NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay to make a long story short, why do the US/European public in general know more about Third Reich atrocities than those commited by Imperial Japanese during (and before) World War II?

If you need examples, there is always the "Nanjing Massacre" ,"Unit 731" and "Comfort Women".

It wasn't just the local population, American and European POW were used in all manners of sadistic "experiments". Here's a short list of the highlights:

* Vivisections were performed on prisoners infected with various diseases.
* Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss.
* Some prisoners' limbs were frozen and sawn off.
* Human targets were used to test grenades positioned at various distances and in different positions.
* Flame throwers were tested on humans.
* Some prisoners were placed into high pressure chambers until they died.
* Sea water was injected into some prisoners to determine if it could be substituted for saline.

Easy, because the US needed a strong industrialised buffer-state for the Soviet bloc, plus a specialised state to create a better market for the US, so it was forgotten. Plus the Japanese suffered badly after the war.

Easy, because the US needed a strong industrialised buffer-state for the Soviet bloc, plus a specialised state to create a better market for the US, so it was forgotten. Plus the Japanese suffered badly after the war.
What i was going to say.
Most atrocities were commited against the Chinese or other Asians not white folk.
Of course there were the POW camps, but Japan was needed to help stop the Soivets if the need arose.

Allow me to counter that question with another questoin:

Why are people in eastern Asian cultures so unaware of the atrocities of Nazi germany? Many chinese people I've met seem unable to grasp to scope of such matters as the holocaust.

The anwser I think would be the one allready presented to you, namely that when such atrocities are far away from you in a global, cultural and ethnic sense then you tend to care less.

I don't think the Japanese have ever admitted to, much less apologised for, their war crimes, unlike Germany. Japanese textbooks make no mention of things like the Burma Railway or the Rape of Nanking.

Because there was no Chinese/Korean Simon Wiesenthal.:mad:

kay to make a long story short, why do the US/European public in general know more about Third Reich atrocities than those commited by Imperial Japanese during (and before) World War II?

I dunno. China is a faraway country, somewhat feared.
Most Europeans don't understand Chinese.
Besides, the Holocaust happened in Europe.....

Also, the Japanese are quite adept at denying what their army did.
Not that much denial in Germany.

Why don't they come clear and point out that it was caused by supremacism,
and extremism. From what one heard about the atmosphere in pre war Japan..
It's all about hate.

I have read one book...about the Nanjing massacre.
(but I am a collector of useless knowledge.. most young people where I live don't have much of a clue about the holocaust either.. even though parts of it happend in my country too. Some don't even know in which year WWII started. )
Can't remember the name.. by a chinese-american journalist.
Iris Chang? Maybe.

Kudos to Japanese.. apparently, they were second to none in performance when it came to rape & pillage ... helped them a lot when the marines came preceded by 16 inch naval bombardement.


But I wouldn't be pushing this very hard. It's the past. Future behaviour of troops is of more interest now.
I wonder how Chinese nationalists are going to behave if there'll be a war.
(from what I heard, there are some very unpleasant young chinese hotheads... )

If someone is a (Han|Jap|Red|White|... ) supremacist who believe others are inferior, abuse is what might happen if you put him into uniform, issue him a gun and send him to a foreign country. Especially if the locals seems unhappy with foreign troop presence. Which is almost always.

Troops who maintain discipline and good conducts voluntarily are rare.
(The Japanese Imperial Army reportedly was not very abusive in the 1905 Russo-Japanese war)

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I am trying to emulate the Mauna from Fragile Allegiance in my country... though NS is not expressive enough. Mauna are supposed to be a nightmare cross of Stalinism / Sparta, with penchant for thermonuclear weaponry, summary execution, trigger happy to the extreme, unhealthily enthusiastic in combat and very fond of overkill .. and anything that kills in fact. Yeah-- and Little Grey Aliens too...

I don't think the Japanese have ever admitted to, much less apologised for, their war crimes, unlike Germany. Japanese textbooks make no mention of things like the Burma Railway or the Rape of Nanking.

Fact: Germany is the ONLY country in history to acknowledge it's war crimes. ONLY.

