NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is a link to a report written for the Council on Foreign Relations months before the war in Iraq. It comes from the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University and is authored by the following:

Edward P. Djerejian is the founding director of the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice Universityand serves as the Robert and Janice McNair chair in public policy and as the Edward A. and Hermena Hancock Kelly university chair for senior scholars. He has also served as deputy assistant secretary of Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs.

Frank G. Wisner is vice chairman of external affairs at American International Group. He previously served in a number of senior positions in the U.S. government, including undersecretary of defense for policy from 1993-94, and undersecretary of state for international security affairs from 1992-93.

Rachel Bronson is senior fellow and director of Middle East and Gulf studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. Prior to the Council she was a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and Harvard University’s Center for Science and International Affairs, a consultant for the Center for Naval Analyses, and an adjunct professor at Columbia University.

Andrew S. Weiss is a strategist for AIG Trading Group, Inc., part of American International Group, Inc.

The amazing thing about this report is that most of the serious mistakes that Rummy and George made are warned against in this report. Here's a synopsis followed by a link to the actual report for those who like to actually read things.

As we gain perspective on the initial postwar period in Iraq, a conventional wisdom has formed about key mistakes the U.S. government made in the early months of the occupation. This prescient and essential report, written several months before the war, predicted many of the challenges the United States would face in the post-war period and offers several perceptive and useful recommendations that have been ignored by the Bush administration. Read now, this report is a stunning rejoinder to those who would argue that the problems experienced in Iraq were unforeseeable.

The authors, who include two distinguished diplomats, address many of the issues that have proven problematic in Iraq, including providing adequate security, transferring power to Iraqis in a way that is seen as legitimate, and capitalizing on Iraq’s oil reserves. The report counsels against disbanding the Iraqi army--for which the Bush administration has been heavily criticized--instead proposing that the uppermost leadership be removed while maintaining intact the bulk of Iraq’s military. With respect to governing Iraq, the panel cautions against imposing a post-conflict government dominated by exiled Iraqi opposition leaders, advice ignored by the Bush administration as it fashioned a transitional consultative body--the Iraqi Governing Council--stacked with Iraqi exiles who were viewed by ordinary Iraqis as largely unrepresentative. Bolstering the production of oil has been a real challenge for the occupation, and the report offers a number of suggestions for how best to accomplish that, including allowing Iraqis to maintain control of the oil sector, spending a significant amount early in the occupation to rehabilitate Iraq’s decaying oil industry, and sharing oil profits equally among Iraqis.

Perhaps the greatest difficulty the United States has faced in Iraq has been contending with skepticism about America’s motives among Iraqis and others in the region. The panel asserts that U.S. efforts must be accompanied by a vigorous public-diplomacy campaign in the Middle East and the Muslim world to deflate criticism in the region and deny terrorists and extremists the ability to use military action to their own political advantage. The Bush administration did in fact launch a public-diplomacy campaign, but it has been largely rhetorical and half-hearted, undercutting America’s efforts to win Iraqi hearts and minds amid a bloody insurgency. It didn’t have to be this way. This report shows why.

Full report:

http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/Post-War_Iraq.pdf

The Bush administration was driven by naive ideology and corporate interests, with little care for reality or military expertise.

There were conflicting schools of military thought which were at play in shaping our foreign policy. In retrospect, it might have been slightly unwise to send "insufficient troops." However, it is possible that Iraq might have been worse off today had we launched an assault with a greater amount of troops. Who knows? I personally believe that Rumsfeld made the correct choice; he offered the Iraqis a perfect chance at freedom, but the Iranians and assorted terrorists implicitly declared war on the US by attacking that nascent democracy. I believe we would have won had we not shown any restraint but rather nuked Tehran and Damascus.

There were conflicting schools of military thought which were at play in shaping our foreign policy. In retrospect, it might have been slightly unwise to send "insufficient troops." However, it is possible that Iraq might have been worse off today had we launched an assault with a greater amount of troops. Who knows? I personally believe that Rumsfeld made the correct choice; he offered the Iraqis a perfect chance at freedom, but the Iranians and assorted terrorists implicitly declared war on the US by attacking that nascent democracy. I believe we would have won had we not shown any restraint but rather nuked Tehran and Damascus.

See, when I call you a cartoon that's what I'm talking about. You didn't address a single point in the OP. Levels of troops wasn't even mentioned in the OP. It's useless to debate with you because you don't even address the points in the post.

I believe we would have won had we not shown any restraint but rather nuked Tehran and Damascus.

Way to win hearts and minds:rolleyes:

See, when I call you a cartoon that's what I'm talking about. You didn't address a single point in the OP. Levels of troops wasn't even mentioned in the OP. It's useless to debate with you because you don't even address the points in the post.

I didn't bother to read the whole post -- I just assumed that's what it was about. Many people do that to my topics, too.

