NationStates Jolt Archive

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

I don't know. $100 fine? Nothing? Whatever.

I believe he was entitled to his free speech.

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog?

I believe he was entitled to his free speech.

Free speech does not extend to assaulting some police officers, nor does it extend to a disruption of the peace.

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog?

Indeed.

You mean the kid who forgot his ID in his dorm, and on his way out was tasered by the cops that the librarian, for some reason, called?

I think the Cops in question should be suspended and that kid should get a fucking apology.


here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1VKZNKnBc

Free speech does not extend to assaulting some police officers, nor does it extend to a disruption of the peace.

All he did was not show an ID card, and then he gets zapped.

Free speech does not extend to assaulting some police officers, nor does it extend to a disruption of the peace.

I agree! He should be sterilized, and then his family deported. He was clearly disturbing the peace by screaming while being tazered. And the last thing we need are Iranian-descent students assaulting officers by lying down. I mean today it's lying down, tomorrow it's what - nuking New York City? Oh you better believe it!

See, MTAE. I can be a troll too.

news link?

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

I believe "time served" should suffice.

news link?

one of the other students in the library captured it on his cameraphone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1VKZNKnBc

You don't need the talking heads to describe it for you, you can see it for yourself.

Whatever the usual punishment for being in the library after hours without ID is.

All he did was not show an ID card, and then he gets zapped.

No, he didn't show ID. Then he screamed at the officer, saying "Don't touch me!" Then he proceeded to fight against the officer. He did not submit peacefully in any way whatsoever.

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?

No, he didn't show ID. Then he screamed at the officer, saying "Don't touch me!" Then he proceeded to fight against the officer. He did not submit peacefully in any way whatsoever.

because he was already on his way out

did you not hear the part where he says "I said i would leave now get your hands off of me"

I like how he 'fought'. the whole "writhing on the ground screaming while being tasered by the police" is really "resisting arrest":rolleyes:

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?

Again, "time served" should suffice.

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?

By being given medals. They did nothing wrong. I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them! I wouldn't have been so lenient on him, that's for sure.

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?

suspension. temporary or permanent, take your pick.

tasering an unarmed, compliant student who was already cooperating and had only forgotten his ID?

way over the line.

I agree! He should be sterilized, and then his family deported. He was clearly disturbing the peace by screaming while being tazered. And the last thing we need are Iranian-descent students assaulting officers by lying down. I mean today it's lying down, tomorrow it's what - nuking New York City? Oh you better believe it!

See, MTAE. I can be a troll too.

Of course, and if he's of Iranian descent he's obviously a terrorist. In fact we should deport anyone of arab descent. That way we'd never have any terrorist problems ever again. *mad sarcasm*

By being given medals. They did nothing wrong. I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them! I wouldn't have been so lenient on him, that's for sure.

When? As in, at what timestamp in the video did he attack the police officers?

By being given medals. They did nothing wrong. I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them! I wouldn't have been so lenient on him, that's for sure.

Interesting. I would not have expected that response from such a moral individual as yourself.

because he was already on his way out

did you not hear the part where he says "I said i would leave now get your hands off of me"

I like how he 'fought'. the whole "writhing on the ground screaming while being tasered by the police" is really "resisting arrest":rolleyes:

Not that I disagree with you, nor am I addressing you alone, but everyone in the thread but the whole argument about whether the police were justified in their use of force has had it's time in the sun and was duly locked. Best let sleeping dogs lie.

I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them!
How so?

It's not like you were there. And those that were there agree that the officers' behavior was completely unwarranted.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

That's a good example of the complex question fallacy. Maybe I'll save it for later use.

tasering an unarmed, compliant student

Compliant? How, in any way whatsoever, is assaulting a police officer "compliant"?

Compliant? How, in any way whatsoever, is assaulting a police officer "compliant"?
Assaulting? How, in any way whatsoever, is screaming while being tasered "assaulting"?

When? As in, at what timestamp in the video did he attack the police officers?

The video only recorded some guy's desk when the student was shouting "get your hands off me!" That's the point at which he assaulted the officer -- it is patently obvious if you listen to the tape. He was definitely acting in an extremely aggressive manner.

Of course, and if he's of Iranian descent he's obviously a terrorist. In fact we should deport anyone of arab descent. That way we'd never have any terrorist problems ever again.

Well, of course. Though he's not a terrorist himself most likely. Just a Fifth Column, a supporter-sympathizer/anti-American/traitor-liberal. They're all out to get us, you know. Thank God we have stalwart Peace Officers, tasering the Bad Guys. I can sleep soundly at night knowing our universities libraries are safe from Undesirables.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

What does the fact that he's Iranian have anything to do with anything?

That's a good example of the complex question fallacy. Maybe I'll save it for later use.

I like the complex part, but the fallacy part doesn't sound so hot. Would you care to point out the "fallacy"?

What does the fact that he's Iranian have anything to do with anything?

It has to do with people knowing what event I'm talking about, since I didn't have a link handy.

The video only recorded some guy's desk when the student was shouting "get your hands off me!" That's the point at which he assaulted the officer -- it is patently obvious if you listen to the tape. He was definitely acting in an extremely aggressive manner.

Gives new and physical meaning to "throwing your voice."

Compliant? How, in any way whatsoever, is assaulting a police officer "compliant"?

go to the one minute mark.

you will hear, very clearly:

"I was on my way out when you guys stopped me!"

and

"I said I would leave!"

Compliant? How, in any way whatsoever, is assaulting a police officer "compliant"?

How is writhing on the ground assaulting an officer?

I like the complex part, but the fallacy part doesn't sound so hot. Would you care to point out the "fallacy"?

Certainly. You assume in the question that the kid deserves a sentence without it having been established that he does.

It'd be like asking someone if they've stopped beating their wife yet, when it hasn't even been established that they're beating their wife.

"I was on my way out when you guys stopped me!"

Yes, but the police officer grabbed his arm to prevent him from doing so, perhaps to ask him some questions. At this point, he became extremely aggressive and needed to be subdued.

He already got needlessly brutalised with a taser several times. Leave the poor bastard alone. No sentence.

I like the complex part, but the fallacy part doesn't sound so hot. Would you care to point out the "fallacy"?

It's like asking the question "Why do you beat your wife?"

the question is based on an assumption that is unverified and the question is worded in such a way to make denying the assumption impossible without 'dodging' the question.

"Why do you beat your wife?"

"I don't"

"that didn't answer my question"

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?

He got agressive from the moment he was asked for his ID. They responded perhaps slightly overzelously, but not nearly as much as most people would suggest.

Yes, but the police officer grabbed his arm to prevent him from doing so, perhaps to ask him some questions. At this point, he became extremely aggressive and needed to be subdued.
Shocker!

Needlessly grab someone who's doing what they've already been told to do and they get pissed off!

They didn't need to subdue him at all. They could have let him go and questioned him another time if need be.

