NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.smh.com.au/news/people/kramers-racist-rant/2006/11/21/1163871369612.html

Does this mean I need to take down my Kramer poster? :(

You scared me for a second. I thought you ment Jim Cramer from CNBC's Mad Money.

I can't say that I have been very nice to hecklers before, but really? it's more fun to just make them look like the idiots they are.

The Soup Nazi makes more sense now. Eh never really was a big fan of Seinfeld so I'm not really affected by this.

Hm. That's odd.

Racist? After watching that 'performance' I think that may be the least of his social defects. He's not really that funny either.

jerry seinfeld is going to be on the letterman show tonight talking about it if you have some need to follow this fascinating story.

Racist? After watching that 'performance' I think that may be the least of his social defects. He's not really that funny either.

stand up comedy is not as easy as people think it is.

I dunno if it was so much racist as blind-rage-turning-him-into-an-asshole.

He could have handled that MUCH better than by going off on a rant where he screamed things he VERY OBVIOUSLY regrets now.

Think about kids screaming "I hate you" at their parents for minor frustrations and that's pretty much what I see here.

Does he need to apologize? Absolutely. A good grovel is good for the soul.
Is is national news? Not so much.

I dunno if it was so much racist as blind-rage-turning-him-into-an-asshole.

He could have handled that MUCH better than by going off on a rant where he screamed things he VERY OBVIOUSLY regrets now.

Think about kids screaming "I hate you" at their parents for minor frustrations and that's pretty much what I see here.

Does he need to apologize? Absolutely. A good grovel is good for the soul.
Is is national news? Not so much.

I dunno about that. He just screamed "******!" repeatedly at random people - a simple apology isn't going to do it. He just doesn't seem like anything near a good person anymore if he buckles under pressure and releases something idiotic like that.

An audience member heckled back: "That was uncalled for, you f--king cracker-ass motherf--ker."
Now that's just plain funny.

Seeing as how I never liked Seinfeld, I'm not going to be bothered by Kramer being a racist.

He just screamed "******!" repeatedly at random people.

That's my comic routine IRL.

I don't know if he's a racist, although this lends credence to those sorts of claims.

It seems he's an asshole though.

if he had thrown in KFC and a watermelon, then it would have been a joke.

Playing on sterotypes and all.

Just watched his so called apology on Letterman.

Draw your own conclusions. Mine is that he still laughs at 'schwartzs'.

well this has got me concerned

Just waiting for the inevitable 'checking into a drug & alcohol clinic' for substance-addiction and depression.

And possibly later, a tearful confession of having been felt up by a black clergyman when he was 12.

Not to worry, his 'family and friends will be standing by him during this painful and stressful period'.

But they do wish for the 'media and public not to intrude on this obvious difficult time'.

So we have yet another celebrity who is now to taste the wrath of the outraged public.

For those who don't know, Michael Richards lost his temper during a stand up comedy act. A heckler apparently gave h im a hard time and his reaction was to become so enraged that in the process of screaming and yelling he used the infamous

[cue scary organ fanfare]
THE 'N' WORD
[\fanfare]

7 times.

Doesn't matter that he apologized. Doesn't matter what he does now, he's toast. There is no forgiveness in this country anymore. He's been labeled a racist and the verdict is death by media nagging.

When I was a kid, we were taught that "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." I am perfectly well aware of the meaning of that word and how it gets used, but has it ever occurred to people that it's this huge reaction that gives that word its power?

It's just a word. It doesn't necessarily follow that anyone who uses it will don a white sheet, burn a cross, and lynch someone. I realize that's how people justify flying off the deep end whenever someone says it, but it isn't so.

And hold the "Well that just shows you're a racist!" flames, please. I refuse to take part in public hysteria and overreaction just to prove I am not racist. Frankly, I think that's why people go so nuts. I bet white people in the media react more strongly to

[cue scary organ fanfare]
THE 'N' WORD
[\fanfare]

than black people do, because by playing ball and getting on board with the 'racist bashing' they can point to it and say "SEE? I'm not a racist! I condemned Michael Richards! Look at me! I hate Mel Gibson now! That proves I'm no racist!"

Sheesh. Let's try to be adult about this. The guy lost his temper. We assume that the heckler was black, and Richards was so angry that he just wanted to hurt the guy, so he used a term that was guaranteed to do so. It doesn't even prove he's racist. Maybe he is, maybe he's not. All I can say is, who cares?

All it does is prove he is a prick. Plus, he probably wasn't funny to begin with. After all, he's no Rick Mercer...

I don't think the use of the "N" word implies any implicit rascism, just a severe lack of intelligence and imagination, a big disability in stand up comedy.

I saw the clip of his act where he said what he said.

Then I saw the pathetic "appology" on Letterman. He looked like he had a gun to his head. All that was missing was someone holding the day's New York Times up behind his head.

He never should have made this type of appology- He would have been much better off saying it was part of his act, a shocker and didnt mean to offend anyone- He is a comedian and he was on stage, doing his routine in a comedy club.

Saying you're sorry in this country is the worst thing you can do-wether you truly are or not. It stretches the whole pathetic process out, creates more sensation, gives 24 hr a day, seven day a week news shows endless hours of material to blab about.

They're gonna hang him upside down with a fork in his ass now because he was offensive.

Hope this didnt injure the potential sales of the Seinfeld 7th season on DVD.
(Maybe thats why he came right out with this sad sorry....) :rolleyes:

well, if all he could think of in response to a heckler was to focus on the colour of their skin instead of coming up with a witty reposte then he's not a very good comedien at all, is he? he deserves to be lambasted and shunned for being a retard more than anything else.

I don't think the use of the "N" word implies any implicit rascism, just a severe lack of intelligence and imagination, a big disability in stand up comedy.

He played the "Kramer" character very well on Seinfeld- in my opinion, he made the show.

I havent seen him show much talent doing anything else.

