NationStates Jolt Archive

I always thought the letter 'Z' was pronounced like 'zee' (bee, knee...) and then I saw the original Hitchhiker's Guide TV show on DVD(very boring) and they said Z as Zed. I thought it was just some funky space way of saying Z that they created for the show. Then yesterday, I saw in my British Literature book part of one of the first dictionaries of English and it said Zed is the name of the letter Z. Today, I finally looked up Zed on wikipedia and to my amazement 'zee' is mainly said in the United States, while everywhere else they say zed. :O IS it true that Brits and stuff say Zed and not Zee.

In britain, yes; it's mainly zed. Zee is sometimes used because we use a lot of americanese anyway.

Yes, in British English the letter is pronounced 'zed' while in American English it is pronounced 'zee', only exception I can think of is the alphabet rhyme (each line ending with '-ee' so it naturally follows the same for 'z').

I learned it as "zed" in school, and I still say it that way, even though I now live in the US.

Damn...I never would have even imagined that...This reminds me of when I found out most males in the world are NOT circumcised...but that's another argument ;)

tell me, why do you need to segregate the poll?

tell me, why do you need to segregate the poll?

b/c Britain, Canada, and the US are the main english speakers. Australia and such usually follow Britain. Also, the three main english cultures are Britain, Canada, and the US. :p

What the hell is the letter 'z'? 1 8.33%
Ok, who voted for that?

Ah, I've learned something today then. It has actually come up in my life before, but I didnt make any connection. I've always pronounced it Zee, and never knew it was different elsewhere. Doesnt 'Z' get more use in American spelling, anyway?

Ok, who voted for that?

*slinks away*
Mwahahaha

Yes, Americans use 'z' in places Britains would use 's', such as in popularise/popularize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences

I didn't know the Brits called it 'Zed' until I watched a British comedy show where they were spelling out a word.

"Tee, Eye, Tee, Zed. Titz."
"But it sounds like... tits."
"No, but it has the letter zed. It's different."
"I know. But it... still sounds like tits."

Anyway, I say it 'Zee', being an American.

Zulu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkduMqW1JIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkduMqW1JIo

HAhahahahaha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkduMqW1JIo

BAAAAhahahahahahahahahhhaa!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_zfOgSlsUM&NR

I didn't even know anybody pronounced it zed. Shows what I know.

I always thought the letter 'Z' was pronounced like 'zee' (bee, knee...) and then I saw the original Hitchhiker's Guide TV show on DVD(very boring) and they said Z as Zed.

You never saw Men in Black?

Of course it's "zed." "Zee" has always sounded to me like something a retarded child would say.

Well, some of you Americans have learnt something today. ;)

I'm British and French. In both languages it's "zed".

Of course it's "zed." "Zee" has always sounded to me like something a retarded child would say.
QFT.

Of course it's "zed." "Zee" has always sounded to me like something a retarded child would say.

Redundant. "Child" or "American" would suffice.

Yes, Americans use 'z' in places Britains would use 's', such as in popularise/popularize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences

There are a lot of different spellings. In fact, I never knew Americans spelled defence as "defense" until quite recently.

I always thought the letter 'Z' was pronounced like 'zee' (bee, knee...) and then I saw the original Hitchhiker's Guide TV show on DVD(very boring) and they said Z as Zed. I thought it was just some funky space way of saying Z that they created for the show. Then yesterday, I saw in my British Literature book part of one of the first dictionaries of English and it said Zed is the name of the letter Z. Today, I finally looked up Zed on wikipedia and to my amazement 'zee' is mainly said in the United States, while everywhere else they say zed. :O IS it true that Brits and stuff say Zed and not Zee.
Why are Americans so bloody ignorant of everything not American?

Why are Americans so bloody ignorant of everything not American?

Media in the US are incredibly bad at portraying anything outside the US borders. If you ever go to the US, you'll see it's like being cut off from the rest of the world - you will have virtually no idea about what's going on, but will for some reason know who Ann Coulter is, or know the name of the latest missing white girl in Aruba...

That's just part of the explanation, though. The school system seems to leave a lot to desire when it comes to teaching them about things abroad for some reason.

Of course it's "zed." "Zee" has always sounded to me like something a retarded child would say.

Why?

Media in the US are incredibly bad at portraying anything outside the US borders. If you ever go to the US, you'll see it's like being cut off from the rest of the world - you will have virtually no idea about what's going on, but will for some reason know who Ann Coulter is, or know the name of the latest missing white girl in Aruba...

That's just part of the explanation, though. The school system seems to leave a lot to desire when it comes to teaching them about things abroad for some reason.

Have you been to America? I agree our media sucks at reporting stories, but I don't feel like it's being cut off from the rest of the world.:rolleyes:

Why?

It seems to be like assuming that because it's "bee, cee, dee, gee and so on" it should be "zee." Which would, of course, give us "aee, fee, hee, iee, jee, kee, lee, mee, nee..." and so on. Simply strikes me as retarded logic.

Have you been to America?

Yes, but I've also been to the USA.

I agree our media sucks at reporting stories, but I don't feel like it's being cut off from the rest of the world.:rolleyes:

Oh, believe me, it is. It was quite the shock going from a European bounty of reports about the world, to the US wasteland of "the foods that will kill you! Find out more after the break!"

Canadian and Zee. If I have to pick between American and British. I'm not going to pick British.

It seems to be like assuming that because it's "bee, cee, dee, gee and so on" it should be "zee." Which would, of course, give us "aee, fee, hee, iee, jee, kee, lee, mee, nee..." and so on. Simply strikes me as retarded logic.

I'm of the opinion that there is no logic in the English language...you're pretty much always going to get completely illogical exceptions for everything.

In German, it's pronounced "tset" which is kind of like "zed", but I've always said it as "zee" in English.

Zee here. First I've heard of z being pronounced as zed.

I always thought the letter 'Z' was pronounced like 'zee' (bee, knee...) and then I saw the original Hitchhiker's Guide TV show on DVD(very boring) and they said Z as Zed. I thought it was just some funky space way of saying Z that they created for the show. Then yesterday, I saw in my British Literature book part of one of the first dictionaries of English and it said Zed is the name of the letter Z. Today, I finally looked up Zed on wikipedia and to my amazement 'zee' is mainly said in the United States, while everywhere else they say zed. :O IS it true that Brits and stuff say Zed and not Zee.