It has to do with people knowing what event I'm talking about, since I didn't have a link handy.

You know, you never do seem to have a link handy do you?

He got agressive from the moment he was asked for his ID. They responded perhaps slightly overzelously, but not nearly as much as most people would suggest.

he was not asked for his ID by the police.

the police were called when he did not have his ID with him, and they arrived as he was leaving (as he was asked to do)

You know, you never do seem to have a link handy do you?

It's weird...

he was not asked for his ID by the police.

the police were called when he did not have his ID with him, and they arrived as he was leaving (as he was asked to do)

They asked him a question about the incident and he became agressive. They had reason to respond in the way they did. What they did in terms of asking the question yes was the result of a breakdown of communications, but considering what he did (IE become agressive towards them) then yes they did what they should have.

Certainly. You assume in the question that the kid deserves a sentence without it having been established that he does.

One of the options was "none," so I didn't assume that he deserved a sentence (although he did). Sadly, that particular option was selected by a majority of respondents.

What does the fact that he's Iranian have anything to do with anything?
It means that the student's already and enemy of the state, you silly liberal!

/conservative mode.

One of the options was "none," so I didn't assume that he deserved a sentence (although he did). Sadly, that particular option was selected by a majority of respondents.
You biased the question severely.

They asked him a question about the incident and he became agressive. They had reason to respond in the way they did. What they did in terms of asking the question yes was the result of a breakdown of communications, but considering what he did (IE become agressive towards them) then yes they did what they should have.

But like MTAE pointed out, we don't see him get physical with the police first and we only have eyewitness accounts as of yet. The eyewitness accounts seem to side with the student. I'll believe the guy is innocent until proven guilty.

They didn't need to subdue him at all. They could have let him go and questioned him another time if need be.

No, because he was acting in an extremely aggressive manner. You can't let someone like that just walk out, especially after breaking a rule. He posed a danger to the students in his agitated state.

No, because he was acting in an extremely aggressive manner. You can't let someone like that just walk out, especially after breaking a rule. He posed a danger to the students in his agitated state.
He didn't appear to be causing a fuss or posing any danger before he was grabbed.

He didn't appear to be causing a fuss or posing any danger before he was grabbed.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.

One of the options was "none," so I didn't assume that he deserved a sentence (although he did). Sadly, that particular option was selected by a majority of respondents.

I said "You assume in the question..." rather than "You assume in the poll..." so that's not a particularly good response.

In any case, I'll be leaving the thread now but keeping an eye on it. Enjoy.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.

I would have though a better choice would have been to escort him out(thus making sure he actually leaves rather than just goes to another room) and question him on the way.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.
So was that being agressive?

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.
He didn't assault anyone.

I would have though a better choice would have been to escort him out(thus making sure he actually leaves rather than just goes to another room) and question him on the way.

But that would leave out all the violent bits that make for exciting viewing by the rest of us.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

none, and can you show when he assaulted the officers?

if anything, he should be banned from using the library after hours. for say... a month... at most. it should be a punnishment fitting the true crime. Forgetting his ID!.

the officers should be given a short suspension w/o pay.

Then the matter should be dropped.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that he assaulted police officers. I have also seen no evidence whatsoever that he did anything that could accurately be described as "disturbing the peace." If someone was using a taser on me over and over again, I'd probably scream too.

As for resisting arrest, the officers never seem to attempt to arrest him. They just yell "Stand up" and then tase him. I don't think "Use your taser on any student being an asshole," is part of their job description.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.
A college student in a college library... yes... he might have been READING BOOKS!!!!! He may have even been STUDYING!!!!!OMFG!!ONEONE!!!11111

Oh dear, call the army on this one.
:rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061118/ap_on_re_us/student_stunned
Campus police say he refused to show his student ID and refused to leave the building when asked.

Police said they shocked Tabatabainejad after he urged others to join his resistance and a crowd began to gather. Footage from another student's camera phone showed Tabatabainejad screaming on the floor of the computer lab.


Students at the news conference said there was no sign Tabatabainejad was targeted because of his ethnicity.


This little fecker didnt want to follow the rules so he tried to incite a riot and played the race card. For his efforts he got stunned...too bad they didnt shoot him.

The Police(Per a Supreme Court Decision) have every right to demand you identify yourself...he refused, in many places that is a crime.
As he refused to identify himself he did not prove he was a Student which means the Campus police have every right to ask him to leave the library--because as far as they are being allowed to discern from this mook he is trepassing.
He resisted, and got the minimum he deserves.
You all make me sick bagging up for some fecker who refuses to follow the rule of law.

Do all of you arbitrarily refuse to present ID to police when asked?

I don't think "Use your taser on any student being an asshole," is part of their job description.

Exactly. Abuse of power.
Power and corruption.

Do all of you arbitrarily refuse to present ID to police when asked?

Find me a student who has never forgotten/lost his student ID. It won't be easy to do.

The reasonable thing to have done, in this situation, would have been to go up to the library computers and check on his identity. Pretty much every college campus has some other form of recognition. In fact, if you lose your ID, you need that other form of recognition to get it replaced. The pictures are generally on file.

Meanwhile, officers are not entitled to begin using this type of force simply because someone is being an asshole. The officers make a lot of claims that seem to be disputed by every student there. The student accounts claim that he was already leaving the building when he was first tased. After that, he makes it very clear that he intends to leave (watch the video) and is tased again. He may have been an asshole about it, but he was quite obviously prepared to follow the rules.

Interestingly enough, the cop using the taser, when asked by another student for his name and badge number, threatened that student with his weapon. Believe it or not, citizens are entitled to ask a police officer for that information. When asked for it by a bystander, this officer threatened the student, rather than giving it. I cannot imagine how anyone can pretend that the officers were not out of line.

A college student in a college library... yes... he might have been READING BOOKS!!!!! He may have even been STUDYING!!!!!OMFG!!ONEONE!!!11111

Oh dear, call the army on this one.
:rolleyes:

How do you know he was a College Student and not some homeless person planning on spending the night?

Did he show you his ID card?

Why didn't he show is ID to Campus Security?

I'm not saying the police was right, but neither was the student/victim.

I wonder if the same people who are making excuses for these out-of-control police officers are the same people who made excuses for that guy who murdered a boy for trespassing on his lawn.

EDIT:
This little fecker didnt want to follow the rules so he tried to incite a riot and played the race card. For his efforts he got stunned...too bad they didnt shoot him.
Turns out I'm right about this particular maggot of immorality.

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?
Execution.


joke, they should probably be revised in the 'responsible application of force' lesson, or maybe suspended for a week.

Interesting. I would not have expected that response from such a moral individual as yourself.
Do you know who MTAE is? This sort of response would be (even more) despicable coming from a moral crusader, but at least MTAE doesn't try to be that.

How do you know he was a College Student and not some homeless person planning on spending the night?

Did he show you his ID card?