Agreed.

O noez, he used teh NAUGHTY WORD!1!1!1oneone! He amz teh RACIST!!!!!11!1!1!!oNe+shift!

Yawn. Some [presumably]black guy was heckling him, he got pissed and insulted him back[presumably]. The world will keep turning.

well, if all he could think of in response to a heckler was to focus on the colour of their skin instead of coming up with a witty reposte then he's not a very good comedien at all, is he? he deserves to be lambasted and shunned for being a retard more than anything else.

See that's my point exactly. If he had busted on the guy's hair style would that be better?

Have you ever lost your temper? Anyone who has knows that during those moments when all control is lost, all you want to do is hurt someone, either physically or emotionally. You see red. You want to lash out and establish yourself over th eone who angered you so completely.

I'm not condoning what he said, mind you, I'm saying that it was likely more out of anger than any deep-seeded racsism, and no he doesn't deserve to be lambasted over this to the degree he will be.

O noez, he used teh NAUGHTY WORD!1!1!1oneone! He amz teh RACIST!!!!!11!1!1!!oNe+shift!

Yawn. Some [presumably]black guy was heckling him, he got pissed and insulted him back[presumably]. The world will keep turning.

Not til we hear that Richards is seeking counseling for anger issues, or some other pathetic stupidity.

Right now, how many lawyers are trying to figure out defamation or civil rights issues to file suit on ?

I was very hurt by his words just seeing the tape on TMZ.

O noez, he used teh NAUGHTY WORD!1!1!1oneone! He amz teh RACIST!!!!!11!1!1!!oNe+shift!

Yawn. Some [presumably]black guy was heckling him, he got pissed and insulted him back[presumably]. The world will keep turning.

Agreed, but when a guys whole lively hood derives from public appeal the smart idea is not to piss off the people consuming his material.

They have a direct relationship with the pubic, their product is humor/entertainment. When yo go around badmouthing a large section of your consumer base (rightly or wrongly) ya cant really expect no backlash

Not til we hear that Richards is seeking counseling for anger issues, or some other pathetic stupidity.

Right now, how many lawyers are trying to figure out defamation or civil rights issues to file suit on ?

I was very hurt by his words just seeing the tape on TMZ.

You're right. Soon he'll be publicly announcing he's in anger management classes, he'll be expected to meet with black community leaders, he'll probably dodge/settle a lawsuit filed by the heckler (because America loves to reward jerks.. and yes, let's not forget this all started with a jerk being a heckler. Jerks come in all colors, friends.)

And god forbid he ever say anything like that again... even if it's 20 years from now.

...Doesn't matter that he apologized. Some apology. It doesn't necessarily follow that anyone who uses it will don a white sheet, burn a cross, and lynch someone.Glad you brought that up. Richards made reference at least twice in his harangue to lynching, including telling blacks in the audience that "50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down from a tree," as well as "I'm so rich I can have you arrested."

Richards went way past the line, even for stand-up. Independent observers indicate that Richards' remarks were far and away disproportionate to the "heckling" he was being given and came out of the blue. As Paul Rodriguez pointed out, if you use the word "******" there had better be a punch-line.

All I can say is, who cares?Quite a lot of people actually. Not because it proves we're not racist, as you put it, but because there is (or should be) a modicum of public civility. Each individual is due a certain amount of respect. Richards doesn't seem to get that. He revealed himself to be an asshole and now he'll be treated as one.

You're right. Soon he'll be publicly announcing he's in anger management classes, he'll be expected to meet with black community leaders, he'll probably dodge/settle a lawsuit filed by the heckler (because America loves to reward jerks.. and yes, let's not forget this all started with a jerk being a heckler. Jerks come in all colors, friends.)

And god forbid he ever say anything like that again... even if it's 20 years from now.

He may not get a chance. This club supposedly "banned" him from appearing there in the future.

Will other comedy clubs cancel any scheduled appearances?

Will he ever be able to work in this town again?

Or-will he be so sensational and controversial that people will now flock to see him? I never even knew he had a stand-up act. I thought he retired after that poor sitcom he tried after Seinfeld ended.

Its likely he'll just get hammered left and right. It'll never matter if he was a good comic or not.

I think its all over for him.

Certainly knew it was coming, espesh as it had it's own thread already:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=507940

Some apology.

I'm glad you said this, because itbrings up another point I forgot to include. Every time some celebrity messes up and issues a public apology, there's always a bunch of people waiting in line to critique the apology. It's hilarious, it's like watching the Monday night sports report on the weekends' football games. I think we, as the public, have to decide whether to accept the apology or not based on our own mature nature, and not on some kind of amateurish evaluation no how "good" the apology was. In some peoples' eyes, he'll never get that part right so I hope he doesn't start the endless apology cycle.


Glad you brought that up. Richards made reference at least twice in his harangue to lynching, including telling blacks in the audience that "50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down from a tree," as well as "I'm so rich I can have you arrested."


So what? Are you sure he was saying that to "blacks in the audience: or just to the heckler to try and get a rise out of him? No matter how we bend this, it's still a bunch of words spoken in anger.


Richards went way past the line, even for stand-up. Independent observers indicate that Richards' remarks were far and away disproportionate to the "heckling" he was being given and came out of the blue. As Paul Rodriguez pointed out, if you use the word "******" there had better be a punch-line.


But see, this kind of proves my point too, because we all know that no matter *what* the heckler said, it wouldn't justify that sort of language, so it's meaningless to say his response was disproportionate to the heckler's remakrs. And Paul Rodriguezs hit the nail on the head. ANY other word would have just went on by... well, almost any. There are plenty of racial slurs that are almost as juicy for the media.


