NationStates Jolt Archive

I feel lonely in this large world that is NS. Mainly because I'm the only Muslim, it seems, on this site.

Please tell me that there are some more Muslims? Or at least people thinking about becoming one? I don't want to be Mr. Ambassador for Islam on this site!

Islam - Staying MeansToAnEnd free since 622.

Nope.

Yep.

.

I feel lonely in this large world that is NS. Mainly because I'm the only Muslim, it seems, on this site.

Please tell me that there are some more Muslims? Or at least people thinking about becoming one? I don't want to be Mr. Ambassador for Islam on this site!

Islam - Staying MeansToAnEnd free since 622.

I feel your pain. I am the only Computerologist.

If it's any consolation, the precise flavour of your religion will be inconsequential to my ridicule of it. :)

I feel lonely in this large world that is NS. Mainly because I'm the only Muslim, it seems, on this site.

Please tell me that there are some more Muslims? Or at least people thinking about becoming one? I don't want to be Mr. Ambassador for Islam on this site!

Islam - Staying MeansToAnEnd free since 622.

I'm Muslim.

There's gotta be. They'll show up eventually.

On another more off-topic-yet-slightly-on-topic note, I'm dating a Muslim. :fluffle:

If it's any consolation, the precise flavour of your religion will be inconsequential to my ridicule of it. :)

And I shall slaughter you like a cow in a Mikey D's-owned "farm" debate-wise.

And oh crap; I just found that I can change the title of the thread by double clicking it!

There's gotta be. They'll show up eventually.

On another more off-topic-yet-slightly-on-topic note, I'm dating a Muslim. :fluffle:

How? I thought Muslim women couldn't date non-believers...

I'm Muslim.

As I see in your sig.
اسلم عليكم

I don't know, and it's a he.

And I shall slaughter you like a cow in a Mikey D's-owned "farm" debate-wise.

You and your wizard in the sky can bring it. I've sanity on my side. :)

Yesmusic, Soviestan, uuuhhh Keruvalia was one, but he's apostate-ed(sp.?)

they're all, or were muslims.

I don't know, and it's a he.

Oh, nevermind then.

Wait, you're a girl?!

And oh crap; I just found that I can change the title of the thread by double clicking it!
ZOMG! This will change the face of NSG! :eek:

Not really, but at least there won't be anymore stupid, carved-in-stone typos. And now titles can be updated to reflect changes in content!

Anyway, great find. :)

EDIT: Wait a tick... it takes me to the thread before I can change the title!

All is lost! :(

There's gotta be. They'll show up eventually.

On another more off-topic-yet-slightly-on-topic note, I'm dating a Muslim. :fluffle:

When you wanna marry, you're stuffed. You have to convert to marry a muslim. Then you can't unconvert or convert to a non-muslim religion without fear of death.

You and your wizard in the sky can bring it. I've sanity on my side. :)

And I have Allah. My God can beat your God (if you have one...)

Wow this just got so much more interesting...

No... I'm not a girl.

When you wanna marry, you're stuffed. You have to convert to marry a muslim. Then you can't unconvert or convert to a non-muslim religion without fear of death.

Not really. That's just mucked-up Afghanistan. They are the most claiming-to-be-Muslim-but-really-not country in the world.

Wow this just got so much more interesting...

No... I'm not a girl.

...

I'll end this with a +1...

And I have Allah. My God can beat your God (if you have one...)

Pfft Jesus parted the sea and brought people back to life. Your God just wrote a book talking about past events and claiming he's all-powerful.

Pfft Jesus parted the sea and brought people back to life. Your God just wrote a book talking about past events and claiming he's all-powerful.

It's all the same god, silly. :cool:

Not really. That's just mucked-up Afghanistan. They are the most claiming-to-be-Muslim-but-really-not country in the world.

Well the latter about being killed MIGHT not happen (depends on how strict the family and friends are), but it's true you have to convert to marry. There's a passage in the koran somewhere, so it's not just "an interpretation based on Mohammed's life"

And I have Allah.