Why didn't he show is ID to Campus Security?

I'm not saying the police was right, but neither was the student/victim.

I read something that said that he had refused to show ID before. He probably thought that he was making some sort of statement, not necessarily a bad thing for a college student to explore but this certainly did not show him anything about the error of his ways.

And about the assault, I've read multiple times that the student fell to the floor when the police tried to restrain him. He was not tasered due to any violence towards the police officers but by trying to call other students to help him resist.

Do you know who MTAE is? This sort of response would be (even more) despicable coming from a moral crusader, but at least MTAE doesn't try to be that.

I'm not beneath jokes, myself.

Find me a student who has never forgotten/lost his student ID. It won't be easy to do. does that exscuse the person to ignore a request to then leave the premisis when you cannot proprly identify yourself?

The reasonable thing to have done, in this situation, would have been to go up to the library computers and check on his identity. Pretty much every college campus has some other form of recognition. In fact, if you lose your ID, you need that other form of recognition to get it replaced. The pictures are generally on file. and all security guards have the security level to access student ID files on the Library computer... I work in tech support, and security does not have access to any such listing to see who works here or not.

Meanwhile, officers are not entitled to begin using this type of force simply because someone is being an asshole. The officers make a lot of claims that seem to be disputed by every student there. The student accounts claim that he was already leaving the building when he was first tased. After that, he makes it very clear that he intends to leave (watch the video) and is tased again. He may have been an asshole about it, but he was quite obviously prepared to follow the rules.so why did the student wait till security came back with others officers before leaving. why didn't he leave (even make preperations to leave) when he was first requested to do so. he was told REPEATEDLY to leave, and he refused. then the CSO went out and returned with other officers.

both broke the rules, and the video did not make it clear he was leaving when officers arrived, he only said he was leaving.

How do you know he was a College Student and not some homeless person planning on spending the night?

Common sense? Very few homeless persons are clean (well, as clean as college students, anyways) or carry bookbags full of classroom materials. They also are generally not going to be able to log onto computers in a college computer lab, as such computers generally require student passwords.

Did he show you his ID card?

Why didn't he show is ID to Campus Security?

He didn't have his ID on him. It's rather common on college campuses. When I was in school, I locked myself out of my dorm numerous times by leaving it in the pocket of a different pair of pants or in my bookbag or any number of places. I even lost it once or twice and had to wait until the next day to get a replacement. Luckily, the authorities on my campus were reasonable. If you left it in the dorm, they would escort you into the dorm and ask you to show it to them when you got to your room. If you lost it, they would check the campus computers to determine your identity and then instruct you to get a new one as soon as possible.

I'm not saying the police was right, but neither was the student/victim.

Oh, it definitely appears that he was being an asshole, but there is no evidence that he did anything that would warrant being repeatedly stunned with a police taser.

I read something that said that he had refused to show ID before. He probably thought that he was making some sort of statement, not necessarily a bad thing for a college student to explore but this certainly did not show him anything about the error of his ways.If he did refuse to show is ID for no other reason than to make a statement, then I say he deserved his treatment (that's not saying the officers were not wrong.)

And about the assault, I've read multiple times that the student fell to the floor when the police tried to restrain him. He was not tasered due to any violence towards the police officers but by trying to call other students to help him resist.well, according to police (and not refuted by anyone yet) he went limp and refused to move before the taser was applied. the video starts with him on the ground, no evidence of him being thrown down or him going limp. the video doesn't show what started the altercation/confrontation but only shows the ending.

does that exscuse the person to ignore a request to then leave the premisis when you cannot proprly identify yourself?

No, but it does make you wonder why they felt that violence was necessary.

and all security guards have the security level to access student ID files on the Library computer... I work in tech support, and security does not have access to any such listing to see who works here or not.

Perhaps not, but I bet the campus police do. And I'm fairly certain that someone on duty in the library probablly did as well. On most campuses, you can't even enter the library without a card, so someone most likely let him in without.

so why did the student wait till security came back with others officers before leaving. why didn't he leave (even make preperations to leave) when he was first requested to do so. he was told REPEATEDLY to leave, and he refused. then the CSO went out and returned with other officers.

Actually, this is exactly what the student accounts describe. My guess is that he was working on something that he needed to save before leaving, but the student accounts claim that he was standing, with his bookbag, and heading for the door before the officers intercepted him.

both broke the rules, and the video did not make it clear he was leaving when officers arrived, he only said he was leaving.

Student accounts combined with his extremely adamant statement, "I said I would leave!" make it unlikely that he wasn't leaving. Maybe every student there is lying, I don't know, but I doubt it.

How do you know he was a College Student and not some homeless person planning on spending the night?
News article ID'd him as a UCLA student.

And it's pretty easy to spot students as opposed to homeless people. I had that job for a number of years at my school and I could always tell the guys trying to sneak into the lab to sleep vs students studying.

The students were always complaining more... or planning to get drunk.

Did he show you his ID card?

Why didn't he show is ID to Campus Security?
Why? I do not know, could be protest, could have just forgotten it. I had to deal with a number of students who forgot their ID and it was a battle because they would argue for ages over the merits of this particular rule and why they needed to show ID and why I wasn't going to let them into the lab until they showed it.

Never tasered a student though.

I'm not saying the police was right, but neither was the student/victim.
He was being an asshole, I grant you that, but campus police response was well over the top.

In any case, I was enjoying MTAE's ridiculous comment about what nefarious purposes a college student may have in the university library.

Common sense? Very few homeless persons are clean (well, as clean as college students, anyways) or carry bookbags full of classroom materials. They also are generally not going to be able to log onto computers in a college computer lab, as such computers generally require student passwords.so the minute one becomes homeles they are no longer clean? I've always though that took a couple of days at least. :p

I've read stories where people would spend the night at a diner/library pretending to study (complete with books) so they can get some rest.

and can you show that he was logged into a computer? and how do you know he didn't ask another student "Hey I forgot my id/password, can you stay logged on for me buddy?" People allowing others to use their ID/Password is also common.


He didn't have his ID on him. It's rather common on college campuses. When I was in school, I locked myself out of my dorm numerous times by leaving it in the pocket of a different pair of pants or in my bookbag or any number of places. I even lost it once or twice and had to wait until the next day to get a replacement. Luckily, the authorities on my campus were reasonable. If you left it in the dorm, they would escort you into the dorm and ask you to show it to them when you got to your room. If you lost it, they would check the campus computers to determine your identity and then instruct you to get a new one as soon as possible. and if you were asked to show your id and you "forgot it" would you refuse or say "I forgot my id" we don't know what he said, so we can only ASSUME that he forgot it.

Oh, it definitely appears that he was being an asshole, but there is no evidence that he did anything that would warrant being repeatedly stunned with a police taser.except refusing to move when ordered to... well at the begining when his muscles were not repeatedly stunned that is...

now one 1-second taser shot I can see... but that would be much, much later and after a more physical confrontation. I (as an officer) would've carried him out... especially after he was cuffed and there were two of us.