Quite a lot of people actually. Not because it proves we're not racist, as you put it, but because there is (or should be) a modicum of public civility. Each individual is due a certain amount of respect. Richards doesn't seem to get that. He revealed himself to be an asshole and now he'll be treated as one.
I agree with what you're saying, but the whole point is that Richards went over the line in a loss of temper. I'm not saying losing your temper is okay, but it happens every day. I've lost mine, you've lost yours, everyone reading these has. Don't we all wish we could undo some of the things we've said or done?

Certainly knew it was coming, espesh as it had it's own thread already:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=507940

oops. Sorry.

He may not get a chance. This club supposedly "banned" him from appearing there in the future.

Will other comedy clubs cancel any scheduled appearances?

Will he ever be able to work in this town again?

Or-will he be so sensational and controversial that people will now flock to see him? I never even knew he had a stand-up act. I thought he retired after that poor sitcom he tried after Seinfeld ended.

Its likely he'll just get hammered left and right. It'll never matter if he was a good comic or not.

I think its all over for him.

And that's the tragedy. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

Agreed, but when a guys whole lively hood derives from public appeal the smart idea is not to piss off the people consuming his material.

They have a direct relationship with the pubic, their product is humor/entertainment. When yo go around badmouthing a large section of your consumer base (rightly or wrongly) ya cant really expect no backlash

Indeed, he really should have just told the guy to GTFO or STFU or some other acronym.

Fyi, here's the stand-up on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T7uKvpzVXI

And here's his apology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quhhj3dX0qU
"ohhh...look at how bad I feel! Don't laugh! You should all feel sorry for me!"

Man's an absolute ass. An unfunny one at that.


Sidenote: Seinfeld is looking chubby nowadays.

See that's my point exactly. If he had busted on the guy's hair style would that be better?

well the difference as i see it is that a hair style is something you choose and can therefore be judged on it, your skin colour is something you're born with and is not something you can be legitimately judged on.
Have you ever lost your temper? Anyone who has knows that during those moments when all control is lost, all you want to do is hurt someone, either physically or emotionally. You see red. You want to lash out and establish yourself over th eone who angered you so completely.
the point here is he picked out skin colour as the reason he was better than the heckler. that's what is so retarded about it. if you want to establish yourself over the person who angered you, you go for some indication of how they live their lives wrongly that you do better. in this case he could have pointed out his success, his popularity, his wealth if he wanted. instead he chose to focus on skin colour.

I'm not condoning what he said, mind you, I'm saying that it was likely more out of anger than any deep-seeded racsism, and no he doesn't deserve to be lambasted over this to the degree he will be.

the thing is, if people aren't made examples of for this sort of thing then people who actually do harbour deepseeded racism can come to think that that sort of baseless tirade is a perfectly acceptable way to behave when confronted with someone who betters you in an exchange.

And that's the tragedy. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

For some reason I am not too mortified that a club and the general public do not want to associate themselfs with someone that says

“Shut up! Fifty years ago we’d have you upside down with a [expletive] fork up your a--.”

oops. Sorry.
I forgive you.

well the difference as i see it is that a hair style is something you choose and can therefore be judged on it, your skin colour is something you're born with and is not something you can be legitimately judged on.

the point here is he picked out skin colour as the reason he was better than the heckler. that's what is so retarded about it. if you want to establish yourself over the person who angered you, you go for some indication of how they live their lives wrongly that you do better. in this case he could have pointed out his success, his popularity, his wealth if he wanted. instead he chose to focus on skin colour.


But see, the whole thing is if he was so angry he just wanted to lash out, there's no better way to do it. Skin color is a stupid thing to bust on somebody about, but it is guaranteed to get a rise, which is what he wanted.


the thing is, if people aren't made examples of for this sort of thing then people who actually do harbour deepseeded racism can come to think that that sort of baseless tirade is a perfectly acceptable way to behave when confronted with someone who betters you in an exchange.

I can't see this as justifiable in the name of making an example. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if real racsists DID have an outlet like that. Maybe then it would be out in the open instead of hidden...

But that would be so much less scandalous, and where would the media be then?

I forgive you.

:)

The mans a prat, he's apologised for clearly losing his temper. Probably not a racist, probably got pissed off and took shock value too far

For some reason I am not too mortified that a club and the general public do not want to associate themselfs with someone that says

Well certainly people can choose whom to associate with, but at the same time that doesn't justify overreacting.

I applaud Kramer for his performance. He's taking back a word that is the property of white people. That was our word for insulting black people, but now in these PC times we can't even use it. Now only black people can use it and they've stripped the word of all of it's original meaning. It's racist to allow only black people to use the word and it's wrong to take away the original meaning and emotional impact of that word. Kudos Kramer. Keep standing up for the white man's language.

DISCLAIMER: This post was not serious. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it.

I agree with what you're saying, but the whole point is that Richards went over the line in a loss of temper. I'm not saying losing your temper is okay, but it happens every day. I've lost mine, you've lost yours, everyone reading these has. Don't we all wish we could undo some of the things we've said or done?
Difference is that Richards put himself in a postion where he should know that he could be confronted by people trying to upset him and get a rise out of him. That's what some ppl like to do when they go see stand-ups - they like to heckle them, either good-naturedly or not.
It's part of the job. If Richards can't deal with that and hasn't any strategies or comebacks to stop them, then he shouldn't be doing stand-up.

Difference is that Richards put himself in a postion where he should know that he could be confronted by people trying to upset him and get a rise out of him. That's what some ppl like to do when they go see stand-ups - they like to heckle them, either good-naturedly or not.
It's part of the job. If Richards can't deal with that and hasn't any strategies or comebacks to stop them, then he shouldn't be doing stand-up.

Well I agree with that, but it's a separate issue. He shouldn't have lost his temper, and yes it was unprofessional to do so.

But see, the whole thing is if he was so angry he just wanted to lash out, there's no better way to do it. Skin color is a stupid thing to bust on somebody about, but it is guaranteed to get a rise, which is what he wanted.

