NationStates Jolt Archive

So we had always believed that individual Imperial Stormtroopers in Star Wars were individual recruits. On the other hand, the events in the Prequels strongly imply that they were Jango clones.

A good friend of mine tells me that they started out as all clones, but as the clones themselves could not be replaced, they were gradually replaced by incorporating regular recruits. He's read several novels and comic adaptations, so that seems likely, but what do you guys think/know?

I think your friend is right.

The cannon fodder stormtroopers we see in the original trilogy would be recruits, that's why they have different voices, and generally suck.

Yeah, what your freind said. They started out as the clone army then active recruitment began to take over.

I'd agree with your friend.


Oh, and Hail the Lady;)

Well, your friend is probably right. That's how the game Star Wars: Battlefront II tells it. The original unit, the 521st, or Vader's Fist, were Jango clones. Later they added in normal guys as well. (I know too much, ne?)

Well that makes plenty of sense. I guess I just wish somehow they'd clarified that in the films. There are die-hards out there who accept nothing as cannon unless it is in the movies themselves.

Yep, your friends right. But there was the issue of a height requirement...go figure. Later on, about oh...say ten years, some of the clones started dying and rather than make new ones from Koamino (spelling?!?) or using the Emperor's personal cloning facility, they just started recruiting or kidnapping people.


Queen Aslein:p

Well, your friend is probably right. That's how the game Star Wars: Battlefront II tells it. The original unit, the 521st, or Vader's Fist, were Jango clones. Later they added in normal guys as well. (I know too much, ne?)
Nitpick: It's the 501st.

But yeah, the idea of stormtroopers being clones supplemented by recruits is a very common sense one. As an example, I remember this one comic where there was a story about the guy that got blasted by Leia just before her capture and his life before that. He was thinking of joining the Rebellion, sad to say.

well, there is an Imperial Academy, (mentioned in ST:ANH) Wedge, Tycho, Biggs and Han were supposidly students there.

makes sense that they would replace the Clones with non clones.

Tho I don't know why they couldn't make more since the planet that made the original clones is still out there.

well, there is an Imperial Academy, (mentioned in ST:ANH) Wedge, Tycho, Biggs and Han were supposidly students there.

makes sense that they would replace the Clones with non clones.

Tho I don't know why they couldn't make more since the planet that made the original clones is still out there.

those who make the first Clone Army made there own Clone Army to fight the Emperors Clone Army

"aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

I can only imagine what went through Boba Fett's mind as he stepped aboard the Star Destroyer and found himself surrounded by ten thousand of his dead dad.

edit: for more amusing commentaries on Star Trek (ep 3 in particular) http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/ep3spoilers.html

I can only imagine what went through Boba Fett's mind as he stepped aboard the Star Destroyer and found himself surrounded by ten thousand clones of his dead dad.

Never happened. By then, the stormtroopers were almost all recruits.

I can only imagine what went through Boba Fett's mind as he stepped aboard the Star Destroyer and found himself surrounded by ten thousand clones of his dead dad.

he was a Clone of his dead Dad

he was a Clone of his dead Dad
"Of course I look like my dad... I'm a Frakkin CLONE!"

So we had always believed that individual Imperial Stormtroopers in Star Wars were individual recruits. On the other hand, the events in the Prequels strongly imply that they were Jango clones.

A good friend of mine tells me that they started out as all clones, but as the clones themselves could not be replaced, they were gradually replaced by incorporating regular recruits. He's read several novels and comic adaptations, so that seems likely, but what do you guys think/know?No clue, but I do remember Leia asking Luke if he was a bit young to join the troopers. Your scenario is most likely.

im pleased to find this thread was not about nazi troopers. besides SW is much more interesting. and yeah, your friend is correct, besides how else could they suck so much, from the ARC troopers, heh.

those who make the first Clone Army made there own Clone Army to fight the Emperors Clone Army

which is another stupid idea. since they "improved" each clone, why not make superclones, and a virus keyed to the stormies genetic structure. wipe out an army with one bug!

which is another stupid idea. since they "improved" each clone, why not make superclones, and a virus keyed to the stormies genetic structure. wipe out an army with one bug!

who knows why they did not do that

Whatever the case, the stormtroopers in episdoes IV, V, and VI have the WORST aim in the world. Contrast to the "new" trilogy, when they managed to mow down almost all the Republic's Jedi knights.

Question: I somewhat remember something saying that Jango was adopted by Mandalorians. Is this right, or did I just make that up?

Question: I somewhat remember something saying that Jango was adopted by Mandalorians. Is this right, or did I just make that up?

Actually, many people have speculated that, based on the design of his armour, Jango is actually one of the last of the Mandalorians himself.

Question: I somewhat remember something saying that Jango was adopted by Mandalorians. Is this right, or did I just make that up?