If he did refuse to show is ID for no other reason than to make a statement, then I say he deserved his treatment (that's not saying the officers were not wrong.)

well, according to police (and not refuted by anyone yet) he went limp and refused to move before the taser was applied. the video starts with him on the ground, no evidence of him being thrown down or him going limp. the video doesn't show what started the altercation/confrontation but only shows the ending.

As to the first part, I understand the sentiment but I disagree. I think its normal to have a mistrust of authority as a college student and to explore your rights in terms of civil disobedience. Is it really all that necessary to make a fuss about showing a college ID card when you are using college facilities; I think it is stupid and hypocritical not to. Could the lesson have been learned with a slap on the wrist or even a trip to the police department? I think the lesson would have been much better learned than what he is experiencing now. Which is basically a reward for resisting a silly rule and a mockery of true civil disobedience.

As to the second part, that's why I'm not completely siding with the student. All this will come out after the investigation.

The kid should be compensated and the officers should be fired.

News article ID'd him as a UCLA student.but that night... you only have his word...

And it's pretty easy to spot students as opposed to homeless people. I had that job for a number of years at my school and I could always tell the guys trying to sneak into the lab to sleep vs students studying.

The students were always complaining more... or planning to get drunk.but one is authorized to stay there while the other is tresspassing.

Why? I do not know, could be protest, could have just forgotten it. I had to deal with a number of students who forgot their ID and it was a battle because they would argue for ages over the merits of this particular rule and why they needed to show ID and why I wasn't going to let them into the lab until they showed it.

Never tasered a student though.but were there time you had to call security to remove unauthroized students?

He was being an asshole, I grant you that, but campus police response was well over the top.never argued that. but I do reserve my judgement till after the investigation.

In any case, I was enjoying MTAE's ridiculous comment about what nefarious purposes a college student may have in the university library.>.>
<.<
*decides to play on Mtae's fears.*
(ever hear about the Anarchist Cookbook? it's a book that shows people how to make bombs and other weapons from common everyday items.) Libraries also hold Chemistry books, and other "usefull resources"

yep reading is dangerous... only the Illiterate should be free!

actually, at the bookstore I worked at, we were required to turn in names and addresses of anyone special ordering the Anachist Cookbook to our home office... and this was in the late 1980's

It was easier and safer to lie the customers and say "we cannot order that book."

As to the first part, I understand the sentiment but I disagree. I think its normal to have a mistrust of authority as a college student and to explore your rights in terms of civil disobedience. Is it really all that necessary to make a fuss about showing a college ID card when you are using college facilities; I think it is stupid and hypocritical not to. Could the lesson have been learned with a slap on the wrist or even a trip to the police department? I think the lesson would have been much better learned than what he is experiencing now. Which is basically a reward for resisting a silly rule and a mockery of true civil disobedience.

As to the second part, that's why I'm not completely siding with the student. All this will come out after the investigation.True, but what of this.

he says he doesn't have his ID. after several requests to either produce the ID or leave he leaves. after 30 minutes, he goes back into the library with his ID, then when another patrol comes by,
"where's you ID"
huh? oh I don't have it on me sir...
then you need to leave
when did this start? why should I leave...
etc... then he leaves... comes back 20 minutes later with his ID... and continues this Civil Disobediance. no electrical shocks, no police record. and he gets his point about him getting into the library with an ID so why does he have to show it agian.

no a more honest scenario... he forgot his id. why wouldn't he say that and then ask if his items be keep there while he runs to get his ID?

perhaps he didn't have his ID in an accessable place? say it's at home. ok... so he must then follow the rules. no NON ID'd student in the Library...

to me, I say wait for the investigation to be done. by all parties.

The officers should do time for attempted murder (which is what shooting someone 5 times with a taser is).

The kid should be compensated by UCLA.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.

A college student in the library of a public university? God forbid!

True, but what of this.

he says he doesn't have his ID. after several requests to either produce the ID or leave he leaves. after 30 minutes, he goes back into the library with his ID, then when another patrol comes by,
"where's you ID"
huh? oh I don't have it on me sir...
then you need to leave
when did this start? why should I leave...
etc... then he leaves... comes back 20 minutes later with his ID... and continues this Civil Disobediance. no electrical shocks, no police record. and he gets his point about him getting into the library with an ID so why does he have to show it agian.

no a more honest scenario... he forgot his id. why wouldn't he say that and then ask if his items be keep there while he runs to get his ID?

perhaps he didn't have his ID in an accessable place? say it's at home. ok... so he must then follow the rules. no NON ID'd student in the Library...

to me, I say wait for the investigation to be done. by all parties.
But how exactly does that justify having a librarian call the police on him?

My Billy Goats Gruff joke aside, I don't think MTAE is a troll. A troll tries to rile up the masses by being contrary (even if s/he geniunely believes his contrariness). I don't think MTAE intentionally pisses people off. I think people are pissed off by him and he continues despite knowing this. (It's a subtle distinction, but a real one.) He's just an asshole is all. :) LOL, I'm an asshole. I like dickishness. Please lay off him already.

What I dont understand is how he got in the library in the first place without his ID.

And apparantly, if you talk to police, it gives them the right to tazer you. Not just once, but enough so they can tazer you until you stop speaking.

Oh, and the only reason he was even in trouble was because he was Iranian.

Whitebread dont get no tazer.

No, he didn't show ID. Then he screamed at the officer, saying "Don't touch me!" Then he proceeded to fight against the officer. He did not submit peacefully in any way whatsoever.
He didn't do a damn thing. Saw it myself. (see video)

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

The outlaw should be drawn, quartered, hanged, and have his entrails removed. We must send a message to the peasants, lest they oppose the Sheriff of Nottingham and even the King himself! :eek:

No, he didn't show ID. Then he screamed at the officer, saying "Don't touch me!" Then he proceeded to fight against the officer. He did not submit peacefully in any way whatsoever.
Not showing ID is not a crime.
Yelling at the police is not a crime.
You have no proof that he assaulted the police but we have plenty of proof that the police brutalized him!
There is no requirement to submit to a police officer if you have commited no crime!
I am all for law and order but when the police tazer a student multiple times for the crime of yelling at them it is clearly police brutality.

By being given medals. They did nothing wrong. I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them! I wouldn't have been so lenient on him, that's for sure.

Do you have any proof at all that the student in question assaulted the police?
Have charges of assaulting a police officer been brought against the student?
Why were the other students asking for badge numbers and telling the cops to stop tazering the kid if he assaulted the police?

And how the hell do the police expect someone that they just tazered to get immediately up off the floor?

Yes, but the police officer grabbed his arm to prevent him from doing so, perhaps to ask him some questions. At this point, he became extremely aggressive and needed to be subdued.
Proof?

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.