Zed is usually used. However I'm sure when I was once in a dressing room before a thetre production and we did a vocal warm-up, "zee" was used.

Zed. Zee.
Zee. Zed.

I still pronounce 'zoo' the same way.

Yes, in British English the letter is pronounced 'zed' while in American English it is pronounced 'zee', only exception I can think of is the alphabet rhyme (each line ending with '-ee' so it naturally follows the same for 'z').

I don't know what school you went to. When I was a kid, the alphabet was not like the American-style song (cus that's what it is, American-style) which goes "abcdefg hijklmnop qrs tuv wx y and z", it was instead the PROPER alphabet song which goes "abcdefg hijklmn opqrstu v w xyz" (similar to the tune of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star"

I'm of the opinion that there is no logic in the English language...you're pretty much always going to get completely illogical exceptions for everything.

Precisely, which makes "zee" all the sillier.

Precisely, which makes "zee" all the sillier.

It would be a hell of a lot easier for me, and probably everyone else, if our language had at least some consistency with other forms of English. But, for some reason, we use "zee".

I imagine Webster's bizarre dictionary from the 1800's has something to do with it; he was the one who helped introduce a lot of the American spelling conventions in to our language. It also doesn't help that US English retains leftovers from 16th and 17th century British English...

I'm sorry, what?

Have you been to America? I agree our media sucks at reporting stories, but I don't feel like it's being cut off from the rest of the world.:rolleyes:

Soz dude/dudette, but I can tell Americans are generally very ignorant from one thing: the way they abbreviate their states in chat rooms, automatically expecting everyone to know what the f*ck they mean just cus they do. If I ask you your age sex and location, I don't wanna get a couple of letters in place of your actualy state! Just say USA if you're that bleeding lazy!

I say zee.

Soz dude/dudette, but I can tell Americans are generally very ignorant from one thing: the way they abbreviate their states in chat rooms, automatically expecting everyone to know what the f*ck they mean just cus they do

Well, if more people sent mail to the US they would know the abbreviations. :p

Well, if more people sent mail to the US they would know the abbreviations. :p

See? Ignorant :cool:

Of course it's "zed." "Zee" has always sounded to me like something a retarded child would say.

I beg to differ...

Well, some of you Americans have learnt something today. ;)

I'm British and French. In both languages it's "zed".

That's another thing, I always thought 'z' in french was like 'ze' (i grec, ze)

Why are Americans so bloody ignorant of everything not American?

Who would ever think the name of a letter would be different in another country.

Precisely, which makes "zee" all the sillier.

I find 'zed' very silly sounding. :p

Soz dude/dudette, but I can tell Americans are generally very ignorant from one thing: the way they abbreviate their states in chat rooms, automatically expecting everyone to know what the f*ck they mean just cus they do. If I ask you your age sex and location, I don't wanna get a couple of letters in place of your actualy state! Just say USA if you're that bleeding lazy!

We R t3h awesome! Well the US is kind of like 50 countries, so...

@Fass-The United States can be called America.

This thread clears up my extreme confusion.

I know there's a car called "BMW Z8".

But a while back, while playing 007:Agent Under Fire, "R" says the "BMW Zed 8". I'm like "what the heck is that?". Thank you, NationStates!

This thread clears up my extreme confusion.

I know there's a car called "BMW Z8".

But a while back, while playing 007:Agent Under Fire, "R" says the "BMW Zed 8". I'm like "what the heck is that?". Thank you, NationStates!

That's sort of how I felt except I at least had a way of explaining it as a galactic pronounciation.

I beg to differ...



That's another thing, I always thought 'z' in french was like 'ze' (i grec, ze)



Who would ever think the name of a letter would be different in another country.



I find 'zed' very silly sounding. :p



We R t3h awesome! Well the US is kind of like 50 countries, so...

@Fass-The United States can be called America.

right thats pig french the french dont pronounce everything like zis yes, its more like zed, english is a language that evolves, hence why there is use of hinglish and other languges into english, UK english adapts and moves and changes, it is a concoction of many languages. i say Zed because thats the way it is, US english is like a blast from the past, i say learn propper geography at school so u can identify ure country on the map and not point to russia cus its the biggest and learn to spreche the propper english

I beg to differ...

Differ all you want. Doesn't change a thing.

I find 'zed' very silly sounding. :p

That's 'cause you haven't learnt proper English like I have.

@Fass-The United States can be called America.

I know some seem to like to co-opt the name of the entire continent out of some deluded sense of self-importance, of which I shall of course play no part.

I know some seem to like to co-opt the name of the entire continent out of some deluded sense of self-importance, of which I shall of course play no part.

If I am understanding all the big words correctly, i agree with that.

right thats pig french the french dont pronounce everything like zis yes, its more like zed, english is a language that evolves, hence why there is use of hinglish and other languges into english, UK english adapts and moves and changes, it is a concoction of many languages. i say Zed because thats the way it is, US english is like a blast from the past, i say learn propper geography at school so u can identify ure country on the map and not point to russia cus its the biggest and learn to spreche the propper english

Pig French? Is that anything like Pig Latin?

right thats pig french the french dont pronounce everything like zis yes, its more like zed, english is a language that evolves, hence why there is use of hinglish and other languges into english, UK english adapts and moves and changes, it is a concoction of many languages. i say Zed because thats the way it is, US english is like a blast from the past, i say learn propper geography at school so u can identify ure country on the map and not point to russia cus its the biggest and learn to spreche the propper english

You might want to join me...and what the bloody hell does that last part mean?

Differ all you want. Doesn't change a thing.



That's 'cause you haven't learnt proper English like I have.



I know some seem to like to co-opt the name of the entire continent out of some deluded sense of self-importance, of which I shall of course play no part.

I'ts proper English for 300 something million people. More than you chums can claim. America is an acceptable name for the US. Only the UN calls it all "America". There's North America and South America. We also were independent first so can claim the title America. :p And no other country in the hemisphere seems to care.