*blinks, doesn't see him, calls nothing the nothing it is, then*

My God can beat your God (if you have one...)

Of course not. I outgrew Santa Clause and such assorted figments of people's imaginations when I was but three.

And with that, your thread may continue. Your religion has reached its ridicule quota for the day. I've Mormons and Scientologists to mock, next...

It's all the same god, silly. :cool:

No it's not. One exists. :)

It's all the same god, silly. :cool:

lol, so true.

Well the latter about being killed MIGHT not happen (depends on how strict the family and friends are), but it's true you have to convert to marry. There's a passage in the koran somewhere, so it's not just "an interpretation based on Mohammed's life"

No, in the Qur'an it states that "Muslim women cannot be married to non-Muslims". The female need not convert. I can marry a Christian and not be considered a sinner.

I know the Sura and Ayah too. Lemme find it...

*blinks, doesn't see him, calls nothing the nothing it is, then*



Of course not. I outgrew Santa Clause and such assorted figments of people's imaginations when I was but three.

And with that, your thread may continue. Your religion has reached its ridicule quota for the day. I've Mormons and Scientologists to mock, next...

Know what? You type as dumbly as Shakerspear.

*blinks, doesn't see him, calls nothing the nothing it is, then*



Of course not. I outgrew Santa Clause and such assorted figments of people's imaginations when I was but three.

And with that, your thread may continue. Your religion has reached its ridicule quota for the day. I've Mormons and Scientologists to mock, next...

No it's not. One exists. :)

well, I can see where this thread's going.

And with that, your thread may continue. Your religion has reached its ridicule quota for the day. I've Mormons and Scientologists to mock, next...

Never compare Islam to those...things (talking about the religion). They make just as much sense as saying "Mario Mario is God".

No, in the Qur'an it states that "Muslim women cannot be married to non-Muslims". The female need not convert. I can marry a Christian and not be considered a sinner.

I know the Sura and Ayah too. Lemme find it...

Oh yeh forgot about that sexist part. Also sexistly assumed Maraque was a bloke. Soz :)

well, I can see where this thread's going.

"The Bible is true because it says it's true."

"Steve, what part of 'There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His prophet' DON'T you understand?"

lol, loved that part of the Daily Show (saw it on I-Am-Bored).

Oh yeh forgot about that sexist part. Also sexistly assumed you were a bloke. Soz :)

How's that sexist? It's just a random assumption.

If you want to talk about sexism and religion, then I'll be glad to mur--err--I mean debate you.

I'm a Muslim.

It has always struck me as odd that, although I am a Muslim born and raised in an Arab country, I am more liberal than any convert to Islam I have ever met.

In fact, my liberalism is rather horrifying.

I'm devoted to the religion, yet I support abortion and gay marriage, and can prove that through my holy book.

Hmph.

So....Anymore Muslims? I count 2.

I'm a Muslim.

It has always struck me as odd that, although I am a Muslim born and raised in an Arab country, I am more liberal than any convert to Islam I have ever met.

In fact, my liberalism is rather horrifying.

I'm devoted to the religion, yet I support abortion and gay marriage, and can prove that through my holy book.

Hmph.That's cool. :)

Never compare Islam to those...things (talking about the religion).

Sorry, honey, but they're exactly the same.

Except of course that Scientology is somewhat original in its choice of deity. Mormonism and Islam, and Christianity for that matter, just plagiarised the Jewish deity. Really, is it hard to invent a new one? Just look at the Hindus and be inspired.

It has always struck me as odd that, although I am a Muslim born and raised in an Arab country, I am more liberal than any convert to Islam I have ever met.

That's not uncommon, for all religions.

And with that, your thread may continue. Your religion has reached its ridicule quota for the day. I've Mormons and Scientologists to mock, next...

Sorry, honey, but they're exactly the same.

Except of course that Scientology is somewhat original in its choice of deity. Mormonism and Islam, and Christianity for that matter, just plagiarised the Jewish deity. Really, is it hard to invent a new one? Just look at the Hindus and be inspired.

