NationStates Jolt Archive

I just saw the movie Borat the other night, and I have to say that it was pretty smart. Sure, much of it was mired in juvenile humor (naked wrestling, faux antisemitism, etc.), but I found that it also has many illuminating parts as well.

The first one is the rodeo scene (clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPfI3_xYNp8); sorry about the poor quality). Borat is talking with a local who is dispensing advice about his appearance -- specifically that he looks like a Muslim. "Shave off that mustache, and you won't look so conspicuous," he says with a drawl. When Borat leans in for a European-style kiss on the cheek, the guy freaks out. "I ain't gone kiss you!" He explains that only the "gays" do that. When Borat says that they are jailed in Kazakhstan, the guy says "that's what we're tryin' to get done here."

The second revealing scene (clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc3ASw45uFc); foul language warning) is with some frat boys later in the film. They're the stereotypical macho frat morons, swilling beer and boasting over how little respect they have for women -- and that's before they get drunk. Later on they start griping about how minorities "have all the power" and "go against the mainstream." When Borat asks them if America has slaves, they say no, and that it is "a big shame" that they don't.

These weren't actors, by the way -- they sued the movie studio after the movie premiered.

I think these were very well-done scenes. Cohen is brilliant -- using an apparently ignorant and bigoted foreigner to bring out the latent ignorance and bigotry in others.

So, given this, what do you think about the film? Do these revealing scenes redeem the rest of the movie? Do you think they were what Sacha Baron Cohen was really going after when making the movie? Are these scenes really indicative of the dark side of America's culture?

Yeah it's social commentary but the important part is it's a naked Borat chasing an equally naked hairy fat man through a convention with a rubber fist shaped dildo. That may have been the funniest scene in the movie.

The guy is very clever, he show how real people are so nice.

To preempt the incoming "Hate America" crowd, let me say that during the run of the Ali G Show, Borat did the same stuff in England and France. He got similar responses too.

The movie was the funniest I've ever seen. I'm in a Jewish fraternity (Alpha Epsilon Pi). We all went to see it and were practically rolling on the floor. Best line has to be the one in subtitiles "Let's go back to New York. At least there aren't any Jews there."

To preempt the incoming "Hate America" crowd, let me say that during the run of the Ali G Show, Borat did the same stuff in England and France. He got similar responses too.

The reason he moved to america was mainly that everyone in the UK knew who he was and what he was doing so he needed new victims.

THe reason he moved to america was mainly that everyone in the UK knew who he was and what he was doing so he need new victims.

yeah.

The one downside of this movie is that he now has too much exposure to do something like this again.

To preempt the incoming "Hate America" crowd, let me say that during the run of the Ali G Show, Borat did the same stuff in England and France. He got similar responses too.

Most of his earlier stuff was much more in the vein of Chris Morris - getting celebrities or politicians just to say really stupid things, rather than coaxing out what they may actually believe.

yeah.

The one downside of this movie is that he now has too much exposure to do something like this again.

Don't worry, he'll just come up with a new character and carry on. Don't underestimate the powerful combination of peoples stupidity and desire to be on camera.

thought borat was brilliant -- haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

maybe it's deliberate, or perhaps accidental, but yes, i do believe borat is a social commentary. it was shocking to me to see just how bigoted some people can be -- the upper class dinner with the white preacher who left in disgust when borat's fat black "girlfriend" arrived was very revealing. ditto for all the christians who stepped over borat's sleeping form on their church steps.

best line: "we support your war of terror!" (rodeo crowd cheers)

thought borat was brilliant -- haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

maybe it's deliberate, or perhaps accidental, but yes, i do believe borat is a social commentary. it was shocking to me to see just how bigoted some people can be -- the upper class dinner with the white preacher who left in disgust when borat's fat black "girlfriend" arrived was very revealing. ditto for all the christians who stepped over borat's sleeping form on their church steps.

best line: "we support your war of terror!" (rodeo crowd cheers)

I think it had more to do with the fact that she was obvously a hooker.

best line: "we support your war of terror!" (rodeo crowd cheers)
Personally, I liked "May George Bush drink the blood of every man, woman, and child in Iraq!" *wild cheers*

I think it had more to do with the fact that she was obvously a hooker.

Meh still bad to leave just because of that

did y'all see the TV show episode when Borat got the folks in the bar in Texas to emphatically sing "throw the jew down the well!" with him? It was great. At first, some people were uncomfortable, but then they sung with gusto. Like the OP said, really brings out the side that we don't like to admit we have.

Yeah, this movie was great! I'll definantly pick up a copy when it comes out.

did y'all see the TV show episode when Borat got the folks in the bar in Texas to emphatically sing "throw the jew down the well!" with him? It was great. At first, some people were uncomfortable, but then they sung with gusto. Like the OP said, really brings out the side that we don't like to admit we have.
Oh, yeah, that reminds me:

Borat: "What is the best gun for me to kill a Jew?"

Shop owner: "I'd recommend the nine millimeter."

Doesn't even bat an eye.

did y'all see the TV show episode when Borat got the folks in the bar in Texas to emphatically sing "throw the jew down the well!" with him? It was great. At first, some people were uncomfortable, but then they sung with gusto. Like the OP said, really brings out the side that we don't like to admit we have.

That song is way too catchy. My flatmate is singing it as I type

I love the movie, myself. But to be fair, it doesn't take much work to get racist/sexist idiots to act like racist/sexist idiots - just put them in front of a camera and pretend to be their bestest buddy.