What nefarious reason?
He was studying in a library!
He was asked to leave because he had no ID and he was leaving.

More forum graffiti for our troll-friendly forum and pro-troll mods.

The mind boggles at this shit.

The mind boggles at this shit.
No kidding. Why does anyone bother responding to him in the first place other than to laugh at the humor, intentional or otherwise?

Resisted arrest, yeah that's just a fine. When you start assaulting police officers you should get a beating and a half so, to suffice that, I'll recommend a short prison sentence, less than 1 year.

Resisted arrest, yeah that's just a fine. When you start assaulting police officers you should get a beating and a half so, to suffice that, I'll recommend a short prison sentence, less than 1 year.
He didn't do anything except resist arrest. I don't know where people are getting all this "lol he pulled an RRPG launcher on the cop" BS.

suspension. temporary or permanent, take your pick.

tasering an unarmed, compliant student who was already cooperating and had only forgotten his ID?

way over the line.

Agreed.

I like the complex part, but the fallacy part doesn't sound so hot. Would you care to point out the "fallacy"?

It is a fallacy in that the question cannot be answered in one way or another, or that a falacy is assumed in the question. For example:

If you were in court, and asked this question first(Say for domestic violence):

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"

The question assumes that you have beaten your wife. No matter how you answer the question, yes or no, there is no way to answer that has a "I have never beaten my wife".

Now, if this question follows after the question:

"Have you ever beaten your wife?"

And the answer is yes, then the first question would not be a falacy. However, to answer your question in any way is to assume that the student was guilty of assault(And please point out to me where he had taken a swing at an officer, which is clearly not what happened), without actually asking the guilt. So, there is your falacy.

And those officers used excessive force, and had very little knowledge(quite obviously) of the weapons which they are yielding. An officer, of any kind, should never brandish a weapon without knowing how to use it. Tazering a person 4-5 times, and actually expecting them to stand on his/her own two feet is complete idiocy. Infact, it can be quite deadly. The guards should be reprimanded heavily, and possible full supension or firing. They do not know how to perform the job, they do not how to use the weapons, they should not have the power to use them.

Simple. As. That. Troll.

You mean the kid who forgot his ID in his dorm, and on his way out was tasered by the cops that the librarian, for some reason, called?

I think the Cops in question should be suspended and that kid should get a fucking apology.


here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1VKZNKnBc

Apology? Fuck that. The cops should be chucked in prison, and the kid should be allowed to sue every one of them, the university, and the city(or county or state) that the cops worked for. When people are tasered, often they can't neccessarily stand back up right away. Trying to force them to do something they can not do, and then continueing to taser them for it is inxecusable and huge violation of our constitutional rights(not that they mean jack shit anymore in the first place).

True, but what of this.

he says he doesn't have his ID. after several requests to either produce the ID or leave he leaves. after 30 minutes, he goes back into the library with his ID, then when another patrol comes by,
"where's you ID"
huh? oh I don't have it on me sir...
then you need to leave
when did this start? why should I leave...
etc... then he leaves... comes back 20 minutes later with his ID... and continues this Civil Disobediance. no electrical shocks, no police record. and he gets his point about him getting into the library with an ID so why does he have to show it agian.

no a more honest scenario... he forgot his id. why wouldn't he say that and then ask if his items be keep there while he runs to get his ID?

perhaps he didn't have his ID in an accessable place? say it's at home. ok... so he must then follow the rules. no NON ID'd student in the Library...

to me, I say wait for the investigation to be done. by all parties.

The kid was being a dick, and should have left immediately, yes. I agree with this. However, he definately did not assault the officers, as MTAE is apparently proclaiming, and he should have been escorted. Tazered once? Maybe. Twice? Pushing it. After the third time, and then telling the kid to stand is rediculous. The officers showed no regard for the weapons which they yielded, showed their complete lack of train, and complete lack of regard for the safety of the student(An actual Police Officer, for instance, would not have tazered him in this instance, as they are trained in more effective, and less dangerous tactics).

Seriously, was the kid out of line? Yes. But not nearly so much so as the officers in this case.

He needed to be questioned further because he didn't have an ID card. You can't just let someone like that walk out because he might have a nefarious reason for being in the library without a card.

No, they asked him to leave. He left. That's what happens in college, MTAE. They don't question why you are there, they tell you to leave if you don't have an ID, at least in all of the colleges I have either been to or have heard of. If you don't leave, they drag your ass out. They don't question why you are there. Was the kid being a dick? Oh hell yes. Should he have been forced to leave? Sure betchya. Should he have been tazered? MAYBE once. The video is unclear as to how it exactly happened, and officers testimonies and the crowd of student's testimonies differ quite a bit, but neither say he actually assaulted the officers, at least as far as what I have seen. Twice tazered? No. Never. One tazer was more than enough, and after the second you are pretty much incapacitated. Three, you are practically paralyzed, and four, you probably aren't going able to do anything involving motor control.

Your complete lack of knowledge about everything you talk about leads me to my conclusions as to your intentions.

What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions?

Nothing too grand - an all-expenses paid, out-of-court settlement in the low six-figure range... you know, just the sort of thing a student could use to pay his tuition for the remainder of his schooling and have a little something left over for a nest egg, a new car and maybe a few geegaws like a game system...

Nothing too grand - an all-expenses paid, out-of-court settlement in the low six-figure range... you know, just the sort of thing a student could use to pay his tuition for the remainder of his schooling and have a little something left over for a nest egg, a new car and maybe a few geegaws like a game system...

Sad thing is, he probably will get it. If that had happened to me, I wouldn't sue(unless I were hospitalized, or other damages occurred due to this, and even then I would only sue for the damages and possible punitive damages, as if I were to be hospilized for a long period of time, it would definately affect whether or not I passed my classes). I would be perfectly happy if the officers were severely reprimanded, either through several weeks of unpaid suspension and training(Actually weapon training, as in they get tazered and maced. Like actual police officers do), or fired completely. The officers obviously did not respect the weapons they yielded, and thus have no right or reason for utilizing them. But, knowing how our legal system works, the kid is going to get an ass-ton of money, and will become a "martyr" so to speak.

What I dont understand is how he got in the library in the first place without his ID.ID is probably not required during the day and evening, only after 11:00

And apparantly, if you talk to police, it gives them the right to tazer you. Not just once, but enough so they can tazer you until you stop speaking.correction.. if you resist or don't do what they say... other students are seen talking to the officers with no shocking results.

Oh, and the only reason he was even in trouble was because he was Iranian.lastest articles have the witnesses saying that nothing seemed racist about the officer's actions.

Whitebread dont get no tazer.Whitebread knows when to shut the fuck up and do what the officer holding the taser says. others would look at the gun welding nutcase and call him a stupid fuck in his face thinking the nutcase won't shoot.

