NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:
A lot fo countries, like Spain and Britain have been attacked because of the Iraq war. Their populations are still against it.

Please, learn how to spell.

im 13

Bingo.

If you hadn't admitted your age, we just would have thought you were a 45 year old middle-class white guy, and declared open season.

Now we're just going to ignore you.

It's ageist, I know. Sorry. I just can't be as mean to a 13 year old as I can to a 45 year old.

Markiria, just ignore politics at this stage in life and concentrate on one thing: find something that you are passionate about and is fulfilling -- then do it, and don't stop doing it.

If you hadn't admitted your age, we just would have thought you were a 45 year old middle-class white guy, and declared open season.

Now we're just going to ignore you.

It's ageist, I know. Sorry. I just can't be as mean to a 13 year old as I can to a 45 year old.

Sure you can...he force is strong in you-I can feel it.;)

Markiria, just ignore politics at this stage in life and concentrate on one thing: find something that you are passionate about and is fulfilling -- then do it, and don't stop doing it.

And whatever you do, dont seek approval of the self loathing, screeching majority in here.

You now how lucky you are and dont be ashamed of it.

This aint the group to try to say you're sorry to. They are,shall we say, bad sports.

If you hadn't admitted your age, we just would have thought you were a 45 year old middle-class white guy, and declared open season.

Now we're just going to ignore you.

It's ageist, I know. Sorry. I just can't be as mean to a 13 year old as I can to a 45 year old.

That, and the nigh analphabetism. One could make comments about substandard schooling systems, but when it's presented like this, one just hasn't the heart to be honest.

My opinion is that Europeans talk about it too much.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:


Hatred towards America has little to do with the last 5 years (although that hasn't exactly helped) and a lot to do with the last 60.

Hatred towards America has little to do with the last 5 years (although that hasn't exactly helped) and a lot to do with the last 60.

*gets out of Excursion, leaving it running, and yells* What the hell are you talking about? We emasculat- emancipulat- freed our slaves! We saved the world from Hitler, Tojo, and the Bolsheviks! I can't believe how ungrateful people are! *slurps on 2-liter cup of cola and belches loudly*

If I had to make a complaint about America, it'd be the way they like to take credit for things done by Britain.

E.g. World War II movies based on true stories - with the British military replaced by the American.

Until needed, most of the world hates the US. But, who is called upon when things really get tough?

Who was called in 1917? 1939?

Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?

The US was.

So, everyone hates us. Everyone has always hated us. Probably, everyone will always hate us.

Until they need us.

*gets out of Excursion, leaving it running, and yells* What the hell are you talking about? We emasculat- emancipulat- freed our slaves! We saved the world from Hitler, Tojo, and the Bolsheviks! I can't believe how ungrateful people are! *slurps on 2-liter cup of cola and belches loudly*



Yes, and that all happened over 60 years ago.

Except for the collapse of communism of course, but then the US was a merely an important factor in the circumstances that brought that about - not the principle cause, whatever Reagan fans may like to believe.

It's the cynical, aggressive foreign policy that has won you few friends around the globe since WW2

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!! [upyours removed]

Why do you support the war in Iraq? There was no connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda, there were no weapons of mass destruction, I'm not sure Saddam had changed his rhetoric recently before we went in. Oh, sure, he was jerking the UN inspectors around but no one got annoyed by that before. Even the Bush Administration admits the al-Qaeda, WMD points, by the way. All they have left is "he was ebil." He was but was taking him out worth the lives of 3,000 Americans? You're 13. You'll see this differently in time.

I heard the other day that Bush does have a withdrawal plan, the troops in Iraq will be coming home via Iran.

Who was called in 1917? 1939?In 1939? America wasn't fighting at that time;)

Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?Yeah... sure...

So, everyone hates us. Everyone has always hated us. Probably, everyone will always hate us.If all Americans are like this, I see little reason not too.

Until needed, most of the world hates the US. But, who is called upon when things really get tough?

Who was called in 1917? 1939?




1939? I don't think so - you were two years late for that one.



Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?

The US was.




Milosevic was going to take over the world? Hmmm

Who was called in 1917?

Not us. We butted in when peace was being discussed. I guess you wouldnt know that since Americans only learn WWI was 1917-1919.

The war was winding down by the time Lusitania was sunk. Why did we go in? To prove we deserved to be a world power.

1939?

We started helping in return for islands and money. We did not enter until '41, when provoked.

1939? I don't think so - you were two years late for that one.

Milosevic was going to take over the world? Hmmm

I found it oh, so funny, the ignorance of the defence, the cluelessness. Hilarious.

Until needed, most of the world hates the US. But, who is called upon when things really get tough?

Who was called in 1917? 1939?
I think you mean "who turned up late to both world wars?" - the US wasnt in number 2 until 1941, by the way.

Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?
Taken over the world? Since when were Serbia and Yugoslavia world powers? Typical American geography...

The US was.

So, everyone hates us. Everyone has always hated us. Probably, everyone will always hate us.

Until they need us.
Yeah, like the Iraqis needed you to go into their country and kill loads of them. They really needed that. :rolleyes:

I am an American, so the following post is merely my rather limited take on our perception around the world, so if any non-Americans out there want to correct me, feel free.

The past 6 years have basically totally sabatoged our image abroad. The majority of Europe either dislikes or mistrusts us, although some of the smaller (and non-EU) countries might still have some vesitge of respect for the US.

The Middle East obviously is divided between hating us, loathing us, and being scared shitless of us.

Across north and central asia, we still have a relatively good image, I think. Minus North Korea, China, and probably Uzbekistan and a few others. In India, I think we still have a relatively good reputation amongst the non-Muslim population. Pakistan supports us, mostly out of fear.

Africa, I imagine, is probably more divided according to country. Countries that get aid from us support us; those that don't, don't. Rwanda and Sudan hate us, and the North African states probably view us with uneasiness.

Hatred towards America has little to do with the last 5 years (although that hasn't exactly helped) and a lot to do with the last 60.

Yep. We should have let the Soviets take Western Europe as well. You guys will never forgive us for keeping you from going communist.

Hatred towards America has little to do with the last 5 years (although that hasn't exactly helped) and a lot to do with the last 60.

Interesting, how you included WWII in your post. So, are you dissatisfied with our involvement in WWII, and our involving with the Cold War and Russia, and the Berlin Wall. What atrocities we did.

In 1939? America wasn't fighting at that time;)

Tell it to the US destroyer crews who escorted British convoys pre-7 Dec 1941.

While you're at it, tell it to the British who were screaming for our help.

If all Americans are like this, I see little reason not too.

Not concerned.

In geo-politics, when others want US help, they'll be all smarmy and come bearing hat in hand, protesting that they have always loved the United States.

Milosevic was going to take over the world? Hmmm

Sarcasm...

Although, why was our help needed for an entirely internal European affair?

I think you mean "who turned up late to both world wars?" - the US wasnt in number 2 until 1941, by the way.

The one who won both world wars...

Taken over the world? Since when were Serbia and Yugoslavia world powers? Typical American geography...

Brits can't handle sarcasm?

Interesting...

Yeah, like the Iraqis needed you to go into their country and kill loads of them. They really needed that. :rolleyes:

Then, Hussein shouldn't've violated the ceasefire. Be a lot fewer dead Iraqis that way.

Well, other than those Hussein killed...

Yep. We should have let the Soviets take Western Europe as well. You guys will never forgive us for keeping you from going communist.

Of course Western Europe is grateful for that, it was not suggested that they were not.

Tell it to the US destroyer crews who escorted British convoys pre-7 Dec 1941.

While you're at it, tell it to the British who were screaming for our help.



Not concerned.

In geo-politics, when others want US help, they'll be all smarmy and come bearing hat in hand, protesting that they have always loved the United States.

"Smarmy" is the perfect word.

Although, many were happy to present themselves and accept the Nazis-put on shows for them, do their laundry,shine their boots.

Maybe they'd have flourished under the Soviets too.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

Im only 15, so i can be as mean to this guy as i can to a 45 year old ;)
Ok, its generally people like you that cause so much hate against america, yes, we blame your government, but unlike N.korea, you're a democracy, and because you have a 2-party system it means that at least 50% of americans have voted for the government we hate....

And britain has a 7/7, not as big as 9/11 but we didnt need to start a war... and there was the bombing in madrid a few years ago, and the IRA bombing london... oh, people usually neglect to mention some IRA activity was funded by americans....

Until needed, most of the world hates the US. But, who is called upon when things really get tough?

Who was called in 1917? 1939?

Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?

The US was.

So, everyone hates us. Everyone has always hated us. Probably, everyone will always hate us.

Until they need us.

Er yeah, who did we call in 1939? america, and guess who said no?
Guess who it was that only intervened because they got bombed first? and dont say poland...

And yeah, you dont seem to be going the right way about stopping all this hate

Why do you support the war in Iraq? There was no connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda, there were no weapons of mass destruction, I'm not sure Saddam had changed his rhetoric recently before we went in. Oh, sure, he was jerking the UN inspectors around but no one got annoyed by that before. Even the Bush Administration admits the al-Qaeda, WMD points, by the way. All they have left is "he was ebil." He was but was taking him out worth the lives of 3,000 Americans? You're 13. You'll see this differently in time.

I heard the other day that Bush does have a withdrawal plan, the troops in Iraq will be coming home via Iran.

Yeah, and the way things are in iraq destroys all "we went in to stop human rights abuses" chances
And the "he was evil" point is an opinion, he only got convicted because we said so, he didnt get a fair trial....
Oh, but those 3,000 americans dead, terrible, it doesnt matter that between 200,000 and 650,000 iraqis have died since, its the american lives that are important

In 1939? America wasn't fighting at that time;)

Yeah... sure...

If all Americans are like this, I see little reason not too.

Yeah, america seemed to be a bit too busy doing nothing about then, and ignorant guys like this (who even go out of their way to include bad grammer) who post "anti-everyone-who-isnt-american" stuff like this seems to support anti-americans' points...

Having said that most americans i've spoken to have been quite nice, although i dont doubt 90% of them voted democrat

Interesting, how you included WWII in your post. So, are you dissatisfied with our involvement in WWII, and our involving with the Cold War and Russia, and the Berlin Wall. What atrocities we did.

You seem to be making rather a lot of assumptions based on very little.

Tell it to the US destroyer crews who escorted British convoys pre-7 Dec 1941.Did you fought at that time?

While you're at it, tell it to the British who were screaming for our help.And got your help, but not in 1939.

The one who won both world wars...Britain, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India etc..?

As an American, I love my country, I respect the authority figures and our government. I am ashamed of some of the events that has occurred in our history. I will NOT live in the past. I'm moving my life forward and I will NOT dread on the happenings of the past. Practically every nation in this world has some type of shameful acts in their history.

History also tells us when you are the biggest and most powerful to expect a substancial amount of scrutiny and expect criticism.

In WW2 the US sold us weapons. I think we're still paying the interest on that. Thanks guys!

Yes they came in AFTER we'd won the battle of britain and were decisive in retaking Europe from the West but no they did not charge in on a shining white horse and win the war single-handed while we sat and drank tea on the verandah.

I think some European people may look on American as a kind of adolescent. It's still getting used to its status as a superpower, so mistakes obviously will be made and it will have to console them later.

Personally, I am grateful for America's involvement with Britain for the most part, huge amounts of help during the world wars, we couldn't have done it without them, but I resent some of the unnecessary praise they take as someone above has mentioned. Other than that, America has the largest amount of scientific innovations, but equally it is held back by its religious views in some areas. And I've never been fond of the accent.

I think some European people may look on American as a kind of adolescent. It's still getting used to its status as a superpower, so mistakes obviously will be made and it will have to console them later.

Personally, I am grateful for America's involvement with Britain for the most part, huge amounts of help during the world wars, we couldn't have done it without them, but I resent some of the unnecessary praise they take as someone above has mentioned. Other than that, America has the largest amount of scientific innovations, but equally it is held back by its religious views in some areas. And I've never been fond of the accent.

Which accent? You know, we're a big country and we've got more than one.

What are you doing on a political forum, you should be outside being a menice. Run along and play with your toys now.

And I've never been fond of the accent.

Duuude... Not excellent...

In WW2 the US sold us weapons. I think we're still paying the interest on that. Thanks guys!

Yes they came in AFTER we'd won the battle of britain and were decisive in retaking Europe from the West but no they did not charge in on a shining white horse and win the war single-handed while we sat and drank tea on the verandah.

Who said anything about us charging "in on a shining white horse and win the war single-handed..." I heard people saying we helped not winning by ourselves. I personally think Russia fought the hardest to force back the nazi's compared with anybody else. This was WWII, we all won as allies. Nobody has any right to claim that win by themselves. We won because of the people who were part of the Allies.

Personally, I don't my the American accent that much. There are both more and less pleasant sounding ones in England. The American words, however, I am not so keen on. Except "dude". I like that one.

OK, I am an American and very grateful to be one. As far as I know, there is much hate towards my country. Why many people have such strong feelings about us I understand, but when people say "I want Americans to die" or whatever, are you talking about the people? I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you; you can't think that all Americans are like Bush, just like you can't say that all people from North Korea are like their obese leader. Come on! Everyone knows Americans work their butts off. It's the government they hate. They are only carrying out a small radical agenda.

I wanted to know the general view on us (Americans, or, for you freaks, "USians"), and also whether the Democratic takeover of the Senate and House (and maybe a Democratic president in '08) will change the worldview on "evil America" like many say now.

Also, would your view on the Iraq War change if terrorists conducted a 9/11-style on your country? I support the war and I'm thirteen, but how it's being fought is a whole 'nother story... thanks a lot, former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld!

Sorry, but that just had to be fixed. It was raping my eyes.

Personally, I don't my the American accent that much. There are both more and less pleasant sounding ones in England. The American words, however, I am not so keen on. Except "dude". I like that one.

Dude! :D

Duuude... Not excellent...

My teacher today in RS (religious studies) was doing a drugs awareness lesson, you could tell she was american by her accent, and apart from being a bitch the one thing i took from that lesson was "one of my freinds said 'Crack is like nothing you've ever felt before, its amazing'" :D

I think the american accent is ok, but i'd get annoyed with it after a while

Who said anything about us charging "in on a shining white horse and win the war single-handed..." I heard people saying we helped not winning by ourselves. I personally think Russia fought the hardest to force back the nazi's compared with anybody else. This was WWII, we all won as allies. Nobody has any right to claim that win by themselves. We won because of the people who were part of the Allies.

And yet no-one remembers the millions of russian PoWs killed, even though it came close, or even beat the number of jews killed, and now everyone thinks of russia then as evil commie b***ards:( poor russia...

Nice of the Americans to prevent me from defending them. I was coming into this thread to say they're not as bad as people make out, and then they go and give all the "we won all your wars! you suck! how dare you not treat us as superiors!"

Nice of the Americans to prevent me from defending them. I was coming into this thread to say they're not as bad as people make out, and then they go and give all the "we won all your wars! you suck! how dare you not treat us as superiors!"

No need to thank us, we Americans always try to be considerate and think for other peoples. :p

Markiria, just ignore politics at this stage in life and concentrate on one thing: find something that you are passionate about and is fulfilling -- then do it, and don't stop doing it.
This is the best post of the thread.

And whatever you do, dont seek approval of the self loathing, screeching majority in here.
This is the worst.

I don't think we have many self-loathers here. If anything we have a lot of colliding egos!

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

This whole "everybody hates America" thing is way overblown. Sure, there are a lot of disagreement with the policies of the government and such, but the levels of actual hate directed towards America and the american people is not that high.

You generalize too much, without backing up your statements. Why do you think so many people hate the US? Is believing that the US is the biggest threat to world peace the same as hating? What do you mean by "hate"? Please define your terms better.

The world view of the US will improve if their actions improve. The US foreign policy is currently one in which unilateralism is a major factor. No surprise that the world at large doesn't like not being included, not being consulted and generally ignored. It's gotten better lately though.

Also, pointing out that the streets of the shining city on the hill are overflowing with garbage is not "hating America". (I hope you take my metaphor)

And lastly, Saddam didn't have anything to do with Sept. 11th, so no, I'm still against the war.

Then, Hussein shouldn't've violated the ceasefire. Be a lot fewer dead Iraqis that way.

Well, other than those Hussein killed...

The "violated the ceasefire"-arguement isn't even being used by the government anymore.

The war was a breach of international law as far as I can see, and the war would have been fought irregardless of any violation - it had been decided by the Decider upon high long before they took the case to the UN.

Which accent? You know, we're a big country and we've got more than one.

Anything with particularly strong American vowel sounds. Mild American accents are fine, but then again that applies to British accents as well, I'm not fond of, say, the Mancunian or Liverpool accents. I also find annoying the way people leave consonants out when pronouncing words, like 'butter'. It has 2 't's in it. The odd word being entirely wrong, like 'premiere'. And occasionally missing out important words altogether, like 2006 being said 'two-thousand six', which infact means 2000 6, not 2006. But in the end, its just the convention I'm used to being altered slightly, and will most likely get used to it in time.

America is the best country there is. We have more freedoms than anyone. I hate getting attacked by people when I say I am a republican. It is so stupid. Other countries are just jealous of us. I say bring it on. Don't screw with us because we will drop the atomic bomb on you.

Well... this isn't my view, precisely, but I was reading Rob Grant's 'Incompetence' recently, and there's this passage spoken by the protagonist:

"You know why you're not well-liked around the globe? Because you're an island race. You think the world ends just east of Ellis Island. Only one in ten of you even owns a passport, much less uses it. You have national sports that no one else on the planet even plays, then have the barefaced gall to declare yourselves world champions. You have, what: five, sixper cent of the world's population? You consume more than two thirds of its narcotics and put out more than half of its pollution. And you don't care. You couldn't give a hootenanny. You don't engage with the rest of the world, Dick. That's America for you. The Great Masturbator."

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
It's a good read, by the way, very funny.

It seems like everytime I notice that there aren't any threads talking about how bad the US is, one pops up saying to stop bashing Americans.

America is the best country there is.

That's nice, how many do you actually know? How many can you name? How many have you been to?

We have more freedoms than anyone.

I don't suppose you have a full list of all freedoms from each and every country, so we can all make that comparison?

I hate getting attacked by people when I say I am a republican. It is so stupid.

Yes, it is stupid to be attacked simply for your political affiliation, I quite agree. A shame it's a problem on all sides.

Other countries are just jealous of us.

Some are, I don't doubt, others are likely contemptuous, others disgusted, or insulted, or approving, or apathetic.

I say bring it on. Don't screw with us because we will drop the atomic bomb on you.

So, not familiar with the concept of mutual assured destruction (MAD), then? Don't forget, you're not the only country with such weapons.

Markiria, just ignore politics at this stage in life and concentrate on one thing: find something that you are passionate about and is fulfilling -- then do it, and don't stop doing it.

And what if that turns out to be foreign affairs or political science? ;3

Seriously, knowing about the inner mechanisms of your country (and the world as a whole) is a good thing to get into early ; it saves you the embarrassment of learning it later.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

You know, it might be a bit difficult to read what kids write sometimes (I had a hard time reading bits of that), but they come up with some of the most sensible statements. Good on ya.