The past still hurts in Japan, and they aren't as open about it as Germany became. Most Japanese war criminals are dead, hung like Tojo or died in the war, it's not like theres some living in Argentina, theres still alot of hatred against in the Japanese in SE Asia though, I mean did you see the outcry when the Japanese Pres visited the graves of war criminals.

Fact: Germany is the ONLY country in history to acknowledge it's war crimes. ONLY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Compensation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Compensation

Ok. Germany, and occassionally Japan. Happy?

I think you'll find that Australians are QUITE well informed on the subject of Japanese War Crimes, JiangGuo (incidentally, that's (the) Middle Kingdom, isn't it?), being on the receiving end of a fair bit of it, if not the same level as the Chinese. Likewise Americans will be more knowedgable of it that the average European, simply because of proximity.

I've often wondered about why Japanese troops did as they did. Culture can't be the only reason; they were professional and respected troops in 1905, 1895 (both against Russia) and, at the relief of the Embassies in Peking, were the only part of the multinational force that didn't go out of control and sack the city. Nor can the rise in respect for code of the Samurai be blamed; Bushido was all about self control.

I must do more research on the problem when I have the time - Hah!...

I think you'll find that Australians are QUITE well informed on the subject of Japanese War Crimes, JiangGuo (incidentally, that's (the) Middle Kingdom, isn't it?), being on the receiving end of a fair bit of it, if not the same level as the Chinese. Likewise Americans will be more knowedgable of it that the average European, simply because of proximity.

I've often wondered about why Japanese troops did as they did. Culture can't be the only reason; they were professional and respected troops in 1905, 1895 (both against Russia) and, at the relief of the Embassies in Peking, were the only part of the multinational force that didn't go out of control and sack the city. Nor can the rise in respect for code of the Samurai be blamed; Bushido was all about self control.

I must do more research on the problem when I have the time - Hah!...

Some stuff I've read on the reconstruction and democratisation effort in Japan after the war says that many Americans believed that Japan's oppressive and restrained society and culture, combined with the intense militarisation that took place in the 1930s, and the tough and extreme corporal punishment regime in the army

= young repressed men lashing out in situations of war and violence

Not to forget that the general propaganda of the pre-war years was all about Japan's superiority and super power status as the leader of Asia. That's why their empire was euphemistically named the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
As a result, the American occupiers believed that Japan's society, economy, politics and culture had to be democratised and demilitarised.
But since this grand plan for Japan didn't quite pan out like that, it surely can't be the only explanation.

JiangGuo (incidentally, that's (the) Middle Kingdom, isn't it?)

No, it wasn't intended that way. It was one of those little Chinese fiefdoms during the Warring States period. I am an American working as a Chinese translator you see, and I kind of like my work.

I don't think the Japanese have ever admitted to, much less apologised for, their war crimes, unlike Germany. Japanese textbooks make no mention of things like the Burma Railway or the Rape of Nanking.
You know... as much as westerners don't know about Japanese war crimes, they also don't seem to know that Japan has admitted to them and has apologized* a number of times. Those textbooks which you claim make no mention, do in fact, make mention. The textbook that's causing all the problems is written by a pro-nationalist group and is used by less than 1% of Japanese junior high school, usually because of public outcry when the local boards consider using it.

They know, they know.




*There is a good argument to be made over the wording used and other issues though.

I've often wondered about why Japanese troops did as they did. Culture can't be the only reason; they were professional and respected troops in 1905, 1895 (both against Russia) and, at the relief of the Embassies in Peking, were the only part of the multinational force that didn't go out of control and sack the city. Nor can the rise in respect for code of the Samurai be blamed; Bushido was all about self control.

You got to remember though, the average Japanese troop was conscripted and not treated all that much better by the officer corp than the enemy he was fighting. After WWII, when SCAP announced that it would be holding trials for war crimes, most of the ones who came to trial were turned in by their own men, the same men who then admitted that if it wasn't for the threat of retaliation against their families back home in Japan, they would have killed said officers.

In my experience, people don’t know shit about anything that happened more than twenty years ago, period. It isn’t exclusive to Japan’s War Crimes.