No, they asked him to leave. He left. correction he didn't leave. The officer asked repeatedly for ID or for him to leave, he refused, then the officer went out to get reinforcements and came back, THEN he stood up TO LEAVE when the officers returned (at least he was still in the library when the officers returned.) big difference.

[snipped] agreed. which is why I would rather wait to see what the investigations reveal.

The kid was being a dick, and should have left immediately, yes. I agree with this. However, he definately did not assault the officers, as MTAE is apparently proclaiming, and he should have been escorted. Tazered once? Maybe. Twice? Pushing it. After the third time, and then telling the kid to stand is rediculous. The officers showed no regard for the weapons which they yielded, showed their complete lack of train, and complete lack of regard for the safety of the student(An actual Police Officer, for instance, would not have tazered him in this instance, as they are trained in more effective, and less dangerous tactics).

Seriously, was the kid out of line? Yes. But not nearly so much so as the officers in this case.
I never said the Kid assaulted anyone. he resisted arrest. big difference.

In contrast to the OP, how should the police officers be reprimanded?
Severely, loss of jobs, criminal charges. Depending on other factors, possibly they should be liable to civil suite.

http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960

It should be noted this particular quote within the link:

A Taser delivers volts of low-amperage energy to the body, causing a disruption of the body's electrical energy pulses and locking the muscles, according to a report by the American Civil Liberties Union.

"It's an electrical shock. ... It causes pain," Young said, adding that the drive stun would not likely demobilize a person or cause residual pain after the shock was administered. Young also said a Taser is less forceful than a baton, for example.

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

This supports what I said in my earlier post about how the officers were possibly forcing him to do something he wasn't able to, and continueing to shock him for it.

My Billy Goats Gruff joke aside, I don't think MTAE is a troll. A troll tries to rile up the masses by being contrary (even if s/he geniunely believes his contrariness). I don't think MTAE intentionally pisses people off. I think people are pissed off by him and he continues despite knowing this. (It's a subtle distinction, but a real one.) He's just an asshole is all. :) LOL, I'm an asshole. I like dickishness. Please lay off him already.
MTAE is obviously a troll (advocates slavery, spouts brainless talking points), but it's alarming that people like Skibbereen say shit like this.

I didn't vote on this poll because I don't know the whole story.

I'm calling into question the video from the video cell phone. My phone for example will only record a maximum of 30 seconds. This video being shown is well over that time and I didn't notice any glitches indicating end of recording and then re-recording. Do some video phones record longer are they're any sources? I know the video phones are fairly new but I though all phones were only able to record a few seconds and not well into several minutes. It just makes me curious to know the truth.

I didn't vote on this poll because I don't know the whole story.

I'm calling into question the video from the video cell phone. My phone for example will only record a maximum of 30 seconds. This video being shown is well over that time and I didn't notice any glitches indicating end of recording and then re-recording. Do some video phones record longer are they're any sources? I know the video phones are fairly new but I though all phones were only able to record a few seconds and not well into several minutes. It just makes me curious to know the truth.

Depends on the memory card you have inserted. Stick a 1 gig flash card in there and you're all set for a decent length recording.

I didn't vote on this poll because I don't know the whole story.

I'm calling into question the video from the video cell phone. My phone for example will only record a maximum of 30 seconds. This video being shown is well over that time and I didn't notice any glitches indicating end of recording and then re-recording. Do some video phones record longer are they're any sources? I know the video phones are fairly new but I though all phones were only able to record a few seconds and not well into several minutes. It just makes me curious to know the truth.

Some phones double as MP3 players. 512mb of memory (What i'd figure is the bare minimum nowadays) is more than enough for a couple of minutes of grainy footage.
Depends on the memory card you have inserted. Stick a 1 gig flash card in there and you're all set for a decent length recording.


That, too.

Find me a student who has never forgotten/lost his student ID. It won't be easy to do.

The reasonable thing to have done, in this situation, would have been to go up to the library computers and check on his identity. Pretty much every college campus has some other form of recognition. In fact, if you lose your ID, you need that other form of recognition to get it replaced. The pictures are generally on file.

Meanwhile, officers are not entitled to begin using this type of force simply because someone is being an asshole. The officers make a lot of claims that seem to be disputed by every student there. The student accounts claim that he was already leaving the building when he was first tased. After that, he makes it very clear that he intends to leave (watch the video) and is tased again. He may have been an asshole about it, but he was quite obviously prepared to follow the rules.

Interestingly enough, the cop using the taser, when asked by another student for his name and badge number, threatened that student with his weapon. Believe it or not, citizens are entitled to ask a police officer for that information. When asked for it by a bystander, this officer threatened the student, rather than giving it. I cannot imagine how anyone can pretend that the officers were not out of line.

The Police are not required to go check computers unless it is their computers not library computers.
Next, as i stated it is a CRIME to 1. Not show ID on demand of the police, and 2. a Crime not carry ID on your person in nearly every state in the Union and I am willing to bet that is the case in California.

The cops are not always the bad guys, just because you simple minded fecks think that people do need to comply with societal norms doesnt make it so.
The point of the Taser is to reduce the potential for physical violence...as even the students on this fecktards side said he started shouting and trying to get people to join in his protest...it wasnt a fecking protest--he broke the law and thought he would incite a riot to save his ass.

I say again--a bullet would have been a better solution.

The point of the Taser is to reduce the potential for physical violence...as even the students on this fecktards side said he started shouting and trying to get people to join in his protest...it wasnt a fecking protest--he broke the law and thought he would incite a riot to save his ass.

They did? Gee, the news sources I saw didn't support your arguement, and in fact, some said the opposite.

I clicked "a long prison sentence", but I didn't read the question and thought we were talking about the people who shot him. Oh well.

I'll use this opportunity to distance myself from MTAE. I think the officers should be reprimanded.

Although I will say that the student's actions, combined with the fact that he was Iranian, sound to me like they were him trying to be a big man and stick it to the Great Satan.

it is a CRIME to 1. Not show ID on demand of the police
Since he obviously didn't have his ID on him, or he wouldn't have left, this is an incredibly stupid demand.

"I'm on my way out for not taking my card with me..."
"We'd like to see some ID, please"
"Urmm... well I'm leaving because I can't show them my ID"

You see?
I say again--a bullet would have been a better solution.
Yes, that's because you're a nutter, though.

Is this a good time to remind y'all that they WEREN'T cops? They were hired campus security.

Thank you for the insight on video phones. I had mine for a little more than 2 years now but I don't really use mine. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with technology nowadays. Wondering what may come out next when you'd think they're at the limits. :D

Although I will say that the student's actions, combined with the fact that he was Iranian, sound to me like they were him trying to be a big man and stick it to the Great Satan.

Just because he's an Iranian-American doesn't mean he's a fanatical supporter of the Iranian government. Any more than being American necessarily makes him a raving fan of Bush. :rolleyes: Especially since (unless he's a foreign student) he's either an emigrant or the son of an emigrant.

No, they asked him to leave. He left.