This whole "everybody hates America" thing is way overblown. Sure, there are a lot of disagreement with the policies of the government and such, but the levels of actual hate directed towards America and the american people is not that high.

You generalize too much, without backing up your statements. Why do you think so many people hate the US? Is believing that the US is the biggest threat to world peace the same as hating? What do you mean by "hate"? Please define your terms better.

I don't know about the OP or anybody else, but I do have to say I have experienced anti-Americanism personally. Now, it may have just been an isloated incident where I happened to be unlucky, but I travel. A lot. And I was passing through Paris on my way to visit my cousins in Denmark. Now, the thing is, the French people there assumed that I didn't understand them. Many of them said... well, things that I shouldn't repeat on this forum... about me. Just because I am an American. (I'm assuming they picked up on my accent or something.) I even had a few switch to English and say it to my face. My favorite line out of these was "All Americans go to hell. Just leave France; we don't want you here!"
Then, in Denmark, I got a lot of comments, "Wow, you're not a normal American. You're actually a decent person." Now, they weren't insulting me here, but they were implying that Americans are scum until proven otherwise. How is that not anti-american hate?


Also, I also don't like the whole idea "America didn't help at all in WWII! I wish they'd never have joined in the fight!" that people seem to spout recently. It seems, to me, to be a reaction to the "We won WWII for ya! Woooo!" Still, though. It's not true. America did contribute a rather lot, and there is no denying that. Just as the Soviets, the British, and the French contributed a lot. And take any one of the allies out, and it's not a good thing. Sure, the Soviets probably could have eventually won, but they would have lost many more lives and then put much more of Europe under their totalitarian style of communism. So can we all agree that all the allies helped?

i don't hate america or the vast majority of americans. i do think the US government need to be decimated (x10), and all the corporate sponsors that support them, and all the professional lobbyists who'll barely care what they're promoting as long as they get their fat pay cheques.

Pushistymistan;11952661']And what if that turns out to be foreign affairs or political science? ;3

Seriously, knowing about the inner mechanisms of your country (and the world as a whole) is a good thing to get into early ; it saves you the embarrassment of learning it later.


Yes, it is good to start early, but not at 13. Discovering yourself and coming to terms with your hormones is top priority at that age. In addition, you won't be taken seriously by powerhungry adults until you reach your age of majority anyway.

Yes, it is good to start early, but not at 13. Discovering yourself and coming to terms with your hormones is top priority at that age. In addition, you won't be taken seriously by powerhungry adults until you reach your age of majority anyway.

I didn't say you needed to be taken seriously ; just that learning how it all works is a good idea.

Then again, I'm biased, since that's what I did.

By the way, adults aren't "powerhungry" ; imagine what would happen if we let everyone vote (or rather, what could happen). That's why there's an age limit, not because there's some elite clique that you join when you turn eighteen.

I hate America just because you are so damned insecure. I didn't even know that before I started in NSG. It annoys me immensely that you have to constantly ask us if we like you. WE DON'T! We stopped liking you last July! Stop bothering us!

Pushistymistan;11952769']I didn't say you needed to be taken seriously ; just that learning how it all works is a good idea.

Then again, I'm biased, since that's what I did.

By the way, adults aren't "powerhungry" ; imagine what would happen if we let everyone vote (or rather, what could happen). That's why there's an age limit, not because there's some elite clique that you join when you turn eighteen.


All people, not just adults are powerhungry. To strive for power is a natural human quality, because social interactions between people always involve manipulation. The people who stand for "non-manipulation" and such are just playing the power game differently.

Hello all,

Be gentle this is my first posting,

America is a country which does contain some intellegent people, however, the lot who run the bloody place are a bunch of bible nuts, coke addicts and plain old wankers, and thats not just the government, since any government is in theory mandated by the people who vote for it, any one who votes republican is also all of the aformentioned things.

Also, dont you consider it ironic that a president who believes a magic man made the world looks like a bloody monkey

Cheers all

Delphita (Im british btw, tell your gov to stop fucking about with mine, we can fuck things up just fine without american help lol)

:sniper:

I hate America just because you are so damned insecure. I didn't even know that before I started in NSG. It annoys me immensely that you have to constantly ask us if we like you. WE DON'T! We stopped liking you last July! Stop bothering us!

As if!.

Well at least your first post fits right in with about half of nationstates, although I can't find anything else remotely positive to say about it. Now excuse me while I go snort some coke.

Well... this isn't my view, precisely, but I was reading Rob Grant's 'Incompetence' recently, and there's this passage spoken by the protagonist:

"You know why you're not well-liked around the globe? Because you're an island race. You think the world ends just east of Ellis Island. Only one in ten of you even owns a passport, much less uses it. You have national sports that no one else on the planet even plays, then have the barefaced gall to declare yourselves world champions. You have, what: five, sixper cent of the world's population? You consume more than two thirds of its narcotics and put out more than half of its pollution. And you don't care. You couldn't give a hootenanny. You don't engage with the rest of the world, Dick. That's America for you. The Great Masturbator."

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
It's a good read, by the way, very funny.
Ok, I don't normally defend America in these types of threads, but I have to take exception to a few things in that quote. First the thing on the passports, yes most Americans don't have passports, but thats because they don't have much need for them, this isn't Europe you can't just drive for a few hours a get to another country here. Heck even if you go to Canada you might not even need a passport I know they never checked for them in the few times I've driven up there, might need it for Mexico. As for a trip to Europe that can quite frankly be a rather expensive proposition, and even if one can do it cheap its still a fairly long trip, I can remember the time I went cost a fair bit eve with a fairly substantial group discount. And honestly there are plenty of tourist destinations and diferent places to visit with out even the country to keep one busy for a good while.
As for the World Series bit, quite frankly if we're the only ones on the planet that play the game that would mean that it would be a world series since it involves everyone that plays the game, and if your talking about baseball which does have other countries that play it the name comes from before anyone else played it and is traditional.

Other then that not much I would disagree with.

All people, not just adults are powerhungry. To strive for power is a natural human quality, because social interactions between people always involve manipulation. The people who stand for "non-manipulation" and such are just playing the power game differently.

Odd.

I like a lack thereof.

Honestly, people tell me all the time that "oh, you'd make such a great leader, etc. etc. etc." but I really, really hate it.

Perhaps if the world was more intelligent and I was a little less cynical about people I've never met (spot the irony), then I would be interested in a position of power. As it stands, however, I'd just as soon avoid it all, thankyouverymuch.

Well, you all have your right to your opinions. For the ones who don't like us, Americans, oh well. I won't be losing no sleep over it.

I love my country and will continue to love her until the day I die.

I do understand that a lot are filled with hate but that comes from within first. Then they try to spread it through the vocals.

Thank you God for making America my Home Sweet Home.

If the world wants to hate me for loving my country then Hate on, brother.

Pushistymistan;11952902']Odd.

I like a lack thereof.

Honestly, people tell me all the time that "oh, you'd make such a great leader, etc. etc. etc." but I really, really hate it.

Perhaps if the world was more intelligent and I was a little less cynical about people I've never met (spot the irony), then I would be interested in a position of power. As it stands, however, I'd just as soon avoid it all, thankyouverymuch.


Whether you consciously acknowledge it or not, the want of power is in all of us.

Whether you consciously acknowledge it or not, the want of power is in all of us.

Whatever you say, Hoss. ;p

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.
The Germans are hard working people, the Chinese are hard working people.

Not America.

And I doubt the obeseity of the NK's leader, not compered to (what is it now, 50%, 80%?) of obese Americans.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.
I think that, America is an overzealotize group of arrogent people who have no idea that they will be their own undoing.

The democratics will remove the Troops from Iraq; A few years later, another 9/11 will occur, just as the events that lead up to the first 9/11 occured, namily:
Cold war--->USSR makes friends with the Afgan people-----> the USA crushes the Afgan government inorder to force the USSR to withdraw----> government changes hands and afganisshan is left to rot---->tailban warlords gain power--->the afgans plot aganist the USA----> 9/11----->iraq----?withdrawal--->terrorists

You know, the circle of life.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:
I highly doubt that terrorists would waste their time attacking us, not that we go around pissing people off in the first place....

I suggest to try to learn (about the reasons behind iraq) before forming support for something to seeming don't understand in the least. To many people make uninformed opinions on topics they are completely unsure of.

Pushistymistan;11953015']Whatever you say, Hoss. ;p


Hoss? :confused:

I think that, America is an overzealotize group of arrogent people who have no idea that they will be their own undoing.
That won't stop us from throwing the biggest going-out party of all time!

http://www.esturdevant.com/blog/strangelove.jpg

To many people make uninformed opinions on topics they are completely unsure of.
Too many people don't form opinions at all.

The Germans are hard working people, the Chinese are hard working people.

Not America.



Actualy, if you go by vacation times Americans are harder working then Germans, at the very least they work longer, but then the Germans are probably just more efficent;)

Meh, people will always hate their rulers. America rules the world. Thus, people hate America. Honestly, most of the citizens of the world would rather America be our Imperial Overlords than almost anyone else, but that doesn't rob us of our right to impotently kick out at the authority that runs our lives.

i always get a kick out of these arguments

Well, you all have your right to your opinions. For the ones who don't like us, Americans, oh well. I won't be losing no sleep over it.
The funny thing is; you will lose sleep over it. It's so strange.

i know i am going to get some vicious combacks on this one, as i am a biased freak you europeans are just jealous of our american power;)

find something that you are passionate about and is fulfilling -- then do it, and don't stop doing it.

And yet, when I do that, the bus driver keeps screaming that masturbation is a filthy thing.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

Iraq had nothing at all to do with the attack upon America on September 11th 2001.
Even pResident Bush has admitted as much.


Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?

NATO?

And Milosevic, as evil a bastard as he was, was hardly a threat to the entire world.

Sarcasm...

Although, why was our help needed for an entirely internal European affair?

Both World Wars? Good question. Can't you Euorpeans ever fight your own battles without dragging the rest of the world in to it? Or would that be too much to ask?

And I doubt the obeseity of the NK's leader, not compered to (what is it now, 50%, 80%?) of obese Americans.

Those numbers are such bullshit, and everyone fucking knows it. By current obesity standards, Michael Jordan is overweight, as is Tom Cruise.

And yet, when I do that, the bus driver keeps screaming that masturbation is a filthy thing.

You won't go blind following your dream, but believe me, you don't want to do this all the time. You'll the passion that comes from the new experience and you'll get tired of practicing, and want to try the real thing.

Why do you support the war in Iraq?

I can only speak for myself, but I support it because Hussein violated the terms of the ceasefire he signed. So, hostilities resumed.

There was no connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda,

There were, but it's irrelevant. Whether or not there were Iraqi ties to al Qaeda does not negate the fact that Hussein violated the ceasefire.

there were no weapons of mass destruction,

That have been found.

Oh, except for the 500 chemical weapons found in one stash.

Oh, sure, he was jerking the UN inspectors around but no one got annoyed by that before.

Nah. Heck, the UN sanctions on Iraq were just for funsies...

I heard the other day that Bush does have a withdrawal plan, the troops in Iraq will be coming home via Iran.

The only valid withdrawal plan is to do so when the goals are accomplished.

And britain has a 7/7, not as big as 9/11 but we didnt need to start a war...

Little bit of history for you - Hussein started the war when he invaded and occupied Kuwait.

We finished it after 12 years of pussy-footing around while Hussein violated the ceasefire he signed.

oh, people usually neglect to mention some IRA activity was funded by americans....

This was official US policy? I was unaware of that.

Er yeah, who did we call in 1939? america, and guess who said no?
Guess who it was that only intervened because they got bombed first? and dont say poland...

Then, please explain the destroyer escorts provided to British convoys prior to 7 Dec 41.

And yeah, you dont seem to be going the right way about stopping all this hate

Irrelevant.

The one who won both world wars...


There were four country's who won the 2nd world war - Britain, France, Russia and America. To ignore the lives lost in other country's and declare world war two as an American victory is very ignorant.

As for World War One, America only fought for a year and only fought against Germany and mostly ignored Austria Hungary. Also, the Germans would have won had it not been for food shortages and Spanish flu hitting the German forces, adding to the arrival of the American forces to the Allies.

Little bit of history for you - Hussein started the war when he invaded and occupied Kuwait.

We finished it after 12 years of pussy-footing around while Hussein violated the ceasefire he signed.


I didn't know the Iraq war lasted all that time between the Gulf war and the Iraq War. I think you may be mistaken there.
Also, I didn't know that the knew "official" reason for the Iraq war was still something that occured 12 years earlier and had nothing to do with any of the false reasons put forward by Bush and Blair.

I can only speak for myself, but I support it because Hussein violated the terms of the ceasefire he signed. So, hostilities resumed..

Which terms did he violate?

There were, but it's irrelevant. Whether or not there were Iraqi ties to al Qaeda does not negate the fact that Hussein violated the ceasefire..

He never violated any ceasefire. Also, what proof of ties with Al Qaeda do you actually have?


That have been found.

Oh, except for the 500 chemical weapons found in one stash.

Which weapons were they? An Iraq did not have any WMD's at the time of the Iraq War.

Did you fought at that time?

Relevancy?

And got your help, but not in 1939.

Indeed, you are correct. Further research shows that it was Sep 1940 when we provided destroyers to England.

I was off by a year.

Sarcasm...

Although, why was our help needed for an entirely internal European affair?

juz curious wasnt that becuase america was bounded by NATO? i mean if it was truly for the good of the world and the sorry Muslims/Albanians and Bosnians wouldnt dere be a big hoohaa abt Darfur rite now?

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

A terrorist attack has been made on our country, further showing how much damage the illegal Iraq war has caused us.
Also, I think Vietnam is probably even more damaging on your country, especially the American atrocities carried out there through the killing of entire villages and the use of Napalm.

i know i am going to get some vicious combacks on this one, as i am a biased freak you europeans are just jealous of our american power;)

Or are the Americans jealous that Brtain, France and the rest of Europe had empires before they were even dicovered?
Also, why would Britain be jealous of America when we had the largest empire in world history, covering 1/4 of the worlds land?

And Milosevic, as evil a bastard as he was, was hardly a threat to the entire world.

Then, why remove him?

There were four country's who won the 2nd world war - Britain, France, Russia and America.

lol....France? They were giving footrubs to SS colonels the day after Germany glanced at them.

i know i am going to get some vicious combacks on this one, as i am a biased freak you europeans are just jealous of our american power;)

i think most ppl want america to leave them alone...

lol....France? They were giving footrubs to SS colonels the day after Germany glanced at them.

No country on earth could have withstood the blitzkrig that Hitler launched upon France. Also, regardless of your views upon France, Britain and Russia's importance in the war is unquestionable.

Then, why remove him?

Because he was committing genocide. He never even attacked another country, Kosovo was and still is Serbian.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.
Citizens of a republic are responsible (at least, morally) for the government and the parliament they elected. Citizenship places moral obligations on citizen - the main is politics. Citizens should care for politics, and, looking at the usual US poll turnouts, US citizens care too little about who's representing them in the world.


I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

Not my view. It will change if the US foreign policies will change. Giving up the US security council permanent membership would be a good idea. Also quitting playing world police without any previous UN request. Or lifting the embargo against Cuba - what about free trade?


And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:
No.
Most of 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi prince.
Did the US attack Saudi Arabia, or force SA to become a democracy?
No.
War against Iraq has been totally useless in the "War against terror" thing. Saddam is a criminal, but he's never been a fundamentalist muslim, and he's never supported Al-Qaida and Bin Laden - who, by the way, has been funded by the US throughout the '80s to fight against CCCP in Afghanistan.

There were four country's who won the 2nd world war - Britain, France, Russia and America.

Britain had been contained by the Germans to the home islands. I believe you were unimagineably lucky to have had the German bombs hit Coventry, then to retaliate by hitting Berlin. It caused Hitler to stop attacking military targets and start on civilian; far less valuable targets.

So, the RAF was given a breather and Operation See Lowe had to be called off.

But, it would've been only a matter of time - had the US not intervened - before Germany would've taken Britain down, either via a German dominated peace or conquest.

France, if you recall, had already surrendered to Germany. Fat lot of good they were.

Russia was also lucky through German blunders. And, a two front war. Had Hitler only the Eastern Front to contend with, with a powerful Japan starting a second front on Russia's East, Russia would not have withstood.

And, much of Russia's survival depended upon US Lend Lease. The US kept the Allies alive. And, we didn't have to. We were safe from Germany. There's no way Germany could've logistically supported any sort of invasion force to the US. Look how long the D-Day invasion had to prepare with an allied nation to stage from and only the Channel in the way. Where would Germany have staged an invasion from? Cherbourg? Dunkerque? Across 3,000 miles of ocean? With our land-based aircraft to defend the coast along with a respectable naval presence?

Never happen.

To ignore the lives lost in other country's and declare world war two as an American victory is very ignorant.

I do not ignore any lost lives. However, had the US not joined in, had we stuck to fighting Japan - the ones who attacked us, but were put on the back-burner until Hitler was taken care of - do you honestly think that the Swastika would not be flying, at least, from Poland to the Channel; from the Baltic to North Africa?

Honestly?

As for World War One, America only fought for a year and only fought against Germany and mostly ignored Austria Hungary. Also, the Germans would have won had it not been for food shortages and Spanish flu hitting the German forces, adding to the arrival of the American forces to the Allies.

We may not have been there long, but we were instrumental, if not decisive, to Germany's defeat. Had we not shown up, I suspect the extant stalemate would've led to a ceasefire, followed by a nasty dust-up maybe a decade later That Germany, I believe, would've won.

As an aside, how much of World War I was fought on German soil?

To get back to the gist of the first question...I'm American, and I'm disgusted at my country's assigned role as world policeman. We spend our treasure and young men's lives to almost ZERO gratitude from the world.

I say almost zero because I'm sure the European countries were briefly grateful when we ejected the Nazis and rebuilt their countries with the Marshall Plan, and then protected them from Russia for forty years. And I'm sure the Kuwaitis and Saudis and the emirates were glad when we ejected Saddam from Kuwait. And I'm sure a number of UN countries sick of Saddam laughing at 19 UN resolutions were glad when the US saved the UN from total irrelevance by taking Saddam out. And the Kurds are certainly enjoying the first democratic freedom they have ever had. Oh and South Korea seems to be grateful they are not South Vietnam. And many of the Pacific Rim countries seemed to be glad for awhile when we tossed Imperial Japan out of their countries. And Taiwan and Japan and China's neighbors seem to be fleetingly grateful the US is there to stop China's communism from rolling across the region. And the old parts of Russia seem to be enjoying their new freedoms since we stood up to the Kremlin for 40 years until it sunk under the weight of it's communist farce of a government system.

Never mind whenever there is a famine or genocide everyone blames the US for not turning the sh1thole region into Santa Monica within a week.

So, I say next time some aggressor country take over its neighbor and starts slaughtering thousands, we let France send their young men to clean it up.

We'll pull our boys out from all over the world and work on missile defenses. The next time some psycho ignores UN resolutions about WMDs and ballistic missile development, let the threat of the Venezuelan Navy and Air Force bring him to reason.

"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." -- Colin Powell at Normandy

I didn't know the Iraq war lasted all that time between the Gulf war and the Iraq War.

