NationStates Jolt Archive

so, I was browsing around Yahoo answers the other day and found this idiotic question


Should My husband work? or divorce him?

I have a fulltime job,we have a 9 month old baby,he takes care of him during the day,by the time I go homeat 5 he goes to his friend's house and come back at 10 PM. He does not pay any bills in the house,besides baby's formula? we do the chores equally

okay first I am like "you are going to divorce your husband for taking care of your kid?!" then I answer all thoughtful-like, about how I take care of my kids and if my husband was saying things like that I would be pissed and that she needs to just talk to him about problems and not be like "oh, I am going to divorce you" all the damn time, because that's not helpful.... and while I was typing my answer (which at the time there were no more) all these idiots answered and I see them after I submit.


"If a man won't work he shall not eat."

"Wow, honey, this guy has it made because you allow him to continue with this behavior! If he had a part-time job that would be ok if he were doing full-time babysitting. He needs to do his part. But he won't unless you insist because you have "enabled" him. This child will need childcare; perhaps he can go to work and you stay home! But then, he can't hang with the homies', right? You created this monster so I guess you'll have to make up your mind if your life would be better with, or without the bum! Godloveya."

"Personally I think men should take care of the woman and the kids. I mean its genetic. When you have kids you dont automatically have childcare too. No one raises children better than thier moms (Unless they are addicts, etc.)"


"Yes, he should get a job. It doesn't matter that he doesn't make as much as you do. He needs to contribute financially to the marriage."

that's just messed up isn't it?

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids, or if I am pissed at the fact that these people think that men can't take care of kids............ I totally don't get the "nobody raises a kid better than their mother" either.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....

I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a freeloader....
Depends, if parent is actually parenting, then no, s/he isn't a freeloader.

I would be curious about the leaves the house from 5 to 10 to spend time with a friend though. That is a bit strange.

If the wife stays home to take care of the kids, it's acceptable..a bit traditional, but acceptable. If the husband does it, he's either a user, a loser, or too lazy to get a job. That's just how it is. The man HAS to work. The man is also judged completely incompetent in raising children. Everything he does is wrong. Only women can raise children. And if they work, we know they're raising the children all by themselves AND doing all the chores, so they're heroic.

Yes, it's ridiculous. But when society liberated women to do "manly" things, they forgot to allow men to do "womanly" things.

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids

Ahhh, but no, see, that only applies to men who stay at home.

Women are perfectly alright to stay at home. It's genetic, you know.

:rolleyes:

Screwy.

I'd have no qualms with being a stay at home dad.

.... I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a freeloader....

Do you mean is not a freeloader?

A parent who stays home all day to care for a child is not a free loader when the child is young or the arrangement is mutually agreed upon by both parties involved. It's more nurturing for a parent to care for the child than a stranger at a daycare centre (even if the person is nice and all).

My mother stayed at home for three years after I was born.

On another note, I like how this Yahoo thing makes NS General seem the pinnacle of sanity. :p

Do you mean is not a freeloader?

uh....yeah, thanks!

Stay home parents aren't freeloaders, as long as they parent properly.
On another note, I like how this Yahoo thing makes NS General seem the pinnacle of sanity. :p
I noticed that too...
Do you think that druggies are in danger of being poisoned by Muslim extremists?
If illegal drugs are produced by Muslim countries, they could add a poison that would have an effect over time or that could be activated by a catalyst at a later date..What do you think?
Um... okay. That's... interesting, guy.

On another note, I like how this Yahoo thing makes NS General seem the pinnacle of sanity. :p
Me too. It's comforting to think we're not the worst there is.
uh....yeah, thanks!

Any time!

And on topic, once the bills are getting paid and the kids are getting taken care of, then what does it matter which parent does which and in what proportion?

On another note, I like how this Yahoo thing makes NS General seem the pinnacle of sanity. :p
How sad. :p

It's nice she helps with the household chores when she comes home from work. Not all working parents do when they have a stay at home spouse.



Depends, if parent is actually parenting, then no, s/he isn't a freeloader.

I would be curious about the leaves the house from 5 to 10 to spend time with a friend though. That is a bit strange.If I had to stay at home with the kids all day I'd want a few hours away too.
But I'm not really a kid person. And five hours seems a bit excessive.

On another note, I like how this Yahoo thing makes NS General seem the pinnacle of sanity. :p
Scary, ain't it? :D

Scary, ain't it? :DBoth scary and strangely calming at the same time, actually.

If I had to stay at home with the kids all day I'd want a few hours away too.
But I'm not really a kid person. And five hours seems a bit excessive.
I can understand needing a time out from the kids, but away from the home? Also timed to be away from his wife as well? That does sound like there's more trouble in that marriage than him just being Mr. Mom.

It's nice she helps with the household chores when she comes home from work. Not all working parents do when they have a stay at home spouse.
yeah, that's what I hear from my friends, hubby seems to do whatever he sees that needs to be done, and doesn't ever try the "but I work all day" crap because he knows that I work all day too..


If I had to stay at home with the kids all day I'd want a few hours away too.
But I'm not really a kid person. And five hours seems a bit excessive.

thats something they need to talk about, I do go out twice a week in the evening, he goes out twice a week in the evening, it's normal to need some alone time, every waking moment can't be spent with the family, it would drive anyone crazy.

And there was me thinking we live in a gender blind society !

And there was me thinking we live in a gender blind society !

why would you want to live in a gender blind society?

why would you want to live in a gender blind society?

I haven't given much thought about it really.
Its just that in the UK where PC is rife I would get called a sexist chauvanistic pig if I were to say that a woman should stay at home then on the other hand women are complaining that all their partners do is stay at home and don't earn a wage. It just anoys me in general

I haven't given much thought about it really.
Its just that in the UK where PC is rife I would get called a sexist chauvanistic pig if I were to say that a woman should stay at home then on the other hand women are complaining that all their partners do is stay at home and don't earn a wage. It just anoys me in general

oh, I am all for equality, it's just something about the phrase "gender blind" that irks me.......

this is pretty close to why my mum is divorcing my dad, except she waited much longer and let herself get all resentful without talking about it with anyone. i wish she'd seen your OP 15 or 20 years ago Smunkee. since before i was born my mum has been the one that worked while my dad was at home cuz he was medically retired from his job. until i was about a year old my parents also had a farm so my dad worked on that but then we moved to jersey and my dad was basically at home looking after me and then my sister and had the odd part time job and did all the stuff round the house that needed doing plus cooking. now for some reason my mum has decided he's been free-loading off her for the last 25 years or so, and so she's divorcing him. i suppose it's because she's got very traditional views and never wanted to be the one working so she imagines that my dad took advantage of his condition to force her to work, but i think she's also just going through a mid-life crisis, so, meh.

oh, I am all for equality, it's just something about the phrase "gender blind" that irks me.......

Ah no just the first phrase that came to mind.

this is pretty close to why my mum is divorcing my dad, except she waited much longer and let herself get all resentful without talking about it with anyone. i wish she'd seen your OP 15 or 20 years ago Smunkee. since before i was born my mum has been the one that worked while my dad was at home cuz he was medically retired from his job. until i was about a year old my parents also had a farm so my dad worked on that but then we moved to jersey and my dad was basically at home looking after me and then my sister and had the odd part time job and did all the stuff round the house that needed doing plus cooking. now for some reason my mum has decided he's been free-loading off her for the last 25 years or so, and so she's divorcing him. i suppose it's because she's got very traditional views and never wanted to be the one working so she imagines that my dad took advantage of his condition to force her to work, but i think she's also just going through a mid-life crisis, so, meh.

that's really sad, I am sorry that you are having to go through that. My father in law stayed home with my husband when he was a kid because he was too sick to work, his wife put herself through school and worked while he stayed home with hubby and her two kids and cooked and cleaned and did everything "a mom used to do" (as he says) he is still pretty old fashioned but he raised my husband to know that a family is a team and we do what needs to be done. One day my husband will be too sick to work and I will go out into the world and he will stay home, it's not a problem for me, and it's not a problem for him.

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids, or if I am pissed at the fact that these people think that men can't take care of kids............ I totally don't get the "nobody raises a kid better than their mother" either.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....

I think part of the issue here is that the original poster cast the father as a freeloader. If she'd framed the situation so that the husband was the primary caregiver, the reactions would have been different. But she basically said her husband was a bum--is it any wonder that the people who responded felt the same way?

I think part of the issue here is that the original poster cast the father as a freeloader. If she'd framed the situation so that the husband was the primary caregiver, the reactions would have been different. But she basically said her husband was a bum--is it any wonder that the people who responded felt the same way?

I didn't really see much evidence that he was one though.....

it's like another question around there that basically says

"my wife doesn't have dinner on the table when I get home from work, I punched her in the face and she still didn't cook, why is she such a bitch?"

just because he casts her as a lazy bitch doesn't mean people will assume she is.

I didn't really see much evidence that he was one though.....

it's like another question around there that basically says

"my wife doesn't have dinner on the table when I get home from work, I punched her in the face and she still didn't cook, why is she such a bitch?"

just because he casts her as a lazy bitch doesn't mean people will assume she is.

Well, conversation on forums isn't generally based on evidence. I mean, look around. ;)

There's a lot more gut reaction, and since we don't know each other in real life, we tend to place a bit more trust in what the other person writes (assuming we're generally sympathetic) as fact. The post you quoted began with the questions "Should my husband work? Or should I divorce him?" That gave off the impression that the woman was unhappy with the situation. There was no "should I be satisfied that he's the primary caregiver of our children?" or "how should I feel about this reversal of traditional family roles?" The subtext was "my husband is a bum--should I toss his ass out on the street?"

So I'm not surprised the reaction was negative--the posters were probably just feeding off the frustration and wanting to sympathize with the poster. It's shallow, but it's the internet. ;)

Should My husband work? or divorce him?