I can't see this as justifiable in the name of making an example. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if real racsists DID have an outlet like that. Maybe then it would be out in the open instead of hidden...

But that would be so much less scandalous, and where would the media be then?

The mans a prat, he's apologised for clearly losing his temper. Probably not a racist, probably got pissed off and took shock value too far

yeh, maybe he was using shock value to get a rise and took it too far, and the media will probably try to sensationalise it. but the fact is he did take it too far and therefore it shouldn't go without consequence, especially for someone who has a public profile. just because people lose their temper all the time doesn't mean it's okay.

I applaud Kramer for his performance. He's taking back a word that is the property of white people. That was our word for insulting black people, but now in these PC times we can't even use it. Now only black people can use it and they've stripped the word of all of it's original meaning. It's racist to allow only black people to use the word and it's wrong to take away the original meaning and emotional impact of that word. Kudos Kramer. Keep standing up for the white man's language.
Too late! My panties are twisting! My panties are twising!


Incidently, this post's style is very reminiscent of a certain recent NS trolls' writings.
Coincidence?
...

He should have used "jigaboo"-much funnier.

You cant be accused of being full of rage when you say that word.

Well certainly people can choose whom to associate with, but at the same time that doesn't justify overreacting.

Lol I said that sort of shit to my customers I would expect to have my ass fired, with just cause.

Why should I expect less of him?

I just watched the YouTube link that was kindly posted, and I have some new thoughts.

I find it interesting that the version I had see, the one shown on the news, left out the part where a couple of guys in the crowd were yelling racist remarks back. "White boy" and "Cracker-a$$ motherf...."

Looks like the exchange was more 2-way than we were at first led to believe.

And no, the "He said it first" defense ain't gonna fly. Not since Kindergarten.

I just watched the YouTube link that was kindly posted, and I have some new thoughts.

I find it interesting that the version I had see, the one shown on the news, left out the part where a couple of guys in the crowd were yelling racist remarks back. "White boy" and "Cracker-a$$ motherf...."

Looks like the exchange was more 2-way than we were at first led to believe.

And no, the "He said it first" defense ain't gonna fly. Not since Kindergarten.
The MSNBC one had all that ... it also had where the guy asked him to stop and said that it was un called for.

Though the White racial slurs only came AFTER the N word came out

Lol I said that sort of shit to my customers I would expect to have my ass fired, with just cause.

Why should I expect less of him?

Naw but it seems like a lot of places are just going to blacklist him summarily. If I had a comedy club and my patrons wanted to see him, I'd bring him in.

The fact is, if the guy apologized then we ought to take it at face value unless given good reason not to, like if it became a pattern. As of now, I say he apologized, let it go.

The MSNBC one had all that ... it also had where the guy asked him to stop and said that it was un called for.

Though the White racial slurs only came AFTER the N word came out

Yah. The "he said it first" defense.

If Richards is a racist for saying that stuff, then the guy yelling stuff back is a racist. This nonsense is either justifiable for EVERYBODY or it isn't.

Yah. The "he said it first" defense.

If Richards is a racist for saying that stuff, then the guy yelling stuff back is a racist. This nonsense is either justifiable for EVERYBODY or it isn't.

Sure absolutely I agree with you ... but that guy was not at "Work" and he was not addressing his "Customers" of whom he is expecting to make a living off of

Naw but it seems like a lot of places are just going to blacklist him summarily. If I had a comedy club and my patrons wanted to see him, I'd bring him in.

The fact is, if the guy apologized then we ought to take it at face value unless given good reason not to, like if it became a pattern. As of now, I say he apologized, let it go.

I would not expect my Japanese consults (I do some consulting work) to pay me after I called them all slant-eyes at work (even if they interrupted me on a conference call a time or two) and I don't particularly expect the public to wish to pay him either.

Yah. The "he said it first" defense.

If Richards is a racist for saying that stuff, then the guy yelling stuff back is a racist. This nonsense is either justifiable for EVERYBODY or it isn't.

well no-one here is defending the heckler if he was making racial slurs as well. the fact that it was a two way exchange does not mean that the one cancels out the other. it just means that there are (at least) two dickheads involved. the reason why wossisface is forced to apologise is because he is a public figure. and he's apologising to his public not to the heckler. the heckler doesn't have a public to apologise to.

Sure absolutely I agree with you ... but that guy was not at "Work" and he was not addressing his "Customers" of whom he is expecting to make a living off of

We agree here... As stated earlier it was a dumb move in the sense that a stand up comic ought to be able to handle it better,and flying off the handle is unprofessional.

Although I'd still hope that wouldn't end his career. Michael Richards has been around for a while and as far as I know, this is the first time he'sbeen in this kind of trouble. That leads me to believe there are other factors going on in his life that we haven't heard about.

We agree here... As stated earlier it was a dumb move in the sense that a stand up comic ought to be able to handle it better,and flying off the handle is unprofessional.

Although I'd still hope that wouldn't end his career. Michael Richards has been around for a while and as far as I know, this is the first time he'sbeen in this kind of trouble. That leads me to believe there are other factors going on in his life that we haven't heard about.
I don't particularly hope for an end to his career either, but I can understand if it does.

well no-one here is defending the heckler if he was making racial slurs as well. the fact that it was a two way exchange does not mean that the one cancels out the other. it just means that there are (at least) two dickheads involved. the reason why wossisface is forced to apologise is because he is a public figure. and he's apologising to his public not to the heckler. the heckler doesn't have a public to apologise to.

He will if a lawsuit gets going... :rolleyes:

Edit: Maybe he'll even geta book deal out of it. "I Didn't Heckle Michael Richards, but if I did, Here's How I'd Do It."

He should have used "jigaboo"-much funnier.

You cant be accused of being full of rage when you say that word. or pickaninny... or the newly popular macaca, which is actually more offensive because it is derived from a word for monkey as opposed to a world for black(n word) or small(pickaninny).