They are one and the same war.

There was a ceasefire in 1991, not a peace treaty. That's why the UN sanctioned Iraq, for not living up to the terms of the ceasefire.

I think you may be mistaken there.

Nope.

Also, I didn't know that the knew "official" reason for the Iraq war was still something that occured 12 years earlier and had nothing to do with any of the false reasons put forward by Bush and Blair.

Then, pay attention more.

Which terms did he violate?

The terms that caused the UN to slap sanctions on Iraq.

For two, he failed to turn over his WMDs or proof of their destruction and he locked on to Coalition aircraft with his AA batteries.

He never violated any ceasefire.

Aside from the two examples I've given you, why else did the UN place sanctions on Iraq?

Also, what proof of ties with Al Qaeda do you actually have?

A short list;

==================
Newsweek, January 11, 1999 issue headed Saddam + Bin Laden?;

"Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas--assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. U.S. sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa last summer."
==================
==================
ABC News, January 15, 1999, reported that three intelligence agencies believed that Saddam had offered asylum to bin Laden;

"Intelligence sources say bin Laden's long relationship with the Iraqis began as he helped Sudan's fundamentalist government in their efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction. . . . ABC News has learned that in December, an Iraqi intelligence chief named Faruq Hijazi, now Iraq's ambassador to Turkey, made a secret trip to Afghanistan to meet with bin Laden.
Three intelligence agencies tell ABC News they cannot be certain what was discussed, but almost certainly, they say, bin Laden has been told he would be welcome in Baghdad."
==================
==================
NPR reporter Mike Shuster interviewed Vincent Cannistraro, former head of the CIA's counterterrorism center, and offered this report.

"Iraq's contacts with bin Laden go back some years, to at least 1994, when, according to one U.S. government source, Hijazi met him when bin Laden lived in Sudan. According to Cannistraro, Iraq invited bin Laden to live in Baghdad to be nearer to potential targets of terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. . . . Some experts believe bin Laden might be tempted to live in Iraq because of his reported desire to obtain chemical or biological weapons. CIA Director George Tenet referred to that in recent testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee when he said bin Laden was planning additional attacks on American targets."
==================
==================
Mid-February 1999, an Associated Press report in the Washington Post ended;

"The Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against Western powers."
==================
==================
In the spring of 1998, the Clinton administration indicted Osama bin Laden. It read;

"Al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq."
==================

[Which weapons were they? An Iraq did not have any WMD's at the time of the Iraq War.[/QUOTE]

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.
-- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.

The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
-- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213

Britain had been contained by the Germans to the home islands. I believe you were unimagineably lucky to have had the German bombs hit Coventry, then to retaliate by hitting Berlin. It caused Hitler to stop attacking military targets and start on civilian; far less valuable targets.

So, the RAF was given a breather and Operation See Lowe had to be called off.

But, it would've been only a matter of time - had the US not intervened - before Germany would've taken Britain down, either via a German dominated peace or conquest.

France, if you recall, had already surrendered to Germany. Fat lot of good they were.

Russia was also lucky through German blunders. And, a two front war. Had Hitler only the Eastern Front to contend with, with a powerful Japan starting a second front on Russia's East, Russia would not have withstood.

And, much of Russia's survival depended upon US Lend Lease. The US kept the Allies alive. And, we didn't have to. We were safe from Germany. There's no way Germany could've logistically supported any sort of invasion force to the US. Look how long the D-Day invasion had to prepare with an allied nation to stage from and only the Channel in the way. Where would Germany have staged an invasion from? Cherbourg? Dunkerque? Across 3,000 miles of ocean? With our land-based aircraft to defend the coast along with a respectable naval presence?

Never happen.



I do not ignore any lost lives. However, had the US not joined in, had we stuck to fighting Japan - the ones who attacked us, but were put on the back-burner until Hitler was taken care of - do you honestly think that the Swastika would not be flying, at least, from Poland to the Channel; from the Baltic to North Africa?

Honestly?



We may not have been there long, but we were instrumental, if not decisive, to Germany's defeat. Had we not shown up, I suspect the extant stalemate would've led to a ceasefire, followed by a nasty dust-up maybe a decade later That Germany, I believe, would've won.

As an aside, how much of World War I was fought on German soil?

I never did state that America was not important. However, America would have lost had it not been for the joint invasion of France on D-Day with Britain and Canada. Also, Britain defeated Germany at the Battle of Britain, ending any chance of a German invasion. If any of the countries involved had of not joined in the war, Germany would have won.
Russia managed to beat back Germany due to Hitler's errror in attacking Stalingrad and refusing to withdraw from the city once winter set in. After that, Germany was unable to cope. Also you seem to forget that Russia took Berlin at the end of the war.
Also in World War One, had you not joined the war, it would simply have still been a German defeat as they could no longer feed their troops and could no longer afford to still fight the war and it was left for the Wiemar republic in germany to declare peace.
Finally, America is at fault for the unnecessary dropping of the atomic bomb upon Japan, despite the Japanese being practically defeated and expecting an American invasion and seeking peace terms anyway.

Because he was committing genocide.

So was Hussein.

He never even attacked another country, Kosovo was and still is Serbian.

Yet, Hussein did.

Still, Kosovo is, at best, a European problem, not US.

The terms that caused the UN to slap sanctions on Iraq.

For two, he failed to turn over his WMDs or proof of their destruction and he locked on to Coalition aircraft with his AA batteries.



Aside from the two examples I've given you, why else did the UN place sanctions on Iraq?



A short list;

==================
Newsweek, January 11, 1999 issue headed Saddam + Bin Laden?;

"Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas--assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. U.S. sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa last summer."
==================
==================
ABC News, January 15, 1999, reported that three intelligence agencies believed that Saddam had offered asylum to bin Laden;

"Intelligence sources say bin Laden's long relationship with the Iraqis began as he helped Sudan's fundamentalist government in their efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction. . . . ABC News has learned that in December, an Iraqi intelligence chief named Faruq Hijazi, now Iraq's ambassador to Turkey, made a secret trip to Afghanistan to meet with bin Laden.
Three intelligence agencies tell ABC News they cannot be certain what was discussed, but almost certainly, they say, bin Laden has been told he would be welcome in Baghdad."
==================
==================
NPR reporter Mike Shuster interviewed Vincent Cannistraro, former head of the CIA's counterterrorism center, and offered this report.

"Iraq's contacts with bin Laden go back some years, to at least 1994, when, according to one U.S. government source, Hijazi met him when bin Laden lived in Sudan. According to Cannistraro, Iraq invited bin Laden to live in Baghdad to be nearer to potential targets of terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. . . . Some experts believe bin Laden might be tempted to live in Iraq because of his reported desire to obtain chemical or biological weapons. CIA Director George Tenet referred to that in recent testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee when he said bin Laden was planning additional attacks on American targets."
==================
==================
Mid-February 1999, an Associated Press report in the Washington Post ended;

"The Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has offered asylum to bin Laden, who openly supports Iraq against Western powers."
==================
==================
In the spring of 1998, the Clinton administration indicted Osama bin Laden. It read;

"Al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq."
==================

[Which weapons were they? An Iraq did not have any WMD's at the time of the Iraq War.

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.
-- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.

The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
-- http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213

Next time your getting proof to back up your argument, do not use biased sources. These source were all based before it was found that Iraq had no WMD's.
Also, Iraq never had any WMD's. Even your president has admitted this and the UN would have gone to war had its ceasefire been broken. AS the UN did not go to war, there was no breaking of the ceasefire

For two, he failed to turn over his WMDs or proof of their destruction and he locked on to Coalition aircraft with his AA batteries.

Those AA missiles were fired on British, American and French air patrols innumerable times. And Saddam ejected the UN weapons inspectors.

So was Hussein.



Yet, Hussein did.

Still, Kosovo is, at best, a European problem, not US.

Hussein did attack Kuwait...in a DIFFERENT war. Hussien committed genocide back in 1991....why did it take 12 years to address the problem? Because that was not the reason put forward by Colin Powell to the UN security council. The reason given was the owning of WMD's, which were never found and were admiited by the American government to not exist.

No country on earth could have withstood the blitzkrig that Hitler launched upon France. Also, regardless of your views upon France, Britain and Russia's importance in the war is unquestionable.

Certainly no nation that had spent the last 20 years preparing to fight WWI again. Hitler's blitzkrieg required that they move quickly. Had France predicted an attack of such speed they would have been able to slow the German advance. This would have had an enormous impact on the war. Russia was probably the most important force, as they tied up countless German forces on the eastern front.

However, America would have lost had it not been for the joint invasion of France on D-Day with Britain and Canada.

How?

THen, describe how Britain would've even contemplated a D-Day invasion, let alone execute one, without the US to provide materiel and manpower. Further, without US escorts, how would Canadian troops have gotten through the U-Boats to England?

Also, Britain defeated Germany at the Battle of Britain, ending any chance of a German invasion.

Only because Hitler diverted the Luftwaffe from attacking RAF targets and to focus on civilians because British forces bombed Berlin in retaliation for the German bombing of Coventry.

The RAF was being torn apart and was on its last gasp. Had the Luftwaffe not been so diverted, the RAF would've been destroyed and the German invasion would've made Dunkerque look like a day in the park.

Also you seem to forget that Russia took Berlin at the end of the war.

How d'ya figure? I know full well that the Soviets took Berlin. Had it not been for D-Day, and Germany being forced to fight a two-front war, I think Germany could've rebounded even from the Stalingrad blunder.

Also in World War One, had you not joined the war, it would simply have still been a German defeat as they could no longer feed their troops and could no longer afford to still fight the war and it was left for the Wiemar republic in germany to declare peace.

Again, how much of World War I was fought on German soil?

Finally, America is at fault for the unnecessary dropping of the atomic bomb upon Japan, despite the Japanese being practically defeated and expecting an American invasion and seeking peace terms anyway.

Yeah. Right.

The Japanese losses from an invasion of the Home Islands would've dwarfed anything the atomic bombs could've caused.

Far more were killed in the fire-bombings of Tokyo, than in the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

The attack was necessary to minimize US losses. Enemy national losses are preferable.

How?

THen, describe how Britain would've even contemplated a D-Day invasion, let alone execute one, without the US to provide materiel and manpower. Further, without US escorts, how would Canadian troops have gotten through the U-Boats to England?



Only because Hitler diverted the Luftwaffe from attacking RAF targets and to focus on civilians because British forces bombed Berlin in retaliation for the German bombing of Coventry.

The RAF was being torn apart and was on its last gasp. Had the Luftwaffe not been so diverted, the RAF would've been destroyed and the German invasion would've made Dunkerque look like a day in the park.



How d'ya figure? I know full well that the Soviets took Berlin. Had it not been for D-Day, and Germany being forced to fight a two-front war, I think Germany could've rebounded even from the Stalingrad blunder.



Again, how much of World War I was fought on German soil?



Yeah. Right.

The Japanese losses from an invasion of the Home Islands would've dwarfed anything the atomic bombs could've caused.

Far more were killed in the fire-bombings of Tokyo, than in the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

The attack was necessary to minimize US losses. Enemy national losses are preferable.

Japan wanted to start peace treaty negotiations with America....that would have left no-one dead.
Hitler diverted the luftwaffe from invading Britain to bombing Britain becuase of the inability to defeat us in the air.
Finally, I am NOT arguing that America was not important. It was BUT other country's were equally important. No one country could have won the war on their own.

Over world war one, the allied forces only never reached Germany because the German's surrendered before an invasion could begin. Also had the Russian Revolution been prevented, Russia could have still been in the war which would have lead to a German defeat anyway. America was important as iot allowed us to overpower the German's but without French and British forces holding the German's back, America would not have been able to get involved in the first place.

In answer to the original question, I think the answer is in a lot of the answers posted here, predominantly from Americans.

It’s the demeaning and demonising behavior to other nations, the “do as we say not as we do”. Bush labeling certain nations as “evil” is a point in question. If you alienate and exclude those you have a grievance with, how can you resolve any issues in a democratic process? This might explain the Administrations u-turn.

It is very childish behavior and not very becoming of a self proclaimed “superior” nation.

I also find disturbing the comments from our U.S. friends that somehow diminishes the hard work and bravery of the European and Russian allies. The U.S. only gave us the resource to help us win. Even when Germany was sinking U.S. ships off the east coast of U.S.A. and Canada prior to joining WWII it was still saying “it’s not our war”.

Post war, the U.S. took all the work done by the Nazi’s and used it to their own end. Though I don’t blame them, the U.S. is not that good at inventing so it was a natural move after the Germans were defeated.

I travel to the U.S. quite a lot, the problem that was immediately apparent to me was ignorance born from being so insular.

Next time your getting proof to back up your argument, do not use biased sources. These source were all based before it was found that Iraq had no WMD's.

Must be great using 20/20 hindsight for your decisions.

Where were you on 7/7? Why didn't you warn your government that the attacks would take place?

Also, Iraq never had any WMD's. Even your president has admitted this and the UN would have gone to war had its ceasefire been broken. AS the UN did not go to war, there was no breaking of the ceasefire

As for Bush "knowing" there were no WMDs, let's examine this, hall we?

============================
Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials.
============================
-- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101460_pf.html

False charge?

Which one?


The charge that Iraqi uranium-shopping was debunked?
The charge that his report debunking it had been circulated?

If #1, then it seems that Iraq WAS trying to buy uranium in Niger - much to the chagrin of the nay-sayers.

If #2, then it would appear that the decision-makers never received his report debunking the Iraqi shopping, thus the administration did not have that piece of intelligence available to them when deciding what to do about Iraq. So, as best as Bush knew from intel available to him, Iraq WAS trying to buy Nigerian uranium, as he was not aware of any intel to the contrary.

Again, much to the chagrin of the nay-sayers.

Hussein did attack Kuwait...in a DIFFERENT war. Hussien committed genocide back in 1991....why did it take 12 years to address the problem? Because that was not the reason put forward by Colin Powell to the UN security council. The reason given was the owning of WMD's, which were never found and were admiited by the American government to not exist.

The genocide in '91 was a direct result of the U.S. enciting an uprising, promising help. The help never came and Saddam wiped it out.

If a group in the U.S. rose up against the Government, what would happen?

Double standards me thinks.

Must be great using 20/20 hindsight for your decisions.

Where were you on 7/7? Why didn't you warn your government that the attacks would take place?


I was against the Iraq war before it began as it was obvious that Iraq posed little to no threat. It was also obvious that the countries involved would be attacked by extremists.

The genocide in '91 was a direct result of the U.S. enciting an uprising, promising help. The help never came and Saddam wiped it out.

If a group in the U.S. rose up against the Government, what would happen?

Double standards me thinks.

If a group in the U.S. did that I doubt it would cause the government there to gas them. Also, had America finsihed the Gulf war off properly by demanding that Saddam be removed from power, maybe we would not be in a situation where an illegal war has been fought.

Might the dellusions many US citizens suffer have something to do with the animosity that has arisen in recent times? Both directly (as an aspect of the arrogance that pisses so many off) and indirectly (as one aspect that makes them such easy prey for the hype and propaganda they buy into so readily)?

Take the 'most freedoms' one poster boasts. Not true. I can borrow libary books and my government may not keep tabs on what I borrow. I can gamble on the internet. I could even whore myself out if I so desired. Neither government nor courts, nor any other entity or device can permently remove my right to vote. It's worth noting that every US citizen I've ever met in my country contends that my country is more free than their own.

Let's clarify who calls on who for help. We sent troops to help the US in Afghanistan, they've never sent troops to help us with our wars (probably because we are not in a habit of starting them). Evidently we sent our troops under the assurance that their where-abouts and movements would be kept secret - the US published said whereabouts on a public interent site; perhaps that explains why we might feel a bit miffed.

We regularly pass intelligence to the US, they dont pass any to us. All this after the US, in an attempt to black mail our government into ignoring the will of the populice, declared us no longer an ally.

As the biggest pimp of free-marketing on the face of the earth the US refuses to quit putting tarriffs on our stuff when we can ship high quality, subsidy-free goods across a whole hemisphere and still get them into US stores cheaper than the government subsidised US versions. The US doesnt do a thing for us, but we do stuff for the US. It is galling and false to harp about this 'the world calls on us but doesnt help us' crap. We dont call on the US, we do help the US, and we get less than thanks for our efforts.

Maybe if more Americans were willing and able to take an objective look at reality and the world they live in, including their own nation, they'd see that their own land has problems and other lands have advantages. I'm not interested in a 'my country is better than yours' pissing match, but it seems like a lot of Americans are obsessed by such things and unable to judge the issue objectively. This does concern me because I feel to a large degree it's this kind of thinking and blind adherence to a false belief in absolute superiority that makes the US populice such easy prey for even blatently obvious and transparant propaganda such as orchestrated on the nation by Bush & Co Ltd. This sort of thing might be concerning in a nation like North Korea, but it's an international menace when it occurs in a country with the kind of might that the US has.

It's not jealously, it's simple pragmatic self-interest that causes others to worry about the US. It has the largest stockpile of WMD on the face of the earth and we no longer trust Americans to be sensible and restrained in their use of them.

I dont hate America or Americans. I'm bloody worried about both, that's not the same as hate. I sincerely hope that matters will improve for the US in the future, but I greatly fear that they wont.

Might the dellusions many US citizens suffer have something to do with the animosity that has arisen in recent times? Both directly (as an aspect of the arrogance that pisses so many off) and indirectly (as one aspect that makes them such easy prey for the hype and propaganda they buy into so readily)?

Take the 'most freedoms' one poster boasts. Not true. I can borrow libary books and my government may not keep tabs on what I borrow. I can gamble on the internet. I could even whore myself out if I so desired. Neither government nor courts, nor any other entity or device can permently remove my right to vote. It's worth noting that every US citizen I've ever met in my country contends that my country is more free than their own.

Let's clarify who calls on who for help. We sent troops to help the US in Afghanistan, they've never sent troops to help us with our wars (probably because we are not in a habit of starting them). Evidently we sent our troops under the assurance that their where-abouts and movements would be kept secret - the US published said whereabouts on a public interent site; perhaps that explains why we might feel a bit miffed.

We regularly pass intelligence to the US, they dont pass any to us. All this after the US, in an attempt to black mail our government into ignoring the will of the populice, declared us no longer an ally.

As the biggest pimp of free-marketing on the face of the earth the US refuses to quit putting tarriffs on our stuff when we can ship high quality, subsidy-free goods across a whole hemisphere and still get them into US stores cheaper than the government subsidised US versions. The US doesnt do a thing for us, but we do stuff for the US. It is galling and false to harp about this 'the world calls on us but doesnt help us' crap. We dont call on the US, we do help the US, and we get less than thanks for our efforts.

Maybe if more Americans were willing and able to take an objective look at reality and the world they live in, including their own nation, they'd see that their own land has problems and other lands have advantages. I'm not interested in a 'my country is better than yours' pissing match, but it seems like a lot of Americans are obsessed by such things and unable to judge the issue objectively. This does concern me because I feel to a large degree it's this kind of thinking and blind adherence to a false belief in absolute superiority that makes the US populice such easy prey for even blatently obvious and transparant propaganda such as orchestrated on the nation by Bush & Co Ltd. This sort of thing might be concerning in a nation like North Korea, but it's an international menace when it occurs in a country with the kind of might that the US has.