I have a fulltime job,we have a 9 month old baby,he takes care of him during the day,by the time I go homeat 5 he goes to his friend's house and come back at 10 PM. He does not pay any bills in the house,besides baby's formula? we do the chores equally

It's unfair that he just dumps the baby on her as soon as she gets home from work. That's just not on. :mad:

If she is unhappy with her husband and they can't sort things out, then she should think about getting a divorce. She should do what is best for herself. Although I imagine that being a single working mother will be much harder work.

i dont think the problem is that the husband isnt working, its that he cuts out as soon as his wife walks in the door. by the time he gets home, she must be about ready for bed. where is the family time? where is the couple time? the way they are living its serial single parenthood. he is alone with the kids then she is alone with the kids.

you dont get a divorce because your husband or wife isnt making money. you get divorced because your relationship sucks. she might be looking for justification for moving on when she has a small child so she suggests that a non-employed husband isnt worth having but if he were a wonderful husband (for her) she wouldnt consider it.

thats something they need to talk about, I do go out twice a week in the evening, he goes out twice a week in the evening, it's normal to need some alone time, every waking moment can't be spent with the family, it would drive anyone crazy.
They definitely need to communicate. Everyone needs time for themselves; but they don't seem to have any time as a couple. He leaves as soon as she comes home? Doesn't return until 10? When do they talk? When do they spend time together?

It sounds to me like this marriage is in trouble, and it's not because she works and he is a SAHD - it's because the two of them don't (appear to) have much of a relationship with each other.

One day my husband will be too sick to work and I will go out into the world and he will stay home, it's not a problem for me, and it's not a problem for him.

Wait, you know he will be too sick to work? That has to be sad to live like that...

Wait, you know he will be too sick to work? That has to be sad to live like that...

he has a chronic disease with no cure, he will get sicker than he is one day and he eventually will be too sick to work, it's just what will happen.

so, I was browsing around Yahoo answers the other day and found this idiotic question




okay first I am like "you are going to divorce your husband for taking care of your kid?!" then I answer all thoughtful-like, about how I take care of my kids and if my husband was saying things like that I would be pissed and that she needs to just talk to him about problems and not be like "oh, I am going to divorce you" all the damn time, because that's not helpful.... and while I was typing my answer (which at the time there were no more) all these idiots answered and I see them after I submit.



that's just messed up isn't it?

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids, or if I am pissed at the fact that these people think that men can't take care of kids............ I totally don't get the "nobody raises a kid better than their mother" either.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....

I agree with you if the family came to the decision that he was going to stay at home then she has to abide by that. He gave up a career (or potential one) in order to give the best care for her child.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

The sexism in the “Shall not eat” reply by whoever that is , is shocking as well … if one of the parents is willing to stay at home and do the care that is absolutely the best solution possible.

I do have great respect for (generally) the motherly nature that women often have and can see how they can possibly be the best solution at staying home when the child is that young (specially with breast feeding) but still if the woman in the relationship has the best income possibilities and the man is willing to stay home there is NOTHING WRONG with that.

Parent care is always better then day care

The thing about stay-at-home parents is that, by taking care of the children during the day and most likely taking on a bit more of the housework, they are "pulling their weight", as it were, in the relationship. The problem with this guy doesn't seem to be that he is a stay-at-home dad, but that he isn't pulling his weight. He takes care of the child during the day, and the moment the mom gets home, seems to say, "Here!" and runs out the door to go play. She also says that chores are split up evenly between them, so he isn't doing any extra housework. This means that she is working an 8-hr day, then coming home and taking care of the baby by herself until bedtime - all this on top of her half of the chores. She has more responsibility in the relationship than he does.

Of course, the fact that she immediately jumps to "Should I tell him to get a job or divorce him?" is pretty odd. I think the question should be, "How do I tell him that I don't think he is doing his part in our relationship?"

The thing about stay-at-home parents is that, by taking care of the children during the day and most likely taking on a bit more of the housework, they are "pulling their weight", as it were, in the relationship. The problem with this guy doesn't seem to be that he is a stay-at-home dad, but that he isn't pulling his weight. He takes care of the child during the day, and the moment the mom gets home, seems to say, "Here!" and runs out the door to go play. She also says that chores are split up evenly between them, so he isn't doing any extra housework. This means that she is working an 8-hr day, then coming home and taking care of the baby by herself until bedtime - all this on top of her half of the chores. She has more responsibility in the relationship than he does.

Of course, the fact that she immediately jumps to "Should I tell him to get a job or divorce him?" is pretty odd. I think the question should be, "How do I tell him that I don't think he is doing his part in our relationship?"

yeah, it seems like they made a practical decision that isnt working out for them psychologically.

its one thing to realize that the best thing is to have the father stay home and the wife work but another thing totally to have him still feel like "the man" and her not feel like she is working way too much compared to him.

they need marriage councilling if they want to avoid divorce.

i would honestly prefer it if my wife did not have to work. i also wouldnt stop her from working either. i would like her to be able to work only if she wanted to and wouldnt care one bit if she was staying at home all the time. but this is the opposite way of the story.

people seem to look at it differently when its the husband staying at home all the time. its kind of a double standard, where its acceptable for the female to stay at home but not okay for the male to do so.

people seem to look at it differently when its the husband staying at home all the time. its kind of a double standard, where its acceptable for the female to stay at home but not okay for the male to do so.

I would see a woman who watched the baby for 8 hours a day and then ran off to play every night, leaving the rest of the care (as well as the responsibility of an 8-hr. job) to her husband as pretty much the same. The problem here doesn't seem to be that he is a stay-at-home parent. It is more that he isn't pulling his full weight in the relationship. A stay-at-home dad can definitely do this, but from the description, I'd say this one isn't (or at least his wife doesn't think he is).

Both partners in a relationship need to contribute equally. Note: That doesn't mean that they both have to bring in the same (or any) paycheck.

The thing about stay-at-home parents is that, by taking care of the children during the day and most likely taking on a bit more of the housework, they are "pulling their weight", as it were, in the relationship. The problem with this guy doesn't seem to be that he is a stay-at-home dad, but that he isn't pulling his weight. He takes care of the child during the day, and the moment the mom gets home, seems to say, "Here!" and runs out the door to go play. She also says that chores are split up evenly between them, so he isn't doing any extra housework. This means that she is working an 8-hr day, then coming home and taking care of the baby by herself until bedtime - all this on top of her half of the chores. She has more responsibility in the relationship than he does.

Of course, the fact that she immediately jumps to "Should I tell him to get a job or divorce him?" is pretty odd. I think the question should be, "How do I tell him that I don't think he is doing his part in our relationship?"
She sounds like a self-entitled bitch and you believe her on the point "they share chores equally"? I call bullshit. It is obvious from the very lead in of her complaint ("should my husband work or should i divorce him") that she is your average psychobitch and anything she says should be double checked for truth. Jumping straight to "should i divorce him" should set off anyone's "psychobitch radar."

She sounds like a self-entitled bitch and you believe her on the point "they share chores equally"? I call bullshit. It is obvious from the very lead in of her complaint ("should my husband work or should i divorce him") that she is your average psychobitch and anything she says should be double checked for truth. Jumping straight to "should i divorce him" should set off anyone's "psychobitch radar."

And it does. But what she says is all we have to go on. I am discussing the situation as it was put forth because that is all there is up for discussion.

And unless she is flat-out lying, he doesn't sound like a saint himself. There is no way a relationship can work out if he is really spending all of the time they might spend together with someone else.

She sounds like a self-entitled bitch and you believe her on the point "they share chores equally"? I call bullshit. It is obvious from the very lead in of her complaint ("should my husband work or should i divorce him") that she is your average psychobitch and anything she says should be double checked for truth. Jumping straight to "should i divorce him" should set off anyone's "psychobitch radar."

which is probably why he runs off every night. I wouldn't want to hang out with her either.

I think you and I had the same first impression.

I know feminists that would start busting caps over advice like this. The only thing that the man is doing wrong is going to his freinds house for hours when she gets home. Then again, if she uses the word divorce so casually, they probably dont have much of a marriage anyway.

I know feminists that would start busting caps over advice like this. The only thing that the man is doing wrong is going to his freinds house for hours when she gets home. Then again, if she uses the word divorce so casually, they probably dont have much of a marriage anyway.

the sad thing is, that's pretty typical these days, people get married because "they make me happy" and then the first sign of "this isn't peachy" they start in with the divorce talk, after a while it's no longer shocking (which is what they intended) and it becomes accepted.

the sad thing is, that's pretty typical these days, people get married because "they make me happy" and then the first sign of "this isn't peachy" they start in with the divorce talk, after a while it's no longer shocking (which is what they intended) and it becomes accepted.

That's becoming less of an issue as time goes on, however, because fewer and fewer couples are getting married, which is a good thing in my view. Too many people get married because they're "supposed to" when they really don't want to or because they're pushed into it by family or religion and don't have the strength of will to say no. I never should have gotten married when I did, and it's no surprise that it ended. The real surprise was that my marriage lasted as long as it did.

That's becoming less of an issue as time goes on, however, because fewer and fewer couples are getting married, which is a good thing in my view. Too many people get married because they're "supposed to" when they really don't want to or because they're pushed into it by family or religion and don't have the strength of will to say no. I never should have gotten married when I did, and it's no surprise that it ended. The real surprise was that my marriage lasted as long as it did.

Oh, great! That'll be how gay people get to marry, when no one else wants to. "Married? How ... 20th century."

I did read yesterday somewhere - MSNBC, maybe - that 40% of babies born in the US are born out of wedlock.

the sad thing is, that's pretty typical these days, people get married because "they make me happy" and then the first sign of "this isn't peachy" they start in with the divorce talk, after a while it's no longer shocking (which is what they intended) and it becomes accepted.