No, he started to leave and the security officer grabbed his arm. Guess what, people? When in public, people may actually touch you. It does not give you the right to spaz out and do all sorts of pricky shit. If a cop grabbed my arm, I certainly wouldn't start screaming at them; that is an invitation to be restrained. It's absurd to think that there's a boundary which prevents a cop from touching your arm -- deal with it, people; don't throw a fit every time it happens. Anyway, after his arm was touched, he became extremely aggressive and possibly violent. He needed to be subdued, as a can't risk the student having a weapon or assaulting him. He was promptly shocked with the Taser, and for good reason. However, he proceeded with his anti-government spiel and threw a temper tantrum, forcing the officers to shock him into submission. And for people who think that I'm a troll for taking such a viewpoint, you should know that most people think that a kid shouldn't have the right to mess with the police like that. Here are some choice quotes from a similar topic on another forum (http://newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=606152).

That doesn't seem like abuse at all to me. You're just trying to overjustify the student's position-- but he was obviously trying to provoke trouble. The police did not tase him for 5 seconds, as you claim, and when they initially told him to stand up they were trying to pull him up. You can see them trying to lift him to his feet, but he refuses to actually stand. He is obviously being just the kind of little ass that police hate to deal with, and he wasn't doing anything willingly. If he was high-strung enough to scream "GET OFF OF ME!" when the police tried to escort him out, he was a troublemaker. Plus, the video is pretty inconclusive on most of it because of bad angles or no line of sight.

Why in the name of God the lord almighty are you all arguing with Begoner. Hes a socialist (moron) who doesn't believe in physical punishment or capitalism. As for my say in this, there are people worrying about the heart problem thing. If you claim to have a heart problem ro whatever, you better have proof with you, or else it don't mean jack shit whether you actually have it (the problem) or not. As for the tazering, hopefully this kid will have learned to cooperate with the police and obey the laws. Keep in mind none of thiss would've happened had he not been doing anything wrong in the first place (in this case being in a restricted area without I.D.)

I mean I still cant get over this. Who the fuck screams at the cops for touching your fucking arm. Who the fuck does that. A fucking crazy ass bitch, thats looking to make a scene and get attention. Fuck that attention whore and I hope they taze his fucking nutsack next time.

You know, normally I'd be on the side of someone against police using force when a situation like this comes up, but this guy was obviously trying to make some sort of protest scene at the library. I don't know about you, but if I was trying to study at the university library (for classes that I'm paying shitloads of tuition to take) and some douche came in and started making such a scene that campus security had to throw him out, then the police had to show up and the guy started screaming and yelling out his fucking political ideology and making and even bigger louder scene than before, I'd be pissed off at the guy, not the cops.

Troll, my ass.

No, he started to leave and the security officer grabbed his arm. Guess what, people? When in public, people may actually touch you. It does not give you the right to spaz out and do all sorts of pricky shit. If a cop grabbed my arm, I certainly wouldn't start screaming at them; that is an invitation to be restrained. It's absurd to think that there's a boundary which prevents a cop from touching your arm

What if his civil rights were that boundry? I agree that it's stupid to provoke cops, but provoke or not, there not allowed to do that by law, just because they were angered by him. Not that they don't get away with it most of the time.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

Pffft! None.

There should be consequenses for the officers involved though.

Just because he's an Iranian-American doesn't mean he's a fanatical supporter of the Iranian government. Any more than being American necessarily makes him a raving fan of Bush. :rolleyes: Especially since (unless he's a foreign student) he's either an emigrant or the son of an emigrant.

I'm just saying.

And for people who think that I'm a troll for taking such a viewpoint, you should know that most people think that a kid shouldn't have the right to mess with the police like that.

First, it isn't the viewpoint that makes you a troll. It's how you present it and "debate" it.

Secondly, most people think that, eh? A few "choice quotes" proves nothing, and even in your own thread 73% (at the moment) thinks the kid shouldn't be punished, a good indication that you're wrong. But hey, feel free to back up the "most people" statement...

I don't think he's a troll. I just think he's what mike reed would call a furious typer. He reads and posts quickly, a little too quickly and mistakenly misses context(both his own and that of his opponents). He's not trying to be provocative, just making mistakes.

By being given medals. They did nothing wrong. I was surprised that they didn't use more brutal methods of beating that prick into submission -- he attacked them! I wouldn't have been so lenient on him, that's for sure.
Ein kleiner Gansschritt für Mann. Polizei gibt Oberstes an.

Godwin time. :eek:

Is this a good time to remind y'all that they WEREN'T cops? They were hired campus security.

Campus police, at least in UCLA, are sworn peace officers with all the powers of regular police officers.

Campus police, at least in UCLA, are sworn peace officers with all the powers of regular police officers.

How the hell can you give someone police powers?

True, but what of this.

he says he doesn't have his ID. after several requests to either produce the ID or leave he leaves. after 30 minutes, he goes back into the library with his ID, then when another patrol comes by,
"where's you ID"
huh? oh I don't have it on me sir...
then you need to leave
when did this start? why should I leave...
etc... then he leaves... comes back 20 minutes later with his ID... and continues this Civil Disobediance. no electrical shocks, no police record. and he gets his point about him getting into the library with an ID so why does he have to show it agian.

no a more honest scenario... he forgot his id. why wouldn't he say that and then ask if his items be keep there while he runs to get his ID?

perhaps he didn't have his ID in an accessable place? say it's at home. ok... so he must then follow the rules. no NON ID'd student in the Library...

to me, I say wait for the investigation to be done. by all parties.

But that is supposing that no disciplinary action is taking at all and that shocking students is the only way to punish them. There are other, tamer and more sane, ways to discipline a student.

How the hell can you give someone police powers?

I can't, but the State of California can, and does. Someone mentioned it in the last thread. I'll see if the google goggles can find anything relevant.

UCPD officers are duly sworn peace officers under California Penal Code Section 830.2(b), authorized to carry firearms, and have the same authority as municipal police officers to use police powers of arrest
http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/clery.htm

Troll, my ass.

All you did was provide a biased account of what happened. You your self did not provide any solid base of information. You posted no links or stickies to any other site other than this one. That, my friend, makes you a troll.

The student could have stopped the ordeal at any time by saying "I'm sorry" and ceasing to struggle against the police officers. He didn't. He's guilty as sin.

The student could have stopped the ordeal at any time by saying "I'm sorry" and ceasing to struggle against the police officers. He didn't. He's guilty as sin.

He wasn't struggling. He allowed his body to go limp making it difficult for the dibble to manhandle him.

The student could have stopped the ordeal at any time by saying "I'm sorry" and ceasing to struggle against the police officers. He didn't. He's guilty as sin.
He was getting fucking tasered. I wouldn't be in the mood to say sorry. I'd be in the mood to rip their heads off.

The student could have stopped the ordeal at any time by saying "I'm sorry" and ceasing to struggle against the police officers. He didn't. He's guilty as sin.