It's not jealously, it's simple pragmatic self-interest that causes others to worry about the US. It has the largest stockpile of WMD on the face of the earth and we no longer trust Americans to be sensible and restrained in their use of them.

I dont hate America or Americans. I'm bloody worried about both, that's not the same as hate. I sincerely hope that matters will improve for the US in the future, but I greatly fear that they wont.


Which country are you from?

Hussein did attack Kuwait...in a DIFFERENT war.

Wrong.

Same war.

Ceasefires do not end wars, they pause them.

North and South Korea are still technically at war. Their conflict from the 50s was not resolved; it simply had a ceasefire. They are still at war with one another.

As for Bush "knowing" there were no WMDs, let's examine this, shall we?

============================
Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials.
============================
-- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101460_pf.html

False charge?

Which one?


The charge that Iraqi uranium-shopping was debunked?
The charge that his report debunking it had been circulated?

If #1, then it seems that Iraq WAS trying to buy uranium in Niger - much to the chagrin of the nay-sayers.

If #2, then it would appear that the decision-makers never received his report debunking the Iraqi shopping, thus the administration did not have that piece of intelligence available to them when deciding what to do about Iraq. So, as best as Bush knew from intel available to him, Iraq WAS trying to buy Nigerian uranium, as he was not aware of any intel to the contrary.

Again, much to the chagrin of the nay-sayers.

That does not account for why the war began. The fact is that WMD's were not the REAL cause of the Iraq war. The real reason is unknown, though most probably oil.

Wrong.

Same war.

Ceasefires do not end wars, they pause them.

North and South Korea are still technically at war. Their conflict from the 50s was not resolved; it simply had a ceasefire. They are still at war with one another.

If the breaking of the ceasefire was the cause of the war, wouldn't its have been declared once Hussein committed genocide? The fact is that Iraq did not break a ceasefire before America "carried on the war" and WMD's were not the real cause of it. Britain went to the war aswell and we are not defending an illegal war that has caused the downfall of Blair and made the world more dangerous.

Japan wanted to start peace treaty negotiations with America....

No, they did not.

There were some factions that wanted to do so, but not Tojo. Ya know, th' guy in charge?

Hitler diverted the luftwaffe from invading Britain to bombing Britain becuase of the inability to defeat us in the air.

*snort*
Yeah, right...

What's your next fantasy?

It was BUT other country's were equally important.

Only one that came close; the USSR. The rest had been defeated. France had surrendered and Britain was dying.

Over world war one, the allied forces only never reached Germany because the German's surrendered before an invasion could begin.

Ah, what "invasion?"

In order to invade, it's customary to have your enemy out of your own country first.

What, was France going to invade itself?

France couldn't control its own land; how would it have controlled Germany's?

America was important as iot allowed us to overpower the German's but without French and British forces holding the German's back, America would not have been able to get involved in the first place.

What do you think would have happened, had the US stayed out of WWI?

Which country are you from?
New Zealand.

No, they did not.

There were some factions that wanted to do so, but not Tojo. Ya know, th' guy in charge?



*snort*
Yeah, right...

What's your next fantasy?



Only one that came close; the USSR. The rest had been defeated. France had surrendered and Britain was dying.



Ah, what "invasion?"

In order to invade, it's customary to have your enemy out of your own country first.

What, was France going to invade itself?

France couldn't control its own land; how would it have controlled Germany's?



What do you think would have happened, had the US stayed out of WWI?

What are you arguing? Japan was defeated before two nukes were dropped on it, America only suceeded at D-Day because of canadian and British troops went with the American troops that went, Germany was being pushed back to its borders in World War One and ended the war before any invasion could start.

Also, I have not said that the war could have been won without America. I am simply pointing out that you are ignoring the efforts of the other countries which, had they not been fighting, would have resulted in a German victory anyway.

New Zealand.

I've always wanted to go to New Zealand. It must be one of the best countries on the planet to live in or visit.

New Zealand.
Where in Kiwiland?

And why the hell are you still up at 5am?

I've always wanted to go to New Zealand. It must be one of the best countries on the planet to live in or visit.
So far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to drop in (although if you live 'in the UK', it's probably a rather costly airfare).:D

I personally like living in New Zealand, although I expect to a large degree this is a matter of habituation. I'm accustomed to my country but if I'd grown up in some other modern, democratic nation, I'd probably feel the same way about it.

It all comes down to what you like I guess. I certainly wouldnt claim superiority for my country (or any other for that matter). I of course am inordinately fond of my 'fair land', and it's pleasing when others share my enjoyment, but I'm sure many countries are fine places to live (or visit) filled with great people, including (for all it's faults) the USA (and the UK for that matter, a place I've always been keen to visit). I'm (for instance) surely pissed and worried about recent happenings (involving the US), but that doesnt change the fact that the US is just another country and most of its citizens are as well meaning and as flawed as those of most other nations.

Where in Kiwiland?

And why the hell are you still up at 5am?
Auckland, and I have insomnia, evidently it's actually 5.24 am, but I'll let you off the 24 minutes...;)

So far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to drop in (although if you live 'States-side', it's probably a rather costly airfare).:D

I personally like living in New Zealand, although I expect to a large degree this is a matter of habituation. I'm accustomed to my country but if I'd grown up in some other modern, democratic nation, I'd probably feel the same way about it.

It all comes down to what you like I guess. I certainly wouldnt claim superiority for my country (or any other for that matter). I of course am inordinately fond of my 'fair land', and it's pleasing when others share my enjoyment, but I'm sure many countries are fine places to live (or visit) filled with great people, including (for all it's faults) the USA. I'm surely pissed and worried about recent happenings, but that doesnt change the fact that the US is just another country and most of its citizens are as well meaning and as flawed as those of most other nations.

America is probably a very beautiful country full of nice people (ive only ever been to Florida and the people there were very welcoming). However, sadly the country has been let down by its governments.

Also, many people in Britain love New Zealand. It is incredibly beautiful and I can assure you that I will have to find the money to visit one day :D

Though I don’t blame them, the U.S. is not that good at inventing so it was a natural move after the Germans were defeated.

Yeah...

Ben Franklin's Lightning Rod
David Bushnell's Submarine
Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts
Robert Fulton's Steamboat
John Jethro's Iron Plow
Thomas Blanchard's Profile Lathe
Joeseph Henry's Electro-magnetic Motor
McCormick's Reaping Machine
Walter Hunt's Sewing Machine
John A. and Hiram Abial Pitts' Threshing Machine
Samuel Colt's Revolver
Thomas Davenport's Power Tools
Crawford Williamson Long's Ether Anesthesia
Charles Goodyear's Vulcanized Rubber
Samuel Morse's Telegraph
Elisha Graves Otis' Passenger Elevator
Edwin T. Holmes' Burglar Alarm
B. Tyler Henry's Repeating Rifle
William Bullock's Web Offset Printer
Lucien B. Smith's Barbed Wire
Alfred Ely Beach's Pneumatic Subway
Christopher Latham Sholes' Typewriter
Thomas Alva Edison's Mimeograph, Phonograph and Incandescent Light Bulb
Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone
R.G. Rhodes' Hearing Aid
Dr. Schuyler Skaats Wheeler's Electric Fan
George Eastman's Kodak Camera
Thomas A. Edison and William Dickson's Kinetoscope
Jesse W. Reno's Escalator
Whitcomb L. Judson's Zipper
Willis H. Carrier's Air Conditioning
Orville and Wilbur Wright's Airplane
Philo Farnsworth's Television
Karl Guthe Jansky's Radio Telescope
Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhoven's Defibrillator
du Pont's Nylon
John Atanasoff and Clifford Berry's Digital Computer
Dr. Edwin H. Land's Polaroid Camera
Dr. John H. Gibbon's Heart-lung Machine
the Nuclear Submarine The Nautilus
Dr. Albert Sabin's Polio Vaccine
Theodore H. Maiman's Laser
Corning Glass' Optical Fiber
Dr. Robert Jarvik's Artificial Heart...

Nah, Americans haven't invented a thing...

That does not account for why the war began.

True.

It began because Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait.

The fact is that WMD's were not the REAL cause of the Iraq war.

Quite true.

The real reason is unknown, though most probably oil.

The reason is well known.

Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait.

If the breaking of the ceasefire was the cause of the war, wouldn't its have been declared once Hussein committed genocide?

No.

It was declared when Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait.

Yeah...

Ben Franklin's Lightning Rod
David Bushnell's Submarine
Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts
Robert Fulton's Steamboat
John Jethro's Iron Plow
Thomas Blanchard's Profile Lathe
Joeseph Henry's Electro-magnetic Motor
McCormick's Reaping Machine
Walter Hunt's Sewing Machine
John A. and Hiram Abial Pitts' Threshing Machine
Samuel Colt's Revolver
Thomas Davenport's Power Tools
Crawford Williamson Long's Ether Anesthesia
Charles Goodyear's Vulcanized Rubber
Samuel Morse's Telegraph
Elisha Graves Otis' Passenger Elevator
Edwin T. Holmes' Burglar Alarm
B. Tyler Henry's Repeating Rifle
William Bullock's Web Offset Printer
Lucien B. Smith's Barbed Wire
Alfred Ely Beach's Pneumatic Subway
Christopher Latham Sholes' Typewriter
Thomas Alva Edison's Mimeograph, Phonograph and Incandescent Light Bulb
Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone
R.G. Rhodes' Hearing Aid
Dr. Schuyler Skaats Wheeler's Electric Fan
George Eastman's Kodak Camera
Thomas A. Edison and William Dickson's Kinetoscope
Jesse W. Reno's Escalator
Whitcomb L. Judson's Zipper
Willis H. Carrier's Air Conditioning
Orville and Wilbur Wright's Airplane
Philo Farnsworth's Television
Karl Guthe Jansky's Radio Telescope
Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhoven's Defibrillator
du Pont's Nylon
John Atanasoff and Clifford Berry's Digital Computer
Dr. Edwin H. Land's Polaroid Camera
Dr. John H. Gibbon's Heart-lung Machine
the Nuclear Submarine The Nautilus
Dr. Albert Sabin's Polio Vaccine
Theodore H. Maiman's Laser
Corning Glass' Optical Fiber
Dr. Robert Jarvik's Artificial Heart...

Nah, Americans haven't invented a thing...


There may also have been a few diseases irradicated, a few vaccines created, a few advances in medical procedure.

And dont forget some drastic improvements on already existing inventions and systems.

We could also consider indoor plumbing, electricity and sewage/sanitation to every home.

But-why bother when we likely have detractors that still use chamber pots?

I was against the Iraq war before it began as it was obvious that Iraq posed little to no threat.

Did you omniscience feel differently about Afghanistan prior to 9/11 ? Wish you'd spoken up....

America is probably a very beautiful country full of nice people (ive only ever been to Florida and the people there were very welcoming). However, sadly the country has been let down by its governments.
Aha, I expect this is the case, along with the problem of the people being so easily sucked in by propaganda. I think the latter is a combination of human nature and the extreme hyper-'patriotism' that pervades the US. I was shocked to learn that in a great many schools, children from a young age are made to recite the pledge of allegiance on a daily basis. That's friggen brain washing.

It seems to me that a lot of these 'hyper-patriots' are not patriots at all. It isnt the US they love, but some idealised fantasy that simply doesnt exist.

Also, many people in Britain love New Zealand. It is incredibly beautiful and I can assure you that I will have to find the money to visit one day :D
There tends to be good relations between New Zealand and Britain (when we are not 'taking out' your top ruggers players before the whistle blows in the first game...oops, sorry 'bout that, not exactly cricket...).
The UK tends to be top of the O.E. list for kiwis, so it seems the fondness is mutual.
I look forward to your visit (even though I probably wont see you...).;)

No.

It was declared when Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait.

That was the original war.....America engineered the "second" Iraq war by claiming that Iraq had broken a ceasefire when it is clear that it had not.

The issue is not over whther Iraq caused the war in 1991, it is over the fact that America caused it to restart in 2003.

Japan was defeated before two nukes were dropped on it,

They were not defeated until they signed the surrender papers.

THEN they were defeated.

America only suceeded at D-Day because of canadian and British troops went with the American troops that went,

Ah, without the US, there'd've been no D-Day.

Germany was being pushed back to its borders in World War One and ended the war before any invasion could start.

That must be why the Western Front was static.

In France.

I am simply pointing out that you are ignoring the efforts of the other countries which, had they not been fighting, would have resulted in a German victory anyway.

I'm ignoring nothing.

Without the US, Germany would be in control of Europe and North Africa.

Without the other countries, There would've been three superpowers; the US, Germany and the USSR.

Between Germany and the USSR, the one to get nuclear weapons first would probably invade the other, with the US joining the defending nation.

The result?

Nuclear holocaust.

[snippage]
We could also consider indoor plumbing[snippage]
You forgot the time machine....you know the one you must have had to have gone back in time to give the indoor plumbing technology to say ancient Rome for instance....:p

That was the original war.....

The only war.

Again, ceasefires do not end wars, they pause them.

In answer to the original question, I think the answer is in a lot of the answers posted here, predominantly from Americans.

It’s the demeaning and demonising behavior to other nations, the “do as we say not as we do”. Bush labeling certain nations as “evil” is a point in question. If you alienate and exclude those you have a grievance with, how can you resolve any issues in a democratic process?

In the words of Chris Rock, whatever happened to "crazy"? How many dissidents did Saddam's sons have to throw into a woodchipper before you conceded that there was nothing to be gained by trying to "resolve issues" ? We gave him 12 years to quit being a dick.

I also find disturbing the comments from our U.S. friends that somehow diminishes the hard work and bravery of the European and Russian allies.

If America hadn't entered the war, "hard work and bravery" would have been on Europe's tombstone at best. If the Nazi's let them. and Russia treted with Hitler before he attacked them. No moral high ground there.

The U.S. only gave us the resource to help us win. Even when Germany was sinking U.S. ships off the east coast of U.S.A. and Canada prior to joining WWII it was still saying “it’s not our war”.

So our culture is we were doves slow to go to war.

But on Iraq you said our culture was hawks quick to war.

Damn hard to be right.

Post war, the U.S. took all the work done by the Nazi’s and used it to their own end. Though I don’t blame them, the U.S. is not that good at inventing so it was a natural move after the Germans were defeated.

Oh please....we led the post war technological boom where would the world be without the US pharmaceutical industry, to use ONE example.

I travel to the U.S. quite a lot, the problem that was immediately apparent to me was ignorance born from being so insular.

So stay home. And tell your friends.

Britain had been contained by the Germans to the home islands. I believe you were unimagineably lucky to have had the German bombs hit Coventry, then to retaliate by hitting Berlin. It caused Hitler to stop attacking military targets and start on civilian; far less valuable targets.

So, the RAF was given a breather and Operation See Lowe had to be called off.

But, it would've been only a matter of time - had the US not intervened - before Germany would've taken Britain down, either via a German dominated peace or conquest.
Why do you think this? England won the Battle of Britain. End of Story. "Germany made a bad decision, that's why Britain won". It still means British effort won the Battle of Britain.

Russia was also lucky through German blunders. And, a two front war. Had Hitler only the Eastern Front to contend with, with a powerful Japan starting a second front on Russia's East, Russia would not have withstood.
I see lots of ifs. The war happened as it happened. Germany made its blunders. If Russia had plasma cannons, they would have won without any help.

And, much of Russia's survival depended upon US Lend Lease. The US kept the Allies alive.
There's lots of dead Russian's who would have thought otherwise. Russia at the time would have fought with sticks and stones if they had to. The battle of Stalingrad kept the rest of Russia alive at horrific human cost. If I was Russian I'd be offended at your post.

I do not ignore any lost lives. However, had the US not joined in, had we stuck to fighting Japan - the ones who attacked us, but were put on the back-burner until Hitler was taken care of - do you honestly think that the Swastika would not be flying, at least, from Poland to the Channel; from the Baltic to North Africa?

Honestly?
Absolutely. THe hammer and sickle might, but definately not the Swastika. The decisive event in Germany's loss in WWII was the Eastern Front and the Battle of Stalingrad.
The failure to win the battle of Britain, meant a sea attack on Britain was not possible. If Hitler had kept the peace with Stalin, he could made the Normandy landing so difficult as to be near impossible and kept Western Europe and the lands in Central Europe he split with Stalin.


We may not have been there long, but we were instrumental, if not decisive, to Germany's defeat. Had we not shown up, I suspect the extant stalemate would've led to a ceasefire, followed by a nasty dust-up maybe a decade later That Germany, I believe, would've won.

Once again I disagree. Germany was struggling more than any other country in WWI. England and France both had it's sea trade and colonies to help support it. Germany was suffering and would have been starved out. All USA did was make it finish earlier.

In summary. America contributed. In WWI, Britain contributed more, in WWII Russia contributed more. The big problem is that the rest of the world accept that it was a joint effort, too many America likes to say that the USA was the most important element.

The USA were the most important element in setting up Goverments with Nazi collaborators in them, in preference to Communists, after WWII. I'll give you that.

They were not defeated until they signed the surrender papers.

THEN they were defeated.



Ah, without the US, there'd've been no D-Day.



That must be why the Western Front was static.

In France.



I'm ignoring nothing.

Without the US, Germany would be in control of Europe and North Africa.

Without the other countries, There would've been three superpowers; the US, Germany and the USSR.

Between Germany and the USSR, the one to get nuclear weapons first would probably invade the other, with the US joining the defending nation.

The result?

Nuclear holocaust.

Without Canada, Britain OR America D-Day would not have suceeded.
The Western Front may have been static until 1918 bu then the Germans pushed the front line to a few miles from Paris before Spansih Flu and starvation ended the forward push and they were beaten back by French, British and American troops. Then Germany surrended when it was obvious they could no longer win and there were severe food shortages. Also, if Italy had not taken out Austria, the war would have been lost anyway.
Finally, Japan was unable to attack America due to the lack of resources. Then America used the war as an excuse to test out a bomb upon living people despite it not being necessary to end the war, Japan would have surrended whther the Emporer wanted it or not.

In the words of Chris Rock, whatever happened to "crazy"? How many dissidents did Saddam's sons have to throw into a woodchipper before you conceded that there was nothing to be gained by trying to "resolve issues" ? We gave him 12 years to quit being a dick.



If America hadn't entered the war, "hard work and bravery" would have been on Europe's tombstone at best. If the Nazi's let them. and Russia treted with Hitler before he attacked them. No moral high ground there.



So our culture is we were doves slow to go to war.

But on Iraq you said our culture was hawks quick to war.

Damn hard to be right.



Oh please....we led the post war technological boom where would the world be without the US pharmaceutical industry, to use ONE example.



So stay home. And tell your friends.

Saddam being a dick is his choice, just like Bush, you don't have to help him be a dick. The war on Iraq has nothing to do with what the Administration tell us or Saddam being nasty to his peaople. If it was why do you let nastier people get on with it?

The Nazi's win WWII, that's another debate, but glad to see you are making my point.

PMSL, the only American invention is squirty cream, everything else you've come by.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader. Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off. Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:


I'm sure when I was 13 I had at least a reasonable grasp of the Englsih language....