*cough* *cough*

I'm a Muslim.

It has always struck me as odd that, although I am a Muslim born and raised in an Arab country, I am more liberal than any convert to Islam I have ever met.

In fact, my liberalism is rather horrifying.

I'm devoted to the religion, yet I support abortion and gay marriage, and can prove that through my holy book.

Hmph.

Same here. Asalaam Alaykum.

Sorry, honey, but they're exactly the same.

Except of course that Scientology is somewhat original in its choice of deity. Mormonism and Islam, and Christianity for that matter, just plagiarised the Jewish deity. Really, is it hard to invent a new one? Just look at the Hindus and be inspired.

You contradicted yourself.

*cough* *cough*

Yeah? I did get in a shot at the Mormons and Christians in that one. The Scientologists believe in an alien called Xenu and alien spirits called thetans - you can't deny the originality of that, even if it is crappy sci-fi.

There, they got it, too. Now, I can sleep.

*cough* *cough*

Well, techincally he mocked all monothiests with that religion. Islam just happened to fit that catagory.

well muslim here too...

I feel lonely in this large world that is NS. Mainly because I'm the only Muslim, it seems, on this site.

Don't feel bad. I am the only hindu here (only Vaishnavist for sure) and I don't think I ever felt lonely....:)

You contradicted yourself.

When your deity does it, you turn a blind eye to it. Be a sport and do the same. (Not that I see where I contradicted myself, but use your skills of denial nevertheless.)

When your deity does it, you turn a blind eye to it. Be a sport and do the same.

Can you please provide an example of contradiction?

When your deity does it, you turn a blind eye to it. Be a sport and do the same. (Not that I see where I contradicted myself, but use your skills of denial nevertheless.)

Provide some examples from the Qur'an of these so-called "contradictions".

Can you please provide an example of contradiction?

There is that whole "thou shalt not kill" and then "thou shalt kill this and that and those and these" and so on. But, I digress. Sleep. Now.

There is that whole "thou shalt not kill" and then "thou shalt kill this and that and those and these" and so on. But, I digress. Sleep. Now.

No, please. You cannot go around claiming a religion is false without proof.

Please, give examples from the Qur'an (which you can download for free at freequran.org) of these so-called contradictions.

There is that whole "thou shalt not kill" and then "thou shalt kill this and that and those and these" and so on. But, I digress. Sleep. Now.

Technically, isn't it "Thou Shalt Not Murder", and not "Kill"? Its okay to kill in the name of your God or State, but not otherwise.

Icovir- You claimed he contridicted himself, therefore YOU have to show where he did, Fass doesn't have to prove anything.

Icovir- You claimed he contridicted himself, therefore YOU have to show where he did, Fass doesn't have to prove anything.

Gladly.

Sorry, honey, but they're exactly the same.

Except of course that Scientology is somewhat original in its choice of deity. Mormonism and Islam, and Christianity for that matter, just plagiarised the Jewish deity.

Not a debate-worthy contradiction, just a funny one.

There is that whole "thou shalt not kill" and then "thou shalt kill this and that and those and these" and so on. But, I digress. Sleep. Now.

Ah... Militant Antitheism... cute.

Technically, that... argument (if you can even call it that) you made is completely incorrect but, since you haven't the faintest clue where to begin supporting it, I won't even bother denying a claim you failed to back up. It would be quite unreasonable to expect that from me, no?

I find it more interesting to note the irony (or I guess you could call it hypocrisy?), in your previous posts. Allow me to elabor.. eh.. you know what. I will not argue with a person whose idea of debate is one-liners, sound-bites, and witticisms which, alas, are not even witty.

When your deity does it, you turn a blind eye to it. Be a sport and do the same. (Not that I see where I contradicted myself, but use your skills of denial nevertheless.)

Oh, yes, and also: If Islam is so sexist, why do so many women claim freedom? Why do so many Muslims condemn the sexist acts of the Taliban?

