep Ottawa.

I say the USA should remain neutral and stay out of it completely.

I would say that too. But it won't.

This sounds like something that ought to be on the UN's plate. Resolution and condemnation time....... :p

Vive le Québec libre! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrKq6-gZM0I)

C'est tout.

Vive le Québec libre! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrKq6-gZM0I)

C'est tout.
All that does is make De Gaulle look like a complete asshole. I lost all respect for the man after his infamous visit to Quebec.

C'est la vie. :(

Edit: he should have stayed home, you know, the one that Canadian forces help liberate from German hands.....not once, but twice. Jerk!!

First of all, the proposal recognizes 'Le Quebecois' and not the state of Quebec. At this point, after proposed amendments and amendments to amendments - it looks like the document will refer to le Quebecois as 'a nation currently within a united Canada'.

This is what they want. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement#Sovereignty-association) In plainer terms (if possible), Quebec gets to do whatever it wants while getting the fed's money.

But they're "a different culture" that is "being oppressed in an English majority". What I don't understand is that if they're such a distinct culture, then shouldn't the Chinese be allowed to form a party and seperate too? What about the Japanese? The Koreans? The Spanish? The Germans? The Africans? The Indians? Hell, these ethnic groups have a fuck lot more culture than the French has.
Maybe in the 70s. After NAFTA, the Sovereignty-Association idea is less prevalent in the separatist movement.
To Quebec: If you leave, we won't be your friends anymore.
I doubt that. Canada and the United States would definitely be an independent Quebec's main trading partners.
I mean really, if you want to insult a Quebecer, call them a peasouper, fail that, 'English Canadian'. :D
Or even a French Canadian. I know people who would cringe if they were referred to as a French Canadian and not a Quebecois.

As far as I'm concerned about Harper - I think he just wants to make history by being the Prime Minister that got Quebec to sign the constitution.

As far as I'm concerned about Harper - I think he just wants to make history by being the Prime Minister that got Quebec to sign the constitution.
When pigs fly!

As far as I'm concerned about Harper - I think he just wants to make history by being the Prime Minister that got Quebec to sign the constitution.
That would only happen if Harper was prepared to give away the store. I don't see him being the one to pull off the unity deal.

All that does is make De Gaulle look like a complete asshole.

De Gaulle was always an ass hole. He was however a correct ass hole.

Edit: he should have stayed home, you know, the one that Canadian forces help liberate from German hands.....not once, but twice. Jerk!!

And he just wanted to reciprocate in liberating Québec.

All that does is make De Gaulle look like a complete asshole. I lost all respect for the man after his infamous visit to Quebec.

C'est la vie. :(

Edit: he should have stayed home, you know, the one that Canadian forces help liberate from German hands.....not once, but twice. Jerk!!
And he vetoed us (UK) joining the EU twice after we liberated his country. Not as bad as "vive le Quebec libre", but still adds to his arsehole status.

Screw the rest of Canada, Ontario should leave! But the rest of Canada can keep Ottawa.

I like it!

I'll tell the boys at GM to switch the assembly line to 'tanks' and start firing up the independance machine.

Mind you, I think the schematics are for 40's era war machines... we might be a decade behind the rest of Canada...

That would only happen if Harper was prepared to give away the store. I don't see him being the one to pull off the unity deal.
He has a better chance at it than the PQ winning a referendum.

And he vetoed us (UK) joining the EU twice after we liberated his country.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Most of you don't even want to be in the EU. Seems like De Gaulle was better a representative to the British than the British leaders were. I only wish he'd been around to block Sweden's entry.

Harper's a canny politician, but I think he's underestimating the anti-separatist reaction in the rest of Canada. I don't think the average Canadian is going to like the whole 'nation' banter.

He should have stuck to his guns, and pushed for a decentralized Canada, with more powers to the provinces. Take the wind out of the separatist sails that way; leave culture, official languages and all that to each province.

Instead, I think the average voter is going to blame Harper for a new constitutional mess.

When pigs fly!
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/143000/143421AGif_w.jpg

:eek:

And he just wanted to reciprocate in liberating Québec.
Quebec doesn't exactly need liberation the same as France did...

Quebec doesn't exactly need liberation the same as France did...

... but Québec deserves it more.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Most of you don't even want to be in the EU. Seems like De Gaulle was better a representative to the British than the British leaders were. I only wish he'd been around to block Sweden's entry.
Aye, but that's not really the point.

... but Québec deserves it more.
Why?

Aye, but that's not really the point.

The point being that he was an ass hole, but he was a correct ass hole.

Why?

Why not?

... but Québec deserves it more.

They deserve squat.

EDIT: Fine... if anything, they deserve a nice swift kick in the ass for being such an annoyance.

They deserve squat.

No, they were subject to squatting. Time to end it.

De Gaulle was always an ass hole. He was however a correct ass hole.
Naw....if he was a correct asshole, he would have left his head stuck up there.

And he just wanted to reciprocate in liberating Québec.
Meanwhile, French Canadians detested conscription and didn't seem too interested in liberating the motherland?

Where were the French troops when they were fighting the English on the Plains of Abraham? Guess they couldn't be concerned with colonial matters?

No, they were subject to squatting. Time to end it.
why does one province deserve more than any other? We are all equal. This special treatment shit makes me want to form the Ontario Separatist Party (OST) and let the rest of the country sink itself. We have bilingualism forced on us while the pea-soupers sacrifice nothing.

The point being that he was an ass hole, but he was a correct ass hole.
Yeah, but that doesn't stop him being an arsehole, unfortunately.

Why not?
As much as I don't like Harper, he's not running a fascist dictatorship and installing a puppet government. Quebec is free, if not sovereign.

why does one province deserve more than any other? We are all equal. This special treatment shit makes me want to form the Ontario Separatist Party (OST) and let the rest of the country sink itself. We have bilingualism forced on us while the pea-soupers sacrifice nothing.
Careful. With a name like OST - people'll think you'll be trying to raise the Ontario sales tax.