And the really sad thing is that, unless this woman is either lying or leaving out some pretty important information, neither partner is committed to the relationship. Maybe she is a psycho hosebeast and maybe he is running away to his friend's house to avoid her, but that means he isn't working on the relationship. He isn't addressing his issues with her. Maybe she does feel slighted, like she is doing more for their family than he is, but she would apparently rather vent that on yahoo than sit down and discuss it with him.

That's becoming less of an issue as time goes on, however, because fewer and fewer couples are getting married, which is a good thing in my view. Too many people get married because they're "supposed to" when they really don't want to or because they're pushed into it by family or religion and don't have the strength of will to say no. I never should have gotten married when I did, and it's no surprise that it ended. The real surprise was that my marriage lasted as long as it did.

I agree, now if we could convince them not to have children and drag them through the drama things might be better still.


I saw way too many couples when I was counseling that said just about the same thing

"we had been dating for like a long time, so we decided to get engaged I mean why date if it's not going anywhere and then after a while we figured that we were engaged and we should get married"

they didn't really have a reason other than that for getting married and when it fell apart they didn't know why, they just assumed they had "changed" and that they were "in different places" only they never could explain to me what place they were in.

And the really sad thing is that, unless this woman is either lying or leaving out some pretty important information, neither partner is committed to the relationship. Maybe she is a psycho hosebeast and maybe he is running away to his friend's house to avoid her, but that means he isn't working on the relationship. He isn't addressing his issues with her. Maybe she does feel slighted, like she is doing more for their family than he is, but she would apparently rather vent that on yahoo than sit down and discuss it with him.

as far as I am concerned it's her fault with what's happening now, if she has a problem it's her responsibility to sit down and talk to him, going around threatening divorce and whining and making him out to be the bad guy is very immature. I get the feeling from reading what little she wrote that conversations in that house are so one sided and manipulative that no communication goes on at all, if a man doesn't want to be at home there is a reason and this time it looks to me like she might be it.

as far as I am concerned it's her fault with what's happening now, if she has a problem it's her responsibility to sit down and talk to him, going around threatening divorce and whining and making him out to be the bad guy is very immature. I get the feeling from reading what little she wrote that conversations in that house are so one sided and manipulative that no communication goes on at all, if a man doesn't want to be at home there is a reason and this time it looks to me like she might be it.

So he bears no responsibility in the relationship? It's perfectly acceptable if his solution to a bad relationship is to run away and avoid it, but not ok for her solution to be to end it?

Relationships are a two-way street. If there is a problem, it is the responsibility of both to work on it.

I agree, now if we could convince them not to have children and drag them through the drama things might be better still.


I saw way too many couples when I was counseling that said just about the same thing

"we had been dating for like a long time, so we decided to get engaged I mean why date if it's not going anywhere and then after a while we figured that we were engaged and we should get married"

they didn't really have a reason other than that for getting married and when it fell apart they didn't know why, they just assumed they had "changed" and that they were "in different places" only they never could explain to me what place they were in.I've seen it happen myself to people in my peer group. They got married because it was the next thing. I don't blame them for doing it, though, because that's what our society has decided is the proper thing for us to do. I certainly wouldn't feel the way I currently do about it if I hadn't gone through it once before. I've been in a relationship now longer than I was married, and we have no plans to get married. (Although her parents say we're the most married couple they know.) Because in the end, what's important is that two people want to be together--paper or not.

The divorce rate doesn't bother me, though, and I'll tell you why. For starters, anything that devalues marriage as a necessity is a good thing in my eyes. I'm not saying that marriage is bad--just that it shouldn't be looked at as the end-all of relationships. We waste so much emotion and energy fighting over the "sanctity" of marriage that I'd just as soon it were looked at as any other contract. Secondly, while it may seem high, it's stable, and what that means to me is that fewer people are staying in bad relationships. Fewer women stay with abusive husbands, and fewer men stay with abusive wives, and I think that's a positive thing.

So he bears no responsibility in the relationship? It's perfectly acceptable if his solution to a bad relationship is to run away and avoid it, but not ok for her solution to be to end it?

Relationships are a two-way street. If there is a problem, it is the responsibility of both to work on it.

true, but if she's not going to sit down and talk to him about it, it's her fault that it continues.

he has responsibility, if she isn't going to do anything about her own unhappiness though, it's really her own fault.

true, but if she's not going to sit down and talk to him about it, it's her fault that it continues.

And if he isn't going to sit down and talk to her about whatever might be bothering him, it's his fault that it continues.

he has responsibility, if she isn't going to do anything about her own unhappiness though, it's really her own fault.

And the same goes for him. And since they are married, they should both be interested in the other's happiness as well.

And if he isn't going to sit down and talk to her about whatever might be bothering him, it's his fault that it continues.



And the same goes for him. And since they are married, they should both be interested in the other's happiness as well.

he is going to continue to do what he wants until she speaks up, that's my point.

I can't control my partner, all I can control is myself, if I am unhappy it's my fault.

Pretty weird indeed. A sign evolution is much slower then we think. Everybody agree Man should take a bigger part in raising the children but society hardly give us responsibility. An easy example would be the child guard which most of the time will be attributed to the women in divorce case...

As for the "she want to dump him" part

he takes care of him during the day,by the time I go home at 5 he goes to his friend's house and come back at 10 PM

I have no trouble to believe it.

he is going to continue to do what he wants until she speaks up, that's my point.

Then their marital problems are most likely just as much his fault as hers.

I can't control my partner, all I can control is myself, if I am unhappy it's my fault.

No, you can't control your partner. But, if you are unhappy, it will most likely take concessions from both of you to correct that. And the same would go for your husband. If you tell him that something is bothering you - something he does - and he makes no move to rectify it, then whose fault is it that you are unhappy with the situation? Still just you?

The point is that this isn't a one-person thing. If their marriage is falling apart, and neither is doing anything to save it, then both are at fault. Not just one of them.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....

A stay at home parent is one of the most important jobs in the world. My wife was a stay at home mom and did a damn fine job at raising our kids as well as 1/2 the kids in the neighborhood. My daughter-in-law has also been a stay at home mom and done a wonderful job of raising a 13 and an 11 year old.

Both my son and I were in the military and didn't make a hell of a lot of money. It was tough at times and the kids didn't always get everything they wanted, but they always got everything they needed.

Someone was at home to ask them how their day was at school. Someone was always there for them to talk to and share their joys and sorrows. It is a great job wether mom or pop does it. I'd like to see more stay at home parents. I think the kids and the world would be better off for it.

My hat is off to you Smunkeeville and all the other stay at home parents out there. Keep up the good and important work of raising your children. :fluffle:

No, you can't control your partner. But, if you are unhappy, it will most likely take concessions from both of you to correct that. And the same would go for your husband. If you tell him that something is bothering you - something he does - and he makes no move to rectify it, then whose fault is it that you are unhappy with the situation? Still just you?

The point is that this isn't a one-person thing. If their marriage is falling apart, and neither is doing anything to save it, then both are at fault. Not just one of them.

If he refuses to change and she refuses to accept that, it's her fault that she is unhappy, yeah.

If he refuses to change and she refuses to accept that, it's her fault that she is unhappy, yeah.

This statement completely ignores the very idea of marriage. You have just turned a relationship into a one-person endeavor, rather than a two-person one.

This statement completely ignores the very idea of marriage. You have just turned a relationship into a one-person endeavor, rather than a two-person one.

I refuse to try to manipulate my husband, if we can come to a compromise on something that's great, but I am who I am and he is who he is and neither of us can change the other, part of being married is compromise, another part is accepting your partner for who they are and being supportive of them. I am the keeper of my own emotional health, if I am unhappy it's my fault.

I refuse to try to manipulate my husband, if we can come to a compromise on something that's great, but I am who I am and he is who he is and neither of us can change the other, part of being married is compromise, another part is accepting your partner for who they are and being supportive of them. I am the keeper of my own emotional health, if I am unhappy it's my fault.

But you are removing all responsibility from the man in this case - all compromise from the issue. You are basically saying, "If he's a total asshole to her, it's her fault she's unhappy with that." The truth of the matter, in anything even resembling a healthy marriage, is that she should try and understand why he feels the need to run out every night and he should try and understand why she feels that he should stay home. He should make an effort to be around more and she should make an effort to accept that he won't always be there because she wants him to. If either do not do their part to fix the situation, then both are at fault for it, not just one.

I'm sorry, but it was not my mother's fault when my father's actions were ruining their marriage and she couldn't save it no matter what she did. It was his, because he refused to even consider that he might need to make an effort to keep their relationship together. By your logic, she should have just accepted that he was a lying, cheating alcoholic who brought coworkers home and got into fistfights with them in front of her children. Since she didn't accept it, it is totally her fault that she was unhappy and totally her fault that their marriage dissolved. :rolleyes:

But you are removing all responsibility from the man in this case - all compromise from the issue. You are basically saying, "If he's a total asshole to her, it's her fault she's unhappy with that." The truth of the matter, in anything even resembling a healthy marriage, is that she should try and understand why he feels the need to run out every night and he should try and understand why she feels that he should stay home. He should make an effort to be around more and she should make an effort to accept that he won't always be there because she wants him to. If either do not do their part to fix the situation, then both are at fault for it, not just one.
from what I can tell she isn't talking to him, she is saying "either he gets a job and quits hanging out with his friends or I am leaving" none of that says that she is even trying to understand why he is going out, or that she is going to talk to him about it, it says "I am going to give him a choice and he better choose what I say or I quit" that's not anything resembling a grown up attitude to me.

I'm sorry, but it was not my mother's fault when my father's actions were ruining their marriage and she couldn't save it no matter what she did. It was his, because he refused to even consider that he might need to make an effort to keep their relationship together. By your logic, she should have just accepted that he was a lying, cheating alcoholic who brought coworkers home and got into fistfights with them in front of her children. Since she didn't accept it, it is totally her fault that she was unhappy and totally her fault that their marriage dissolved. :rolleyes:
she could have accepted that he was that way and decided that he wasn't going to change and decided to leave.

