NationStates Jolt Archive

What are your thoughts on the usage of shame as a punishment? Such as forcing a criminal to hold up a sign advertising their crime, or criminals publicly announcing the crime they committed in a newspaper or TV.

In Gementera's case, a federal judge in March 2003 ordered him to stand for eight hours outside a San Francisco post office wearing a two-sided "sandwich board" bearing the words: "I stole mail. This is my punishment."

• In Maryland, Texas, Georgia and California, shoplifters have been required to stand outside stores with signs announcing their crimes.

• In Escambia County, Fla., and in Ohio, drunken drivers are issued special license plates that identify them to fellow motorists.

• In Houston and Corpus Christi, Texas, convicted sex offenders have been ordered to place signs on their front lawns that warn away children.

• In Pennsylvania last year, the driver of a car that caused a fatal accident was forced to carry a picture of the victim.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-17-shame-sentencing_x.htm

Awesome!

Sounds to be a reasonably efficient method to do these punishments.

Depends really. I have no problem with the first two, but the third invites itself towards a nasty backlash (and if one has done one's time in jail, that should be the end of it), and if they are a danger still to children they shouldn't be out on the streets at all.

I'm not sure on the last one at all.:rolleyes:

I completely and utterly dig it. I can't believe that we live with reality TV, but don't have the Criminal Channel: Mugshots and Arrest details 24/7.

Sounds to be a reasonably efficient method to do these punishments.

Probably more effective in some cases than jail, with little/no cost to the taxpayer.

Probably more effective in some cases than jail, with little/no cost to the taxpayer.

Low cost = low taxes! *thumbs up*

Low cost = low taxes! *thumbs up*

Or better spending on public servi...*gets lynched*;)

You know, I thought we had gotten past the scarlet letter punishments like, 300 years ago?

I suppose for the sandwich thing it's all right, but bloody hell, the last two are way too hard.

sounds more like justice than a prison term anyway.

I'm not to wild for it.

I don't think it is an effective form of punishment at all, in the case of first time offenders you ostracize them and set up a backlash against society, perpetuating crime. In the case of hardened criminals, well they get an easy route off the hook. Hardcore criminals really do not care what society thinks of them, they can't be shamed or humiliated.

You also have to question whether or not this is vengeance or justice. Doing this kind of thing creates this sort of vigilante mentality, IIRC a sex offender who had to erect a sign in his yard identifying himself got his house burned down.

A better system would be to force convicts to do long hours of hard labor to the benefit of society, that way they atone for the damage and it offers an easy window for rehabilitation.

Well, for shoplifting, OK, but for paedophiles, that just invites people to take violent vengeance.

You know, I thought we had gotten past the scarlet letter punishments like, 300 years ago?

I suppose for the sandwich thing it's all right, but bloody hell, the last two are way too hard.

i understand that stuff like this was done 300 years ago. what i don't understand is why it is seen as somehow less humane or coercive than a prison term. at least it allows relative freedom of movement and, rather than a prison term that doesn't really foster an attitude of personal reflection, this actively encourages criminals to face what they've done.

Could it be used for punishing the incompetent? Like say - elected officials? If so, count me in. I'd love seeing a few well-known pols with dunce-caps perched atop their heads in public.

I'm not to wild for it.

I don't think it is an effective form of punishment at all, in the case of first time offenders you ostracize them and set up a backlash against society, perpetuating crime. In the case of hardened criminals, well they get an easy route off the hook. Hardcore criminals really do not care what society thinks of them, they can't be shamed or humiliated.
maybe

You also have to question whether or not this is vengeance or justice. Doing this kind of thing creates this sort of vigilante mentality, IIRC a sex offender who had to erect a sign in his yard identifying himself got his house burned down.
yeh, the vengence question is probably the only thing that concerns me about it. i have to say that having your house burnt down because people know what you've done beats getting bum raped in prison because people know what you've done and then getting your home burnt down when you get relaeased.