I just watched the YouTube link that was kindly posted, and I have some new thoughts.

I find it interesting that the version I had see, the one shown on the news, left out the part where a couple of guys in the crowd were yelling racist remarks back. "White boy" and "Cracker-a$$ motherf...."

Looks like the exchange was more 2-way than we were at first led to believe.

And no, the "He said it first" defense ain't gonna fly. Not since Kindergarten.

Of course they'll leave that out- But-it doesnt really matter anyway.

They are just words. Spoken in a comedy venue. Comics single out people in the audience and refer to their weight-Did Don Rickles appologize when he told a guy he looks like he eats furniture?


Just words. And it wasnt a campaign or commencement speech. It wasnt in front of young, impressionable children that dont know any better.
It was in a comedy club, where people pay to get in and alcohol is served.

Now kids ARE seeing it on every news channel.

Its a non-issue. Being whipped into a scandal.

Of course they'll leave that out- But-it doesnt really matter anyway.

They are just words. Spoken in a comedy venue. Comics single out people in the audience and refer to their weight-Did Don Rickles appologize when he told a guy he looks like he eats furniture?


Just words. And it wasnt a campaign or commencement speech. It wasnt in front of young, impressionable children that dont know any better.
It was in a comedy club, where people pay to get in and alcohol is served.

Now kids ARE seeing it on every news channel.

Its a non-issue. Being whipped into a scandal.

You put it better than I. I salute you.

The fact is, if the guy apologized then we ought to take it at face value unless given good reason not to, like if it became a pattern. As of now, I say he apologized, let it go.The problem with that is apologies are a dime a dozen.

Little Billy busts his sister's nose? "You go apologize to your sister" doesn't change Billy's bullying behavior.

A congressman diddles underage interns? "I'm sorry, but I'm an alcoholic."

Some old guy mows down a dozen people with his SUV? "I'm sorry, but I thought I was pressing the brake."

Some public figure spews a racist tirade.. should "I'm sorry, but I was mad" really cut it?

or pickaninny... or the newly popular macaca, which is actually more offensive because it is derived from a word for monkey as opposed to a world for black(n word) or small(pickaninny).

Wow-I thought I knew them all-I never heard those two.

I'm shocked and appalled at those hateful,scary words. :p

The problem with that is apologies are a dime a dozen.

Little Billy busts his sister's nose? "You go apologize to your sister" doesn't change Billy's bullying behavior.

A congressman diddles underage interns? "I'm sorry, but I'm an alcoholic."

Some old guy mows down a dozen people with his SUV? "I'm sorry, but I thought I was pressing the brake."

Some public figure spews a racist tirade.. should "I'm sorry, but I was mad" really cut it?

But there is some value in making Billy go apologize. Otherwise, why bother? Besides which, I don't think it's a goo didea to get into the business of second guessing people's motives when they issue an apology. Like i said, until/unless it becomes a pattern, we ought to take it at face value.

Looks like the exchange was more 2-way than we were at first led to believe.

And no, the "He said it first" defense ain't gonna fly. Not since Kindergarten.
I think in this case it can fly.
Richards called him a ****** 5 or 6 times and then kept going on about him, even as the guy was leaving. It was only then that the guy called him a cracker-ass.
You can't argue that yelling insults at someone half a dozen times then getting one back means you're both equally in the wrong.

For me, I admire the guy's control. If I had been subjected to that sort of abuse I'd have said a few more things than just that.

I think the line that particularly shows up Richards racist-leanings at the end when he yells out at the departing guy, "That's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't you know?" Might have gotten away with the other insults, but that one really says a lot, imo.


The guy had even let Richards have the opportunity to regain control and take it somewhere funny when he called out, 'That was uncalled for'. Richards could have then twisted it around into a commentary about white/black relations and how the effect of the word '******' is changed according to who's saying, how and where.

Richards blew it big time and really let his inner self show up here.

Eh. Kramer wasn't that good anyway. Actors shouldn't be stand-up comedians. There's a huge difference between being an actor and a comic, and unfortunately, most of them don't know it.

The problem with that is apologies are a dime a dozen.

Little Billy busts his sister's nose? "You go apologize to your sister" doesn't change Billy's bullying behavior.

A congressman diddles underage interns? "I'm sorry, but I'm an alcoholic."

Some old guy mows down a dozen people with his SUV? "I'm sorry, but I thought I was pressing the brake."

Some public figure spews a racist tirade.. should "I'm sorry, but I was mad" really cut it?


You cant compare this to a congressman comitting a crime against a monor.
You cant compare this to an old guy mowing down a dozen people in an SUV.

He said words in a closed event where people chose to go in and can expect to hear something outrageous.

He is a spineless fool for playing the "sorry game." Sounds like he caved under pressure from Seinfeld and the potential loss of DVD sales.

Thats pretty much it.

Had he stuck with saying it was all part of his shocking act, people would simply be saying- "wow-he sucks" and not pay to see him anymore, or be thrilled at him for being controversial and GO to see him and his shocking,magical words.

Now he's gonna have to sit through afternoon tea with Jesse Jackson or Bill Cosby.

"Racist"...spare me. Everyone is a racist by the definition of the word, no matter what color you are. Some people pretend they arent.

The problem comes when people act to harm or cheat others based on race.

His words didnt harm anyone. Not until they file suit and start wearing a neckbrace.

Then-he can just hide all his money in Florida real estate & offshore accounts so he doesnt have to pay out on judgements on those he hurt so seriously.

But there is some value in making Billy go apologize. Otherwise, why bother? Besides which, I don't think it's a goo didea to get into the business of second guessing people's motives when they issue an apology. Like i said, until/unless it becomes a pattern, we ought to take it at face value.

Why? These places thrive on public image, like any business they are going to play it safe unless there is a large monetary reward in doing otherwise.

They are looking out for their best interest.