You can't have that many women brainwashed, can you?

You're not alone.

How's that sexist? It's just a random assumption.

If you want to talk about sexism and religion, then I'll be glad to mur--err--I mean debate you.

Lol you're funny. It will be even funnier when some asshat comes along who can't take a joke and starts flaming you for it.

Muslim here too. Suprised you would think you were the only one.

Provide some examples from the Qur'an of these so-called "contradictions".
Have some passages in the Quran been abrogated?
No, the Quran is perfect and can never be abrogated.
6:34
There is none to alter the decisions of Allah.

6:115
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words.

10:64
There is no changing the Words of Allah.

18:27
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words.

Yes, some verses have been abrogated.
2:106
Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.

16:101
And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.
How many angels talked to Mary?
One
19: 16-19
And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God- fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

More than one
3: 42
And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.
3: 45
(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).
How long is Allah's day?
1,000 years.
22:47
A Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon.
32:5
He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.
50,000 years.
70:4
Unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.
Who chooses the devils to be the friends of disbelievers?
Allah
7:27
We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.
The disbelievers
7:30
A party hath He led aright, while error hath just hold over (another) party, for lo! they choose the devils for protecting supporters instead of Allah and deem that they are rightly guided.
Will all Jews and Christians go to hell?
Yes, all Christians will go to hell.
3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
No, some will not.
2:62
Those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

5:69
Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
How should Jews and Christians be treated?
With kindness and patience.
2:109
Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers.... Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command.
By Fighting against them
9:29
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah.
Which was created first, heaven or earth?
Heaven
79:27-30
Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. And after that He spread the earth....
Earth
2:29
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens.

41:9-12
Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ... Then turned He to the heaven ... Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days ....
Will Allah forgive anyone for anything?
Yes, Allah will forgive those tho seek pardon.
4:110
Yet whoso doeth evil or wrongeth his own soul, then seeketh pardon of Allah, will find Allah Forgiving, Merciful.

39:153
Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.
No, there are some things and some people that he will never forgive.
4:48
Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him.

4:116
Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him.

4:137
Those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them.

4:168
Those who disbelieve and deal in wrong, Allah will never forgive them.

9:80
Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them. That is because they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger.

47:34
Those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them.

63:3-6
They believed, then disbelieved, therefore their hearts are sealed so that they understand not. ... Whether thou ask forgiveness for them or ask not forgiveness for them is all one for them; Allah will not forgive them.
How many angels fought with Muhammad?
3000
3:124, 126
When thou didst say unto the believers: Is it not sufficient for you that your Lord should support you with three thousand angels sent down (to your help)? ...
Allah ordained this only as a message of good cheer for you, and that thereby your hearts might be at rest - Victory cometh only from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise.
1000
8:9-10
When ye sought help of your Lord and He answered you (saying): I will help you with a thousand of the angels, rank on rank. Allah appointed it only as good tidings, and that your hearts thereby might be at rest. Victory cometh only by the help of Allah. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Is each person be free to believe as he or she wishes?
Yes.
There is no compulsion in religion. 2:256

Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. 18:29

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. 109:6
Yes, but disbelievers ...
are not loved by Allah.
Allah loveth not the disbelievers. 3:32

He loveth not the disbelievers. 30:45

will be tormented forever in hell.
Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place! 18:29

Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter. 3:85

will be shunned by believers.
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve ... choose not friends from them. 4:89

Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you? 4:144

Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. ... He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. 5:51

Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve? 60:1

are the enemies of believers.
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

If they ... assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief. ...
Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them 9:12-14

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah. 9:29

Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123

will be killed by believers.
They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve ... take them and kill them wherever ye find them. 4:89

Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5
How long did it take to create the heavens and the earth?
Six Days
7:54
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days.

10:3
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days.

11:7
And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days.

50:38
We created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six Days.