Naw....if he was a correct asshole, he would have left his head stuck up there.

It couldn't fit, what with the rest of Canada being up there.

Meanwhile, French Canadians detested conscription and didn't seem too interested in liberating the motherland?

You're saying the French are ungrateful and then turn around to say they aren't grateful to France? The contradiction lies where?

Where were the French troops when they were fighting the English on the Plains of Abraham? Guess they couldn't be concerned with colonial matters?

They had more pressing issues at hand - Europe. More important than Canada, and the Québecois understand the unimportance of Canada very well.

why does one province deserve more than any other? We are all equal. This special treatment shit makes me want to form the Ontario Separatist Party (OST) and let the rest of the country sink itself. We have bilingualism forced on us while the pea-soupers sacrifice nothing.

Bilingualism is s blessing - that's why they're not "sacrificing" anything, as they're already giving something precious.

Yeah, but that doesn't stop him being an arsehole, unfortunately.

Still doesn't take away from being right all along.

As much as I don't like Harper, he's not running a fascist dictatorship and installing a puppet government. Quebec is free, if not sovereign.

Sans quoi, il ne sera jamais vraiment libre.

Bilingualism is s blessing - that's why they're not "sacrificing" anything, as they're already giving something precious.
It is when the street goes both ways. Ottawa has no shortage of bilingual signs. Cross the river, and *BAM* not a bilingual sign in sight. It's like English doesn't exist 'across the river' in Hull.

It couldn't fit, what with the rest of Canada being up there.
Perhaps that is your take on the situation.

You're saying the French are ungrateful and then turn around to say they aren't grateful to France? The contradiction lies where?
Guess there is no contradiction. Perhaps their lack of gratitude is innate?

They more pressing issues at hand - Europe. More important than Canada, and the Québecois understand the unimportance of Canada very well.
Yet if the Quebecquois want to celebrate their uniqueness, why do they find it difficult to replicate their own, especially since their are finacial rewards for doing so?

Still doesn't take away from being right all along.
And as you put it, it doesn't stop him being an arsehole.

Sans quoi, il ne sera jamais vraiment libre.
Are other Canadian provinces not free either?

for no reason at breaking into song and dance

kick it sinead.

when we came to yanky land
they put guns into our hands
saying paddy you must go and fight for lincon.

for no reason at breaking into song and dance

kick it sinead.

when we came to yanky land
they put guns into our hands
saying paddy you must go and fight for lincon.
Where do I find the English translation for what you have written? :p

why does one province deserve more than any other? We are all equal. This special treatment shit makes me want to form the Ontario Separatist Party (OST) and let the rest of the country sink itself.
Please do. Without Ontario constantly voting Liberal Alberta could run this joint.

Please do. Without Ontario constantly voting Liberal Alberta could run this joint.
Good, and no more "Reform" party. :p And we don't ALL vote Liberal... some of us vote NDP. ;)

Good, and no more "Reform" party. :p And we don't ALL vote Liberal... some of us vote NDP. ;)
You voted for Olivia Chow, didn't you?

You voted for Olivia Chow, didn't you?
I would if I lived in the Trinity-Spadina area.

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Cuz that is a Canuke's worst nightmare.

Yeah, they don't like being a part of Canada but they'll looooove being part of the US. Suuuure.

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Because they want their independence.

What makes you think that the US would want Quebec?

Demaray = MeansToAnEnd modified troll.

Just let them be independent.

Demaray = MeansToAnEnd modified troll.

I'm starting to think that, too...

I mean common, he's blatently anti-Muslim (as I've seen in International Incidents, not sure about real life), and so is MTAE...

And speaking about MTAE, I haven't seen him in so long.

The real reason why Quebec will never separate is because they'd probably have to rename the Canadiens. And that's NOT going to happen.

Because the US speaks English.

Bilingualism is s blessing - that's why they're not "sacrificing" anything, as they're already giving something precious.
If Quebec wasn't around to force French on everyone, I would still know a second language. It just wouldn't be French. My efforts would go into a language that means something were I live: Mandarin, Punjabi, Korean, maybe even German. But French, nobody in the region speaks it. They might as well have taught me Latin, because French is dead on the west side.

Please do. Without Ontario constantly voting Liberal Alberta could run this joint.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_population#Listing
If Quebec and BC were dragged along kicking and screaming.

The United States wants oil, not Quebec. If we could have our pick, we'd have Alberta and its vast deposits of oil sands.

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Thats fine.. if you give us your heartland states... Then try to hold together your republic.

Thats fine.. if you give us your heartland states... Then try to hold together your republic.
You're more than welcome to them... Of course then you Canadians will have to deal with the arch-conservatives/fundies from that area who will suddenly be flooding in and demanding that Canada teach Creationism. ;)

If Quebec wasn't around to force French on everyone, I would still know a second language. It just wouldn't be French. My efforts would go into a language that means something were I live: Mandarin, Punjabi, Korean, maybe even German. But French, nobody in the region speaks it. They might as well have taught me Latin, because French is dead on the west side.
No it's not.

*in denial*

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.

Every year since I was in like 4th grade I've heard about Quebec becoming an independent country. It'll never happen.

You're more than welcome to them... Of course then you Canadians will have to deal with the arch-conservatives/fundies from that area who will suddenly be flooding in and demanding that Canada teach Creationism. ;)

Then we'll set the people of Northern Canada on you. You have not heard cold rants until you meet these people.

You're more than welcome to them... Of course then you Canadians will have to deal with the arch-conservatives/fundies from that area who will suddenly be flooding in and demanding that Canada teach Creationism. ;)

Pretty much the same as Albertans... HIGH-OH! OH SNAP! BURN!

