NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people thing that with eternity, anything is certain. i.e. the famous (if you have infinate monkeys on an infinate amount of typewriters typing for an infinate amount of time, the works of shakespear will have to be typed out). Some people state that eventally, due to random sudden outbursts of energy in space which create particles (or something like that), these outburst will eventually creat planets, galexies, another big bang etc.... because of the infinate time complex.

However some people, even professors have started to criticize this idea saying that there is no proof etc...

So what are your thoughts?

I definitely agree that infinite time makes literally anything possible. The sticking point, however, is that time is not infinite, so the issue is kinda moot.

I definitely agree that infinite time makes literally anything possible. The sticking point, however, is that time is not infinite, so the issue is kinda moot.

What makes you say that?

What makes you say that?

Well, our sense of time dates from the Big Bang, which began at a specific time (although the exact time is still unknown and might never be) so time as it exists in our universe is finite. Outside of our universe, there either is no time or it functions in a different way than ours, since time is completely dependent on the physical universe for its existence.

If you have infinite time, infinite supplies, and infinite whatever else, wouldn't it stand to reason that you would also have infinite possibilities?

Pushistymistan;11952275']If you have infinite time, infinite supplies, and infinite whatever else, wouldn't it stand to reason that you would also have infinite possibilities?


Well, yes. However, the amount of everything in the universe is, to our knowledge, finite. So there's a limit to the number of possible events although it is very, very large.

Well, yes. However, the amount of everything in the universe is, to our knowledge, finite. So there's a limit to the number of possible events although it is very, very large.

I've always held that the universe is infinite ; I've yet to be proven wrong. :p

Pushistymistan;11952605']I've always held that the universe is infinite ; I've yet to be proven wrong. :p


Einstein held that only the universe and human stupidity were infinite, and he had doubts on the former.

Pushistymistan;11952605']I've always held that the universe is infinite ; I've yet to be proven wrong. :p


We only know that the visible universe is finite; there's a ton of stuff that we either can't see (thanks to cosmic inflation) or that isn't comprised of ordinary matter. I mean, dark matter and energy are easily 24 times more abundant than all of the other stuff, and we really have know idea what exactly it is or how it works and interacts with visible matter. For all we know, dark matter might end up being a physical manifestation of God or something equally extraordinary.

There's a ton we don't know, and can't know. That's the limitation of our brains and observational capacity and is the reason why it is almost certainly impossible to explain the physical universe, let alone anything beyond that in entirely empirical terms.

What makes you say that?
What makes me say what? That infinite time makes anything possible or that time is not infinite?

For the first, it's just fact. If time went on literally forever, then everything that is possible to happen will happen in every possible permutation. Even if the odds against a particular event are more than a googleplex to one, it will eventually happen given an infinite amount of time.

As for time not being infinite, well, the universe will end eventually. That's been pretty much established, IIRC. Big Crunch, anyone?

I've held for some amount of time that the universe is finite and "round". kind of like the Earth. If you go a certain from Britain a ways, you will eventually be back at Britain. I hold that it is the same way with the universe.

Many people thing that with eternity, anything is certain. i.e. the famous (if you have infinate monkeys on an infinate amount of typewriters typing for an infinate amount of time, the works of shakespear will have to be typed out). Some people state that eventally, due to random sudden outbursts of energy in space which create particles (or something like that), these outburst will eventually creat planets, galexies, another big bang etc.... because of the infinate time complex.

However some people, even professors have started to criticize this idea saying that there is no proof etc...

So what are your thoughts?


Any finite probability reaches 1 when multiplied by an infinite opportunity to occur (eternity).

I definitely agree that infinite time makes literally anything possible. The sticking point, however, is that time is not infinite, so the issue is kinda moot.

My sticking point is that thus far we have not observed anything that is truly random either.
If you could find a phenomenon that was TRULY random you could make billions in the security field for random number generation. All we have so far is psudo random numbers.

If you could find a phenomenon that was TRULY random you could make billions in the security field for random number generation. All we have so far is psudo random numbers.

I've always wondered what effect quantum computing might have on the field of random number generation; after all, it's theorized that quantum mechanics contains a lot of objectively random properties, and so if we were able to harness that power we might be able to get a vastly superior approximation of true randomness, or even objective randomness itself.

I've always wondered what effect quantum computing might have on the field of random number generation; after all, it's theorized that quantum mechanics contains a lot of objectively random properties, and so if we were able to harness that power we might be able to get a vastly superior approximation of true randomness, or even objective randomness itself.

Yeah there are some big white papers on that, I will see if I can find an electronic copy (I only have print form at work)

But the better and more random we can generate a seed for key generation the more secure we can be.

But so far nothing practical has actually been observed ...

Yeah there are some big white papers on that, I will see if I can find an electronic copy (I only have print form at work)

But the better and more random we can generate a seed for key generation the more secure we can be.

I'd be interested in reading them.

But so far nothing practical has actually been observed ...

That's the challenge.

Of course, the good thing about quantum computing is that each additional qubit doubles the computational capacity of the computer, which enables you to obtain exponential processing growth with only a linear increase in the number of qubits. And, of course, that means a lot more processing power in a lot smaller area than conventional processors.

My sticking point is that thus far we have not observed anything that is truly random either.
If you could find a phenomenon that was TRULY random you could make billions in the security field for random number generation. All we have so far is psudo random numbers.
What's randomness got to do with it? :confused:

I'd be interested in reading them.



That's the challenge.

Of course, the good thing about quantum computing is that each additional qubit doubles the computational capacity of the computer, which enables you to obtain exponential processing growth with only a linear increase in the number of qubits. And, of course, that means a lot more processing power in a lot smaller area than conventional processors.

Ok well here is a general over view

http://ece.gmu.edu/courses/Crypto_resources/web_resources/theses/GMU_theses/Kohlbrenner/Kohlbrenner_Fall_2003_slides.pdf

Not Exactly the most in depth one I have access to physically but a lot of these white papers are not wildly published.

But they go through some cool ring occilater technology

What's randomness got to do with it? :confused:

Well, if you had a truly random system it would be impossible to crack because there would be no way of predicting the numbers.

What's randomness got to do with it? :confused:

IF there is no above quantum randomness you cant really have the existence of RANDOM ocurances regardless of how much time you give it

The idea that anything is possible is bassed off of A) Enough time
And RANDOMNESS

IF there is no above quantum randomness you cant really have the existence of RANDOM ocurances regardless of how much time you give it

The idea that anything is possible is bassed off of A) Enough time
And RANDOMNESS
Ah. Well, I'm not an expert on chaos theory, so I can't really address that. Although I thought that quantum randomness could affect the macroscopic world? Something about "Every once in awhile quantum fluctuations allow a single atom to pop through a solid surface, and if you try an infinite number of times, eventually enough of your atoms will randomly pop through so that you could walk through a wall."

Ah. Well, I'm not an expert on chaos theory, so I can't really address that. Although I thought that quantum randomness could affect the macroscopic world? Something about "Every once in awhile quantum fluctuations allow a single atom to pop through a solid surface, and if you try an infinite number of times, eventually enough of your atoms will randomly pop through so that you could walk through a wall."

Theoretically right ... but so far true qantem randomness is ... un proven. Hopefully further ability to observe the reactions can change that. Cause the potential applications could be earth changing