"Zed" FTW! Damned Americans bastardizing English...and the Quebecois too...*angry fist shaking*

more people speak the british english, simple reason India

and the last part was speak proper english, spreche is german, the base language of english

english is a language that adapts, chaucer's english was not the same as shakys(shakespeare) english, we adapt from other languages, hindi is proberbly the most prominent language that has fused with english, pundit is such a word as are may others, the same in parts of the US where there is an influx of mexicans there is a spanglish(spannish and english)

more people speak the british english, simple reason India

and the last part was speak proper english, spreche is german, the base language of english

english is a language that adapts, chaucer's english was not the same as shakys(shakespeare) english, we adapt from other languages, hindi is proberbly the most prominent language that has fused with english, pundit is such a word as are may others, the same in parts of the US where there is an influx of mexicans there is a spanglish(spannish and english)

"An estimated 354 million people speak English as their first language[2]."
Most of which are American.

English broke off from Germanic(not German) about two millenia ago. It no longer even acts like German. At least Old English had some similarities, but even it was pretty different.

Nonetheless, zed has to be the most bizzare way of pronouncing a letter. I could never imagine anyone singing: double-you, eks, why, and zed

I always thought the letter 'Z' was pronounced like 'zee' (bee, knee...) and then I saw the original Hitchhiker's Guide TV show on DVD(very boring) and they said Z as Zed.

Huh? The original Hitchhiker's Guide was a radio program. How the hell did you 'see' that on a DVD? (It is also very funny)

Z is named Zed - but if you want to call it Zee then I suppose that is up to you.
(You may notice however that most spell checkers recognise zed but not zee.)

It depends where I am, actually. When I'm in the States I say "zee" when I'm not I say "zed". I picked up saying "zed" when I lived on the Canadian border.

I pick up on accents very quickly, but sometimes I use the wrong in the wrong place. When I was in the Army I would accidentally say "eh?" (Michiganders do it, we just don't like to admit it) at the end of a question where a positive reponse was expected. I would catch all sorts of shit for that. And then I'd go back to Michigan and say "Y'all" and I'd also catch massive amounts of shit.

It is Zed.
Just like the band.

I learned about the whole "zed" thing when I was younger because of a line in a British ABC book my parents had gotten me that was:

I love my cat with a "Z." There's nothing more to be said.
All the other lines in the poem rhymed so I asked my Mom why this one didn't and they said that people in Britian pronounce it "zed." I didn't believe them until I was older though.

Zed. Zee.
Zee. Zed.

I still pronounce 'zoo' the same way.

How do Americans say Boo!!

Bee-oo???

First time I heard the term "Zed" was in the Sean Connery Movie of the same name. Had no idea that it meant "z" till quite some time later.

I say Zed, as a child I was almost corrupted by American English, but I'm doing what I can to change that.

It would be a hell of a lot easier for me, and probably everyone else, if our language had at least some consistency with other forms of English.

How did American English end up so bastardised anyway?

Soz dude/dudette, but I can tell Americans are generally very ignorant from one thing: the way they abbreviate their states in chat rooms, automatically expecting everyone to know what the f*ck they mean just cus they do. If I ask you your age sex and location, I don't wanna get a couple of letters in place of your actualy state! Just say USA if you're that bleeding lazy!

It wouldn't matter, I don't know where 95% of the states are anyway.

[/U]
I'ts (<- WTF is this?) proper English for 300 something million people. More than you chums can claim. America is an acceptable name for the US. Only the UN calls it all "America". There's North America and South America. We also were independent first so can claim the title America. :p And no other country in the hemisphere seems to care.

Just because it's what 300 million people believe, doesn't mean its right.

"Zed" FTW! Damned Americans bastardizing English...and the Quebecois too...*angry fist shaking*

You spelt bastardising the bastardised way!

I am from the US; I say "zee," because that is the standard pronunciation around here. I have heard people say "zed," and it doesn't seem any more weird to me than hearing the same people speak of adVERtisements instead of adverTISEments (which, I suppose I should note, does not seem at all weird). British and American English involve quite a few differences in pronunciation - so what else is new? :p

How did American English end up so bastardised anyway?

Blame Noah Webster, he had quite a bee in his bonnet about that sort of thing, to distance America from ye olde Europe.

Zed, by the way.

Z is named Zed - but if you want to call it Zee then I suppose that is up to you.
(You may notice however that most spell checkers recognise zed but not zee.)

Funny, mine recognizes zee just fine.

When you write out your alphabet, do you actually write; abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzed?

That's another thing, I always thought 'z' in french was like 'ze' (i grec, ze)


Where on Earth did you get that idea? It's "doobluh-vih", "eeks", "ee-grek", "zed" (W, X, Y, Z).



We R t3h awesome! Well the US is kind of like 50 countries, so...


Not really. Unless you're going to say that Nigeria is 37 different countries, that Russia is 88, the Federated States of Micronesia 4, Switzerland 26, and so on...

Not really. Unless you're going to say that Nigeria is 37 different countries, that Russia is 88, the Federated States of Micronesia 4, Switzerland 26, and so on...

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on that. They are not culturally nor politically different and there doesn't seem to be individualized loyalty. In the United States (First of all, the reason for the name of the U.S. is that they were independant countries once, bound by the Articles of Confederation (not unlike the E.U.).), the states are semi-autonomous; they actually have independant governemnts that run most of the governemnt in the state. For example, if I kill someone, I'm in trouble with the state, not the feds, and they will each (the states) have different punishments for me. Each state has a State Assembly and a State Senate as well as their own Supreme Court (the only thing above it id the national one) and a Governor. They each have independant education systems as well as budgets. Additionally, they have uniquely independant cultures, economies, cuisine, accents, laws, etc. and there is a detrimental amount of state loyalty. (For example, as a general rule of thumb, Californians hate Texans, Texas hates both California and Massachusetts, and everone pities Mississippi and distrusts Alabama.) Though, if I recall correctly, Mexico;s states are also semi-autonomous (not quite as much, though, if I recall), name me one country in Europe that could say that they are made up of states by the above listed qualifications.

The last thing the english alphabet needs is another letter with an '-ee' sound. You shouldn't have to find yourself in the position of having to use the NATO phonetic alphabet on the phone just to tell someone your postcode without them getting it wrong.

"I'm sorry did you say C?"

"ZEE!"

"T?"

"ZEE!"