Anyways. Quebec is rediculous.

No it's not.

*in denial*

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

well...You're dead on the west coast! HA!

I hate myself sometimes...

Then we'll set the people of Northern Canada on you. You have not heard cold rants until you meet these people.
I live in Nagano, Japan. A country that has yet to invent insulation and central heating... I doubt it.

well...You're dead on the west coast! HA!

I hate myself sometimes...

I said dead on the west side, not west coast.:rolleyes:

I live in Nagano, Japan. A country that has yet to invent insulation and central heating... I doubt it.

Darn...foiled again. We'll just set the members of the BC Sex Party on you then. :p

I said dead on the west side, not west coast.:rolleyes:

I stand corrected on the comment that I hate myself sometimes...

I stand corrected on the comment that I hate myself sometimes...

I am that which you hate, no?

I am that which you hate, no?

Unless you are me, I did not state that I hate you.

Unless you are me, I did not state that I hate you.

I thought this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11990706&postcount=120) meant that you did not hate yourself but in fact someone else (ie me).

So then you are saying you confusing coast and side caused you to like yourself?

I thought this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11990706&postcount=120) meant that you did not hate yourself but in fact someone else (ie me).

So then you are saying you confusing coast and side caused you to like yourself?

No, that comment still said I hate myself, not anybody else. Where are you getting these absurd ideas from?

No, I'm saying lack of sleep + coffe + stress = Lisa's brainz imploding

Why can't all Canadians love Canada. Everyone wants to leave... breaks my heart.

Im concerned about my future if Canada seperates... once quebec goes.. Alberta will be looking for the door... then B.C. then the Maritimes. Then poor old Ontario will be stuck with smelly old Manitoba and Saskatchawan. Great.

Why can't all Canadians love Canada. Everyone wants to leave... breaks my heart.

Im concerned about my future if Canada seperates... once quebec goes.. Alberta will be looking for the door... then B.C. then the Maritimes. Then poor old Ontario will be stuck with smelly old Manitoba and Saskatchawan. Great.

BC wants to go as badly as Alberta. Hopefully the two go together. They're the thick skulled conservatives, we're the douchy liberals... I smell at sitcom!

No one likes Ontario, but Ontario likes everyone else. You guys are mean! We didn't want to be in your stupid club anyways!

No one likes Ontario, but Ontario likes everyone else. You guys are mean! We didn't want to be in your stupid club anyways!

You're telling me Ontario actually likes the Newfies or the Albertan hicks? Wow...just wow...

Am I alone in my hopes that this will eventually erupt into full scale civil war?

Not that I am generally an advocate of conflict...but I honestly believe that a war between Quebec and the rest of Canada could be the funniest armed conflict of all time. :p

You're telling me Ontario actually likes the Newfies or the Albertan hicks? Wow...just wow...

You like the Newfies...

Am I alone in my hopes that this will eventually erupt into full scale civil war?

Not that I am generally an advocate of conflict...but I honestly believe that a war between Quebec and the rest of Canada could be the funniest armed conflict of all time. :p
Because we'd all be drunk, fighting with hockey sticks and slipping on ice, throwing snow/ice chunks at each other, have beave allies, and use our igloos as base camps, right? :p
You like the Newfies...
I like hot young Newfie men. They are forgiven for being Newfies.

You're telling me Ontario actually likes the Newfies or the Albertan hicks? Wow...just wow...

I love all my Canadian brothers and sisters ;)

Just 'cause we have disagreements or you get mad at one another, doesn't mean you have to hate them.

I love all my Canadian brothers and sisters ;)

Just 'cause we have disagreements or you get mad at one another, doesn't mean you have to hate them.
:fluffle:

[QUOTE=Artitsa;11990676]Pretty much the same as Albertans... HIGH-OH! OH SNAP! BURN!
QUOTE]

Whatever. Ontario has more Bible thumpers than Alberta.

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Because they want to be Quebecois, not Canadian, and not USAmerican.

Becoming a part of the US is NOT becoming independent -- it's just switching affiliation.

Right. They want to be free from bungling distant federal politicians. Lots of other Canadians would like that too. That way, we would all have more energy to bemoan the provincial and municipal ones.

i find it funny that america thinks it has a good economy. with all those lovely ghetos.

poor old Ontario will be stuck with smelly old Manitoba and Saskatchawan. Great.

And that right there outlines what pisses the rest of Canada off. Too many people in Central Canada look down on the rest of us. Sometimes that means exploitation.

Screw the rest of Canada, Ontario should leave! But the rest of Canada can keep Ottawa.

You gave birth to it! You keep it!

Because we'd all be drunk, fighting with hockey sticks and slipping on ice, throwing snow/ice chunks at each other, have beave allies, and use our igloos as base camps, right? :p

Well, partly that... ;)

But more because I think that, whichever side wins, it has the chance of being the most one-sided war of all time. :p

i find it funny that america thinks it has a good economy. with all those lovely ghetos.

I find it funny that ireland gets anything done with all those lovely drunks.

Quebec- the emo, rebellious child of the family of Canada. They want their independence. But why not become a US state? A good economy and military, and more recources for the US and no more being a part of Canada. Why doesn't Quebec become a state?

Gee, because, they want independence? As in, not just not to be a part of Canada, but to be their own nation?

I love all my Canadian brothers and sisters ;)

Just 'cause we have disagreements or you get mad at one another, doesn't mean you have to hate them.
Amen to that brother, or is it sister? :D

No one likes Ontario, but Ontario likes everyone else. You guys are mean! We didn't want to be in your stupid club anyways!

You're telling me Ontario actually likes the Newfies or the Albertan hicks? Wow...just wow...