In any case you raise a passable, if not infallible point. You maintain that the conduct of the Bush regime is disparate from the will of the US public, however, not only did the USA elect, and, indeed, re-elect, George Bush and his attendants, but the public support for Iraq, Afghanistan, and US policy in general was considerable.

You see, the point of democracy is that the government reflects the will of the electorate from which it develops....

You forgot the time machine....you know the one you must have had to have gone back in time to give the indoor plumbing technology to say ancient Rome for instance....:p

Which wasnt that widely used outside of Rome for a long,long time.

A system I stated was improved upon. I didnt claim Americans invented it.



Or did chamber pots never exist? Maybe it was some stylish thing?

So our culture is we were doves slow to go to war.

But on Iraq you said our culture was hawks quick to war.

Damn hard to be right.





Please- let them have it both ways. This way, we dont have to hear as much screeching and weeping.

So stay home. And tell your friends.

Thanks for the hospitality. With attitudes like that, that's probably why the U.S.A's not so attractive, I'd rather stay here thanks, probably a lot safer too because I'm such a whiny liberal Euro trash boo hoo hoo.

Thanks for the hospitality. With attitudes like that, that's probably why the U.S.A's not so attractive, I'd rather stay here thanks, probably a lot safer too because I'm such a whiny liberal Euro trash boo hoo hoo.

its clear you're intent on never appreciating it here anyway-No matter how good it actually is.

The USA IS so attractive.

Your choice to stay put is a smart one. Try to contribute to making wherever you live as good as it is here.

its clear you're intent on never appreciating it here anyway-No matter how good it actually is.

The USA IS so attractive.

Your choice to stay put is a smart one. Try to contribute to making wherever you live as good as it is here.

Oh you got me all wrong, I do appreciate how good the U.S. is, I almost joined the Marines.

Boston is my favorite city, Orlando my least.

The problem for me is I'm the wrong colour/color. I can't help that, it's the way I was born, but people can change their attitudes, they learn those.

its clear you're intent on never appreciating it here anyway-No matter how good it actually is.

The USA IS so attractive.

Your choice to stay put is a smart one. Try to contribute to making wherever you live as good as it is here.

I'd say there are alot of places better than America, despite it being a nice country, for example New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Austria etc.....

Your choice to stay put is a smart one. Try to contribute to making wherever you live as good as it is here.

Also, I live on Earth, I'd like that to be a nice place.

Saddam being a dick is his choice, just like Bush, you don't have to help him be a dick. The war on Iraq has nothing to do with what the Administration tell us or Saddam being nasty to his peaople.

sure it did. Your contention is there was a chance to "resolve" issues. Saddam and his heirs were lunatics. What happens when you can't negotiate with a guy that has invaded all his neighors, deployed chemical weapons, backed terrorists, fired on UN planes, and dicked around with the world community for 12 years and 19 UN resolutions? You stop his clock. Except for Britain and to a lesser degree Italy, the rest of Europe has been pussies for so long they forget that is an option. Or they want to avoid it because they need America's help to do it.

PMSL, the only American invention is squirty cream, everything else you've come by.

Roughly half the world's major pharmaceutical drugs have been invented in the US (5 percent of the world's population).

Also, I live on Earth, I'd like that to be a nice place.

Seconded

I'd say there are alot of places better than America, despite it being a nice country, for example New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Austria etc.....

I don't think it's the place, there are some nice places in the U.S.. The problem is the culture/history and the vastness. Not all states are so welcoming.

I don't think it's the place, there are some nice places in the U.S.. The problem is the culture/history and the vastness. Not all states are so welcoming.

Good point, its difficult when you try and compare the Rocky Mountains, New York and California (to name a few of the best places in America and possibly in the world) to places such as Nebraska and Detroit.

Thanks for the hospitality. With attitudes like that, that's probably why the U.S.A's not so attractive, I'd rather stay here thanks, probably a lot safer too because I'm such a whiny liberal Euro trash boo hoo hoo.


No need to thank me. Glad I could be here for you.

I'd say there are alot of places better than America, despite it being a nice country, for example New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Austria etc.....
Yeah, but ... they're in New Zealand (I've seen the Lord of the Rings, I don't need to go there), Australia (Dame Edna comes to the US every now and then, don't need to go there), Canada (do you know how cold it gets in Canada in the winter?), Austria (we have Schwartzenegger now & mountains just as high, don't need to go there) ... :p

I don't think it's the place, there are some nice places in the U.S.. The problem is the culture/history and the vastness. Not all states are so welcoming.

We have plenty of culture and history. Do read a little. You may not like us but please don't say we're uncultured and have only a history of bad things (which is the implication). Not all places in the US may be as welcoming as others but in general we're a pretty decent bunch of pepole. I do get a little weary of the periodic "Why I Don't Like America" threads.

I'd say there are alot of places better than America, despite it being a nice country, for example New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Austria etc.....

sure it did. Your contention is there was a chance to "resolve" issues. Saddam and his heirs were lunatics. What happens when you can't negotiate with a guy that has invaded all his neighors, deployed chemical weapons, backed terrorists, fired on UN planes, and dicked around with the world community for 12 years and 19 UN resolutions? You stop his clock. Except for Britain and to a lesser degree Italy, the rest of Europe has been pussies for so long they forget that is an option. Or they want to avoid it because they need America's help to do it.


So why did the U.S. help Saddam and Bin for so long? You even supplied him with the means!!!


Roughly half the world's major pharmaceutical drugs have been invented in the US (5 percent of the world's population).
I’d like to see the evidence, I think you mean you produce the most. So you have the market majority, like most other fields, fast food, arms, nuclear weapons, obesity, emissions, occupied nations, GM crops, to mention a few.

With so much power you could do such much good, but you choose not to, just play the field for what you can get and fudge it up. Your Administration is fighting a war of ideals and resource. Everything is about Dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence. Oh and the vote.

Yeah...

Ben Franklin's Lightning Rod
David Bushnell's Submarine
Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts
Robert Fulton's Steamboat
John Jethro's Iron Plow
Thomas Blanchard's Profile Lathe
Joeseph Henry's Electro-magnetic Motor
McCormick's Reaping Machine
Walter Hunt's Sewing Machine
John A. and Hiram Abial Pitts' Threshing Machine
Samuel Colt's Revolver
Thomas Davenport's Power Tools
Crawford Williamson Long's Ether Anesthesia
Charles Goodyear's Vulcanized Rubber
Samuel Morse's Telegraph
Elisha Graves Otis' Passenger Elevator
Edwin T. Holmes' Burglar Alarm
B. Tyler Henry's Repeating Rifle
William Bullock's Web Offset Printer
Lucien B. Smith's Barbed Wire
Alfred Ely Beach's Pneumatic Subway
Christopher Latham Sholes' Typewriter
Thomas Alva Edison's Mimeograph, Phonograph and Incandescent Light Bulb
Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone
R.G. Rhodes' Hearing Aid
Dr. Schuyler Skaats Wheeler's Electric Fan
George Eastman's Kodak Camera
Thomas A. Edison and William Dickson's Kinetoscope
Jesse W. Reno's Escalator
Whitcomb L. Judson's Zipper
Willis H. Carrier's Air Conditioning
Orville and Wilbur Wright's Airplane
Philo Farnsworth's Television
Karl Guthe Jansky's Radio Telescope
Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhoven's Defibrillator
du Pont's Nylon
John Atanasoff and Clifford Berry's Digital Computer
Dr. Edwin H. Land's Polaroid Camera
Dr. John H. Gibbon's Heart-lung Machine
the Nuclear Submarine The Nautilus
Dr. Albert Sabin's Polio Vaccine
Theodore H. Maiman's Laser
Corning Glass' Optical Fiber
Dr. Robert Jarvik's Artificial Heart...

Nah, Americans haven't invented a thing...
Where did you get that inaccurate list from?

We have plenty of culture and history. Do read a little. You may not like us but please don't say we're uncultured and have only a history of bad things (which is the implication). Not all places in the US may be as welcoming as others but in general we're a pretty decent bunch of pepole. I do get a little weary of the periodic "Why I Don't Like America" threads.

Your history is limited, originating from immigrants and built on slavery.

And I never said I don't like the U.S.. I said I dislike Orlando :rolleyes:

Yeah...

Ben Franklin's Lightning Rod
David Bushnell's Submarine
Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts
Robert Fulton's Steamboat
John Jethro's Iron Plow
Thomas Blanchard's Profile Lathe
Joeseph Henry's Electro-magnetic Motor
McCormick's Reaping Machine
Walter Hunt's Sewing Machine
John A. and Hiram Abial Pitts' Threshing Machine
Samuel Colt's Revolver
Thomas Davenport's Power Tools
Crawford Williamson Long's Ether Anesthesia
Charles Goodyear's Vulcanized Rubber
Samuel Morse's Telegraph
Elisha Graves Otis' Passenger Elevator
Edwin T. Holmes' Burglar Alarm
B. Tyler Henry's Repeating Rifle
William Bullock's Web Offset Printer
Lucien B. Smith's Barbed Wire
Alfred Ely Beach's Pneumatic Subway
Christopher Latham Sholes' Typewriter
Thomas Alva Edison's Mimeograph, Phonograph and Incandescent Light Bulb
Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone
R.G. Rhodes' Hearing Aid
Dr. Schuyler Skaats Wheeler's Electric Fan
George Eastman's Kodak Camera
Thomas A. Edison and William Dickson's Kinetoscope
Jesse W. Reno's Escalator
Whitcomb L. Judson's Zipper
Willis H. Carrier's Air Conditioning
Orville and Wilbur Wright's Airplane
Philo Farnsworth's Television
Karl Guthe Jansky's Radio Telescope
Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhoven's Defibrillator
du Pont's Nylon
John Atanasoff and Clifford Berry's Digital Computer
Dr. Edwin H. Land's Polaroid Camera
Dr. John H. Gibbon's Heart-lung Machine
the Nuclear Submarine The Nautilus
Dr. Albert Sabin's Polio Vaccine
Theodore H. Maiman's Laser
Corning Glass' Optical Fiber
Dr. Robert Jarvik's Artificial Heart...

Nah, Americans haven't invented a thing...

PMSL, are you serious???? that's the best fiction I've read this year

Your history is limited, originating from immigrants and built on slavery.

And I never said I don't like the U.S.. I said I dislike Orlando :rolleyes:

So because a people immigrated to a new land their history is sub standard?

I'd say there are alot of places better than America, despite it being a nice country, for example New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Austria etc.....

Thats certainly debatable and would involve different experience, etc...

I dont think there is any place better-across the board,hands down.

So because a people immigrated to a new land their history is sub standard?

It's their history, not America's.

The thread has been hijacked. I'm not getting into a flame war.

I answered the original question. I answered honestly. If you don't like my answer, either don't ask the question if it might give an answer you don't like or be grown up enough to accept other people do have a point of view that may be different to yours.

It's their history, not America's.

The thread has been hijacked. I'm not getting into a flame war.

I answered the original question. I answered honestly. If you don't like my answer, either don't ask the question if it might give an answer you don't like or be grown up enough to accept other people do have a point of view that may be different to yours.



We could all beg for the same consideration.

Yeah...

Ben Franklin's Lightning Rod
David Bushnell's Submarine
Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts
Robert Fulton's Steamboat
John Jethro's Iron Plow
Thomas Blanchard's Profile Lathe
Joeseph Henry's Electro-magnetic Motor
McCormick's Reaping Machine
Walter Hunt's Sewing Machine
John A. and Hiram Abial Pitts' Threshing Machine
Samuel Colt's Revolver
Thomas Davenport's Power Tools
Crawford Williamson Long's Ether Anesthesia
Charles Goodyear's Vulcanized Rubber
Samuel Morse's Telegraph
Elisha Graves Otis' Passenger Elevator
Edwin T. Holmes' Burglar Alarm
B. Tyler Henry's Repeating Rifle
William Bullock's Web Offset Printer
Lucien B. Smith's Barbed Wire
Alfred Ely Beach's Pneumatic Subway
Christopher Latham Sholes' Typewriter
Thomas Alva Edison's Mimeograph, Phonograph and Incandescent Light Bulb
Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone
R.G. Rhodes' Hearing Aid
Dr. Schuyler Skaats Wheeler's Electric Fan
George Eastman's Kodak Camera
Thomas A. Edison and William Dickson's Kinetoscope
Jesse W. Reno's Escalator
Whitcomb L. Judson's Zipper
Willis H. Carrier's Air Conditioning
Orville and Wilbur Wright's Airplane
Philo Farnsworth's Television
Karl Guthe Jansky's Radio Telescope
Dr. William Bennett Kouwenhoven's Defibrillator
du Pont's Nylon
John Atanasoff and Clifford Berry's Digital Computer
Dr. Edwin H. Land's Polaroid Camera
Dr. John H. Gibbon's Heart-lung Machine
the Nuclear Submarine The Nautilus
Dr. Albert Sabin's Polio Vaccine
Theodore H. Maiman's Laser
Corning Glass' Optical Fiber
Dr. Robert Jarvik's Artificial Heart...

Nah, Americans haven't invented a thing...


Wasn't the televison was invented by John Logie Baird, a scotsman?

Why do you support the war in Iraq? There was no connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda, there were no weapons of mass destruction, I'm not sure Saddam had changed his rhetoric recently before we went in. Oh, sure, he was jerking the UN inspectors around but no one got annoyed by that before. Even the Bush Administration admits the al-Qaeda, WMD points, by the way. All they have left is "he was ebil." He was but was taking him out worth the lives of 3,000 Americans? You're 13. You'll see this differently in time.

I heard the other day that Bush does have a withdrawal plan, the troops in Iraq will be coming home via Iran.


I support the war in Iraq because Saddam was an evil man who needs to die. He massacred his own people. He wrongly imprisoned men, women, and children letting the die horrible deaths of all kinds of diseases full of pain. Families live everyday without any knowledge of if their loved ones are alive or dead, and if they are dead, how painful their deaths were. Saddam and his sons were sadists who enjoyed hurting people. How can we allow others to be governed that a man like that?

It is impossible to put any value on a life, and lives cannot be traded, but they can be protected. We should all protect the weak which is what we're doing in Iraq. I understand that Americans are dying because of it, but can you honestly say that the Iraqi's don't deserve protection, help, and our respect?

In the past, America had no trouble protecting the world. The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine states that "chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence that results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation. And in the western hemisphere, the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence, to the exercise of an international police power.” Basically, its out duty to help those whose governments are out of control.

Ameuropa
,views,

Wasn't the televison was invented by John Logie Baird, a scotsman?

No- but he was amongst many that made imprtant contributions to the finished,functioning product.

So why did the U.S. help Saddam and Bin for so long? You even supplied him with the means!!!

<shrug> Without debating the realities that led to past "alliances", that was decades ago. How about now?

(on pharma drug discovery) I’d like to see the evidence, I think you mean you produce the most.

I'm not looking it up. It is well known. As new drug development continues to switch from chemical to biopharm America's leadership in new breakthrough drugs will accelerate even further.

With so much power you could do such much good, but you choose not to, just play the field for what you can get and fudge it up. Your Administration is fighting a war of ideals and resource. Everything is about Dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence. Oh and the vote.

That is a capitalist democracy. It is why we have become the richest, most powerful, most influential country in the world -- a system based on democracy and innivation and production.

Sure it is flawed. What did Churchill say? <paraphrasing> "Democracy is the worst form of government except for every other method that has been tried?"

Same applies to capitalism. There is no reward or upside to innovation or hard work in a socialist country (or not enough). The success and longevity of a society depends upon how productive its citizens are. Ask Gorbachev.

Michigan, California, New York, and North Carolina are pretty hawt, in my opinion. :)

I support the war in Iraq because Saddam was an evil man who needs to die. He massacred his own people. He wrongly imprisoned men, women, and children letting the die horrible deaths of all kinds of diseases full of pain. Families live everyday without any knowledge of if their loved ones are alive or dead, and if they are dead, how painful their deaths were. Saddam and his sons were sadists who enjoyed hurting people. How can we allow others to be governed that a man like that?

It is impossible to put any value on a life, and lives cannot be traded, but they can be protected. We should all protect the weak which is what we're doing in Iraq. I understand that Americans are dying because of it, but can you honestly say that the Iraqi's don't deserve protection, help, and our respect?

In the past, America had no trouble protecting the world. The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine states that "chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence that results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation. And in the western hemisphere, the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence, to the exercise of an international police power.” Basically, its out duty to help those whose governments are out of control.

This is why people criticise US foreign policy. Because this rhetoric is spouted, yet it belies an ugly truth: US foreign policy is based on self-interest.

The US has publicly supported people who massacred their own people. Who wrongly imprisoned men, women, and children letting them die horrible deaths of all kinds of diseases full of pain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile#1973

In the past, America had no trouble protecting the world. The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine states that "chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence that results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation. And in the western hemisphere, the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence, to the exercise of an international police power.” Basically, its out duty to help those whose governments are out of control.

Er...I'm in rough political agreement with you, but that only applied to the Western Hemisphere.

Frankly, I'm sick of playing policeman to an ungrateful world. Let France and Sweden go bail out Bosnia and Somalia and Kuwait.

Er...I'm in rough political agreement with you, but that only applied to the Western Hemisphere.

Frankly, I'm sick of playing policeman to an ungrateful world. Let France and Sweden go bail out Bosnia and Somalia and Kuwait.

As one of the people who was unfortunate enough to receive US 'aid', I would strongly support any limit on US intervention around the world, including the western hemisphere.

Frankly, I'm sick of playing policeman to an ungrateful world. Let France and Sweden go bail out Bosnia and Somalia and Kuwait.
Because France didn't take part in those interventions...

I am a brit, and don't like America very much. Now before you all stone me to death (:rolleyes: ) I don't have anything against the American people (except maybe their talent to pervert history very slightly :p ). One of the reasons I don't like america is the IRA. the IRA attacked Britain countless times in the 1970's and -80's, and who financed the IRA? yup, u guessed it, the US. but then the US is attacked by terrorists, they expect us to go to war to deal with them?
Once again, I have nothing against the American people, i just dont like america's policy or government. oh, and im slightly resentful at the fact you guys kicked us out in 1776 or whenever it was. :p

OK. I couldnt really be bothered to read through every comment in this thread, so if I am repeating anything already said, apologies in advance.

People love to complain about Americans being ignorant about the outside world, and being too ready to swallow everything their media and government tells them, but here we have a 13 year old American who has actually taken the effort to ask a reasonable question on the subject, and straight away everyone wants to attack him rather than discuss.

Is it any wonder so many in the US doesnt want to hear the worlds opinions?

It has become the fashionable thing to do, especially for Europeans, to attack the United States for anything and everything they do. Often there is justification for criticism, but more and more often its purely out of jealousy. Not so long ago, it was the great European powers that were going around the world inflicting their own ideas of justice and civilization, acting as the 'world police'. Now that Europe's power is diminished and the US has taken over the role, everyone wants to complain.

Yes, by all means criticise the US, it deserves it in many cases. But average everyday Americans shouldn't be the targets they are increasingly becoming.