I blame my mom for staying in an abusive relationship almost as much as I blame my dad for beating the crap out of her. He was wrong. She didn't do anything about it, she stayed, she let him beat us, she didn't care enough to leave, all she did was hang around and bitch about how unhappy she was, and when I would suggest that she leave she would say "but he is my life"

I don't need that, I don't need a man to make me happy, I don't need a man to be my life. If I am unhappy I figure out why, if I can change it I do, if I can't I accept it and do what it takes to make things better.

Well, I'm single so my opinion may be discredited but I still want to speak....

Just yesterday, one of my roommates who just had a baby girl less than 2 weeks ago, is inquiring about day care so she can go back to work. In her case she's gonna have help paying the daycare center she eventually will choose. I seen the prices and I told her, this is exactly why if I get married, and that's a big IF, and she were to get pregnant she myaswell stay at home for the price they want. It's outragious. If she wanted to work. she'd being working to come up with the Day Care's money. So what would the point be, I'd ask her to stay at home. I might suggest to get a p/t job to help with the groceries but to get a flexible one, so that she wouldn't feel like a prisoner in her own home. Just my thoughts...... I frankly enjoy my Freedoms of Singledom....

from what I can tell she isn't talking to him, she is saying "either he gets a job and quits hanging out with his friends or I am leaving" none of that says that she is even trying to understand why he is going out, or that she is going to talk to him about it, it says "I am going to give him a choice and he better choose what I say or I quit" that's not anything resembling a grown up attitude to me.

I didn't say she was doing her part. I simply pointed out that he doesn't appear to be doing his either. In fact, if you go back to my post on the subject, you will clearly see that I said that it is sad that neither seems to be working on the relationship. Notice the emphasis on both throughout all of my posts, whereas you seem to want to blame one.

she could have accepted that he was that way and decided that he wasn't going to change and decided to leave.

....which, after trying to reason with him and help him through his addiction, is precisely what she did. Now, whose fault was it that the marriage didn't work out?

Caring for children is definitly not an easy job, and probably one of the most worthwhile jobs you can have. Of course, if you're not putting any effort into it then it's different, but then it's not really caring for your children or doing any parenting.

There could be certain things this husband does that are wrong, or things about the relationship (such as have been mentioned) which aren't good etc etc, but the fact that he stays at home to look after his children is definitly not a negative thing in any way.


Funny, me and Huw were talking about a similar thing just this evening. He'd be perfectly happy to be a stay-at-home-dad (and i'd be perfectly happy to be a stay-at-home-mum) and it just depends on how things would work out for the both of us and what would be best in the situation. We'd both have equally vital, equally respected roles. What each gender is supposed to do isn't an issue to us, and we both recognise how important various roles would be. (All hypothetically presuming we end up together etc of course, but talking about future is good)

I didn't say she was doing her part. I simply pointed out that he doesn't appear to be doing his either. In fact, if you go back to my post on the subject, you will clearly see that I said that it is sad that neither seems to be working on the relationship. Notice the emphasis on both throughout all of my posts, whereas you seem to want to blame one.

I blame her for her own unhapiness. the marriage is messed up because they both have issues, but if she is unhappy it's her fault. Someone who blames their emotions on other people will never be happy. I blame her for the current situation only because she would rather whine than do something, he is to blame for his actions just as much as she is to blame for her inaction.


....which, after trying to reason with him and help him through his addiction, is precisely what she did. Now, whose fault was it that the marriage didn't work out?
both.

so, I was browsing around Yahoo answers the other day and found this idiotic question




okay first I am like "you are going to divorce your husband for taking care of your kid?!" then I answer all thoughtful-like, about how I take care of my kids and if my husband was saying things like that I would be pissed and that she needs to just talk to him about problems and not be like "oh, I am going to divorce you" all the damn time, because that's not helpful.... and while I was typing my answer (which at the time there were no more) all these idiots answered and I see them after I submit.



that's just messed up isn't it?

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids, or if I am pissed at the fact that these people think that men can't take care of kids............ I totally don't get the "nobody raises a kid better than their mother" either.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....


What's even worse is that if she were to divorce him, she would get custody of the kids, no questions asked - First, she's the mom, second, she has the higher projected income, third she has a steady job already. You would never see a court order her to pay upkeep to her husband, who as a result of his extended absence from the job market while he looked after the kids, will struggle to get good employment.

I don't necessarily believe that the stay at home parent is automatically the best person to raise the child, nor do I believe that upkeep is unreasonable in a lot of circumstances, but I do believe you should treat a working mom the same as a working dad, and a stay-at-home mom the same as a stay-at-home-dad.

Ah, Smunkee and Dempublicents1?

To this outside observer, you're both saying the same thing. You're both saying that the husband and wife both potentially need to compromise, you're both saying they need to communicate more, and you're both saying that if the husband refuses to compromise, it's up to her to get out of the relationship if she can't accept his position.

As far as I can tell, you're just phrasing it differently.

I was a stay-at-home parent for quite some time as well, mostly because I did not trust somebody else to be responsible for my child's well-being. Too many horror stories about irresponsible caregivers on the news. It is a very hard job -perhaps one of the hardest- and I understand the dad's need to get out and relax. She should truly appreciate that he is willing to take care of their child, as long as he is actually taking care of the child as other people have said.

I know this has already been mentioned, but I'm seeing the subject in a different light. She works, comes home to take care of the child, and does chores. He takes care of the child and does chores. Sounds unfair, right? My problem with this is that she should take care of her child as well. She is just as bad as any man who says, "I work, I pay the bills, you take care of the child." The child needs to be cared for by both parents. It's not a one-person responsibility in any way. So that argument is out the door as far as I am concerned.

If the problem is that her husband takes off, they should compromise. Taking off to get some down time probably keeps him sane. Maybe he could take off for a smaller time frame or they could switch days. He stays home for a night while she takes off with her friends because she most assuredly needs down time, too. If the issue is time spent together, which it doesn't seem to be because she never mentioned it, it needs to be adressed.

The solution of divorce is pathetic. She is lucky to have a guy willing to do the stay-at-home/parenting gig and she is taking her husband for granted.

both.

That is utterly ridiculous.

Well, I'm single so my opinion may be discredited but I still want to speak....

Just yesterday, one of my roommates who just had a baby girl less than 2 weeks ago, is inquiring about day care so she can go back to work. In her case she's gonna have help paying the daycare center she eventually will choose. I seen the prices and I told her, this is exactly why if I get married, and that's a big IF, and she were to get pregnant she myaswell stay at home for the price they want. It's outragious. If she wanted to work. she'd being working to come up with the Day Care's money. So what would the point be, I'd ask her to stay at home. I might suggest to get a p/t job to help with the groceries but to get a flexible one, so that she wouldn't feel like a prisoner in her own home. Just my thoughts...... I frankly enjoy my Freedoms of Singledom....

There are a lot of options ... sometimes a bit harder on the marrige but they are there.

My mom just worked evenings or nights (she is a nurse) my dad worked days. Was rare to spend a whole day in daycare if at all. Both worked, we were very comfortable as far as income was concerned with this arrangement

That is utterly ridiculous.

why?

why?

Because one of them did everything in her power to save their marriage. She worked at the relationship as much as humanly possible and chose to dissolve it only when it was unhealthy for everyone involved and she knew that he would not do his part.

The other, by his very actions, tore it apart, with no effort whatsoever made to work at the relationship.

To claim that they were both responsible for the fact that the relationship failed is completely ludicrous.

Because one of them did everything in her power to save their marriage. She worked at the relationship as much as humanly possible and chose to dissolve it only when it was unhealthy for everyone involved and she knew that he would not do his part.

The other, by his very actions, tore it apart, with no effort whatsoever made to work at the relationship.

To claim that they were both responsible for the fact that the relationship failed is completely ludicrous.

no relationship is black and white, there are grey areas, all parties are at least partially responsible for the relationship, he may own far more grey area than she does........but to say that she was perfect and he was an ass isn't fair to anyone.

no relationship is black and white, there are grey areas, all parties are at least partially responsible for the relationship, he may own far more grey area than she does........but to say that she was perfect and he was an ass isn't fair to anyone.

I'm not saying she was perfect. I'm saying that she actually tried. One cannot expect any person to do more than they are capable of. If they had both tried, and the marriage had still failed, no one would have been at fault. It simply would have been an unfortunate occurrence. However, since he would not even make an effort, and it was his actions that endangered all of us and left each of our relationships with him broken, I'd say the fault is pretty clear here.

If you and I were trying to haul up a basket of supplies over a wall with rope, we might not have the strength to do it, even combined. But if we were both holding onto the rope, pulling the stuff up, and you let go and stepped back, I can pretty clearly say that it's your fault when I can't hold the stuff up and it all falls to the ground.

I'm not saying she was perfect. I'm saying that she actually tried. One cannot expect any person to do more than they are capable of. If they had both tried, and the marriage had still failed, no one would have been at fault. It simply would have been an unfortunate occurrence. However, since he would not even make an effort, and it was his actions that endangered all of us and left each of our relationships with him broken, I'd say the fault is pretty clear here.
a relationship doesn't get to the failing point from nowhere. I don't agree that it would be "nobody's fault" if they both tried and failed though, it would still be both of their fault....

If you and I were trying to haul up a basket of supplies over a wall with rope, we might not have the strength to do it, even combined. But if we were both holding onto the rope, pulling the stuff up, and you let go and stepped back, I can pretty clearly say that it's your fault when I can't hold the stuff up and it all falls to the ground.
interesting......I think we can agree to disagree.

that's just messed up isn't it?