I love all my Canadian brothers and sisters ;)

Just 'cause we have disagreements or you get mad at one another, doesn't mean you have to hate them.
Ontario is like the oldest sibling who is trying to keep the family together after mom and dad died. They are trying to like everyone, but everyone else hates us because they think we're a bunch of liberal, ass-kissing over achievers. :p

Amazing. The states of canada now have personalities. Its a like a drama.



Nova Scotia, i have some bad news

What is it British Columbia?

Qubec wants to divorce Ontario and leave our family

Dont worry, No body is divorcing in Canada while I, Nova Scotia am around

Meanwhile, French Canadians detested conscription and didn't seem too interested in liberating the motherland?

Seeing as the motherland was England, you damn right we weren't interested. If you told us we were going to liberate Paris, we would have probably joined more. But to fight for the British? No, Thank You!

It is when the street goes both ways. Ottawa has no shortage of bilingual signs. Cross the river, and *BAM* not a bilingual sign in sight. It's like English doesn't exist 'across the river' in Hull.

That's because of a law made to protect the french language (silly, I know). Now, let me tell you about the Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull is dead) relationship:

- If you're drunk, you hate the other side.
- If you're on your side, you try to block, delay and frustrate the other side's drivers (how many time have I seen an Ontario license plate speed by me, change lanes and then roll at 25 km/h in front of me for no reasons...)
- If you're doing business, you love everyone and can switch language anytime.
- If there is 1 english and 5 french, odds are they all will be speaking english unless drunk (see above)

The real reason why Quebec will never separate is because they'd probably have to rename the Canadiens. And that's NOT going to happen.

QFT

That's because of a law made to protect the french language (silly, I know). Now, let me tell you about the Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull is dead) relationship:

- If you're drunk, you hate the other side.
- If you're on your side, you try to block, delay and frustrate the other side's drivers (how many time have I seen an Ontario license plate speed by me, change lanes and then roll at 25 km/h in front of me for no reasons...)
- If you're doing business, you love everyone and can switch language anytime.
- If there is 1 english and 5 french, odds are they all will be speaking english unless drunk (see above)

Very well said! Some give him/her a cookie

Because they want to be Quebecois, not Canadian, and not USAmerican.

Becoming a part of the US is NOT becoming independent -- it's just switching affiliation.
Besides, the politics of Quebec are so much different. They're on the total opposite side of the political spectrum from America.

Pretty much the same as Albertans... HIGH-OH! OH SNAP! BURN!

Anyways. Quebec is rediculous.

:rolleyes:

spoken like a true Ontarian

:rolleyes:

spoken like a true Ontarian

lol:D

:rolleyes:

spoken like a true Ontarian

What?! It is!


...In a good way, I swear. Hey if we didn't have Quebec where would we go for underage gambling and drinking?

What?! It is!


...In a good way, I swear. Hey if we didn't have Quebec where would we go for underage gambling and drinking?

Don't forget our booming sex trade!

-snip-

Le reste du Canada a besoin du Québec autant que le Québec a besoin du reste du Canada..

The law to protect French was very important and I'm glad it was passed. English is such a horrible language :X

Mon amoureux et moi nous déplacerons au Québec bientôt ^_^

What?! It is!


...In a good way, I swear. Hey if we didn't have Quebec where would we go for underage gambling and drinking?

I find it hard to believe that Quebec is ridiculous. Especially when you speak of underage gambling and drinking.

I mean, who is ridiculous? I say it'S the one who expect you to wait until you're 21 to drink but lets you have a gun at 18. Believe me, if I have a gun, I can get alcohol, try and stop me.

You'll have to explain why you think we're ridiculous. Please.

Thats why drinking should be allowed at 18 and guns should only be allowed for the goverment

Seeing as the motherland was England, you damn right we weren't interested. If you told us we were going to liberate Paris, we would have probably joined more. But to fight for the British? No, Thank You!
It was France that was occupied from the very start. I don't think you rationalized that correctly. My three uncles fought on French soil. My father was stationed in England. And yeah, the British, and Canadians, lost many lives trying to liberate France.

The most classic unsuccessful attempt was Dieppe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid):

The Dieppe Raid, also known as The Battle of Dieppe or Operation Jubilee, during World War II, was an Allied attack on the German-occupied port of Dieppe, Seine-Maritime on the Northern coast of France on August 19, 1942. Over 6,000 infantrymen, predominantly Canadian, were supported by large British naval and air contingents. Intended to seize and hold a major port for a short period, both to prove it was possible and to gather intelligence from prisoners and captured materials while assessing the German responses, the raid was also intended to use air power to draw the Luftwaffe into a large, planned encounter.

The raid was generally considered to be an unmitigated tactical disaster, with no major objectives accomplished. 4,384 of the 6,086 men who made it ashore were either killed, wounded, or captured. The RAF and RCAF failed to lure the Luftwaffe into open battle, and lost 119 planes, whilst the Royal Navy suffered 555 casualties. The catastrophe at Dieppe may have later influenced Allied preparations for Operation Torch and D-Day.

I find it funny that ireland gets anything done with all those lovely drunks.

think of what we could accomplish if we were sober.......

think of what we could accomplish if we were sober.......

You right! If ireland was sober, think of the power it can unleash!


NOTE: Regular supply of beer must be sent to ireland

You right! If ireland was sober, think of the power it can unleash!


NOTE: Regular supply of beer must be sent to ireland

i think the dutch are already on to this. they make beer that you cant buy in holland but they only export to ireland.

It was France that was occupied from the very start. I don't think you rationalized that correctly. My three uncles fought on French soil. My father was stationed in England. And yeah, the British, and Canadians, lost many lives trying to liberate France.

The most classic unsuccessful attempt was Dieppe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid):

Listen, I was nowhere near an idea in my father's mind at the time, but from what was taught me, the english speaking Canadian wanted the french speaking Canadians to enlist to defend the motherland (read UK). At least, that's howit was viewed and why many french canadians were iffy about the deal. Imagine, defend the colonizing power that keep us down.