I am British, by the way, and consider myself a European.

to be honest, anyone would complain if they were once the world's greatest power, and in a span of 60 or so years you became a country of limited influence, and was being pulled in different directions by different alliegances (is that spelt right? :confused: ).

Please, learn how to spell.
likt het een politiek statement?

OK. I couldnt really be bothered to read through every comment in this thread, so if I am repeating anything already said, apologies in advance.

People love to complain about Americans being ignorant about the outside world, and being too ready to swallow everything their media and government tells them, but here we have a 13 year old American who has actually taken the effort to ask a reasonable question on the subject, and straight away everyone wants to attack him rather than discuss.

Is it any wonder so many in the US doesnt want to hear the worlds opinions?

It has become the fashionable thing to do, especially for Europeans, to attack the United States for anything and everything they do. Often there is justification for criticism, but more and more often its purely out of jealousy. Not so long ago, it was the great European powers that were going around the world inflicting their own ideas of justice and civilization, acting as the 'world police'. Now that Europe's power is diminished and the US has taken over the role, everyone wants to complain.

Yes, by all means criticise the US, it deserves it in many cases. But average everyday Americans shouldn't be the targets they are increasingly becoming.

I am British, by the way, and consider myself a European.


Well said. A mature and accurate statement,I agree with.

Thank you.

It has become the fashionable thing to do, especially for Europeans, to attack the United States for anything and everything they do. Often there is justification for criticism, but more and more often its purely out of jealousy. Not so long ago, it was the great European powers that were going around the world inflicting their own ideas of justice and civilization, acting as the 'world police'. Now that Europe's power is diminished and the US has taken over the role, everyone wants to complain.
World powers will always face a reversed underdoug-effect. It always has been like that.

Yes, by all means criticise the US, it deserves it in many cases. But average everyday Americans shouldn't be the targets they are increasingly becoming.
An opinion probably shared by most.

I am British, by the way, and consider myself a European.
Ooooh, a rarity. You should be put in a zoo and be experimented on. ;)

After spending too much time from my life to read the whole damn thread (why, oh why did I bother?) I decided to just reply to the OP.

Ok I am and an american and very greatfull to be one. As I know the hate towards my country. Though I know why many people have such strong feelings about us i understand. But when people say I want America to die or whatever are you talking about the people. I know that normal Americans have done nothing to you, You cant think that all americans are like bush...Just like you cant say all people from North Korea are like their fat leader.
Bingo! Until this point, spelling and grammar aside, you were coming across as trying to make an intelligent point, but then you lost it.
The reason why many people feel... unhappy with the US is the belief that they believe themselves to be better than the rest of the world. You were trying to ask that question, and doing well, but you had to start throwing insults. Why mention that Kim Jong Il is fat? Was there a point to it, or just an insult?
Come on everyone knows Americans work their buts off.
Spurious point. What are you trying to say? That other Countries peoples don't? Do you have any basis for this?
Its the goverment to hate. They are only carring out a small radical ideas.

I wanted to know the veiw on us(Americans) or for you freaks Usains
Again, why the hate? You're changing from someone asking a perfectly fair question to an ignorant peon in a few simple sentences.
and also will the takeover of the senate and house and mybe a democratic prez in 08' change the world veiw on evil america like they say now.

And would your veiw on the Iraqi War change if terrorist conducted a 9/11 style on YOUR country? I support the war and im 13 but how its being fought is a whole nother story.....THANKS RUMSBUTT!!!!:upyours:

My view on the Iraq War would not change had any terrorist conducted a 9/11 attack on my Country because Iraq had no involvement in that attack so attacking them just seems to be pointless.
So you support the War, good for you, but why do you support it? And what does you being aged 13 have to do with you supporting it, have you been so easily brainwashed at such an early age?

To sum up, your post shows what so many people have against Americans, or at least the perceived view of Americans. You insult those people who have a differing viewpoint than that which you hold whilst lambasting them for doing the same to you.

Er...I'm in rough political agreement with you, but that only applied to the Western Hemisphere.

Frankly, I'm sick of playing policeman to an ungrateful world. Let France and Sweden go bail out Bosnia and Somalia and Kuwait.

I agree, Let the UN and France deal with the rest of the world's atrocities. I think it's time that the US let's the rest of the world fend for themselves for a change with the exception of N. Korea we must act to prevent them from sending us a Nuke and Yes this would be in our self interest to take the Nukes away from N. Korea.

As for the rest, we need to pull out and close some bases we have around the world including the one in Germany. There's no purpose in having that one.

You are quite right about them being ungrateful and unappreciative. I say it's time America focuses on America first. It's time that our government focuses on the People first for a change instead of putting the ungrateful World above our own. We could save a fortune if we stopped sending our unwanted dollars across the globe and used it to fix our Great Nation.

I agree, Let the UN and France deal with the rest of the world's atrocities. I think it's time that the US let's the rest of the world fend for themselves for a change with the exception of N. Korea we must act to prevent them from sending us a Nuke and Yes this would be in our self interest to take the Nukes away from N. Korea.

As for the rest, we need to pull out and close some bases we have around the world including the one in Germany. There's no purpose in having that one.

You are quite right about them being ungrateful and unappreciative. I say it's time America focuses on America first. It's time that our government focuses on the People first for a change instead of putting the ungrateful World above our own. We could save a fortune if we stopped sending our unwanted dollars across the globe and used it to fix our Great Nation.

Sorry, KB, but you did walk into this one. We're spending $250,000,000 a day in Iraq. Let's save that money first and let the rest of the world go to hell.

Sorry, KB, but you did walk into this one. We're spending $250,000,000 a day in Iraq. Let's save that money first and let the rest of the world go to hell.

I thought about that already, the only nation that should get our immediate attention is N. Korea. It'll be hell if they sent either California or Alaska a nuke. You are right about Iraq, we'll be criticized if we stay, we'll be criticized if we leave. It's kinda like damned if you do, damned if you don't. I say let's be criticized for leaving Iraq, atleast then we'd be saving billions of dollars instead of being criticized for staying paying billions of dollars.

The world doesn't understand that our government seemingly puts the world before it's own. We're a land of immigrants. Let's pull out of Iraq and say the hell with the rest of the world and then bomb the hell out of N. Korea. Make it uninhabitual so we don't have to worry about another psychotic dictator moving in to be within Nukes reach of the USA.

Your history is limited, originating from immigrants and built on slavery.

And I never said I don't like the U.S.. I said I dislike Orlando :rolleyes:

Does that mean Australia is right out because their culture originated from immigrants and was built on the backs of criminals?

just trying to broaden the scope of this idea...

Where did you get that inaccurate list from?

You contest it?

Care to tell us why?

What on the list is false?

Then, I'll provide the source.

Wasn't the televison was invented by John Logie Baird, a scotsman?

I used to think the same, but;

Philo Farnsworth
The key to the television picture tube came to him at 14, when he was still a farm boy, and he had a working device at 21. Yet he died in obscurity.
-- http://www.time.com/time/time100/scientist/profile/farnsworth.html

US foreign policy is based on self-interest.

What nation's isn't?

who is called upon when things really get tough?
Kofi Annan.
Who was called in 1917?
The US. "Why aren't you getting involved yet, you bastards?"
1939?
The US. "Why are you still turning back Jews, and why can't you help a bit more?"
Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?
You weren't really needed to, to be honest.
The US was.
You were also doubtless called for Rwanda. And called about why you still strangely support Israel. You were also probably called about why you disobeyed the UN on Iraq.

Shame you only answer the phone when it's your own interests calling, to be honest.
So, everyone hates us.
It's really your own fault, you know.
Everyone has always hated us.
Not true, most people were sympathetic for about 9 seconds after September 11th, until Bush opened his mouth.
Probably, everyone will always hate us.
If things continue how they are now, then yes, yes we will.
Until they need us.
Which is right when you don't get involved.

I thought about that already, the only nation that should get our immediate attention is N. Korea. It'll be hell if they sent either California or Alaska a nuke. You are right about Iraq, we'll be criticized if we stay, we'll be criticized if we leave. It's kinda like damned if you do, damned if you don't. I say let's be criticized for leaving Iraq, atleast then we'd be saving billions of dollars instead of being criticized for staying paying billions of dollars.

The world doesn't understand that our government seemingly puts the world before it's own. We're a land of immigrants. Let's pull out of Iraq and say the hell with the rest of the world and then bomb the hell out of N. Korea. Make it uninhabitual so we don't have to worry about another psychotic dictator moving in to be within Nukes reach of the USA.

Even though bombing the living daylights out of North Korea does have a certain visceral appeal, it wouldn't do anything more than piss off the rest of the world at us. I know, you don't care what the rest of the world thinks about us, but unfortunately isolationism isn't really an option. We have to trade with the rest of the world or our economy will collapse. Besides, bombing N. Korea into a radioactive slagheap would just send all sorts of radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere, and they'd blow their merry way across the Pacific to ... California and Alaska (and Oregon and Washington and Idaho and ...). You're probably too young to remember when radioactive strontium and cesium and such came wafting over from Soviet and Chinese nuclear tests, showing up in the milk produced in such far-away places as Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. It's not nice stuff. If North Korea actually does lob a nuke at the West Coast, we can slag them just as easily with conventional weapons and we'd be justified. Think of it as a playground. You're the biggest kid there. You can't go smacking littler kids just because they looked at you funny. If one of them pulls a weapon on you, that's another story.

What nation's isn't?
True, true, but on the other hand, most nations consider how pissed off people are going to be and whether it's really worth it because of that. The US doesn't seem to, sadly.

True, true, but on the other hand, most nations consider how pissed off people are going to be and whether it's really worth it because of that. The US doesn't seem to, sadly.

Some of us do. And we'll be in charge soon enough. I think I already apologized for the Bush Administration a couple months ago. :p

I would like to put in my .02 cents (US) on this discussion. I am a US Citizen (remember none of us had a choice of where we were born) by birth, and I think this is an okay country. I have lots of issues with the government and the overall culture of the country, but some of us are trying hard to make things better while others are trying hard to make themselves richer. This is the way of the world of the United States.

I have had the good fortune to visit Europe (only for a month during the summer of 2005), so I have had limited personal contact with other countries. I was also a history and anthropology double major, so I have studied the cultures of other areas of the world and time periods in our world history.

I think that there are two sides to the problem with the United States right now. Part of the problem is the insular nature of the United States (because we are bounded by only 2 countries (I'm not really counting Russia as a border because it's not bordering the vast majority of the US) and our sheer size makes it impractical, difficult, and expensive to visit other nations. This lends to a lack of personal knowledge of other countries. Our culture of "Woo America is the best!" also doesn't help much.

On the other side of it we are dealing with a world that cannot decide once and for all whether they want us to jump into their business or to stay out of it. I would be perfectly content with my country just standing on the sidelines until the UN goes "Hey, US, you're on the field!", but invaribly there will be some nation somewhere that will decry our callousness by failing to intervene.

I would like to point out a huge problem I have with people saying we elected Bush twice. First of all, a very low percentage of our population votes (a huge problem in and of itself) so even if Bush received a majority of votes, it is hardly the case that the majority of Americans voted for him. Most likely the majority of Americans are either so jaded to the process of voting or care so little that they fail to do their civic duty. Secondly, in the 2000 election Bush lost the popular vote but got the majority of electoral votes. The issue went to the Supreme Court, who decided the victor. I hardly count that as the citizenship voting for him. 2004 is a whole 'nother issue in my book (and I was staunchly against his re-election, but alas that my vote cannot counter all the votes for him).

I'm glad to see so many people saying "Dislike the government, not the people" because the majority of (aka the "average" Joe Schmoe) US citizens are fine fellows and not at all like our leaders. This is the nature of class differences.

The US has done both good and bad things in the international area; I am not proud of the bad things we have done, but there is nothing I can do about things that happened before I reached the age of majority in my country (as I was not a "full citizen" and therefore had no real ability to affect change on my government).

I guess that's all. :)

Some of us do. And we'll be in charge soon enough. I think I already apologized for the Bush Administration a couple months ago. :p
Yes, that's true, it's just that the simian public face of the US at this point preaches hypocrisy and intolerance, and this reflects quite badly on the nation, sadly.

You contest it?

Care to tell us why?

What on the list is false?

Then, I'll provide the source.

Although I find no reason to doubt the accuracy of your list, I'm afraid that I find your statement (as quoted above) to be rather lacking.

I hope you can agree with me that when supplying people with facts then the correct (academic) thing to do would be to give us a source along with it.
That way we can test it ourselves without resorting to accusations.
I can understand you might feel attacked but seeing as you think yourself in the right here then I assume you shouldn't fear accusations of supplying false information.

Lightning Rod - US
Submarine - The Netherlands
Cotton Gin and development of stadardized Interchangeable Parts - US
Steamboat - France
Iron Plow - Schotland
Profile Lathe - US
Electro-magnetic Motor - magnetic one could be US
Reaping Machine - US
Sewing Machine - England
Threshing Machine - Scotland
Revolver - US
...

Fuck this, there are too few things right. While the US did invent much, I don't see a reason to drag in things the rest of the world invented.

can i just say, i saw a program ages ago, (cant remember what it was called) that said an englishman invented the revolver, but the american sold it, calling it his own. I think it was inventions that change the world or something :p and a british man invented a steam boat. No, actually that was Leonardo Da Vinci i think, but the englishman made the 1st one

Yes, that's true, it's just that the simian public face of the US at this point preaches hypocrisy and intolerance, and this reflects quite badly on the nation, sadly.

Hey, I get to look at that face a lot more than you do. :D A couple of years, is all. That duck is going to be pretty lame come January.

I support the war in Iraq because Saddam was an evil man who needs to die. He massacred his own people. He wrongly imprisoned men, women, and children letting the die horrible deaths of all kinds of diseases full of pain. Families live everyday without any knowledge of if their loved ones are alive or dead, and if they are dead, how painful their deaths were. Saddam and his sons were sadists who enjoyed hurting people. How can we allow others to be governed that a man like that?

Basically, its out duty to help those whose governments are out of control.
Saddam's genocide programmes were a thing of the past. Evil as the Husseins were. The Iraqi people are probably worse off now than they were before.

Thinking that the Iraq war has aided the cause of democracy in the Middle East is dangerously naive. Among its many disservices to the West, and to the Iraqis, it has caused Iran to become the region's #1 power.

Well said. A mature and accurate statement,I agree with.

Thank you.
Really? It ignored the obvious fact that few Europeans are proud of their countries' past imperialism, while the number of Americans that are proud ofm their country's imperialism is much higher.

I agree, Let the UN and France deal with the rest of the world's atrocities.
Funny how so many US conservatives wanted intervention so badly because they couldn't see what was so obvious all along: that the money was best spent on America.

Kofi Annan.

-snip-

You were also doubtless called for Rwanda. And called about why you still strangely support Israel. You were also probably called about why you disobeyed the UN on Iraq.

Shame you only answer the phone when it's your own interests calling, to be honest.

-snip-



Sorry, for us disobeying the UN, that's just too funny. The UN in itself is a laugh. They are supposed to be more than just talk. It seems that that's all they want to do is talk. They pass their resolutions on nations, if it doesn't work, hell, let's pass another one, maybe this one will work. Nope, Let's try it again. Now the UN takes the saying, "Try, try, try again; if at first you don't succeed, Try, try, try again." I wonder if that is meant for eternity. Never ending.

No the USA does NOT and should NOT be what to do and when to do something by that failed organzation.

As for our "self-interests" which nation's foreign policy doesn't involve "self-interests"

As Powers are concerned, Britain had their glories as a super power, France had their time, Greece had their time in History, Russia and Germany had their time, and so on. So NOW is USA's time. and no matter what you or anybody else will say will convince me otherwise. I Love my Country. I am Proud to be American. The Land of the Free and the Home to the Brave.

Does that mean Australia is right out because their culture originated from immigrants and was built on the backs of criminals?

just trying broaden the scope of this idea...

Don't even go there. I thought this was the worlds view on the U.S.??

Australia is worse than the U.S. on civil rights issues among other things and I think they're even more right wing than the U.S. but they have the right idea on immigration. But they're not rolling around the middle east annoying people either.

Don't even go there. I thought this was the worlds view on the U.S.??

Australia is worse than the U.S. on civil rights issues among other things and I think they're even more right wing than the U.S. but they have the right idea on immigration. But they're not rolling around the middle east annoying people either.

What do you mean don't even go there? I'm just trying to see if this kind of logic applies to countries other than the United States or if it's a double standard specificially reserved for the USA.

*snippity* As Powers are concerned, Britain had their glories as a super power, France had their time, Greece had their time in History, Russia and Germany had their time, and so on. So NOW is USA's time. and no matter what you or anybody else will say will convince me otherwise. I Love my Country. I am Proud to be American. The Land of the Free and the Home to the Brave.

I love my country, too, and I am proud to be an American. You cannot, O free and brave King (why choose such an anti-American name, didn't we fight in 1776 to rid ourselves of kings?), you cannot spit in the world's eye. You have to look outside your self and consider others, other people, other countries. This is known as growing up. Be an adult.

Oh dear... *sigh
Another American kid who can't understand why the world doesn't simply love and adore this most marvelous of all countries.

NO country - not a single one, on the whole face of this little planet - is loved by everyone.
Name any country, open a thread about how perfect it is, and I guarantee you that on the first page, you'll be torn to shreds for it. And I literally mean any country. Ask Swilatila (sorry if I misspelt that), he got flamed for praising Poland. People get flamed for admiring Israel, Germany, France, Morocco, Japan, Argentina, Cuba, Austria... you name it, we flame it.

That's life. You can't expect the entire rest of the world to agree on something as complex and multi-leveled as a country. Even people in your country don't agree on everything, now, do they?

I love my country, too, and I am proud to be an American. You cannot, O free and brave King (why choose such an anti-American name, didn't we fight in 1776 to rid ourselves of kings?), you cannot spit in the world's eye. You have to look outside your self and consider others, other people, other countries. This is known as growing up. Be an adult.


This name was chosen for a few reasons, 1. it's make believe (as in not real) 2. I have 2 other nations too. I have a democracy and then I have 2 dictorships, one dictator who is classified as "father knows best" and the other as a "psychotic dictator" again I must emphasize that Running my 3 nations is for Fun, make believe. Therefore, has no reflection on my views nor my Love for my country.

For the Record: I am 29 years old. :)

As one of the people who was unfortunate enough to receive US 'aid', I would strongly support any limit on US intervention around the world, including the western hemisphere.

Yes, well, of course in any major world issue we are all waiting breathlessly to hear what Canada is going to do.

As Powers are concerned, Britain had their glories as a super power, France had their time, Greece had their time in History, Russia and Germany had their time, and so on. So NOW is USA's time. and no matter what you or anybody else will say will convince me otherwise.

And yet...perhaps even the USA has had it's time.

However how would you define a power, seeing as the nations you summed up were all reknowed for their imperialistic tendencies. Hardly a positive trait. I shall assume you ascribe a more benevolent trait towards the USA so I shall try not to implicitly conclude anything from your rather dubious superpower list.

What do you mean don't even go there? I'm just trying to see if this kind of logic applies to countries other than the United States or if it's a double standard specificially reserved for the USA.