I think in this case it can fly.
Richards called him a ****** 5 or 6 times and then kept going on about him, even as the guy was leaving. It was only then that the guy called him a cracker-ass.
You can't argue that yelling insults at someone half a dozen times then getting one back means you're both equally in the wrong.

I think that can indeed be argued. Richards was putting on a show even then, exaggerating it presumably to take the edge off ad part of the act (which failed miserably) When the guy yelled his racial slur back, he became a hypocrite. Do you doubt he ever uses the term "cracker ass MF" in his day-to day life, maybe when hanging out with buddies? I mean, if we're going to apply that logic to Richards, there's plenty of blame and character judgement to go around.


For me, I admire the guy's control. If I had been subjected to that sort of abuse I'd have said a few more things than just that.
Don't forget he also made threats.


I think the line that particularly shows up Richards racist-leanings at the end when he yells out at the departing guy, "That's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't you know?" Might have gotten away with the other insults, but that one really says a lot, imo.

He was obviously being sarcastic.


The guy had even let Richards have the opportunity to regain control and take it somewhere funny when he called out, 'That was uncalled for'. Richards could have then twisted it around into a commentary about white/black relations and how the effect of the word '******' is changed according to who's saying, how and where.

Richards blew it big time and really let his inner self show up here.

I agree he blew it, but by being unprofessional, not racist.

Why? These places thrive on public image, like any business they are going to play it safe unless there is a large monetary reward in doing otherwise.

They are looking out for their best interest.

As is the case in most apologies, public or private. I still don't think it qualifies us to be the judge. After all, since we know there IS money at stake, would it even be POSSIBLE to apologize effectively otherwise?

Wow-I thought I knew them all-I never heard those two.

I'm shocked and appalled at those hateful,scary words. :pmacaca is the one that got the virgina senator in trouble(he ultimately lost), he called a photographer who followed his campaign for his opponent that, then claimed he made up the word, but its actually a french slur against africans and arab and his mom was of french colonial extraction... pickaninny is an old term for african american children it just derives from the portuguese pequenino which means little.

Disturbing. Not because of the N-word, mind you, but because of his reaction. A normal person doesn't react like that when insulted; he has some serious self-esteem issues. If he had stopped even after the fork-in-the-ass comment, he would have been on the winning side.

As for the word '******' itself... It's just a word. People need to grow a damn skin.

At least Mel Gibson had the decency to be drunk off his ass first.

Now he's gonna have to sit through afternoon tea with Jesse Jackson or Bill Cosby.

Why, so Bill can show him how to actually be a funny comedian? :D

That is some really uncomfortable viewing.

Disgusting.

It looks like he tried to spin it at the time as though he was just making a commentary on racism, but I don't buy it.

Of course they'll leave that out- But-it doesnt really matter anyway.

They are just words. Spoken in a comedy venue. Comics single out people in the audience and refer to their weight-Did Don Rickles appologize when he told a guy he looks like he eats furniture?

Just words. And it wasnt a campaign or commencement speech. It wasnt in front of young, impressionable children that dont know any better.
It was in a comedy club, where people pay to get in and alcohol is served.

Now kids ARE seeing it on every news channel.

Its a non-issue. Being whipped into a scandal. It is not a non-issue. But I'm not surprised to see you characterise it as such. At what point does blatant, hateful racism become an issue to you I wonder?

That there will likely be no criminal outcome to this doesn't mean that his career should not be rightfully flushed down the toilet by those who object to his disgusting show of racism.

It IS a scandal, and he will suffer for it. It's because people make a stink about shit like this that it is NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE for this to go on...were we all to sit back and say 'oh it's only words', ****** would still be in your everyday vocabulary.

St Jello Biafra;11980248']Why, so Bill can show him how to actually be a funny comedian? :D

Nah-Bill stopped being funny a long time ago, when he mistakenly thought we gave a shit about his opinions on things.
He's pretty racist too.

Meh, there are plenty of people who are great on TV/movies etc., who are really assholes in real life. Michael Richards seems to have proved to be an asshole in real life but that doesn't make me life Seinfeld or his character Kramer any less. Ones personal life has never made any effect on me when it comes to their work.

Kramer was awesome after all. :)

It is not a non-issue. But I'm not surprised to see you characterise it as such. At what point does blatant, hateful racism become an issue to you I wonder?

That there will likely be no criminal outcome to this doesn't mean that his career should not be rightfully flushed down the toilet by those who object to his disgusting show of racism.

It IS a scandal, and he will suffer for it. It's because people make a stink about shit like this that it is NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE for this to go on...were we all to sit back and say 'oh it's only words', ****** would still be in your everyday vocabulary.

Nope-still a non-issue. Blatant hateful racism is an issue when someone is injured or loses because of it.
Til then, its just words.
He didnt incite a riot. He wasnt hitting someone over the head.

His career is in the toilet-thats why he is doing this stand-up.

He wasnt yelling the word in the street-It was during a comedy routine in a club-where you pay admission to get in. It wasnt a public event.

You cant even speculate as to my vocabulary-it wasnt ever, nor is it part of my everyday vocabulary. Thats like me speculating as to what hateful diatribe you must spout daily.

I'm certainly not the issue here, nor have I ever spouted hate.

Dont try to make believe I do.

Meh, there are plenty of people who are great on TV/movies etc., who are really assholes in real life. Michael Richards seems to have proved to be an asshole in real life but that doesn't make me life Seinfeld or his character Kramer any less. Ones personal life has never made any effect on me when it comes to their work.

Kramer was awesome after all. :)

Yes-the "Kramer" character was great-like I said-I think he made the show.

Everything I've seen Richards do since...not so impressive.

Also-who even knew he was doing any stand up til you heard about this?

You cant even speculate as to my vocabulary-it wasnt ever, nor is it part of my everyday vocabulary. Thats like me speculating as to what hateful diatribe you must spout daily.