The past still hurts in Japan, and they aren't as open about it as Germany became. Most Japanese war criminals are dead, hung like Tojo or died in the war, it's not like theres some living in Argentina, theres still alot of hatred against in the Japanese in SE Asia though, I mean did you see the outcry when the Japanese Pres visited the graves of war criminals.
That said, a lot of that outcry is merely posturing by the Chinese govt for various reasons (economic as well as appeasement to their own populace). I don't think the PRC gives a damn really about WWII. But they do give a damn about artificially creating diversions for their burgeoning population to distract them from the growing social problems there.
Look at the rioting over the grave visit last year: Started up pretty much everywhere in China simultaneously, went for a week and then magically stopped. Usually any time there's a disturbance, the police or army stop it asap, and usually violently asap at that. These were left to run for a week. You can't tell me that they weren't planned and carefully orchastrated by the PRC.


Japan doesn't help itself though. They haven't apologised, afaik, about their use of 'comfort' women - just recently yet another court case brought by these women failed.
Also the level of nationalism among some Japanese is frightening. Some celebrate their WWII atrocities. Again last year, on the anniversary of the Rape of Nanjing, a couple of hundred Japanese men went over to China, booked an entire hotel and hired a few hundred Chinese prostitutes to 'celebrate' the anniversary.
Imagine the outcry if some German neo-facists did something similar.

Okay to make a long story short, why do the US/European public in general know more about Third Reich atrocities than those commited by Imperial Japanese during (and before) World War II?


I know way more about the Japanese side of things.

Anyone else read this thread title as Japanese Wii atrocities?

Damn, it's been a long week.

Anyone else read this thread title as Japanese Wii atrocities?

Damn, it's been a long week.
You've obviously been waiting for Wii a bit too much. ;)

Japan doesn't help itself though. They haven't apologised, afaik, about their use of 'comfort' women - just recently yet another court case brought by these women failed.
They have though.

Also the level of nationalism among some Japanese is frightening. Some celebrate their WWII atrocities.
Quite true, and the right wing in Japan is scary (and loud, goddamn those buggers and their bloody sound trucks!), but it is a very small segment of the population, I'd say probably no more than the current extream right wring in Germany who worship Hitler and Nazism, or the same in America for that matter.

Again last year, on the anniversary of the Rape of Nanjing, a couple of hundred Japanese men went over to China, booked an entire hotel and hired a few hundred Chinese prostitutes to 'celebrate' the anniversary.
Imagine the outcry if some German neo-facists did something similar.
Um... that wasn't them celebrating the Rape of Nanjing, that was a couple hundred drunken Japanese business men being drunken Japanese business men, sadly then tend to act that way in Japan as well. What pissed off the Chinese was that, yes, it was during the anniversary (not good timing), and that all the prostitutes were Chinese.

Anyone else read this thread title as Japanese Wii atrocities?

Damn, it's been a long Wiik.Corrected :p

Ok. Germany, and occassionally Japan. Happy?

I guess... <.< *mutters something*

After Hiroshima and Nagisaki, it's hard to complain much about what atrocities the Japanese may have committed during WWII.

Especially because, if we talk much about them, there is that feeling that certain people will see the bombings "Justified" In light of the things the Japanese military did.

After Hiroshima and Nagisaki, it's hard to complain much about what atrocities the Japanese may have committed during WWII.

Especially because, if we talk much about them, there is that feeling that certain people will see the bombings "Justified" In light of the things the Japanese military did.
How does Hiroshima and Nagasaki cancel out war crimes committed by Imperial Japan?

How does Hiroshima and Nagasaki cancel out war crimes committed by Imperial Japan?

It doesn't. It just makes them something Americans don't feel comfortable commenting on.

It doesn't. It just makes them something Americans don't feel comfortable commenting on.
Commenting on the war crimes? Who do you think started the comments in the first place?

On the bombings? That's an on going argument in the States as well.

Commenting on the war crimes? Who do you think started the comments in the first place?

On the bombings? That's an on going argument in the States as well.

