NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been kind of sad for a while that I can't seem to combine everything I want to study in college into any kind of career. I'm extremely interested in religion of every sort (I'm as comfortable with hindus as with wiccans, quakers, sufis, whatever), I *love* the idea of learning dead languages. I used to think I wanted to be a monk...with only the slight problem that I'm gay and closer to a pagan than any sort of christian. unfortuantely, I can't study the *truly* fascinating subjects like theology, philosophy, ancient history, and dead languages because I really want to help people - work for a charity, be a teacher/caregiver in an orphanage - do african poverty relief, any or all of the above. to have a career in charity of some sort, I'd probably need psychology degrees, a masters in social work - probably do alot of paperwork and deal with alot of beaurocratic government bullshit, be frustrated all the time...

now, I think, what career combines extensive study of religion and history with charity, counciling, and social-work elements? obviously I should go into the church. I'm gay, though, so that complicates things. what church that's large and stable enough to support the kinds of charitable initiatives I'm intersted in would also not expect me to become a bible-thumping fundie? are there any liberal enough that aren't just blasé social clubs with no spiritual element to them? obviously from the title of this post, I've decided the Anglican/Episcopalian church is probably ideal. I just found an anglican church not three minutes from my house - apperently liberal enough they have classes on understanding islam? hrm....

You should go for it. But personally, I think that if you want to devote your life to helping people, there are much better ways of realizing that goal than working at a church.

Start a cult. EDIT: No really, start a cult: you get total control over the process. If you're lucky enough, you might be able to get tax-exempt status from the IRS for your humanitarian work.

Personally, putting my Muslim (*cough*MeansToAnEnd*cough*) beliefs aside, I think that the best way to preach a religion is going to the places where people other than believers go.

I mean common, when's the last time you've seen a non-Muslim in a Mosque, or a non-Christian in a church? Go preach in places where there aren't believers. Working in a church will have you working only with believers.

Oh yeah, and to that Anglican reference:

I was an Anglican before I became Muslim. They aren't too much better when it comes to other Christian churches. They are only less strict on the position of women in the church.

My parents are Episcopal. Does that count? :p

There was a time when my father was considering becoming a preist (Ironic, considering that I, his eldest son, am an anti-theistic agnostic), so I've picked up some from him.

I do know that a majority of Episcopals have no problem whatsoever with homosexuality (although there is a vocal minority who do) and that they are a very, very rational branch of Christianity.

However, if you have problems with the traditional aspects of Catholicism, you'll have many of the same problems with Anglicanism/Episcopalianism.

Personally, putting my Muslim (*cough*MeansToAnEnd*cough*) aside, I think that the best way to preach a religion is going to the places where people other than believers go.

I mean common, when's the last time you've seen a non-Muslim in a Mosque, or a non-Christian in a church? Go preach in places where there aren't believers. Working in a church will have you working only with believers.

Certain denominations of the Christian religion (such as Church of England) help people from other religions, and people who are not religious.

Certain denominations of the Christian religion (such as Church of England) help people from other religions, and people who are not religious.

I know, so do Mosques. All religious houses of worship invite non-believers in. The problem is, non-believers don't come in.

I know, so do Mosques. All religious houses of worship invite non-believers in. The problem is, non-believers don't come in.


Which is why some go out to non-believers, hence the Christian "soup runs" you may have heard of (also done by non-Christians) for homeless people

Ohhhh, you're telling me about it. Growing up in a family full of Jehovah's Witnesses isn't exactly a subtle life preaching-wise.

However, if you have problems with the traditional aspects of Catholicism, you'll have many of the same problems with Anglicanism/Episcopalianism.

oh, no, I love catholicism...at least the iconography and styles of worship. I'm not even catholic and I'm crossing myself and lighting incense before statues of the saints and such...I love catholic praxis and worship - it's the authoritarian church structure and occasionally rather punative theology I object to...

Personally, putting my Muslim (*cough*MeansToAnEnd*cough*) beliefs aside, I think that the best way to preach a religion is going to the places where people other than believers go.