57:4
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days.
Eight Days
41:9-12
Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ... He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days ... Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days....
What was man created from?
Water
And He it is Who hath created man from water... 25:54

Allah hath created every animal of water. 24:45

A Clot
In the name of thy Lord Who createth ... man from a clot. 96:1-2

Clay or Mud
We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered.... 15:26

He began the creation of man from clay. 32:7

When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire. 38:71

He created man of clay like the potter's. 55:14

Dust
And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely! 30:20

Allah created you from dust.... 35:11
Is Allah kind and merciful?
Yes
1:1, 3, 163
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

2:37, 54
He is the relenting, the Merciful.

2:128
Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.

2:143
For Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.

2:160
I am the Relenting, the Merciful.

2:173, 182, 192, 199, 218

Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
No
2:7
Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering.

2:17
Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see.

4:56
Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment.

4:168-9
Lo! those who disbelieve and deal wrong, Allah will never forgive them, neither will He guide them unto a road, Except the road of hell, wherein they will abide for ever. And that is ever easy for Allah.

5:33
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.

7:50
And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance).
Does Allah make distinctions between His messengers?
Yes.
2:253
Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree.
No.
2:285
We make no distinction between any of His messengers.
Who was the first Muslim?
Abraham/Jacob.
2:132
The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).
Moses.
7:143
And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers.
Muhammad.
39:12
And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Did one of Noah's sons die in the flood?
Yes
11:42-43
Noah cried unto his son and he was standing aloof - O my son! Come ride with us, and be not with the disbelievers. He said: I shall betake me to some mountain that will save me from the water. (Noah) said: This day there is none that saveth from the commandment of Allah save him on whom He hath had mercy. And the wave came in between them, so he was among the drowned.
No
21:76
And Noah, when he cried of old, We heard his prayer and saved him and his household from the great affliction.

37:75-77
And Noah verily prayed unto Us, and gracious was the Hearer of his prayer. And We saved him and his household from the great distress, And made his seed the survivors.
Does everything obey Allah?
Yes, everything obeys him.
30:26
Unto Him belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth. All are obedient unto Him.
No, Iblis disobeyed Allah.
2:34
We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever.
When did the people repent for worshiping the golden calf?
Before Moses returned.
7: 148-150
And the folk of Moses, after (he left them), chose a calf (for worship), (made) out of their ornaments, of saffron hue, which gave a lowing sound. Saw they not that it spake not unto them nor guided them to any way? They chose it, and became wrong-doers. And when they feared the consequences thereof and saw that they had gone astray, they said: Unless our Lord have mercy on us and forgive us, we verily are of the lost. And when Moses returned unto his people....
After Moses returned.
20: 88-91
Then he produced for them a calf, of saffron hue, which gave forth a lowing sound. And they cried: This is your god and the god of Moses, but he hath forgotten. See they not, then, that it returneth no saying unto them and possesseth for them neither hurt nor use? And Aaron indeed had told them beforehand: O my people! Ye are but being seduced therewith, for lo! your Lord is the Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order. They said: We shall by no means cease to be its votaries till Moses return unto us.
Could Allah have a son?
Yes.
39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
No.
6:100-1
Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?
Can a man treat his wives fairly?
Yes, it is possible.
Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess.
No, you will not be able to do so.
4:129
Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so).
Did Pharaoh's wizards believe in Moses and Allah?
Yes.
7:120 - 122
And the wizards fell down prostrate, Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron.
No.
10:83
But none trusted Moses, save some scions of his people, (and they were) in fear of Pharaoh and their chiefs, that he would persecute them.

What? :cool:

Notch one more for the NS Muslims.

GreaterPacificNations: I see.. the usual quotes.

I will rebutt them for you, one by one, for I have encountered them all before.

This will be one heck of a long post. But Turkey Day is coming up, and I am staying on campus. You will get a full reply by then.

~GMB

[edit] - by the way, I implore you to restrain yourselves. Do not troll and do not flamebait (this applies to all sides). This has the potential of being a thoroughly civilized, heck, even brilliant discussion.

Gladly.
Not a debate-worthy contradiction, just a funny one.