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on that. They are not culturally nor politically different and there doesn't seem to be individualized loyalty. In the United States (First of all, the reason for the name of the U.S. is that they were independant countries once, bound by the Articles of Confederation (not unlike the E.U.).), the states are semi-autonomous; they actually have independant governemnts that run most of the governemnt in the state. For example, if I kill someone, I'm in trouble with the state, not the feds, and they will each (the states) have different punishments for me. Each state has a State Assembly and a State Senate as well as their own Supreme Court (the only thing above it id the national one) and a Governor. They each have independant education systems as well as budgets. Additionally, they have uniquely independant cultures, economies, cuisine, accents, laws, etc. and there is a detrimental amount of state loyalty. (For example, as a general rule of thumb, Californians hate Texans, Texas hates both California and Massachusetts, and everone pities Mississippi and distrusts Alabama.) Though, if I recall correctly, Mexico;s states are also semi-autonomous (not quite as much, though, if I recall), name me one country in Europe that could say that they are made up of states by the above listed qualifications.


Well, actually, Britain is made up more or less the same way. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have seperate assemblies (the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament, No idea what the Northern Irish have though) and they pretty much decide what happens in those countries. Although they all have more or less the same punishments

"An estimated 354 million people speak English as their first language[2]."
Most of which are American.

English is spoken by about 82% of the population [215 million in 2003]as a native language...Approximately 337 languages are spoken or signed by the population, of which 176 are indigenous to the area.

Your earlier implication that '300 million' people in the US speak English as their first language, meaning that you somehow have a veto on how it should be pronounced, is misleading, by 85 million people.

The letter is pronouced zed.

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on that. They are not culturally nor politically different and there doesn't seem to be individualized loyalty.

From what I know of FS Micronesia, I would question your assertion, but I'll have to double-check. I do believe there is significant local / State cultural difference and loyalty within Micronesia.

Nigeria and Russia... I don't know enough about feelings within the different States. I do know that there is a very significant level of legislative and judicial autonomy at the State level in Nigeria.


In the United States (First of all, the reason for the name of the U.S. is that they were independant countries once, bound by the Articles of Confederation (not unlike the E.U.).), the states are semi-autonomous; they actually have independant governemnts that run most of the governemnt in the state.

You mean, like Switzerland.


Though, if I recall correctly, Mexico;s states are also semi-autonomous (not quite as much, though, if I recall),

You're right; I forgot Mexico. And Germany, for that matter. Not to mention Australia. Although, again, I can't really comment on State autonomy in those countries. But bear in mind that Germany was originally not one country either: It was composed of numerous autonomous principalities. And Australia was several entirely seperate colonies, independent from one another, until Federation in 1901.


name me one country in Europe that could say that they are made up of states by the above listed qualifications.

I was refering to the whole world (hence the FSM and Nigeria), not just Europe. By all the criteria you've listed, I must admit I don't know whether they apply to any country outside the US. But your strongest bet is the Swiss Confederacy. Heck, I believe (though I may be wrong) that Swiss cantons are more autonomous than US States. But you wouldn't say Switzerland is 26 different countries, would you?

Well, actually, Britain is made up more or less the same way. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have seperate assemblies (the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament, No idea what the Northern Irish have though) and they pretty much decide what happens in those countries. Although they all have more or less the same punishments

The UK is a different case altogether. Nobody denies that England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are different countries. Or, more specifically, they are distinct nations combined within the British State.

Each country in the UK has its own sports teams on the international stage, which is not true of US States (nor of Australian States, Micronesian States, Swiss cantons, etc...). Wales is definitely a country in a sense that, say, Wyoming is not.

Each country in the UK has its own sports teams on the international stage, which is not true of US States (nor of Australian States, Micronesian States, Swiss cantons, etc...). Wales is definitely a country in a sense that, say, Wyoming is not.


I know, I was merely saying that there are countries with the same qualifications (as he put ti) that he listed

I don't know what school you went to. When I was a kid, the alphabet was not like the American-style song (cus that's what it is, American-style) which goes "abcdefg hijklmnop qrs tuv wx y and z", it was instead the PROPER alphabet song which goes "abcdefg hijklmn opqrstu v w xyz" (similar to the tune of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star"

It already has the tune of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star"....and "Baa, baa, Black Sheep".

It depends where I am, actually. When I'm in the States I say "zee" when I'm not I say "zed". I picked up saying "zed" when I lived on the Canadian border.

I pick up on accents very quickly, but sometimes I use the wrong in the wrong place. When I was in the Army I would accidentally say "eh?" (Michiganders do it, we just don't like to admit it) at the end of a question where a positive reponse was expected. I would catch all sorts of shit for that. And then I'd go back to Michigan and say "Y'all" and I'd also catch massive amounts of shit.

Tis true, I have been called Canadian for using ", eh?".

Tis true, I have been called Canadian for using ", eh?".

See it all the time in the Smipsons.

But you wouldn't say Switzerland is 26 different countries, would you?

Well, one other thing to remember is the size of the U.S. states. For example, California has 37,000,000 citizens (at least 45,000,000 residents (including illeagal immigrants)), is nearly double the size of the United Kingdom, produces enough food to feed the entire U.S. with exported surplus, created most of the world's computer technology, and has (if it were an independant country) the fifth largest economy in the world (larger than that of the U.K.). If you want to play with geography, Alaska is more than one third the size of Europe.

Perhaps Switzerland could be comprised of autonomous counties?, but I would have to say that those are just too small to be treated like independant countries. What do you think?

Well, one other thing to remember is the size of the U.S. states. For example, California has 37,000,000 citizens (at least 45,000,000 residents (including illeagal immigrants)), is nearly double the size of the United Kingdom, produces enough food to feed the entire U.S. with exported surplus, created most of the world's computer technology, and has (if it were an independant country) the fifth largest economy in the world (larger than that of the U.K.). If you want to play with geography, Alaska is more than one third the size of Europe.

Perhaps Switzerland could be comprised of autonomous counties?, but I would have to say that those are just to small to be treated like independant countries. What do you think?

I can't really agree to that. Yes, you have a valid point about US States, and the case of California is noteworthy, but size isn't an accurate way to measure whether a territory / society / State / whatever is a country. San Marino for example may be tiny, but it is unquestionably a sovereign, independent country, and has the distinction of being the world's oldest surviving independent republic (since the year 301, I believe). If you use size as a measure, where do you draw the line? Would Tuvalu not be a country? How could anyone plausibly argue that it isn't?