Yes it does apply to other countries, lots of them. Australia has a terrible record, Britain, Uganda, China to name but a few. This thread is about the U.S..

Sorry, for us disobeying the UN, that's just too funny. The UN in itself is a laugh. They are supposed to be more than just talk. It seems that that's all they want to do is talk. They pass their resolutions on nations, if it doesn't work, hell, let's pass another one, maybe this one will work. Nope, Let's try it again. Now the UN takes the saying, "Try, try, try again; if at first you don't succeed, Try, try, try again." I wonder if that is meant for eternity. Never ending.

No the USA does NOT and should NOT be what to do and when to do something by that failed organzation.
Then leave it, for fuck's sake, and rid us of a nation which vetoes any attempt to condemn Israel or itself for any heinous actions made. You'd be doing us all a favour.

It's not the UN's fault that the US vetoes anything it doesn't really like, so don't take it as such.
As for our "self-interests" which nation's foreign policy doesn't involve "self-interests"
I've already commented on this. Every nation does, but most don't casually spit in the face of the rest of the world.

And yet...perhaps even the USA has had it's time.

However how would you define a power, seeing as the nations you summed up were all reknowed for their imperialistic tendencies. Hardly a positive trait. I shall assume you ascribe a more benevolent trait towards the USA so I shall try not to implicitly conclude anything from your rather dubious superpower list.

I foresee that USA will be around for quite a while. There is no doubt in my mind that the USA will be around for a very long time.

I think that China may well be on their way to becoming a SuperPower and that will be very interesting to see what happens then.

I think many Europeans are naive about the current state of the world. The proliferation of Islam, nuclear technology, missile tecnology and other WMD capabilities is an historic new challenge for world peace. You can't just hope it will go away. There are crazy people .. c-r-a-z-y .. in Iran and North Korea and other countries whose goal is to get these and attack the West.

I also think Europeans underestimate the impact 9-11 had on the US. I live 25 miles form the tip of Manahattan. 18 parents from my church were killed that morning. You could smell the fires for a month. The fincancial nerve center of the country was, in essenced, nuked. My sister lives 10 miles from the Pentagon. The military never center of America was, in essence, nuked.

I knew that moring, somebody is getting a vicious beat down behind this.

Why? Well, many people believe it is because of a cult of medieval Islamist preaching hate and mass murder in the Middle East. Now we could go play whack-a-mole around the region, or you could hope that democratization, freedom and modern freedoms would undermine mullahs teching religious murder.

Afghanistan - first democracy ever. Iraq - on its way, free elections. Would be better if the Sunnis and Shittes would stop murdering each other, but that goes back to 850 AD.

Five years and not a single terror attack on the US.

I support Bush.

Then leave it, for fuck's sake, and rid us of a nation which vetoes any attempt to condemn Israel or itself for any heinous actions made. You'd be doing us all a favour.

It's not the UN's fault that the US vetoes anything it doesn't really like, so don't take it as such.

I've already commented on this. Every nation does, but most don't casually spit in the face of the rest of the world.

Out of all people on NSG, I sense you are one of the most hatred filled person. Please take a breath. You shouldn't allow what the US does to anger you so much. That's a good way to give yourself an ulcer. Not healthy.

As you have your rights to hate America and everything we do. I have my right and the opinion to think that the UN is a wasteful and failed organization. You really shouldn't get that upset over something that petty. This is a Forum. People have the right to disagree. I have my rights to my own opinion. I just dislike this hate filled crap and talk.

Have a nice day and happy debating. :)

Oh and no I don't believe America has spit in the world's face. If anyone did any spitting it was the French Government who I dislike to the extreme levels. America has the right to defend Israel. Israel has the right to exist.

I foresee that USA will be around for quite a while. There is no doubt in my mind that the USA will be around for a very long time.

I think that China may well be on their way to becoming a SuperPower and that will be very interesting to see what happens then.

I see nothing wrong with your statements if the following does not happen:

1. The American budget continues to grow in red numbers
2. The US doesn't stop their grand foreign adventures (there is nothing wrong with minor policing actions, yet black holes such as Iraq contain too many variables to be even a remote succesfull venture. Though naturally this is hindsight)
3. Agressive economic stance towards other nations. In the 21st century the sound of coins rules supreme and mercatalism is easy way to not only destroy your own economy in the long run but also atract hostile response.

Indeed many more factors but if the USA does not fall into these pitfalls I see
no problem with the notion of the US dominating the world stage for at least the next 50 years or so.

This name was chosen for a few reasons, 1. it's make believe (as in not real) 2. I have 2 other nations too. I have a democracy and then I have 2 dictorships, one dictator who is classified as "father knows best" and the other as a "psychotic dictator" again I must emphasize that Running my 3 nations is for Fun, make believe. Therefore, has no reflection on my views nor my Love for my country.
Okay, the name thing was a dig.

For the Record: I am 29 years old. :)
All the more reason for you to think about what you're saying.

Five years ago, after September 11th, almost the entire world was on our side. People were echoing President Kennedy's famous declaration in Berlin, saying that they considered themselves Americans, too. They stood with us. When we drove the Taliban from Afghanistan and went hunting for Osama bin Laden and the people who had planned the attacks, the world stood with us. We lost that sympathy and respect when we went after Iraq. There were no WMDs. There was no connection between Saddam and 9/11. None of the reasons President Bush gave was true, except that Saddam was a dictator and he killed his own people. We have supported dictators who have done the same thing. Why, all of a sudden, did Saddam have to go?

World hegemony accomplishes nothing. Who's ever had it, really? Nations don't take turns at running the world, not in this day and age. Nations, as much as individuals, need to grow up and act as adults. That means compromise and negotiation, not grabbing things simply because you are angry, hurt or just want it.

I love my country but I think she has been led down a terribly wrong path that it will take her years to recover from.

Anyway, here endeth the lecture and the lesson.

I would like to add that if America were to fall, and that's a big if, we wouldn't be the only one to go under, many nations would be falling with us.

Thought I should mention this. :D

Afghanistan - first democracy ever. Iraq - on its way, free elections. Would be better if the Sunnis and Shittes would stop murdering each other, but that goes back to 850 AD.



I find your statements to be rather naïve due to the fact you seem to underestimate the difficulty of implimenting (american style) democracy in these nations merely by blasting them into it.

Such matters take time, resources and mostly a combination of perseverance and will. I find your statements above to be an attempt to claim victory before the real battle is even fought.

Afghanistan having a democracy? By merely holding elections doesn't make you a full fledged nation that is ruled by the voice of the majority. Have you even seen their parlement? It is filled with war criminals, warlords and corrupt offcials that hold little love for a western style democracy. In the mean time a large part of the nation is still beyond a mess with the remains of the taliban still making life miserable for the afghan population.

Iraq on it's way to become one? I fear they are getting farther and farther away from the shores of democracy each day as they slowly slide further down into civil conflict. Again, having the chance to vote doesn't make you a capable democracy, merely a state that makes an attempt and feeble one it is.

I for one do not hate the US of A. Far from it, I believe it is the best possible candidate for ohaving the role of the sole world super power. They had every right to destroy every possible cell of Al'Qaeda upon every corner of this earth. They have have done this and are still doing this. Hurrah huzzah...

But Iraq...that just makes me cynical. Weapon's of mass destruction were non-existant and even if they were then it is a inconsequent policy for there are more candidates then. (N-Korea jumps into mind)
And while I aplaud the removal of a sadistic ruler such as Saddam, I find this explanation of the US to be moot for there were ample oppertunities to topple this man in the past. Most notably after the gulf war when the US army failed to aid the Iraqi uprising. Can you blame them for being cynical of the intentions of the US now?

Again I applaud the US for being a example to world as a nation of freedom and democracy and by all means spread it for the world needs it, but not this way.

Yes it does apply to other countries, lots of them. Australia has a terrible record, Britain, Uganda, China to name but a few. This thread is about the U.S..

Yes this thread is about the US, but there's nothing wrong with broadening our scope briefly to ensure that we're not working with or relying on double standards. :)

Ah, without the US, there'd've been no D-Day.
I seem to remember operation Overlord a british plan.

THe Americans waited to be very last minute to join the war, that does not make them heros. the Heros are those who fought from the very beginning.


I'm ignoring nothing.

Expect that the real reason Germany lost was because Russia/USSR broke the western front and reached berlin on may 5th.

I foresee that USA will be around for quite a while. There is no doubt in my mind that the USA will be around for a very long time.



My very large fear is that the US will "fall" and cease to be a place of democratic freedom very soon. We seem to be moving ever closer to a new "King George".

My very large fear is that the US will "fall" and cease to be a place of democratic freedom very soon. We seem to be moving ever closer to a new "King George".

Well, I don't foresee that we will ever become a kingdom. There are far too many Americans armed. Although, our military is very strong and well armed, our Military or atleast a large portion of it would stand beside the American People.

This is one of the reasons it was put into our constitution, the right to bear arms. To prevent our government from getting too out of control.

Oh and no I don't believe America has spit in the world's face. If anyone did any spitting it was the French Government who I dislike to the extreme levels. America has the right to defend Israel. Israel has the right to exist.
Because they disagreed with the War on terrorism.

I'm very sorry your highiness, We had no idea that WW2 had caused France to be anexed into the USA!

My very large fear is that the US will "fall" and cease to be a place of democratic freedom very soon. We seem to be moving ever closer to a new "King George".

I don't think you need to worry about a new "King George." Even this administration would never think about extending him beyond his term. He'll be gone in 2009. There is work to be done, however, to cure some of the damage they've done to the country and to make sure that someone with some sense is elected in 2008.

Well, I don't foresee that we will ever become a kingdom. There are far too many Americans armed. Although, our military is very strong and well armed, our Military or atleast a large portion of it would stand beside the American People.

This is one of the reasons it was put into our constitution, the right to bear arms. To prevent our government from getting too out of control.

You think that the people are actually in control of your current government in any way?

Because they disagreed with the War on terrorism.

I'm very sorry your highiness, We had no idea that WW2 had caused France to be anexed into the USA!

It didn't actually disagree with the war on terrorism. It just didn't fall for those claims that that war had to be urgently continued in Iraq, considering that the one in Afghanistan wasn't clearly over and won yet.

Well, I don't foresee that we will ever become a kingdom. There are far too many Americans armed. Although, our military is very strong and well armed, our Military or atleast a large portion of it would stand beside the American People.

This is one of the reasons it was put into our constitution, the right to bear arms. To prevent our government from getting too out of control.

It's not a kingdom I fear. It's the ability of the president to declare Martial law, take control of the National Guard, and put our citizens in work camps (some of which have already been built and are just waiting for "workers").

It also really rubs me the wrong way (and smacks of unnecessary control over citizens) that the government is making a push to require "travel papers" for ANYONE to fly within or in/out of the US.

I guess a good way to put it (in the terms of NS) is that I fear a "father knows best" state.

I seem to remember operation Overlord a british plan.

THe Americans waited to be very last minute to join the war, that does not make them heros. the Heros are those who fought from the very beginning.




Expect that the real reason Germany lost was because Russia/USSR broke the western front and reached berlin on may 5th.

The U. S. entered the war after losing a number of freighters to German u-boats (freighters that WERE transporting weapons, food, and fuel to England) and after losing almost an entire fleet to the Japanese (except for those carriers)

I also seem to recall Operation Overlord being carried out by Dwight D. Eisenhower, an American general.

Now the real reason Germany lost WWII was not because Russia entered Berlin on May 5, 1945, but because Germany attacked Russia in the first place. Another mistake was allowing the British army to evacuate at Dunkirk. Germany had England by the balls there.

Also, don't dare imply that American soldiers were any less heroic because, truthfully, even England and France were not involved until after Warsaw fell. It does not matter who was first to stand up against Hitler, but the fact that millions did. Just because the United States did not enter the war until 1941 does not make American soldiers any less heroic than British soldiers, Russian soldiers, French and Dutch resistance fighters, or those few Poles who made it out of Poland.

Lets also not forget that, even in 1940, Americans were volunteering to help fight for Britain. The RAF even set up a squadron for them.

I seem to remember operation Overlord a british plan.

THe Americans waited to be very last minute to join the war, that does not make them heros. the Heros are those who fought from the very beginning.

You are cute. Are you a Russian?

Expect that the real reason Germany lost was because Russia/USSR broke the western front and reached berlin on may 5th.

Actually...Hitler lost the war much earlier than that. When he failed to crush the British Army at Dunkirk, when he failed to properly support Rommel in North Africa, when he shifted his focus from the UK to the USSR, when he declared war on the United States out of loyalty to Japan, when he ordered his generals to focus on Calais, when he poured resources into questionably effective "superweapons", when he dedicated the resources of the state to the mass murder of millions of people, when he redirected his SS Divisions against the Western allies in Belgium and not against the Soviets.

The list goes on and on, and your simplifying the cause of the end of the war to one single event is little more than comical mental masturbation.

I think many Europeans are naive about the current state of the world. The proliferation of Islam, nuclear technology, missile tecnology and other WMD capabilities is an historic new challenge for world peace. You can't just "hope" these issues will go away or hope that if you hunker down and act inoffensive the wolf won't eat you. There are crazy people .. c-r-a-z-y .. in Iran and North Korea and other countries whose goal is to get these and attack the West.

I also think Europeans underestimate the impact 9-11 had on the US. I live 25 miles from the tip of Manahattan. 18 parents from my church were killed that morning. You could smell the fires for a month. The financial nerve center of our country and the world was, in essence, nuked. My sister lives 10 miles from the Pentagon. The military never center of America was, in essence, nuked.

I knew that morning, somebody is getting a vicious beat down behind this. And if my president didn't do that, he would be impeached.

So what to do? Well, many people believe it is because of a cult of medieval Islamists are preaching hate and mass murder in the Middle East. Now we could go play whack-a-mole around the region, or you could hope that democratization, freedom and modern freedoms would undermine mullahs teaching religious murder, ritual rape, female oppression, etc.

Now look to today. Afghanistan - first democracy ever in its history. Iraq - on its way to a free democracy, first free elections. Would be better if the Sunnis and Shittes would stop murdering each other, but that goes back to 850 AD. The sideshow of AQ foreigners there attacking US troops? -- better there than here.

Five years and not a single terror attack on the US.

I support Bush.

I realize that some of the world doesn't like hearing Americans mention how we are the greatest nation in the world. That is precisely how I feel about my homeland. With that being said, I also mention how September is the greatest month of the year. It's the month I was born in. Does that necessarily mean it is in fact the best. No. It is simply my personal opinion. So I don't think that some in this world should blow a head gasket when they hear some Americans say that this is the best nation in the world. It is our personal opinion. We have every right to think that about our home land.

Now look to today. Afghanistan - first democracy ever in its history. Iraq - on its way to a free democracy, first free elections. Would be better if the Sunnis and Shittes would stop murdering each other, but that goes back to 850 AD. The sideshow of AQ foreigners there attacking US troops? -- better there than here.Funny. Things look a lot different from that rosy picture you just painted today. Iraq can hardly be considered on its way to a free anything. There's too much anxiety about getting killed for people to be considered free there. And it isn't just Al Qaida doing the fighting. Most of it seems to be Iraqi insurgents, last I heard. Almost without exception all of whom would never have had the funds to buy weapons in the US to start shooting people, let alone the plane ticket to make it here in the first place. Better 3000 American troops in Iraq than a single American over here, huh?

Five years and not a single terror attack on the US. But plenty of attacks in other places, that would not have occurred had it not been for Iraq. "Making the world a safer place" my ass.

I support Bush.That's not very nice :p

Saddam's genocide programmes were a thing of the past. Evil as the Husseins were. The Iraqi people are probably worse off now than they were before.

Thinking that the Iraq war has aided the cause of democracy in the Middle East is dangerously naive. Among its many disservices to the West, and to the Iraqis, it has caused Iran to become the region's #1 power.


Really? It ignored the obvious fact that few Europeans are proud of their countries' past imperialism, while the number of Americans that are proud ofm their country's imperialism is much higher.


Funny how so many US conservatives wanted intervention so badly because they couldn't see what was so obvious all along: that the money was best spent on America.


While the genocide programs were a thing of the past, which by no means assures that they cannot have been reinstated, he still tortured his people. His soccer team has stripes from his torture. They were forced to wear black suits with metal bars in the sun to burn them after a loss. Uday Hussein, shortly before he died, kidnapped a bride on her wedding day, raped her, stealing her virginity, which shamed her entire family. He, then when he was tired of raping her, burned her body with battery acid until he killed her.

I'm Christian and under most circumstances against death and killing, but some people should just die a long painful death.

Uday Hussein, shortly before he died, kidnapped a bride on her wedding day, raped her, stealing her virginity, which shamed her entire family. He, then when he was tired of raping her, burned her body with battery acid until he killed her.

I'm Christian and under most circumstances against death and killing, but some people should just die a long painful death.
Like those US Soldiers who did pretty much the same thing?

Like those US Soldiers who did pretty much the same thing?

It's a horrible thing those soldiers did. They have been courtmartialed and will now hopefully pay the price of their evil deeds.

It's a horrible thing those soldiers did. They have been courtmartialed and will now hopefully pay the price of their evil deeds.
I always said: let the Iraqis judge them. Afterall, they have experience with running court proceedings now, so hand those soldiers over to the local community court where they committed the crime.

I always said: let the Iraqis judge them. Afterall, they have experience with running court proceedings now, so hand those soldiers over to the local community court where they committed the crime.

That is actually a reasonable idea. If they were to have comitted a crime in, say, Germany, they would have to face the German court system. It is only fair and fitting that they face the court system in the country in which they committed their crime.

Which wasnt that widely used outside of Rome for a long,long time.

A system I stated was improved upon. I didnt claim Americans invented it.



Or did chamber pots never exist? Maybe it was some stylish thing?
You might have intended to post that it was a system improved upon, but that isnt what you actually posted.

And dont forget some drastic improvements on already existing inventions and systems.

We could also consider indoor plumbing, electricity and sewage/sanitation to every home.

The effect of the quoted text is to state that in addition to improvements to existing inventions and systems we could consider indoor plumbing etc. So in effect you are claiming that there are improvements to existing inventions and systems, and then additional to that set there are things such as indoor plumbing etc. If you meant that indoor plumbing (etc) were part of the set of things improved, then the use of the word 'also' was (in the context of the quote) erroneous and the cause of any resulting misunderstanding.

While I'm willing to believe you if you state that you didnt intend to indicate that indoor plumbing was a US invention (as appears to be the case) I can hardly be blamed for your inaccurate use of language.

We have plenty of culture and history. Do read a little. You may not like us but please don't say we're uncultured and have only a history of bad things (which is the implication). Not all places in the US may be as welcoming as others but in general we're a pretty decent bunch of pepole. I do get a little weary of the periodic "Why I Don't Like America" threads.
Nothing in the post you were replying to indicates that the US is uncultured. In fact suggesting the culture is problematic actually indicates the opposite. Most things need to exist in order to be problematic.

Further the post didnt (so far as I can ascertain) indicate that the entire history of the US is bad. I interpreted the post to mean that certain problems the poster percieved (in regards to the US) are related to the culture and to the histroy, not that the earlier is non-existent and the latter entirely bad.