I mean common, when's the last time you've seen a non-Muslim in a Mosque, or a non-Christian in a church? Go preach in places where there aren't believers. Working in a church will have you working only with believers.

oh, I'm not remotely intersted in converting people. in fact that idea kind of turns me off...I want to do the counciling and the poverty relief and all that - I'd actually prefer they stayed whatever religion they are already. the only belief systems that particularly bother me are atheism and fundamentalism...which are practically the same thing, most of the time.

How comfortable you are with the Anglican Church will depend entirely on which individual church you go to. The Church is such a wide spectrum, from the Bible-bashing evangelicals to the highest Anglo-Catholics to the 'freest' Liberals.

At my church, it sounds like you would fit right in; there would be no problem with sexuality, as I doubt that many people would ask about it, let alone care. We are a relatively high church as well, so we do follow much tradition and maintain many catholic elements of worship. At another church down the road, however, they are much more evangelical, and a happy-clappy church as well, so you are much less likely to fit in.

My advice would be to go along and see how you feel. Don't go in with the attitude "I'm gay and I want to be ordained!", as that would probably be a bit confrontational. Just get to know the church and its people, and then, if you're happy, approach the vicar in the future about the possibility of being put forward for selection. And, always remember; ordination is a calling of you from God by name; it's not simply meant to be a 'career'.

I've been kind of sad for a while that I can't seem to combine everything I want to study in college into any kind of career. I'm extremely interested in religion of every sort (I'm as comfortable with hindus as with wiccans, quakers, sufis, whatever), I *love* the idea of learning dead languages. I used to think I wanted to be a monk...with only the slight problem that I'm gay and closer to a pagan than any sort of christian. unfortuantely, I can't study the *truly* fascinating subjects like theology, philosophy, ancient history, and dead languages because I really want to help people - work for a charity, be a teacher/caregiver in an orphanage - do african poverty relief, any or all of the above. to have a career in charity of some sort, I'd probably need psychology degrees, a masters in social work - probably do alot of paperwork and deal with alot of beaurocratic government bullshit, be frustrated all the time...

now, I think, what career combines extensive study of religion and history with charity, counciling, and social-work elements? obviously I should go into the church. I'm gay, though, so that complicates things. what church that's large and stable enough to support the kinds of charitable initiatives I'm intersted in would also not expect me to become a bible-thumping fundie? are there any liberal enough that aren't just blasé social clubs with no spiritual element to them? obviously from the title of this post, I've decided the Anglican/Episcopalian church is probably ideal. I just found an anglican church not three minutes from my house - apperently liberal enough they have classes on understanding islam? hrm....

Why not just become a Unitarian Minister?

I've been kind of sad for a while that I can't seem to combine everything I want to study in college into any kind of career. I'm extremely interested in religion of every sort (I'm as comfortable with hindus as with wiccans, quakers, sufis, whatever), I *love* the idea of learning dead languages. I used to think I wanted to be a monk...with only the slight problem that I'm gay and closer to a pagan than any sort of christian. unfortuantely, I can't study the *truly* fascinating subjects like theology, philosophy, ancient history, and dead languages because I really want to help people - work for a charity, be a teacher/caregiver in an orphanage - do african poverty relief, any or all of the above. to have a career in charity of some sort, I'd probably need psychology degrees, a masters in social work - probably do alot of paperwork and deal with alot of beaurocratic government bullshit, be frustrated all the time...

now, I think, what career combines extensive study of religion and history with charity, counciling, and social-work elements? obviously I should go into the church. I'm gay, though, so that complicates things. what church that's large and stable enough to support the kinds of charitable initiatives I'm intersted in would also not expect me to become a bible-thumping fundie? are there any liberal enough that aren't just blasé social clubs with no spiritual element to them? obviously from the title of this post, I've decided the Anglican/Episcopalian church is probably ideal. I just found an anglican church not three minutes from my house - apperently liberal enough they have classes on understanding islam? hrm....