Sorry, his actual claim stands as non-contridictory. He says all religions are the same; They believe in a Supreme Being. That was his claim. Scientology believes in a Supreme called Xenu. Making it the same as the others.

He never claimed that they were 100% identical. Only that Hubbardites see their version of God/Yahweh/Allah/Zeus/Jupiter etc, as an omnipotent alien being. Beyond that, they are the same idea.

Damn, I can't believe I am defending Fass.

...and so it begins, yet again.

GreaterPacificNations: I see.. the usual quotes.

I will rebutt them for you, one by one, for I have encountered them all before.

I'd like to see that. What's your rebuttal gonna be? "A wizard did it!"

...and so it begins, yet again.


C'mon, are know we aren't particularly original around here. Tis part of our charm, doncha know.:D

I'm a Muslim.

It has always struck me as odd that, although I am a Muslim born and raised in an Arab country, I am more liberal than any convert to Islam I have ever met.

In fact, my liberalism is rather horrifying.

I'm devoted to the religion, yet I support abortion and gay marriage, and can prove that through my holy book.

Hmph.

That's not unusual. I've found it's true of many Muslims. Just as it's true of many Christians, Jews, etc...

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?

I think an Infidel is someone who is not Muslim, and actively seeks to destroy it. For some it seems infidel means anyone that says anything bad about Islam. Meh, some muslims can be nutters sometimes... :p

Btw, Im christian :p just thought I'd let you know

@ One of the Muslims

Let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?

Never compare Islam to those...things (talking about the religion). They make just as much sense as saying "Mario Mario is God".

You must realize, to at least a portion of atheists, all religions sound like 'my magic faery/faeries loves me more then yours does'.

I feel lonely in this large world that is NS. Mainly because I'm the only Muslim, it seems, on this site.

Please tell me that there are some more Muslims? Or at least people thinking about becoming one? I don't want to be Mr. Ambassador for Islam on this site!

Islam - Staying MeansToAnEnd free since 622.
Soviestan, Yesmusic and Colodia are Muslims.

@ One of the Muslims

Let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?

Nope.

The Qur'an, Surah 4 Ayah 29 says:

"And do not kill yourselves (nor one another). Surely Allah is most merciful to you".

And if you read that you are supposed to in any Hadith, then I can refute you by sayign that the Qur'an says that it is the only and complete (not links) word of God. Which basically means that you live your life by the Qur'an and not the Hadith.

And there is no English translation for Jihad, but the closest one is "Holy Struggle". According to the above verse, it looks like anybody who claims that Jihad is killing an "infidel" is mistaken.

I'd like to see that. What's your rebuttal gonna be? "A wizard did it!"

Which is why nobody wants to debate with you.

No, the Quran is perfect and can never be abrogated.
6:34
There is none to alter the decisions of Allah.

6:115
Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words.

10:64
There is no changing the Words of Allah.

18:27
And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words.

Yes, some verses have been abrogated.
2:106
Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.

16:101
And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.

That one's easy. Remember this before I start answering it: The Royal "We" is used in the Qur'an (so We really means I when Allah is speaking).

The first verses (under which it says "The Qur'an is perfect and can never be abrogated) are stating simply that no man can change the words of God.

The second set of verses state that God alone can change His words (We = God).

There is no contradiction there. No man can change the words of God, but God can change His own words and replace them with a better one. And, might I add, that the first set of verses have nothing to do with abrogation; just with whether or not man can alter the words of God.

Oh, yes, and also: If Islam is so sexist, why do so many women claim freedom? Why do so many Muslims condemn the sexist acts of the Taliban?

You can't have that many women brainwashed, can you?

ivocir really dun bother explaining Islam to some of this ppl.... you gonna die of a heart attack if you do cuz wadever u say they have sumthing to say back. i mean if we are confident of our faith we dun need other ppl approval or understanding. i think we mite do better explaining Islam to muslims with bullshit ppl like al-qaeda and the taliban running around we must ensure that the majority of muslims do not follow thier extreme views but follow Islam and the Quraan at its fundamentals and most basic. and of course we better stop our brothers from killing each other.