Yup. But that's society for you.

so, I was browsing around Yahoo answers the other day and found this idiotic question




okay first I am like "you are going to divorce your husband for taking care of your kid?!" then I answer all thoughtful-like, about how I take care of my kids and if my husband was saying things like that I would be pissed and that she needs to just talk to him about problems and not be like "oh, I am going to divorce you" all the damn time, because that's not helpful.... and while I was typing my answer (which at the time there were no more) all these idiots answered and I see them after I submit.



that's just messed up isn't it?

I don't know if I am so offended because I stay at home and apparently people think I am "freeloading" by taking care of my kids, or if I am pissed at the fact that these people think that men can't take care of kids............ I totally don't get the "nobody raises a kid better than their mother" either.

I am pretty frustrated at this point because you can't debate over there, so if anyone has an intelligent opinion here, share it, I would love to know that I am not the only one who thinks that a parent who stays home is a NOT freeloader....
First off, one thing I noticed was that the woman said she and her husband "do the chores equally." (You had it in one of your quoted paragraphs.)

Maybe this is just me, but I would not be okay with "sharing the chores equally" if I was the sole breadwinner for the family. If I was going to have to take on the entire financial burden for the family, then I would expect that to be taken into consideration when housework needed to be done. Of course, I also wouldn't feel comfortable being in a relationship where I was the sole breadwinner, so it's kind of moot in my case.

However, I think it is very interesting at how hostile people are to the idea of men taking on the role of parent and housekeeper. It just goes to show you how much people look down on "women's work," because this work is seen as inherently debased and unworthy. "Real men" wouldn't be doing that kind of crap, right? How could anybody respect the kind of weak, pathetic womanish fool who does that stuff?

A lot of people seem unable to be in relationships that are not heirarchical. They've always got to have one person being dominant while another submits, and this gets all muddled in with their odd-ball gender notions. Relationships are a constant battle over who gets to "wear the pants" or "be the man" in the relationship, because lord knows nobody wants to end up being "the woman."

I'm far too lazy to bother with any of that. My partner is my equal, so it's very easy for us to work out who needs to do what. We each need to have a job, we each need a paycheck, and we each need to do 50% of the chores around the house. Instead of trying to sort out who gets to be in charge and who has to do the dishes, we just each wash out our own damn dishes and go play videogames. Much less effort required this way.

First off, one thing I noticed was that the woman said she and her husband "do the chores equally." (You had it in one of your quoted paragraphs.)

Maybe this is just me, but I would not be okay with "sharing the chores equally" if I was the sole breadwinner for the family. If I was going to have to take on the entire financial burden for the family, then I would expect that to be taken into consideration when housework needed to be done. Of course, I also wouldn't feel comfortable being in a relationship where I was the sole breadwinner, so it's kind of moot in my case.


why would you not share in the chores equally? My husband works outside the home, I work inside the home, we both help keep the house cleaned and organized.

I don't understand why that line is drawn, you know the "but you stay home all day so be my slave" thing that people do.

why would you not share in the chores equally? My husband works outside the home, I work inside the home, we both help keep the house cleaned and organized.

I don't understand why that line is drawn, you know the "but you stay home all day so be my slave" thing that people do.
I suppose we have to be careful about how we define "work inside the home."

My partner is currently engaged in some free-lance writing projects which may or may not lead to a career where he physically works at home. If that becomes the case, I will respect his career just as I would if he left home each morning to go to the office or something. I wouldn't expect him to do additional chores simply because he remains inside our home for more hours, though he obviously will have to clean up after his own messes around the house more (since he'll have more hours to create the messes).

However, if we had a set up where I provided 100% of the income for the two of us, then I would expect him to contribute in a way that balanced things out. If I am having to go to work and earn money all day while he does not work, then I will expect him to commit equal time to maintaining our life together in some other arena. Pretty much all we have to worry about is paying bills and doing chores, so if I'm paying the bills then he is doing the chores.

I don't see that as making him my "slave," any more than I would be his "slave" for going off to work and making money during the day.

I suppose we have to be careful about how we define "work inside the home."

My partner is currently engaged in some free-lance writing projects which may or may not lead to a career where he physically works at home. If that becomes the case, I will respect his career just as I would if he left home each morning to go to the office or something. I wouldn't expect him to do additional chores simply because he remains inside our home for more hours, though he obviously will have to clean up after his own messes around the house more (since he'll have more hours to create the messes).

However, if we had a set up where I provided 100% of the income for the two of us, then I would expect him to contribute in a way that balanced things out. If I am having to go to work and earn money all day while he does not work, then I will expect him to commit equal time to maintaining our life together in some other arena. Pretty much all we have to worry about is paying bills and doing chores, so if I'm paying the bills then he is doing the chores.

I don't see that as making him my "slave," any more than I would be his "slave" for going off to work and making money during the day.


that's not the case here though, here a child is involved, taking care of a child involves a lot more than staring at them, it's work.

In my own case I actually work more hours a week than my husband does, I don't bring in as much money as he does because a lot of the work I do isn't paid for, but I am actually working about 60 hours a week, not including homeschooling and taking care of the house, he understands that and does half the chores, and yet we get his friends who say 'oh, I wouldn't do anything, she stays home all day, she should take care of you'

Back before I had my other projects it was just me home with one kid and he still helped out, because he knew my day was busy.

that's not the case here though, here a child is involved, taking care of a child involves a lot more than staring at them, it's work.

I'm biased by my own life experience, I suppose, because I don't believe it's a good idea to have children staying around the house with one parent. I was in daycare by 3 months old, and I think being in daycare (and, later, in latchkey) was a wonderful experience that has benefitted me in countless ways. I wouldn't want my child staying at home with either me or my partner (if I had a child).


In my own case I actually work more hours a week than my husband does, I don't bring in as much money as he does because a lot of the work I do isn't paid for, but I am actually working about 60 hours a week, not including homeschooling and taking care of the house, he understands that and does half the chores, and yet we get his friends who say 'oh, I wouldn't do anything, she stays home all day, she should take care of you'

Back before I had my other projects it was just me home with one kid and he still helped out, because he knew my day was busy.
Hey, how you balance things with your husband is your call! I'm not remotely suggesting that you should have to structure your life according to my priorities.

I would never be comfortable living the way you and your family do, but I'm guessing you'd be equally uncomfortable living the way I do. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm biased by my own life experience, I suppose, because I don't believe it's a good idea to have children staying around the house with one parent. I was in daycare by 3 months old, and I think being in daycare (and, later, in latchkey) was a wonderful experience that has benefitted me in countless ways. I wouldn't want my child staying at home with either me or my partner (if I had a child).
I am confused......you don't think parents should stay home with their children?

My wife and I both work from home. I can,and often do, anything that needs to be done around the house,with the kids, etc... as needed.

There is no task here that I cant complete. Neither one of us lays around while the other one toils at something. We have three kids and a large piece of property.

If my wife is helping my kids with homework, I start dinner. If she is going to work after dinner, I'll clean up and work with the kids-play, baths, teeth,bed.
We have been together a while and complement each other pretty well.

Nothing here gets left undone because it is someone else's "job".

okay first I am like "you are going to divorce your husband for taking care of your kid?!" then I answer all thoughtful-like, about how I take care of my kids and if my husband was saying things like that I would be pissed and that she needs to just talk to him about problems and not be like "oh, I am going to divorce you" all the damn time, because that's not helpful.... and while I was typing my answer (which at the time there were no more) all these idiots answered and I see them after I submit.
Did you ignore the part of the letter where she would come home at 5 and her husband would leave her until 10 to go to his friend's house?

I mean, I don't care if a guy doesn't work, but if he doesn't work and doesn't do the majority of the housework (yes, staying at home all day means one can do more than split half the housework) and takes off in the evening and never spends time with his wife, then that's a huge problem. I mean, my mom stayed at home, but she also didn't take off as soon as my dad got home and go hang out with her friends until we were in bed.

Did you ignore the part of the letter where she would come home at 5 and her husband would leave her until 10 to go to his friend's house?

I mean, I don't care if a guy doesn't work, but if he doesn't work and doesn't do the majority of the housework (yes, staying at home all day means one can do more than split half the housework) and takes off in the evening and never spends time with his wife, then that's a huge problem. I mean, my mom stayed at home, but she also didn't take off as soon as my dad got home and go hang out with her friends until we were in bed.

I didn't miss that part, I think it's something they should talk about, I just wonder how bad things are at home that he feels he needs to be as far away from her as possible.

. . . if we can come to a compromise on something that's great, but I am who I am and he is who he is and neither of us can change the other, part of being married is compromise, another part is accepting your partner for who they are and being supportive of them. I am the keeper of my own emotional health, if I am unhappy it's my fault.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been trying to find words for this concept for years.

AS for the instanteous case, there is no indication that the aggrived party (the wife) has ever communicated to the offending party (the husband) that she has a problem, ball is in her court to fix her problem. Does her husband even know she is feeling put upon? Can he be at fault if he is content with the realtionship and thinks it is fine? When he does find out she is upset about it, then he has an obligation to at least consider a compromise, but until he knows that she has a problem with their realtionship, he cannot be faulted for her unhappiness. She's unhappy with her situation, she's responsible for changing it.

As for the answer you post, it is just stupid. Offering somone an ultimatum, "get a job or get a divorce", is not a compromise and is not going to lead to one. Very silly actually, a form of "My way or the highway" applied to a realtionship, or as it is sometimes called: slavery. No atttempt at compromise, no attempt to consider the other person as a person, just a simple choice that the husband fufill the wife's demands or the marriage is off.