I'm certainly not the issue here, nor have I ever spouted hate.

Dont try to make beleive I do.You misunderstand.

"******" was an everyday word for a long, long time. The fact that it is no longer a regular part of everyday vocabulary is due to the fact that people did not buy into 'it's just a word that causes no harm on it's own', but rather treated it as a symptom, a manifestation of a very serious problem. Had people taken your current approach, '******' very likely would continue to be a part of your vocabulary today.

I wasn't speculating as to whether it was in use, or has been in use by you.

Also-who even knew he was doing any stand up til you heard about this?

To be honest I never heard of him doing any stand up. I thought he disappeared with the others. Not even getting a lousy sitcom like Jason Alexander got. :p

You misunderstand.

"******" was an everyday word for a long, long time. The fact that it is no longer a regular part of everyday vocabulary is due to the fact that people did not buy into 'it's just a word that causes no harm on it's own', but rather treated it as a symptom, a manifestation of a very serious problem. Had people taken your current approach, '******' very likely would continue to be a part of your vocabulary today.

I wasn't speculating as to whether it was in use, or has been in use by you.

Douchebag and twat arent part of most people's everyday vocabulary either. But its not criminal to speak them.

Just crude.

Douchebag and twat arent part of most people's everyday vocabulary either. But its not criminal to speak them.

Just crude.

They don't have the same connotations as racist slurs either.

No point in trying to compare them.

And we aren't talking about 'criminal' in the first place. There are no 'proscribed' list of words that would land you in jail upon their utterance.

And as for everyday vocabulary...well depends on where you work :D

They don't have the same connotations as racist slurs either.

No point in trying to compare them.

And we aren't talking about 'criminal' in the first place. There are no 'proscribed' list of words that would land you in jail upon their utterance.

And as for everyday vocabulary...well depends on where you work :D

I work mostly from home-I can use any words I want and I'm not offended.

I don't care if I'm a hundred years old, my Mamma would wash my mouth out with soap for saying the "N" word. She'd have done the same for any racial slur. "Fuck" she tolerates fine. But there are some words that just need to be allowed to quietly die.

It's amazing how people's true colours shine through under fire...

He should have used "jigaboo"-much funnier.

You cant be accused of being full of rage when you say that word.

would be hard to use junglebunny seriously too

or pickaninny... or the newly popular macaca, which is actually more offensive because it is derived from a word for monkey as opposed to a world for black(n word) or small(pickaninny).

never heard of macaca .. maybe it's similar to our term porchmonkey

That's sad. He was (and still is, I guess) one of my favorite characters in TV. I think he just got mad at the heckler and went crazy....dunno if his frustration with failures after the Seinfeld show pushed him over the edge on this occasion...

"******" was an everyday word for a long, long time. The fact that it is no longer a regular part of everyday vocabulary is due to the fact that people did not buy into 'it's just a word that causes no harm on it's own', but rather treated it as a symptom, a manifestation of a very serious problem. Had people taken your current approach, '******' very likely would continue to be a part of your vocabulary today.

And this would be bad, because...?

If people accepted the fact that '******' is just a word, the connotations of which depend on how it is used and by whom, it would lose its offensive power. Yes, people would go around calling each other niggers all the time, but nobody would mind. It would be just another word for a black person. It's not that I'm somehow fond of the word and want it to be used all the time, but it just annoys me that it has been singled out as some sort of ultimate brand of a racist.

Furthermore, banning a word will not decrease the actual racist feelings that made the word offensive. The KKK hates African Americans just as much as they hate niggers. This will result in nothing but the coining of new, neutral terms to replace the old, loaded ones. They will be used for a decade or two, until they in turn become racist and must be replaced.

You're fooling yourself if you actually believe the issue is the word itself. The non-****** words that were used during this rant were just as offensive.

The fact that people react negatively to racist sentiment is the issue. They are not just reacting to 'empty words'. Hence the ability of some people to use what are normally offensive words in a non-offensive way.

And again, no one is talking about banning such idiocy. Let the chips fall where they may...go ahead and be an idiot and spout racist nonsense. It is socially unacceptable to do so and you will suffer the repercussions. Were people to blindly pretend that 'words are just words' and use that as a pretext to ignore the racist sentiment being EXPRESSED WITH WORDS, then people would constantly feel free to say whatever stupid, racist, ignorant thing they wanted. That they do not feel this freedom has nothing to do with law, and everything to do with living within a society that does not believe 'tolerance' means putting up with intolerance without comment.

You're fooling yourself if you actually believe the issue is the word itself. The non-****** words that were used during this rant were just as offensive.

It was pretty obvious that the guy was just trying to be as offensive as possible. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense that he went around the stage screaming: "He's a ******! He's a ******!" He deliberately picked a word that he knew would get the biggest response. In this particular case, I know it wasn't the word itself that pissed people off, but I was talking in general. There are a lot of people, many of whom are white, who would be very angry at me if I said "I love niggers" or something non-racist like that.

The fact that people react negatively to racist sentiment is the issue. They are not just reacting to 'empty words'. Hence the ability of some people to use what are normally offensive words in a non-offensive way.

So you do agree that it is just a word. I'm glad we agree, but like I said, you have to be very careful when using normally offensive words in a non-offensive way. Many people believe that racist sentiment is tied to vocabulary. Even you made the assumption that I would want to use the word in order to be a racist idiot.

And again, no one is talking about banning such idiocy. Let the chips fall where they may...go ahead and be an idiot and spout racist nonsense. It is socially unacceptable to do so and you will suffer the repercussions. Were people to blindly pretend that 'words are just words' and use that as a pretext to ignore the racist sentiment being EXPRESSED WITH WORDS, then people would constantly feel free to say whatever stupid, racist, ignorant thing they wanted. That they do not feel this freedom has nothing to do with law, and everything to do with living within a society that does not believe 'tolerance' means putting up with intolerance without comment.