I didn't bother to read the whole post -- I just assumed that's what it was about. Many people do that to my topics, too.


I see, so if somebody else does something uncouth or stupid, that justifies you doing it? Impeccable logic, as per usual.

Besides, your topics are more or less devoid of content, so people can get away with it with you.

I believe we would have won had we not shown any restraint but rather nuked Tehran and Damascus.

So we nuke two countries we never planned to invade...thus emboldening those who already hate the U.S. and causing the Middle East to set aside its differences, at least temporarily, and join forces to bring down the U.S. We have World War III on our hands, big time, and a lot of our allies would have said, "Forget it, USA, you're on your own here." And we would assuredly either lose or sustain great losses in a victory that sure as hell isn't worth it.

Nuking Baghdad I could see...if they really pissed us off. A simple carpet-bombing should do the trick there, though. Or here's an even better idea - leave Iraq the hell alone, wait for Saddam to kick off (or maybe try to kick-start a native uprising against him by dropping, I don't know, food) and then try to work with everyone after that. It requires fewer troops, makes fewer people pissed at us, and it might not end up in a theocracy. Hell, Kurdistan might just be our bestest buddies after that.

But now we done fucked up. Launching nukes at this point is about the worst thing we can do.

I didn't bother to read the whole post -- I just assumed that's what it was about. Many people do that to my topics, too.

Okay, go ahead. Prove to me you're not a cartoon conservative. Actualy read the post, dissect it and refute or agree with it point by point. Even better, click the link and read the report. Critique it. Prove to me that you're not just Karl Rove's wet dream. Prove to this forum that you actually think about things rather than going through life parroting everything you read in the RNC strategy guide.

I didn't bother to read the whole post -- I just assumed that's what it was about. Many people do that to my topics, too.

Yes, because we know the joke now, and its gotten old.

As to the OP - it was arrogance.

Okay, go ahead. Prove to me you're not a cartoon conservative. Actualy read the post, dissect it and refute or agree with it point by point. Even better, click the link and read the report. Critique it. Prove to me that you're not just Karl Rove's wet dream. Prove to this forum that you actually think about things rather than going through life parroting everything you read in the RNC strategy guide.

I guess not.

I guess not.

Someone check Tehran and Damascus and see if they're still standing.

"And our top news story, Tehran and Damascus are no longer on the map. Though the U.S. military is denying the authorization of the nuclear destruction of the two Middle Eastern cities, it seems a rogue American without a pilot's license borrowed an Air Force jet, put three nuclear bombs in it, and droppe one on Damascus, Syria, and the other on Tehran, Iran. The third bomb is still unaccounted for."

"Late-breaking news bulletin. The unlicensed pilot of the destructive airplane that destroyed Tehran and Damascus was piloted by a young teenager named Joe Blow. When he was captured after landing in unfamiliar territory, he announced that he prefers to go by the name 'MeansToAnEnd' and believed that nuking Tehran and Damascus would bring peace to the Middle East. It was later revealed that, about the time MeansToAnEnd landed, the Iranian and Syrian governments declared war on the United States, as did several other Islamic governments, including Saudi Arabia. Presently, all American military forces in Saudi Arabia are being held hostage."

"The fate of the one known as 'MeansToAnEnd' has just been revealed. He landed in Turkmenistan with an unexploded nuclear bomb. He was extradited to Saudi Arabia, where Syria's remaining government officials presently reside, and is being put on trial for war crimes. The last update about the nuclear bomb was that the president of Turkmenistan saw it and took it back to his palace, declaring, 'I shall call you Eduardo.' He then revised his book to include a chapter about it and named one of the months of the year 'Unexploded Nuclear Bomb.' Now if you'll excuse me, I need a beer."

I'm so going to hell for this post, but whatever.

The mistakes made with Iraq from the outset were due to the arrogance of such unilateral thinking that embraced the concept that when the US was to go rolling into Baghdad with her tanks that the Iraqis would greet them as liberators.

We know Hussein was an asshole, but, he was their asshole. Even if they didn't like his stranglehold on power, the fact that a foreign power just decided to take over left a foul taste in their mouths.

No, it was a mistake due to the sheer arrogance that everyone in the world wants to be like America.

Someone check Tehran and Damascus and see if they're still standing.

"And our top news story, Tehran and Damascus are no longer on the map. Though the U.S. military is denying the authorization of the nuclear destruction of the two Middle Eastern cities, it seems a rogue American without a pilot's license borrowed an Air Force jet, put three nuclear bombs in it, and droppe one on Damascus, Syria, and the other on Tehran, Iran. The third bomb is still unaccounted for."