Any good relationship should be at least 40%-60% both ways, with each partner putting in at most 40% of the effort and recieving at least 60% of the benefit. This works because people are different and have different priorities and different capabilities. Lawn mowing is the simple example, someone who works for $80/hour can pay someone who makes $8/hour a flat $40 to spend an hour mowing his lawn, costing him half as much as he make in the same time while the other person makes 5x as much as he would otherwise make - both get a great deal. Is the lawn owner cheating the mower because he only spends half as much as his time is worth to him? Is the mower cheating the owner because he is charging 5x as much as his time is otherwise worth? If both partners in a relationship are getting more benfit out of it than the effort they put into it, then neither is "freeloading" or taking advantage of the other. Unless your husband is so concerned with money that having his home and children taken care and the pleasure of your company is not worth the monetary cost of your upkeep ( although it would probably cost more money to replace you with paid workers, but that's a seperate argument ) then you are not freeloading or taking advantage of him. Likewise, unless advancing your career and making money is so important to you that the time you "waste" taking care of kids and home is not worth the benefits you recieve from having a nice home and spending time with your kids, then your husband is not freeloading on you and taking advantage of your time.

of course the stay at home parent should do more of the household chores.

what kind of role model are you for your child if all you do is devote your time to them?

there are daytime chores, evening chores and weekend chores. if one spouse works 9-5 then the daytime chores fall on the stay-at-home spouse. (if the employed spouse works evenings then the daytime chores must be split and the evening chores fall on the stay at home spouse)

that might include making the beds, sweeping the floors, doing laundry, making breakfast and lunch, doing dishes, grocery shopping. plus all the day time care, entertainment, playtime and education of the child(ren). the details vary from family to family.

when the employed spouse gets home, its 50/50. both have worked all day. they split the evening chores. these might include laundry, household shopping, making dinner, setting the table and cleaning up afterwards. plus all the evening time care, entertainment, playtime and education of the child(ren). i think the spouse who is out of the house all day should spend more time with the kids than the one who is with them all day.

same with weekend chores and family time.

by the time a child is 3, s/he should be doing household chores of his/her own.

of course each spouse should have some time to themselves and some time together without the children.

thats a lot of stuff to work out but the whole burden of housework should never fall on one person only. the amount of money brought to the family by either spouse is not a consideration but how hard they work is.

so its inappropriate for the wife in this scenario to lord it over her husband because she is making money and he isnt (not that that was suggested), or to suggest that he is less of a man because of it. neither is it appropriate for him to leave her with the whole burden of childcare every evening. in any case, their situation isnt working for them. if either of them isnt willing to work on it, the other might be justified in walking out. its not a matter of "not being happy" its a matter of being left out in the cold with a spouse who doesnt care about the marriage.

of course the stay at home parent should do more of the household chores.

what kind of role model are you for your child if all you do is devote your time to them?

there are daytime chores, evening chores and weekend chores. if one spouse works 9-5 then the daytime chores fall on the stay-at-home spouse. (if the employed spouse works evenings then the daytime chores must be split and the evening chores fall on the stay at home spouse)

that might include making the beds, sweeping the floors, doing laundry, making breakfast and lunch, doing dishes, grocery shopping. plus all the day time care, entertainment, playtime and education of the child(ren). the details vary from family to family.

when the employed spouse gets home, its 50/50. both have worked all day. they split the evening chores. these might include laundry, household shopping, making dinner, setting the table and cleaning up afterwards. plus all the evening time care, entertainment, playtime and education of the child(ren). i think the spouse who is out of the house all day should spend more time with the kids than the one who is with them all day.

same with weekend chores and family time.

by the time a child is 3, s/he should be doing household chores of his/her own.

of course each spouse should have some time to themselves and some time together without the children.

thats a lot of stuff to work out but the whole burden of housework should never fall on one person only. the amount of money brought to the family by either spouse is not a consideration but how hard they work is.

so its inappropriate for the wife in this scenario to lord it over her husband because she is making money and he isnt (not that that was suggested), or to suggest that he is less of a man because of it. neither is it appropriate for him to leave her with the whole burden of childcare every evening. in any case, their situation isnt working for them. if either of them isnt willing to work on it, the other might be justified in walking out. its not a matter of "not being happy" its a matter of being left out in the cold with a spouse who doesnt care about the marriage.

I mostly agree.

I am confused......you don't think parents should stay home with their children?
My experience leads me to believe that it is better for kids to be in daycare than staying at home with their parents. At least in my culture and country and whatnot...I can't speak to how things work in other parts of the world.

Emphasis on the "good," of course. If there is no good daycare or latchkey option available, then I certainly don't think kids should be shoved into shitty programs just to keep them out of the house. If I were going to have/rear children, one of my first priorities would be to make sure I was living in an area where such options were available. I have the luxury of being able to move if I want to, and if I wasn't in an area with good childcare options then I would move.

And, of course, this system also may not apply to special needs children. My kid brother had epilepsy as a baby and ended up with some language and development problems, so he wasn't ready to be in a group daycare setting until he was about 5 years old.

Also, my use of the word "better" from the first sentence of this post is a subjective judgment, based on what I believe to be favorable personality traits, personal strengths, and so forth. In other words, if you wanted to encourage kids to turn into the kind of people I like, then I think it's best to have them in daycare as opposed to staying at home. However, I'll bet serious money that there are a great many people who very much do NOT want kids to turn into the kind of people I like. :D

I didn't miss that part, I think it's something they should talk about, I just wonder how bad things are at home that he feels he needs to be as far away from her as possible.
And I wonder why your first inclination is to ask about "how bad things are at home that he feels he needs to be as far away from her as possible," which carries the assumption that the woman is doing something to cause her partner to act like a child. He's the one not working OR doing housework, AND he chooses to run off with his friends as soon as she's home.

If my boyfriend ran off every night with other people as soon as he got off work (5 pm), I'd be pissed off. If my boyfriend didn't do his share of the housework, I'd be pissed off. I don't see why I should worry about taking responsibility for his lousy choices. If your partner treats you lousy, you shouldn't automatically assume that you've done something to deserve it.

The beef I have with this situation is all that "emasculating" bullshit. It is always (ALWAYS) bullshit to try to cut your partner down for not being a "real man" or "real woman." It is always bullshit to bag on your partner for failing to conform to gender stereotypes. It is always bullshit to try to use their gender-based insecurities as a weapon against them. Man or woman, that shit is juvenile and unworthy of any adult human being.

My experience leads me to believe that it is better for kids to be in daycare than staying at home with their parents. At least in my culture and country and whatnot...I can't speak to how things work in other parts of the world.

Emphasis on the "good," of course. If there is no good daycare or latchkey option available, then I certainly don't think kids should be shoved into shitty programs just to keep them out of the house. If I were going to have/rear children, one of my first priorities would be to make sure I was living in an area where such options were available. I have the luxury of being able to move if I want to, and if I wasn't in an area with good childcare options then I would move.

And, of course, this system also may not apply to special needs children. My kid brother had epilepsy as a baby and ended up with some language and development problems, so he wasn't ready to be in a group daycare setting until he was about 5 years old.

Also, my use of the word "better" from the first sentence of this post is a subjective judgment, based on what I believe to be favorable personality traits, personal strengths, and so forth. In other words, if you wanted to encourage kids to turn into the kind of people I like, then I think it's best to have them in daycare as opposed to staying at home. However, I'll bet serious money that there are a great many people who very much do NOT want kids to turn into the kind of people I like. :D
I am not really entirely sure what you mean by good daycare, there isn't any difference between daycares here, maybe we don't have any good ones, although my fear is that they are typical.

My own experience growing up and seeing things as an adult leads me to believe that kids do better when they aren't in daycare (even though I used to work at one).

I guess that I have other priorities for my kids than most parents do, or maybe mine are the same but I see a different way to get there.

And I wonder why your first inclination is to ask about "how bad things are at home that he feels he needs to be as far away from her as possible," which carries the assumption that the woman is doing something to cause her partner to act like a child. He's the one not working OR doing housework, AND he chooses to run off with his friends as soon as she's home.
he takes care of the child and does housework, no matter what she says about "doing chores equally" the truth is he probably does more than she just because he is home more. The tone I get from her question is pretty much where I get that things suck at home for him.

If my boyfriend ran off every night with other people as soon as he got off work (5 pm), I'd be pissed off. If my boyfriend didn't do his share of the housework, I'd be pissed off. I don't see why I should worry about taking responsibility for his lousy choices. If your partner treats you lousy, you shouldn't automatically assume that you've done something to deserve it.
If my husband ran off every night with other people as soon as he got off work, I would wonder why he felt the need to. If he didn't do his share of the housework I would talk to him about it. I don't understand why she thinks he should do what she wants or divorce him, she is as much to blame for her own unhappiness as he is for his actions.

The beef I have with this situation is all that "emasculating" bullshit. It is always (ALWAYS) bullshit to try to cut your partner down for not being a "real man" or "real woman." It is always bullshit to bag on your partner for failing to conform to gender stereotypes. It is always bullshit to try to use their gender-based insecurities as a weapon against them. Man or woman, that shit is juvenile and unworthy of any adult human being.

I agree. I also hate the tone of control I hear in the question she asked, I worry about someone who relies on other people to make them happy and even more I worry about a mom who is in the habit of 'do what I say or I give up'.

he takes care of the child and does housework, no matter what she says about "doing chores equally" the truth is he probably does more than she just because he is home more. The tone I get from her question is pretty much where I get that things suck at home for him.

We already know that she is taking care of the kid for at least 5 hours a day (since he's not around at all during that time). If we are going to assume she's lying about the housework then I don't know how we can possibly evaluate anything about the scenario, because all we have is what she's saying.

If we choose to at least give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she really is doing the chores, then we have a situation in which she's taking care of the kid 5 hours a day, doing the housework, and bringing in the money. She doesn't mention getting to go out with HER friends at all, since she gets off work and immediately gets the kid dumped on her as her husband runs out the door.

So he is, at best, taking care of a child for 8 hours a day. She does take care of the kid for 3 hours fewer than he does, but she also is taking care of the house and bringing in all the money.

Gee whiz. I guess we'd better take a good hard look at what SHE is doing wrong. And the answer can't possibly be, "He's acting like a jackass and she's putting up with it."