Sorry, I didn't mean banning by law. I meant banning by public consensus, which is exactly what you have described above. And I have no desire to go around "spouting racist nonsense", I just want to be able to say '******' in a non-offensive context without being labeled as a nazi.

That's my comic routine IRL.
And I'd laugh my ass off.

I don't care if I'm a hundred years old, my Mamma would wash my mouth out with soap for saying the "N" word. She'd have done the same for any racial slur. "Fuck" she tolerates fine. But there are some words that just need to be allowed to quietly die.
But that would ruin the joke on the greatest t-shirt ever made...

NIGER LOVER

But that would ruin the joke on the greatest t-shirt ever made...

NIGER LOVERThe first time I drove to Oklahoma, I stopped at a gas station just across the Oklahoma-Texas border. The graffiiti in the bathroom said "I Hate Nigers" and I thought "Oh great, the racists here are illiterate too."

The first time I drove to Oklahoma, I stopped at a gas station just across the Oklahoma-Texas border. The graffiiti in the bathroom said "I Hate Nigers" and I thought "Oh great, the racists here are illiterate too."

T-Shirt Hell doesn't appear to make the shirt anymore, but on it the slogan is superimposed over a faint map of Niger.

T-Shirt Hell doesn't appear to make the shirt anymore, but on it the slogan is superimposed over a faint map of Niger.Love T-shirt Hell.

Hes definitely landed out in the cold now.....
(I thought this was hilarious)

"Michael Richards: Not a Jew
The Jewish Journal of greater L.A, CA - 2 hours ago
As Cosmo Kramer in "Seinfeld," Richards played one on TV. But he himself is not Jewish -- not that there's anything wrong with that. ... "

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16838

Okay, to all of you people calling him a "racist" because of his adrenaline-gushing tirade... Enough. You can tell by the fricking tone of his voice that he's being sarcastic (and is extremely pissed off).

The guy obviously has some anger management issues, and he really needs to learn how to get back at hecklers in a much more sensible (and funnier) fashion. But a racist? Spare me the bullshit...

Living in a society of diverse people, you're prone to racist/ignorant thoughts every now and then. Richards just has issues and needs to deal with it. Yes, what he said was inappropriate, but let's not blow it out of proportion like its the end of the freaking world. He's only human and humans make mistakes.

People who go to the so-called "laugh" factory deserve everything they get and more.

I have no sympathy for any of the parties.

People who go to the so-called "laugh" factory deserve everything they get and more.

I have no sympathy for any of the parties.

I'm in agreement here. :p

Okay, to all of you people calling him a "racist" because of his adrenaline-gushing tirade... Enough. You can tell by the fricking tone of his voice that he's being sarcastic (and is extremely pissed off).

The guy obviously has some anger management issues, and he really needs to learn how to get back at hecklers in a much more sensible (and funnier) fashion. But a racist? Spare me the bullshit...

Do we know if he actually hates black people?

No.

We only have his behaviour to go on, and I think he characterised himself well.

Living in a society of diverse people, you're prone to racist/ignorant thoughts every now and then. Richards just has issues and needs to deal with it. Yes, what he said was inappropriate, but let's not blow it out of proportion like its the end of the freaking world. He's only human and humans make mistakes.

Being an 'entertainer' doesn't mean he should be absolved of answer for his actions.

Were some random idiot to stand up in a KFC and spout that kind of nonsense, he'd be lucky to escape a beating.

Richards is taking the beating to his 'career'. Consequences. We are all fully aware of how we will be perceived if we rant and rave like racist lunatics.

Richards is taking the beating to his 'career'. Consequences. We are all fully aware of how we will be perceived if we rant and rave like racist lunatics.

Well, thats unfortunate for him. But as long as he acknowledges what he did was wrong and apologizes for them, which he has, I don't think we should keep pointing fingers at him. Let's hope he has learned a lesson or two, for you know what they say... what comes around goes around.

In his defense some people did throw racist remarks back at him, two wrongs don't make a right.

Were some random idiot to stand up in a KFC and spout that kind of nonsense, he'd be lucky to escape a beating.

I enjoy the subtle racism in this statement...

I enjoy the subtle racism in this statement...

Damn, i thought no one else had noticed. The KFC near my house has a sign up saying you can nolonger pay by cheque. WHo the hell would pay for fried chicken with a cheque?

Damn, i thought no one else had noticed. The KFC near my house has a sign up saying you can nolonger pay by cheque. WHo the hell would pay for fried chicken with a cheque?

You'd be surprised. I work at the local KFC and we have two or three people a day try to pay with a check. What I want to know is who wants to pay the outlandish prices we charge for the crap food we serve? $1.29 for a Snacker (a chicken strip in a small bun with sauce and lettuce for whoever doesn't know) is about $0.29 too much.

You'd be surprised. I work at the local KFC and we have two or three people a day try to pay with a check. What I want to know is who wants to pay the outlandish prices we charge for the crap food we serve? $1.29 for a Snacker (a chicken strip in a small bun with sauce and lettuce for whoever doesn't know) is about $0.29 too much.
Surely you mean to say it's $1.28 too much?

Like you, I've often wondered as to the attractions of McDs, KFC et al. Espesh McDs.
The hamburgers are tiny overpriced and are totally lacking in, well, everything.
In a typical takeaway place in NZ, a hamburger will cost less and have tomato, lettuce, red beet (always red beet no idea why), cheese, a big fat meat patty, onions and mushrooms. One is usually enough for a meal.

If a private, family-owned takeaway shop tried charging McD prices and offering McD-quality hamburgers they wouldn't stay in business long. Everyone would complain.
Yet ppl flock to McDs for sub-standard, low-quality, over-priced shit.
Just can't understand it at all.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3159127191960661978&hl=en

Dunno if this has been posted yet, but here ya go.

"That's what you get when you inturrupt a white man"?