Evidently this is a 'what do you think of the US?' thread started by a US citizen. If that wearies you, your options are to ask your fellow citizens to refrain from initiating such threads or refrain from reading and posting in them, or endure weariness.

Funny. Things look a lot different from that rosy picture you just painted today. Iraq can hardly be considered on its way to a free anything. There's too much anxiety about getting killed for people to be considered free there.

How can you say it is not on its way to a free democracy? Was it more on its way with Saddam and his evil monkey sons throwing dissidents into woodchippers and gassing villages? The government institutions are put in place. As with Japan, Germany and other countries in the past, the US isn't there to make Iraq a 51st state of an empire. We are eager for the government to handle security and we are eager to leave.

Could it have gone smoother? Yes. We underestimated things like Iranian and Syrian mischief making, and failed to seize and control some key targets in the days after the military victory.

We could have just bombed the Taliban and Saddam into dust and left the countries to their fate, but instead we stayed and try to start them on their way to free democracies -- the only ones in the region. And instead of our troops being home, they are driving around trying to keep the peace and acting as policeman and getting blown up by religious nuts.

And it isn't just Al Qaida doing the fighting. Most of it seems to be Iraqi insurgents, last I heard.

The deaths in Iraq are overwhelmingly Sunnis against Shiites and vice versa and the Kurds. How about the Kurds? One of those small pieces of news you never hear because the American liberal media in an election year is so viciously anti-Bush is that the Kurdish part of Iraq is a success story beyond all expectation.

There are no "Iraqi insurgents". There are Shittes and Sunnis who kill Americans when there are no easy Sunni/Shiite targets around. And there is "AQ in Iraq". Yes they have some young knucklehead religious nut Iraqis who think if they kill an American they will go to heaven with 72 virgins. But the head of AQ in Iraq that we smooshed a few months ago wasn't Iraqi. And neither is his successor.

(By the way, I never got the 72 virgins thing. You ever do a virgin? Virgins are a pain in the ass. Give me 36 broken in supermodels and 36 retired $1000 hookers and I could possibly be in heaven.)

Bin Laden declared war on the US, not the other way around. He then set out to blow up our ships and embassies. He then opened terrorist camps to train future crazy nutjob young murdering "martyrs". He had the money and he built a private army for a war.

Today, his funds are frozen, his camps are smooshed, he is in some hovel living in daily fear of a Tomahawk coming through the window.

Hasn't anyone ever listened to Bin Laden? His demands are not related to the US. He wants all infidels out of Saudi Arabia, an "ethnic cleansing". He wants the Saudi princes deposed, perhaps not a bad goal until you consider what Bin Laden would replace them with. He wants strict Islamic law put in place throughout the region, the fun kind where women can't drive. Or read. Or look up. Or wear non black. And the punishments are ritual rape and hands caught off in the public square. And, like Iran, he wants Israel pushed into the sea. Say what you want up or down about Israel, but "pushing them into the sea " is going to trigger "thermonuclear war".

The challenge in Iraq and Afghanistan is to slap enough modern structure, media and culture on them so their young people rebel at this religious crap the way most young Americans have. Then have these countries demographic, racial, and religious sects shift their feuds and hatreds to free democratic politics, like civilized countires do. Plenty of hate in politics for everyone :-)

I support the war in Iraq because Saddam was an evil man who needs to die. He massacred his own people. He wrongly imprisoned men, women, and children letting the die horrible deaths of all kinds of diseases full of pain. Families live everyday without any knowledge of if their loved ones are alive or dead, and if they are dead, how painful their deaths were. Saddam and his sons were sadists who enjoyed hurting people. How can we allow others to be governed that a man like that?
How can you assume that it is up to you to allow or disallow such things? I note that American citizens dont take kindly to outsiders trying to even influence their politics with so much as persuasion, so what makes the US the judge, jury and executioner in regards to other nation's leaders?

If you are objective there are many other dictators as bad as Saddam. The fact is the 'evilness' of Saddam was not the reason for the invasion, it was merely a convinient fall-back.

It is impossible to put any value on a life, and lives cannot be traded, but they can be protected. We should all protect the weak which is what we're doing in Iraq. I understand that Americans are dying because of it, but can you honestly say that the Iraqi's don't deserve protection, help, and our respect?
And the people of Darfur dont? How about the people of Zimbabwe? The fact is Saddam's treatment of his people is not the reason for the war, it wasnt even the excuse prior to the invasion. The fact is such an excuse wouldnt have stood up to international scrutiny, nor would the congress have empowered the President based on "well they really are no threat to us but their leader is a real bad bastard". I note that the Iraqis didnt deserve this respect and protection when the US was supplying Saddam with the means of slaughtering his own people.

In the past, America had no trouble protecting the world. The Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine states that "chronic wrongdoing, or an impotence that results in a general loosening of the ties of civilized society, may ultimately require intervention by some civilized nation. And in the western hemisphere, the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence, to the exercise of an international police power.” Basically, its out duty to help those whose governments are out of control.
A specious argument. The worst of Saddam's wrong-doings occured over a decade ago. The US barely blinked. If this was an adequate reason for going to war, then it instead of 'clear and present threat to the US' would have been cited. It wasnt an adequate reason (especially all these years after the worst abuses) and the Bush knew this damm well. Hence all the malarcky about WMD.

The problem with drumming up after the event excuses when the falsity of the initial excuse has been proven is that it is just that, an excuse. The fact that the US is prepared to invade other countries using untrue reasons, and then simply drum up excuses after the event, is a worry to every other nation on earth, or at least the non-nuclear ones....notice the speed with which the other two 'axis of evil' nations changed their status in that regard making the world a more dangerous place for everyone.

How can you say it is not on its way to a free democracy? Quite simply: There is too much violence for people to be free.
Was it more on its way with Saddam and his evil monkey sons throwing dissidents into woodchippers and gassing villages? Not any more than it is now.
The government institutions are put in place. As with Japan, Germany and other countries in the past, the US isn't there to make Iraq a 51st state of an empire. We are eager for the government to handle security and we are eager to leave.The US forces didn't leave Germany until '94, just so you know. And that's not counting the ones that are still there today, that's just when the "occupation" ended. I'm not saying the US is making Iraq a 51st state. I am saying that we botched things and I was one of the people saying we would. The fact that things turned out as bad as predicted is bittersweet with all the bloodshed.

Could it have gone smoother? Yes. We underestimated things like Iranian and Syrian mischief making, and failed to seize and control some key targets in the days after the military victory.Sure, Iran and Syria are the only ones to blame. Perhaps an overestimation of how troops would be received or how peaceful the Iraqi ethnic groups were?

We could have just bombed the Taliban and Saddam into dust and left the countries to their fate, but instead we stayed and try to start them on their way to free democracies -- the only ones in the region. And instead of our troops being home, they are driving around trying to keep the peace and acting as policeman and getting blown up by religious nuts.Well, mustn't forget Israel. They are in the region afterall.
Iraq served no purpose and the liberation has pretty much failed completely. The question whether there would have been less suffering from the populace if Saddam had never been ousted is valid, since democratization hasn't been achieved and from the looks of things, may never be.
I supported the Afghanistan incursion, and I still do to some degree. That was were the terrorist training camps were located. But apparently, someone botched here again and now the Taliban are resurging. The government pretty much only rules Kabul and the few areas where there is a strong NATO prescence, and sometimes not even those. That's not much of a democracy.

The deaths in Iraq are overwhelmingly Sunnis against Shiites and vice versa and the Kurds. How about the Kurds? One of those small pieces of news you never hear because the American liberal media in an election year is so viciously anti-Bush is that the Kurdish part of Iraq is a success story beyond all expectation.I don't watch American media. If it isn't infotainment catering a sensationalist audience, its catering a conservative audience.

There are no "Iraqi insurgents". There are Shittes and Sunnis who kill Americans when there are no easy Sunni/Shiite targets around. And there is "AQ in Iraq". Yes they have some young knucklehead religious nut Iraqis who think if they kill an American they will go to heaven with 72 virgins. But the head of AQ in Iraq that we smooshed a few months ago wasn't Iraqi. And neither is his successor. I never said there wasn't any Al Qaida involvement in Iraq. I said it wasn't the only one, and as far as I know, not even the predominant one. The US military's Anti-Zarqawi campaign may have led people (quite possibly even potential terrorist recruits) believe otherwise.

(By the way, I never got the 72 virgins thing. You ever do a virgin? Virgins are a pain in the ass. Give me 36 broken in supermodels and 36 retired $1000 hookers and I could possibly be in heaven.) Must be winter in Norway and Michigan, because I agree :D

Bin Laden declared war on the US, not the other way around. He then set out to blow up our ships and embassies. He then opened terrorist camps to train future crazy nutjob young murdering "martyrs". He had the money and he built a private army for a war.Yup, and he couldn't be found in Iraq.

The challenge in Iraq and Afghanistan is to slap enough modern structure, media and culture on them so their young people rebel at this religious crap the way most young Americans have. Then have these countries demographic, racial, and religious sects shift their feuds and hatreds to free democratic politics, like civilized countires do. Plenty of hate in politics for everyone :-)That's not going to work. As we can see, it's gotten young people to rebel in the UK and Spain.

Although I find no reason to doubt the accuracy of your list, I'm afraid that I find your statement (as quoted above) to be rather lacking.

It was, and intentionally so.

I hope you can agree with me that when supplying people with facts then the correct (academic) thing to do would be to give us a source along with it.

I do agree, but I wanted to determine if any opposition to the list was because it promoted the US or because it was found to factually inaccurate. I wanted to learn the motivation behind the opposition first.

I can understand you might feel attacked but seeing as you think yourself in the right here then I assume you shouldn't fear accusations of supplying false information.

I do not fear such accusations. I found a source online and posted some of what was on it.

That source was;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_inventions

I seem to remember operation Overlord a british plan.

As I recall it was.

What of it?

Without the US, it would have been a fantasy up until Germany either invaded or forced Britain to sign a peace. On German terms.

Expect that the real reason Germany lost was because Russia/USSR broke the western front and reached berlin on may 5th.

Ah, the Western Front was formed by the Allies AFTER D-Day. Had there been no D-Day, there would have been no Western Front and Germany would not have had to split her forces and logistics between two fronts.

Further, without the US, Japan would've been scratching on the Soviet's backdoor, putting them in the two-front hot seat. It would've been too hot for them, I believe.

Quite simply: There is too much violence for people to be free.

That is nice and jingoistic. So what were your choices? Leave Saddam in place despite his ignoring of the UN resolutions that ended his previous war of aggression?

I am saying that we botched things and I was one of the people saying we would. The fact that things turned out as bad as predicted is bittersweet with all the bloodshed.

We underestimated the sectarian violence, the Iranian and Syrian meddling, and the timeline for nation building. the bloodshed is regrettable but, say, a fraction of the Korean War (maybe 3,000 to 60,000 US deaths, sometihng like that.

South Korea seems to be a better country that North Korea. Or was that war not worth it either?

Sure, Iran and Syria are the only ones to blame. Perhaps an overestimation of how troops would be received or how peaceful the Iraqi ethnic groups were?

Easy to throw rocks. What do you suggest happens now?

[QUOTE]Well, mustn't forget Israel. They are in the region afterall.
Iraq served no purpose and the liberation has pretty much failed completely. The question whether there would have been less suffering from the populace if Saddam had never been ousted is valid, since democratization hasn't been achieved and from the looks of things, may never be.
I supported the Afghanistan incursion, and I still do to some degree. That was were the terrorist training camps were located. But apparently, someone botched here again and now the Taliban are resurging.

It sounds like you support success and are against tribulation, but you may reconsider supporting success if there is some subsequent tribulation.

Brave stance!

You think that the people are actually in control of your current government in any way?

Yes.

The election of 2006 demonstrates that FACT handily.

It's not a kingdom I fear. It's the ability of the president to declare Martial law, take control of the National Guard, and put our citizens in work camps (some of which have already been built and are just waiting for "workers").

OK, this is about the most ridiculous load of bantha poodoo I've seen in almost any forumm I frequent.

Is your tin-foil hat properly fitted?

It also really rubs me the wrong way (and smacks of unnecessary control over citizens) that the government is making a push to require "travel papers" for ANYONE to fly within or in/out of the US.

Why?

What is wrong with passports? They've been around for a long time.

Or, should we just let the Mohammed Attas of the world travel here willy-nilly?

Yes.

The election of 2006 demonstrates that FACT handily.

Yet he still has another two years, pmsl that works.

Like those US Soldiers who did pretty much the same thing?

Yup.

And, they will be punished for it.

Uday did it as a matter of state policy.

You DO see the difference, don't you?

Yet he still has another two years, pmsl that works.

Big deal.

You must not have ever read the US Constitution.

The President does not make law, Congress does. All the President can do is veto legislation. But, if Congress really wants the bill to become law, they can override his veto. Then, the bill becomes law, despite the President's wishes.

The President is a weak position. He can be strong militarily, but that military can be cut off at the knees by Congress by removing funding. The Constitution only requires the funding of the Navy; the Army and Air Force must be reapproved every two years.

The President has virtually zero domestic power, except that given him by Congress. If he has been given too much, it is the fault of Congress and, by extension, the People.

I do hope that your post was humorous.

In the case it wasn't:

Until needed, most of the world hates the US. But, who is called upon when things really get tough?
Who was called in 1917? 1939?

Called WHO?
1917: the US joined the Entente forces because they feared that the Empires could win in Europe. Not because ANYONE called them in 1917. France called them in 1915 but the US didn't flinch. Also, in WW1 a large minority called for US intervention AGAINST Britain and France. Read some history, you'll find that.
1939: if you claim that someone called the US in 1939 (and that's false), it took the US 26 months of war and a direct attack to their territory to make them declare war against the Axis. So, please, don't go around vaunting what you did in your own interest as selfless help to Europe. And remember that it was only because of a 4 votes difference at the US Senate (check US Senate library) that the Lend-and-Lease act wasn't made in favour of the Axis (year 1940, I think).
Unless you claim that things got tough just when more than 100 americans die, that is. Tens of thousands of dead French, Poles, Britons, Soviets, Jugoslavs, and Jews from assorted countries, didn't make the situation "tough" to the US, as your sentence states.


Heck, who was called to take out that world threatening dictator who may have taken over the entire world known as Milosevic?

You're joking right? Slobo trying to take over the world? Slobo was a nationalist (moderate nationalist, if compared to the CURRENT leadership of Serbia) and a corrupt leader, but no world threat. Anyway:
1.Mr Holbrook (US vice-secretary of state at the time) stated (in 1996 iirc) that Slobo was the only leader in the Balkans who was willing to go through diplomacy.
2.In 1999, 40% of the cities in Jugoslavia were ruled by political parties that were at the opposition in the Jugoslav national parliament. Call this a dictatorship now.
3.There were no other countries involved in the NATO (NATO, not US) attack on Jugoslavia, you mean? I don't think so. Check facts before posting next time.
4.And Slobo was removed from power by the Serbs themselves, not by US or NATO troops. And he was given to the International War Crimes Court - that isn't supported by the US, as the US government denies the International Court the power to charge US citizens and soldiers for war crimes.


So, everyone hates us. Everyone has always hated us. Probably, everyone will always hate us. Until they need us.

Oh poor kids, hated by ev'ryone. Remember that if Louis XVI hadn't dispatched La Fayette to America, you'd still drive on the left side today.

I think many Europeans are naive about the current state of the world. The proliferation of Islam, nuclear technology, missile tecnology and other WMD capabilities is an historic new challenge for world peace. You can't just "hope" these issues will go away or hope that if you hunker down and act inoffensive the wolf won't eat you. There are crazy people .. c-r-a-z-y .. in Iran and North Korea and other countries whose goal is to get these and attack the West.

I also think Europeans underestimate the impact 9-11 had on the US. I live 25 miles from the tip of Manahattan. 18 parents from my church were killed that morning. You could smell the fires for a month. The financial nerve center of our country and the world was, in essence, nuked. My sister lives 10 miles from the Pentagon. The military never center of America was, in essence, nuked.

I knew that morning, somebody is getting a vicious beat down behind this. And if my president didn't do that, he would be impeached.

So what to do? Well, many people believe it is because of a cult of medieval Islamists are preaching hate and mass murder in the Middle East. Now we could go play whack-a-mole around the region, or you could hope that democratization, freedom and modern freedoms would undermine mullahs teaching religious murder, ritual rape, female oppression, etc.

Now look to today. Afghanistan - first democracy ever in its history. Iraq - on its way to a free democracy, first free elections. Would be better if the Sunnis and Shittes would stop murdering each other, but that goes back to 850 AD. The sideshow of AQ foreigners there attacking US troops? -- better there than here.

Five years and not a single terror attack on the US.

I support Bush.

There may be crazy people in Korea and Iran but that is still not as scary as having a madman as the president of the most powerful nation on earth. Bush has used the excuse of furthering democracy and removing dictators to gain more oil for America and allow the US to control the Middle East.
Also, remember that although there has not been a single terror attack in the USA, there has been on American troops in the Middle East and on other countries such as Britain and Spain. Also, there was a plot to blow up British planes overAmerican cities only months ago. If you support Bush because you feel safer you don't seem to have much understaning over how much more dangerous the world is now becuase of his Iraq policy.

I do hope that your post was humorous.

Parts were.

They seemed to have escaped you.

You're joking right? Slobo trying to take over the world?

Sarcasm to be exact.

If Milosevic was such a non-event, why bother crying to the US?

Oh, right, NATO.

The US controls NATO, but don't let that stop you...

Remember that if Louis XVI hadn't dispatched La Fayette to America, you'd still drive on the left side today.

Ha!

The only reason France aided us was as an attempt to deprive Britain of the colonies. Louis full and well intended to simply replace Britain as the colony's overlord. To that end, France would deny much needed loans to further the Cause so as to keep the colonies under control.

Fortunately, Denmark came through for us and provided monies when others woud not.

Denmark was our true ally, not France.

Okay, the name thing was a dig.


All the more reason for you to think about what you're saying.

Five years ago, after September 11th, almost the entire world was on our side. People were echoing President Kennedy's famous declaration in Berlin, saying that they considered themselves Americans, too. They stood with us. When we drove the Taliban from Afghanistan and went hunting for Osama bin Laden and the people who had planned the attacks, the world stood with us. We lost that sympathy and respect when we went after Iraq. There were no WMDs. There was no connection between Saddam and 9/11. None of the reasons President Bush gave was true, except that Saddam was a dictator and he killed his own people. We have supported dictators who have done the same thing. Why, all of a sudden, did Saddam have to go?

World hegemony accomplishes nothing. Who's ever had it, really? Nations don't take turns at running the world, not in this day and age. Nations, as much as individuals, need to grow up and act as adults. That means compromise and negotiation, not grabbing things simply because you are angry, hurt or just want it.

I love my country but I think she has been led down a terribly wrong path that it will take her years to recover from.

Anyway, here endeth the lecture and the lesson.

The Iraq war could possibly be the start of America's fall from power and replacement as the world's superpower by China. America has no control over China, Europe is turning against it and Iran is untouchable due to the oil it sells to China. China is spreading its influence whilst America's influence and respect seems to shrink every day.