If my husband ran off every night with other people as soon as he got off work, I would wonder why he felt the need to.

I would wonder why he was choosing to do so. You are very quick to assert that the woman is responsible for her own unhappiness, yet you seem ready to blame her for the man's unhappiness. Why is that? Are only women responsible for their own happiness?


If he didn't do his share of the housework I would talk to him about it.

And if he still refused to do it? Do you really think that the woman in this situation has NEVER spoken to her husband about the housework? Sorry, but I just don't think people are that stupid. I'm pretty sure she's mentioned it to him.


I don't understand why she thinks he should do what she wants or divorce him, she is as much to blame for her own unhappiness as he is for his actions.

And he's to blame for his own unhappiness, right? If he's unhappy and wanting to run off at night, he's responsible for that unhappiness in the first place. AND he's responsible for his actions. So it looks like his running off at night is 100% his responsibility and he is 100% to blame.


I agree. I also hate the tone of control I hear in the question she asked, I worry about someone who relies on other people to make them happy and even more I worry about a mom who is in the habit of 'do what I say or I give up'.
I think it's bullshit to pretend that you are 100% responsible for your own happiness. Sorry to put it so harshly, but there it is. Other people DO have the power to impact your happiness, particularly if you are married to them, and if somebody else treats you like shit then it's not your fault for feeling shitty. If your partner acts like an ass to you, it's bullshit for anybody to say that you are "choosing" to feel bad about it. Just like it's bullshit to say that you are "choosing" to feel pain if your partner backhands you.

You can HIDE how you feel about it. You can smile even though it sucks. You can even tell yourself that you deserve it, and that you brought it on yourself, and that maybe if you're really sweet and pretty and nice to him he will stop hurting you. But it won't remotely change the fact that he's acting like an ass, he's hurting you, and he's to blame.

And if the above statements bug anybody or make anybody feel like screaming "MAN HATER!!!!" then you can just go ahead and reverse the pronouns, because it's equally true no matter what genders are involved.

Wow... People are assuming sooooo much from the OP Question when there is little to go on to start with and nothing to back up the assumptions and the question poser offers no clarifications.

Questions I would like to ask the person who gave only one side of the story:

1. Does he go to his friends every night? 3 times a week? Twice a week?
2. Is he home at 10 every time he goes? or is that the later time and he's usually home at 8 or 9?
3. Exactly what chores do you do and what chores does he do? (often the person who does vastly less household chores will still say they do 50:50)
4. What is the kids bedtime? (If the kid is napping by 7pm then is that as much looking after as feeding and changing the kid all day).
5. How will daycare costs compare to the income the husbands potential income?
6. How do you expect he pays for stuff if he does not work? (Imagine a guy divorcing his stay at home wife because she did not pay for the food on the table).
7. Is money an issue? (do you need cash badly enough that you would rather he work nights/evenings once you get home.
8. What is the state of the marriage outside the childcare.
9. Did the two of you agree he should give up his job to look after the kid?

Me too. It's comforting to think we're not the worst there is.

There is far worse out there, mate. There are a lot of forums out there that make NSG look like Plato's Academy.

We already know that she is taking care of the kid for at least 5 hours a day (since he's not around at all during that time).

Bullshit. I call bullshit on the simple fact that if the kid is too young to be going to school, there is no way in fuck it will be up until 10. In fact, most kids in school arn't up that late. At the latest, she is watching the kid for 3 to 3 and a half hours. Maybe less, we don't know when the kid goes to bed, but I wouldn't count on it being 9 or 10.

She doesn't mention getting to go out with HER friends at all,
Of course not, then nobody would pity her and hate her husband. It's the psychobitch game.

but she also is taking care of the house
She probably vacuums on the weekend or some other unspecified bullshit which is alot less severe than how she, and especially you, make it sound.

Probably more like 7.

Bullshit. I call bullshit on the simple fact that if the kid is too young to be going to school, there is no way in fuck it will be up until 10. In fact, most kids in school arn't up that late. At the latest, she is watching the kid for 3 to 3 and a half hours. Maybe less, we don't know when the kid goes to bed, but I wouldn't count on it being 9 or 10.
My brother and I rarely went to bed before 10, though we were supposed to be having "quiet play" after 8 to settle down.

However, even if you want to say the kid is asleep by 10 because it's so young, then you're still going to be left with...NAP TIME! Which knocks a couple hours off the husband's child-care duties, because a sleeping kid is a sleeping kid no matter if he's sleeping during daylight hours or after sundown.

My brother and I rarely went to bed before 10, though we were supposed to be having "quiet play" after 8 to settle down.

However, even if you want to say the kid is asleep by 10 because it's so young, then you're still going to be left with...NAP TIME! Which knocks a couple hours off the husband's child-care duties, because a sleeping kid is a sleeping kid no matter if he's sleeping during daylight hours or after sundown.

Kids don't sleep for a "couple" of hours, maybe 1. And you are still making up excuses with bus sized holes for some obviously egomaniacal woman.
Your brother and you rarely went to bed before 10 when you were younger than 4 or 5?

Kids don't sleep for a "couple" of hours, maybe 1. And you are still making up excuses with bus sized holes for some obviously egomaniacal woman.
Your brother and you rarely went to bed before 10 when you were younger than 4 or 5?

Just ignore the man-hatred, my friend. ;)

Kids don't sleep for a "couple" of hours, maybe 1. And you are still making up excuses with bus sized holes for some obviously egomaniacal woman.

Naptime at my day care programs was minimum 2 hours. My parents usually pushed for three hours. I remember this because I learned to tell time while watching the clock in my bedroom during the interminable naptime hours (during which time I was not required to physically sleep, but was also not permitted to leave my bed or make noise). :D


Your brother and you rarely went to bed before 10 when you were younger than 4 or 5?
Well, I can't remember much of my own baby-hood, but my parents tell me that I slept for fewer than 5 hours at a stretch until I was in kindergarten. When my brother was a baby he usually napped from mid afternoon until dinner and then stayed up until the rest of us went to bed.

Maybe kids are different? I dunno.

At any rate, does it really matter? This all seems like icky-ticky BS to me.

I'm inclined to go with the spirit of what Smunkee has been saying, and say that the fellow in this situation needs to take responsibility for his unhappiness. His wife is working full time and then taking care of the kid as soon as she gets home, and is doing more than her fair share of the housework. He's not working, he's doing less than his share around the house, and he's running off at night instead of spending any time with his wife. If he is unhappy about the situation, he should take the intiative and discuss things with his wife, instead of passive-aggressively shirking his responsibilities and running away from his marriage.

As for the woman being "egomaniacal," the quote I read was simply her saying:

"Should My husband work? or divorce him? I have a fulltime job,we have a 9 month old baby,he takes care of him during the day,by the time I go homeat 5 he goes to his friend's house and come back at 10 PM. He does not pay any bills in the house,besides baby's formula? we do the chores equally"

I don't see where the "egomaniacal" is in that. I think she's asking the wrong questions (should he work, or should they divorce), but that's a whole different problem.

My brother and I rarely went to bed before 10, though we were supposed to be having "quiet play" after 8 to settle down.

However, even if you want to say the kid is asleep by 10 because it's so young, then you're still going to be left with...NAP TIME! Which knocks a couple hours off the husband's child-care duties, because a sleeping kid is a sleeping kid no matter if he's sleeping during daylight hours or after sundown.

Seriously... I think that any couple that tallies up the number of hours the stay at home parent looks after the kid, then subtracts the hours the kid might have been napping, factors in any time while the kid is napping spent doing housework, then compares that to the number of hours the working partner does and expects the stay at home parent to do housework/employment to make up the difference has serious issues...

That said - nap time, real housework sharing, why he stays home, why he leaves, does he go out every night etc, etc are all massive assumptions drawn from two short lines of one side of a story...

The problem is the wife is a psychobitch and as such (1) does not mention anything that would favor her husband, and in fact, probably never has sat back and considered what her husband actually does, all she sees is that she comes home and watches the kid and that her husband does not work. She does not acknowledge what her husband does except keep the baby during the day and get baby formula, and states both of those with a disdain for her husband like they mean nothing. (2)Does not think about the consequences of her actions. Divorce her husband because all he does is watch the baby during the day and do part of the housework? What happens if she divorces him? She has to hire some one to watch the baby either at home or put it in a daycare all day which will both cost a decent chunk of her paycheck and she will have to do all the chores. Though since the legal system leans toward the woman being a poor, abused soul who has never done anything bad and with the spite this bitch holds for her husband, she will probably be able to leach a good bit of money out of him upon divorce but she still will end up having to do all the things she is doing now but x2 because he husband isn't around. She needs to see a fucking therapist, not consult an online forum in order to pad her ego and justify her psychobitch reasoning.

Just ignore the man-hatred, my friend. ;)
It always amazes me how people perceive it as "man-hatred" when I assert that male human beings are capable of functioning as mature adults.

I don't hate men. I don't think men are stupid, or lazy and incompetant by nature. I think men are as capable as women, on average, and are more than able to behave themselves and be wonderful human beings. That's why I expect them to live up to those abilities and behave like grown-ups. I expect no less of men than I do of women.

I think the woman in this situation is handling her shit very badly. She's being a dope about it, and I don't mind saying so, because the whole get-a-job-or-we-divorce thing is just silly. But that doesn't change the fact that her husband is also being a dope, and he needs to get a clue if he wants to have a chance at building a successful marriage (or rearing a marginally-stable child).

I strongly dislike Smunkee's implications that it is the wife's responsibility to worry about the husband's poor tender feelings, while the wife's unhappiness is somehow also all her own responsibility. If women are capable of being responsible for their own happiness, then so are men. Personally, I think a husband and wife share a measure of responsibility to each other, and should acknowledge the power that they have to impact their partner's happiness. But, either way, I believe both should be held to an equal standard.