Oh, yeah, that reminds me:

Borat: "What is the best gun for me to kill a Jew?"

Shop owner: "I'd recommend the nine millimeter."

Doesn't even bat an eye.

He did something similar with a self-defence instructer, except it was "what is the best way to defend yourself from a Jew? What if he has his Jew-claw?"

To the guy's credit, he got flustered and tried to explane about how we have religious tolerence and all that shit. Then Borat asked him "How can I stop my wife from do the rape on me?" To which the guy responded "show her more lovin?"


There was another one where he's interviewing for a house in a high-class gated community. He tells the salesman "my wife is afraid of the men with the chocolate faces. They are not here?" to which the man replies "well, if there were, they'd have to be very well off, so they wouldn't act like the other ones"

"Today, I have interview with a genuine chocloate face".

except in the metacontext Borat should not be taken as an accurate social commentary. Staging and selective editing are just a few of the factors that apparently went into the production of an entertainment. Thus the rodeo scene merely means that from some 300 millioon people in the US ( or 6 billion in the world) Cohen was able to find one who could be goading into producing a response he could use.

To produce the "social commentary" portions, Cohen creates situations which require a response, ignores those which do not produce an entertaining response and stops once he gets an entertaining response. So for the frat boys, if Cohen went to 500 frats accross the country and had 2,000 frat boys in a similar situation before he came across 3 who managed to produce entertaining comments the only accurate social commentary that can be made is that out of a large number of frat members some will produce offensive/entertaining statements. If he went to the same number of fraternities and recieved similar response at all of them or even a significant fraction of them then an accurate social commentary could be made.

Social commentary is by its very definition concerned with society and not isolated instances. Now in the megacontext a lot of social commentary can be made, but the movie itself contains no meanigful social commentary. There may be glimmerings there that could provide a basis for research which could provide social commentary ( a study into attitudes of frat boys or rodeo people for example) but the only legitimate social commentary to be drawn from the film is that some people can be made to say entertaining things (hold offensive views?), which is kinda meaningless.

To preempt the incoming "Hate America" crowd, let me say that during the run of the Ali G Show, Borat did the same stuff in England and France. He got similar responses too.

The movie was the funniest I've ever seen. I'm in a Jewish fraternity (Alpha Epsilon Pi). We all went to see it and were practically rolling on the floor. Best line has to be the one in subtitiles "Let's go back to New York. At least there aren't any Jews there."


Yeah almost when he satrted Ali G there where some black people hat didn't get it and thought that his comedy was racist, but really only a tiny tiny minority.

"Today, I have interview with a genuine chocloate face".

Ahhh I just love that nick name of yours, hehe and the fact the it says member underneath is like the icing on the comedy cake!:p

Thank you captain obvious. :rolleyes:

Was his purpose to make a social commentary?

No, just to make a shitload of money. (IMO)

Was his purpose to make a social commentary?

No, just to make a shitload of money. (IMO)


Perhaps or just to make us laugh?

except in the metacontext Borat should not be taken as an accurate social commentary. Staging and selective editing are just a few of the factors that apparently went into the production of an entertainment. Thus the rodeo scene merely means that from some 300 millioon people in the US ( or 6 billion in the world) Cohen was able to find one who could be goading into producing a response he could use.
What it really means is that if you run out in front of a bunch of drunk rednecks, they'll cheer just about any damn thing you say simply because you've got a shiny jacket.

Borat I must for looking. :)

no,

Most of his earlier stuff was much more in the vein of Chris Morris - getting celebrities or politicians just to say really stupid things, rather than coaxing out what they may actually believe.
I far prefer Chris Morris though. Cohen does stretch the limit a bit, but he is very aware that there is a limit there. Morris sees the limit, and thinks to himself 'Why is that there? What happens if I go far beyond it?' - which is perhaps why Cohen gets the international acclaim. That and he seems more ambitious. Oh, if only Brass Eye would come back. It's 'nonce sense'.

I think it was mostly immature toilet humour

I think it was mostly immature toilet humour
Yeah, I liked it too!

I far prefer Chris Morris though. Cohen does stretch the limit a bit, but he is very aware that there is a limit there. Morris sees the limit, and thinks to himself 'Why is that there? What happens if I go far beyond it?' - which is perhaps why Cohen gets the international acclaim. That and he seems more ambitious. Oh, if only Brass Eye would come back. It's 'nonce sense'.


Hehe yeah and remebre kids just say no! to the cake.

Was his purpose to make a social commentary?

No, just to make a shitload of money. (IMO)

Thats the purpose of most movies

Borat was an awesome movie. One of the funniest scenes was the Running of the Jew.

gbah,gnah!

Thats the purpose of most movies
explain?
why it is not a shit load of money?:

What it really means is that if you run out in front of a bunch of drunk rednecks, they'll cheer just about any damn thing you say simply because you've got a shiny jacket.
Interestingly Cohen had to be removed from the rodeo in RL because he started a riot. I am not certain how you drew your conclusion from the scene, sure they cheer at the start but the cheering dies down pretty quick. Perhaps instead it proves that you can slip a couple of oddball statements past a worked up crowd before they get offended? It indicates that a crowd does not assume that a speaker is automatically offensive, which is an intersting peice of group dynamics but not much of a social commentary.

Hehe yeah and remebre kids just say no! to the cake.
Oh, you’ve got bad AIDS.

Borat, although I’ve only seen his UK television special, is pretty damn funny and scathing, but Chris ‘this is the NEWS’ Morris takes the comedy biscuit.