US States, Swiss cantons and possibly a few other national subdivisions enjoy notable levels of self-government, but it would be very difficult to conceive of them as countries.

Wales is definitely a country in a sense that, say, Wyoming is not.

Absolutely. Wyoming may be autonomous, but there's just not enough of it (size of population and economy as well as cultural and/or historical independance) to call it a virtually seperate country- certainly not to the degree of a former monarchy like Wales.

California, however, is in a different position. It is large enough (in all the aforementioned ways), powerful enough, and independant enough to be considered its own country. (Incidentally, it was once an independant country called "The Republic of California" (hence the words "California Republic" on the state flag; it was the original national one) for, if I recall, two months under the direction of President Willim B. Ide. (The point of cecession from Mexico in the first place was to join the United States.)) Hawaii was an independant monarchy for centuries, and Texas in addition to, of course, the original thirteen colonies was an independant republic as well.

I use "zee" when reciting the alphabet song (unless doing it in school, then I make a conscious effort to use "zed"), and "zed" when spelling words (eg, zoo = zed, oh, oh).

I can't really agree to that. Yes, you have a valid point about US States, and the case of California is noteworthy, but size isn't an accurate way to measure whether a territory / society / State / whatever is a country. San Marino for example may be tiny, but it is unquestionably a sovereign, independent country, and has the distinction of being the world's oldest surviving independent republic (since the year 301, I believe). If you use size as a measure, where do you draw the line? Would Tuvalu not be a country? How could anyone plausibly argue that it isn't?

US States, Swiss cantons and possibly a few other national subdivisions enjoy notable levels of self-government, but it would be very difficult to conceive of them as countries.

They aren't countries, no, but I think the issue here was whether or not they are virtually countries to the extent that they could be treated (not politically or diplomatically) on the international scale as such. I do, however, think that in making such a distinction (though I still beleive that size is relevant (Oh, I'm a man; I'm biased, I suppose.)) that perhaps the most important factor is the independance and/or dominence of its culture. Hence where California comes in; it has both. The same goes for most of the eastern states, and also the more isolated or populous ones (which also tend to form or retain independant cultures). For example, despite Monaco's practically nonexistant size (and the fact that it technically belongs to France (though, once again, it's autonomous), it seems to bare a unique (or at least somewhat independant) culture. Wyoming seems to have roughly the same culture as Montana and the Daktas, whereas Wales sound quite unique in addittion to its hitorically and culturally rich independant past. I don't think Wales blurs the line betwwen whether or not it is virtually a country, I think, if anything, it blurs the line as to whether or not it is a country.

Huh? The original Hitchhiker's Guide was a radio program. How the hell did you 'see' that on a DVD? (It is also very funny)

Z is named Zed - but if you want to call it Zee then I suppose that is up to you.
(You may notice however that most spell checkers recognise zed but not zee.)
He/she didnt see the 'original Hitchhiker's Guide' on DVD I expect, but rather they saw the original 'Hitchiker's Guide tv show'.:p

You've clearly got your pee's and zed's right though.;)

a former monarchy like Wales.

Actually, unless my memory is failing, there was never a Welsh monarchy (ruling over the whole of Wales, and exclusively Wales). Scotland was an independent kingdom at least until 1603 (and officially beyond, since the Stuarts were rulers of two kingdoms, not of a unified one), but not Wales. But Wales has indeed got its own distinct culture and history.


(Incidentally, it was once an independant country called "The Republic of California" (hence the words "California Republic" on the state flag; it was the original national one) for, if I recall, two months under the direction of President Willim B. Ide.

Interesting.


Hawaii was an independant monarchy for centuries,

Indeed. It was recognised as fully sovereign by many countries.


They aren't countries, no, but I think the issue here was whether or not they are virtually countries to the extent that they could be treated (not politically or diplomatically) on the international scale as such.

Yes. And I agree a good case could be made to say they could be.

One could argue that German Länder have a history of self-government behind them, but I really don't know to what extent (if any) regional / Länder identity is significant in Germany. (Maybe German NS players could help out here.) Nor whether there are notable cultural differences between the Swiss cantons.


For example, despite Monaco's practically nonexistant size (and the fact that it technically belongs to France (though, once again, it's autonomous)

It doesn't technically belong to France. It is a fully sovereign, independent country - as sovereign and independent as France is. With the sole limitation that, as I recall, by treaty stipulations France will annex Monaco if ever the Monegasque monarchy dies out.


it seems to bare a unique (or at least somewhat independant) culture.

Yes. The result of a long independent history.


Wyoming seems to have roughly the same culture as Montana and the Daktas, whereas Wales sound quite unique in addittion to its hitorically and culturally rich independant past. I don't think Wales blurs the line betwwen whether or not it is virtually a country, I think, if anything, it blurs the line as to whether or not it is a country.


Indeed. The four countries of the UK are a rather unique situation.

Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
http://sjl-static14.sjl.youtube.com/vi/gIV_yVlIWnU/3.jpg

Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
http://sjl-static14.sjl.youtube.com/vi/gIV_yVlIWnU/3.jpg

I was wondering how long that would take... ;)

I was wondering how long that would take... ;)
I'm a bit disappointed it took til the 78th post...

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on that. They are not culturally nor politically different and there doesn't seem to be individualized loyalty. In the United States (First of all, the reason for the name of the U.S. is that they were independant countries once, bound by the Articles of Confederation (not unlike the E.U.).), the states are semi-autonomous; they actually have independant governemnts that run most of the governemnt in the state. For example, if I kill someone, I'm in trouble with the state, not the feds, and they will each (the states) have different punishments for me. Each state has a State Assembly and a State Senate as well as their own Supreme Court (the only thing above it id the national one) and a Governor. They each have independant education systems as well as budgets. Additionally, they have uniquely independant cultures, economies, cuisine, accents, laws, etc. and there is a detrimental amount of state loyalty. (For example, as a general rule of thumb, Californians hate Texans, Texas hates both California and Massachusetts, and everone pities Mississippi and distrusts Alabama.) Though, if I recall correctly, Mexico;s states are also semi-autonomous (not quite as much, though, if I recall), name me one country in Europe that could say that they are made up of states by the above listed qualifications.

The UK

Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
http://sjl-static14.sjl.youtube.com/vi/gIV_yVlIWnU/3.jpg
Exactly. It's pronounced 'Zee'. Zed is the name of one of the rednecks in Pulp Fiction.