What I'm saying is that most Americans feel uncomfortable criticizing imperial japan much, because we have a deep sense of guilt about the nukes. Criticizing their actions seems to be trailing down a path of saying that the bombings were justified because the Japanese military did X, Y, and Z, and we don't want that to become an ideal or a precedent.

I am not excusing the Rape of Nanjing, simply explaining one reason why Americans rarely touch the issue of Imperial Japan.

In my experience, people don’t know shit about anything that happened more than twenty years ago, period. It isn’t exclusive to Japan’s War Crimes.

A truly sad state of affairs. I was once asked, "Where's the Soviet Union?"

Anyone else read this thread title as Japanese Wii atrocities?

Damn, it's been a long week.

The Nintendo Wii may not be good, but I doubt it'll qualify as an atrocity.

You've obviously been waiting for Wii a bit too much. ;)
I actually could care less about it.

Anime. I can forget virtually anything for good entertainment.

In my experience, people don’t know shit about anything that happened more than twenty years ago, period. It isn’t exclusive to Japan’s War Crimes.

That's for sure. Hell, I don't even know what I had for breakfast yesterday. :confused:

It doesn't. It just makes them something Americans don't feel comfortable commenting on.

Never has for me. The nuclear attacks on Japan were 100% the right thing to do - a triumph, not a disgrace.

Never has for me. The nuclear attacks on Japan were 100% the right thing to do - a triumph, not a disgrace.
Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, killing 200,000+ civilians is not a triumph.

Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, killing 200,000+ civilians is not a triumph.

You are wrong. This was a triumph of life over death - for while thousands died, millions lived. The triumph was not the destruction, but the strength to act, and the willingness to make a choice.

Okay to make a long story short, why do the US/European public in general know more about Third Reich atrocities than those commited by Imperial Japanese during (and before) World War II?

If you need examples, there is always the "Nanjing Massacre" ,"Unit 731" and "Comfort Women".

It wasn't just the local population, American and European POW were used in all manners of sadistic "experiments". Here's a short list of the highlights:

* Vivisections were performed on prisoners infected with various diseases.
* Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss.
* Some prisoners' limbs were frozen and sawn off.
* Human targets were used to test grenades positioned at various distances and in different positions.
* Flame throwers were tested on humans.
* Some prisoners were placed into high pressure chambers until they died.
* Sea water was injected into some prisoners to determine if it could be substituted for saline.

I dont know what everyone else said (only read the OP) I happen to well read on what the Japanese did, and I remain shocked there is not an equal outrage in the West to that of the Jewish Holocaust.
The Nazis were disgusted by what the Japanese ...NAZIs. SS NAZIs---That should be a clear indicator of the horror the Chinese were subjected to from the Japanese occupiers.
America doesnt teach in public schools that the Japanese did ANYTHING to the Chinese (at least not when I was in school) they are our happy allies in the Pacific and we should all buy their products and be glad to have Sushi and Nintendo.
I imiagine for political reason, an operating base near communist China to observe the "Red Threat", quick access to South East Asia in general.
The knowledge that without American presence the Chinese would have most certainly come for revenge against a defenseless Japan(and rightfully so) also that perhaps at the time they didnt want the Japanese looked at too closely as American Chemical/Biological Weapons programs for the cold war were based almost in their entirety off of the Japanese programs used on the Chinese.

I dont know, why today there is not more general knowledge taught, besides they still dont want to encourage sympathy towards a Communist state in the minds of the general population.

Yeah we get taught pretty well about the Japanese war crimes in Australia. Particularly their treatment of POWs (Changi, Railroad of death, etc). Less so their behaviour in China/SEasia. Those guys were fucked up. Canabalism, decapitation, brutality, disembowelment, starvation, biological death experiments, mass civilian rape/murder, poisoning entire town populations, suicide attacks, all sorts of messed up shit. In my opinion, living under the Japanese Empire would have been worse than living under the Nazi empire. I mean the Nazis killed a lot of people, but the Japanese seemed to be much much crueler in their execution of their war crimes. Further, the Nazis would kill you if you were from a few select racial groups, dislike you if you were anything else, and leave you alone if you were white. In contrast, the Japanese would hate you if you weren't..Japanese.

Well thats my take on it.