Of course, they fought in France, and of course it was a noble goal. But try to push for anything that would help the UK in Quebec and you'll find stiff resistance.

Listen, I was nowhere near an idea in my father's mind at the time, but from what was taught me, the english speaking Canadian wanted the french speaking Canadians to enlist to defend the motherland (read UK). At least, that's howit was viewed and why many french canadians were iffy about the deal. Imagine, defend the colonizing power that keep us down.

Of course, they fought in France, and of course it was a noble goal. But try to push for anything that would help the UK in Quebec and you'll find stiff resistance.

Try imagine the brits in charge of usa for u americans and no offense but i think the french are the stupidest people on earth

Try imagine the brits in charge of usa for u americans and no offense but i think the french are the stupidest people on earth

Lol I love when people say "no offense" as if its really gonna make anyone feel better about an offensive statement

In response to the OP, cheeky bugger, that Harper.

OK fine i take it back

But u have to admit that the French cut of so much heads cause they wanted to rid their king only to have another one later is very dumb


So much blood, so little change


And they are still rioting today, but not about the monarchy

I find it hard to believe that Quebec is ridiculous. Especially when you speak of underage gambling and drinking.

I mean, who is ridiculous? I say it'S the one who expect you to wait until you're 21 to drink but lets you have a gun at 18. Believe me, if I have a gun, I can get alcohol, try and stop me.

You'll have to explain why you think we're ridiculous. Please.

If you stand outside a liquor store for ten minutes you can get alcohol. No point in doing wipping out your gun. That would be illegal and you might get arrested.

Wait, where in the country is it 21?

OK fine i take it back

But u have to admit that the French cut of so much heads cause they wanted to rid their king only to have another one later is very dumb


So much blood, so little change


And they are still rioting today, but not about the monarchy

Meh everywhere has its problems and i'd say that in bold could be said of many countries

oh but the french are special

they did it twice

Republic, the emperor Bonabarte, then president Bonabart then Bourbon King then Republic. Stupid

Wait, where in the country is it 21?

There isn't anywhere in Canada that you have to wait until you're 21 to drink. 18 in Quebec and 19 in the rest of the country. Unless it's changed recently.....

There isn't anywhere in Canada that you have to wait until you're 21 to drink. 18 in Quebec and 19 in the rest of the country. Unless it's changed recently.....

I thought it was 18 in Quebec, Manitoba, Alberta and 19 in BC, Saskatchewan, and Ontario. My apologies to the rest of Canada. By the time I made it there, I was old enough to not be carded.

That's because of a law made to protect the french language (silly, I know). Now, let me tell you about the Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull is dead) relationship:

- If you're drunk, you hate the other side.
- If you're on your side, you try to block, delay and frustrate the other side's drivers (how many time have I seen an Ontario license plate speed by me, change lanes and then roll at 25 km/h in front of me for no reasons...)
- If you're doing business, you love everyone and can switch language anytime.
- If there is 1 english and 5 french, odds are they all will be speaking english unless drunk (see above)
Unless of course you're from Toronto, in which case, all bets are off, and that whole "we hate each other" thing is directed at people from Toronto, and don't even start to explain Hell's Half Acre (aka - Ottawa) to me, I lived there for 12 (miserable) years.

Also, Quebecers when they come to Ontario, seem to forget that we use turn indicators here, and we don't all drive with our heads up our collective ass.

Unless of course you're from Toronto, in which case, all bets are off, and that whole "we hate each other" thing is directed at people from Toronto, and don't even start to explain Hell's Half Acre (aka - Ottawa) to me, I lived there for 12 (miserable) years.

Also, Quebecers when they come to Ontario, seem to forget that we use turn indicators here, and we don't all drive with our heads up our collective ass.

As someone who commutes through Montreal traffic, I have to mention that the use of turn indicators is sporadic at best.

I thought it was 18 in Quebec, Manitoba, Alberta and 19 in BC, Saskatchewan, and Ontario. My apologies to the rest of Canada. By the time I made it there, I was old enough to not be carded.

I'm honestly not sure. All I really know is that it's 19 here (Ontario) and 18 in Quebec. Doesn't really matter to me anyway. I'm well passed the age where I have to worry about being carded.

As someone who commutes through Montreal traffic, I have to mention that the use of turn indicators is sporadic at best.
A nation of drivers who make each other's life unpredictable... No wonder they want to leave Canada! I mean, damn, using turn indicators makes life so boring. :p

Unless of course you're from Toronto, in which case, all bets are off, and that whole "we hate each other" thing is directed at people from Toronto, and don't even start to explain Hell's Half Acre (aka - Ottawa) to me, I lived there for 12 (miserable) years.

Also, Quebecers when they come to Ontario, seem to forget that we use turn indicators here, and we don't all drive with our heads up our collective ass.

I got news for you buddy, it's not only when we go to Ontario. It would seems that indicator are optionnal on Quebec cars.

I got news for you buddy, it's not only when we go to Ontario. It would seems that indicator are optionnal on Quebec cars.
Really? And here I thought you guys did this just to piss us off. :p

Listen, I was nowhere near an idea in my father's mind at the time, but from what was taught me, the english speaking Canadian wanted the french speaking Canadians to enlist to defend the motherland (read UK). At least, that's howit was viewed and why many french canadians were iffy about the deal. Imagine, defend the colonizing power that keep us down.



First, the notion that Canada's involvement in WWII was only about defending Britain is one of those patently false bits of historical revisionism common in Quebec.

Canada declared war on Germany on September 10, 1939. At that point the only country that Germany had invaded was Poland. At that point, the common military assumption was NOT that Germany would conquer most of Europe and directly threaten Britain. Hell, everyone (except the Germans) thought that the MAginot Line would work.

Now, once the war got going and the manpower demands increased - yes, Quebec was asked to join the fight. As was EVERY province. The notion that there was anything special about the request of Quebec is specious at best.


