NationStates Jolt Archive

In MTAE's thread about the student in California, I notice a good few people who say that because a student was breaking a rule, he deserved what he got.

Now, the problem with this is that it places a worrying level of trust in the authorities. The police are as flawed as anyone. They didn't do the right thing just because they're the police.

It also completely ignores the concept of reasonable use of force. In some cases where a suspect is aggressive, tasers may be necessary, but this case is an example of frivolous use of the weapon.

"Well, he broke the rules" you may say, but is police officer justified in gunning someone down for J-walking? Should Thatcher have nuked Dublin in response to IRA attacks in Britain?

I don't think anyone, not even MTAE, is arguing that he should have got Tazered just because he broke the rules.

I don't see how anyone can make a judgement on that vide since you can't tell what the fuck is happeneing anyway.

"Well, he broke the rules" you may say, but is police officer justified in gunning someone down for J-walking? Should Thatcher have nuked Dublin in response to IRA attacks in Britain?

Last time I checked, gunning someone down or nuking a large city causes permanent injury. Employing a Taser does no such damage. Not only did he "break the rules," but he was extremely aggressive, dangerous, disobedient, and disrespectful. I noticed that a similar topic was posted in the NewGrounds politics forum, and I saw an excellent response by Draconias.

That doesn't seem like abuse at all to me. You're just trying to overjustify the student's position-- but he was obviously trying to provoke trouble. The police did not tase him for 5 seconds, as you claim, and when they initially told him to stand up they were trying to pull him up. You can see them trying to lift him to his feet, but he refuses to actually stand. He is obviously being just the kind of little ass that police hate to deal with, and he wasn't doing anything willingly. If he was high-strung enough to scream "GET OFF OF ME!" when the police tried to escort him out, he was a troublemaker. Plus, the video is pretty inconclusive on most of it because of bad angles or no line of sight.

http://newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=606152

In MTAE's thread about the student in California, I notice a good few people who say that because a student was breaking a rule, he deserved what he got.

Now, the problem with this is that it places a worrying level of trust in the authorities. The police are as flawed as anyone. They didn't do the right thing just because they're the police.

It also completely ignores the concept of reasonable use of force. In some cases where a suspect is aggressive, tasers may be necessary, but this case is an example of frivolous use of the weapon.

"Well, he broke the rules" you may say, but is police officer justified in gunning someone down for J-walking? Should Thatcher have nuked Dublin in response to IRA attacks in Britain?

Using a taser does no physical damage. It only hurts a great deal.

This is a better alternative than to attempt to physically restrain him and risk broken bones or worse.

Last time I checked, gunning someone down or nuking a large city causes permanent injury. Employing a Taser does no such damage.

Please provide links and credible references that support this assertion.
Sounds a lot like Bush-Cheney speak to me.


Not only did he "break the rules," but he was extremely aggressive, dangerous, disobedient, and disrespectful.

YOU seem to be particularly convinced of this. Again, please provide credible links and references that describe the event in such detail that this is the obvious conclusion.

I noticed that a similar topic was posted in the NewGrounds politics forum, and I saw an excellent response by Draconias.

http://newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=606152

This particular response, by these particular "cops" to this incident was excessive. EVEN IF the student's behavior was as egregious as you claim.

Also, obedience and compliance ARE NOT compulsory to rightousness. There are definately times when disobedience and disrespect ARE EXACTLY what is called for.

Last time I checked, gunning someone down or nuking a large city causes permanent injury. Employing a Taser does no such damage. Not only did he "break the rules," but he was extremely aggressive, dangerous, disobedient, and disrespectful. I noticed that a similar topic was posted in the NewGrounds politics forum, and I saw an excellent response by Draconias.



http://newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=606152

MTAE: Several people have died and hundreds have been injured from tazer shocks. Just recently in DE we had a person tazered four times, then shot to death by police because he wouldn't move (tazering is known to cause stunning).

Using a taser does no physical damage. It only hurts a great deal.

This is a better alternative than to attempt to physically restrain him and risk broken bones or worse.

No one has provided ANY plausable reason why he needed to be RESTRAINED at all.

Last time I checked, gunning someone down or nuking a large city causes permanent injury. Employing a Taser does no such damage.
Tasers do cause permanent injury and even death on occassion, but that's not the issue. You have no proof that he was attempting assault.

This is a better alternative than to attempt to physically restrain him and risk broken bones or worse.
Restrain him from doing what? All he did was fail to produce an ID card.

Restrain him from doing what? All he did was fail to produce an ID card.

I'll concede that injuries are connected to taser use. My opinion was the product of the taser company dis-information:-)

However, If you are required to produce an id card to be in a facility, failing to produce one upon demand means that you may be trespassing.

If the police suspect that a crime has been committed (trespassing), then they have the obligation to investigate. This includes detaining a suspect to identify and question him.

Failure to cooperate with this investigation leads to an obstruction charge.

So, failing to produce an ID card, is NOT an "All he did..." type of thing.