I know a non-denominational chaplian at one of the local hospitals, she is a lesbian, and agnostic, but learned enough about various religions to be able to help people in their time of need. Maybe you could do that?

Hmm, I could plug the Church of Sweden. They do all the charity stuff you mentioned, are Lutheran and pretty liberal; the church blesses gay unions, allows gay priests (and allows the gay priests to get married, of course), is generally gay friendly and so on. Really, for a church its levels of evil are quite low. They have an office and a church in New York. (http://www.swedishchurch.net/index2.asp?id=1)

You'd have to learn Swedish, but you sound like a language buff, so that should be just an additional boon.

However, if you have problems with the traditional aspects of Catholicism, you'll have many of the same problems with Anglicanism/Episcopalianism.


For the record, as a Catholic, I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. I merely believe that having gay sex is. I believe that homosexuality is a temptation just like anything else.

i think you are making a mistake in thinking that all of your interests should be covered in your choice of profession.

it would be better to decide to get a phd in theology or in ancient languages and teach at a public university putting your interests in charity work as a non professional avocation.

or to find out just what qualifications major non-religous charities have for their management personelle and work towards those and keep your religious and language interests as side avocation.

it makes no sense to involve yourself in a religious organization that professes theology that you dont subscribe to. the anglicans want people who actually are anglicans and who believe in the tenets of the anglican church.

you can expect to go through several careers in your life, at least one you arent even thinking about now and most of which are not covered by whatever degree you end up getting. study what you like and let the future job thing take care of itself. thats whats going to happen anyway.

I really think it's a bad idea to try to become a cleric in a religion that you don't believe in. How will that one end up for you down the road? Are you sure they won't ask you to make a promise to be true to the Christian faith?
I mean I know they're the Anglican Church but if you're "closer to pagan than any kind of Christian", being a pastor of a Christian (albeit non-traditional) church is probably not a good idea.

Just think about it, if you believe that Jesus is the savior and in the holy trinity etc. and that there aren't any other gods, then maybe it's for you. If you believe in other gods, the practice of magic, or think that Jesus was just a really good guy, then it's almost definitely not for you.

And I know the Anglicans will soften up on anything they are pressured into and right now they're not making any fuss about homosexual relations (even though it's blatantly taught against in the bible and traditional Christian teaching) who knows what the future could bring? The Anglicans had a revival at some point where they decided to become "more Catholic" and adopted liturgical traditions of the Catholic Church. Who knows if they might adopt some of the theological traditions someday?

The thing is, if you're a practicing homosexual with pagan beliefs a Christian pastor just isn't the right place. If you really want to do charity work try joining the peace corps if you're from the USA.

http://www.peacecorps.gov/

If you're not from USA you can join one of the alternatives...I can't vouch for any of them though.

The Anglies and the ‘Piscies are by far the most liberal denominations, certainly here in the UK, though the Church of Scotland, IMO, isn’t that far off (but somehow I doubt you’re in Scotland). However, it looks like the American/UK Anglies’ attitude towards homosexual priests may well split the denomination in two, no matter how hard Rowan Williams tries to keep ‘em talking at the same table.

...Bible-bashing evangelicals...

:confused:

I think you mean Bible-thumping.

Bible-bashers are those who try to prove the Bible wrong.

I've seen some Southern Baptists tear the bible apart with bizzare interpretations. I should start calling them bible bashers, it would be funny.

:confused:

I think you mean Bible-thumping.

Bible-bashers are those who try to prove the Bible wrong.

Whatever makes sense to you. Bible-bashing would make sense in the context I used it here.

For the record, as a Catholic, I don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. I merely believe that having gay sex is. I believe that homosexuality is a temptation just like anything else.

Oh, no. I didn't mean like that. I meant traditional aspects like the very ritualized mass, the very flamboyently crafted churches (like the National Cathedral), and the other traits that make Episcopalianism similar to Catholicism, rather than the other Protestant churches.