BTW, and not trying to be difficult, but having New France complain about teh evil "colonizing powers" is pretty rich hypocricy. I mean, what the hell was New France?

And by 1939, the notion that the UK was an occupying power keeping Quebec down is even more silly. You would have a more valid case complaining that English Canada was keeping you down than anything related to the UK by then...

So, not saying that this isn't what you were told. Just pointing out that maybe, just maybe, a bit of popularized propoganda has been spoon-fed into you to colour your perceptions of that time.

Listen, I was nowhere near an idea in my father's mind at the time, but from what was taught me, the english speaking Canadian wanted the french speaking Canadians to enlist to defend the motherland (read UK). At least, that's howit was viewed and why many french canadians were iffy about the deal. Imagine, defend the colonizing power that keep us down.

Of course, they fought in France, and of course it was a noble goal. But try to push for anything that would help the UK in Quebec and you'll find stiff resistance.
Whatever. The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of British/Canadian soldiers gave their lives to free France, and not only once but twice. Despite the conceived differences between the English and French in Canada, the fact that so many of them payed the ultimate price to free France from German hands speaks volumes to me. Perhaps this is meaningless to the French but I cannot understand why.

Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.

Getting back to the OP

I suggest that you go google "Harper Firewall Letter" and see what you get.

Stephen has been a staunch proponent of eviscerating federal powers for years, and indeed is cozy with many people in the Alberta seperatist camp. Having the notion of a nation within a nation is exactly up his alley, and I would assume with the expectation that now other provinces (Read as: 'ALBERTA') can request the same distinct status.

And if this becomes the falling of the first domino towards the country polarizing and eventually falling apart on the issue, frankly I don't think that he would lose a minute's sleep over it.

What a large chunk of Quebec wants is almost exactly what Harper wants for Alberta.

Never, ever, for one minute forget that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_population#Listing
If Quebec and BC were dragged along kicking and screaming.
Quebec and BC might be big, but they don't vote as uniformly as Ontario.

The United States wants oil, not Quebec. If we could have our pick, we'd have Alberta and its vast deposits of oil sands.
The oil sands would never have been developed if the EPA had had anything to say about it.

We don't want you screwing up our resources anymore than we want Ottawa doing it.

What?! It is!

...In a good way, I swear. Hey if we didn't have Quebec where would we go for underage gambling and drinking?
Saskatchewan. They have a completely unregulated exotic dancing industry. Anything goes in Saskatchewan strip clubs.

For the drinking you could go anywhere that wasn't Ontario or BC. The entire rest of the country has a lower drinking age than you do.

Pettiest separatist movement, ever.

what about Scotland?

First, the notion that Canada's involvement in WWII was only about defending Britain is one of those patently false bits of historical revisionism common in Quebec.

Canada declared war on Germany on September 10, 1939. At that point the only country that Germany had invaded was Poland. At that point, the common military assumption was NOT that Germany would conquer most of Europe and directly threaten Britain. Hell, everyone (except the Germans) thought that the MAginot Line would work.

Now, once the war got going and the manpower demands increased - yes, Quebec was asked to join the fight. As was EVERY province. The notion that there was anything special about the request of Quebec is specious at best.


BTW, and not trying to be difficult, but having New France complain about teh evil "colonizing powers" is pretty rich hypocricy. I mean, what the hell was New France?

And by 1939, the notion that the UK was an occupying power keeping Quebec down is even more silly. You would have a more valid case complaining that English Canada was keeping you down than anything related to the UK by then...

So, not saying that this isn't what you were told. Just pointing out that maybe, just maybe, a bit of popularized propoganda has been spoon-fed into you to colour your perceptions of that time.

I agree with what you're saying. I'm just telling what I was taught was said in Quebec back in the days and why we weren't happy with the prospect of going to die in europe.

The evil British is as silly as the evil English keeping us down in my book but if spoken from a separatist's point of view, it's still one of the rallying call, no matter how wrong it is. Just like english Canada is fed the notion that we want the federal's money to keep coming in if we separate. It's a silly notion that gets repeated enough that people tend to believe it.

Whatever. The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of British/Canadian soldiers gave their lives to free France, and not only once but twice. Despite the conceived differences between the English and French in Canada, the fact that so many of them payed the ultimate price to free France from German hands speaks volumes to me. Perhaps this is meaningless to the French but I cannot understand why.

I can reassure you that it is not meaningless to the French. It might be seen as less but we still wear our poppies on rememberance day and say thank you to veterans. It's just that Quebec is more against war generally that the rest of Canada. Call it our "French surrender monkey gene", if you will.

Quebec and BC might be big, but they don't vote as uniformly as Ontario.

Sure, BC is about 50 Conservative - 50 NDP. But isn't Quebec like 85-90% Bloc?

Saskatchewan. They have a completely unregulated exotic dancing industry. Anything goes in Saskatchewan strip clubs.

For the drinking you could go anywhere that wasn't Ontario or BC. The entire rest of the country has a lower drinking age than you do.

De jure. In reality, the cop is only going to take it if he thinks he might be thirsty at the end of his shift.

You know, while everyone is getting their panties in twist over the possibility of Quebec separating western Canada will slip quietly away from central and east Canada.

I do love Canada, but the federal government focuses entirely to much time, energy, and money on eastern Canada, themselves, and trying to keep the spoiled brat that is Quebec happy. West and east/central Canada are vastly different. For one, I'm sure that if was up to the provinces to decide whether to be bilingual or not, the western provinces would choose English only as their official language. Another huge sore spot for Albertans is the equalization payments. Apart from Ontario (which is very close to having to receive more money than they are paying), Alberta is the only province currently providing a good chunk of money for equalization payments. B.C. and Saskatchewan are very close to contributing positively to the equalization payments as well.