A better system would be to force convicts to do long hours of hard labor to the benefit of society, that way they atone for the damage and it offers an easy window for rehabilitation.

it's not really equivalent atonement tho. in any way. it doesn't encourage remorse it just builds muscles, or destroys the body, depending on the physical stature of the criminal. and there isn't really a shortage of labourers as far as i'm aware.

I'm going hardline on this one, like Chris Rock. I'm liberal on prostitution, but conservative on crime.

Commit a crime and you fucked up. We feel the need to make issues of our merits, so why not our demerits?

Incidentally, http://catchaperv.com

Shame based punishments don't work, as they primarily serve to alienate the people being shamed from their community, effectively destroying any hope of rehabilitation.
More importantly, considering how many he-man, vigilante-wannabes there are on NS alone, I wouldn't trust the general public with information about anyone's criminal activities.

• In Maryland, Texas, Georgia and California, shoplifters have been required to stand outside stores with signs announcing their crimes.
Not sure that would necessarily work. Sure, it's humiliating while they're standing there, but when they come back with a 9mm and a balaclava, who's going to be laughing then?

• In Escambia County, Fla., and in Ohio, drunken drivers are issued special license plates that identify them to fellow motorists.
This I like. At the very least, other drivers are likely to take more care when they see a car with such a license plate.

• In Houston and Corpus Christi, Texas, convicted sex offenders have been ordered to place signs on their front lawns that warn away children.
As has been said, this could easily lead to a violent backlash against the offender, who, if they've been in jail, has already been punished.

• In Pennsylvania last year, the driver of a car that caused a fatal accident was forced to carry a picture of the victim.
Hmmm...I know that if I killed someone in a car accident, I wouldn't need a picture of the victim to feel guilty about it. Having that guy be reminded of what he did every time he opens his wallet is a recipe for a suicide, if you ask me.

Not sure that would necessarily work. Sure, it's humiliating while they're standing there, but when they come back with a 9mm and a balaclava, who's going to be laughing then?
Me, and everyone else who pointed out that such punishments are ineffective and in direct opposition to any possible rehabilitation efforts.
Oh, how we shall laugh and laugh, and then we'll get shot and die, but there will have at least been those moments of vindication.

What are your thoughts on the usage of shame as a punishment? Such as forcing a criminal to hold up a sign advertising their crime, or criminals publicly announcing the crime they committed in a newspaper or TV.



• In Maryland, Texas, Georgia and California, shoplifters have been required to stand outside stores with signs announcing their crimes.

• In Escambia County, Fla., and in Ohio, drunken drivers are issued special license plates that identify them to fellow motorists.

• In Houston and Corpus Christi, Texas, convicted sex offenders have been ordered to place signs on their front lawns that warn away children.

• In Pennsylvania last year, the driver of a car that caused a fatal accident was forced to carry a picture of the victim.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-17-shame-sentencing_x.htm

I don't think it's very effective.
There's a reason we don't have stocks and pillories in every town square anymore.

Depends really. I have no problem with the first two, but the third invites itself towards a nasty backlash (and if one has done one's time in jail, that should be the end of it), and if they are a danger still to children they shouldn't be out on the streets at all.

Up here, if you have been convicted of sexual offences everyone on the street you live un must know.

Shame is not enough to change someone's behaviour, you need some good ol' superego to do that. That is, guilt. Shame as a punishment is ineffective.

You know, I thought we had gotten past the scarlet letter punishments like, 300 years ago?
One would have hoped so.

i'm not sure about this shame punishment. it seems like it would be fine to my mind but people say it doesn't work and that it is 'uncivilised'. now, i think prison doesn't work and is 'uncivilised', in what way is prison better than shame punishment? i want to know because i can't get my head round it. i would love to find a viable alternative to prison because it's one of the few problems i have with my own stance on political/social issues.