He was a Mandalorian.

http://www.jivemagazine.com/column.php?pid=3381

So we had always believed that individual Imperial Stormtroopers in Star Wars were individual recruits. On the other hand, the events in the Prequels strongly imply that they were Jango clones.

A good friend of mine tells me that they started out as all clones, but as the clones themselves could not be replaced, they were gradually replaced by incorporating regular recruits. He's read several novels and comic adaptations, so that seems likely, but what do you guys think/know?
Didn't the cloners of Kamino specify that the batch to be used in the clone wars was only "The first batch"?

"aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

Exactly. This combined with the implication there were plenty more batches of clones on the way leads me to believe that Stormtroopers are either entirely, or predominantly clones. If they accept recruits, they would have to be human and of the same height (which sounds unlikely for a regime not based upon racial superiority.

So we had always believed that individual Imperial Stormtroopers in Star Wars were individual recruits. On the other hand, the events in the Prequels strongly imply that they were Jango clones.

A good friend of mine tells me that they started out as all clones, but as the clones themselves could not be replaced, they were gradually replaced by incorporating regular recruits. He's read several novels and comic adaptations, so that seems likely, but what do you guys think/know?
I'm pretty sure the stormies are all clones but their templates were diversified to a few hundred or maybe even thousand after a while. Recruits go to Imperial Army.

Exactly. This combined with the implication there were plenty more batches of clones on the way leads me to believe that Stormtroopers are either entirely, or predominantly clones. If they accept recruits, they would have to be human and of the same height (which sounds unlikely for a regime not based upon racial superiority.)Which is why I hated the first three episodes.

Everything from chapter 4 to the books all indicated that the Empire treated non humans as scum, slaves, and not to be trusted. yet in the first three episodes, they just blew that outta the water.

well, there is an Imperial Academy, (mentioned in ST:ANH) Wedge, Tycho, Biggs and Han were supposidly students there.

makes sense that they would replace the Clones with non clones.

Tho I don't know why they couldn't make more since the planet that made the original clones is still out there.

I think that the Imperial academy was for pilots, not Stormtroopers. It would appear that anyone in the modified clone army uniform of white PCB would probably be a clone, whereas officers and specialists are probably recruits/conscripts.

I think that the Imperial academy was for pilots, not Stormtroopers. It would appear that anyone in the modified clone army uniform of white PCB would probably be a clone, whereas officers and specialists are probably recruits/conscripts.

highly unlikely. it would take years of training or intense experience to become an officer. and remember Episode 3, they had Clone Pilots as well as officers.

Which is why I hated the first three episodes.

Everything from chapter 4 to the books all indicated that the Empire treated non humans as scum, slaves, and not to be trusted. yet in the first three episodes, they just blew that outta the water.
How do the first 3 movies go against the ideology of non humans as scum?
The Academy was for pilots and officers, IIRC. At some point the cloning cylinders got blown up, maybe with DSII, and the stormtroopers did eventually become recruits in the books.

Which is why I hated the first three episodes.

Everything from chapter 4 to the books all indicated that the Empire treated non humans as scum, slaves, and not to be trusted. yet in the first three episodes, they just blew that outta the water.
Yeah, I dunno. I prefer a tyrannical regime not based upon special superiority. It makes them much more appealing. Also, I rationalise to myself that the only reason the books indicated that the empire was racist/specieist was because in the movies the Imperial forces consisted only of humans. I further rationalise that the only reason the Imperial forcs consisted of humans was because aliens looked stupid in the 80s (being made largely of oversised rubber suits). However, if George intended to have it that wa all along, then my rationalisation is bunk. I think he would have included them if he had the tech he does now, especially seeing as the empire was forged from the galactic republic consensually.

highly unlikely. it would take years of training or intense experience to become an officer. and remember Episode 3, they had Clone Pilots as well as officers. Right, but all of the clone officers and pilots still war the PCB outfit. Plus I think it was established that the clones were better than droids, but not as good as normal humans in their abilities. Jacks of all trades, but masters of none, if you will. I can see every reason why the empire would recruit all of the ace pilots of the colonies to boost their capabilites, and form 'special ops' units (not unlike USA with the GIs, then all of the endless 'special forces'). The officers.. well as we saw they had a high 'turnover' rate, especially when stationed under Vader :p. I think the officers may have been taken from existing armies of the various member states of the galactic republic. Possibly they may also be put into place via cronyism.

I further rationalise that the only reason the Imperial forcs consisted of humans was because aliens looked stupid in the 80s (being made largely of oversised rubber suits). However, if George intended to have it that wa all along, then my rationalisation is bunk.

I rationalize it by supposing that only humans could fit into that clone-armor. Sure, they could make multi-species armor, but then there's food requirements, sleep cycles and a bunch of other differences that would make it difficult for a rigid military system. Would cost more too. Humans seem to be the most common species, too, which makes them cheaper.