How many angels talked to Mary?
One
19: 16-19
And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God- fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

More than one
3: 42
And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.
3: 45
(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

Who's to say that on that day, Jibril (Gabriel) came to Mary and later on, after he had made the "Annunciation", the other angels began saying "O Mary!" etc. Also, in the second set of verses, it says nothing about the angels actually visiting Mary. They could've been in heaven saying that.

ivocir really dun bother explaining Islam to some of this ppl.... you gonna die of a heart attack if you do cuz wadever u say they have sumthing to say back. i mean if we are confident of our faith we dun need other ppl approval or understanding. i think we mite do better explaining Islam to muslims with bullshit ppl like al-qaeda and the taliban running around we must ensure that the majority of muslims do not follow thier extreme views but follow Islam and the Quraan at its fundamentals and most basic. and of course we better stop our brothers from killing each other.

You've got a point. People have been telling others (not all, most) about how Islam is a religion of peace for 5 years now, and nobody wants to listen.

You've got a point. People have been telling others (not all, most) about how Islam is a religion of peace for 5 years now, and nobody wants to listen.

i see that islam is a religion of peace, like most religions initially. but like most religions, there are extremists, which make it dangerous, again like most religions.

i see that islam is a religion of peace, like most religions initially. but like most religions, there are extremists, which make it dangerous, again like most religions.

I know, and people like you I applaude because you aren't arrogant and stubborn. I'll give you 5,000,000,000,000 Cookies :D

I know, and people like you I applaude because you aren't arrogant and stubborn. I'll give you 5,000,000,000,000 Cookies :D

sweet i love cookies.

I know, and people like you I applaude because you aren't arrogant and stubborn. I'll give you 5,000,000,000,000 Cookies :D
I think you might want to rethink those cookies. :p

You've got a point. People have been telling others (not all, most) about how Islam is a religion of peace for 5 years now, and nobody wants to listen.

i think it woudl help if most muslims start behaving the way islam tells them to. i mean stupid laws in pakistan abt a women needing to produce 4 male witness for rape is just absurd. in reality it is for adultry and its impossible to get 4 male witness unless well it was sumthing kinky and in reality both male and female get punished. in the time of the prophet there was only 1 person who was charged with adultry and hell the prophet even praised her saying that her faith was stong for confessiong. u see its the stupid things we do. we mix up culture and religion. personaly no point teling dem Islam is a religion of peace, they have got to see it and feel it and it would help if we muslims would really start behaving like real muslims. what they dun see is islam is a religion of peace... but it is also a religion that sanctions us to defend oursevles when our rights are violated for in the Quraan persecution is worse than slaughter

I might be a Discordian...

Apparently, there's loads of us fools about..

Proudly apostate!

1,000 years.
22:47
A Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon.
32:5
He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.

50,000 years.
70:4
Unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.

You took the Surah 70 Ayah 4 (70:4) out of context. It really states:

"The angels and the Ruh [Jibreal(Gabriel)] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is 50,000 years".

Who's to say that a day to the angels and Jibrael (Gabriel) is 50,000 years, while Allah's day is 1,000 years? That verse was taken out of context (because it cut off the beginning which answers the alleged "contradiction").

Who chooses the devils to be the friends of disbelievers?
Allah
7:27
We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.

The disbelievers
7:30
A party hath He led aright, while error hath just hold over (another) party, for lo! they choose the devils for protecting supporters instead of Allah and deem that they are rightly guided.

I see that in 7:30 they deliberatly left out a comma. The verse really should say:

"A party hath He led aright, while error hath hold over (another) party, for lo! they choose the devils for protecting supporters, instead of Allah, and deem they are rightly guided.

With the commas in place (which is how it's supposed to be read anyway, even without the commas), it answers the "contradiction". Allah made the devils the "protecting friends" of the non-believers while the believers, instead of Allah, chose the wrong path (I.E "chose the devil for protecting supporters").