The UK

See my earlier post on that.

See my earlier post on that.

Yep, I just finished reading the thread now.

Actually, unless my memory is failing, there was never a Welsh monarchy (ruling over the whole of Wales, and exclusively Wales). Scotland was an independent kingdom at least until 1603 (and officially beyond, since the Stuarts were rulers of two kingdoms, not of a unified one), but not Wales. But Wales has indeed got its own distinct culture and history.


There was a Welsh monarchy, but you have to head very far back to find it, though naturally there is huge debate of what Wales was over the course of History, given that Edward I was in control of Southern Wales, did that mean he controlled part of Wales, or did that area become English due to invasion meaning that the Prince Llywelyn controlled all of Wales at that time.

Exactly. It's pronounced 'Zee'. Zed is the name of one of the rednecks in Pulp Fiction.
They pronounced his name 'Zed', not 'Zee'. And this from an AMERICAN made movie!

They pronounced his name 'Zed', not 'Zee'. And this from an AMERICAN made movie!That's what I'm saying, his name is Zed, but Zee is how to pronounce the letter.

There was a Welsh monarchy, but you have to head very far back to find it, though naturally there is huge debate of what Wales was over the course of History, given that Edward I was in control of Southern Wales, did that mean he controlled part of Wales, or did that area become English due to invasion meaning that the Prince Llywelyn controlled all of Wales at that time.

Good question... You'd have to distinguish, I suppose, between the de facto Welsh State (under Llywelyn) and the Welsh "nation" - i.e., the territory which saw itself as Wales, with people who thought of themselves as Welsh. I would assume the people in southern Wales might have objected to being considered English. But then we have to bear in mind that the concept of national identity was, at the very best, embryonic in the twelth century.

Good question... You'd have to distinguish, I suppose, between the de facto Welsh State (under Llywelyn) and the Welsh "nation" - i.e., the territory which saw itself as Wales, with people who thought of themselves as Welsh. I would assume the people in southern Wales might have objected to being considered English. But then we have to bear in mind that the concept of national identity was, at the very best, embryonic in the twelth century.

It is quite impressive how a topic about z (zed for me) can get side tracked into a discussion about if Wales was ever a fully independent country.

"Zed" FTW! Damned Americans bastardizing English
and you just use the bastardised version of a word right now. i'd say you are secretly partcipating in their campaign.

and you just use the bastardised version of a word right now. i'd say you are secretly partcipating in their campaign.

I think someone already addressed that point, though it can't hurt repeating as the mistake was unforgivable considering what he was saying.

It is quite impressive how a topic about z (zed for me) can get side tracked into a discussion about if Wales was ever a fully independent country.

The many wonders of NS General. :)

I think someone already addressed that point, though it can't hurt repeating as the mistake was unforgivable considering what he was saying.

She.

The many wonders of NS General. :)

Yep, normally I would be able to guess the way that people became sidetracked (even on NSG) but if I had not read the thread I would be stumped.

She.

Sorry, I didn't know their gender so I used mine as default.

Huh? The original Hitchhiker's Guide was a radio program. How the hell did you 'see' that on a DVD? (It is also very funny)

Z is named Zed - but if you want to call it Zee then I suppose that is up to you.
(You may notice however that most spell checkers recognise zed but not zee.)

There was a TV series on the BBC based off of that Radio thing, I think.

Just because it's what 300 million people believe, doesn't mean its right.

In language, the majority is correct.

Where on Earth did you get that idea? It's "doobluh-vih", "eeks", "ee-grek", "zed" (W, X, Y, Z).

Not really. Unless you're going to say that Nigeria is 37 different countries, that Russia is 88, the Federated States of Micronesia 4, Switzerland 26, and so on...

I swear it always sounded like 'zeh' to me. And we never had a sheet spelling them out. And most of the letters were similar to English names anyway...

I can't say for Nigeria, but Russia is definitely a few countries. Micronesia, probably is, and Switzerland's cantons almost definitely are. It's just easier when they all have one common goal to be counted as one on a world map.

Your earlier implication that '300 million' people in the US speak English as their first language, meaning that you somehow have a veto on how it should be pronounced, is misleading, by 85 million people.

The letter is pronouced zed.
IF I said native speakers, I didn't really mean it. Almost every American speaks English and almost every one says 'zee'

Each country in the UK has its own sports teams on the international stage, which is not true of US States (nor of Australian States, Micronesian States, Swiss cantons, etc...). Wales is definitely a country in a sense that, say, Wyoming is not.
Would you want 49 more teams competing for the World Cup? Also, some of the states don't even have that many players, but if it's across the whole country, they can easily play, regardless of location.

Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead.
http://sjl-static14.sjl.youtube.com/vi/gIV_yVlIWnU/3.jpg

Huh?

It is quite impressive how a topic about z (zed for me) can get side tracked into a discussion about if Wales was ever a fully independent country.

Welcome to NSG...

Sorry, I didn't know their gender so I used mine as default.

Male is usually acceptable as neuter, but if you noticed the name and knew a tad of french(or even english) "ladamesansmerci", you'd see that la is a feminine object and dame means lady (damsel, madam(e), Dame Edna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Edna))

That's what I'm saying, his name is Zed, but Zee is how to pronounce the letter.

why? what makes you think you know the english language better than the English?

What THE FUCK do you people mean? Zee Zed?

I'm so fucking lost.

What THE FUCK do you people mean? Zee Zed?

I'm so fucking lost.

Here take a map *hands over a map*

We're talking about how people say the letter 'Z'.

Got it?

You spelt bastardising the bastardised way!

No, I spell bastardizing the CANADIAN way, thus the right way.

Here take a map *hands over a map*

We're talking about how people say the letter 'Z'.

Got it?

Nope.

I can't understand this..

I can't hear someone pronouncing Zee (the way I say it) as Zed..

I'm sooooo confused. :(

Nope.

I can't understand this..

I can't hear someone pronouncing Zee (the way I say it) as Zed..

I'm sooooo confused. :(

Agreed, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Nope.

I can't understand this..

I can't hear someone pronouncing Zee (the way I say it) as Zed..