I don't think it's very effective.
There's a reason we don't have stocks and pillories in every town square anymore.
Damned feminazis and their liberal media, won't let us burn witches no more neither, harumph.

I'd say you needed a good public spanking for that, but with my luck, you'd LIKE it.

I don't think it's very effective.
There's a reason we don't have stocks and pillories in every town square anymore.

I would think that many people would prefer to have some public embarassment instead of jail time or hefty fines.

Huh. Shame. I wonder if we shoulda done that with the nazi war criminals at Nuremburg instead of hanging.

You know, Goebbels standing outside a synagogue with a sign on him. "I killed six million people. This is my punishment." All the children pointing and laughing.

That'd fix him!

Huh. Shame. I wonder if we shoulda done that with the nazi war criminals at Nuremburg instead of hanging.

You know, Goebbels standing outside a synagogue with a sign on him. "I killed six million people. This is my punishment." All the children pointing and laughing.

That'd fix him!

I'm sure that shame punishment wouldn't be for felonies. Never mind mass murder. So lets take a deep breath and take a step back, ok?

I'm sure that shame punishment wouldn't be for felonies. Never mind mass murder.

Well, damn. Because I was really proposing it should be!

I'm not to wild for it.

I don't think it is an effective form of punishment at all, in the case of first time offenders you ostracize them and set up a backlash against society, perpetuating crime. In the case of hardened criminals, well they get an easy route off the hook. Hardcore criminals really do not care what society thinks of them, they can't be shamed or humiliated.

You also have to question whether or not this is vengeance or justice. Doing this kind of thing creates this sort of vigilante mentality, IIRC a sex offender who had to erect a sign in his yard identifying himself got his house burned down.

A better system would be to force convicts to do long hours of hard labor to the benefit of society, that way they atone for the damage and it offers an easy window for rehabilitation.


wow,i actually agree with someone here..lol...the scarlet letter is way old school,and you cant teach a sociopath good manners.

if you hurt a kid you die...if you hurt an innocent.gues what...you die

but debtors prison and the crap they have now to be in control is a joke.

Depends really. I have no problem with the first two, but the third invites itself towards a nasty backlash (and if one has done one's time in jail, that should be the end of it), and if they are a danger still to children they shouldn't be out on the streets at all.


*agrees* :rolleyes:

As funny as some of the punishments might seem, I don't think shame would work. They were caught- that's enough shame right there. I'd say direct compensation of the crimes would do- for shoplifting, paying the store back. For murder that's life in prison easily, and that too for child molesters.

However, if you caused a fatal accident, carrying a picture of the victim is just plain wrong if you really feel sorry for what you (accidentally) did.

Yeah, and generally having a criminal record come up anytime you get to know someone, or apply for a job, tends to be fairly shameful.

Except to the shameless. But the shameless wouldn't be bothered with signs either.

What are your thoughts on the usage of shame as a punishment? Such as forcing a criminal to hold up a sign advertising their crime, or criminals publicly announcing the crime they committed in a newspaper or TV.



• In Maryland, Texas, Georgia and California, shoplifters have been required to stand outside stores with signs announcing their crimes.

• In Escambia County, Fla., and in Ohio, drunken drivers are issued special license plates that identify them to fellow motorists.

• In Houston and Corpus Christi, Texas, convicted sex offenders have been ordered to place signs on their front lawns that warn away children.

• In Pennsylvania last year, the driver of a car that caused a fatal accident was forced to carry a picture of the victim.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-08-17-shame-sentencing_x.htmembarrassing, short term... perfect for crimes that don't warrant jail time but done often enough to warrant more than a slap on the wrist.

I think it is a decent idea, only add it onto the punishments they already have. Make a shoplifter pay a fine AND have to where a sign like that, ect. It could be a good deterrant to minor crimes, and it couldn't hurt to try and add extra guilt to all crimes in general. However, we can't let it go TOO far, lest we cross the line into cruel and unusual punishment.