Alberta produces 98% of Canada's oil and natural gas, B.C. has a booming tourism, movie and television, and advertisement design industry, and is the door to Asian trade, Saskatchewan has undeveloped oil sands in the north, and practically the breadbasket of Canada.

It's not Quebec Ottawa is going to have to worry about, it's western Canada.

here's some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_alienation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Canada_Concept
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Separatism
http://www.freealberta.com/
http://www.projectalberta.com/
http://www.separationalberta.com/

oh, and as for the OP, Quebec is practically an independant nation already; they've got their own immigration office and rules, they decide what they do with federal money to a large degree anyway, among other things.

~Censors from the Government~
Shut up! If the feds hear about this they might *gulps* start muking up our politics. If that happens, Llewdor and I may have to kill you.

Of course I mean that in the nicest may possible. But our master plan is to slowly slide away until we are disconnected enough from Ottowa, that they cannot reclaim us when they find out about this.

Shut up! If the feds hear about this they might *gulps* start muking up our politics. If that happens, Llewdor and I may have to kill you.

Of course I mean that in the nicest may possible. But our master plan is to slowly slide away until we are disconnected enough from Ottowa, that they cannot reclaim us when they find out about this.

Oh please, CSIS is too busy hunting defunct FLQ members :p

And since when has Ottawa listened to anything coming out of the west?

Oh please, CSIS is too busy hunting defunct FLQ members :p

And since when has Ottawa listened to anything coming out of the west?

The building of the CP Rail?

Hopefully it is the last time too.

Sure, BC is about 50 Conservative - 50 NDP. But isn't Quebec like 85-90% Bloc?
But the Bloc can't win, so it's like an abstention.

And BC is about 50% Conservative, and the rest splits pretty evenly between the Liberals and the NDP (the rest being greater Vancouver and Victoria - the interior votes Tory).

But the Bloc can't win, so it's like an abstention.

And BC is about 50% Conservative, and the rest splits pretty evenly between the Liberals and the NDP (the rest being greater Vancouver and Victoria - the interior votes Tory).

We had a map hanging in my Law class from the Province, and it appeared that thele wasn't any liberal reps elected.

Edit:Wiki's the results from 2006. Libs got 9 when the NDP got 10.

First, the notion that Canada's involvement in WWII was only about defending Britain is one of those patently false bits of historical revisionism common in Quebec.

Canada declared war on Germany on September 10, 1939. At that point the only country that Germany had invaded was Poland. At that point, the common military assumption was NOT that Germany would conquer most of Europe and directly threaten Britain. Hell, everyone (except the Germans) thought that the MAginot Line would work.


Yeah, quite true, though I would argue that whilst the declaration of war in September 1939 wasn't about protecting Britain, it was all about Imperial Unity and Loyalty - helping out the Motherland in her own struggles, in the name of King, Country and Empire.
In that sense you can see why the Quebecois may resent fighting for a cause that benefited the British, as was the case in the First World War. Of course the situation changed dramatically in 1941, but Canada was already committed to a war for British interests.

It seems the discussion have gotten side tracked.
Whatever history may be, Canada is as Canada is now.
And the question is- should Quebec be recognized as a nation?

To recognize Quebec, or alternatively, to recognize French Canadians, as a nation within Canada, while not giving that same recognition to either other provinces or other cultural groups is strictly speaking discrimination against those other provinces or cultural groups.

Let this be the rallying cry for the Commonwealth of Ontario within a United Canada! =P

Let this be the rallying cry for the Commonwealth of Ontario within a United Canada! =P
And for every single First Nation within it! MUAHAHAHAHHAA!!!

And for every single First Nation within it! MUAHAHAHAHHAA!!!

But will it stop there? Or will we have to declare all the cities city-states?

Quebec is bound to Canada, no matter what happens unless they have a Quebec Revolutionary War and shoot the crap out of Canada.

Quebec is bound to Canada, no matter what happens unless they have a Quebec Revolutionary War and shoot the crap out of Canada.

Not really. Our law says they are free to leave if they like.

Not really. Our law says they are free to leave if they like.

The catch is in how you define 'they'.
Cause the thing is, what if Quebec as a whole separates because 51% wanted to leave. Then say, the 49% decide to separate from Quebec and join Canada? Would the Quebecoise Separatist Government even allow that to happen?

The catch is in how you define 'they'.
Cause the thing is, what if Quebec as a whole separates because 51% wanted to leave. Then say, the 49% decide to separate from Quebec and join Canada? Would the Quebecoise Separatist Government even allow that to happen?
It is impossible to tell as Canadian law would have no affect on the new Quebec.

Well in mine mind, Majority wins

So Bring on the riots

Like frig. Why don't all the freaking provinces, territories, states and districts in Canada and the United States of America become independent sovereign nations?!?!!? Eh?! EH?! 2 countries owning up the majority of North America, thats just not right!

Not really. Our law says they are free to leave if they like.

It is impossible to tell as Canadian law would have no affect on the new Quebec.

Would the Canadian Federal gov't have a moral responsibility to protect the interests of that 49% from the separatist majority?
Or is it a strictly majority-rules minority-drools affair?

Like frig. Why don't all the freaking provinces, territories, states and districts in Canada and the United States of America become independent sovereign nations?!?!!? Eh?! EH?! 2 countries owning up the majority of North America, thats just not right!

lol, my thoughts exactly.

Or we could just take the Canadian boarders as they are and try to change things by being a part of the nation rather than being separate from it.

But that would be silly and rational!

Would the Canadian Federal gov't have a moral responsibility to protect the interests of that 49% from the separatist majority?
Or is it a strictly majority-rules minority-drools affair?

Well in caes like this then one may have a standard like only if 70% or higher the of the population want to be seperated

In some cases its tough luck like i think 15% of America wanted to be part of Britian during the revoulution

Not really. Our law says they are free to leave if they like.