I'm sooooo confused. :(

That's because you live in a strange country where people have forgotten how to speak English. :)

I chose "what the hell is the letter z?" for a simple reason: Letters and language are arbitrary constructs within a society. It doesn't matter what you call it or how you say it as long as you can convey the intended facts to the listener in a way that they deem acceptable.

It's "zed" and it's said "zebra," not "zeebra." K? :)

It's "zed" and it's said "zebra," not "zeebra." K? :)

Nopes. :P

"I'm sorry did you say C?"

"ZEE!"

"T?"

"ZEE!"

I have always wondered how Americans can distinguish between C and Z. That would sound the same, wouldn't it?

I voted Z - other. I think I probably learned about the other pronounciation when I heard the name Jay-Z.

I have always wondered how Americans can distinguish between C and Z. That would sound the same, wouldn't it?

I voted Z - other. I think I probably learned about the other pronounciation when I heard the name Jay-Z.

It is easy to distinguish between C and Z. One starts with a sibilant consonant and the other does not. Perhaps you need to pay more attention when people are speaking to you?:p

I have always wondered how Americans can distinguish between C and Z. That would sound the same, wouldn't it?

I voted Z - other. I think I probably learned about the other pronounciation when I heard the name Jay-Z.

He would fail as a rapper anywhere else. ;) Jay-zed...:confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

As usual, we should turn to the Power Rangers for guidance:

http://h1.ripway.com/Dazcha/lordzedd.jpg

Lord Zedd. Yep. There's your answer.

I have always wondered how Americans can distinguish between C and Z. That would sound the same, wouldn't it?

I voted Z - other. I think I probably learned about the other pronounciation when I heard the name Jay-Z.

Yeah?!

But didn't you learn in primary school alphabet in English by song?! Which ends 'x, y, zed'

From that time on, I have always known that it's zed. But I am no native speaker anyway.

Redundant. "Child" or "American" would suffice.
Oh, please. Stop being a hypocrite. America is not the only country with stupid people.

As for me: It's Zee, not Zed, you bloody oafs. Thinking about it. Are you saying Zedbra or Zebra? Are you saying Zod or Zoo? Are you saying...um...Zigd or Zig?(Okay, that one is just stupid.) Fact is, when we pronounce words with the letter z, we're making the Zee sound, not the Zed sound. Why you people persist in saying Zed will never make any sense to me...

Oh, please. Stop being a hypocrite. America is not the only country with stupid people.

As for me: It's Zee, not Zed, you bloody oafs. Thinking about it. Are you saying Zedbra or Zebra? Are you saying Zod or Zoo? Are you saying...um...Zigd or Zig?(Okay, that one is just stupid.) Fact is, when we pronounce words with the letter z, we're making the Zee sound, not the Zed sound. Why you people persist in saying Zed will never make any sense to me...
Bee-Beeggar?, Beeadger? Beeumbele?
Cee-Ceeat? Ceeheat? Ceerazy?
eN- eNixon? eNoctirnal?
whY- whYou? whYogurt?

As for me: It's Zee, not Zed, you bloody oafs. Thinking about it. Are you saying Zedbra or Zebra? Are you saying Zod or Zoo? Are you saying...um...Zigd or Zig?(Okay, that one is just stupid.)
I say Zebra, not zeeeeeebra. I say zoo, not zeeeoooo.

Fact is, when we pronounce words with the letter z, we're making the Zee sound, not the Zed sound.
Now, you see, your pronouncing of a word is not enough to make how it should be said a 'fact'.

Why you people persist in saying Zed will never make any sense to me...
Oh, I don't know...because it's the correct way of saying it, perhaps?

I think this thread needs an audio faceoff. Ziggy the Zebra zooms to the Zoo.

I say Zebra, not zeeeeeebra. I say zoo, not zeeeoooo.


Now, you see, your pronouncing of a word is not enough to make how it should be said a 'fact'.


Oh, I don't know...because it's the correct way of saying it, perhaps?

I think this thread needs an audio faceoff. Ziggy the Zebra zooms to the Zoo.
What makes your way of speaking any righter than mine? Why should your pronunciation be any more correct than mine? Because English was "invented" in England? HAH! Anyone who does even the most basic of research into how the language has evolved knows that England lost all claim to anything to do with English way back ~800 A.D. or so. (I may be off by a century or two.)

I am curious as to why Americans say Zee and everyone else say Zed, however. In all reality, I of course acknowledge that both are right, and that I merely prefer Zee, by the way.

EDITSU: Ah, found why:
In almost all dialects of English other than American English, the letter is named zed /zɛd/, reflecting its derivation from the Greek zeta (see below). Other European languages use a similar form, e.g. the French zède, Spanish and Italian zeta, and Dutch zet. The American English form zee /ziː/ derives from an English late 17th-century dialectal form, now obsolete in England (the letter rhymes with "V" in the "Alphabet song" nursery rhyme). Another English dialectal form is izzard, which dates from the mid 18th-century, probably deriving from French et zède meaning and z, or else from s hard.
...a dialectal form of English obselete in England. What a SHOCK there. :rolleyes: Seems just about every single different word in American English comes from one obsolete dialect of a language or another...

Male is usually acceptable as neuter, but if you noticed the name and knew a tad of french(or even english) "ladamesansmerci", you'd see that la is a feminine object and dame means lady (damsel, madam(e), Dame Edna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Edna))

I know what dame is, however when it is in the middle of a name and as I didn't know la indicated a femine object it is not obvious. I could argue as the first 3 letters spell lad it must mean they are male but I am not, I don't take names at face value in NSG.

I know what dame is, however when it is in the middle of a name and as I didn't know la indicated a femine object it is not obvious. I could argue as the first 3 letters spell lad it must mean they are male but I am not, I don't take names at face value in NSG.

lad amesansmerci...nah IT's also in spanish...la is so obviously female...

Anyway, zed seems like the most ridiculous, illogical, retarded thing, but it makes perfect sense. zeta>zed I'll never get used to it though. It's easier to go from zed to zee than zee to zed.

lad amesansmerci...nah IT's also in spanish...la is so obviously female...

Come on now, the majority of people who are monolingual english speakers don't have any idea of the concept of words with gender, beyond pronouns and such. The other day a friend asked me to translate something that involved the phrase "la petite chienne" (I forget what it was about, I was busy doing homework) and when I explained that since the words were in the feminine form the dog was female he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

Just because it's second nature to you doesn't mean it's that way for others. Like most english speakers. there is a very good chance that it's all he speaks.