Seriously... I think that any couple that tallies up the number of hours the stay at home parent looks after the kid, then subtracts the hours the kid might have been napping, factors in any time while the kid is napping spent doing housework, then compares that to the number of hours the working partner does and expects the stay at home parent to do housework/employment to make up the difference has serious issues...

Meh. Simple subtraction isn't much effort, and I tend to suspect that most people do that kind of math in their head whenever they have the feeling they are getting shafted in their relationship.

When I feel like maybe I'm getting the short end of the stick in a given relationship (romantic or otherwise), the first thing I do is look at whether my feelings may be grounded in reality or not. I try to compare the work I'm expected to do with the work expected of the other party, and then I try to see if those expectations are fair considering the type of relationship we're in.

I don't see why it would be unhealthy to do this sort of thing in a romantic relationship. It seems better to me for people to look at the empirical realities of what's going on in their relationship, in addition to addressing the personal feelings that people have about those realities.

That said - nap time, real housework sharing, why he stays home, why he leaves, does he go out every night etc, etc are all massive assumptions drawn from two short lines of one side of a story...
This is true, and I have been trying to present an alternate interpretation to the one that most people seem to jump to (i.e. what a heinous bitch she is, man-hating FTL!!!!).

I guess one could view the original woman's quote as a kind of ink-blot test. It really tells us more about ourselves, based on how we react to the situation. Do we assume the woman is an ego-maniac and a bitch? Do we assume the man is a jackass and a loser? Do we assume both of them are being stupid in their own special ways? (I'm in that last group, for the record.) Kind of fun, I think. :D

It is impossible to judge how much or how little of a jackass the man is because it isn't the man posting.

If we choose to at least give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she really is doing the chores, then we have a situation in which she's taking care of the kid 5 hours a day, doing the housework, and bringing in the money. She doesn't mention getting to go out with HER friends at all, since she gets off work and immediately gets the kid dumped on her as her husband runs out the door.

So he is, at best, taking care of a child for 8 hours a day. She does take care of the kid for 3 hours fewer than he does, but she also is taking care of the house and bringing in all the money.

Gee whiz. I guess we'd better take a good hard look at what SHE is doing wrong. And the answer can't possibly be, "He's acting like a jackass and she's putting up with it."
it is her kid, having a job doesn't exempt her from having to watch it.

if she were to say "I wish my husband was home more so we could hang out" or "I feel a lot of stress and I wish he would help me more right now" is one thing, but for her to say "he doesn't contribute and if he doesn't get a job I will divorce him" tells me much more about what goes on in that house.


I would wonder why he was choosing to do so. You are very quick to assert that the woman is responsible for her own unhappiness, yet you seem ready to blame her for the man's unhappiness. Why is that? Are only women responsible for their own happiness?
you misunderstand. She is not in any way responsible for his unhappiness, she is responsible for her own actions.
You said that if your partner was doing something that made you unhappy (like staying out at night instead of hanging out with you) that you would be pissed, and I said that I would look for ways that I might be contributing to the problem.

And if he still refused to do it? Do you really think that the woman in this situation has NEVER spoken to her husband about the housework? Sorry, but I just don't think people are that stupid. I'm pretty sure she's mentioned it to him.
I believe she has probably whined to him about it, nagged, bitched, been passive agressive, whined to her mom, his mom, her friends, his friends, and then now is at the point where she has nothing else to do but threaten.


And he's to blame for his own unhappiness, right? If he's unhappy and wanting to run off at night, he's responsible for that unhappiness in the first place. AND he's responsible for his actions. So it looks like his running off at night is 100% his responsibility and he is 100% to blame.
yep.


I think it's bullshit to pretend that you are 100% responsible for your own happiness. Sorry to put it so harshly, but there it is. Other people DO have the power to impact your happiness, particularly if you are married to them, and if somebody else treats you like shit then it's not your fault for feeling shitty. If your partner acts like an ass to you, it's bullshit for anybody to say that you are "choosing" to feel bad about it. Just like it's bullshit to say that you are "choosing" to feel pain if your partner backhands you.
I am responsible for my emotional health, I do not let other people dicate to me how i feel, or how i react.

You can HIDE how you feel about it. You can smile even though it sucks. You can even tell yourself that you deserve it, and that you brought it on yourself, and that maybe if you're really sweet and pretty and nice to him he will stop hurting you. But it won't remotely change the fact that he's acting like an ass, he's hurting you, and he's to blame.

abuse is wrong, if someone is abusing you it's because they don't have emotional responsibility in their own life. i would not stay with an abuser, in fact I didn't even marry someone who was emotionally irresponsible because the jump to abuse in people like that is such a short leap that it's dangerous to be in a relationship with them.


It always amazes me how people perceive it as "man-hatred" when I assert that male human beings are capable of functioning as mature adults. there is nothing mature about someone who blames all their unhappiness on others and instead of trying to adjust their own view of the world to see that they might be causing a problem, they decide to bad mouth their life partner and give them a ridiculous ultimatum.

The more I read this, the more I realize how fucking lucky I am.

The more I read this, the more I realize how fucking lucky I am.

you think I am crazy too?

you think I am crazy too?

No- I havent read enough to declare you crazy or not,Smunkee.

But what I have read is wearing me out with division of responsibilty and people doing their share, etc...

Maybe I rule with an iron fist and dont know it ? Things run pretty smoothly around here-we both earn and we both attend to all the needs of the children, house and family. Three kids,PLUS a 92 yr old grandmother with many,many maintenance needs.

No- I havent read enough to declare you crazy or not,Smunkee.

But what I have read is wearing me out with division of responsibilty and people doing their share, etc...

Maybe I rule with an iron fist and dont know it ? Things run pretty smoothly around here-we both earn and we both attend to all the needs of the children, house and family. Three kids,PLUS a 92 yr old grandmother with many,many maintenance needs.

There is a saying that goes around my house "we do what needs to be done" meaning if you see something that needs to be done........do it.

I don't tend to keep track of how much everyone does, I just notice when something isn't done and I do it.

It also means that we don't whine and play the martyr......I never hear from my husband "oh, but I worked all day, I can't mow the lawn" and he never hears from me "I worked 60 hours this week, I can't cook dinner"

you wanna know why?

because we do what needs to be done.

It is impossible to judge how much or how little of a jackass the man is because it isn't the man posting.

True dat.

All this speculation is completely useless. The woman in the question sounds pretty damn stupid and the man may well be, but as in most situations, we hardly know any of the story and cant really comment apart from to talk about general situations.

There is a saying that goes around my house "we do what needs to be done" meaning if you see something that needs to be done........do it.

I don't tend to keep track of how much everyone does, I just notice when something isn't done and I do it.

It also means that we don't whine and play the martyr......I never hear from my husband "oh, but I worked all day, I can't mow the lawn" and he never hears from me "I worked 60 hours this week, I can't cook dinner"

you wanna know why?

because we do what needs to be done.

Then,No- I dont think you're crazy. Thats pretty much how it works around here.

If I go up to get a cup of coffee now and notice my 2 yr old has a dirty diaper, I'll change it. I wont tell my wife it needs to be done.
Like I said- there is nothing here that I cant do. If it needs to be done and I notice it,I do it.

There is stuff I dont LIKE to do- like folding laundry. I'll sort it, turn the clothes right side out, check pockets and fill the washer machine, then put it in the dryer when its done, but my wife always takes it out and folds it.
I've tried-I'm just not the best one for that job.
I also dont clean windows well.

At the same time-I always change the oil in the cars. I always clean the gutters. I cut,split and stack all the firewood.
My wife probably could do those things, but I wouldnt let her,unless I was a quadrapalegic.

Then,No- I dont think you're crazy. Thats pretty much how it works around here.

If I go up to get a cup of coffee now and notice my 2 yr old has a dirty diaper, I'll change it. I wont tell my wife it needs to be done.
Like I said- there is nothing here that I cant do. If it needs to be done and I notice it,I do it.

There is stuff I dont LIKE to do- like folding laundry. I'll sort it, turn the clothes right side out, check pockets and fill the washer machine, then put it in the dryer when its done, but my wife always takes it out and folds it.
I've tried-I'm just not the best one for that job.
I also dont clean windows well.

At the same time-I always change the oil in the cars. I always clean the gutters. I cut,split and stack all the firewood.
My wife probably could do those things, but I wouldnt let her,unless I was a quadrapalegic.

My husband doesn't like washing dishes, I hate doing laundry (mostly the folding/putting up part) so I wash the dishes and he does the laundry, if I need something washed I do it, I don't go looking for him, if he wants his coffee cup clean and it's not he washes it (and everything else in the sink) because he can, not because he wants to or has to, I would be fine if he asked me to, but it's just easier for him to do what needs to be done.

It always amazes me how people perceive it as "man-hatred" when I assert that male human beings are capable of functioning as mature adults.

I don't hate men. I don't think men are stupid, or lazy and incompetant by nature. I think men are as capable as women, on average, and are more than able to behave themselves and be wonderful human beings. That's why I expect them to live up to those abilities and behave like grown-ups. I expect no less of men than I do of women.

I think the woman in this situation is handling her shit very badly. She's being a dope about it, and I don't mind saying so, because the whole get-a-job-or-we-divorce thing is just silly. But that doesn't change the fact that her husband is also being a dope, and he needs to get a clue if he wants to have a chance at building a successful marriage (or rearing a marginally-stable child).

I strongly dislike Smunkee's implications that it is the wife's responsibility to worry about the husband's poor tender feelings, while the wife's unhappiness is somehow also all her own responsibility. If women are capable of being responsible for their own happiness, then so are men. Personally, I think a husband and wife share a measure of responsibility to each other, and should acknowledge the power that they have to impact their partner's happiness. But, either way, I believe both should be held to an equal standard.

QFT

This is precisely what I have been saying.