And you honestly think by saying "sorry" during this "ordeal" everything would have stopped?

From ABC News.com...

"He had refused to identify himself; he had refused to leave the library, and he also — when he was escorted by the officers at first — he went limp, which is a form of resistance," Young said.

So, according to this, he had refused to leave, which, if true, would probably justify shoving him out. But going limp? Since when does that= assault?

Doy... link. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2662158&page=2)

And you honestly think by saying "sorry" during this "ordeal" everything would have stopped?

No, he also had to quit struggling. He wasn't only going limp; he was actively resisting.

No, he also had to quit struggling. He wasn't only going limp; he was actively resisting.

Proof?

No, he also had to quit struggling. He wasn't only going limp; he was actively resisting.

See: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11969224&postcount=130

It seems the police disagree with you.

By the way, was I the only one that went dislexic and thought it was an ACLU student for a moment?

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

Was he Iranian?

Was he Iranian?

Iranian American, as MTAE pointed out.

But what does it matter?

Iranian American, as MTAE pointed out.

But what does it matter?

Sub-conscious acts of police if not conscious?

No, he didn't show ID. Then he screamed at the officer, saying "Don't touch me!" Then he proceeded to fight against the officer. He did not submit peacefully in any way whatsoever.

LIAR!

He was in the libary, like any other student. Then he proceded to leave and was stoped by police and touched by one of them, which the police are not allowed to do if they have no grounds for it. He then rightly told them not to touch him and before anything else happened, they tazered him, multiple times, which is an even more grave form of assault and injury.

He should get full compenstation and any record held against him by the police expunged.

Furthermore, the police in question should be sacked and a review made as to getting the police out of campuses and schools altogether, as they have a track record of racism and police brutality and do more harm then good.

Of course the truth does not fit in well with your bigoted far-right views, but though shit!

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

Idiot, defenestrate thyself.

Sub-conscious acts of police if not conscious?

was getting ready to yell at you until I saw that. OK, good redemption...I'll admit that his race may have "mattered" in the sense that it may have triggered a racial response by the police.

And I am still waiting to see at what point, ever, the student assaulted the police. One eye witness, one police report, one single shred of evidence to suggest that there was aever an assault made against the police.

"going limp" doesn't count. It's also not resisted arrest, as there's no evidence to suggest he was under arrest.

was getting ready to yell at you until I saw that. OK, good redemption...I'll admit that his race may have "mattered" in the sense that it may have triggered a racial response by the police.

And I am still waiting to see at what point, ever, the student assaulted the police. One eye witness, one police report, one single shred of evidence to suggest that there was aever an assault made against the police.

"going limp" doesn't count. It's also not resisted arrest, as there's no evidence to suggest he was under arrest.

It's not only racial, it's also religious...

It's not only racial, it's also religious...

sure, fair enough. I have no evidence to conclude one way or another but I'll admit that could have played into a bias of the officers.

sure, fair enough. I have no evidence to conclude one way or another but I'll admit that could have played into a bias of the officers.

It might also played into a bias of the one who's been arrested. Like:

"Patriotic act of USA, fascist state, etc.." (dont remember exact words)

Maybe the arrested guy would be more cooperative towards a muslim looking officer?
Like maybe he wouldnt say "dont touch me" because that seemed unneccassary. I dont think the police would touch him in an inappropriate place like butt or crotch. He did probably hold his arm...

I dont think the police would touch him in an inappropriate place like butt or crotch. He did probably hold his arm...

Any place on his body that they touched without permission, or without engaging in a custodial arrest is an inappropriate place.

The police do not have the right to lay one hand on the body of another person, unless they are actively engaging in an arrest of that person. It is inappropriate for an officer of the law to touch a private citizen's body, regardless of whether it's ass or crotch or face or arm or shoulder.

Intentional contact without permission is battery.

It might also played into a bias of the one who's been arrested.

He was NEVER ACTUALLY ARRESTED. That's the point. The police never actually put him under arrest, therefore he can't resist an arrest that was never imposed on him. In addition, absent an arrest, they can't touch him.

Maybe the arrested guy would be more cooperative towards a muslim looking officer?


Perhaps he might have been more comfortable with a muslim officer, but don't call him the "arrested guy" as he wasn't arrested.

Any place on his body that they touched without permission, or without engaging in a custodial arrest is an inappropriate place.

The police do not have the right to lay one hand on the body of another person, unless they are actively engaging in an arrest of that person. It is inappropriate for an officer of the law to touch a private citizen's body, regardless of whether it's ass or crotch or face or arm or shoulder.

Intentional contact without permission is battery.

It was already a big scene. "Dont touch me!!" was provacative to a degree. And we dont know what happened before the camera shoot. Did the police ask him to leave nicely? How many times? There's a difference between if he stood up after 1st request to leave or 5th...

It might also played into a bias of the one who's been arrested. Like:

"Patriotic act of USA, fascist state, etc.." (dont remember exact words)

Maybe not outright fascism of the classical style, with the corporate state etc... as laid down in the 'Encyclopedia of the Doctrine of Fascism', which was the written gospel of Mussolini's Italy.

But the Patriot Act has created the means for an autocratic (even if it not fascist) system to set itself up in the US. Such has been the abuse of state power by the Patriot Act that it has to go.

Maybe the arrested guy would be more cooperative towards a muslim looking officer?
Like maybe he wouldnt say "dont touch me" because that seemed unneccassary. I dont think the police would touch him in an inappropriate place like butt or crotch. He did probably hold his arm...

Irrelevent, it does not matter where the policemen touched the man, unless they had already had grounds for it (ie: evidence that the student had been engaged in actions which broke the law), they cannot touch him anywhere, thats assault.

And the response only proves that these so-called policemen were nothing but hired thugs, who got a kick out of injuring someone and hurting them with no grounds for it.

Like I said, send the police to jail and look at whether this presence of police at schools and universities is needed at all, as they seem to serve no other purpose than intimidating people into authority, which seems to be in vogue in the US right now.

It was already a big scene. "Dont touch me!!" was provacative to a degree.

It doesn't matter. It is long held law in this country that the police can not seek action against you when you assert your rights. He has the right not ot be touched, and saying "don't touch me" is thus an assertion of his rights.

By definition the assertion of your rights can not be treated as provocation for police action. He asserted his rights, he has a right to do so. By claiming it was "provocative" and using that as justification, you are asserting that the result occured when he asserted his rights to bodily autonomy.

That's illegal. The assertion of your rights can not be cosnidered provocation.

By now, most of you probably know the story of the Iranian-America UCLA student who disturbed the peace, resisted arrest, assaulted some police officers, etc., who were only doing their jobs. What sentence do you think the student should receive for his actions? Poll coming.

He should get a small fine for forgetting his ID.
And a huge apology and recompensation for the excessive force used against him without provocation or reason.