Oh, please. Stop being a hypocrite. America is not the only country with stupid people.

As for me: It's Zee, not Zed, you bloody oafs. Thinking about it. Are you saying Zedbra or Zebra? Are you saying Zod or Zoo? Are you saying...um...Zigd or Zig?(Okay, that one is just stupid.) Fact is, when we pronounce words with the letter z, we're making the Zee sound, not the Zed sound. Why you people persist in saying Zed will never make any sense to me...

I hope for your sake you never try to use a W.

I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on that. They are not culturally nor politically different and there doesn't seem to be individualized loyalty. In the United States (First of all, the reason for the name of the U.S. is that they were independant countries once, bound by the Articles of Confederation (not unlike the E.U.).), the states are semi-autonomous; they actually have independant governemnts that run most of the governemnt in the state. For example, if I kill someone, I'm in trouble with the state, not the feds, and they will each (the states) have different punishments for me. Each state has a State Assembly and a State Senate as well as their own Supreme Court (the only thing above it id the national one) and a Governor. They each have independant education systems as well as budgets. Additionally, they have uniquely independant cultures, economies, cuisine, accents, laws, etc. and there is a detrimental amount of state loyalty. (For example, as a general rule of thumb, Californians hate Texans, Texas hates both California and Massachusetts, and everone pities Mississippi and distrusts Alabama.) Though, if I recall correctly, Mexico;s states are also semi-autonomous (not quite as much, though, if I recall), name me one country in Europe that could say that they are made up of states by the above listed qualifications.
Hey, we don't all have a State Senate, some of us are sensible and have a proper representative unicameral legislature.;)

As usual, we should turn to the Power Rangers for guidance:

Lord Zedd. Yep. There's your answer.

You win the thread.

Australian & I pronounce it zed.

I'm amazed that so many Americans are learning for the first time that there's an alternate pronunciation. :eek:

Australian & I pronounce it zed.

I'm amazed that so many Americans are learning for the first time that there's an alternate pronunciation. :eek:

You'd be amazed how many more of us still haven't learned in the first place.

I took me a while to realise that Americans call it Zee... it's Zed in English, Zett in German, Zed in French. I never suspected the US used a different name until I got there...

So in other English speaking coutries, would the band be pronounced 'Zed Zed Top'

Damn...I never would have even imagined that...This reminds me of when I found out most males in the world are NOT circumcised...but that's another argument ;)

I know. I feel the same way. So much we are not taught in the US. They only make it seem as we are the best, and everyone else follows suit.

Australian & I pronounce it zed.

I'm amazed that so many Americans are learning for the first time that there's an alternate pronunciation. :eek:

I'm an American, and I'm similarly amazed by this.

So in other English speaking coutries, would the band be pronounced 'Zed Zed Top'

Nope they are pronounced "Zee Zee Top"...even though we pronounce Z as "Zed"...:confused:

Nope they are pronounced "Zee Zee Top"...even though we pronounce Z as "Zed"...:confused:

Ya see? At least we're consistent, that makes you guys the oddballs.

Come on now, the majority of people who are monolingual english speakers don't have any idea of the concept of words with gender, beyond pronouns and such. The other day a friend asked me to translate something that involved the phrase "la petite chienne" (I forget what it was about, I was busy doing homework) and when I explained that since the words were in the feminine form the dog was female he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

Just because it's second nature to you doesn't mean it's that way for others. Like most english speakers. there is a very good chance that it's all he speaks.

Thankyou, I am only fluent in english but I am currently learning Japanese (they do not seem to have gender for words that I have found so far, but my japanese is very basic so far as I am not very good with languages)

Yeah?!

But didn't you learn in primary school alphabet in English by song?! Which ends 'x, y, zed'

Uhm, no? I learned German in primary school, so the alphabet song goes 'x, ypsilon, zett ('tset')'

It is easy to distinguish between C and Z. One starts with a sibilant consonant and the other does not. Perhaps you need to pay more attention when people are speaking to you?:p

I already know Americans mispronounce Z. How am I supposed to know how C is mangled?

Thankyou, I am only fluent in english but I am currently learning Japanese (they do not seem to have gender for words that I have found so far, but my japanese is very basic so far as I am not very good with languages)

Nouns do, indeed, not possess any specific gender in Japanese; just one of the awesome things about it. Like not having to conjugate verbs... (except in terms of tenses).:D

Yes, in British English the letter is pronounced 'zed' while in American English it is pronounced 'zee', only exception I can think of is the alphabet rhyme (each line ending with '-ee' so it naturally follows the same for 'z').
I learned the rhyme with zed at the end.

Which ruins the rhyme, sure, but that's how I learned it.

I learned the rhyme with zed at the end.

Which ruins the rhyme, sure, but that's how I learned it.

The trick is to put in another word. We had "iX, Ypsilon, Zätt juchhe, itz chani ds ABC" (x, y, z woot, now I know the alphabet). Or bend the pronounciation slightly and make it "x, y, zed, that's the 'alphabed'"? :p

Nouns do, indeed, not possess any specific gender in Japanese; just one of the awesome things about it. Like not having to conjugate verbs... (except in terms of tenses).:D

Good, so the teacher wasn't hiding anything. So far the language itself, in the polite form anyway, should be learnable even by me though the writing is scary.

Two phonetic scripts and chinese characters on top. Research says that the western style of writing requires the use of a different part of the brain to the part needed when using writing styles similar to chinese. I think it was found when researching dyslexia.

Does that mean that the japanese use more of their brains than anyone else, :eek: though some of their game shows seem to contradicte this conclusion.:D

Come on now, the majority of people who are monolingual english speakers don't have any idea of the concept of words with gender, beyond pronouns and such. The other day a friend asked me to translate something that involved the phrase "la petite chienne" (I forget what it was about, I was busy doing homework) and when I explained that since the words were in the feminine form the dog was female he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

Just because it's second nature to you doesn't mean it's that way for others. Like most english speakers. there is a very good chance that it's all he speaks.

I was two and knew la meant female. :p

Hey, we don't all have a State Senate, some of us are sensible and have a proper representative unicameral legislature.;)
How's that Ernie Chambers guy doing? I read he was being forced out because of all the progressive things he was pushing for and thats not allowed. ;)