"Late-breaking news bulletin. The unlicensed pilot of the destructive airplane that destroyed Tehran and Damascus was piloted by a young teenager named Joe Blow. When he was captured after landing in unfamiliar territory, he announced that he prefers to go by the name 'MeansToAnEnd' and believed that nuking Tehran and Damascus would bring peace to the Middle East. It was later revealed that, about the time MeansToAnEnd landed, the Iranian and Syrian governments declared war on the United States, as did several other Islamic governments, including Saudi Arabia. Presently, all American military forces in Saudi Arabia are being held hostage."

"The fate of the one known as 'MeansToAnEnd' has just been revealed. He landed in Turkmenistan with an unexploded nuclear bomb. He was extradited to Saudi Arabia, where Syria's remaining government officials presently reside, and is being put on trial for war crimes. The last update about the nuclear bomb was that the president of Turkmenistan saw it and took it back to his palace, declaring, 'I shall call you Eduardo.' He then revised his book to include a chapter about it and named one of the months of the year 'Unexploded Nuclear Bomb.' Now if you'll excuse me, I need a beer."

I'm so going to hell for this post, but whatever.

Where is he now? Guantonamo? :confused:

Where is he now? Guantonamo? :confused:

Riyadh, probably. Remember, the story has him extradited to Saudi Arabia, which also declares war on the U.S. He'll wish he was in Gitmo.

Riyadh, probably. Remember, the story has him extradited to Saudi Arabia, which also declares war on the U.S. He'll wish he was in Gitmo.

Phew. :)

Riyadh, probably. Remember, the story has him extradited to Saudi Arabia, which also declares war on the U.S. He'll wish he was in Gitmo.
I vote we put him in a nice smouldering crater, where he's tied to a chair and brainwashed so he thinks like a 'liberal'.. BWAHAHAHAHA!

I vote we put him in a nice smouldering crater, where he's tied to a chair and brainwashed so he thinks like a 'liberal'.. BWAHAHAHAHA!

Only if we can record it for international TV. You know, to appease the ones who are in it for financial gain...and make a few bucks ourselves.

Only if we can record it for international TV. You know, to appease the ones who are in it for financial gain...and make a few bucks ourselves.
Deal! To make it even better, we'll have the chair over a tank filled with alligators with the annoying host from Fear Factor giving us play by play!

Deal! To make it even better, we'll have the chair over a tank filled with alligators with the annoying host from Fear Factor giving us play by play!

Ooh, ooh, can we make him eat cockroaches and drink that horse-piss stuff from Borat? Can we? Huh? **stops acting like I've had too much sugar, though I probably have**

Ooh, ooh, can we make him eat cockroaches and drink that horse-piss stuff from Borat? Can we? Huh? **stops acting like I've had too much sugar, though I probably have**
Ok, but they've got to be live cockroaches!

~ acting like I've had too much sugar, though I probably have ~

There is no such thing as too much sugar, there is merely lack of counter-crunchees.

Ok, but they've got to be live cockroaches!

And in the same tank with a bunch of scorpions. And tarantulas.

There is no such thing as too much sugar, there is merely lack of counter-crunchees.

Lemme see if I have room in my sig for that one...

And in the same tank with a bunch of scorpions. And tarantulas.
Hmm... sound good, but not slimy enough. It's needs to be slimy in case he starts showing he beyond salvation...

Lemme see if I have room in my sig for that one...

Yay! :D

*passes munchees*

Hmm... sound good, but not slimy enough. It's needs to be slimy in case he starts showing he beyond salvation...

Well, we can put him in a bunch of slime and cover the floor in Crisco...oh yeah, and make him wear fly paper over his hair. And just over the edges are his favorite foods and drinks, out of his reach...if he goes for them, he flies into the alligator pits.

Well, we can put him in a bunch of slime and cover the floor in Crisco...oh yeah, and make him wear fly paper over his hair. And just over the edges are his favorite foods and drinks, out of his reach...if he goes for them, he flies into the alligator pits.

I like! So deliciously evil! You've earned yourself a weasel seal of approval!

I like! So deliciously evil! You've earned yourself a weasel seal of approval!

MWAHAHAHAHA!! **rushes off to begin production immediately**

MWAHAHAHAHA!! **rushes off to begin production immediately**
Eto... uh... Hmmm... you forgot your munchees!

Eto... uh... Hmmm... you forgot your munchees!

Ahem, yes...**grabs munchees** **pours pure sugar down my throat and hands production off to some unknown weirdo** **dsicovers that weirdo turned my idea into a reality show about teenagers in Orange County** **ah, shit**

Ahem, yes...**grabs munchees** **pours pure sugar down my throat and hands production off to some unknown weirdo** **dsicovers that weirdo turned my idea into a reality show about teenagers in Orange County** **ah, shit**
*sits looking like a confused weasel*

...

*her whiskers twitch and she sniffs the unknown moron and hisses*

*sits looking like a confused weasel*

...

*her whiskers twitch and she sniffs the unknown moron and hisses*

**shouts at unknown weirdo with my moth full of munchees**

**gets a serious sugar buzz and passes out**