Doesn't the Queen have to give them permission or something?

Doesn't the Queen have to give them permission or something?

Did George Washington ask King George III for permission to be free?

Did George Washington ask King George III for permission to be free?

Thomas Jefferson, I think. But there was a formal petition.

Well in caes like this then one may have a standard like only if 70% or higher the of the population want to be seperated

In some cases its tough luck like i think 15% of America wanted to be part of Britian during the revoulution

yeah... tough luck.. as in having to flee north to where it's cold and founding a nation called Canada... *cough*

Yeah, we're a country of conquered peoples and refugees. To Canada, the losers matter, because we are nation of losers.

Thomas Jefferson, I think. But there was a formal petition.

Did you think it worked?



Your Majesty, has a petition of 150 signatures that you release America from your babaric rule!

Dont touch me!! Im made of glass!!!*


*King George III was mad

yeah... tough luck.. as in having to flee north to where it's cold and founding a nation called Canada... *cough*

Yeah, we're a country of conquered peoples and refugees. To Canada, the losers matter, because we are nation of losers.

They did not found anything, Brtish Columbia was there so need for the "cold"and the name Canada, i think thats french.....Ironic isnt it if im correct

Yep, the name Canada comes from the french, And the French speaking Canadians want to leave Canada


I think the rest of Canada should be renamed New Canada cause its the 2nd one

Did you think it worked?



Your Majesty, has a petition of 150 signatures that you release America from your babaric rule!

Dont touch me!! Im made of glass!!!*


*King George III was mad

Apparently it did. After a fact.

Apparently it did. After a fact.

They only got their freedom after driving the british out. Do you really think Britian just release them that easy!!

They only got their freedom after driving the british out. Do you really think Britian just release them that easy!!

There was some french help, I'll grant that.

But my basic point is that doesn't quebec, having the queen as its head of state and all, have to get her permission before being independent?

I mean I don't imagine she'll care all that much. But still, one should observe the consititutional niceties.

If Quebec really wanted very badly to be indepedant, they would had sever all ties with Canada and england proclaim itself a republic and annoucing it to the world in the next 24hrs

They did not found anything, Brtish Columbia was there so need for the "cold"and the name Canada, i think thats french.....Ironic isnt it if im correct
But... you're not correct.

The name Canada comes from the aboriginal word Kanata, meaning 'village'. Not French.

Following the independence of the United States, approximately 50,000 United Empire Loyalists moved to Quebec, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland. As they were unwelcome in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick was carved out of that colony for them in 1784. To accommodate the English-speaking Loyalists in Quebec, the province was divided into francophone Lower Canada and anglophone Upper Canada under the Constitutional Act in 1791.

But... you're not correct.

The name Canada comes from the aboriginal word Kanata, meaning 'village'. Not French.

But..... Kanada was first used to name a French settlement in New France

Oh, yeah. U.S. troops occupying Canada. That could end badly. Alex Trebek suicide bombing the capital? Alanis Morrissette AND Nickelback forcing innocent Americans to listen to their "music!" Somebody please think of the children!!!
Ever read Harry Turtledoves Novel "Eastern Front ...he has the US occuiping Canada...and they can't let go

Link (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/11/22/harper-quebec.html)


Stephen Harper just sunk to a new low in my opinion. I cannot believe he came up with such an idiotic idea of "a nation within a nation". Quebec does not want to be just called a "nation" on the name. They want to be truly seperate, but still get the financial benefits that the federal government is giving Quebec now. Nobody would give Quebec this unless the Bloc Quebecois gets a majority, and that will never happen. But I thought the Tories were better than putting up such a lame solution, if it can even be called one. This is another ones of those screwed up compromises that leaves everybody unhappy.


It'll never happen anyway.

Doesn't the Queen have to give them permission or something?
That is so moronic that it is probably the case. Though the GG probably has the athority to give the Queens permission.

But..... Kanada was first used to name a French settlement in New France
That's because the French didn't know it was a village.

There is a Kanata still in Canada. Kanata is part of Ottawa; the home of the Ottawa Sens.

You just have to keep in mind that it is not neccessarily the Quebec people who want this, it is the Quebec politicians playing games. If they do decide to make Quebec a "Nation Within a Nation" then what is next? Not just in terms of Quebec, but if Quebec gets that then why wouldn't the north get it too? They have their own culture and history. The west has its own culture and history so why wouldn't they be called a nation too? Same goes for the East. :confused: I think that the politicians who proposed this (Ignatieff, mainly) didn't think about the long term.
Also, I'm getting so sick of Quebec threatening to seperate and then the rest of Canada just giving them whatever they ask for. I think that if they try it again we should just let them go. Maybe once they have a taste of living on their own they wouldn't be so happy about it. No Transfer Payments Though:headbang: Oh well, our politicians are messed and anyone who pays attention knows it, I just want to see who the Liberals pick for a leader.....

No Transfer Payments Though:headbang:

This always gets mentioned. What doesnt get mentioned is that yes, Quebec does pay into the transfer program. It just happens that beaurocracies tend to be inefficient in spending, and a lot of what Quebec gets is spent on stupid stuff.

Simplification of their tax situation, along with more control(read less federal strong arming) would result in a stronger economy and better spending confidence.

Any time you simplify a problem, it gets easier to deal with.

By virtue of the fact that they are officially French-speaking, they are already different and stand out from the rest of Canada. They are already, culturally speaking, special. Why have the official title of sovereign nation when you already a nation upon itself. National anthems, flags, boundaries are just mere illusions.

Why have the official title of sovereign nation when you already a nation upon itself. National anthems, flags, boundaries are just mere illusions.

If these things are meaningless why not let them have them?

If these things are meaningless why not let them have them?

I'm not saying they can't have them. But its the need to have a 'national identity', and to stand out that baffles me.