How do the first 3 movies go against the ideology of non humans as scum?
The Academy was for pilots and officers, IIRC. At some point the cloning cylinders got blown up, maybe with DSII, and the stormtroopers did eventually become recruits in the books.simple, the trade Federation, as well as the league of breakaway planets were all non-human.

The Senate was disbanded during SW:ANH and if you watch, the senate was made up of mostly non-humans. (Granted it did not state if the Moffs were instilled to each world. but the fact that they still had a Senate runs counter to the Moffs being in true power during SW:ANH.) and it was the Senate that created the Empire...

Yeah, I dunno. I prefer a tyrannical regime not based upon special superiority. It makes them much more appealing. Also, I rationalise to myself that the only reason the books indicated that the empire was racist/specieist was because in the movies the Imperial forces consisted only of humans. I further rationalise that the only reason the Imperial forcs consisted of humans was because aliens looked stupid in the 80s (being made largely of oversised rubber suits). However, if George intended to have it that wa all along, then my rationalisation is bunk. I think he would have included them if he had the tech he does now, especially seeing as the empire was forged from the galactic republic consensually.and considering that Akbar's bio places him as a slave to Grand Moff Tarkin with his people also enslaved by the Empire (including the Wookies to I believe...)

and also, the armor and uniforms of the Empire pretty much made it for humans or Humanlike lifeforms.

and as you said, considering that the Empire was voted into being... it blows the racial discrimination that was cannon for alot of stuff after RotJ into garbage.

simple, the trade Federation, as well as the league of breakaway planets were all non-human.

The Senate was disbanded during SW:ANH and if you watch, the senate was made up of mostly non-humans. (Granted it did not state if the Moffs were instilled to each world. but the fact that they still had a Senate runs counter to the Moffs being in true power during SW:ANH.) and it was the Senate that created the Empire...


I presume that Darth Sidious was able to hide or at least try to put behind him his anti-alien tendencies until he had full power as it would obviously alienate (pun not intended :p) possible supporters. After all, he was happy enough to seem like a good ruler who was buddy-buddy with Jedi for a long period of time.

Right, but all of the clone officers and pilots still war the PCB outfit. Plus I think it was established that the clones were better than droids, but not as good as normal humans in their abilities. Jacks of all trades, but masters of none, if you will. I can see every reason why the empire would recruit all of the ace pilots of the colonies to boost their capabilites, and form 'special ops' units (not unlike USA with the GIs, then all of the endless 'special forces'). The officers.. well as we saw they had a high 'turnover' rate, especially when stationed under Vader :p. I think the officers may have been taken from existing armies of the various member states of the galactic republic. Possibly they may also be put into place via cronyism.
I dunno, I thought the Clone troopers in eps 2 and 3 shot a whole lot better than the troopers in 4, 5, and 6. and the earlier clones actually had brains. assisting Padme in 2, doing effective search patterns in 3...

guess that's what happens when you pick your clones before they're ripe. :D

I rationalize it by supposing that only humans could fit into that clone-armor. Sure, they could make multi-species armor, but then there's food requirements, sleep cycles and a bunch of other differences that would make it difficult for a rigid military system. Would cost more too. Humans seem to be the most common species, too, which makes them cheaper.

Ah yes, that too. Humans are supposed to be the most populous race in the galaxy, as I remember. At least the most influential. Apparently humans, in contrast to the other races, are also more prone to getting caught up in conflicts based upon silly things like ideaologies (I think I read this in the D20 tabletop roleplay game guide for Star Wars). This would also explain why most of the Rebels were also human (or from races which were directly subjugated).

I presume that Darth Sidious was able to hide or at least try to put behind him his anti-alien tendencies until he had full power as it would obviously alienate (pun not intended :p) possible supporters. After all, he was happy enough to seem like a good ruler who was buddy-buddy with Jedi for a long period of time.
and that is another problem I had with the first three episodes.

actually, if I could, I would've re-written the entire first three episodes in such a way that would've tied in better with the latter(earlier) episodes...

I dunno, I thought the Clone troopers in eps 2 and 3 shot a whole lot better than the troopers in 4, 5, and 6. and the earlier clones actually had brains. assisting Padme in 2, doing effective search patterns in 3...

guess that's what happens when you pick your clones before they're ripe. :D

You win a taco. *Gives taco*
This is another reason I am inclined towards the the final trio over the original. Despite the awesomeness and nostalgic quality of the original, the latest trio feature much much more appealing special effects, fight scenes, acting (bar Christensen that worthless little fuck), storyline, and did I mention fight scenes? God the fight scenes. When I go back and watch the bumbling stormtroopers and pathetic 10 second saber fights I nearly cry. Vader saves it.