I see that in 7:30 they deliberatly left out a comma. The verse really should say:

"A party hath He led aright, while error hath hold over (another) party, for lo! they choose the devils for protecting supporters, instead of Allah, and deem they are rightly guided.

With the commas in place (which is how it's supposed to be read anyway, even without the commas), it answers the "contradiction". Allah made the devils the "protecting friends" of the non-believers while the believers, instead of Allah, chose the wrong path (I.E "chose the devil for protecting supporters").

its best if it can be explain in arabic so that no meaning is lost in transltion eh.. too bad we dun understand it =P

I'm Muslim.

Will all Jews and Christians go to hell?
Yes, all Christians will go to hell.
3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

No, some will not.
2:62
Those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

5:69
Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

Answer is from http://www.islamworld.net/heavenhell.htm
Those Who Will Not Remain in Hell Forever


(1) Definition: Those who will enter Hell and be brought forth at a later
time are the monotheists who did not associate anything with Allaah (swt) but
they committed many sins that far outweigh their good deeds. They will enter
Hell for a period known only to Allaah (swt), then they will be brought forth
through the intercession of those who intercede, and Allaah (swt) will bring
forth, through His Mercy, people who never did any good at all.

I'm Muslim.

Cool. More Muslims!

I bet you MeansToAnEnd hates this thread :D

How should Jews and Christians be treated?
With kindness and patience.
2:109
Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers.... Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command.

By Fighting against them
9:29
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah.

I'm fighting against you right now (debate-wise). Fighting doesn't always mean to go out and hurt someone. Am I not treating you with kidness and patience (I'm not swearing at you, I'm answering your objections, etc.) but yet, I'm also fighting you (I am debating you).

Which was created first, heaven or earth?
Heaven
79:27-30
Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof. And after that He spread the earth....

Earth
2:29
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens.

41:9-12
Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days ... Then turned He to the heaven ... Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days ....

1) Who's to say that He, after creating Earth, turned to make improvements to Heaven? Just like if I draw a bike, then begin drawing a house, and go back to improve and/or finish that bike, I still drew the bike first.

2) 41:9-12 is taken out of context so that it agrees with the rebutals (notice all the 3 dots). It really goes:

9: "Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds."

10: "He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance)."

11: "Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience.""

12: "So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."

I'll leave you to see how that "contradiction" is invalid.

NOTE: Qur'an translation came from http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/041.asp

Will Allah forgive anyone for anything?
Yes, Allah will forgive those tho seek pardon.
4:110
Yet whoso doeth evil or wrongeth his own soul, then seeketh pardon of Allah, will find Allah Forgiving, Merciful.

39:153
Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

No, there are some things and some people that he will never forgive.
snip

That one is easy to answer, also.

Allah forgives all sins, but it's not like in Christianity where God forgives all sins no matter what. Allah chooses to forgive sins or not to forgive them. He forgives all sins, yes (which means that you won't be doomed because you commited a sin) but there are some sins which He doesn't forgive them (because He chooses whether or not to).

In a nutshell, Allah chooses to forgive or not to forgive. The first set of ayat show that Allah can forgive, while the second set shows that Allah doesn't always forgive.

I'll answer the rest later. Later as in probably later today.

Proudly apostate!
So what made you one?

So what made you one?

Reason and Sanity.

Reason and Sanity.

lol. Do you mean that you are Muslim, but you just don't practice it (i.e claiming your Muslim but not doing the 5 salats)?

lol. Do you mean that you are Muslim, but you just don't practice it (i.e claiming your Muslim but not doing the 5 salats)?

I think he means he stopped believeing in Allah, or something similar.

I'm Muslim.

It all makes sense now! :mad:

It all makes sense now! :mad:

lol, I haven't seen him around too much, but seeing that he has a Qur'an quote in his sig made it pretty obvious...

And Sovietstan: Thanks for clearing that up.

man Ivocir looking at your replies to thier post.. im just like WOW... ive still got so much to learn!

It all makes sense now! :mad:

I thought you had died and gone to Mexico!